Forget best game ever, is BOTW even a top 5 Zelda game?

It's the second worst Zelda. Worst being WW.

There's a lot of love for LA in here. But will LA HD cause it to become Zelda Cycle'd and suddenly the worst game in the series?

Attached: 8FEBCE0C-F5C5-46CF-9772-9659CAB4EF37.gif (500x207, 3.06M)

> Yea Forums contrarians still pushing this meme

No matter how interesting the worldbuilding is, MM's dungeons are dogshit, which automatically takes it out the running for best loz game.

This isn't even good bait. SS is easily the worst.

> Shit Dungeons
> Lacklustre Music
> Ugly Graphics
> Bland Overworld
> Shit Bosses
> Great Atmosphere
> Great World Building
> Great Storytelling
> Great Characters
Majora's Mask is basically a rich man's Twilight Princess

I dunno, PH had even less going for it.

>Hating the only 3D games with a sense of adventure

Based

PH is playable. SS is not

When you play it on a emulator, OOT has a great sense of advanture. But most people overlook the minor details that lead to it being such a masterpiece, like the Camera angles for example

Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Wind Waker
Minish Cap
Toss up between BotW or Twilight Princess
So, MAYBE top 5

I only played this and Minish Cap, I enjoyed both but I preferred the exploration in BoTW
You see thatmountain over there, well you can actually walk up to it and climb it

So all the NDS titles are ranked at the bottom ?

If you're a faggot they are

It's my third favourite behind OoT and MM

Definitely top 5.
OOT, MM, WW and LTTP top it

I'm gonna need you to use arguments when making a claim this brave.

It's atleast Top 5 yeah.

There's literally nothing wrong with ST besides the overworld, which, even then, gets maybe the single best song in the franchise to go with it

Yes. It's better than WW, TP, SS, the DS games, the game boy games, and LoZ and AoL. The only ones better are OoT, MM, LA, and ALttP. I'd rate it similarly to ALBW. High tier, not top.

Cold hard facts Yea Forums can't accept: Even with its objective issues such as a lack of dungeon diversity and less quest/npcs than last games, its still the best Zelda to date as it returns to the core of what Zelda is about, a grand adventure. Only zoomers think the gadget-puzzle dungeon-gadget-repeat is what is core to the Zelda series. It got out of hand by Twilight with the amount, and by Skyward is was completely stale.

Attached: 1561051837312.jpg (1024x966, 78K)

Barely. I'd consider it the 5th best behind the other 3D ones except SS

I haven't played the 2D Zelda's, as I find them to be incredibly frustrating, but my list is as follows:
OoT=MM=BoTW=TP=WW>>>>>>>>SS
The only reason Skyward Sword is so low is because i hated the motion controls. If they would do a rerelease with a more traditional control scheme, it would be equal. I don't think any Zelda game is bad, its just each focuses on a different thing/audience. Ocarina was the experimental first try at 3D Zelda, Majora was an . . .experience, not an expansion or evolution of Ocarina, just its own thing. Wind Waker was the first try at a vast, open world, aimed at kids. Twilight focused on a linear, story filled adventure, kinda like an expanded upon Ocarina. BoTW is spiritual reimagining of the freedom and wonder of Zelda 1, and in its own right is the next big step for Zelda after the transition to 3D.

Sure

>OoT=MM=BoTW=TP=WW>>>>>>>>SS
Based

Attached: download.png (1064x560, 379K)

LoZ: 8/10
AoL: 8/10
ALttP: 10/10
OoT: 10/10
MM: 9.5/10
LA: 9/10
OoS: 8/10
OoA: 7.5/10
WW: 8/10
MC: 7/10
PH: 5/10
TP: 7.5/10
SS: 6/10
ST: 6/10
ALBW: 8.5/10
BotW: 8.5/10

Yeah, close.

Attached: my-image (2).png (1216x467, 355K)

I don't necessarily believe it's the best Zelda but they absolutely needed a new formula, and the formula in BotW worked well.

Without the d-pad movement mod, yeah. Touch screen controls fucking suck. That mod at least makes them playable

Literally every day

Attached: 1565310451266m.jpg (702x1024, 67K)

fuck no. it's in the bottom 3 with phantom hourglass and skyward shit. (the cd-i games obviously don't count.)

>Only zoomers think the gadget-puzzle dungeon-gadget-repeat is what is core to the Zelda series.
zelda has always been about dungeon crawling, zoom zoom. that's what the original concept art emphasized. hell, zelda 1 was originally going to be a first-person dungeon-crawler with a selection screen, that's how important the dungeons were.

Attached: zelda1beta.jpg (2048x1445, 512K)

Is bloodstained fixed on the switch yet?

Well best is subjective, and if you're more into the gadget-dungeon loop than you'd certainly absolute fucking hate Breath. Personally I think it did more than enough new amazing shit that I don't miss at all having to collect a faggy hammer to use on a single boss fight. Excited to see what they do with Breath 2, given that Mask was miles better than Time in every way.

Faggot.

Attached: 1564607331091.jpg (953x684, 197K)

>Basing what Zelda is on pre release concepts rather than what was released
Cute.

>is BOTW even a top 5 Zelda game?
Link's Awakening>NES>Majora's Mask>A Link to the Past>Breath of the Wild

fuck off. thats fake news

techcrunch.com/2014/02/23/someone-is-remaking-classic-zelda-in-first-person-3d-in-virtual-reality/

Twilight Princess has to be in the top 3.

Attached: midna.webm (1370x600, 3M)

No. Fuck off pedo

Twilight is the worst Zelda. Drag 2edgy fedora crap, embarresing given it was made by the same team who did the 2edgy done right with Majora.
>B-But Skyward Sword!
Kino Zelda and Link relationship and some of the dungeons in that make it alone better than Twilight.

It was broken? Switch games run like shit its part of the experience.

>Kino Zelda and Link relationship
But that game wrecked their relationship

It's a top 2 Zelda game in fact.

>BotW
>actual Zelda game

>Has more in line with the original game than any other Zelda before it
>Not a Zelda game
Zoom zoom

>has more in line with a game which started the IP that would see serious development and improvement on in sequential games
>BotW throws it all away but keeps Zelda, Ganondorf and Master Sword cause otherwise there'd be nothing left to justify using the Zelda IP for marketing
>this is somehow OK
Has Yea Forums really gone to the dogs?

Why can't people just learn to accept people have different taste in Zelda games and there is no true best Zelda game?

BOTW made me quit being a Zelda fan. The characters were alright, but the setting and characters left a lot to be desired.

If I was the director for this game, I would make locations more compact and memorable, bring back dungeons in the style of Ocarina of time, and maybe a few tweaks and thats about it.

Attached: 1563201959820.jpg (1280x720, 128K)

Because people still can't let go of their grudge against Wind Waker for some reason

setting and gameplay

>BOTW made me quit being a Zelda fan
>quitting after one game

Man, I'm surprised you didn't quit after WW, TP, SS, PH, or ST given they are worse games.

I got lukewarm at Skyward Sword, which I didnt mind as it still had some qualities. I ignored the WW style games on the gameboy and Botw just made me hate Nintendo outright. It seems they had the perfect formula, but screwed it over because Aonuma is getting old and sucks ass at Zelda game.

Don't forget MM. Why the fuck do people always forget MM? I know it was mediocre but it's not that forgettable

The last great Zelda game was OoT. Everything after has been divisive for a reason, they're very mixed bags and have lots of flaws.

Anyone who ranks WW over BotW is a legitimate retard.

But WW actually has a soul and charm to it.

Except it has more content than any of those games you listed barring maybe MM.

>Ignoring the exploration
>Ignoring the improvements to combat
>Ingoring the physics system that places directly into said combat
>Ignoring the mountain climbing
>Ignoring the weapon and armor shit
>Ignoring the cooking
>Ignoring basically everything in favor of MUH GADGETS NOT MUH ZELDA

what is it about this game that triggers the fuck out of Yea Forums. it was great just let it fucking go

Retard.

>Forget best game ever
No

>is BOTW even a top 5 Zelda game?
Yes

1. BotW
2. MM
3. LA
4. ALttP
5. LoZ

Attached: 1489283220128.png (614x677, 404K)

Console exclusive that won every ward imaginable

Because it won GotY. That combined with how autistic the Zelda fanbase is with constant infighting on which Zelda is the """"best"""""", and console war fags you get shit.

BOTW > WW > OOT > TP = MM = SS

That's because OOT is the closest thing to a perfect game. So what Nintendo did with other 3D Zelda's was took a few aspects & improved on them substantially at the cost of streamlining everything else.

>Because it won GotY.
GoW was literally forgotten before it even won GOTY.

Because BotW won every noteworthy GoTY award. It wasn't even competitive

>the closest thing to a perfect game.

Attached: Dark_Souls_Cover_Art.jpg (256x330, 55K)

>exploration

You explored and found another empty plateau with another korok seed!

>combat improvement
>dodge ability and get a free hit in slow motion!

>physics engine in combat
>implying the combat ever needed physics to fight easy fights

There was no fights in this game that required mastery of physics.

>weapon and armor
>oh your weapon broke in ten hits, better go find another one!

>cooking
Not a bad mechanic, but you ended up using only three recipes in the end.

Attached: 1545513981116.png (1280x720, 1.28M)

Pretty much this, I'm tired of getting high hopes for the next Zelda and having it end up being mediocre and lacking in one way or another. ALBW was the last one to actually impress me since it at least had competent and unique puzzles.

It's unquestionably top 4. Only 1, ALTTP, and Ocarina are even debatably better. I'd personally say it's top 3. Maybe even higher.

OOT's only flaw is the unskippable cutscenes, Dark Souls is literally unfinished garbage & aged horribly, the novelty wears off with Souls games after a month. Whereas there are still things that amaze me about OOT, like little details in the storytelling or gameplay that i never knew about before

Anybody who ranks OoT as top 5 or a 10/10 game is a complete brainlet.

The real patricians choice is Demon Souls. Way more interesting lore and setting.

Yes

LttP > BotW > LA > SS > TP

It's not even top 10.

They're not wrong, you're just being contrarian or you're underage.

Anyone know a good place to find Zelda fanart?

Attached: 1562113764861.png (919x533, 563K)

>There was no fights in this game that required mastery of physics
>You didn't need to use the physics to win so it didn't count
Cringe.

Attached: Ocarina of Time - Nabooru.jpg (947x1185, 1.05M)

It objectively is a 10/10, you are just a contrarian or an underaged zoomer

>Yea Forums is STILL this butthurt over BotW
Jesus fucking christ.

lore - who cares
setting - interconnected levels > hub/portals

dark souls wins sry

Attached: 028.gif (720x404, 1.88M)

That's just the power of snoy cope

This image is incredibly relevant ITT

It's almost like everyone loves Zelda & we are disappointed at how much wasted potential BOTW had

pixiv and twitter is where I get most of mine these days

Attached: Do you always play your own dungeon music.jpg (1200x600, 343K)

>i-it was a disapointment
Fuck off retard.

