If everything after Fallout 2 didn't happen, what the perfect Fallout 3 have been like?

New Vegas handled the Van Buren ideas a lot better than the original conception IMO

Elijah > Presper
Big Empty > Boulderdome
Ulysses > ULYSSES/Presper
Bright Followers > The Reservation
REPCONN > Bloomfield Space Center
Mojave Brotherhood > Maxson Bunker

Van Buren didn't need reigning in.

New Vegas is a sequel to Van Buren. That's what the guy you're replying to is saying. Story-wise the events that would happen in Van Buren took place before New Vegas, like the Legion war and all the other shit.

Not all of it though obviously since in Van Buren canon the NCR was out east as far as Utah and Colorado.

The interplay fallout 4 wouldn't have had the NCR at all. It would have been a battle of the sexes between the Legion for men and some weird tribal witches for women (with enslaved snake men as the soldiers)

Technically the Reservation is still canon. Graham mentions it in Honest Hearts.

I dunno, as I recall from the outline you fight a crazed scientist who you eventually have defeat on a his fucking orbital space station. I prefer when that sort of stuff is left for random encounters rather than being fully integrated into the plot.

It would have just been a clone of FO1 in the same way 4 was a clone of 3. A game series should not go past two installments without drastic mechanical redesign.

Breh that's the Ouroborous storyline that was in VB.

It's not "his" station. It's an Old World millitary station that he spends the entire game working on making his way up to. Villain wise he was basically a less developed/early version of Elijah.

The idea of the finale being in space is kinda buckwild but its not a total shark jump considering the context.

Sounds infinitely better than Mothership Zeta

That bad?

Fair enough, some details about the plot are a bit hazy in my mind. I stand by the statement that I wouldn't want the finale to take place in space, but I can see it wasn't as out there as I'd initially remembered.

I guess it would've been ok if development on Van Buren continued and ultimately finished. The Fallout formula was right, just further improvements and neat little additions I guess

>Presper
Such a badass antagonist's name. It's a shame we'll never witness Van Buren as a full game.

>I stand by the statement that I wouldn't want the finale to take place in space

Why? I think if handled correctly it would be great. The idea of showing the old world was at the cusp of a space age and had the potential that was never utilized, and is now decaying remains that could only be used for further destroying an already obliterated wasteland would be really neat.

Caesars Legion were hardly in Van Buren. There was gonna be like 3 dudes in radiation suits at the ghoul city and a handful of scouts throughout the game alluding to something in the future.

Yeah and the illusion to the future would have been an NCR/Legion war, not between the Legion and Hecate.

Van Buren without retarded whacky shit like the lost NCR colony on Hoover Dam

the NCR was basically on it's last legs in Van Buren because of the war with the Brotherhood. The city on the damn dam was one of their last bastions.

the exploration isn't even good. there are next to no locations that actually feel unique. next to no unique loot. any lore a location might have is rendered useless by F3 being the shittiest display of Bethesda's already shitty writing.

Yeah and one of the VB subplots would be about helping establish a trade network with the four-corners wasteland and the NCR. The NCR was hurt but not done.

I like all the fallouts. Even 4. Not 76 that doesnt count. Look 3 isnt perfect but its a hell of a lot better than what van buren was going to be.

>but its a hell of a lot better than what van buren was going to be.

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Van Buren was visually a major downgrade from the first two. Plus, given that it allegedly would've ended with you fighting with an deranged mad scientist on a space station, I think we might've dodged a bullet here.

>Look 3 isnt perfect but its a hell of a lot better than what van buren was going to be.
Certainly

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Either New Vegas or something else. Bethesda fucked the lore, the lore is important, and retconning just to make cash is like injecting cancer cells to a newborn baby.

>muh graphics
>in fucking fallout

k

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Wouldn't exist because Van Buren was destined to be garbage, probably just as bad as 3.

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Fallout 1 and 2 looked really good, though.

Fallout 3 would have literally been the same shit and even the same isometric perspective only with shittier "realistic" 3D graphics. At that point it would have been three games of the same shit and would have felt extremely derivative at that point since they already did two other games in that style. It would have likely got low reviews and would even have gotten compared to better RPG like Knights of the Old Republic and Morrowind. People would have shat all over its inferior 3D graphics and outdated isometric gameplay.

it would have been another cult hit that barely anyone remembers and we would be currently waiting for a unity port or some shit

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO IT LOOKED WORSE THEREFORE IT IS WORSE,
kill yourself actual underage holy shit

I'd say they looked decent not really good.

Based.

Fallout 3 single handedly saved the franchise and turned that shitty isometric (((rpg))) into something people actually wanted to play. It's ironic that NVfags shit all over it yet without Fallout 3 there would literally be no New Vegas and most of them would have never even given a shit about the franchise because even they know it was always shit.

>outdated isometric gameplay.

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>Based.
>Fallout 3 single handedly saved the franchise and turned that shitty isometric (((rpg))) into something people actually wanted to play. It's ironic that NVfags shit all over it yet without Fallout 3 there would literally be no New Vegas and most of them would have never even given a shit about the franchise because even they know it was always shit.

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Are you slow or something? The graphics are one thing, but if the supposed space.(which would've been a thousand time worse than Bethesda's)ending was any indication it would've been shit.

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> it would've been shit.

Why?

You saying it isn't true? By the time the early 2000's came rolling in for the most part developers stopped making those type of games and it is no coincidence that WRPG started to rise after they abandoned the old ways. MMORPG were starting to really take off huge at this point to. Once WOW released in 04 or whatever it was big enough that it even got a South Park episode about it.

Fallout had to make the gameplay changes it did to survive. The problem isn't that it's an FPS/RPG hybrid, the problem is that Bethesda can't write.

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>that WRPG started to rise after they abandoned the old ways

Why has there been a renaissance of isometric RPGs in the 2010s then?

Besides, Van Buren would have featured real-time combat.

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>what the perfect Fallout 3 have been like?
Underrail.

