In a pre-catacylsm world, these zones could all be very different from their cataclysm counterparts...

For clarity, this would be a Phase 7 to Classic WoW, and they said they would do it.

Probably and i mean, it was obvious something like this could happen

People who "starving" like you should play retail. That's all i'm saying.
Trash lore, good raid, retail is better than TBC.

its a self contained continuation of classic. 60 is still the level cap. 300 is still the profession cap.

Phase 7

No it definitely wasn't. I assumed Blizzard would launch classic and then instantly leave it to rot, this is all a huge surprise to me and I'm still suspicious of it

i can't tell if you're a child who wasn't playing in classic or a genuine retard, see you in 1 month

that zone is full of worgen in classic wow

wowhead.com/npc=2529/son-of-arugal

Wait, what did they say about a potential phase 7?

I would love for them to finish the classic version of karazhan that was originally planned for classic.

The reason Atiesh teleports to Karazhan is because kara was supposed to be in classic

Attached: 10066-karazhan.jpg (606x599, 68K)

they would do if people asked for it.

>tier 3.5
The game would be better off expanding horizontally rather than vertically if they're going to do Classic+ content. Itemization in vanilla is very poor, which means there's a lot of room for introducing new gear and new item sets without increasing the stat budget. Gear that allows specs that suffer in pve due to poor itemization to actually function while allowing non-hybrid classes to play specs that were otherwise unoptimal.

I started playing with TBC. My best experience are the vanilla parts.
Outland is fucking trash zone, with fucking trash lore. I don't want my eyes to have cancer again.
You want to beat loot pinatas? Go play retail. There's a new one every 4 months. I'm not kidding, the raids are actually goods, especially on Mythic.

isn't bottom left meant to be ahn qiraj? the placement isn't right for uldum, which is south of tanaris.

true, that would be nice but i'd like to see new zones as well if possible without creating new main cities.

There is no such thing and most likely wont ever be.

the gear couldnt be worse than naxx gear, and raids need a difficulty curve of before you have the gear vs after you have the gear

Can I get a source? All I've heard is them saying TBC would be the easiest.

Karazhan's dimensional fuckery would lead MUCH better into TBC than what we actually got which was "the Dark Portal is open now, stop asking questions and buy the expansion pack".

no, AQ is underground and a small circle.

You love Elves? Go play retail. 4 elven races just for you. Have fun, Tranny.

also the references to the dark riders in duskwood. They were clearly amping up for karazhan to be a major area.

Esfand said TBC would be easiest and should be released before classic+, and told the devs that, but thats because he plays a ret paladin and wants to be viable.

the classic devs said theyre open to doing both.

That was before AQ opened up

I'm aware. I'm just saying the door to uldum is in the south of tanaris, while that placement is right where ahn qiraj is.

i really like the idea of classic+
having Hyjal, karazhan, uldum and other zones be introduced as new content but with classic design philosophy seems great, this includes new content on the original zones so that new areas dont become a focus or a hub for endgame, of course, the problem is that the moment you introduce new gear and items the whole game changes and that would probably require balancing , which im also fine with
they should still keep a few servers frozen on 1.12 forever and have new servers every 2 years just for the people that want to play with #nochanges

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you could still have new content after nax and have a balance patch with said content that balances things in the way TBC did it, or at least fix the paladin/druid/shaman specs a bit

If they add Worgen again they should be a horde race but able to sneak into Alliance territory with their shapeshift ability, but if they get into combat they reveal their true forms. Make it mechanically meaningful and not just for looks.

But that's just it, isn't it. WoW used to be a game you could enjoy throughout the week with couple raids being the cherry on top. Now WoW is a chore that you can do throughout the week to be prepared for the one good bit of the game that is still going. I don't care how much you hate Outland, or the mis-matching gear, you are objectively a fucking mongoloid if you believe that BfA has more going for it than TBC did. It doesn't. It never will. Don't drag us down with you on your sunk cost fallacy, faggot.

Feels like Warrior is like the only class in the game that was finished in vanilla.
It doesnt suffer from muh hybrid tax and other excuses for shit game design.
Fury works as PVE DPS, Prot is a tank spec that actually works and Arms is the go-to PVP choice.
Everything has a reason to exist and it just works.

Attached: 1556599114759.jpg (1200x921, 667K)

endgame in TBC was really bad outside of raids. you just did the same five mans over and over. essentially what you do in BFA but less.

>Now WoW is a chore
TBC introduced dailys
>BfA has more going for it than TBC did
It has the same quality in terms of raid. That's all what TBC brought. More raids to drug addict like you. Because drug addict like you asked for the devs to give them the RTS characters as loot pinatas to make their nerd ego feel better.

no fuck that. dont change any of that shit.

This. So much this. Even the crypts are cool af

#NOCHANGES

after Phase 6, what does it matter?

#Classic+

Agreed. Naxx needs to remain the top tier of gear. They just need to flesh out the world more and the itemization within it.

You can't just let everything get more and more powerful, that's the problem with the expansions progressing vertically.

There's already a vast chasm between normal dungeon loot, pvp loot and T3 epics. They could add a ton of new dungeon, pvp and world encounters and loot, more mid teir raid loot, like 10, 15, 20 man raids, to flesh out that vast chasm.

That's more more the way to go.

I'd rather classic+ than BC servers since it would give them a chance to do a better job with the outworld content instead of how they butchered it in BC, but realistically it's modern blizzard so it would just be even worse.

not him but some people just want to play X version of a game forever, consider that the slightest addition of new content already shifts meta and balance
for them, i say give them servers that wont get updated past 1.12, im up for classic+

about a tier 3.5 that has similar stats to tier 3 but its all arcane resistance.

*casts frostbolt*

What planet are you on, bud? In TBC every single raid was relevant, right up until the end of the expansion. Karazhan, Black Temple, Tempest Keep, Sunwell, Gruul, Magtheridon, Zul'Aman, the world bosses. All of it was viable and being ran. And your issue with running 5 man dungeons applies to every single version of WoW, especially classic.

>TBC introduced dailies
Some quest content for people who want to play every day. The horror.
>Strawman bullshit about RTS characters
I don't give a fuck about any of the Warcraft RTS games, haven't played them, don't intend on doing so.

Classic+ should have

Grim batol
Dalaran
Caverns of time
Karazhan

And blood elfs, so horde could have pallys and allies shamans. This will make the map 100% accessible.

And make the dark portal a raid.

its okay if all the classes arent balanced.

the hybrid tax should exist.

woah its almost like I mentioned endgame in WoW outside of raids. according to you raids are just "the cherry on top".
and literally no fucking T6 geared player ran older raids.

>And blood elfs, so horde could have pallys and allies shamans.

If they add any races it should be goblin for horde and blood elf for alliance. Keep shaman horde only and paladin alliance only

yeah lets just make over half of the choices in the game shit and useless. that makes the game better.
but warriors shouldnt pay the hybrid tax because reasons. thats good and consistent design.

>And blood elfs, so horde could have pallys and allies shamans
Fuck off. Homogenization is bad. At this point don't make factions.

no. wrong. no.

no wotlk cities.
no raids from TBC.
this isnt a greatest hits of xpacs, its NEW classic content.

Pallies are fucking needed in naxx m8 shamans runs out of mana

If they do what OSR does that would be fucking epic.

autist, its not half the choices. its really only 3 classes which work best as healers. fuck you and your shitty paladin.

filling in the gaps between entry level and naxxramas wont keep people occupied forever. at most it will work as a catchup mechanic for shitters that cant do it with the existing tools.

what a fucking joke of a post

They aren't wotlk cities, they belong to classic. Everything that's in the 2 continents should be accessible. Let them finish what they couldn't back then. Just take a look at karazhan crypts senpai

they could also just give shamans better healing/mana regen?

Dalaran should be in ruins. It was already stupid enough to see it being rebuild and fly.

Forgot the zone above the plaguelands where Quel'Thalas is supposed to be.

literally more than half of the specs ingame is shit.
and while there are FOUR different healers there is only ONE tank. and thats a good thing according to idiots.

no one cares about your tranny paladin.

Druids can Tank Naxx.

yeah man, an army of mages totally couldn't rebuild a magical city.

Ye, and the zone south of silverpine should be accessibke, and the zone to the east of wetlands. Alextraza is important in classic, so let them finish grim batol. That zone with the red dragons looked cool af

Exactly.
And your "army of mages" were slaughtered by Arthas anyway.

>Druids can Tank Naxx.
yeah they get used for ONE fight lmao

Blizzard should do a speed runners realm, and maybe classic+ for those missing regions

this just shows 0 imagination. play the expansions which have all those things.

also dont patch anything about talents or classes. leave it as is.

Out of all the unused spaces why was Hyjal the only one to be named? I remember on private servers you could explore it and there is actually that small village. So much potential for a Classic+. I wouldn't mind a slight graphic overhaul either.

There aren't roles in classic, there are classes. Each class brings something unique and needed to a raid. Keep playing retail

except all the dozens, if not hundreds of mages that weren't in dalaran when arthas sacked it.

Think Oldschool Runescape

>There aren't roles in classic
lmao

Yeah I get that. I'm sitting here trying to figure things out just like everyone else. I'm definitely no expert. But you can't just have infinite progression just for the poopsockers when 99% of the rest are miles behind and still trying to either catch up and do that stuff or wanting to do other content to get similar level gear.

There can just be a top level so to speak. And then the focus can switch to other things. Like territory control etc, things that can be fought over indefinitely. Thanks that make one faction more powerful in magic or melee, perhaps just temporarily or some shit.

it was probably the furthest along but ran out of time to finish it. i would guess felwood and winterspring would have been crunched to lower level zones and hyjal would have been 50/55-60.

You think mages was a common thing back then?
Where were they anyway? Having a picnic in Kalimdor while their capital was sacked so that Arthas could summon the Legion?

Devs have said theyre open to doing both classic+ content and BC, depending on how much continued interest in classic wow remains after phase 6.
They also said that BC would be easier for them, obviously, so if the community wants that it would make sense for them to go in that direction

the entire thing.

youtu.be/Mmh0yQWHTGE

jaina didn't go alone to kalimdor. There were kirin tor representatives in stormwind and probably ironforge...

BC sucks, classic+ forever.

All of the mages that went with Jaina remained with her at Theramore.
>There were kirin tor representatives in stormwind and probably ironforge
Cool, 5 dudes to rebuild an entire city and make it fly, when there are tons of other shit much more important to do.

