You don't actually save scum, right user?

Suicide is IRL savescumming

>play dodonpachi
>lose single life to a stray bullet out of nowhere
>immediately restart the emulator and play again

LOCK ME UP THROW AWAY THE KEY

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You haven't played Daggerfall then. The save you need is before accepting a quest. That's all. Try playing the game before parroting things you might have heard from your other fellow zoomers.

I saved TES games constantly to multiple files because a game breaking bug or corruption could arise at any moment.

Wish I could beat the habit, but it's like a drug.

>Fail quest because you said yes instead of maybe
>Don't get xp
>Don't get magic sword
>Quest stays in your journal with a big red X
>Nothing else changes
Woah, those most interesting aspects are awesome

man why the fuck do they still have pickpocketing being rng. Its not fun literally everyone just reload on failure
they should just replace it with a minigame or have skill checks

I try not to nowadays.
It happens subconciously when I stop having fun.

>you can load if you die, get locked in a dungeon, or a catastrophe happens
That's everything, tho. Why else would you load in that kind of game?

Role playing games played by FPS morons was never great gamer revolution.

good luck with Ghost Recon or Max Payne without savescumming. Those games are absolutely ruthless about dropping enemies on you from somewhere you can't expect.

And in Ghost Recon, it's mostly 1-shot permadeath for all your soldiers.

hey mark, what's this item called again?

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>Losing hours of progress because dialogue failed to load when turning in a quest.
Nah nigga. I'm going to save before opening a door, before talking to anyone, before walking up stairs, before picking up an item, and before ever jumping.
Fuck you, I'm not redoing the Hall of the Orc King because a fucking piece of paper just disappeared when I picked it up.

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Funny because in that game I was saving every step I could because I would die in every room

I have never saved a game in my life

Another way is to approach them like Rogue-likes. Die, start anew, get better, die again.

saving often is not save scumming
fucking morons

I "savescumed" during my entire childhood well into my teen years and never knew it was considered a scummy practice until I came here 12 years ago. I thought it was just common sense gaming.

If a game is filled with overly tedious bullshit, or RNG shenanigans, then I will absolutely save scum. If a dev wants to aggressively waste my time, I will take whatever measure I see fit to counteract that.

>reading comprehension

>save scumming isn't save scumming

if that's not how they wanted you to play, why would they allow you to do that in the first place?

well designed games allow you to beat game in one run without savescumming

Daggerfall is so glitchy you will be savescumming for different reasons.
That's just poorly designed challenges honestly.

I don't remember the manual of morrowind warning me about the dozens of corrupted saves, and hundreds of hours lost because of it, I'ld encouter.

I've been in this place for over a decade and I have no idea what save scumming is.

do you know what "scumming" is you fucking retard

it's making abuse of the saves you made, rather than using them to undo unintended faults, bugs, glitches and complete failures that otherwise end the game

I do. In some games, I avoid it, but if I'm trying to build Israel from 2 county duchy in Abyssinia, you can bet your ass I'm going to savescum.

A lot of them are designed to be beaten through savescumming and hard memorization but not all of them.

Never understood how saving/loading your game became "savescumming" and is considered a deplorable thing to do.
Did it come with consolefags getting older and gaining voice?

Mechwarrior Mercenaries had plenty of missions that branched based on your failure or how you handled the contract.

But old games were glitchier than hell and saving often was pretty much required. You never knew when you'd crash or your save would corrupt or you ran into a game breaking bug.

Like MW:Mercenaries had phantom weight where if you were in a mech lab and messed with your loadout you might have the previous gear's weight remain which would drastically lower your possible equip weight. No other way to fix this but loading an earlier save.

Mark Brown is a retard and doesn't actually have any insight in to game design.

1. Save before a part that obviously looks like a big battle, boss fight etc. Preferably as close as possible before that thing begins.
2. Do the thing.
3. If you didn't do as well as you want to, load the save.

quicksaving before doing anything and reloading that save until you get it right

I beat every game in a single playthrough
If it has autosaves I disable them
If I can't disable them I delete the file after I beat it
Then I delete the game
Once I got to level 60 and beat molten core I called blizzard up and made them delete my account
I only buy new games and once I've finished them I break the disc so I can never go back

>Never understood how saving/loading your game became "savescumming" and is considered a deplorable thing to do.
Undermines difficulty. Everyone despises casuals once they grow out of being a casual.

>Did it come with consolefags getting older and gaining voice?
It has been a thing since forever and I've played console games like 2 or 3 times in my life at a friend's, I think about 25 to 27 years ago.