>Why has there been a renaissance of isometric RPGs in the 2010s then?

This is the decade of the rise of the nostalgiafag. Most that grew up with vidya grew up with it as kids in the 90's and then entered teen-adulthood in the 00's years. A lot of the new faces even making games today grew up being fans as kids from the 90's era. It is also no coincidence that this whole console gen has seen remaster after remake after remaster after remake. Even the fucking Intellivision is trying to make a comeback. The era of the nostalgiafag is strong in these last years.

>The era of the nostalgiafag is strong in these last years.

And yet many if not most of the new isometric RPGs have been great anyway. Nice try but you aren't going to handwave the fact that isometric RPGs are provably not outdated as a format.

This. It's the same reason Superman comics went to shit during the 1970s, because the old guard were gone and all the new writers were fans who grew up on him in the 50s

In some cases its even sadder or worse. 343 developers did not even like Halo. In fact they hated it. Yet they are making the games now.

At least Bethesda developers seemed to be fans. Or so they claim.

>even they know it was always shit
Started with new vegas, still think the original fallout was the best in the series despite not really being into the whole isometric thing because just about everything else in the game is captivating and done extremely well. If fallout 2 had been more similar in fashion to its predecessor then the switch to 3d wouldn't even have been necessary and there would be significantly fewer retards in the fanbase.

Fallout 1 & 2 probably wouldn't have worked as 3D games, given how the map works in the classic games.

Don't forget this gem

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For me its weird. The combat is both good and bad. Its fun but after playing it enough that combat really gets repetitive, even irritating due to how it was designed. I think the biggest fault I have with it is how the agility stat works and how it makes or breaks the game. The damage and how its calculated also seems random so often. The gore while fun isn't perfect either but I won't fault it too much on that aspect.

so is the new plague still canon or what?

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Sure it could've. It's a lot like Kingdom Come: Deliverance's map.

The Reavers and the Calculator would have been pretty interesting parts of a real fallout RPG, if they hadn't been put in FOT.

The RNG is flat out stupid and retarded in classic Fallout.
The moment you get power armor, there is no reason why a 10mm SMG should ever be able to do more than a few hit points of damage against you, even if the enemy scores a critical hit against you. I can't count how many times I got one-shotted by burst fire SMG critical damage while wearing the best power armor in the game.

And don't tell me to raise Luck. My luck was 7 when this shit happened to me.

The rule should be that the only weapons that can harm a power-armored opponent are plasma weapons, explosive weapons, or the gauss guns in 2.

>to better RPG like Knights of the Old Republic
>outdated isometric gameplay
You have to be 18 to post here pal.

Based and psionicpilled

>New Vegas handled the Van Buren ideas a lot better than the original conception IMO
You don't have any clue of what you're talking about.

There were two versions of Van Buren: the original one, by Chris Avellone, and a later one, by Josh Sawyer, created after Avellone left Black Isle. Your post only lists the stuff of Sawyer's version.

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>It would have likely got low reviews and would even have gotten compared to better RPG like Knights of the Old Republic and Morrowind. People would have shat all over its inferior 3D graphics and outdated isometric gameplay.

Kotor and Morrowind have worse gameplay than your typical isometric RPG.

The Fallout wiki only lists Sawyer's contributions to Van Buren.
What happened to Avellone's version?

Lmaoing at beshitsda shills

F.E.V cures the new plague
Only a pre war human could die from it, but after so many years with no hosts it's most likely dead

I wonder if being an RPG with active time battle system with pausing would have worked much more in its favor. The agility stat and being turn based where you need a fucking 10 agility or remain gimped for the rest of your playthrough really messed the potential up.

>The agility stat and being turn based where you need a fucking 10 agility or remain gimped for the rest of your playthrough really messed the potential up.
They could have fixed that by making agility affect how far you can move with a single action point. That would still make agility a useful stat, but not THE most useful stat.

>meet president bad guy
>he a robot
>Int 10: but you're mean
>internal logic error detected
>president robot self destructs
then it dawned on me that the game was shit.

>You need to get into the death chamber to stop the world from exploding
>But Todd, two of my followers are immune to radition and it's not exactly rocket science you need to do in there
>It's your destiny :smiley face:

There should've been a deactivation/ self destruct code or something like that to make Eden blowing himself up not retarded.

>Enclave attacks water purification plant
>You escape with scientists
>Scientist lady screams at you WE NEED TO GET OUT FOLLOW ME WE'RE GOING TO BROTHERHOOD OF STEEL DONT QUESTION ME JSUT FOLLOW ORDERS

I just love open world games where you're reduced a walking tripod not a human being with agency who can make decisions that influence other NPCs.

But the AP was an issue to since it was tied to agility. Not sure but I guess it could have just been based on your level which would make a lot of sense. The higher you are leveled the more you can do. That or just a set amount of AP that cannot be changed. I don't know but agility really fucks the games up badly is what is for sure.

>Amata, I saved the vault but killed your father
>Get out! :(
>Amata, I saved the vault but didn't kill your father
>Get out. :s

>But the AP was an issue to since it was tied to agility.
You don't seem to have understood what I was saying.

Agility was an overpowered stat in Fallout because it gave you more action points, letting you attack more often.

However, my suggestion was that instead of affcting AP, agility should have affected how far you can move with a single AP. So for example, low agility, it could cost 2 AP to cross a certain distance, whereas with high agility it would only cost 1 AP to cross the same distance.

The moment when the Enclave takes over the water plant and kills your dad, it was prime opportunity for the story to really take off and have the player dictate the course of events for the rest of the main story.

Imagine instead of taking shelther with the BoS, you take the scientists to Little Lamplight or the Republic of Dave.