>20fps with constant dips into slide show territory
>barren over world
>sloppy camera and targeting system
yeah, objectively 10 outta 10 alright.

No, you're just contrarians. I come here because I prefer it to the normie hivemind but this is purely contrarianism for the sake of it

Attached: 1542864714906.jpg (368x368, 84K)

Right away i can tell you didn't even play it & just watched EgoRaptor's lets play of it.

>pixiv

I should bite the bullet and create an account I suppose. Is there a fair amount of art based on the 2D games as well? I love most of the games in the franchise equally but fans tend to prefer the 3D stuff.

Attached: New Hyrule.jpg (1024x791, 226K)

No Zelda game can hold the top spot because all of them have flaws that other Zelda games perfected. We've yet to experience the perfect Zelda game. This by no means states that just because a game has one bad aspect, that means the entire game is bad.

The best Zelda so far was BotW, even though its weapon system and dungeons left a lot to be desired. Where as the best Zelda for dungeons was easily Twilight Princess.

Hopefully Nintendo can work it out and combine all the best aspects of each game and combine them into one.

3D lends itself to fanart but you'll find plenty of stuff under the general zelda tag and game specific tags

Attached: 57082089_p0.jpg (900x675, 268K)

>Those Nudge and Senza outfits

Nice

Attached: The Legend of Zelda 30 Years.jpg (1400x933, 617K)

I love Linebeck, but fuck, I hate how PH wasted Tetra's crew.

Attached: 69712399_p37.jpg (1372x698, 852K)

OOT literally has no game design flaws, contrarians seethe about it because they never played it & judge it solely based on a 10 minute gameplay video on Youtube. And seeing as the average age of Yea Forums is 22, i know for a fact that most of them didn't play it on the N64. And none of the "Graphical issues" exist when playing on a emulator.

TOP TIER
>Majora's Mask
>A Link to the Past
>OOT Master Quest
HIGH TIER
>Ocarina of Time
>Link's Awakening
GOOD TIER
>Wind Waker and sequels
>Twilight Princess
>Minish Cap
OKAY TIER
>Skyward Sword
>Four Swords
>The Legend of Zelda
>Zelda 2
IS THIS GAME EVEN FINISHED TIER
>Breath of the Wild

BOTW is a soulless nostalgia fest filled with rinse and repeat dungeons and the penultimate generic shit buried under we've already seen in other Zelda games
It succeeds at being Zelda, but nothing past it, bringing nothing new or exciting to the table past shield surfing and sometimes nice views
I liked this game more as a sightseeing experience than I did a combat puzzle adventure, which honestly says alot about how they've missed what Zelda is supposed to be
>YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE (BTW PLEASE GO THIS SPECIFIC DIRECTION OR YOU'LL GET FUCKED)
The combat is ass and literally every boss in the game copy/pastes other boss designs from previous titles
All of the puzzles are either incredibly easy or incredibly dull to figure out

My parents bought me it for Christmas when it came out, I was in grade 5. You can hide behind your coping mechanisms all you want but I played all the Zelda games as they came out and I can definitely say there's no reason to play OoT when they've made far better sequels to it. It's still appreciable as a tech demo from 1998, I guess.

>you will never play BotW for the 1st time again

Attached: hyrule.jpg (5139x2889, 2.8M)

Not him, but the fact that OoTplebs immediately have to resort to calling people zoomers as a defense says a lot more about you nostalgia-riddled faggots than anything else. Industry veterans, critics and the general population all agree that OoT has been usurped in almost every conceivable way by BotW, so it's the exact opposite of contrarianism.

>IS THIS GAME EVEN FINISHED TIER
>Breath of the Wild
Retarded list 0/10 apply yourself
>inb4 pretending to be retarded

OoT has a lot of design flaws.

I still need to play the DS games and other hand helds. I finally got all the shrines in BotW and plan to finish it 100% on normal and Master Mode.

Attached: Adventure of Link.png (900x987, 617K)

BotW has nothing to do with Zelda. Take away the superficial elements, and nobody would ever think, "Hey, this is like Zelda," like you might with Okami. Good or bad, there's no point comparing it to the other games, because it is something entirely different in design direction.

Also, I liked the Zelda formula, and people stating that it needed to be 'shaken up' are full of shit.

> Industry veterans, critics and the general population all agree that OoT has been usurped in almost every conceivable way by BotW
Nice bait

Attached: Screenshot_2019-08-24 Imgur.png (633x277, 108K)

>Majora's Mask at the top
>treating Master Quest as a separate entity and rating it higher
Patri-
>Zelda 2 at okay

This especially sucks because no game drops off harder on a second run than BotW. It's atmosphere is built on a sense of the unknown

I'd almost recommend going straight to ST over PH. ST does a better job following up on WW's ending and is a better game overall

Attached: 60186039eba9f37c4a1be060639a65f0.png (922x899, 873K)

Honestly, my major gripe with OOT was how empty and tedious Hyrule field became as time went on, and the Ganon fight was way too easy. It was a real let down.

>BotW has nothing to do with Zelda
Dumbest thing posted ITT yet
>Also, I liked the Zelda formula
A lot of people do, nobody is taking it away, BotW just did something differently. Why does this cause such autistic rage?

>All of the puzzles are either incredibly easy or incredibly dull to figure out
Imagine being such a self-awareness lacking retard that you defend other Zelda games over BotW in terms of puzzle content, as if the countless mindless block-pushing and eye-shooting puzzles of the previous titles are anything to celebrate. Zelda didn't get worse, you just became old and jaded.

> Seething this badly
Holy fuck, it's been 20 years. Let it go

Yeah, sure.

1. WW
2. OoT
3. Zelda 2
4. Oracles
5. BotW

i dunno
look at this tho

Attached: finley3.png (989x1085, 929K)

for me, yes. It's leagues above TP at least.

OOC has so many atmospheric, unique dungeons with unique soundtracks and enemies
BOTW has 4 atmospherically identical dungeons and the generic Hyrule Castle
Besides that there are nice places to visit but the reasons for visitng them aren't very good when it's about junping into 1/999 atmospherically identical puzzle holes with boring content

Did you even look at the image you posted, you blithering retard? OoT is far older and has over twice the number of reviews, but nearly all of BotW's reviews agree it's a superior game.

Can't wait to see how mad this makes some autist

>generic Hyrule Castle
> but the reasons for visitng them aren't very good

Attached: 1550896750040.jpg (1024x560, 62K)

It's not even a Zelda game

>Take away the superficial elements
It's actually the superficial elements that you people cling to way too hard when you say it's not a Zelda game.

If your not first you're last

>It's atmosphere is built on a sense of the unknown
Which is exactly what a Zelda game should be.

Yes, despite the fact that the "new zelda bad" jerk took it's sweet time to get here it's still a great game.

>reading comprehrension
The generic Hyrule Castle obviously isn't one of the optional nice places to visit for sightseeing
You BOTW fags are all the same, defending this lazy shit game with these meme arguments

Get the fuck out of here you moron

Attached: Pet-cool-sunglasses-Fashion-Style-Dog-Glasses-Design-Pet-Eye-Wear-Puppy-Eye-Protection-Pet-Grooming. (900x900, 276K)

Good thing everyone agrees BotW is first then.

>the first time you play OoT
>the first time you play MM
>the first time you play WW
>the first time you play TP
>the first time you play SS
>the first time you play BotW
No replay ever beats it

>we

Attached: 1560020398714.gif (360x360, 26K)

Not saying it isn't, but it's an experience that can't be replayed. OoT's dungeons and WW's artstyle never get old, but with BotW the experience has lost something that can never be replicated and that makes it hard judge in a way no other Nintendo game has ever been for me

>>the first time you play WW
Kind of sucked
It took me multiple runs to appreciate WW

Attached: 74199738_p27.jpg (709x808, 279K)

>The generic Hyrule Castle
>Hyrule Castle
>generic

Attached: 01.gif (195x229, 1.12M)

>we

Kek, get over yourself. Your favorite Zelda game isn't the best.

Wanna know how I know you've never played a 2D Zelda or Master Quest?

>Dumbest thing posted ITT yet
OK.
>A lot of people do, nobody is taking it away, BotW just did something differently. Why does this cause such autistic rage?
Completely different, and the legions of retards, yourself included, polishing its dick has more or less guaranteed that Zelda is staying in this direction.

You're a special kind of retarded.

Yes

1. Legend of Zelda
2. A Link to the Past
3. Adventure of Link
4. Link's Awakening
5. Breath of the Wild
6. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask
8. whatever

Eh, you're not wrong but it's more about me no longer being the target audience
I'll give you that

>OK
Just letting you know.
>legions of retards, yourself included, polishing its dick has more or less guaranteed that Zelda is staying in this direction
Oh it was point related all along

Attached: b8.jpg (360x361, 13K)

>Yea Forums is one person and it agrees with me
Fuck off, faggot.

Clearly not

Attached: Screenshot_2019-08-24 Top 100 Video Games of All Time - IGN com.png (846x562, 388K)

>6. Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask
Those are two games

>OOT's only flaw is the unskippable cutscenes
OOT's biggest flaw is lack of danger and challenge.

Wanna know how I know you're retarded? 2D Zelda games delegated most of their overworld exploration to combat while the player discovered new screens, which is exactly what BotW does. It's perhaps closer to the spirit of a 2D title than any of the 3D games.

Not an argument. The only thing you OoTfags ever argue in favor of are setpieces and story-oriented bullshit.

>Zelda I > ALTTP > Zelda 2 > LA > ALBW
But why?

>Narratively it's still one of the best stories ever told in a Zelda game
It's well presented but I don't see much special in the narrative itself

>OOT's biggest flaw is lack of danger and challenge.
All you youngfags dont know how it felt being in your room during December with the snow outside and barely any light as you went through the atmospheric spooky locales of OOT.

Attached: 1562311482674.jpg (550x599, 82K)

personal and completely unironic top 5
LTTP
BOTW
Zelda 1
Zelda 2
tie between WW and TP

I haven't disliked any of them so far. Zelda is probably overall my favorite game franchise. I don't tend to have the same opinions as most on here but there isn't one of them I don't think isn't worth playing/owning.

Attached: A Link to the Past - Commercial.jpg (1280x1200, 397K)

>I don't see much special in the narrative itself
You won't like his reasoning
Zelda/Sheik being muh strong women, not captured right away, muh feminism

>overworld exploration
>It's perhaps closer to the spirit of a 2D title than any of the 3D games.
You've only proven yourself how retarded you are since that has nothing to do with your previous post.
Almost every 2D Zelda has coherent and creative puzzles where BotW is just use X rune at Y.