Saving (usually shortly before) something you do that has random nature to it/you can fail/has different outcomes.
For example:
>save right in front of a character to speak and see what each dialogue option does then loading back and picking the one with the outcome you liked best (like Fallout)
>saving just before something of random nature to "reroll" (possible in XCOM)
Saving frequently is not save scumming and save scumming is usually possible in games that allow you to save at any location/on any turn.

Imagine beating a hard level in Doom without saving and loading to save yourself from a fuck up and actually rolling with the punches.
Now imagine loading every time something bad happens and saving every minute.
They both lead to different ways of experiencing the game, the second one seriously hurts the challenge by making it trivial.

Imagine playing the first three gens of pokemon without savescumming

Imagine if only like one of your friends caught legendaries and you had to trade with them to complete your dex, or trade one you had with a friend who had a different one

>reinstall stalker
>rebind quicksave to mouse 1 and quickload to mouse 2

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saving before a choice and then regretting it and reloading or
saving before, for example a boss battle, and then reload because you wasted too many supplies or something
reloading a redoing a quest because you failed

and only faggots actually care

I only save scum if there is RNG involved.
RF4 had events behind this and it made the game a bit annoying.

People with standards do since savescumming is for fags.

>standards
you are playing a video game dumb faggot
kill yourself

Not on my first playthrough, but sometimes when you already know that your mistake is going to have no future benefit, or give your character a reputation that doesn't fit your vision, then it's hard to resist.

t.casual who got exposed

See, you have no standards. You give yourself an excuse like that instead of actually enjoying the game the way and it's challenges.

>he doesn't have standards even for vidya
Disgusting pleb.

>or give your character a reputation that doesn't fit your vision
Something that's similar but worse is choice options that are unclear or straight up misleading and has your character say/do the opposite of what you intended.

Lmao those shitters have been hated since always even in pc circles you newfag.

Why is the anime girl doing those noises.

[Glass Him]

if they dont want save scumming why they put save system in game that allows it?

so what interesting things happen in Daggerfall if you screw up?

They say that in America sometimes, it wasn't that ambiguous.

I'm not a native English speaker and even I knew what that choice meant because I'm not a retard.

I savescum in Xcom

I have a big chronic savescumming problem. I wish I could get rid of it.

Only if I know failing has interesting consequences and isn't just a hindrance.

Nigga, you don't know how to use console commands to spawn an item into your inventory?
Zoomers really are fucking retarded.

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If John Romero didn't want save scumming then maybe dont include it in the game. He is a retard.

>here is a gameplay mechanic, but dont use it
That's just shitty game design.

Old school FPSs games aren't well known to be well designed. A lot of those old school fps games are so similar they start blending into each other.

>fight doesnt go the way I want it to
>idclevXX

Saving and reloading extensively to the point where you aren't really playing the game, just picking the best outcome if you failed to get it the first time.
This is frowned upon moreso with RPGS than FPS.

>using the console
I might as well just continue savescumming then.

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>Saving frequently is not save scumming

saving frequently is the definition of save scumming
normally you're expected to save after beating a level or when something unexpected comes up and you need to turn off the game

No, I throw the scum away

>This is frowned upon moreso with RPGS than FPS.

I will bully you for saving in doom mid-level

Or you could just type in literally one line and not have to waste 2 hours doing the same shit again. Don't be dumb, be smart.

have you forgotten where you are?

If you didn't want me to save scum you should have put in save points

You don't actually make a game that relies on save scum mechanics, right?

>throwing away nutrients
Guess how I know you're american.

Have sex

This. I hate myself for save scumming but I also hate picking a dialogue tree that results in some unexpected, unfavorable situation. Or I just feel the compulsion to rewind and see the other results for the most favorable one.

>people bitched so hard over anti-savescumming in XCOM that they patched it out
Fucking bullshit, specially because you could still savescum, just not choosing the exact same action over and over until you managed to land 1% chance shots.

If the only choice is death, yes. If it's an RPG with fail states that lead further into the game, nope.

>savescumming

what the fuck, why is this term even a thing. I will play my single player video games however the fuck I want, why would I listen to an opinion of some reddit faggot telling me that I'm not playing the game legitimately, literally go fuck yourself

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>Bethesda never changed

My sincere laughs

None of this shit is save scumming, it's insurance for a bad game. They're talking about if you make a mistake and reload constantly just to get a more satisfactory result, not keep the game afloat.

lol stupid bitch you can play however you want and we can call it savescumming

This the most imbecile argument in this thread

And on top of that defending Bethesda jesus christos

>Just finish programming the game duh
>Just cheat to unfuck the fuck up of the game
>But not savescumming, that's the other kind of cheating

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She's unzipping her cunny

why did he delete his whole twitter?