Yeah my mistake. The damage calculations would still be fucked too though. Like said earlier, getting power armor and then getting one shotted by SMG just seems wrong.

stop being a salty old faggot

do you think before posting and do you know that it's 2019, and that time passes and things you liked will become irrelevant and there's nothing you can do about it besides spout shitty buzzwords hoping to regain some kind of grasp on a culture that isn't worth preserving in the first place?

oh boy top down turn based combat with a grand total of EIGHT yes EIGHT voiced characters those were the days I tell you what

It's outdated you old fart, nobody uses it anymore and nobody wanted to use it in the first place. You fucking luddites just won't fuck off and grow up.

>Imagine instead of taking shelther with the BoS, you take the scientists to Little Lamplight or the Republic of Dave.
This makes no god damn sense in any manner.

The one we got with the broken steel stuff in the base game and another dlc to take its place.

The hate for this game from salty irrelevant gen-xers is worse than the star wars prequels. You're all retards repeating retarded memes spouted by retards years ago whose only complaints were that they couldn't be assed to pay attention when playing the game so that their precious little 90's game lore wasn't ruined.

You can find a self destruct code in Autumns office

Why the fuck would you do that? The critics of fallout 3 are some of the dumbest most obtuse people on the internet.

Ghouls, Mutants and Robots are too Godless to enter a Bible reference for the code.

At least some of the voice actors in Fallout 1 had talent.

I can feel your seething through text, Emil

You can fuck off and let them go on their own but they die, you stupid autist

More buzzwords. Get some new material you fucking retard.

and it could have had amazing graphics if all they animated was a small room, your point doesn't stand because there are quality voice actors in 3 and NV

>oh boy top down turn based combat with a grand total of EIGHT yes EIGHT voiced characters those were the days I tell you what
I agree, much better for an RPG series to actually be a fps with light survival elements and a voiced protagonist with the options of choosing to play as a retarded veteran or a retarded attorney in a region where no one has any motivation to either stay where they are or do the random evil shit they do.

>actors in 3
>actors

Liam Neeson is just one person, user.

More like Wasteland 2

ah moving the goalposts, another trademark of oldschool fallout fanboys

Are you retard on purpose?

>he wants to be spoonfed like a little baby

there are more and you probably haven't even played the game, like I assume most retarded critics haven't

3 had one good voice actor.
Everyone else was the same fucking dude.

Fucking how? The response above states why older games in the franchise are better than the newer ones. Do you think all arguments are examples of moving the goalpost?

>can't count how many times I got one-shotted by burst fire SMG critical damage while wearing the best power armor in the game.
That shit plinked off me doing almost no damage, I think youre confused and are remembering the enclave and mutants chain miniguns

We were talking about fallout 3. Can you fucking idiots make a point without being disingenuous twats?

You haven't made a single argument yet you dumb cunt.

Is there a place that lists absolutely everything about Van Buren?

Im amazed that nobody took all the information known about it and didnt make a full game in the Fallout 1/2 engine.

>Fallout 3 is a good RPG
>Fallout 3 is a bad RPG
>You've moved the goalposts
Not really.

There's a great series on YouTube by a guy called Retcon Raider where he breaks everything down area by area. It's incomplete but he's got most of it covered.

Several groups have tried, I believe

There were multiple high profile voice actors my dude

Yes I have, I'm picking apart the absolutely retarded and unfounded criticism of fallout 3.

>I agree, much better for an RPG series to actually be a fps with light survival elements and a voiced protagonist with the options of choosing to play as a retarded veteran or a retarded attorney in a region where no one has any motivation to either stay where they are or do the random evil shit they do

this is not fallout 3

I hate that Bethesda shit all over everything with their "LOL THE 50S ARE SO WACKY" stuff in Fallout 3 and now it wont go away.

They went totally overboard with it. Like some dumb fucking kid that didnt understand part of a joke.

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Pick this apart.
Dad killed himself rather than let his broken machine fall into the hands of people trying to fix it. As a result, a water purifier that has no reason to exist released radiation it shouldn't have, resulting in the death of Colonel Autumn, who shouldn't have been there. Then later we went through a village of children who fsdao gah oiwjerj lkjfappo so we could enter Vault 18 and recover a GECK, a device which would better be put to use in virtually any manner besides the one for which we acquired it. Then Colonel Autumn, who shouldn't be alive, captured us with a flash grenade that shouldn't have worked in a place he shouldn't have been able to reach, so he could stop us from fixing the machine he wanted fixed. He then tortured us for a code that didn't matter and that we had no reason not to give him. Then the president set us free to enact his plan that was of no benefit to anyone, ourselves least of all.

At the final battle, everyone in the world had the same goal: turn on the water purifier. Due to this overwhelming consensus, we were obliged to fight a massive war. Finally, Colonel Autumn gave his life to stop us from turning on the machine he was trying to turn on. At the end, the Enclave defeated themselves by sabotaging the machine they were trying to activate, causing it to explode even though it shouldn't, and obliging us to enter and die from radiation that shouldn't actually be lethal.

Not him but
>Dad killed himself rather than let his broken machine fall into the hands of people trying to fix it.
James killed himself to stop people who wanted to use the purifier as a weapon of genocide from commiting genocide.
>As a result, a water purifier that has no reason to exist released radiation it shouldn't have, resulting in the death of Colonel Autumn, who shouldn't have been there.
A. Autumn has every reason to be there given that its the Enclave's number one priority target, so he would be there to oversee its capture and occupation.
B. The purifier takes radiation out of the water, so all James had to do was vent it back into the control room, so it has every reason to release radiation.
C. The water purifier has every reason to exist, as we are told the radiation in the Capital Wasteland is uniquely pervasive, and isn't filterable by normal means.
>Then later we went through a village of children who fsdao gah oiwjerj lkjfappo
Whats the argument here?
>so we could enter Vault 18 and recover a GECK, a device which would better be put to use in virtually any manner besides the one for which we acquired it.
A. Its actually Vault 81
B. The Geck in Vault 81 is unstable, as told by both James and Braun. And we see it explodes and converts even human matter into plant matter if you turn it on, which would be terribly destructive.
>Then Colonel Autumn, who shouldn't be alive
He has every reason to be alive as we see him inject himself with some sort of drug before passing out, and the BoS tell us the Encalve have far more advanced anti-radiation tech then anyone else.
>captured us with a flash grenade that shouldn't have worked
A pulse grenade would have been able to shut down power armor, and disrupt the human nervous system.
>in a place he shouldn't have been able to reach,
He got in Vault 81 via the front door. If you go back into Vault 81 after escaping Raven Rock you can actually enter the room he came in from, and its Vault 81's entry.