OoTfags' first line of defense being "you had to be there to appreciate it" will never not be amusing. You're actively admitting it's outdated and you don't even realize it.

Attached: 1520398098847.png (229x252, 26K)

>where BotW is just use X rune at Y

>Dark Souls is literally unfinished garbage & aged horribly, the novelty wears off with Souls games after a month.
Only if you have warped millennial taste because you played OoT when you were 9 and judged all other games based on that one magical experience with the perfect game.
Dark Souls is fun to go back play because there's actual mastery involved. Blowing through the game when you know it well using a new build is fantastic. And if you're looking for "little details in gameplay" Dark Souls undeniably has that. There was incredible attention to detail balancing the weapon system, that I'd never have noticed if I hadn't really played the game hard. For example, a weapon I disregarded as basically useless on my first playthrough (The Whip) turns out to have a relevant niche for certain builds when you account for its weight, reach, and damage type. Nearly every weapon in the game has a niche, and there are a hundred different weapons. The average braindead dumbass like you who likes Ocarina for its "detailed storytelling" has no business commenting on Souls gameplay.

i thought MM had the best dungeons right next to OoT though

>Almost every 2D Zelda has coherent and creative puzzles
Wanna know how I know you never played 2D Zelda games?

>OoTfags' first line of defense being "you had to be there to appreciate it"
>little fags will never know what it was like to play a game when it first came out
>stuck with "experiences" like bore of the wild, fortnite, and other shitty games that are soulless

Attached: 1557189100671.jpg (1500x1517, 320K)

You failed to notice there was no "7." in the list. That was deliberate.

Pick an order faggot

I played it when it first came out and I think BotW is better. The point is that you're literally relying entirely on your nostalgia for an argument.

It's the little details of the story that people always overlook, like Link crying when he runs away from Saria at the beginning of the game. Most people didn't notice that due to the graphics or the fact that Link essentially loses his entire childhood simply to save the world, only to be tricked into giving Ganondorf the triforce. The only father figure he had dies at the beginning of the game, he was cast out of his home due to not being a Kokiri, when he returns in the future nobody recognizes him & feels regret for how they treated him. Nobody ever remembers anything Link did in OOT, all of the things he did were ultimately forgotten because of Time Travel, he never found Navi either & nobody knows if he ended up finding his way to Hyrule after Termina.

>LttP
>LA
>OoS
>OoA
>ALBW
Yes, that's what I said. You don't even have to think about it after a bit because all the shrines are reused assets.

>I played it when it first came out and I think BotW is better.
No you didnt

>bore of the wild
Not even trying

>Nobody ever remembers anything Link did in OOT, all of the things he did were ultimately forgotten because of Time Travel, he never found Navi either & nobody knows if he ended up finding his way to Hyrule after Termina.
That's just the ending being fucking retarded. It doesn't help the game

Ocarina of Time was better.

Ya he's full of shit. Even the moon dungeons are great

best part is that the game doesnt have to tell you all those feelings. you feel it yourself. the kokiri visit as an adult really hit it on the head

>dont you guys remember me?
>"You look familiar, mister."

And then it never gets a conclusion. One of the unique ways video games tell a story.

>You don't even have to think about it
Jesus christ BotW haters don't even try anymore.

>It's well presented but I don't see much special in the narrative itself
Because you're a brainlet.

1- Majoras Mask
2- Ocarina of Time
3- A Link to the Past
4- Wind Waker
5- Twilight Princess

I’m afraid it’s not

Yes I did. It was my favorite Zelda at the time, but that was before it was surpassed by a better game.

It was literally my first video game I owned and I still think botw is better

>Zelda/Sheik being muh strong women, not captured right away, muh feminism
But she's captured the moment she takes off the disguise

Then educate me

OOT is still GOAT and i first played it in 2012

WW is hurt by the lack of sense of unknown. The big "plot twist" of hyrule below the ocean is spoiled by the unskippable cutscene you're forced to watch every new game, the game never stops treating the player like a baby, and it just never rises above being little more than a watered down rehash of OoT

None of those games have creative puzzles, and OoA doesn't even focus on puzzles.

>Most IPs lose their identity frequently
>Legend of Zelda consistently reinvents/redesigns itself while always staying true

Based Japs

Attached: 1562049559159.png (670x850, 588K)

No, WW is just hurt but the way the Triforce Quest is handled, but after doing it the first time, the Triforce Quest is more manageable on replays. Nowadays I like it as much as OoT

Agreed, it's the most bittersweet Zelda game we've had. Unlike Link's Awakening which instead of being bittersweet, was just downright depressing. OOT was a perfect mix of happy & sad moments, it's a coming of age story without a happy ending. Twilight Princess should have been made directly after Majora's Mask in 2003, it would have been more well recieved & it would have made perfect sense to market it the end of the Hero of Time trilogy since that's what everyone wanted. And then Wind Waker could have been more fleshed out with content and given a longer development cycle, which would have lead to a far more positive reception at launch

>strawman
Jesus christ BotW defendersd don't even try anymore.

Oops, meant OoS.

7/10, you actually had me going for a while.

True, but the trade-off is autists arguing endlessly over which approach was better for the series. Gets pretty fucking old after a while.

not for me

Nice non rebuttal. 4/10.

You have nothing for me to give a rebuttal to. You just said no they don't, but I'll give you some examples anyway.
>tracks in Turtle Rock
>pillars in the tower dungeon
>changing seasons to progress in game
>the entirety of Jabu Jabu's belly
>wall merging in literally every dungeon

Imagine finding your image in women's bedrooms all across the sea. What a chad.

Attached: The Legendary Hero.jpg (800x450, 50K)

Zelda debates are so fucking boring and repetitive. Just like what you like and move the fuck on.

This board is forever destined to repeat itself

Attached: 1555289467685.png (642x420, 32K)

The funny thing is even though it is bottom 5 for LoZ games, BotW2 can be top 5. It needs maybe 3x as many unique enemies. At least 4 well done dungeons, although 8 is preferred. A few more sub weapons. If they are gonna keep durability, then at least the master sword, or equivalent, needs to be void of that shit. Finally, remove perfect dodge. None of that is hard to put into a sequel since they can reuse assets, thus already having half a game. Most, if not all of that, was heavily criticized too so Nintendo SHOULD know what to fix. There are other things they can fix like story, but those things aren't needed nearly as badly.

>Based Nintendo Chads remade Link's Awakening before Skyward Sword
Get fucked, zoomies.

Attached: 098098.jpg (236x237, 10K)

>remade into an abomination
Sorry but this isn't a win for us old folk...

This guy got the life that a hero is supposed to get. Fuck what they did to OoT Link

Attached: somewhere_by_the_sea_by_keysamoguri-d5bencg.png (899x654, 1M)

Link's Awakening remake looks neat but Skyward Sword would have definitely benefited more a remake or port removing some of the commonly complained about issues.

I don't think OoT Link had an unhappy life after MM. He probably just realized he should have prepared Hyrule better against Ganon's butthurt in the future.

>Having this level of shit taste
Cringe

>Most, if not all of that, was heavily criticized too so Nintendo SHOULD know what to fix.
I thought BotW just got its dick sucked off this site and since when does Nintendo listen to the consumer base about anything beyond their cash?

>Kass's riddles
>shrines that employ multiple steps and solutions (e.g. Mah Eliya)
>finding outfits or preparing meals to progress different climates
>divine beasts that make use of manipulating the entire dungeon to progress

For every occasional creative puzzle the past games had relative to the mountains of boring push block "puzzles", BotW has two.

>wall merging in literally every dungeon
How the fuck is this creative when you know exactly what to do at all times because it's the central gimmick?

>5 Link to the past
This faggot

Attached: wowbuzz.jpg (282x277, 21K)

LA didn't need a remake. SS needs an entire reboot from the ground up.

>I don't think OoT Link had an unhappy life after MM. He probably just realized he should have prepared Hyrule better against Ganon's butthurt in the future.
But he was forgotten by the masses at best. WW Link got his own kingdom with an entire royal guard that revered him

Attached: comic.jpg (564x5696, 1.01M)

>IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAN ME! NO NO NO! YOU'RE LYING!
Pathetic.

people with taste are tired of formulaic empty open-world sandbox "games," and especially tired of the fawning praise they get.
"games" like botw and rdr2 are to this generation what call of duty was to last generation.

They got so assmad over the response to SS that they made skyrim with gorons.

That is a plus, but I feel like most Links are the kind of person to be happy regardless of that. They probably don't give more than two seconds of thought to what others think about them. Just stopping evil and impregnating princesses

BotW emphasizes that its Link feels burdened by the expectations of others

>things that occurred only in anons imagination

At least he picked the right fish

Attached: 1551258788258.jpg (800x541, 89K)

How is the dead one the right one?

zelda traded in its identity for the same ubishit formula rehash that the rest of modern aaa gaming is doing.

Attached: ubisoftbotw2.png (1000x679, 215K)

>Kass's riddles
are extremely easy to decipher, especially when the environment itself isn't subtle in most cases.
>shrines that employ multiple steps and solutions (e.g. Mah Eliya)
Those "multiple solutions" are just exploiting the physics in the same few ways most of the time.
>finding outfits or preparing meals to progress different climates
Outfits are either given to you directly or explained by the first person you see in a new environment if it's required to progress. Meals are also explained by those same people as requiring one specific ingredient you find randomly.
>divine beasts that make use of manipulating the entire dungeon to progress
It's just trial and error trying to open up new paths. Trying every possibility when you're stuck does not make a good puzzle.
>relative to the mountains of boring push block "puzzles"
Puzzles were never that simple outside beginner dungeons and the 3D games.
>BotW has two.
Quantity =/= quality

>how dare people discuss video games on Yea Forums

GoW won GOTY in a year where its only real competition was RDR2, Spider-Man, and MH:W.
BotW won GOTY in a year with Persona 5, Sonic Mania, Yakuza 0, Nier: Automata, Super Mario Odyssey, Resident Evil 7, and Cuphead.
2017 was massive in terms of critically successful games.

That's why I said cash, SS didn't sell very well and that's all they saw. They got rid of all its positive aspects in BotW.

yes definitely I'd go as far as to say it's top 3 bare minimum or you're just a delusional boomer

Is it just even possible to unite the fanbase under a common consensus at this point? OoT was the last time it happened.

>one of the non-nintendo games he played
>doesn't actually have the ubisoft formula in BotW

Attached: Zelda.gif (636x358, 3.38M)

No, BotW gets plenty of criticism. If they think these false reviews actually represent a majority of players then I wouldn't trust they'd have the intelligence to know how to turn on a computer, let alone actually program a game. Listening to their consumers is the bigger problem though. Some people in Nintendo are completely capable of this and it is to be expected from them, but I don't know if this applies to the crew making Zelda. I think they are listening, but only time will tell...

no, top 5 in no particular order are
>Ocarina
>ALTTP
>Majora
>LA
>Zelda 1

Attached: OoT linearity map.png (1169x4226, 522K)

>They got rid of all its positive aspects
Like scrying, upgrading gear and collecting stuff in the wilderness to make stuff
Oh wait. That didn't happen.