Caverns of time should be included cause provides lore about hillsbrad and arathi, and also mount hyjal

Blood elves should be cause quele thalas is north of stratholme.

Karazhan should be a 3.5 tier raid using an atiesh as the key to open it and let the raid in. The legendary item is already in game and deadwing pass is a totally wasted zone.

Grim batol makes sense to make it an instance as victor nefarius is one of the main antagonist of classic.

Non accessible areas like east of wetlands, south of silverpine, or dalaran ruins inside the barrier should be included for the sake of completion of the game, why you can't understand about the map not being finished otherwise

if you think about it, BC is classic+ designed by the team who made classic, while classic+ would be the current WoW team's idea of what classic is. would you really gamble on the current devs doing a better job than what was made for BC?

No.
>Demon invasion happens as it did in the pelude to BC, only HFP is an actual raid with the end boss being Magtheridon.
>Illidan, meanwhile, escapes Outland in the ensuing time and flies to Hyjal. He tries to steal water from the well of eternity there and Maiev intervenes.
>A scuffle ensues, and Illidan manages to flee back to the nether, but leaves a parting gift in the form of an unstable rift that causes demons to port in and attack the area.
>After having banished the demons, some important NPC states that the magic energy unleashed will have attracted the attention of the burning legion, and the focus shifts over to Karazhan, the one other spot on Azeroth strong with arcane energy
>Upon arriving at Karazhan, Xavious makes a suprise guest appearance and explains that the Legion had contacted him first and is using him to allow them access into Azeroth.
>With Xavious outside the Emerald Dream, we're tasked by Tyrande to retrieve the trapped spirit of Malfurion in order to defeat Xavious once and for all
>Emerald Dream Raid ensues, where we fight the wild spirits from the war of the ancients, whom Xavious had tortured in order to trap Malfurion's spirit there.
>shortly after that, Karazhan raid happens where Malfurion destroys Xavious and putting an end to his corruption of the dream, and the final raid is Kil'jaeden at the top of Hyjal, in a mirror of Archimonde. KJ is defeated by the players banishing him back to the nether, much as how it happens in the Sunwell raid.

>designed by the team who made classic
Not really

I think TBC could easily be done by a B team within the classic group and the heads of classic could do classic+. You could probably outsource TBC at this point since all the hard work is done with classic. TBC is just built on what already exists.

Play a class and spec that matters, dps shitter. Bet your dumb ass stands in fire as you do bad dps too.

Blood Elves are in Outland. Quel Thalas should belong to the Scourge.

Demons were just aliens, I really hate this change

too complicated of a story for classic, id prefer if they left all TBC elements out as well.

Emerald dream would be cool to explore for a simple reason.

i think you misread me, i said the hybrid tax SHOULD exist.

And emerald dream should be explorable cause ribete are portals everywhere.

I want BC too, because I think that or WotLK was the high point of WoW, but won't this separate an already diminished player base? Are they going to make a cata or MoP classic? Where does it stop?

Wrath seems like a logical end point since that's Azeroth pre-Cata.

When the continents are completed un terms of lore. Mount hyjal / Karazhan should be the endgame.

no CoT, no Blood Elves. That is established TBC content.

Uldum's probably not going to be a thing, unless some world shaking event happens. It took Deathwing going apeshit to drop the barrier and expose it to the rest of the world. Also you kind of didn't circle Uldum on that map, that's Southern Silithus you marked instead.

But yeah Hyjal could have something that thematically fits with Darkwhisper Gorge, instead of just dropping Ragnaros there and calling it a day. Gilneas and Twilight Highlands could have something not-Cataclysm related. Those two empty spots between Stormwind and dwarven lands are blank slates. Additionally, Silvermoon could finally become something that's not fenced off into its own instance. Azuremyst Isle would be interesting to see without the whole Exodar crashland thing. Azshara could finally get some of its old planned content, instead of being turned into gobbieland. Hell, that AV-sized BG you mentioned? That's what Azshara Crater battleground was supposed to be until it was shitcanned when the devs responsible for PvP were moved to the TBC team.

Some of Cataclysm's other additions could be worked in too. Not the places that got changed, but the ones that weren't even a thing previously. The shore east of Blasted Lands. Steamsprings in the mountains between Un'Goro and Silithus. Mountain lake and night elf village in the corner bit between Desolace, Feralas and Mulgore. Tirisfal Forest (not Glades) west of the glades.

Bonus points for WC1 references, like if the ruins of Rockard and Grand Hamlet get added in somehow.

What I mean is that you'll have players spread across retail, classic, BC and wrath. Or do you move classic to BC and then on to wrath whether they want it or not? I never thought Blizzard would do this. Releasing classic is more embarrassing than not releasing sub numbers.

Darkshire is Grand Hamlet.

>Releasing classic is more embarrassing than not releasing sub numbers.

What the fuck kool-aid are you drinking?

>The hybrid tax should exist
Then it should apply to Warriors and Priests as well.

They need to use the upgrade models then

It's tantamount to admitting that retail in its current state is fucked.

Why were there no Scourge in the Night Elf zones in Vanilla WoW if they were everywhere in WC3? There's no way they all got wiped out or were all in Razorfen Downs. The demons had to hold on to at least some of them

Retail and Classic are fundamentally two different games. It's like comparing OoT to BotW. Except one was legally unplayable for a decade plus.

There were demons in Ashenvale and, you know, Felwood.

Probably didn't use Scourge since there was already plenty of undead content as is.

Blizzard's kind of terrible in this regard. There's a ton of interesting and potentially major plotlines that are plain forgotten. Probably because the writers don't talk to each other, or even play the game.

Then the unlucky few plotlines are dug up a couple of expansions later and used for something completely different. Dark Riders of Karazhan? Actually just black market merchants you kill off in a death knight class quest. The entire nation of Stromgarde? Spent six expansions being forgotten, then was briefly rebuilt completely, then killed off again in a single death knight class quest. Archmage Arugal, father of the Worgen? Somehow moved to Northrend to become a random quest mob, then in the next expansion was retconned into never having existed. Ashbringer? Questline's existing bits deleted. Gets a brief mention in TBC. Then nothing, until suddenly every Ret paladin gets one for free. Only to be broken in the next xpac.

Exactly, and by releasing classic Blizzard are admitting that retail is bad. You think they'd be doing this if subs weren't in the tank? People have been asking for classic since cata. There's a reason they're only doing this now.

Well yeah, do you think them clearly ignoring a demand would make it go away? How is it embarrassing, it's actually giving people what they want.

Or are you one of those types who thinks companies should never second-guess themselves?

>Worgen as enemies only
Nah

I would really love for classic to be a reboot of WoW and the WoW lore, however I also don't want it because I know with 100% certainty that the current incompetent fucks at blizzard can't make anything good or even decent.

Attached: 1447543966212.jpg (346x517, 30K)

I'm half convinced Blizzard's doing this just so they can later point at Classic's failure and go "I told you so". Which means that if Classic does actually get and stay popular, they're not prepared for it and don't know what to do next.

I wouldn't mind if they actually did a Classic + that branched off into some alternative plotline of content. My only concern would be that design-wise and aesthetically, they would have tot ry and keep it consistent in matching Classic's art design and style.

They could do Karazhan's basement as a new dungeon, for one.

Stromgarde is more or less rebuilt and part of the Alliance in BFA.

Oh hey BfA actually did something right. I quit in Legion so didn't know this. Thanks.

It's embarrassing to their current team. How could anyone see it differently?

Same. Their stance was always you think you do but you don't. I'm going to cachinnate when classic has more subs than retail.

In a post-cata world, zones like these would not exist.
But this is not a post-cata world.

Hopefully chromie takes us on a different time line, fuck TBC.

Is porting an old game to a new system embarrassing to the current devs of a company? Christ, you're acting like these people are children.

The retail salt and lore brainlet is real
Vanilla era Comics and fucking knaak boots stated that kirin tor was alive and well in Vanilla, but most mages were occupied rebuilding and purging dalaran from the remnants of Arthas Scourge.
The Mage Quarter in Stormwind serves as its temporary Headquarters.

2 roles is nbd, 3 roles is the entire game.

how can you tell the difference when people are paying for both ?

fuck off furry

on what people are playing

They remodeled the whole city, and is a full hub. It's part of the awful Warfronts system, though.

It's an indictment on their current work. Have you ever had a real job? Imagine if your customers were clamoring for the person you replaced to come back. How would that feel? What do you think the CEO would think?

More than half of the classic races are anthros

I wouldn't care, cause in this case the job and company would be completely different from the one people are clamoring for. I made my comparison. Blizzard even acknowledges that Classsic and Retail are basically completely different.

im all for classic+ but not expansion way
for starters I would add a raid with tier set comparable to t2 thats designed to work with meme specs.

I'm pretty sure that after Phase 6, they'll begin deciding on where they want to go with Classic. Whether it be launching a few TBC servers with the option of transferring your 60 character over to continue to 70, or to begin releasing new content specifically for Classic at 60.

Unpopular opinion of mine: I didn't actually care a whole lot for TBC. Some of the zones were pretty dull, and I thought a lot of the gear looked awful, aside from BT / SW, and a few other tier sets.

Blizzard ran out of time to make that one, the previous non accessible betas has the dragon isles.
wow.tools/maps/Azeroth/1/6/-51.977/72.109
i wish wow tools had access to those

Attached: 8domjgsdqxd21.jpg (636x1119, 86K)

Current classic devs are apparently everyone that left the team for whatever reason after TBC, not sure on that though.

That's the current corporate spin because they're in desperation mode. Again, why do you think it took so long for them to release classic? They didn't want to admit that retail was borked.

I think Everquest used to release progression servers. They'd get updates at an accelerated interval, once one progression server advanced to a new expansion, they'd open a new one. That way there'd always be a server for each expansion available. I can't remember what they did once the servers caught up, they might have allowed you to transfer off before resetting them or something.

From the blizzcon interview it just seemed to be people who used to play vanilla and pre-cata wow who were passionate about the project, still they chose to go with the legion client instead of just using their 1.12 reference client and update it for compatibility with bnet2.0, which says a lot about their skills.

No they didn't. I'm not denying that. I'm just contesting you in thinking it's embarrassing to release an old product.

Was it embarrassing for Nintendo to remaster Wind Waker and Twilight Princess after Skyward Sword wasn't the most well regarded?