>so he could stop us from fixing the machine he wanted fixed.
This ignores that Autumn wanted the purifier for himself, and letting you fix it gives you the chance to possibly sabotage it so that he can't use it, which would ruin his plans. Only a complete idiot would just let the player fix it in that situation, instead of doing it themselves.
>He then tortured us for a code that didn't matter
If you give him the wrong code, you can hear over the radio that it causes the radiation trap to spring, killing anyone in the Control room. Autumn has every reason to want the code so he doesn't have to kill all his men trying codes one at a time.
>and that we had no reason not to give him.
Besides the fact hes trying to take over the wasteland and force everyone under his rule... yeah, no reason at all.
>hen the president set us free to enact his plan that was of no benefit to anyone, ourselves least of all.
Eden set us free to fulfill the Enclave's plan they started back in Fallout 2, to purge the world of mutants so that pure humans can rebuild. That benefits the Enclave, and thus himself.
>At the final battle, everyone in the world had the same goal: turn on the water purifier.
At the final battle, everyone had a different goal
-Eden wanted to commit genocide
-Autumn wanted to take over the wasteland
-The BoS wanted to give the water out for free
>Due to this overwhelming consensus, we were obliged to fight a massive war
We fought one singular battle with less then 200 people. By no means was it massive, or even a war.
>Finally, Colonel Autumn gave his life to stop us from turning on the machine he was trying to turn on.
Colonel Autumn may or may not be killed depending on if you chose to spare him or not, and his actions were to stop someone trying to take away his ability to take over the wasteland.

>At the end, the Enclave defeated themselves by sabotaging the machine they were trying to activate
Actually, Maidson Li only speculates they may have sabotaged it, there is no proof that they did. She notes that most of the damage was from Prime throwing nukes around.
>causing it to explode even though it shouldn't
Given the sheer amount of water being pushed through that system, if the pressure can't release itself it makes sense most of the thing would explode from water pressure buildup, which would easily cause a chain reaction that causes the electrical components to explode as well.
>and obliging us to enter and die from radiation that shouldn't actually be lethal.
Why would the radiation not be lethal when radiation has been shown to be lethal throughout the game?

Everything about this post is 100% retarded.

This

>stop people who wanted to use the purifier as a weapon of genocide
Literally the only "person" who wants that is an AI who can be talked into suicide with a single sentence.
>we are told the radiation in the Capital Wasteland is uniquely pervasive, and isn't filterable by normal means
Then there shouldn't be people in the capital wasteland at all. It's a recurring problem in Bethesda fallouts that if a certain area has turned into an uninhabitable shithole there's not really a reason for people to stick around and not head to greener pastures.
>Whats the argument here?
A cave filled with inexplicably militarized children that sends adults to the wasteland needs a source for the children to be there in the first place, especially since it's been something like 200 years since the nuclear war.
>which would be terribly destructive
Or incredibly useful depending on where and how it's used, especially considering oasis is probably the only livable place in the wasteland without bethesda magic.
>disrupt the human nervous system
You're even more fucking retarded than the copypasta is.
>He got in Vault 81 via the front door
You mean the one with more radiation than the water filter ever had and a bunch of supermutants? Makes sense.
>letting you fix it gives you the chance
Yeah, god forbid people have meaningful player choice or the ability to reason with characters in a fucking RPG. It should all be combat hallways.
>Besides the fact hes trying to take over the wasteland and force everyone under his rule...
Pretty sure the PC has no way of knowing this and even if they did why should they give a shit other than spite for killing their deadbeat dad?
>that pure humans can rebuild
What pure humans? The vaults are all fubar and the PC knows that they're not from the vaults.
>everyone had a different goal
Not really, because everyone wanted the fucking water purifier turned on. It would make sense to turn it on and then have a conflict.

I think Fallout 3 would have worked a lot better as a prequel of Fallout 1.

>Literally the only "person" who wants that is an AI who can be talked into suicide with a single sentence.
James didn't know that. All he knows of the Enclave is what the BoS told him years ago. Autumn didn't like pull him aside and go "hey man, I'm secretly going to betray Eden because I think the genocide thing is dumb". Even if he did, James still wouldn't give him the purifier because he isn't going to let autumn use it to force people under his rule.
>It's a recurring problem in Bethesda fallouts that if a certain area has turned into an uninhabitable shithole there's not really a reason for people to stick around and not head to greener pastures.
You are aware that large scale migrations take an absolutely massive amount of resources to achieve? There is no way the people of the CW could pull that off.
>A cave filled with inexplicably militarized children that sends adults to the wasteland needs a source for the children to be there in the first place
There is nothing about them that's militarized, as they only have a handful of weapons.
>Or incredibly useful depending on where and how it's used, especially considering oasis is probably the only livable place in the wasteland without bethesda magic.
It would only be useful in creating the situation that was going to take place in Fallout Tactics 2, and BoS 2, where a runaway GECK created a large scale "forest" of death since it consumes everything living there.
>You're even more fucking retarded than the copypasta is.
So you have no actual argument?
>You mean the one with more radiation than the water filter ever had and a bunch of supermutants? Makes sense.
You mean the radiation that the Enclave has already shown itself to not be bothered by, and some super mutants they could easily mow down with their advanced plasma weaponry?