>he likes an art style worse than Wind Wanker's
Damn, does it kill you on the inside being a nintendo fanboy? I mean, no one in their right mind could stomach that art style so you have to be the highest tier of fanboy to say you like it with a straight face.

who enjoyed those parts of SS

>Dark Souls is literally unfinished garbage & aged horribly, the novelty wears off with Souls games after a month

Attached: 1385779106658.png (191x226, 71K)

He'll grow out of it

SPOILER RETAWRDS

ALL ZELDA GAMES ARE SHIT HE IS A SHIT CHARACTER

Wrong

Attached: breathofthewild.jpg (1920x1080, 324K)

Ya know, I figured out why Zelda nosedived into the terrible puzzle formula once Aonuma got involved with the franchise. He's notoriously bad at games-- losing to octoroks, not knowing what Mario was when he got a job at Nintendo, having his girlfriend walk him through Dragon Quest...
See, a game is just that: a game. There's a winner, and thus by extension a way to lose too. You strive to win and beat the odds, and overcome a challenge.

Puzzles, conversely, aren't games. You can't "lose" a puzzle. It just takes you longer to finish one if you're not good at it. It might be appear difficult on a surface level, but then you solve it and any challenge is behind you. With no way to lose, you can only win.

Attached: 102-puzzle-news-pic-5.jpg (1920x1080, 221K)

>worse than Wind Wanker's
Well, all Zelda styles are worse than WW's

I doubt he'll be any more expressive in the sequel

inmmf not wring

No idea I loved phantom hourglass

>>finding outfits or preparing meals to progress different climates
This is not a puzzle.

>are extremely easy to decipher, especially when the environment itself isn't subtle in most cases.
No easier than past titles, or did you not play ALTTP or LoZ which were literally filled with simple tile puzzles?

>Those "multiple solutions" are just exploiting the physics in the same few ways most of the time.
Not true. A lot of the puzzles were intentionally designed to accommodate alternate physics solutions, which couldn't be more obvious with shrines like Mah Eliya, or the placement of electric switches in some of the other ones. You either don't remember playing them or simply didn't do them.

>Outfits are either given to you directly or explained by the first person you see in a new environment if it's required to progress. Meals are also explained by those same people as requiring one specific ingredient you find randomly.
They're often told to you in hints, which is also intentional you dolt. It would just be aimless wandering otherwise, especially for the outfits. Also you won't even see these hints if you don't bother exploring and talking to the NPCs, so they're all navigational cues.

>It's just trial and error trying to open up new paths. Trying every possibility when you're stuck does not make a good puzzle.
You can literally solve any Zelda puzzle by "trying every possibility" so that's not even an argument. It being trial and error for you because you're too retarded to solve them by thinking laterally really just proves my point that they were more creative and challenging than you're letting on.

>Puzzles were never that simple outside beginner dungeons and the 3D games.
Tons of them were. LA's in particular were all piss easy outside of the one dungeon that actually makes use of macro dungeon manipulation like the divine beasts.

>Quantity =/= quality
BotW has plenty of both.

>he prefers toon link
Oh god, I'm sorry for you user... You don't even have a clue how fucked up you are...

Wind Waker's style is the worst the franchise ever had though.

He'll be the first Link to say "nigga".

Sounds like a good night to post Link's Logbook.

Attached: 1321211134646.jpg (123x132, 11K)

It's certainly no less of a puzzle than "changing seasons" or "merging walls", so don't start moving goalposts now.

Super faggot.
Dropping ice Chu chu for the enemy to hit freezing them in place shooting them in with flame arrow which causes an updraft paragliding up and then raining down 6 headshots is the shit
Git fucking gud

Well yes, I prefer actual passion and ambition put into an artstyle. Don't know why you haven't realized how shitty spaceworld looks almost 20 years later

I'm not even the guy you were arguing with, he literally already responded. This shit is not a puzzle. The food is intuitive. Finding fucking clothing is not a puzzle.

>Yea Forums is 1 person
Fuck off nigger

Or I can spam attack, dodge into matrix mode, and defeat them ten times easier

Again, I brought it up because it's equivalent to some of the stuff he listed. Merging with walls in ALBW is even more intuitive than the cooking system.

I had a both a n64 and GameCube and that LOZ Multi game disc that had OOT, Majoras mask and Wind Waker
That thing was the shit.

>passion and ambition
Isn't it just a shallow rip off of old anime from the 60s he grew up watching?

Yes, it was something he wanted to make after MM was just recycled OoT assets. It also was a very intelligent choice for the time and tech of the Gamecube. Zelda fans being too stupid to set aside their personal fanfiction won't stop me from enjoying it.

Why hasn't Link been black yet?

>OoT is overrated, it's aged like shit and looks terrible!!, can't skip cutscenes.
>MM not enough dungeons, only one of them is good, mos Sidequest aren't good, just an OoT expansion pack!
>WW unfinished!! Bad dungeons, boring sailing, Triforce hunt a Shiit, ocean empty!
>TP soulless! Watered down OoT, fuck padding, too easy, fuck Wolf!
>SS, fuck Fi! Fucking Handholding, fucking motion controls, revisiting areas, fucking with lore!
>BotW not Zelda enough, where muh dungeons, fuck you durability, muh boring

Why do the 2D games never go through all this autistic arguing and sperging?

Attached: image.jpg (620x349, 19K)

Because they're not different enough to warrant division

Second game.

Attached: 032.png (512x480, 5K)

Zelda 1 and 2 have their own fanbases and the other 2d games build off of each other and have very strong similarities.

Good list. BOTW is trash compared to the greats.

Because nobody on Yea Forums has played anything besides the 3D games.

Attached: 1557781474893.png (1200x900, 2.14M)

This is how we know you’re underaged
This is when 3D games were new
As in this shit was shocking and scary SM64 and LOZ OOT didn’t just write the book They are the book on 3D game design
Play some ps1 games that came out before SM64 the all played like misguided dogshit

not them but how is Hyrule Castle not generic? It's your bog standard medieval castle with all the basic trappings you'd expect from it in nearly every game it's in. The only time it ever really had an ounce of change was in WW when it was frozen in time and even then they didn't really do much with it

It's a great setpiece and a staple of the series but it's not like it does anything particularly unique or interesting aside from being the final dungeon in a few games, and even then it's mostly a backdrop for the actual dungeon layout

Attached: Hyrule_Castle_TP_Artwork.jpg (609x669, 418K)

>It's the second worst Zelda. Worst being Skyward Sword
FTFY. Wind Waker is an amazing game. Simple, but amazing.

>No easier than past titles, or did you not play ALTTP or LoZ which were literally filled with simple tile puzzles?
I didn't mention Zelda 1 and LttP was labyrinthian with many interconnected parts requiring influence to progress like switch walls and water levels. Weak red herring.
>A lot of the puzzles were intentionally designed to accommodate alternate physics solutions, which couldn't be more obvious with shrines like Mah Eliya
Give specific examples.
>or the placement of electric switches in some of the other ones
They were all extremely obvious, it doesn't take a genious to figure out where a piece of metal belongs through trial and error.
>They're often told to you in hints, which is also intentional you dolt. It would just be aimless wandering otherwise, especially for the outfits.
So you're admitting that the game gives you the answers outright with no thought.
>Also you won't even see these hints if you don't bother exploring and talking to the NPCs, so they're all navigational cues.
I don't call exiting the narrow valley to the desert and going around talking to people at the building straight ahead exploration.
>You can literally solve any Zelda puzzle by "trying every possibility" so that's not even an argument.
No, you can't. For example, in LA, the path to the final boss is impossible to get through because there are thousands of possible paths and it isn't reasonable to spend 3 hours guessing and hoping you got it right. You have to use knowledge acquired earlier in the game by paying attention to books in the library and then piece it together that it has to be about that specific path.
>Tons of them were. LA's in particular were all piss easy outside of the one dungeon that actually makes use of macro dungeon manipulation like the divine beasts.
Saying, yeah they were isn't an argument.
>BotW has plenty of both.
You're not doing a very good job of proving that by trying to dodge half my points.

>ranking Wind Waker above any other 3D Zelda

Attached: Congrats retardo.png (500x409, 180K)

Ask this question when BotW 2 is out and people can talk about BotW like normal people. Yea Forums defended SS, TP and the DS games to the death mind you. It's only after the next game is out that fans can take a step back and look at something properly.

Good post.

The man in that image has accomplished more than you have, user.

From a gameplay perspective, Hyrule Castle makes very interesting use of navigation and lateral thinking that's core to BotW's theme of exploration (provided you don't cheese it with Revali's Gale). It's perfectly unique in that sense.

>youngfags
I'm 40

TP IS DOGSHIT WIND WAKER WAS BETTER

No

Cute comeback.

T.retard

BotW isn't even a Zelda game. It's another one of those Ubisoft or Rockstar open world meme games.

Attached: Consider the OHOHOHO.jpg (1280x720, 136K)

Wasn't the user you were replying to, so it technically wasn't a comeback.

>Max efficiency only
>Reee reeeee
Stop sucking off that cow cheese fag

Twilight princess, Windwaker. Oracle of ages.
Well, i can think of 3, but not 5

Based. The trailer for BoTW was fucking epic. The most hyped I’d been in years, then I played it and seen what’s empty garbage it was. Letdown of the decade.

You still havent given a case where using the game's unique physics is required. All of the game combat can be beat with spam/ dodge. Botw is a child's game in combat.

BotW at the very least is better than SS and WW. I say it's also better than MM and TP, being on/near the same level as OoT.

It's BY FAR the best zelda game ever

And I grew up with ocarina and mjm. So all that nostalgia doesnt even top how amazing botw was

BOTW = GOAT

All other responses are wrong

Fixed

Attached: Untitled.png (1064x1404, 505K)

>Wind Waker
>S
stopped reading there

>Hyrule Castle's depiction in [Zelda game] is unique to the game it's in
that doesn't change it from being a generic medieval castle

>>Ignoring the exploration
>>Ignoring the improvements to combat
>>Ingoring the physics system that places directly into said combat
>>Ignoring the mountain climbing
>>Ignoring the weapon and armor shit
>>Ignoring the cooking
>>Ignoring basically everything in favor of MUH GADGETS NOT MUH ZELDA
Not that guy but really?
>exploration
What, another empty as shit open world? Or do you mean the shrines?
>combat
Flurry rush is more gamebreaking than SS's shield bash.
>physics
More like running up every wall you're supposed to climb
>climbing
See above
>weapons and armor
Between the shit durability system, the pointlessness of so many useless disposable weapons, no. Just no.
>cooking
Another game breaking mechanic because hearty healing items break combat worse than anything I've seen besides game genie.
>everything
What's there to like? Not even the soundtrack is memorable.