>The game has a button for saving on command
>Somehow it's cheating

It's not only intended for some games, it's necessary for buggy shits like Bethy spaghettis

I try not to, unless fucking something up results in an automatic quest fail. That's not accounting for a mistake, that's just dumb.

not only do I savescum but I pretty much cheat at every single player game, I'm unironically a
>just play for the story
fag at this point
>saving frequently is the definition of save scumming
that's totally and utterly wrong, for instance in kotor 2 saving frequently is absolutely mandatory because eventually you will get a dialogue bug that you have to restart to fix and the game almost never autosaves
save scumming is doing it so you can just reload if you fuck up a portion of the game until you get it right

How are we supposed to play pic related without save scumming ? The game will force you to go through the last 30 minutes of gameplay if you don't precisely show exhibit n°1561654, and sometimes it doesn't really make sense. I did episodes 1, 2 and 3 on emulator and I liked it a lot, but I wouldn't be able to love it if I had to play it on original hardware.

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Reminder that savescumming only refers to cheating with saves in games that disallow it. Such as backing up and restoring saves in roguelikes.

Mashing quicksave/quickload in games that have it is not 'scumming' even if it's a complete bitch way to play.

I love games where saving is part of the game world (KCD, partially) or that there is a single save file that keeps being automatically updated (souls). It makes the gameplay and decisions more impactful while immersing you in the gameworld.

Though at the same time I savescum like a motherfucker while playing games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. since I keep dying every so often, repeating the same sections over and over is a pain in most games.

Minmaxing your character through savescumming is absolute cancer though and I wish developers would build systems to discourage it. If you reloaded a save in a casino in New Vegas the game would stop you from gambling for a minute which was a neat trick but ultimately tedious if you kept strong arming it. Dunno, I just feel like saving is a major mechanic in games that doesn't get talked about enough.

It's the preemptive move of a sex crime perp
He runs with Zoe Quinn's crowd so it's likely he's done something naughty

In most cases you're just cheating yourself but play however you like, it isn't skin off my back.

>all these people in this thread acting like they can't tell the difference between hitting save every 10 minutes in case something fucks up and crouching behind an npc and repeatedly loading the save until pickpocket works or their 5% chance to hit is guaranteed

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Why don't limit saves in some way if you don't want your players to savescum? It's impossible not to savescum if it's possible to savescum.

I never save scummed. I made god items and had no challenge instead.

well then , dont add manual save, let the game autosave like darksouls, so you have to deal with your mistakes

>what's that DM, the dracolich killed me? let's go back 15 min and destroy the phylactery now that I know where it is

Imagine getting this angry at people rightfully calling you a little bitch.

I do, mainly because dialogue choices have always been retarded and can, as of late, be misinterpreted immensely to a stupid degree. And it's not like anything meaningful comes from it if you find out about the theives guild by going to jail.

imagine caring so much about how other people play their SINGLE PLAYER games

I wouldn't savescum if I had confidence in the developers that the game wouldn't completely screw me out of content or waste many hours of my time. If a loss is a simple setback and has you making more interesting decisions as a result then it's fine of course.

Unfortunately many developers are assholes and have little respect for a players time. Hurr durr you died, spend an hour getting back to that point. In strategy games it's a complete slippery slope where a loss can mean you can never come back from it no matter what decisions you make, which is especially terrible in games that can last over multiple IRL days.

Life has enough permanent setbacks for people to deal with. I play games to escape from that not to experience it in a different manner. Hell even EVE has modes of progression that are basically "permanent" in terms of the skill tree that limit your losses. The bigger issue is not getting the carrier; it's having the skills to fly it.

i always savescum in certain games

i fucking hate having to replay the last 5 minutes

>oh no the house is on fire! quick, SAVE all the maps and character sheets so we can load it up later

>undermines difficulty
As does Power Gaming and exploiting rpg systems. Yet no one complains about that.

I'm glad we no longer have to put up with such stuff anymore. Stuff like that is way too video gamey.

>Yet no one complains about that.
I miss being this young and naive sometimes.

Oh they absolutely do. It's retarded elitist complaints that people aren't playing the game "their way" or struggling like them by intentionally gimping themselves, but they absolutely do exist. They need to feel like they got through the game "the right way" and that they are better than you for retardedly gimping themselves.

I only save scummed in games like Harvest Moon where some things have insane time constraints with complete rng attached to their requirements to the extent you could get fucked by bad luck with not finding certain items that spawn and not be able to marry someone or unlock something.

They added a save feature in the newer games and the HD ports.
The reason they let you replay the last 30 minutes (or even more) is actually not that stupid though. Sometimes reviewing the order of events and looking at the case from a different, informed perspective can help figuring out which piece of evidence you were supposed to present.