>Yeah, god forbid people have meaningful player choice or the ability to reason with characters in a fucking RPG. It should all be combat hallways.
What the fuck are you even on about? This has nothing to do with player choice at all... What you are suggesting is that Autumn be James bond villain level retarded for no reason.
>What pure humans?
The Enclave you retard.
>Not really, because everyone wanted the fucking water purifier turned on. It would make sense to turn it on and then have a conflict.
By this logic House, the NCR, Legion, and Yes Man, should have all agreed to turn on the giant robot army and THEN start fighting each other... Do you even fucking read what you write? It makes no god damn sense.

>Pretty sure the PC has no way of knowing this and even if they did why should they give a shit other than spite for killing their deadbeat dad?
If the PC has no way of knowing then then the PC has every reason to assume Autumn wants to do the genocide thing along with Eden, and he has even LESS reason to give Autumn the code at that point. autumn already made it clear he doesn't have good intentions for the prufier.

All the lol-wacky shit started with Fallout 2

>We fought one singular battle with less then 200 people
You then proceed to neutralize an entire AFB.
>his actions were to stop someone trying to take away his ability to take over the wasteland
Which is fucking retarded considering at this point the Enclave still had a fuckton of resources to retake the wasteland with.
>electrical components to explode as well
Processors aren't fucking TNT. Ever hear of someone's pipe bursting and then their house exploding because their outlets got wet?
>When radiation has been shown to be lethal throughout the game
I don't know, maybe the fact that you can easily hoard enough Rad-X and Rad-Away to last for long enough for the brotherhood to get through a door, I guess?
>James didn't know that
He didn't know about the genocide plan either.
>he isn't going to let autumn use it to force people under his rule
Why should he care so long as it means his life work is helping people? I mean he abandoned his own child and safe life for a shot at it, don't really see why he'd be opposed to someone else taking over as long as it worked
>You are aware that large scale migrations take an absolutely massive amount of resources to achieve?
You are aware that there are already trade caravans going around the wasteland and there's no reason why people couldn't follow them to wherever they get their goods from?
>There is nothing about them that's militarized
Yeah, threatening outsiders with lethal force until they agree to metaphorically suck your cock is totally normal considering literally no one else does that in the entire wasteland besides slaving raiders.
>GECK created a large scale "forest" of death
Sounds like something the enclave might have thought would be a good idea for the citadel or the BoS for raven rock.
>the Enclave has already shown itself to not be bothered by
Except the guy that dies on the radio I guess?

>40s shit
>started in fallout 2
Fallout 2 only started having references to movies made in the 70s and 80s

>You then proceed to neutralize an entire AFB.
Which was 90% empty because the Enclave didn't have the numbers to fill it.
>Which is fucking retarded considering at this point the Enclave still had a fuckton of resources to retake the wasteland with.
Except they didn't they had fewer numbers then the BoS, their only advantage was having even more advanced weaponry then the BoS.
>Processors aren't fucking TNT
Never said they were. Strawman much?
>I don't know, maybe the fact that you can easily hoard enough Rad-X and Rad-Away to last for long enough for the brotherhood to get through a door, I guess?
You can only reach Vault 81's door yourself by abusing the time stopping mechanic of opening the menu.... which OFC isn't how shit works in lore.
>He didn't know about the genocide plan either.
He probably did given that he already knew of the Enclave before their arrival, and he worked with the BoS for several years before leaving for the Vault.
>Why should he care so long as it means his life work is helping people?
Because at that point it isn't helping people you retard. Its exploiting them and abusing them. Jesus fuck how can you lack even the most basic critical thinking skills?
>You are aware that there are already trade caravans going around the wasteland and there's no reason why people couldn't follow them to wherever they get their goods from?
You are aware that those trade caravans get their supplies from the Capital Wasteland? hence why their entire route is within the CW? Not to mention, we know from dialog in Fo3, and from Dialog in Fo4, that the entire East Coast from Maine down to at least North Carolina, and as far west as Pittsburgh, is just as fucked up.

Attached: FAWKESSUCKS.png (461x892, 243K)

It's a shame we will never see a Fallout game with that aesthetic ever again. We are doomed to have shit like FO4's DLCs covers.
And the Fallout 2 team didn't understand Fallout either, ironically. Cain and Boyarsky bailed out of the team after seeing how they were handling their franchise.

>Yeah, threatening outsiders with lethal force until they agree to metaphorically suck your cock is totally normal considering literally no one else does that in the entire wasteland besides slaving raiders.
Megaton literally has a robot and a sniper on their main gate to shoot anyone that looks like a raider, and Rivet City has a massive bridge they can turn and wont let anyone in until you convince them to via radio.
>Sounds like something the enclave might have thought would be a good idea for the citadel or the BoS for raven rock.
That would be detrimental to taking over the wasteland and purging mutants.
>Except the guy that dies on the radio I guess?
Yeah man, he was totally kitted out in anti-rad gear because he totally expect it! You really have to be trolling at this point.

I don't even like Fallout 3, in fact I hate the way it is written, but based user for exposing such a retarded meme image.

Nice tits.

I really fucking hate exploring in F4. Every time I think Ive found a new town, it always ends up being some shitty settlement with 2 randomized NPCs that want me to build everything.

Id be happy if settlement building was completely removed from the game.

Attached: fallout gentlemangecko.jpg (1133x911, 202K)

I like settlement building, but I had how it became a substitution for actual fleshed out settlements.
Fallout 4 is so shallow and boring past the first 10 hours of the game.

>so you have no actual argument
Neurotransmitters and electrochemical signalling pathways aren't affected by EMPs. People don't go into a coma from bit flips and even if they did they'd just die since it's not like you can restart your fucking CNS after it's been shut off.
>This has nothing to do with player choice at all
Yes, it does, since it's rooted in the player being railroaded into the supporting the interests of the BoS even when they've done fuck all for us.
>Should have all agreed to turn on the giant robot army and THEN start fighting each other
Water isn't a military resource that can be immediately utilized by whoever produces it against everyone else.
>Which was 90% empty because the Enclave didn't have the numbers to fill it
Weird considering the number of vertibirds, scientists, officers and armored infantry set up there.
>their only advantage was having even more advanced weaponry then the BoS
And an army of remote controlled deathclaws, and a strategic military position, and the ability to willfully ignore radiation whenever they feel like.
>You can only reach Vault 81's door
I'm talking about the purifier, disphit.
>He probably did
I don't remember Eden saying "I want to kill everyone irradiated in the wasteland by distributing water" over the radio, must have missed that one.
>Its exploiting them and abusing them
So exactly like the paladins actually do after setting up the purifier?
>hence why their entire route is within the CW
It's strange that their goods magically appear while walking through the CW then, since there's no way anyone could produce anything they use with the exception of the Pitt. It's a little odd that you bring up game mechanics only when it suits you. Whatever Commons is the only "trade hub" in the entire game iirc.