It's the Zelda game that makes me hapoiest when playing it. Sorry, faggot.

>I didn't like these things so they don't count as things

I didn’t say it was perfect, just better than most of the zoomer lists. I agree WW is above TP.

There is no best Zelda game you fucking autists.

>I didn't mention Zelda 1
You mentioned 2D games initially, so it counts.

>LttP was labyrinthian with many interconnected parts requiring influence to progress like switch walls and water levels.
Divine Beasts required influence to progress. They weren't labyrinthian, but neither were most of ALTTP's overworld puzzles which would usually amount to some random tile-pushing obstacle to get a heart piece in a cave. Not super creative.

>Give specific examples.
I gave you a specific example in the sentence you just quoted to say that. Quit dodging the point.

>So you're admitting that the game gives you the answers outright with no thought.
Puzzles involving overworld navigation provide hints to guide the player towards their next destination. ALTTP does the same thing almost constantly. You're conflating two different things.

>For example, in LA, the path to the final boss is impossible to get through because there are thousands of possible paths and it isn't reasonable to spend 3 hours guessing and hoping you got it right
That's maybe one counterexample out of the countless simpler puzzles that filled LA's dungeons. Oftentimes it's just a matter of finding the dungeon item and then using it on obvious gates or switches to open up new paths. It wasn't the puzzles themselves that made LA's dungeons challenging, but rather the lateral navigational elements (which can also be cheesed via trial and error).

>Saying, yeah they were isn't an argument.
They were. Using the hookshot to go over gaps in Catfish's Maw isn't creative.

>You're not doing a very good job of proving that by trying to dodge half my points.
I'm proving that by refuting your points. The game itself refutes your points. You're refuting your own points by leaning on the "trial and error" argument when that's generally a crutch you can use in almost every Zelda puzzle ever, 2D or not.

Attached: Concept Art - Ocarina of Time (1).jpg (581x880, 61K)

different user but
>I-I can't refute!
>I-I like eating shit so i-it's objectively delicious!

>I prefer actual passion and ambition
Pure passion is for faggots. Passion without talent (which is whats on display here) just leads to a pile of shit. The problem here is although any GOOD art style is better than realism, being an alternative art style doesn't automatically make it good.

>being an alternative art style doesn't automatically make it good
No and I despise SS's art for this but WW's style perfectly conveys the tone the game is meant to have. I know it triggers most Zelda fans because of their blind nostalgia of the company killing piece of shit that was the N64 but it's time to get over it

its easier and faster to not use the physics you retarded

>the company killing piece of shit that was the N64
Didn't the Gamecube sell even less?

You shouldn't fight anything in the game, its easier and faster and you only loose out on some shit chests with nothing in them. Just grab a good weapon and beeline the castle.

Fucking shit game really no content.

It's not about sales but the decision to use cartridges that birthed the playstation dynasty. The Gamecube was stuck into a hole it had no hope to dig itself out of

I would not put it in my top 5.

Cartridges are superior to discs. Nintendo made the right decision.

>nostalgia
My first Nintendo system was the NES, where I played a bunch of non-mainstream games like Hydlide, Jackal, Mendel Palace, Scherezade, and so on, but not so much mainline titles like Zelda. After that, I didn't own another Nintendo system until the GC came out. While it wasn't the first Zelda I played, Wind Waker was the first I put any substantial time into. If ANY Zelda game should be altered by nostalgia for me, it should be Wind Waker. Sorry user but I just see the game for what it truly is... Try that nostalgia shit on someone who fucking cares.

>top 5 Zelda's
No
>Top 5 3D Zelda's
Maybe, I'd have to think about it more. Sometimes I struggle to even see it as a Zelda game at all.

There are only like six 3D Zelda games so it shouldn't require you to think that much.

Technically, but for the time cartridges and discs didn't matter enough to actually limit games in a meaningful way and discs were a lot cheaper to produce. Now that every little bit of performance is being wrung out of these systems in meaningful ways, cartridges are becoming important again.

>Being this clueless about the state of of the industry in the 90s
Cartridges back then were limited an expensive. Nintendo lost Final Fantasy over it and the games that were on the N64 were restricted compared to what was on the Playstation. MM and OoT would've been one game on a disc based system

You have no idea what nostalgia is. It's not about which game you played first

Attached: 1559937696499.png (225x225, 8K)

This is part of the problem. What content there is often isn't worth consuming. Who cares about the next shrine or korok seed after the trillions you have? Especially when the rewards are so samely or lackluster. Say what you want about dungeons in previous games revolving around the new item you get, at least that changed shit up and typically brought something new. Instead, here you have all your items at the start so there comes an early point where nothing is ever new.

It mattered because 90s cartridges had fucking shit memory storage

>You have no idea what nostalgia is
No, I am perfectly aware of what nostalgia is. It is yearning for the past, usually for a time period you remember being happier. Nostalgia googles is when you are remembering something in a way that is at least partly fictional due to nostalgia. As for being nostalgic, PS to GC were some of my most nostalgic time periods. There is strong nostalgia for Wind Waker, but I don't have nostalgia goggles on like a fool. Maybe it is you who seems to not know what the definition of the words are that you use?

>I don't have nostalgia goggles on like a fool.
Hence why you're not blindly worshipping the N64.

yeah barely if you look at the official rankings
1. MM
2. OOT
3. TP
4. ALTTP
5. BOTW

Attached: IMG_1942.jpg (1024x1024, 176K)

play it again man, there's a wall you'll hit where you don't even wanna look at it anymore

Not him, but I can play it again and have fun up until I free the four divine beasts, but I can't stomach playing on after Ganon and getting all the shrines again

>You mentioned 2D games initially, so it counts.
No, it doesn't since I prefaced it with "most".
>Divine Beasts required influence to progress.
The influence there was extremely basic, all you had to do was switch something around a bit to get to a switch. It isn't comparable to changing the entire layout of a dungeon and using environmental clues to figure out how to progress.
>They weren't labyrinthian, but neither were most of ALTTP's overworld puzzles
Those were full dungeons, LttP's overworld puzzles were small distractions.
>I gave you a specific example in the sentence you just quoted to say that. Quit dodging the point.
No you didn't, you named a shrine without saying anything about it.
>Puzzles involving overworld navigation provide hints to guide the player towards their next destination. ALTTP does the same thing almost constantly.
Those aren't puzzles, they're fetch quests which LttP rarely if ever uses.
>That's maybe one counterexample out of the countless simpler puzzles that filled LA's dungeons. Oftentimes it's just a matter of finding the dungeon item and then using it on obvious gates or switches to open up new paths.
If they're so widely present, then you can name a few instead of generalizing. And remember, LA is only one of many 2D games.
>They were. Using the hookshot to go over gaps in Catfish's Maw isn't creative.
>Using the hookshot to go over gaps in Catfish's Maw isn't creative.
Having switches of one room affect another in Turtle's Rock is. You have to understand exactly how your actions affect the layout or you'll just get stuck.
>You're refuting your own points by leaning on the "trial and error" argument when that's generally a crutch you can use in almost every Zelda puzzle ever
In a lot of cases it just doesn't work. Even 3D titles have this on occasion like the guardian puzzle in TP or all of Sky Keep in SS.

>Hence why you're not blindly worshipping the N64
Correct. I don't blindly worship anything. As for design choices, I'd probably go with Link to the Past based on artwork but I'd have to look at in game design side by side to say which I prefer for that.

Okay, then what the fuck were you getting mad about? The post was calling out Zelda fans for having a romanticized vision of the N64

He's mad you don't suck Wind Waker's baby dick.

But I love WW

Why does everything after OoT cause a cluster fuck of shitflinging? How can this series be so beloved by fans if it's so divisive?

>what the fuck were you getting mad about?
Nothing? The only thing I responded negatively to was when you or another user tried making an argument that my opinion is based on nostalgia. This is just a cope out, and one that gets real boring to hear considering that defense is used on a daily basis when it never actually applies.

Because Ocarina of Time revolutionized 3D adventures. And then instead of making that formula better., Nintendo does what Nintendo does and decided to do new things. No matter how you see doing new stuff as, OoT is the one time where we should have gotten a bigger version of the game. Technically, that should have been Twilight Princess, but that game was bloated with needless shit and a bad artstyle.

Attached: 1558783706675.jpg (1280x1350, 200K)

>user tried making an argument that my opinion is based on nostalgia.
I didn't. I said most Zelda fans here have unhealthy N64 nostalgia hence why WW and its artstyle still gets people so butthurt. It has nothing to do with your individual opinion.

>that game was bloated with needless shit
That's usually what happens when you try to take a game and make it bigger

>needless shit and a bad artstyle.
no

When I say needless shit, I mean doing stupid stuff like collecting light orbs to pad the game, rather than putting actual content in those moments instead. You can tell Nintendo got lazy on that part of the game.

I don't know why. They delayed the game 6 months

I sure love vasaline.

LttP, Majora, and OoT are all better. The lack of dungeons kills BotW, snd shrines are shit. Hopefully the sequel fixes this.

it scares me that zoomers basically told nintendo that botw is the best thing ever. its not even a zelda game and this is the direction they might run with. another beloved franchise dead.

>Majora is better
>The lack of dungeons kills BotW,
Pick 1.

It does, he’s just retarded.

>not even a zelda game
Is this the newest meme of the NPCs? I'm seeing it posted a lot here

Which explains why you dislike TP's artstyle.

Not even close

Attached: 64GCDungeons.png (1064x746, 487K)

it is. you're not meant for this series

BotW is finally getting us out of the Zelda dark age we'd been stuck in for 20 years and you're pushing "it's not a Zelda game" meme? Disgusting.

>That many WW dungeons that high
Your spirit animal is a dumpster.

I kind of agree with you....in terms of placement, however, your "D" listed games are still considered pretty damn good games, even Skyward Sword is at least a C.

switch MM and WW and we have a deal.

it has no dungeons, there is no getting items to progress through said dungeons or unlock things in the world except some things like the fire tunic. it doesn't follow the general model that makes the best zelda games what they are. you can npc-meme that all you want but it makes for a shit game compared to other games in the franchise

>Zelda dark age we'd been stuck in for 20 years
WW and TP are better than OoT though.

>>That many WW dungeons that high
>2 in the top 10
>TP has 3, OoT has 4
What's the issue?

>it doesn't follow the general model that makes the best zelda games what they are.
So it's not a shameless rehash? This is bad?

pretty good list desu.

>BotW is finally getting us out of the Zelda dark age
Whoever told you that lie needs to be shot. Zelda was just shooting off with OOT and MM.