>blizzard is going to copy paste content until we have the same awful mess as retail
>blizzard will never add new interesting zones to quest in for the 1-60 range
>blizzard will never flesh out zones that lacked quests
>blizzard will never do anything right because they haven't been blizzard in nearly a full decade now
I honestly wish I listened to my friend and just got into runescape

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The folks from vanilla and TBC that matter are long gone my friend. The best we can hope for is that the current team implements it faithfully without touching or changing anything.

That's not a valid comparison since thos games are standalone. Retail is technically still the same game as vanilla, just a decade and a half of updates. A more accurate comparison would be FFXIV and a realm reborn. They realized it was a disaster and reworked it.

Just expand the game horizontally through new quests, dungeons, raids and locations without upgrading the gear to ludicrous levels that makes the previous content trivial.
Instead of levels and increased stats tie progression towards gaining new abilities directly or some other reward.
I'm not entire sure what would be the best thing, certainly not my early morning spitballing, it's practically square one after all, they can go a number of different directions with this and i'm interested in seeing what they'll do.

They likely did that so the maintenence guys dont have to juggle two different systems on top of keeping all the bug fixes that have been done over the years, cant really fault them for wanting to do less work when the difference is minimal.

Azshara Crater when

They aren't just updates, but expansions, which Blizzard semi regards as games in their own right. Go to their site and see their portfolio, and it doesn't just list WoW. It lists TBC and on.

I think you're really making these devs out to be more sensitive than they are.

There were several questlines that alluded to raids/events that weren't released in vanilla, such as Kharazan or the emerald dream. Classic+ would theoretically add these without raising the levelcap.

After the phase with Naxx is out, continue on:

Phase 7: Grim Batol 5-Man dungeon with Blackrock Spire level gear, Azshara Crater BG, Uldum 40-man raid

Phase 8: Karazhan 20-man raid, Karazhan Crypts opens as outdoor elite area with new quests

Phase 9: Hyjal zone opens: level 55-60 zone, Emerald Dream 40-man raid with Naxx equivalent gear

Phase 10: Kezan zone with new goblin race for the Horde, Quel'Thalas with new High Elf race for the Alliance. Zul'Aman 5-man dungeon in Quel'Thalas

Phase 11: Gilneas and Kul Tiras zones; Gilneas has Greyfang Keep, a max level 5-man dungeon; Kul Tiras has Tol Barad, a new BG

Phase 12: Outland, but in the style of WC3 or the vanilla beta, level 60 quest zone. Black Temple 40-man raid.

Phase 13: Northrend, split into 3 zones: The Howling Fjord which has the only friendly settlement, an Argent Dawn town. Dragonblight, a sprawling wastleand filled with undead. And Icecrown, frozen glacier which houses the Icecrown Citadel, a 40-man raid with the best gear in the game.

What if classic+ tier 4 started giving additional talent points, would that be too far?

Lower respec costs from 50gold to 10gold FIRST OFF
Straighten up flight paths to not take so fucking long flying out of the way for the idea at teh start which got patched out by 1.11 of haivng to click a new destination at every flight path join point. instead of going from orgrimmar to rathet and having to nearly stop at the crossroads becuase of the old flight paths that were in the game from the start were tehy didnt want you to get there fast to slow down their game along with an expensive as fuck respec costs, which didnt portray end game shit or the repsec costs didnt portray any shit except for maybe some leftover from beta idea. fucking fly straight from org down the river to ratchet, save me a minute of time. T. straighten up flight paths.
give an extra bank slot. open up 20 slot bags, it was so late in the game they didnt judge wether you needed more inventory slots or not. playing on a cracked server, holding all of the damn gear i need to go to a raid with, was nearly impossible, add to that engineering items, extra mounts. just one pet from all the events, maybe one suit. your frost protection naxx set, your nature protection aq40 set, your fire protection for some mc and bwl, pvp/pve set. you have no room T. add the 20 slot bags, and maybe an extra bank slot it only sits at the bank. -also-
add a mount tab and make me not have to carry/remember them. add a pet tab too. dont add more damn pets without adding content that gives context to them, that isnt just cosmetic shit. never add cosmetic shit alone.

Yes. A fourth talent tree or a new class is unironically more likely.

Fuck classic+, just make wow 2. Redesign the world from the ground up. retcon everything. Make zones larger and more continuous instead of having round hills separate them. Make the factions make more sense after Warcraft 3
> Alliance - human, dwarf, gnome, high elves
>Horde - orc, troll, tauren, ogre
>Night elf - neutral to both alliance and horde, can raise rep with both
>Forsaken - neutral to both alliance and horde, can raise rep with both, hates night elves
Make the level range from 1-100 so it actually makes sense. Rename hunters to rangers. Add the necromancer class. Change the UI so that summoning minions is more intuitive and you can control them. Keep talent trees, make LVL 100 talents ultimate abilities from Warcraft 3, that are actually fun and powerful, like finger of death. I could write an essay on how to fix wow, but it's not going to happen so why bother

WoW has more content than just about any active game, yet they only use less than 10% of it. Timewalking and being able to level where you want was a start, but they need to make everything scalable so that old content can still be relevant in some regard. If you have that big of a resource you have to leverage it.

Agree to disagree. They've put this off for years for a reason. I think because it's an admission of failure for the current state of the game. There's a reason they didn't do it when subs were still high.

You could easily get to tier 6 in classic without substantial power creep.
Having a ton of extra side grade tier sets would do wonders for some specs

You can still get into it.

Both retail and oldschool grow on you pretty fast.

If it was a standalone old game, you might have a point. But the whole thing's a work in progress, something that's been constantly iterated and improved on for fifteen years. Fifteen years of work from an entire team of developers, and the customers tell them the whole thing's wasted and they want the first version instead. That's not even remotely the same thing as just porting an old game.

Anyone who complains about Warriors being the best class and not paying hybrid tax etc etc have never played a Vanilla Warrior. They suck a bag of dicks unless they're a) ahead of the gear curve and b) have a pocket support or two. Without those they might as well be using rubber dildos as weapons because they'll never get enough rage to hurt anything and it's a moot point since they can be kited indefinitely.

Most Warriors will spend most of their life tanking shit and then getting demolished in pvp because they aren't able to no life the game. Those that can sink all their time into their class and outgear people will steamroll but relative to say a Mage or something, you have to spend way more time getting their.

>Demon invasion happens as it did in the pelude to BC, only HFP is an actual raid with the end boss being Magtheridon.
but Illidan killed him in Frozen Throne?

Id be alright with the greatest hits all wrapped into vanilla. I dont have much faith in blizz to make good content anymore.

>They likely did that so the maintenence guys dont have to juggle two different systems on top of keeping all the bug fixes that have been done over the years, cant really fault them for wanting to do less work when the difference is minimal.

But doing that generated 1000 other bugs though, like how the legion client when overlapped with the 1.12 messed up the terrain on zones that were remade post cata, not to talk about all the wrong animations and sounds for spells they had to fix.

Stop lying about this, Preraid BIS warrior tops meters in MC just the same they do in Naxx. They don't pay any hybrid tax

i agree with everything except flight paths and remembering mount spells
also think that fishing and arena events should be more fleshed out, to encourage more players to participate instead of just the autists

>want Classic to go back to the good old days
>Retail and Retail devs ruined everything
>but you know Classic is a little lean around the ribs
>so guys when are these same Retail devs gonna start making Classic+?
>I don't actually want the good old days

OP you and those like you are some seriously stupid fucking brainlets, holy shit.

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It is absolutely ridiculous that old dungeons arent incorporated into the mythic + system. It seems like a no brainer

Fascinating map, that. I wonder what happened to Arathi and Hinterlands during development.

I wouldn't, I just want vanilla. Blizzard can't make new content that isn't shit, they're creatively bankrupt

This only makes sense if you look at WoW as solely a series of updates to improve the game, and not something that's had its design philosophy shift over the years. The devs would have to be blind and ignorant not to realize rather than better or worse, Classic is just extremely different from what's currently available, and some people want different.

>wanting nublizzard to do anything
You'd get bfa 2 not classic 2

The mythic+ system is shit, nobody wants that except retail drones. Go die in a hole.

It would only work if I made it. I just need 40 billion dollars to buy out blizzard.

>doesn't want to kill furries
Fucking faggot

Uldum was obviously heavily indoors if not entirely, like the temple of AQ but without bugs.

Wishful thinking + outright delusion

No they don't. Rogues still beat them, so can Mages. A Warrior will have to throttle his dps because not only does he not have threat reduction built in, but the tank (assuming he is also in preraid BIS) won't be generating as much threat as a raid geared one. This will be compounded even further in Classic since damage numbers were off in private servers and so were boss armor/parry values.

We are going to see quite a different game this time around with correct blizzlike numbers and not private server assumptions.

yea just look at overwatch.
hadnt played in a year or two
fuckign tells you to use 2 tanks 2 healers every fucking match now. that was never the idea. that was never the suggestion. but every time now. it bugs you. and dps classes used to have attack and defense sections. now theyre just one big dps spec. shit noone knows how to play. sure they might pick a good one but they dont get that this fucking tracer isnt a defense class

>Feels like Warrior is like the only class in the game that was finished in vanilla

What meme is this? People were crying about how "bad" warrior was for years to the point where it invoked server riots. Meanwhile everyone on planet earth cried about rogues and hunters.

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Blizzard now has the tech to make an underground zone without the bottleneck of pcs, so throwAzjol nerub into the mix
the late hayven covered that zone
youtube.com/watch?v=teSSu9aHSXc

What are some vanilla mysteries and locations that were absolutely ruined in retail? The gate in Tanaris comes to mind, while we speculated if the gate was meant to contain something dangerous or if WE were the dangerous thing being contained, turns out it was actually the gate to a stupid meme zone dedicated to an Indiana Jones parody.

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People in vanilla were retards who couldn't itemize their way out of a paper bag, dude.

Blizzard doesn't have the correct numbers either lol

It's a private server meme. It's easy to go back to pvp crit montage videos of warriors with endgame gear, several pocket healers and zerker buff steamrolling undergeared keyboard turners and take it as gospel that Warriors are king shit. Nobody seems to remember just how fucking gimped they were and how many weaknesses they had compared to other classes. Then you have private servers with their off tuning and estimated numbers that skewed them in their favor.