Usually it's bullshit though. Even in the later games (just finished DGS a couple months ago) they still only accept one piece of evidence when others would apply just as well.

L.A. Noire, among others, has the same problems. I guess it's impossible to make a perfect interrogation game.

He never played New Vegas where you have to save every 20 minutes otherwise when the game inevitably crashes you dont lose 4 hours of progress

This, exactly.

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I mean the problem with that is there's games like roguelikes that are basically balanced around permadeath and permanent loss of progress.

Of course you're allowed to not like those games and not play them if you want, personally I prefer short roguelikes, I don't really like long ones.

>RNG did not go enough in my favor
>lets load game I saved right before

>Playing the DS release of Dragon Quest V
>Metal Slime appears
>Save state
>Find out that the game rolls all of its RNG way in advance so if I load state, the exact same things happen every turn

Not sure how the hell they managed that or why they'd do it when it'd only matter for people playing on an emulator, but it means I can't cheese shit like in other games.

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>once I've finished them I break the disc so I can never go back
mark of a true chad right here

half life tickled my autism when i was younger, i used to save/load a lot to mak the perfect run

I save scum because most games are poorly designed horseshit. Also It's become second nature for me to save every 5 seconds because after I lost an 85+ hour save in F:NV due to a single glitch corrupting the file, I got sick and fucking tired of corrupted files and refuse to take chances with anything anymore.

I didn't savescum in Daggerfall because the world is big and open enough to allow you to fuck up all kinds of shit by being a blundering thief idiot without completely ruining the game.

I play on easy and abuse qick save/load all the time, especially in stealth games, because I do whatever the fuck I want.

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I played every game without save outside of chapter breaks except for AAI2 because it had so few breaks. I only had 4-5 gameovers in the entire series, but the tension was there the whole time and is way better than save scumming.

>A lot of them are designed to be beaten through savescumming and hard memorization but not all of them.
Such as

this is cope. new vegas was one of the most broken mainstream games on launch and 50%+ mainstream games outside fucked up bethesda shit never requires save scumming

>yes, I like to eat my own shit. WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT PEOPLE WITH THEIR OWN SHIT!!??

No game should allow to save scum
If a game allows the it is badly designed

no but i do save skub

Fuck off nigger. NV was just the final straw, I can name countless fucking games where not saving constantly resulted in either a broken run, corrupted file, or some other mess.

We reload to an earlier save when we die? But I don't remember ever saving.

this but unironically, i lost a 500 or so hour M&B save due to corruption and that was it for me

There's nothing wrong with savescumming. If gamedevs disagree, they should just make saving available only at checkpoints instead of whenever the player wants.

This isn't true in Elder Scrolls games anymore. Usually there's just one way to do everything now.

That's only true if the game has something to show if you fail some things.

Why wouldn't you save before a boss, especially one where you would otherwise end up at the beginning of a dungeon? Total waste of your time.
I restart levels if one of my units dies in FE too. Call the cops, I don't give a fuck.

restarting a map when a unit dies isn't save scumming

I know but people still get pissy if you do. Nevermind the fact that the last few games have had a literal rewind button in them.

Many rougelikes are shittily designed and overrated by elitists who have no life to throw at a game with terrible trial and error mechanics. Where the trials take a boring hour slog to get to the last 5 minutes that are "difficult" but in reality just rote memorization most of the time. Not to mention unbalanced RNG where a run is simply a no go no matter how hard you try or unless you spend even longer grinding to attempt to overcome it.

Rougelikes are mostly a copout by developers to pad out game time and "replayability" without needing to actually spend the effort to create well-structured levels, stories, or narratives that are fun to play. Just set up a shitty procedural generator with extremely basic logic and call it a game. Sure it's a "unique experience" to each player and playthrough but it's an ultimately shitty, unmemorable one.

The "Scumming" comes from the SCUMM engine I thought. Either way it originally referred to copying backup saves in something like a Roguelike (where your save would be deleted on death), not just regular save/loading.

Savescumming isn't saving and reloading. The term originally referred to things like Roguelikes or Diablo hardcore that would delete your character/save on death. You could just copy your save files to a new location and then put them back if you died. That's Savescumming.

Reloading to cheese RNG is basically the same thing, but a lesser variant.

Normal save/loading isn't savescumming.

>How are we supposed to play pic related without save scumming ?

That's how we played it on release on a DS and it was perfectly fine. It's not like you should lose often anyway.