Attached: 1558844836301.jpg (800x600, 52K)

I'd say OoT itself is more a point of contention nowadays. People are finally admitting to themselves that it's aged poorly and was overrated at release because of the long wait and thirst for something to play on the N64.

No
I never played skyward sword so I can't comment on it but botw is not even a top 5 3d zelda game.

The Zelda we all know and love was the Yoshiaki Koizumi era (ALttP, OoT, MM, supplemented by whatever hand helds came out).

Don't act like it wasn't Ocarina of Time that made the series legendary.

Mario Galaxy is bar none the greatest game Nintendo has ever made, but it's sad how Zelda fans over estimate his influence. THe man you're thinking of is Takahashi Tezuka

if you've played more than 1 of these games you know they have a model to them. botw is boring and not a zelda game.

user, OoT is older than 20 years ago...

>you know they have a model to them.
A model I was getting bored with

>not a zelda game.
>No True Scotsman
Playing along with your retardation, if it's not a Zelda game then it's something better. Precluding it for abndoning its archaic conventions only casts the Zelda label as a negative one

But it literally does.

Why the fuck do we have to climb towers to uncover the map? Look at how Xenoblade did landmarks instead? Why not have THAT be the way you plot out the map? Expand on that concept instead.

Zelda copying from Open World me games like Far Cry was one of the worst things about BotW. It gutted all the things that made it great, to copy stuff that’s been done to death. It’s ironic too, when Dark Souls, which copied Zelda in the first place, would have been a better model to imitate than Far Cry or Red Dead 2. Sandboxes don’t suit the sense of adventure. You need to have open exploration, sure, you can go wherever you want, but you will face roadblocks which might prove too challenging if you’re underprepared, and the game still retains a sense of forward momentum. It gives you choices as to where to go, and there is an optimal path, but you’re free to ignore it and tackle it your way. But you still have a linear sense of progress. That’s how Zelda 1 did it, that’s NOT how BotW does it. Dungeons and Items still could have been kept in the game, fucking Megaman solved this shit ages ago. Just implement the same design philosophy on a larger scale.

I genuinely hope BotW2 fixes this, but considering Aonuma is now citing RDR2 as inspiration, I’m not so sure. Someone force the man and his team to play Dark Souls 1.

>Someone force the man and his team to play Dark Souls 1.

Attached: 1540440522212.gif (192x256, 87K)

I can remember sitting on the carpet with my brothers playing Forest Temple during a snow day morning a few weeks after Christmas. The game really was next level for the time in just aobut every way and damn if the nostalgia isn't hitting me damn hard.

Attached: icec.png (922x582, 963K)

>A model I was getting bored with
then why play Zelda

you were getting bored with getting items as progression and dungeons with small puzzles in them, in favor of being given every item at the start and moving an elephant's trunk as a puzzle? i haven't even gotten to the gigantic empty map or recolored enemies and items breaking after 3 swings

>It’s ironic too, when Dark Souls, which copied Zelda in the first place, would have been a better model
I said the same thing. Me and my friends already said that the Souls series is just a better Zelda. Having a zelda with a harder combat and more challenging content seemed like the most natural direction to go. It's a shame that for being professional designers, even the big guys get lazy.

>then why play Zelda
Because I still had faith that they could mix it up, and I was proven right.

I'll take the map over any of the other 3D games for sure

>It isn't comparable to changing the entire layout of a dungeon and using environmental clues to figure out how to progress.
It's comparable because you're manipulating the entire dungeon to progress and solve puzzles. If you want to switch goalposts to "changing the whole dungeon layout" then only a minority of 2D dungeons actually do that.

I'm not saying BotW's dungeons couldn't be improved, but they had the right idea with lateral-based puzzle solving.

>Those were full dungeons, LttP's overworld puzzles were small distractions.
ALTTP was filled with overworld puzzles just like BOTW. The difference is BOTW's overworld puzzles (namely shrines and shrine quests) involved more than just moving a tile around.

>No you didn't, you named a shrine without saying anything about it.
I'm not going to spoonfeed you on the details just because you didn't play the game. It's obvious how the Secret Stairway puzzle accommodates multiple solutions without there necessarily being a "correct" way.

>Those aren't puzzles, they're fetch quests which LttP rarely if ever uses.
That's wrong because ALTTP specifically has text cues for just about every story-related destination. Did you even play it?

>If they're so widely present, then you can name a few instead of generalizing.
Do I seriously need to write an essay listing the amount of braindead puzzles in LA? You're the one listing exceptions here, and only a couple of your examples have even been correct.

>Having switches of one room affect another in Turtle's Rock is. You have to understand exactly how your actions affect the layout or you'll just get stuck.
Literally the same for Divine Beasts.

>In a lot of cases it just doesn't work. Even 3D titles have this on occasion like the guardian puzzle in TP or all of Sky Keep in SS.
Sky Keep and that one statue puzzle in TP are absolutely easy to cheese. The latter took me only about 20 minutes of just random fiddling.

4 very good handcrafted dungeons > no dungeons.

>4 very good handcrafted dungeons
OoT is the only Zelda with 4 dungeons I'd call very good

user, OoT is older. BoTW is better than WW, TP, PH, SS, and ST. That was the declining age of Zelda and when many fans were losing faith as each title progressively got worse.

But WW and TP are fantastic and ST is damn good. There was never a decline. Just one bad game in SS

That’s cause you like being a contrarian to feel special.

>and when many fans were losing faith as each title progressively got worse.

Zelda went to shit the moment Aonuma became the lead director. After OoT and MM, there was a brand new world created for the franchise. Then it went to shit when WW came. TP was them trying to reclaim what they lost from before, but Aonuma forgot why we liked OoT in the first place, and it was shit too. Everything after has been them trying to reclaim the glory of the old Zelda instead of using the formula that ended up working. There's a reason all the Zeldas are forgettable and OoT remains king. It's not about nostaglia. It's about having features and content that is balanced right. Modern Nintendo is unable to make a classic because they lack the culture and the business sense. For them, it's just DLC, quick cashgrabs, and soulless Unity shit.

Attached: 1537267672772.png (800x1575, 891K)

>no dungeons
Did you skip the 4 divine beasts and Hyrule Castle? Also there is a lot of unique content not in strictly "muh dungeon" form.

I will agree with this. I’d need to replay TP to get a better opinion. But BotW is significantly better than SS, ST, PH, ALBW, and WW.

>Liking OoT's dungeons is contrarian
OoT has Forest, Fire, Shadow, and Spirit
Only Stone Tower in MM is on par with those and no other Zelda has 4 dungeons at least as good as that

>Aonuma forgot why we liked OoT in the first place
Because it got muh 99 on metacritic. Seriously, I don't think this fanbase even knows why it likes OoT

i remember thinking how boring and lame hyrule field was compared to kattelox island from mega man legends.
oot and even majora's mask will never measure up to the 2d zelda games. none of the 3d zeldas ever have.

Comparing the divine beasts which are just glorified shrines to an actual dungeon with a variety of enemies, doors and keys, labyrinthine layouts, unique bosses, and an actual theme, is an insult to the dungeons of old. Literally the only compliment I could give the divine beasts is that some of the puzzles were neat. Even SS did a better job in that department.

>there was a never a decline

You'd think there is with all the infighting that goes on in the Zela fanbase.

>I don't think this fanbase even knows why it likes OoT
If you ask any real fan, such as some of the ones in this thread, we easily say why we liked OoT and yet people like yourself and Aonuma continues to ignore it

Attached: 1565924890338.jpg (315x246, 33K)

Like, literally the one thing EVERYONE is saying about BotW2 is “I hope it’s darker like Majora’s Mask.” That and playable Zelda.

I've said it already in this thread, but it's all the out of control nostalgia of the N64fags. Gamecube and ALttP bros never do this much shitflinging

If that pic is why the game is liked then those are fucking shitty reasons. How about good and creative game design. Not saying that OoT doesn't have those things but those are what it should be remembered for.

You made me sad by making me realize that's why MM is liked despite being plagued by horrible game design in many places

>Zelda went to shit the moment Aonuma became the lead director.
this. you know how kojima haters always bring up fukushima as the "real" genius behind metal gear solid? that dynamic actually exists with zelda. koizumi was the real genius behind zelda, and aonuma has been totally exposed as a hack ever since koizumi stopped working on zelda games.

>koizumi was the real genius behind zelda,
Tezuka, it was fucking Tezuka. Sick of repeating this.
>Aonuma has been totally exposed as a hack ever since koizumi stopped working on zelda games.
Same time Tezuka left

You can bitch and cry all night about how they don't have the same size and detail as some past dungeons (they're actually pretty comparable to many) and yes there are legitimate criticisms.

At the end of the day they had major puzzles/combat/bossfights they are fucking dungeons. The shrines themselves are little chunks of dungeon - obviously they were testing a new gameplay loop of 15 minutes exploring, 10 minutes "dungeoning", 5 minutes crafting/resting, repeat.

Anyone else realize how much of a dick the Goddesses are? They pretty much know what is going on but they're like

>Hey, Link, since this is your xxth reincarnation, why dont you go do this thing now?

Like they're fucking with him

My favourites are Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time.
BotW got old really fast. Exploring hyrule isn't fun when the only things you'll find are korok seeds and Shrines.
Wind Waker unironically has better exploration. When you explore the great sea there are actually things worth seeing.

>It's comparable because you're manipulating the entire dungeon to progress and solve puzzles. If you want to switch goalposts to "changing the whole dungeon layout" then only a minority of 2D dungeons actually do that.
Some cases are a specific aspect and others are the entire layout. The key difference is that you have to pay attention to the changes themselves and apply them to new rooms to get keys/unlock a path, but with BotW, the change itself is all that's required.
>ALTTP was filled with overworld puzzles just like BOTW. The difference is BOTW's overworld puzzles (namely shrines and shrine quests) involved more than just moving a tile around.
LttP was also filled with Labyrinthian dungeons which are the focus. BotW uses the shrines as a crutch because it's lacking in dungeons which, like I said before, are further weakened by being reused assets.
>That's wrong because ALTTP specifically has text cues for just about every story-related destination.
The cues themselves work as parts of larger puzzles or explain a convention about a dungeon. It's false equivalence to compare them to crafting of all things which has nothing to do with a puzzle.
>Do I seriously need to write an essay listing the amount of braindead puzzles in LA?
If you're only going to focus on that one game yes.
1/2

>You're the one listing exceptions here, and only a couple of your examples have even been correct.
I've only listed a couple of examples in the first place. LA is one of many 2D Zeldas and even if parts of it are easier, there are also games like OoA which is full of complexity.
>Literally the same for Divine Beasts.
Like I said earlier, the Divine Beasts only require the changes themselves and no further thought.
>Sky Keep and that one statue puzzle in TP are absolutely easy to cheese. The latter took me only about 20 minutes of just random fiddling.
Both require a super extended amount of time to cheese to the point that you may as well stop playing or look it up. It isn't practical.
2/2

>When you explore the great sea there are actually things worth seeing.