I love reading about Fallout 4 fanboys who get shat on by their own, amazing, game.

Fallout 3 was great as it is. Maybe some things could be different but it was a great little game

based

>"Hey Mom I put it in meme text, am I real 4chaner now"

Do explain Avellone's version, I am interested

You'd essentially have to imagine a Fallout being made by Troika, because that's the studio that would have gotten the IP if not for Bethesda

He didn't like it when I sold him into slavery

>It's strange that their goods magically appear while walking through the CW then
They don't though.
-Rivet City produced fresh food in its science lab which they trade for scrap metal to fix the shp.
-Rivet City, and some other places like the Mirelurk farm under the Ancorage War memorial, harvest mirelurks for food, and trade the excess to settlements
-Settlements/organizations like Arefu, and the Regulators, are seen raising Brahmin for meat
-We can see hunters spawn across the wasteland hunting things like Yao Guai, mole rats, giant ants, and mirelurks, for meat
-Scavangers can be seen in numerous places across the wasteland looking for and picking out old weapons/medical supplies

>So exactly like the paladins actually do after setting up the purifier?
Nope, The BoS gives out the water for free to anyone who isn't a raider or slaver.

>I don't remember Eden saying "I want to kill everyone irradiated in the wasteland by distributing water" over the radio, must have missed that one.
Again, James worked with the BoS, you know, the same BoS from the West Coast, who encountered the Enclave and their genocide plans back in Fallout 2?

>And an army of remote controlled deathclaws
They had a handful, not an army
>, and a strategic military position, and the ability to willfully ignore radiation whenever they feel like.
Which isn't that useful when the giant mutant animals, feral ghouls, and super mutants outnumber you a billion to one.

>Weird considering the number of vertibirds, scientists, officers and armored infantry set up there.
And we see giant areas totally abandoned as well.

>Water isn't a military resource that can be immediately utilized by whoever produces it against everyone else.
Except it is, as the people of the wasteland lack clean water, and whoever turns the purifier on first can then get the people of the wasteland on their side, and instantly gain the PR advantage of claiming anyone trying to stop them is trying to take away the water

>the entire East Coast from Maine down to at least North Carolina, and as far west as Pittsburgh, is just as fucked up
Haven't played 4, but it's literally retarded that Bethesda thinks the degree of radiation damage to rural regions would be equivalent to that of a capital. Then again these are the same people who made 76 so I guess I shouldn't be terribly surprised if that was the case. In 3 it's at least heavily implied that Boston is better off by virtue of the institute existing and having influence in the CW.
>That would be detrimental to taking over the wasteland
Yeah destroying your largest potential resistance's base is always a bad idea when trying to take control of a region.
>because he totally expect it!
You're right, it's not like they guy you're talking to when that happened literally had that exact thing happen to him before or anything.

>even when they've done fuck all for us.
You mean besides giving us a safe haven after the Enclave attack, and letting us you their computers, and weaponry, to collect the GECK?

It took years of reflection and advancement in game design to make isometric RPGs tolerable. Fallout Van buren would not of had these adaptations and streamlining that made the revival games okay. It would of been more of the same clunky shit from fallouts 1 and 2 but in a day and age where there was no more audience for it. Fallout 3 was the best thing to happen to the franchise

I remember that Presper was actually a prewar scientist who was thawed out and didnt know he had the plague as he spread it around.

Everyone knows how the main quest in fallout 3 was terribly written after the first act. Everyone knows this because fags won't shut up about since its the only place in the game with such writing. The writing of the side quests in fallout 3 was just as good if not better than the writing in NV.

That was a reference to fallout 1 and also made a lot of sense in context.

>thinking all of 3's voice acting was bad.
Like most of it is better than New vegas and much of it is actually quality. Though of course much of it is also completely shit.

>professor frink created giant fire ants, stop him
>fetch famous artifacts quest
>let ghouls fuck up Tenpenny Tower because teh racists

based retard

>but it's literally retarded that Bethesda thinks the degree of radiation damage to rural regions would be equivalent to that of a capital.
They don't actually. The rest of the U.S. is as bad as the Capital Wasteland, but for different reasons.
-Up north in Far Harbor they have radioactive fog that covers entire islands and kills off anyone living there, on top of most of northern New England having been reduced to a giant half radioactive swamp.
-Boston, and much of the surrounding area, are affected by radstorms blowing off from the Glowing Sea, which can reach as far as Far Harbor 200 miles away
-The Pitt, and most of the eastern part of the Midwest, are so contaminated from all the chemical run off from all the factories there that the entire place is a giant cesspool.
-The western part of the Midwest is stated to be a giant radioactive dust bowl with rad-twisters miles wide back in Fallout 2.

>In 3 it's at least heavily implied that Boston is better off by virtue of the institute existing and having influence in the CW.
Boston doesn't have an influence on the C.W. Most people in the CW have no idea who the Institute are.

>Yeah destroying your largest potential resistance's base is always a bad idea when trying to take control of a region.
Yeah man, letting rampant human consuming plant growth grow everything is such a good idea when trying to take control of a region.

>You're right, it's not like they guy you're talking to when that happened literally had that exact thing happen to him before or anything.
Autumn didn't know you gave him the wrong code.

No they weren't. Not even a single side-quest was memorable, even the vaults were boring memey shit.

