Tournaments already starting to ban Hero

>he doesn't jump cancel

>nerfs
HAW HAW
Not before 6.0, at the earliest.

>Really want Bayonetta in Smash
>People cry that she's too good and she gets nerfed into uselessness in Ultimate
>Really want a DQ character in Smash
>People cry about him too so he's gonna get nerfed into uselessness
At least Mega Man is well balanced

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>Smelly tourneyfags don't understand the concept of adapting to characters so they resort to banning them instead
Color me surprised

Meanwhile hero players don’t need to adapt to anything at all and simply just mash buttons and win everything.

>use aggressive fast attacks

there you got an edge on Hero. you cunts.

>Kamikazee

lol

Why are you talking about the balance of a character you have clearly never tried before?

>nerfs imminent
Just like Joker, right?

Everyone thought Joker was bad, and Joker was nerfed a little.

>>Zoom is almost always guaranteed when you're off stage
Nigger you what

>Mash with Hero
>Accidentally do Kacklang

Man I sure am glad I have Hero, now I win at everything

It's used a ton by higher end players and really does have an increased % to show based off of how far off stage you are.

>Zoom almost always guaranteed offstage

Motherfucker you what
You WHAT

The only thing they need to need is crit chances and Whack. As a DQ fan, neither of these things are important in DQ games or happen as often in the games as they do in Smash. Everything else is fine.

Whack spells are pretty damn useful to off tough monsters in a hurry i don't know why you don't use it.

Not only that, it's South Australia. The whole state consists of Adelaide, Port Augusta, and fucking dirt.

>thwack/whack killing at 0%
>Pysch up not going away on shield breaks
Literally all that needs to be changed.
Give the instakills a 0% kill rate until like 10% or so damage but 100% when the enemy is above ~150%, Make psych up end as long as the attack lands in some form (shielded, parried, countered or hits normally)
Maaaaybe increase the crit chances and reduce their power, but idk.

At the edge is 60%, that is hardly all the time.

>At least Mega Man is well balanced
Are you kidding? He's one of the best characters in the game. Dude needs a nerf.

>Kaclang
>Kamikaze
>Hocus Pocus Shrink/Poison
>Run out of MP then get pushed off stage and cant recover
sorry to say user but you're a massive fucking retard.

Fuck off, you're genuinely just bad. Please get off this image board and go learn your fundamentals.

Whack is way more useful in DQ than it is in smash, stop larping you fucking autist. just because you saw 2 webms of whack killing at 0 doesnt mean its good or useful.

>Generic Swordsman #X fags BTFO
Good

And the meek shall inherit the earth...

His knockback on neutral B and kaboom are what really need to be nerfed, along with the duration of magic burst.

Otherwise he's fine.

Using Bounce against him seems to be nerf enough

>>nerfs
He's already low tier. Why bother?

>Everyone thought Joker was bad
For like what, a week before he was actually tested in a large competitive environment?

What? Whack almost never works in DQ. It's literally so unreliable that even the games jokes about the fact that it never works.

This is the type of nigga that's gonna get Hero banned

well whack is the single enemy spell and thwack is the all enemy spell and that one is useful especially against late game monsters. but it's all about luck and i guess i usually was lucky they land.

In XI they have like a 75% chance to work on big monsters like trolls that would otherwise take forever to kill. Was a staple spell in my low level draconian run

Also in DQIII, expell is one of the most useful spells in the game. It's an aoe instant death that works super well, with the caveat that you dont get any exp for monsters killed by it

>It's a 4only retard thinking he's allowed to have any opinion
DQ is probably the best example of death spells in vidya

everytime i use hocus pocus i always get a bad effect, usually slow. I fucking avoid it like a pox now.

this is better than 100% of the cast, he can pull at max 2 menus when he's off stage, so it's practically guaranteed.
no one, except hero, has a free recovery like that, everyone has to grab the ledge.

just don't get pushed under the big platform or you'll hit your head. i see opponents all they time attempt to smash you into the underside, hero would be fucked under there.

>Basically can't recover without losing all his MP if he doesn't pull it
It's risk/reward, fuckhead. Use your brain for once

>Why are casuals so obsessed with what tourney players do?
Because Soccerguy has to subject us to the nerfs you whine for.

>In XI they have like a 75% chance to work on big monsters like trolls that would otherwise take forever to kill
Oh fuck, and here I was pouring all my points into 1-Hand Sword when I could have put points into magic.

is riskless what the fuck you now about that lol. it's like a toss coin, if you don't get Zoom, just jump, you were suppose to jump anyway, your default recovery will make it from the depths of hell anyway.

Just like SMT, magic is always the superior choice.

Haven't played online since the first week of release of this retardation of character locked behind a 25 usd.

Every single new DLC character is broken/OP because Nintendo needs to justify the price so all the baddies can have easy wins.

>Play against hero
>Throw me the fire thing and goes 0% -> 48% in 1 second
>Spells that covers all the screen

never again playing online.

Joker is not OP, he's just pretty good.

This.