Yeah no.

Attached: ocean.png (653x523, 528K)

>major combat
No they did not you lying piece of shit. And their size isn’t comparable. 3D Zelda dungeons always took roughly an hour to complete, sometimes longer in later games. BotW’s Divine Beasts took barely 15-30 mins. Not even remotely comparable.

>night
It’s daytime where I live, bitch.

>major puzzles
They each had a single minor puzzle.

>combat
Nope.

>bossfights
These were literally swinging your weapons until they were dead, with the possibility of having to pop a few apples for health. At least that is how I handled the boss fights since they didn't pose a challenge either way.

No matter how much you want to call them dungeons though, they were NOTHING like past dungeons. You may not consider past dungeons worthwhile, but that is your own opinion. Calling them the same is just factually incorrect.

>Stealing MM's objectively inaccurate map
He crosses out islands with Triforce pieces on them. Like it or not, they're important
He also crosses off some optional Islands that I genuinely enjoy

I would genuinely have preferred if BotW was half the size (literally the same layout and locales, just denser - trim the fat in all the wide open space), and scrapped all the divine beasts and shrines for 8 actual dungeons with items hidden inside.

Right off the bat:
Glider should be a late game dungeon item, that shit broke BotW.
Pegasus Boots
Hookshot
Some magical instrument that lets you control the weather.

That way, you have a longer time feeling weak, and making traversal an actual challenge, rather than just climbing high and gliding over every obstacle. But then when you reach endgame, you can be overpowered but feel like you’ve earned it.

>I'm not going to spoonfeed you on the details just because you didn't play the game. It's obvious how the Secret Stairway puzzle accommodates multiple solutions without there necessarily being a "correct" way.
And I'm not going to remember every single name of every single shrine. If you have an actual point, then it's up to you to back it up or accept that you're full of shit.

>OoT/MM is my favorite
>fucking BOOMER they're shit because (insert lack of dungeons, age, etc)
>WW, TP, BoTW is my favorite
>haha ZOOM ZOOM they can't touch the N64 Era haha ZOOOM

You know I'm starting to think all of the games are pretty fucking good, people just speak in hyperbole because some Zelda game didn't match up to what THEY specifically want and while they seethe thousands more enjoy it.

This. People dont realize that the most criticism we give the game is that it just lacked the game part. There was no challenge, nothing to do, and no sense of being. If we had that large of a world and it had great unique dungeons and locales that introduced them, the game would definitely be up there, if not trespassing OoT.

Attached: 1564669835799.webm (720x480, 1.63M)

The latter is more prominent than the former. I don't know what it is about the N64 as a console that does that to people. Is it because all the cool kids back then had playstations?

If they'd done that BotW would've actually dethroned OoT. 2 has that potential too, but they'll probably waste it on more meaningless shrines and orbs that don't feel earned.

It's the first Zelda game in a long time with challenge. I actually saw the words "Game Over" playing it.

the fact they are making a direct sequel to a zelda game just shows that is exactly what they are going to do. Nintendo has been lazy for a long ass time, now, and I keep telling people not to think you're going to get the old developers back. The passion is gone and they only care about money.

Attached: 1557381683507.jpg (1280x720, 206K)

They used to do that a long time ago, before Aonuma said only Toon Link was allowed to have sequels.

>botw
>challenging

you must be over the age of 18 to post on this site

>If they'd done that BotW would've actually dethroned OoT
No, it wouldn't because the games are different on a fundamental level.

>the fact they are making a direct sequel to a zelda game just shows that is exactly what they are going to do
Did anyone say this when MM came out? I was too poor for internet

Ignoring the blatant seething
>What is ALBW?

Are Zelda fans one of the most unappeasable fanbases in the gaming industry?

Oracle of Ages on the gameboy colour will always be the best zelda game to me

Botw 2 is NOT going to be MM, as much as you faggots keep claiming. There was a very specific culture and reason for MM, but you're not going to get that with this new game. You guys forget, MM was initiated cause a bunch of guys were like "we bet we could make a sequel in a year using the old and new assets" Botw 2 is made cause Nintendo's shareholders and dev house went "Let's use these assets to shit out another zelda game then call it a day as we go home and relax."

There's zero investment in Botw 2 creatively.

>The key difference is that you have to pay attention to the changes themselves and apply them to new rooms to get keys/unlock a path, but with BotW, the change itself is all that's required.
The change itself is the fucking applications you made to the layout of the dungeon, like with the cylinders in Vah Naboris. It's exactly the same fundamental concept.

>BotW uses the shrines as a crutch because it's lacking in dungeons which
BotW has a different philosophy as most of its focus is on overworld exploration.

>It's false equivalence to compare them to crafting of all things which has nothing to do with a puzzle.
The cooking system has everything to do with puzzle solving if it's about figuring out the best way to traverse a specific biome. The cues in ALTTP guide you to specific dungeons or provide hints on what to do when you arrive, but the point is that both games have them in abundance.

>If you're only going to focus on that one game yes.
Most of these games borrow the same basic formula of using the dungeon item on a specific gate to get through, but it's always obvious what the gates require and what you need to do to pass them. The challenge of a typical Zelda dungeon (barring the really macro-level manipulation ones, which are only occasional) is often just figuring out which room to go to next, and anyone can eventually figure that out with basic trial and error.

>LA is one of many 2D Zeldas and even if parts of it are easier
90% of it is easier. 2D Zeldas in general aren't terribly complex, but I do agree they have more complex design overall than most 3D games. My point was that BotW pushes its puzzle philosophy a bit closer to the 2D titles with its divine beasts.

>Both require a super extended amount of time to cheese to the point that you may as well stop playing or look it up. It isn't practical.
They don't take that long to cheese. You're dramatically overselling how complex they actually are.

>Botw 2 is NOT going to be MM, as much as you faggots keep claiming. There was a very specific culture and reason for MM, but you're not going to get that with this new game
Oh, so that means I can actually expect a well made game and not just muh atmosphere

. You guys forget, MM was initiated cause a bunch of guys were like "we bet we could make a sequel in a year using the old and new assets" Botw 2 is made cause Nintendo's shareholders and dev house went "Let's use these assets to shit out another zelda game then call it a day as we go home and relax."
Do you have any citations for this or is it just nostalgia talking?

>it wouldn't because the games are different on a fundamental level.
How so?

Challenge, not challenging. Things actually do damage when they attack you, instead of something like TP or WW's 1/16th heart damage from the final boss's ultimate attack.

I don't fucking know. You either and BOOMER who is too caught up in the past and can't see that they games have aged badly so your taste is shit and can't move on past your supposed "rose tinted glasses", or you're a ZOOMER that doesn't understand where the series came from so you have "shit taste" and aren't a "true Zelda fan".

Attached: picto.jpg (600x610, 65K)

OoT isn't open world. BotW doesn't have dungeons in remotely the same sense that OoT does and has barely any true focus on progression

>Things actually do damage when they attack you
There's many enemies that hurt you back in the old Zelda games badly, and even then, the dodging and blocking mechanics made this so simple it wasn't even a problem.

Yeah, the real old Zelda games like Zelda 1 and 2. Aonuam's allergic to those, which led to to the worst Zeldas.

I'm with these two.

Attached: 1466398968185.jpg (700x775, 314K)

Attached: 1542124888932.png (416x319, 71K)

No it doesn’t show that at all. That’s what I’d hope they do. But I’m still cautiously optimistic. I know better than to get my hopes up with Aonuma.

Going from a Far Cry Zelda reskin to a Red Dead 2 Zelda reskin isn’t exactly an upgrade.

>HEY GUYS !! GUYS! MAJORA SUCKS! HEY, FUCK YOU! LISTEN TO ME! THE BEST GAME SUCKS! YOUR FAVORITE GAME SUCKS! HEY! LISTEN TO MY OPINION! HEY! MAJORA SUCKS! HEY! LISTEN! HEY! MAJORA SUCKS! GIVE ME ATTENTION! ITS FUNDAMENTALLY FLAWED! I’M NOT GONNA EXPLAIN HOW, BUT IT JUST IS! HEY! ARE YOU LISTENING YET?! I NEED ATTENTION! DID I MENTION MAJORA SUCKS?

Give it up retard. You ever been at it all thread. No one cares about your opinion.

Add that onto this to deal with MUH DECLINE retards

Attached: This is not what a decline looks like you fucking morons.png (1248x362, 148K)

You clearly do

>I’M NOT GONNA EXPLAIN HOW,
I've done it enough times and they just pack up their toys and go home when I do. I'm just going to state facts as if the time limit and 4 dungeons don't make the inherent lack of content obvious enough

If that's metacritic's idea of "must play", then maybe video games really are dead.

It's funny because you're pretty much describing the entirety of this thread.

>Where's my circlejerk?

No, I clearly don’t. I’m telling you to shut up because it’s obnoxious to have you reply to every post with the same canned response I’ve chosen to ignore several times now.

I don’t give a shit about what you think of Majora’s Mask. You’re not a game designer, your arguments are weak, and you’re only doing it to feel special. No one gives a fuck.

>metacritic posting
worst nu/v/ meme

In a sense. But given that we have a sequel to BotW coming up, speaking about what we would have liked/would like to see is good discussion. It’s just a shame these threads always devolve into the same nonsense.

>I'll show you how well I've ignored you by replying to it
Your seethe sustains me

>You’re not a game designer
Is anyone here?

No, but he’s the only one speaking with authority on the matter.

>>It's exactly the same fundamental concept.
>switch is inaccessable
>change beast
>switch is accessable
OR
>come to point A
>point B is unreachable
>observe point C in another part of the dungeon
>come across point A again
>make the connection that A/B is similar to C and make your way across to point B

>>BotW has a different philosophy as most of its focus is on overworld exploration.
Meaning that you can't compare them to LttP since the point is about the puzzles.

>>Most of these games borrow the same basic formula of using the dungeon item on a specific gate to get through
And in later dungeons, how you use an item plays a bigger and bigger role. Often times, this requires experimentation with the item itself to get a better grasp of it and understand how it can be used to progress. This is an issue with BotW because of its lack of items and the ones you do have are all explained to you from the get go.

>My point was that BotW pushes its puzzle philosophy a bit closer to the 2D titles with its divine beasts.
That's fine, it took major steps toward that. It's just limited in scope because what you're doing with the Divine Beasts isn't much more than geometrical or basic switch flipping. Had they incorporated more elements like water or wind so you have to think more in depth, it would be perfect.

>They don't take that long to cheese. You're dramatically overselling how complex they actually are.
Sky Keep took me several hours and I needed a walkthrough for the TP puzzle at first, but I guess I was also younger at the time so fair enough.