Cataclysm in its entirety was a bad idea, other than introducing playable goblins

How do you make an alternate timeline though
As much as I would love that, ir implies blizzard realizing that one product is shit, eventually shifting focus to classic and the having Activision crap all over it

while i would enjoy seeing a classic version of the planned stuff we never got
the fucking community just went apeshit on an addon creator that let you post and find groups. you really think they would say yes to actual new content?

I fucking wish.

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and there are retards who still thinks that paladins and shamans need cloth robes to heal.

I'm wondering if anything will shift now in terms of class viability now that we understand itemization better. Feral druids and agility for example. 1.12 already started fixing some of the stat budgeting problems the game had, so you didn't get pieces with INT and STR on them. It may be that specs that were deemed unplayable get vindicated.

>stupid meme zone dedicated to an Indiana Jones parody.

jesus christ how I hated that shit, a fucking shitty made cutscene every 5 minute, just thinking about me gives me nausea 7 years later.

>Add Mount hyjal as a max level zone (no dailies though)
>Add Gilneas as a lower level leveling zone + 20 man raid
>Add Uldum as a higher level leveling zone + dungeons & battleground (no raid though because AQ40 is already desert-themed)
>Add Grim Batol as a 40-man raid
>Add Quel’Thalas as a max level zone
>Add twilight highlands as a battleground
>Expand on Azshara, adding more high level quests and a naga themed raid
>Add Karazhan as a 40 man raid and Karazhan Crypts as a 20 man raid
>Ogres on Horde, High Elves on Alliance
>Add pre-retcon Outland
There’s so much blizzard can do, and it saddens me that none of this will happen because classic TBC would be so much easier to make.

>Everyone is wrong except me because I remember it differently even though I have no evidence

pretty simple to me. If they raise the level cap I'm out.

fuck you guys i had forgotten about that until just now

So basically you just want retail itemization and stay distribution where every upgrade is literally just the same stats but higher. Ok, you're an idiot.

Fuck you guys I want classic style DKs. DK's got one singular expansion before WoW jumped the shark. I've been playing undead since I first held a moust god fucking damnit.

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Dalaran was destroyed. Why would we have that? Bringing it back was no better than Illidain and Muradin.

No you fucking retard. We have a better understanding of how classes work and what stats scale best now. Nothing is changing in terms of what stats appeared on what gear. The only thing that changes is the gear that people go for. Paladins wearing cloth for example.

And Uldum was still the best Cataclysm zone with all of that in mind

You just said druid gear was fixed because it didn't have str and int on it anymore

isnt BiS pre raid for heal palys just priest gear?

What are the good addons for classic?
All I can remember are selljunk, vendor prices, atlas, bartender? was that the good action bar mod?
Can't remember much else

>the fucking community just went apeshit on an addon creator that let you post and find groups
>community is upset by people creating something that caused the decline of the type of game they wanted to play

you couldn't be more disconected from the reality.
A reboot of the franchise has been planned since WoD, releasing Classic is the first step of a big scheme of things that will lead to that.

Good but Outland and Northrend would be a big mistake, there shouldn't be any content we already did in the expansions that don't need some kind of do over.

There's been a lot of design philosophy shifts over the years, yeah. Blizzard's own blogposting on the subject makes it fairly undeniable. Yet most of the changes have been iterative, attempting to solve one problem or other. For example, daily quests. There's a lot of blog posts about how they evolved across various expansions - from something to do for people who don't raid, to something that's mandatory for raiders, to something that's trying to get people to get out in the world and not just sit in LFG all day, to timegating allied races and whatever is it they do now.

Big shifts there, but they're all problem solving iterations. Narrowing down what players actually want and how to do it. Improvements to the base game. This decade and a half of building on top of previous attempts makes me believe the devs see the whole game as a series of improvements and updates on a single base. I might be wrong, of course. But seeing as how they slowly iterate on things rather than have the balls to rip out something that's clearly not working and replacing it entirely makes me think I'm right.

On a somewhat related note maybe Classic's possible success will give them a kick big enough to grow those balls and try some bigger changes. Would be interesting to see.

Yeah in 1.12. Did you even play in vanilla you fucking piece of shit?

It should be a dungeon dalaran/dalaran prisons-sewers, we should be sent there to recover kirin tor artifacts to use against the scourge.

If they add new content and terraform the map to add new zones, wouldn't it all have to be designed to look like the original content? I can't see them doing that. Even in shitty browser games like Runescape the new content they tacked onto the older version of the game is graphically out of place.

It's a case of the unintended journey. Every step is logical and serves a clear purpose by itself, but when you combine them, you end up in a completely different place than you wanted to be. Blizzard didn't plan out how the game ended up, they essentially used updates to put out "spot fires" and ended up there by accident, which is why the modern game is such a dyslexic experience with systems and mechanics that contradict each other all over the place.

There WAS supposed to be a Naga raid in Azshara, but they scrapped it.
Azshara crater is ingame as a AC-ish BG but blizzard never went forward to add it, and if you look at the zone you may notice that there is no Nelf or Orc subfaction in there.
And in lore is because of the Gulch stalemate in between the Warsong clan and the sentinels, Horde never got that far as splintree post and the lumber camp.

1.12 paladins needs Crit, int and spell power, naxx geared holy paladins are fucking highlanders.

Outland and Northrend need a do-over that are more consistent to WC3's renditions of them, imo.

Naw. Priests benefit from spirit, pallies want mp5 instead. 'course priests won't say no to mp5 gear either, but there's not reason for a pally to get any spirit gear.
All the other stats they like are the same though yeah, just with pallies having a higher priority on spellcrit.

>Grim Batol
Yes
>Dalaran
No
>Caverns of Time
FUCK no
>Karazhan
Yes

If they were going to do a Classic+, Hyjal is an absolute must. I'd also like to see them finish Quel'thalas instead of having Eastern Kingdoms awkwardly end.

Decursive

Uldum, Gilneas, GRIM BATOL, Karazhan, The emerald dream, Mount Hyjal and many more

>start harassing blizzard for burning crusade
BC with working BGs is my ideal "MMO retirement home." I hope they are already working to get that ready to roll when people start bitching.

That it is. I can only imagine what they could do with all the experience they've piled up if they could do a hard reboot with no backwards compatibility requirements.

Uldum was a great zone, incel.

If only...

Feels so bad knowing that, if anything, the opposite would happen with Reforged.

only people who like expansions are blizzard shills
the expansions should be seperate games ONLY.

Maybe they'll end up doing a Cataclysm 2.0, doing graphics updates on the old zones. Something like a zone or two at a time. I wouldn't complain if, say, Stranglethorn was changed to look like Krasarang Wilds if that's the only thing that changed.

> want classic+
> TBC was when mages were the most fun
Help!

No ice lance or elemental fucking sucks

You were a fucking anti-fun cancer

I can't wait for Classic Classic WOW to come back in 10 years

Not surprised ppl got pissed, warrior in vanilla was a long string of minor nerfs to abilities and talents each one after some top pvp'er would do some crazy shit with the best gear and some special item.

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This but with priest and druid. They play about the same in classic, but I liked the extra talent points and gimmick specs TBC had (blackout disc, restokin, etc).

How about:
1. Dalaran inside its bubble instead of a flying city. Practically its own instanced zone because of the bubble. Contains an inhabited zone with Kirin Tor troops, and an undead zone with scourge remnants. Quests involve cleaning out the remaining scourge, delving into the ruins and sewers to recover artifacts, and accidentally opening the Violet Hold, turning it into an instance similar to its two already existing versions.

2. Caverns of Time, minus the instances and raids it leads to in retail. "Just" a cavetown full of bronze dragons. Maybe some lore telling quests, and some other questlines from other zones telling you to go to the caverns to ask the dragons wtf is up.

>and bloodelfs
Mcfucking kill yourself

So you do think gear homogeneity is fixing it?

For me, it was knocking fuckers out of their mounts mid flight or off cliffs with invisibility

Yeah it would be like BFA, you moron

1. This is sort of what you'd have to do if you were going to introduce Dalaran, and I would be fine with it. It would just be weird to see it back so fast after Archimonde leveled it.

2. This is also basically fine. I hate time travel but I can't pretend the Bronze Dragonflight doesn't exist. Could be funny if they added dialogue alluding to the retail timeline as a timeline where "everything went horribly wrong".

I'm not against Dalaran personally, but Violet Hold is one of the shittiest dungeons in the entire game, no thanks

Why would Hyjal be demon infested? Have you played WC3? If anything it would be nelf stronghold. Also Uldum was just some cave entrance in Tanaris, what you circled in pic is quite literally AQ

old lore says when a demon dies their soul goes back to the twisting nether and they regenerate their bodies

How about dalaran not inside a bubble at all and it's a huge expansive ruin of a city like it was in TFT, full of undead, demons, rogue wizards and so on. How about the same for the lordaeron capital

>old lore says when a demon dies their soul goes back to the twisting nether and they regenerate their bodies
Yeah, and Magtheridon wouldn't be in Outland if that happened, especially after Illidan closed all the portals

>liking fun spells makes me anti-fun
Uhh, think you're confused buddy

no no no no NO NO NO NO WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

That was ONLY Dreadlords, ONLY, no one ever said SHIT about Pit Lords or eredar or ANY other demons regenerating in the Nether, EVER before the fucking TRAINWRECK that was Chronicle/6.2's demon lore that I'm STILL fucking LIVID about to this day

>le demons trans sende all timelines XDit's relally archminode gusy!!!! archimionde from warcraft is BACK!!! XD

Pretty sure Classic + is impossible simply because people will bitch and moan if they change anything. Even with an OSRS poll system 99% of new content ideas would be shot down.

And that's a good thing

Look at this seething loser giving a fuck about WoW lore lmao

I agree that TBC is actually bad. it removed everyone from Azeroth, flying removed everyone from Outland. Dailies suck. The raids were bad too.

No one is dumb enough to think classic+ is a possibility, let alone dumb enough to think it would be good. We're just having fun.

I honestly don't even want a TBC server. Classic is it.

Just make sure you keep separate servers for people that want to play 1.12 forever, don’t throw the opportunity of an alternate timeline to waste

Honestly, a retcon that says only a small percentage of High Elves became Blood Elves and followed Kael'thas would be better. Then for new races we can have Ogres on Horde and High Elves on Alliance.

Ogre
>Warrior, Shaman, Warlock, Mage
>Start in a new starting zone behind Stonetalon mountains or in Valley of Trials

High Elf
>Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Mage, Priest, Rogue
>Start in a revamped Quel'Thalas or in Elwynn Forest

Honestly should have been there from day one.