Save scumming is fun though. I always have fun learning how to break a game one way or another

no that's what rewind is for

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Only in games with infrequent/no checkpoints like Stalker and in some special cases like CoD 1 where on the highest difficulty there are no healthpacks anywhere and you die after 2 to 3 bullets.

logic bred from a retarded mind with no imagination

I always kept 4 slots: 1 for when I wasn't on a quest, 1 for just before accepting a quest, 1 before I entered a dungeon for a quest, and 1 for when I was in a dungeon for a quest.

I used to but I stopped a few years ago.

Honestly, I do. I only began seeing the value in not savescumming after playing Kingdom Come.

>you will never see some of the most interesting aspects of the game unless you play through your mistakes
Is there a single game that actually lives up to that? It seems most games nowadays are designed around savescumming.

HAHAHA AND THEN THE RED BRICK FILLED DOOR INSTANTLY SLAYS YOU WITHOUT WARNING OR MITIGATION METHODS WHEN YOU TRY TO GO THROUGH IT, EVEN THOUGH IN MANY DUNGEONS THAT IS THE SOLE METHOD OF PROGRESSION TO THE RANDOMLY PLACED ITEM IN IT

It’s a special kind of stupid

>savescumming Diablo hardcore characters
Why not play softcore at that point?

>literally have a key bound to save and load the game
>durr don't use it
fuck off

Any game with permadeath like Fire Emblem. I did my first No Reset playthrough and it gets intense when you lose your best guys.

THATS A LIE
>quicksaves after every kill in the merc place
i-it's a lie!
>quicksave after every bloodsucker kill in the village
b-bold faced lie....
>quicksave after every step in the pripyat underground

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No, there really isn't.

Doesn't Fire Emblem prevent main characters from dying? Or if they do die then you just auto-fail the mission?

Pointless to say that when the game encourages/rewards you for savescumming.

>Or if they do die then you just auto-fail the mission?
This. Lords, the main characters, and mission specific critical units auto-fail the mission on defeat. It's typically the only loss condition.

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>I only had 4-5 gameovers in the entire series
>It's not like you should lose often anyway
Fuck I must be really bad. I think I got something like +10 gameovers per game. Mostly because of some particular moments where I really couldn't tell what I was supposed to do.

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>Insisting on using a console when that's an even worse form of cheating than Savescumming
Holy fucking brainlet.

This.

There are many games where the line between a necessary restart and save scumming is very unclear. The original two Fallouts come to mind.

Kenshi

Fucking this
>start as a starving guy with a missing arm
>get beaten to near death by a few outlaws on the way to the nearest city
>slavers find you, patch your wounds and clasp you in irons
>spend about a month in slavery training your body and spirit
>finally become a proficient enough martial artist to beat one of the guards off and strip him of his gear
>heal up and sneak out of your cell at night, grab the outfit and leave the slave camp in disguise

>savescum or spend 10 minutes dying

Funny for a game with inevitable save corruption bugs that make the thing virtually unfinishable unless you're a noclip speedrunner.

Reminder that if you didn't pistol start every level you never truly experienced DOOM at its best

I don't nowadays. When I was an impatient teen I did a bit. I realized it's pointless nowadays. It's better to just embrace the branching paths.

XCOM definitely.
Fire Emblem hasn't had good/worthwhile permadeath since the Super Famicom.

Just play the DS versions, duh

>Fire Emblem hasn't had good/worthwhile permadeath since the Super Famicom
Elaborate?

>finally become a proficient enough martial artist to beat one of the guards off and strip him of his gear
>beat one of the guards off
>strip him of his gear

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The games just penalize you by removing the content you're there to see.
In the older games the characterization was just to give the game some flavor, but in newer ones it's become the primary motivator, which is counter to the original purpose.

I think if you wanted to make a modern Fire Emblem (i.e. character and story-driven) with good permadeath, you'd lock content behind deaths instead of just behind keeping people alive.
A party member dies and that sets off a whole questline where you embark to break the news to their family/fulfill their dying wish/return their body to their homeland/correct any political issues, e.g. inheritance that the death might have caused.
Also have their impact/memory linger in the remaining units' stats via some weird system.

Aye, fair enough. Your system sounds interesting but I doubt they'd put in that much effortm

I agree with the point in general, both savescumming and min-maxing aren't things you should be doing in RPGs unless you're playing on harder modes where you have to go full autism and plan things a bit more meticulously, they totally ruin the fun after a while.

But Daggerfall is a notorious buggy mess where it's necessary to save scum if you don't want to fuck yourself over. It's entirely possible (and in fact not uncommon) to get a quest to find something in a dungeon and then have that item just not spawn when you enter it, or certain people might not spawn when you enter a town.

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I do it all the time. Idgaf