Liam Nesson wasn't even that great in fallout 3. The British robots and the merchant in the vampire lair are the best actors

>Why has there been a renaissance of isometric RPGs in the 2010s then?
Because it's fucking easier to develop for small studios, you mentally handicapped retard.

Or do you see any 5-As (AAAAA) videogame companies develope isosshit games?
How come ever fucking big company (which unfortunately falls into the microtransactions money grab, rip vidya) develops games in 4.5D 16K 144fps?
Dumb fucking shit that you are, you have no fucking culture nor any idea of the videogame trends / releases of the last 3 days. Shitnuts for brains.
Are you really fucking wasting the chan's bandwidht to compare fucking indie 3-people team studios with what Bethesda was in 199x?

You know there's an entire game outside the main story. I know you only played the main story but there's a hell of a lot outside that.

>Water purifier that has no reason to exist.
are you retarded? The water purifier makes complete fucking sense. Radiation kills people and in fallout the water is irradiated.

You don't need to lie to trash talk the shit plot of fallout 3, so why are you doing it?

>Literally the only "person" who wants that is an AI who can be talked into suicide with a single sentence.
Wrong. We know that James and Madison lee were heavily involved in the Brotherhood and well educated. Naturally they would f known about the story of fallout 2 and how the Enclave tried to kill everyone. SO it makes sense that James would kill himself to not let these people he would only know as genocidal maniacs from taking over his life's work

>Then there shouldn't be people in the capital wasteland at all. It's a recurring problem in Bethesda fallouts that if a certain area has turned into an uninhabitable shithole there's not really a reason for people to stick around and not head to greener pastures.
You know how there are people who live in the most inhospitable northern points of the world. Or in the Seharrra desert. Why then wouldn't there be people in the DC wasteland.

2>1>4>3>Tactics

>Mirelurk farm
You mean the nests that the PC can go into and have no one else in them or evidence of any systematic way of killing them besides blowing their brains out even though it would be a waste of bullets and meat?
>raising Brahmin for meat
The scale in the CW is consistent with subsistence farming at best and even so it would encourage pastoralism and not sedentary settlements considering they are still herbivorous.
>the BoS gives out the water for free to anyone who isn't a raider or slaver
Which immediately results in discontent for the administrators and Elder Lyons isn't exactly going to live forever.
>the same BoS from the West Coast
In name only, the BoS isn't a unified pan-American faction.
>They had a handful
They had enough to spread them across the wasteland despite inexplicably not using them to secure the purifier.
>dumb, dangerous animals outnumber you a billion to one so building defenses isn't useful
Not sure where you're going with this.
>whoever turns the purifier on first can then get the people of the wasteland on their side
The PR angle of the Enclave is that they are the government. I'm not really sure how that would change by forcibly removing a group of perceived rebels from an area without really affecting any neutral party. On the other hand the BoS would get the image of being willing to use a giant robot and kill a bunch of people who they don't like over having the right to be in control of water distribution, which is a half-step up from being a group of xenophobic technocrats with a current leader who wants to open up more, I suppose.
> they have radioactive fog... affected by radstorms blowing off from the Glowing Sea...
Why?
>are so contaminated from all the chemical run off from all the factories there that the entire place is a giant cesspool
That's true currently and yet there are still over 300,000 residents.
>Boston doesn't have an influence on the C.W
The railroad is there, and there is a synth there.

it kinda did, stuff like ODYSSEUS and the giant robo-dog guarding tibbets prison are cool but too out there even for fallout. I do like some of the goofy robot designs like the gas pump robots and agricola bot concept art

Wow I haven't seen a captain image in years

>imagine taking them to a place that won't accept them or the meme village in the ass end of the map

>Autumn didn't know you gave him the wrong code.
So he trusted you enough to not give him the wrong code when you know it can kill whoever enters it but he still doesn't trust you enough to let you fix the thing he wanted to fix.

>Misunderstanding the Tenpenny tower quest that bad.
>Not encluding things like Oasis, Canterburry commons, Blood ties, The one where you get the children free out of the slavers, head of state.
Cherry pick harder

You mean you don’t want to take them to set up shop in the Megaton crater?

>Why then wouldn't there be people in the DC wasteland
Well, the supermutants, rad-scorpions, giant firebreathing ants and constant radiation might be reasons to not set up camp in a place.
>so why are you doing it?
Because pressing 2 sets of 2 keys is faster than typing an actual argument.

>Blood Ties
>A direct clone of a shitty quest from 2
>Oasis
>Praising the direct shitting all over an iconic character
>The paradise falls one thats a two minute fetch quest

They all suck. Really hard.

yeah, it's hard to tell since we have way more details of New Vegas' take on it, but it does seem like the ideas matured and changed for the better.

Joshua Graham/The Hanged Man is one example I'd like to add. Even though an evil companion that puts you at odds with everyone does sound like a cool idea.

Ironically it was NV that had the unmemorable quests. In 3 each one was very memorable because all of them ha a lot of showmanship and style to make them stand out.
>Meeting a group of Vampires
>Deciding if you should euthanize a treeman
>Taking the declaration of Independence from a robot made to roleplay as a founding father
>two superheros are fighting over a town.

In comparison most of NV's quests are just
>Oh no the legions is doing something, stop them
>Hey can you get a guy to sell me some beef
>Lets fight over a town
>Talk to this one guy.

fallout tactics has so many fun concepts and designs, i love the calculator and the pacification/goliath robots, but the 2 leggers humanoid bots look too star wars for me

>but the 2 leggers humanoid bots look too star wars for me
I have always assumed that the Assaultrons in Fo4 and 76 were based off of those

Fuck off Todd. Fallout 3 sucked

The ants were a new creation made by a mad scientist. the rap scorps are everywhere and the supermutants are new arrivals.

Most of the wastelanders in 3 have been there for a long time back when it wasn't as dangerous with no mutants, but now that there are dangers, they can't just move on as that itself would be more dangerous than staying in small permanent communities.