>mortal strike used to be 200% fucking weapon damage
>bloodthirst used to turn 2h fury into the most retarded single mob grinding machine in the fucking game
What a time to be alive

GOD I CAN'T WAIT FOR CLASSIC AND PVP

I JUST WANT TO FUCKING RAPE AND KILL THE ENEMY FACTION

You don't need a retcon for the blood elf thing, many high elves left for kalimdor with Jaina and probably never knew about the blood elves

1. Fix QoL shit that TBC and early WotLK dealt with such as the LFG interface (not LFD), soul shards or whatever they're called being less of a pain to gather etc
2. Give spammy classes more buttons
3. Optional new models (for the love of god please give humans a less gay belf-esque model, not everything needs to be a Jojo insert, but nearly every male race is too muscular and it looks retarded)
4. Get rid of rep grinding or make it less tedious
5. Dwarf shaman and... Something horde pally
6. Begin a OSRS path with content that doesn't kill the feel of vanilla
7. NO FUCKING FLYING MOUNTS EVER
8. Dungeons that aren't just fucking hallways, have a handful of BRD/Mara sized dungeons and design them elaborately instead of a million aforementioned hallways, thinking about it the only dungeons I liked since vanilla were from cata
9. New races are fine but keep them lore and theme friendly. Alliance could benefit from high elves as an alternative to a less muscular human model, horde would get something with paladin as a class (lore: x race got too overzealous with the whole righteous fury thing, got sick of alliance not supporting them and fucked off to horde)
10. I don't know how but revamp the whole profession system
11. Regular mounts get a speed increase to 100% at 50, epic mounts are now 150% speed
12. Level cap going past 60 is fine but obviously additional content should keep the feel of vanilla

over doing it. retards also cant understand that classic+ should not be existing expansion content.

>5.
Fuck yourself

If youre filling your bags with pets and mounts then you can fuck off back to your retail mount collection game. dont turn classic into that.

It makes enough sense thematically. Let's not pretend retarded space goats we're a better option

Look at this retard and the dumb shit he wasted time typing out. Alliance shaman and horde pallies... Really nigga?

fun for you, anti-fun for everyone else

its just a phase 7 to keep classic alive, and content created in the style of classic

It makes no sense thematically, that's the main problem with it

Fuck off

Paladins should stay to Alliance and Shamans should stay to Horde

These were some in vanilla eastern kingdoms too, numerous enough to have their own faction rep. Silvermoon Remnant, iirc. Aside from random alliance questgivers, they had a lodge in Hinterlands and an expedition in Azshara, of all places.

How to do this the right way
>poll players with a fuckton of questions of what should and shouldn't be added
>throw out any submissions that were overwhelmingly yes/no to filter biased zoomers and purists out respectively
I tried a million times to make a mage in TBC and it was mind numbingly boring and spammy. Modern WoW didn't do much right but it fixed mages

Democracy never works

>a soft reboot of the WoW timeline
God I so wish. They simply made the players and events too retarded and too big. We shouldn't be killing Kealthas, Illidan, KJ, Arthas or sho the fuck knows what they let the players kill now. The player should always remain an adventurer, a mercenary, not champion of the horde/alliance or commander or some bs.

Demons from Felwood found a way up there and scourged it.

Esfand is a fucking retard and every other private server nigger that thinks having multiple instances of the same game like that is too

Did you and your buddy get 1v2d by a Frost mage in tbc? Ouch.

Oldschool Runescape has a polling system where if it doesn't get 75% approval, it doesn't pass. OSRS has kept the theme and style of OSRS with additional content that hasn't changed the core systems of the game. They should do it this way

>better mana regen
>ele fully viable
pls

Why does blizzard need the players input on how to fix the game? Why don't they know?

Without purist-esque shitposting, why is everyone actually so opposed to this? I get not everything listed is an amazing idea but horde basically screwed on a tank and alliance a non antifun dps.

Here's where I'm really going to piss people off; replace most horde quest hubs with something besides tents and spikes. I don't know why horde-side WSG-esque buildings are so impossible

No to everything you posted. Every single thing is bad.

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he could have regenerated and traveled to outland through some other means, don't forget the legion has literal spaceships

replace? fuck you.

cant stand orc buildings? level in undead zones.

Zeah is an absolute clusterfuck of idea-guy tier design
Not true democracy since the retards are quietly filtered out

agreed

>factions are unique in Classic and even have their unique classes that fit them
>nah, better give everyone the same shit
You are the reason why Retail is fucking soulless and boring

doesn't matter that regeneration only applied to dreadlords since blizzard decided every demon gets to regenerate afterwards, the explanation stands

>75%
And it has been a disaster

I would only agree to 90%

>don't forget the legion has literal spaceships
Not in WC3 they didn't

favorite raid of all time.

Simply a proposed addition, content, raid etc, and you vote yes or no.
It's not ideal, but it has loads of content and objectives. Once Vanilla is stale, even if it isn't perfect, an entire CONTINENT with new dungeons, gear, quests, etc will we welcome I think

The retards are not quietly filtered out, since everyone but me is a retard

the distance was too great to travel without portals, the spaceships could have existed back then

Even more of a disaster that it would have been if they didn't add any new piece of content since it's rerelease?

>(lore: x race got too overzealous with the whole righteous fury thing, got sick of alliance not supporting them and fucked off to horde)

So Blood Elves?

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Yeah but why doesn't blizzard know how to make the game good without the players input?

>90% wouls result in no new content
Nah

Alright, so space goats and faggot elves are shit and don't belong in the game. What should vanilla's expansion races be? Surely no one would objective to horde Goblins and alliance high elves? Well, no one but the faggots and trannies horde side who want to play pretty races that is.

>3.
>7.
>8.
The only good or ok points you made. Everything else is absolutely terrible.

I wouldn't be opposed to 90%

Blizzard really could have done with a Loremaster Sperglord on the payroll who made sure any plot point ever mentioned eventually got rolled into in-game content somewhere. There are so many needless asspulls in WoW for the sake of "EPICNESS" when they could have laid the path there brick by brick for a much more satisfying journey.

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The expansion races should be night elves leaving alliance and forsaken leaving horde. That's it

Hey, the idea isnt to add races, its to add content. no new races.

ogres for horde
high elves for alliance

I'm still mad that they wasted such a great zone as Gilneas for a tutorial mission and then in parts for some shitty pvp crap.

new races are content

>not wanting to give the alliance another race that can go pala, just like horde got three shaman races

>We will NEVER get to play Naga in a decent version of WoW.

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They disregard player input for corporate profits, store mounts as an example. Retail wow is not an MMORPG, is a fuckin e-sports, a carnival of epics and giant ass mounts. It's too bloated

The biggest problem with wow is that new content makes the old stuff irrelevant. The game needs to progress horizontally instead of vertically.

Nope, i dont want that. I think that type of whining is what ruined wow. shaman are horde, paladins are alliance.

a new race isnt new content. we dont need a new city, or a new starting area. we just need new raids and raid related zones with rep and recipes.

phase 7 is a continuation of character progression, not a chance to make a new character. but faggots see it as a wishlist for their tranny paladin bullshit.

Dire Maul already some Classic content irrelevant

not exactly, people didnt stop running UBRS, Strat, and Scholo when DM released.

I would actually agree. It's one of the few good points of GW2 and what made GW1 so great. The problem is WoW is a fundamentally different kind of game. I don't know how a horizontal progression system could even work in WoW.

Then upgrade the gear from the other content

Reread what he said

You make raid gear with similar stats as Naxx gear, but with an added emphasis on resistances. that keeps people in check outside the instance and a sense of progression as you gained resistance gear inside the instance

Nah, just make it so that levelling beyond 60 requires raiding

high elf paladins will be the same cancer that blood elf paladins are. the game is better without them. stop playing a paladin.

If the plan for Classic+ is to repeat the mistakes since Vanilla, then it's a hard no from me. Respec costs grow the more you respec, then shrink the longer you go with respeccing. WoW was not originally a game where respeccing was supposed to happen often: you were supposed to spec according to how you preferred to play, not according to the activity you were doing. That was a burden created entirely by the idiots that turned the game into World of Raidcraft because raiding was almost an entirely separate game. No other activity in Vanilla WoW was exclusive towards others: you could level, quest, PvP, explore, farm, alone or with others on just the spec you were accustomed to. The exception was raiding, which forced people into narrow roles depending on their class and narrow specs depending on those Everquest-derived roles.

Making respeccing convenient was a crucial step towards all the Skinner-boxes being introduced to condition players into seeing raiding as the ultimate goal. I don't like your other ideas either, but making respeccing easier is the worst one by far.

Blood elves were cancer because they don't belong on the grug faction, dumbass

Im not a paladinfag, fag, and no, night elves already exist

They are on the fucking Alliance, bro

Who gives a shit

High elves would be fine, because they're a pretty race in the pretty faction. Alliance already has faggot night elves, one more brand of faggots does nothing. Blood elves are cancer, because they're a pretty race AND Paladin on horde side, so of course they're gonna be overpopulated as fuck.

classic+ should just remove paladins from the game

Hunter feels like the least finished and is the best because of this.

Honestly, I agree. Why are Paladin players such colossal whiny faggots?

Weren't the high elves historically neutral? Aren't they still, even in BfA? They also seem to be hidden as there are barely any high elves visible in the whole game.

Why is that necessary? People already have two fine choices if they want to roll pally. Anyone who won't roll the class simply because they need to look at some faggy elf 24/7 is most likely a tranny who shouldn't be playing the game.

yeah they are neutral, paladin trannys just want to have cyber sex as them.

The alliance treated elves like pure horse shit. Why would they ever ally themselves with the alliance?

Because it's Classic + and not nuwow lore

Meanwhile one class had a real reason to complain and many were banned for the online protest: Shaman players and the infamous dot-shock spam, following their borked 'class review'. Warriors had little to complain about; 'Tigole' and 'Furor' were both Warrior-mains and made sure that they uniquely had two viable roles in raids, where every other class was either a DPS or healer-only.

The crypts would be a reasonable classic+ raid, the aesthetic is already there.

But making high elves part of the alliance would make it an even worse lore than nuwow. It'd be nu-nuwow

Garithos was literally a random military general that happened to not die and the rest of the Alliance wasn't aware of what was going on. The rest of the Alliance always treated the elves well, even splitting their armies thin to do so in the Second War. The elves were the ones that were always shitty and walked away whenever was convenient. Even then there was a portion of the elves that never left the Alliance and can be seen in Theramore, Farstrider Lodge, Quel'danil, and Quel'lithien.