But it's obvious that when you set a time limit on a game you must also design any and all content within the game to be tackled within that limit and you can feel it in the length of the dungeons and other portions of the game. You don't need to be an actual designer to piece this together.

It comes down to subjectivity and preference at that point. I personally think it would be much better.

It's virtually impossible to have any Zelda thread on Yea Forums in general. Because whatever entry in the series the OP post to talk about will get drowned out by people shitting on it for whatever reason. On /vg/ the Zelda threads come and go, but mostly just end up becoming waifu posting, but they're less of a headache than any Zelda thread on Yea Forums.

>This thread
How can any fanbase hate its own series this much?

It's more of an autistic love that extends into overanalysis and baiters take advantage of that too so it's a mess.

What kind of love makes you hate everything a series has done for the last 20 years?

I'm pretty sure that's bait.

Then that person is dedicated enough to post it in EVERY Zelda thread.

>improvements to combat
wat
The combat feels like shit and they even gutted the sword moveset so you do the exact same combo every time.

Maybe you loved everything it did before those last twenty years.

So it's nostalgia as I've been hammering home all night because I'm bored.

It's so frustrating being a fan of this series who did not grow up with it and being cursed with an actually objective view of every Zelda game before TP

Attached: 1543376853994.jpg (500x500, 28K)

We can all agree Twilight Princess is top-3, right?

Attached: midna3.webm (920x550, 3M)

Just barely not. It's number 4 on my list

How's it nostalgia?

Yes, did you not realize who you're sharing this board with?

test

People only being mad at the new games because of their attachment to the older ones. WW and TP never get judged around here on their own merits, only on how they're different and therefore bad. (TP gets accused of ripping off OoT yet the parts where it's most like OoT is where it's praised. Anything original it does gets killed)

The same idiots are so determined to knock down Breath of the Wild, but can't actually find major faults in its gameplay that it now simply "isn't a Zelda game"

It's infuriating to see this kind of stupidity fester online for a series I see get nothing but actual love when I step outside but I suspect its because these are the sorts who never leave their rooms

What's so bad about ST and ALBW?

Nothing, I love ST but they're too new to be nostalgic.

>make the connection that A/B is similar to C and make your way across to point B
There's nothing even remotely compelling about that if that's the kind of difference you're trying to articulate here. Getting cucked by some random roadblock and then remembering I can suddenly access it after getting an item doesn't feel rewarding to me at all. It just means I'm not restricted anymore.

>Meaning that you can't compare them to LttP since the point is about the puzzles.
I'm comparing them in the sense that BotW has about as much creativity even if the approach is philosophically different.

I think we're better off agreeing to disagree at this point. BotW is hardly a perfect game in my eyes but I don't think we should undercut what it brought to the table for the series, regardless of how you think it compares to 2D Zeldas.

>sequels are judged compared to games that came before them
Woah, you solved the mystery yet again, Holmes!

MM was different as fuck from OoT yet nobody had any problem with that

>BotW is hardly a perfect game in my eyes but I don't think we should undercut what it brought to the table for the series, regardless of how you think it compares to 2D Zeldas.
Fair enough, it's better than the basic trash they've been throwing out with the 3D games.

>what is it about this game that triggers the fuck out of Yea Forums?

Yea Forums just can't let it go. This isn't about BotW being a 10/10 game or "97" or GAME OF THE DECADE or whatever. It runs deeper than that.

This is all about the humiliation this board suffered at the hands of Nintendo. After nearly a year-long hate campaign of shit posting, cherry picking screenshots and flat out spreading lies, Yea Forums attempted everything in it's power to belittle the game and Nintendo's new console.

You could audibly hear their jaws drop in absolute fucking horror when BotW turned out to be one of the best games of all time, single-handedly turned the Switch into a massive overnight success and proved once again that Nintendo were at the cutting edge of game design.

Mario Odyssey was just as critically appraised but the saltyness from that game cuts nowhere near as deep into Yea Forums's psyche like BotW.

They'll never get over it and that's why they've spent the past THREE FUCKING YEARS trying to rationalise the whole affair in their minds.

Attached: 1560156411224.jpg (950x534, 39K)

ALTTP/OOT are the two most influential games in the franchise. BotW was the second worst 3d zelda after Skyward Sword imo, TP was better and WW's good parts were better though it had some shit parts.

nice spacing.

>Mario Odyssey was just as critically appraised but the saltyness from that game cuts nowhere near as deep into Yea Forums's psyche like BotW.
WHich is weird because it was the most disappointing game I ever played and deserves the shit BotW is getting

Pretty much this.
As much as non-tendies bitch about Switch port begging. They want Nintendo to go under as a hardware manufacturer so they can get ports and BOTW delayed those prospects for at least 6 years.

Ok.

I thought both games were absolutely fucking amazing. What can this possibly mean?

You really like games with a focus on exploration, but BotW had shit I actually wanted to explore while Odyssey didn't

Can't say I feel the same. I honestly just thought both games were superbly crafted single player adventures - unpretentious and flat-out fun gaming experiences.

After how creative Galaxy and 3D World were, Odyssey left more wanting more.

dumb pasta poster

How is Mario Odyssey any less creative?

>Grass World
>Desert World
>Water World
Zzzz.

Then you get cool shit like the not-Dark Souls world with nothing to do in it

I'm always under the impression people just desperately want to hate Switch games.

They can't stomach admitting any of Switch's game are good despite all the evidence and testimony to the contrary.

The idea of endorsing the Switch is too much.

Ruined Kingdom only being used for a boss will never not bother me, they could've gone all out with a spooky realistic setting with unnerving enemies akin to 64's piano, and instead you just fight a lazy dragon and then only come back for like 3 other moons at most. Hopefully Odyssey 2 or whatever expands on it but holy shit what a disappointment

Attached: mariosouls1.png (1280x720, 702K)

>I'm always under the impression people just desperately want to hate Switch games.
Imagine making your life about the switch and thinking any criticism against its games is some boogeyman who rubs his hands together happy to shit on another game from a low quality handheld

Attached: 1561629549522.png (1333x1358, 236K)

Yea Forums has no problem having Xeno 2 threads. The shitposters there are just the same ones who get mad at anything "anime"

It's not the only one though. The Cloud and Moon Kingdom were also wastes

Aren't you proving him right?

It would only be proving anything if this wasn't thread about a game that came out on both the switch AND the wii u.

Moon Kingdom I don't mind being barren but Cloud was definitely wasted. Bowser's Kingdom could've also been more than just a straight line of floating islands but I get that they were going for a "final stretch" vibe with it

My point is all the most unique level ideas are the wasted ones while the ones with the most to do in them are the concepts I've grown most weary of.

MM has the best story and dialogues of out all the Zelda games prove me wrong.
you can't

There aren't enough posts left to go into it properly but I would say Wind waker because I prefer Wind Waker's emphasis on its core story with enough impact to it to spawn 2 sequels over Majora's Mask and its focus on smaller subplots with a main plot that doesn't really have much impact on anything in the long run

Imagine being traumatised because Nintendo keeps making the best video games in the world.

Like they've ALWAYS done.

What that feel like?

Attached: 1565931004441.jpg (179x282, 8K)

its not even an average game, it sucks

lmao

>Imagine being traumatised because Nintendo keeps making the best video games in the world.

Attached: 1551626064440.jpg (620x337, 24K)

>Ubisoft, EA, Rockstar, etc. have been making open world games for a decade or even longer
>genre is stagnating
>Nintendo shows up
>having no background in AAA 3D open world development, they decide on a whim "Here, let me try that"
>right off the bat, Nintendo make the best open world game ever made on their very first attempt using a fucking toaster.

This will never not be hilarious.

Attached: 1538802026609.jpg (640x640, 126K)

C.O.P.E
.

Attached: 1564672422825.jpg (938x1024, 137K)

Never played a single Zelda game. They always seemed kinda gay to me.

>t. polygon

okay, genuine question. how do people stomach playing this game? the combat is simplistic and your weapons break far too often to make it worth even attempting to clear out camps of bokoblins. the shrines get old and samey after the 10th one. the lack of music really hurts the atmosphere, the enemy design is unimaginitive and lacking variety. the only good things you cna say about it is that the initial sense of adventure is incredible, but that quickly fades when you see that outposts are copypasted, enemies are reskinned as "different" in the lava/ice/electric areas, and the final fight is a huge pushover. i really can't understand why people say this is a return to form for zelda, it just feels so empty and gigantic, like wind waker's problems blown up 200 times.

I really liked it and that's all that matters in the end. Whether I personally enjoyed it or not.
Looking forward to BotW II.

Attached: 354435354453543.jpg (1697x1290, 388K)

WW story only shines at the end, and it barely has an effect on the world before this, WW story is like other Zelda story, but without a risk that other Zelda had, ganondorf did nothing to the great sea besides kidnap some girls.

Attached: 354435453451354435.jpg (1692x1291, 395K)

In some isolated respects, yes. No Zelda can touch it in terms of exploration and mechanics, but design philosophy is a wildly hit or miss prospect if you liked how Zelda worked for the last 20 years. That's not to say it isn't a breath of fresh air but there's definitely aspects that can turn off longtime fans with certain sensibilities, an obvious one being a want to conquer dungeons over exploring the overworld. So depending on what you want, it really can be either the best Zelda ever or among the worst.

I had fun going through it and the dlc on Master Mode. Only rough part was some of the floors of the Master Sword trials.

I've never cared for the dungeon aspect so I was happy.
Skyward Sword took it too far in the dungeon direction and BotW took it too far in the exploration aspect. There should be dungeons and mini-dungeons spread throughout the world but not be such a focus that the overworld only exists for you to beeline to the next dungeon.

how do we feel about Hyrule Warriors?

Attached: 1555577478379.jpg (600x595, 143K)

good concept, weak execution

And that's a perfectly valid viewpoint. For me, I play Zelda primarily for the dungeons. Twilight Princess was pretty much Zelda tailor designed for me, with Skyward Sword being even more ideal on paper but mucking things up with a good deal of generally bad ideas and executions. Loved it when it didn't suck though, and to that end I prefer both to BotW, though I did love parts like Hyrule Castle, the 3 labyrinths and Eventide Island. Wasn't terribly impressed with the divine beasts unfortunately, plus I'm not a fan of its changes to swordplay and health systems on top of that.

I bought it three times and put a combined 900 hours in it across all three versions.
Sequel when.

>is BOTW even a top 5 Zelda game?

BotW is one of the best Zelda games ever made. In the future, ALLTP/OoT/BotW will be remembered as the quintessential Zelda titles which shaped the whole series.

Attached: Duj30PhXgAAJN1E.jpg (659x680, 115K)

My favorite Musou besides Pirate Warriors. Gimme a sequel.

Awesome. Got it on 3ds, got it again on Switch.
And I was one of those guys that were sceptical and didn't like musous