>all of them ha a lot of showmanship and style to make them stand out
That's an odd way to say they were unique because there were only 18 of them.

Oasis and the Paradise falls one were great moral questions, where the argument of whatwas the right thing to do was a main part of this quest.
>Is Harold's right to die mire important than what he can give to the wasteland.
>Is it moral to sacrifice an adults life for a child's freedom.
The ladder one has much more going on with it that you would know if you don't just go for the quickest resolutions

> and the supermutants are new arrivals.
Not him but this is incorrect.

The super mutants have been around in the Capital Wasteland since 2078.

>it wasn't as dangerous
Radiation would have been even higher, there were still supermutants and the giant insects were enough of a problem to encourage the experiments in the first place.

>You mean a game that was made from the ground up with new textures physics and gameplay, which focused on dungeons and exploration over quality of quests in a world that was supposed to feel lonely has less quests than a game built on anothers' foundation that focused almost exclusively on writing quests has less quests?
>Oh my god

>Fallout Tactics is considered noncannon by Bethesda
>but only certain parts

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Yes, but those mutants only went out to kidnap people, the only reason why we see so many in DC is because they are trying to find more FEV virus to create more mutants.

>Paradise falls one were great moral questions
Is it more moral to enslave a couple people and kill one for the sake of a group of slavers who will continue to promote a slave trade or to just kill all of the slavers and free the children that way? Truly a dilemma for the ages.

The ants are never a problem and are too slow to do anything. And the rest of the bugs could be beaten just be getting higher ground

From what we have been told in Fallout 3, Fo4, and the Fallout 3 game guide
-There was a group of BoS sent east to track down remnants of the Master's army
-They were sent in airships which crashed near Chicago
-They absorbed super mutants into their ranks
-By the time of Fallout 3 they are a small chapter, considered to have gone rogue

-Radroaches
-Nuka Cola Cherry
and a few other things from tactics have shown up in Fo3 and Fo4 as well.

Oblivion released in 2006.

I haven't played a single non-isometric fallout game and I'm going to keep it that way. Though I wish I didn't play fallout tactics as well.
Y'all fucking gay and your shit's all retarded.

>Fallout 2 is shit!
Why?
>It has outdated pop-culture references!
What specific reference broke your immersion so much that you gave up the entire game?
>I... I umm.

>What specific reference broke your immersion so much that you gave up the entire game
The entirety of San Francisco

I think we're thinking of two different quests.
I'm talking about the one where you free the kids.
In that one you either need to go through a series of hoops to free them secretly, which could be hard to do without certain skills, or kill all the slavers. This already is a moral question since the action of mass murder, even to slavers, is morally questionable.

IF you choose to free the kids covertly you may have to free a man that has taken up a friendship with one of the kids. Doing this will lead to his death since he can't excape the same way the kids can. There you have the moral question of if it is right to kill a man to free a child.
This shit would considered one of the best quests in NV, but since it's in 3 you dismiss qualities and bring up faults because you want it to e terrible to full fill your preposition that fallout 3 is bad

They still had to heavily re work the engine to fit an fps

Some gooks with pre war technology set up in pre war San Fran, what's so whacky about that?

Sorry, post war San Fran

>This already is a moral question since the action of mass murder, even to slavers, is morally questionable.
It's not a very good one. Kind of like the one in M.
>This shit would considered one of the best quests in NV
No, it wouldn't. You're just dumb.

>Fallout Tactics 2

>The game took place in the Southeastern USA, as far as Florida, and the major conflict was to be between man and nature. The Brotherhood of Steel was to be portrayed as even more militaristic and oppressive, and as BoS only in name.

>The basic premise was that a GECK had been irradiated, and thus, the "Garden of Eden" it created was full of mutant plants and fungi. The mutant garden begins to spread fairly rapidly, preying upon animal life and using them as carriers/fertilizer to spread its fungal seed. The player basically gets tasked with discovering the source and a way to put an end to it. You had accelerated regrowth and nature reclaiming the wasteland, but because the irradiated GECK also wants to get rid of humans, there's a real moral ambiguity to it.

>Unlike its predecessor, it would feature combat armor. Mutant crocodiles were also going to appear.

Attached: crocs.png (500x282, 205K)

>Superheroes, tree people and vampires are cool, so fallout 3 is a good post-apocalyptic RPG
Hello Bethesda

The Scientology and Kung Fu Warriors were pretty blatant

>I like my games completely serious, with no fun shit at all, because I'm an autist who requires complete immersion

No kidding.

It's over, Todd, we have the high ground.

Yeah, every game without space aliens and basement cthulhu shrines is basically Apocalypse Now.

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He wasnt a retard

Without it fallout would be generic shitbrown or green shit

desu as much as I hate Fallout 3 the one thing I liked about it was Paradise Falls. The mesmetron was cool and I think roleplaying as an evil slaver was better in that game than Fallout 2.

You can use an aesthetic style with a degree of sincerity. You don't have to play it completely straight, but if you consistently make it into a big joke, the world will reflect that.

Remember that time when Bethesda made Behemoths, and they were just slightly bigger supermutants? But then they wanted them to be more EPICXDDDD so they scaled them up to be giants, but also scaled up their melee weapon as well without even noticing it was a fire hydrant thats now larger than a person.

Attached: fallout behemoth.jpg (1920x1080, 684K)

I always wondered why the fire hydrant was so massive. Why a fire hydrant anyway? Like of all the blunt objects it could be using as a weapon it's such a weird choice.

Artistically, it stands out because of the color and shape. It makes sense for a normal-sized mutant to be wielding a club made of random shit they found.

>with what Bethesda was in 199x?
Bethesda never made crpgs to begin with, they always did action/rpg hybrids. The early Fallout games were by a different studio, Bethesda just bought the IP. Arena and Daggerfall share a lot in common with the modern action RPGs and back when they released you had people complaining that they were casualizing the genre and trying to bring in the DOOM audience.