Nah, you are just a Belfshitter

this
Warcraft was amazing.
I literally spend hours just reading the lore of all the million factions and events.

Even the thought that you and your group of handful jolly adventurers go out and just kill characters like Arthas is completely revolting.

Taking an expedition of 40 people and killing a weakened fire elemental like Ragnaros is a billion times more believable and easier to believe than *yet again* saving the world from big baddy #4398, that is stronger than anything the world has seen before.

Completely ignoring, that they fucked up tons of mainline story characters.

I hate Blizzard so god damn much for it.
Diablo 3, while being horrible wasn't a 10th as bad as what they did to Warcraft.
I am so damn mad and will stay mad forever.

He's a boss in BC my dude, run ML sometime.

No, they aided the alliance in the first and second wars.

It would be great if blizzard let us vote on what new content we wanted, and more importantly what we didnt want. This could be done through a blizzard app voting system that only allowed active subscriber accounts to vote. This would hopefully prevent vote manipulation.

Garithos did nothing wrong

Then where the fuck have they been?

>lfd, high elves and shamans and paladins on both factions get added
God no

I always liked the idea that Hakkar was what broke out from inside the gates.

95% of them are dead, 4% of them followed Kael and Illidan

Retail trannies would do their best to turn classic into retail if that was the case. They'd just majority vote all the cancerous qol shit that turned the game into a single player experience.

They were in Wrath, MoP, and Legion p extensively.

Silver Covenant was a major rep faction and narrative player in wrath- they hosted the Alliance forces in Dalaran. They reprised this role in MoP with the Throne of Thunder area. In Legion they make up a portion of the Alliance's forces dedicated to assaulting Suramar. In BFA they can be seen in various roles such as the shield mages on the 7th Legion Airship for Stromgarde.

Outside of expansion specific stuff they have the Quel'danil Lodge in Hinterlands.

>remove useless stats from gear to make it more suitable to the classes that would consider using it
>suddenly all gear has the same stat despite multiple stats not being useless and needing to be balanced relative to each other in different ways for different classes
muh false dichotomy

>>releasing Classic is the first step of a big scheme of things
yes cause blizzard scheme from cataclysm and on was on point...

Those weren't stat budgeting problems: those were raid design problems. Warlocks had the Fire-stone summonable to help them with melee; many of their Cloth items had STR+ for that purpose. Pre-release, gameplay footage showed Cloth-classes doing melee, it was supposed to be a general option for some of them. Shaman could tank many non-raid instances, had abilities for it and benefitted from STR+ too. 90%+ of the game was not designed with raiding in mind.

All builds were possible, but the raid culture which Pardo, Kaplan and Chilton brought from Everquest encouraged min/maxing. That meant character customisation based on how the individual player prefers to play had to be replaced by specs based on what activity you were doing: which is why 'raid specs' are often exclusive and don't function in the rest of the game. They wouldn't enable classes to escape pigeon-holed raid roles until TBC when talents and gear-design made a huge left-turn, in order to encourage more people to raid because so few did.

Make the area north of Stormwind a Ice Troll area, add a Red dragonkin area for Twilight Highlands. Instead of raids, make "Mega" Dungeons like Kara revamp or Mechagon.

I think the majority of the classic community is against that.

Why would the classic community be against helves on the alliance

you mean 15 or 20 mans?

That's fucking retarded, Stormwind is barely north of the equator, having snow there is stupid.

okay dumbass, Look at phase 1-6. You notice how it goes from tier 1 to 2 to 3. Phase 7 would be a new raid or other level 60 content, not "make a high elf".

Classic+ isnt an xpac. Its just a phase 7.

Get the fuck out of the thread because your head is so far up your own dilated ass vag that it's pointless to explain this to you. you just hear "new content" and take out a list things you wanna erp as.

If Classic ends up being a continual success and we get Classic+, what would the Lore be? Would this technically be some kind of stable side-timeline or what?

Why are you so mad for another alliance pretty race, you cuck? lmao

Not even an elf fag, but giving high elves to the alliance wouldn’t be a bad idea.
>pretty faction gets another pretty race
>this prevents the horde from being populated by majority elf faggots, keeping its soul intact
>also prevents paladins from being added to the horde
>still allows for Quel’thalas to be added as a zone, albeit different from its TBC iteration (preferably as an undead-controller zone)
And in return either give the Horde either goblins + undermine, or ogres + their own zone

because no one gives a shit about your paladin

>you will never play a vanilla Necromancer

Just say stuff was happening on Azeroth while shit was going on in Outland and Northrend. Keep it small-scale.

It would probably be treated as a what-if scenario

>hordecuck only has paladins living in his head rentfree
KING'S HONOR, FRIEND

Divergent timeline.
>Release TBC
>Change things slightly, Kael'thas never dies, change up the way Black Temple is handled
>Wrath releases
>Beat Arthas
>His father's ghost appears
>Tyrion realizes it's actually Yogg Saron fucking with us
>Bolvar never puts on the helm
>New expansion where the "big bad" is swarms of wild undead and Liches trying to become the new Lich King in a massive free for all

Forgot to add
>give male high elves their model from the tbc beta instead of the one we actually got

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15 man dungeons.
Tell that to Blizzard, that whole area is snow capped mountains in Vanilla, shaman far sight shows this.

The idea of classic+ isnt to retcon expansions, its just an extra raid

Revenge of the Mongrel Horde, Blizz has been setting it up for years.

It should, the expansions deserve to be retconned.

then make your own game with your own fanfiction

Let them rot on a containment server then, most people will eventually want classic+ or TBC.

Shaman could tank with limitations, except for raids. The LoS-trio(Pardo, Kaplan, Chilton) couldn't completely undo the class-designs that had been set in stone over two years before release; that would have to come with the first expansion. They had every opportunity to make Paladins more offensive and Shaman more defensive, but the themes set for them were 'a spiritual leader hybrid-class focused on defense' for Paladin and 'a spiritual leader hybrid-class focused on offense' for Shaman; both shoved into the healer-role in the Everquest-derived raid design. Classes were not designed for this, hence why the raids in Vanilla had to be so basic. The classes weren't designed for divisions of labour, but individually diverse adventuring.

When it was announced that each faction would be getting the others leadership-class for the first expansion, the fear was the loss of uniqueness because they had such over-lap of roles. Shaman players feared it the worst because their class review had been so badly handled, most of the knowledgeable class forum posters had been banned for protesting it. Shaman permanently lost the ability to tank in any content beyond Vanilla, because now Paladins could do it much better than before.

How as in lore? Bronze dragons, i ain't gotta explain shit
How as in company policy-wise? If it makes money blizzard literally do not care what they do

I don't mind the variety of healers, not to mention all 3 hybrid classes are great at burst damage in PVP

Classic + isnt an alternative timeline. It is not a retcon. It is not an expansion. it is not an introduction of new races. It's just phase 7. It's just a new raid and maybe a new zone. That's all.

How about we get the timeline where Garrosh doesn't get thrown under a fucking bus.

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BFA is building off past mistakes and its shitty changes are failed attempts to address the 'spot fires' the other poster mentioned
It's not a hard reboot, or a clean slate, or anything like that. It's not necessarily a case of the devs just being straight up incompetent. It's mostly the toxic corporate objectives of Activision-Blizzard to squeeze revenue out of a declining subscriber base.
Who knows what the WoW team could do with a ground-up rebuilt new WoW. Maybe they're all retarded, but there's a fuckton of institutional experience built up at Blizzard, which counts for something certainly.
Though the Diablo 3 team shitting on the director of Diablo 1-2 is disheartening

What else did anyone expect when Blizzard let degenerate poopsockers design their MMO? Before TBC and to a lesser extent Activision decided on the game's design path it always felt like it was stuck in a weird halfway point between a modern accessible Diablo-esque drop-in drop-out co-op game and an intentionally punishing and limited old-style RPG. You can literally feel the influence of both hardcore jaded Everquest fans and actual sane developers.

How can you say what it is or isn't? It doesn't actually exist retard

its not blizzard anymore, its activision.

our best chance at a good MMO is an expansion of classic because at least we have rules on what they cant do there. They cant do dailies, or LFG, or mount collection, or what sucks about retail.

as long as we have the "classic" brand, we dont have to be "accessible"

because there will be TBC and Wotlk Servers too. You cant retcon TBC and then offer TBC at the same time.

Yeah I'm sure they went through all this just so they can have the moral high ground. Lets spend money on a product that we are not only confident will crash and burn but actively rooting for it to do so just so we can finger wag our customers.

>because there will be TBC and Wotlk Servers too
lol yeah ok
Or, instead of fragmenting the player base, they just repackage TBC/wrath content into "classic+", charge everyone for it as "classic expansion packs" and call it a day. No one has room to complain because they'll run opinion polls where they win a large majority. Since the only options will be that or nothing.

My point was that if in the hypothetical scenario that Activision HQ decided to give their subsidiaries more freedom and a budget for WoW2, it wouldn't necessary be atrocious.
If everything stayed the same yeah it would be cancer.
But the hope is a financially successful Classic release might knock at least a touch of sense into A-B.

This sounds great

I want more PvP content, not just battlegrounds, but I want better reeards for raiding an enemy town, rewards for killing an enemy leader, PvP objectives that actually impact the game somehow, maybe similar to the War Effort event where killing enemy faction people gave you rewards and shit

remove all carebear protections from the game (at least on PvP servers)

I don't agree with most of these especially in gearing, timing and lack of karazhan. I'd say if Classic wow was to add so much extra shit they would need to expand the mechanical depth of the game. Either by prestige classes, increasing the level cap by 2-3 levels with extra spells and talents, particularly gating those levels behind heavy amounts of end game content or time but also not increasing the advantage to those of a higher level by much. Having that many new zones with gear as the only incentive seems mediocre.

The idea of prestige class quests and new class unlocks in the later zones would be pretty cool. The appeal of classic+ would be more about making the game have an insane level of depth instead of just doing everything they've already done with a lvl 60 cap.
I can see a game where you unlock an additional specialisation as a warlock in outland or additional talents for druids in hyjal/emerald dream. Expanding upon the class/faction difference by giving horde death knights and alliance spellbreakers.

I'd say it's very unrealistic though. Blizzard/activision siphoned all the money from subscriptions away from content development a long time ago to make other games or content you would have to pay for anyway.

Do you not believe me that they're going to make Classic+ AND also make TBC on separate servers?

Nobody wants TBC except paladins.

Note the words you just used 'variety', of healers. 'Healers' is an umbrella-term; there is variety within it, but outside of it there is only tanks and DPS. With this framing, 9 classes have just been reduced for all practical purposes to just 3 when raiding.

Pardo and co did not design most of the game; they took charge of the project later and inserted raiding, which imports the Everquest model of tanks-healers-DPS that no one asked for. Raiding is a bizarre thing to have in WoW, but it has become normalised by successive expansions and though changes were iterative, they were usually very radical conceptually. A few changes to itemisation is all it took for Shaman to never be able to tank anything beyond lvl 60, as Blizzard solidified the concept of tanks just being tanks, not there being degrees of 'soft-tank' and 'hard-tank'; describing what someone is doing rather than what they are.

playing a paladin is a mental illness

I don't want tbc, but I do want some of the spells and talents as a rogue/mage player

I don't think they're gonna make classic+. More likely is they redesign live to make it more like classic in a coming expansion.

yeah, I don't think they'll make TBC servers. It's redundant. The amount of people who'd sub for classic but not retail is very large. The amount of people who'd sub for TBC, but not classic or retail, is not so large. It wouldn't make sense to start an entire new initiative to develop WoW TBC servers, and then not have any of that content available for the vast majority of players. Better off just modernizing the TBC content then repackaging it into a Classic expansion.

Besides, most of what people like from TBC is game balance changes anyway. TBC dungeons and raids are mostly shit. They can just balance the game properly in later phases and re-releasing TBC won't be necessary.

the games balanced enough, it doesnt require any more balance.

Proper ugly cuntfaced wc3 draenei and murlocs, playable in either faction

then play TBC for those spells. dont shit up classic with it.

they said they were doing TBC already in a classicast interview.

>the games balanced enough, it doesnt require any more balance.
not sure if you're serious but think about it this way m8
There are entire specs that simply don't function. They're useless. melee hunters for example are just garbage. Specs not being perfectly balanced is one thing, entire slices of the game content being pointless is another.

Paladins don't have a taunt.

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They already said implementing TBC and WotLK would be easy with the groundwork already done with classic. We'll get them eventually, then they'll open up classic-only servers for people to transfer to and/or open new classic servers for people who want another fresh run.

I don't like tbc, outland sucks.

>15 man dungeons.
This has been my most ideal/wanted size since forever. Although I feel like for it to work they'd need to make dual spec a thing at least.

Anyone got the comic where someone demands a TBC server and the boomer just wants Classic +?

And then the someone starts raging that zoomer want a Wrath and Panda server?

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>TBC and Wrath
Ewwwwwwww

The only thing that truly needs fixing in vanilla is Warrior. Too overtuned, just gut fury DPS, and the class should be on par with the rest. Warrior faggots love telling hybrid snowflakes that they shouldn't be able to do everything, yet Warrior is the only class capable of doing more than 1 role at the top tier. Warrior DPS being anywhere near top tier is an absolute joke, considering their monopoly on an entire role.

Thanks, bro.

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>just nerf the only class that can do multiple roles
>instead of buffing the ones that can't
Please never make a game

TBC did more damage than Wrath, don't @ me

Classic+ will fail because both the community and Blizzard devs are subhuman redditors. Our only hope is continuation into TBC, which they cannot fuck up. Well, they will obviously eventually fuck it up by going into the abortion that was WotLK, but at least for the duration of TBC will WoW be good again.

Eh, I wouldn't cry if fury was taken down to about enhancement shaman levels. Rogues deserve to be top dps since that's all they can do.

Kill yourself, fembelf faggot

its true.

...

lore or mechanics? If lore, I ask what damage did Wrath really do?

seething pruned deadweight

The plot between IF and SW is actually sea but Blizzard fucked it up and well its just land.
>Also Stormwind Harbor never ever.

ruined the forsaken for one thing

flying, ruining unique classes

Do any old raid logs exist to give us an idea of the difference in dps all the specs are capable of in classic?

My post was a direct reference to that image, hence the part about it being fucked up with WotLK eventually.
Literally everything involving Lich King, for starters.

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> bring on the pands
Actually based zoomer. Going straight to pandaland and skiping cata entirely is a very good idea.

Reading this thread made me mad

Fuck all you convenience-demanding and immersion breaking cunts

You should all be ashamed of yourselves

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I want goblins.

My only problem with this is that level 60 plaeyrs with phase 13 gear would one shot everything and everyone in PvP.

>muh high elves
kill yourself you subhuman piece of shit
slit your throat already
no one will miss you

I’d like an end game raid for example in Caverns of Time where the players get trapped until they kill the boss. Equipment doesn’t deteriorate, just endless cycle of death and rebirth until they succeed. In order to activate the time portal to return back to Kalimdor, they need to sacrifice a player. What I mean by sacrifice is that the player character is deleted.

play retail.

ok you go first

This thread is a testament to why Classic+ wont work.

All these morons demanding more raids, convenience and content which destroys both the world and all the previous content in the game.

it'll work when 90% of suggestions get voted down

>destroys both the world and all the previous content in the game.
But this could have been said since version 1.0. Every time a new raids was introduced, this happened, all the way to 1.12

no, that's why it will work.
nochanges-fags like you are an extremely vocal minority. It's the same as how OSRS was. There was a very small subset of players who were VERY autistically furious about not having any changes. Then they polled the players and lots of changes were actually highly popular.
Blizz will do the same thing. It's why classic exists in the first place, OSRS proved the polling model can work for MMO remakes and that's what changed their mind about rereleasing vanilla.

FFS they can do both. They already said TBC and WotLK are easy to do, they can release them as-is and do classic+ for people who want something else.

Yeah, but Retailfags are fucking awful with their ideas

High Elves always made more sense than Goblins.

Which is why raids have no place in MMOs. The best end game events Blizz had were AQ and the Scourge event.

>If you're not with us you're against us
No, your ideas are just stupid, and led to retail, the exact thing you are running from.

>classic+ shouldnt have content

I dont think there should be any balancing or QoL changes, just a couple new zones and dungeons for more naxx equivalent gear

This. We need tokens and LGBT parades like OSRS

That’s the thing, new MMO’s have no sense of danger or loss, with this, you’d bring back that proper atmosphere. Hell, make it 5 player sacrifices so you couldn’t just bring a naked dummy there to be the token lamb. Make the game actually feel alive by making death meaningful.

>No, your ideas are just stupid, and led to retail, the exact thing you are running from.
Right, that's what you believe, and the people who think like you are a very vocal minority. Polls will prove it so this discussion doesn't really matter I guess

>classic+ shouldnt have content which destroys both the world and all the previous content in the game.
Use the rest of the sentence

I didnt say no changes or content, just that there are too many people who dont grasp that their changes have lasting impacts on every part of WoW and will destroy it like TBC/Wrath/Cata did.

my only real question about this stuff is whats gonna blizz do about graphics? intentionally make everything shitty? just seems odd to me

>and the people who think like you are a very vocal minority.
That must be why we're getting as close to vanilla as Blizzard can do.

If you love your raid infested gear treadmill so much stay in retail. Discussion over.

yeah, use the same assets or make new assets in the same style.

since this is the classic+ thread give me your ogre ideas for how they would work as a playable race

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>nochanges-fags like you are an extremely vocal minority. It's the same as how OSRS was. There was a very small subset of players who were VERY autistically furious about not having any changes.
He didnt say no changes, he said no world breaking or ruining changes.

I can tell you're the same fag who wants duel spec and heirlooms with some LFG sprinkled in to ruin everything.

What would you suggest for Classic+ content

This is unfortunately the most likely scenario, instead of Classic+.

The problem with it is that whilst going back to a facsimile of the original WoW(on this point it is true, you can never go home) reveals the world of possibilities that existed at the time and were denied by road chosen, TBC and beyond IS the road that was chosen. What came afterwards was inevitable because Jeff 'Tigole' Kaplan was project lead and along with his Everquest pals, they wanted to make Raid of Raidcraft: The Raiding Raid. It was a cul-de-sac where anything that wasn't raiding was nudging players towards raiding and conditioning them for raiding. It meant that content updates between expansions always felt like 'more of the same' because that is all it actually was most of the time. The only possibilities that exist in TBC, is an improved TBC in WoTLK and because WoTLK was such a perfected form of TBC that couldn't be improved on, all Cata could do was fuck everything up.

Playable ogres would make me switch to horde

One of their "face" options gives you two heads and your voice lines will mix and match between two voices.

IM GONNA SAY SOMETHING IM GONNA MISS FROM RETAIL AND YOU CANT STOP ME! I actually really enjoyed pet battling and im gonna be a tad sad im not gonna be doing it in classic.

They said they would do Classic+ if we asked for it.

haha go back to retail

im just doing this to start massive shitposting about the dual class shit they always try to do with the two headed ogres but i think there should be mage/warlock playable for ogre but they're the only 2 that get 2 heads

I mean. I can do both... I think it would be kind of fun to do some pet battles while waiting around.

I think the better question would be how can you add content without causing damage to the character or immersion of the world.

But just as an example there is no reason why new races could not be added like Goblins, ogres, other elves ect. A new starting zone doesn't detract from other starting zones, and new races wont interfere in the leveling experience with other players.

That's still raid-logic. It was the raids that needed re-designing, not the classes. There should never have been absolutes in terms of tank = tank and healer = healer, but degrees of hard and soft roles situationally so that classes performed exactly how they did in the rest of the game. When the classes were 'buffed' so that they could pick more than 1 of the only 3 recognised roles in the Everquest holy trinity, it solidified those roles across the entire spectrum of gameplay where as in Vanilla they were at least confined to raiding.

Just play pokemon on an emulator you homo.

>the problem with WoW is that it became too focused on raiding
so what do you want the focus to be instead

>The only thing that truly needs fixing in vanilla is Warrior. Too overtuned, just gut fury DPS, and the class should be on par with the rest.
Take off your raid goggles. If you just stop and look at every class with access to everything at 60 in raids, you completely ruin your objectivity as to the class balance. World of Warcraft includes everything from 1 to 60, it isnt just about god damn raids.

youtube.com/watch?v=L77uPm5cuTo&t=1h10m8s
In this interview John Staas said they didn't add ogres because they couldn't make females attractive enough for people to play. Now that musclegirls are popular maybe there is a market for it.

>you can play a mage or warlock as an ogre
>but they're actually one of two heads, and you have to share control with another player

'They' also claimed Karazhan was the most-played instance during TBC and that was why they invested every available resource into PvE raids at the expense of other possibilities. Watch as they redefined what 'Classic+' means too. They've already compromised on 'nochange' for non-technical reasons.

We might end up getting a 'good' result in the end, but not if we give ground easily.

Timestamp at 1:10:08

Musclegirls are popular, but the Kul Tirans clearly show they can't do it.

Now Mok'nathal, they have a chance.

Yes, we need another major city that no one will ever visit. thats what the people really want.

Thats the thing, players were never focused on raiding it was just Blizzard which made it the focus. People spent more time and enjoyed leveling more than raiding by far. They also really enjoyed world events like AQ and the Scourge. Even unintended events like the corrupt blood. You dont HAVE to force people into raids. OSRS doesnt have an endgame at all. EvE online doesn't have one either. This idea of gear treadmill and the pursuit of bigger stats is entirely a Blizzard invention they force on themselves.

Add in new races. Add in new gear to flesh out certain builds, for example you could try adding gear making paladins more viable as tanks while leveling. Add in new leveling zones, why not think about making them more dynamic rather than static with ongoing events like GW2 has, you can then mix in wPvP as well so its a Alliance v Horde v PvE zone for leveling.

Once you stop caring and looking at raids you have infinite possibilities for other types of content.

go back to retail

the best part of classic is that they never tell you what to focus on

the classic community just won the LFG war, we can control classic+

>new race = new starter city
lmao

Did you really think using a strawman would prove your point?

Read the reply chain moron.

The problem with leveling is that it's finite content. What happens when you're eventually done with it? Even the biggest casual will reach max level eventually. What then?

Just keep ogres male only. Problem solved.

Then do raid content up to Naxxramas or pvp

You partake in leveling a different character, world events, or horizontal game features.

You can add to these by adding new characters/zones, adding in new events like AQ.

You also accept that video games get boring and die. There is no reason why an MMO 'needs' to have infinite content.

>What happens when you're eventually done with it?
You play another game.
Yes, shocking, I know.
But not everything is meant to be extended forever and ever and ever until it's a fucking bloated corpse shambling along. Retail is proof enough of that.
The WoW model is inherently one of laziness, where the developers put out the bare minimum amount of content to keep players subscribed to a single game for years on end, enticing them through the sunk-cost fallacy, rather than actually innovating and developing a new game.
MMOs can't live forever. Not in the same form anyway. They invariably degenerate.

>What happens when you're eventually done with it?
This logic doesnt work when you keep adding content either. Why should I play the newest expansion? Another one will come out and make it all redundant soon anyway.

You know what I would play, steal EvEs ownership mechanics for space and use it in WoW on a new landmass. Make wPvP a perpetual battle over something more important than your rank.

Imagine if you could do get the Pladins for Horde and Shamans for Alliance
After you do expensive and long quest chain that needs a lot quest items from 40man raids and etc

The LFG addon that had all the LARPers spazzing out is wholly inconsequential - it's literally the replica of the TBC system, a system literally no one ever even ironically claimed encouraged asociality or whatever it is you bandwagoning zoomers believe it will. If anything, it's the sign that Classic+ will fail miserably, because it showed that both the vast majority of the community and vast majority of Blizzars devs working on Classic are all literal wrathbabies LARPing as vanilla vets.

Sounds like Archeage. That would actually be fucking great

No

Fuck off

What is this "wrathbabbies" meme? WoW lost subs over the course of Wrath, the vast majority of players joined during vanilla or TBC. Why do people act like there was this giant flood of casuals when actually the flood happened during vanilla and BC? WoW was always a casual game anyway.

>Blizzard made the mistake on focusing on raiding to keep the game alive.
>So what would you have done instead?
>Nothing, I would have left the game to die.
???????

>LFG,but without the teleporting to the dungeon and cross-realm bullshit

Good idea,Y/N?

Yes it would be cool. A ture Hero Race quest chain with a similar way as Legendary quests.

no

People will get clearer ideas when they see what WoW looks like without so many Skinner-boxes. The original game had so many hooks for development. Some such as Gilneas eventually got used, then wasted for flashy but throw-away segments intended to replace the quiet and reflective levelling experience with noise. Others, like the obvious gaps in crafting branches never got filled-in, just paved over.

One very popular discussion back in 2006 focused on the world being static, how nothing ever changed no matter what players did. You couldn't change who owned what territory, unlocking new quests in the process. A few 'raids' done on enemy capitals were for lulz as there was no important reward for doing so, but there could have been, to encourage serious attempts at it. The devs seem to have misunderstood completely and partially cited this as justification for Cata's zone changes.

Yes, unironically yes. I would have taken devs off the game and let it continue in a managed decline, maybe with small balance patches, and immediately began work on Warcraft 4.

>ruins faction identity for his fucking retarded everyone can be everything shit
Seriously

Fuck off

no, and i'll tell you why. When you dont have a LFG addon, your left on your own to find people to do dungeons with. youre forced to make friends. it'll be good for you, faggot.

>We shouldn't be killing Kealthas, Illidan, KJ, Arthas or sho the fuck knows what they let the players kill now.
Totally. This is why classic was superior, because raid bosses weren't like that! The leader of the Black Dragons, the elemental Fire Lord, a fucking Old God - these were REAL, sensible raid boses.

Did idiot read? It would be a lengthy one so servers can only have 10-20 of them rather than every one getting the chance.

>needing to open LFG chat ever
Just play with your friends retard

Because a shitton of people who started playing in vanilla and TBC quit and were replaced by new players who started in WotLK. Just look at fucking Yea Forums, every other day you have a literal wrathbaby talking about how hard Cata heroics were on release. People who say that sort of stuff have clearly never done a single TBC heroic, ever. And no, WoW sub numbers in WotLK were higher than in either TBC or vanilla at their own peaks for pretty much the entirety of WotLK.

No. Its a magic UI element that does all the work for you.

Bulletin boards. Each dungeon will now have a bulletin board in a nearby town or location, you can place an advertisement up on the board which shows your level/class but not your role and which dungeon you want to do. Players can accept it on the board and you will be added to the party. I say no role because it doesnt matter from 1 to 60 that much if its a paladin/warrior/druid tanking and non-meta parties should be promoted not frowned upon.

Firstly, this creates a focus point in the world for players to meet up, morose than just the meeting stones no one uses. Second its not just some magic UI element you pull out of your ass, its an actual thing in the world which makes sense.

>b-but it's epic and long
Like my fucking dick being smeared with your shit idea and fucking your mom's throat with it

>Originally, there was going to be a huge quest line where Warlock Players needed to perform a global collection effort to rebuild Medivh's spellbook and perform a group ritual to open the Dark Portal while players on the server protected them from enemy attacks.

>However, that idea didn't get very far after they saw what a world-changing event caused on the server in Silithus. It was an amazing effort, but ultimately, wasn't a show everyone could enjoy.
Karazhan, Emerald Dream and Hyjal was skipped just because Blizzard thought there is already enough high-level zones. Well, Emerald Dream also sucked as full green zone.

No its a cool idea you puritinian shitbag

I don't care about winning a battle as much as I do how it was won. What one side uses justifies others using it. I lean towards No for LFG addons replicating later game features, but the reasoning given for the decision is flawed even if the decision was for the best. It needed a better reason than 'person with X addon uses X to interact with others using X', because role-players DID have such addons not long after launch, to indicate 'in character' status so interactions aren't hit and miss.

how about if you dont want to be in character then dont play your RP server toon

But they can be recreated.

You'd need to have Blizzard ban 99% of the RP server population then. But yeah I unironically think it would be a good idea.

Go back to Retail. You can roll a Male Tauren Paladin that fulfills your epic fantasy.

eat my shit. Having vanilla with limited Shamans or Paladins in Factionwide would make things different

You said demons - DEMONS not Dreadlords, ALL DEMONS - regenerating in the nether was the "old lore", and don't you dare fucking say you somehow meant "Dreadlords" by "Demons" because you were specifically talking about a pit lord, Magtheridon. All demons regenerating in the nether is not the "old lore", it's the current lore and it's shit, and you were fucking wrong. Apologize to the entire thread and never reply to me again for the rest of your life.

Blizzard could have borrowed the best things from Everquest and EVE. They chose instead to entirely transplant Everquest and forget every other possibiity. WoW could have had a much more in-depth economic system, crafting, faction warfare(PvP in WoW was extremely popular despite the neglect it had), player-led political intrigues beyond the guild-leader's GF kicking the Shaman for wanting to DPS in MC. Player-created stuff generates unlimited incentives for continual play; it's more sustainable than a developer trying to keep the PvE raiding treadmill going.

All these were possibilities stretching out into the future in 2004-2006. They were dead by the time TBC rolled-in and the permanent direction of travel was chosen.

OP what the fuck?
I've been on this site for just shy of 10 years, and this, THIS shitty image I made in about 2 seconds, is the image thats gets reposted by another user.

Attached: what be dis.jpg (1788x1760, 953K)

shouldve circled more areas

>Dreadlords regenerate
Define old lore because this definitely isn't a Warcraft 3 thing, it was made up at some point in WoW, and it makes Warcraft 3 story completely senseless.

Emerald Dream makes me so mad. It's like vetoing Northrend because it would all be snow. You have all of nature to work with plus whatever random kickass bullshit you can come up with. It's just laziness.

>We can't have an Outland expansion, it would all be just flying red rocks and giant mushrooms

I thought so too at the time, I didn't like how many non-RPers were on RP servers, which made the RPFlag and FlagRSP addons necessary.

I realised though that there was a hidden symbiotic benefit: they were more mature than the average WoW player and the sheer number of them meant ass-hats got quickly ostracised and lost their guilds. Those were of course raiders, who depended on guilds. If only RPers were on RP server to start with, Blizz would not be able to keep up with tickets reporting ass-hats, who would flood in thanks to low queue times and make their own ass-hat raiding guilds. Non-RPers who were mature were a more favourable compromise that could be tolerated.

raiding should be an RP only experience

>ass-hats, who would flood in thanks to low queue times and make their own ass-hat raiding guilds
???
those people would just not play on the server in the first place like they avoided all the other low pop servers

I feel cheated. My thread only go 20 replies.