>tfw accidentally top-deck Magic Burst, get hit by Falco's laser, and then he just b-throws me of the edge

Hero is actually the weakest of the 3 DLCs so far. People are/were sleeping on Plant until one got 2nd place at a major tournament, only being beaten by Abadango's Wario

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Want to name a few examples of this happening? You mean like the K. Rool nerf that only went through because Sakurai said casuals were whining too hard about him on Twitter?

>Gets rewarded by getting hit.

what kind of mongoloid thought this was a fair design?.

Imagine if Bowser became Fox in terms of speed by just hitting him.

Plant sucks, you can even compare it with Hero lol.

Great Sword is objectively better than 1H sword in DQXI. I found out the hard way. Switched after Puerto Valor and never looked back.

Joker is OP. Easily top 3 characters in the game.

Plant is better than hero, though. At least it can hit people that try to rush it down.

then why is nobody besides MKleo getting results with him? lol

Being good doesn't mean OP you absolute fucking sperg

Why did nobody besides Dabuz get results with Rosalina in Smash 4? That's not a legitimate criticism of Joker, that's just a deflection into a logical fallacy.

Plant is slower than hero, struggles against opponents with projectiles, doesn't have reliables combos, all his attacks are pratically useless.
He also is slower than Hero.

Kiryl memes aside, Thwack is shockingly useful, especially since it's learned by Priests, who don't really have a better option for defeating enemies as the Woosh line is really weak. I just got done playing DQIII for the first time and my Priest could clean house with Thwack all the way up to the final boss.

Rosalina wasn't even OP in smash 4, so your logic is flawed, she's nothing compared to bayonneta or even Cloud/Diddy kong.

>It’s another “Yea Forums doesn’t know what they are talking about” episode, competitive edition

The caveat is that most spells are totally worthless against bosses and you're better off saving your MP for healing, so a healthy mix of physical and magic is preferred.

Plant is actually barely slower than Hero. Brood's Plant beat Kameme's Mega Man, so he can actually easily play around projectiles. Hero doesn't have reliable comboes either. His normals are better than Hero's.

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She was OP before being nerfed and the DLC. Everyone considered her top 5 material. She got nerfed harder in Smash 4 than Bayonetta did.

well you don't really need to use healing magic if you got a stockpile of herb to chow. should be a final resort if you run out of it.

Healing magic is superior to items.

yet MP is fleeting and so are MP restoring items. it's all about using the lesser items to keep MP high for when you actually need to heal in a pinch.

She still was beatable pre patch, Not OP at all. Just look at tournament results.

It's been a while since I played the later DQ games, but basic healing spells in the older games cost hardly any MP, and there weren't any healing items better than the basic bitch herbs before you got shit like the Sage's Stone, but MP-restoring items started getting more common instead. I'm halfway through DQ5 and I've been getting showered with more phials and elixers than I'd ever need, but it takes three fucking clumps of medicine to heal my Slime Knight between battles. DQ just has weird balancing issues in a lot of areas.

>wannabe niggers don't like meme characters
Do they not like having fun?

Being beatable doesn’t mean a character isn’t OP.
Every single character in every single fighting game is always beatable.

Last DQ i played was 7 and items were a little more useful in the way i laid out. if only because I played the 3DS remake and i guess things just changed between sequels and remakes.

Bayonetta was beatable in Smash 4. Kirby was beatable in Smash 64. Meta Knight was beatable in Brawl. I guess they're not OP.

Why does RNG matter if Hero doesn't get consistent results and crumples against rushdown?

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In DQXI, the MP is hardly a concern. I never ran out of MP mid-boss. However, spamming Hussle Dance as Sylvando is basically a full heal on your party every time it comes around to his turn.

Thwack kills at zero sometimes because it also sometimes does NOT kill at 150%. And the chances of the former are much smaller than the latter.

>trying to take a single tourney where someone got a win thanks to extreme MU inexperience as proof that Plant is anything more than garbage
Puff won a big tourney once before too, is she secretly high tier? No, because Puff placing high is one in a million and I'm willing to bet we're never seeing this Plant in top 8 again.

>playing smash

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Hero is getting nerfs, but he's actually low tier.

That's kinda my point, make it more reliable across the board
RNG is cool but when its just a straight death it would be nice if the RNG was a bit more linear and predictable

>Tournaments
user why do you lie

It's weird how those images seemed to disappear for a while then made a resurgence when the clown and NPC ones didn't pan out.

>Who is Lucario

Brood has done well before.

Bayonetta is actually not bad at all, she just has an autistic playstyle of comboing from 0 to 50 then spending the rest of the time baiting out a kill.

Sorry , by beatble i meant, she did not always win, like meta knight did, like bayoneta did, like pikachu did or even fox.
the only notable tournament where rosalina won is Civil War.

Late but he's right.
twitter.com/Meshima_/status/1158857397420474368?s=19

You can't even call Hero pure RNG when his menu actually bends the randomness ONLY to help him out. Zoom is also about as expensive as an uncharged Up B so getting Hero to low MP doesn't matter when he has a 53% chance to get Zoom offstage. If he has his double jump he'll almost definitely get it.

>People cry that she's too good and she gets nerfed into uselessness in Ultimate
Actually she's a little better now. Just don't fuckin do any smash attack

Again because of the lack of players. Competitive players don't just choose the best characters all the damn time, that's how you get Jigglypuff being the current #1 in Melee because of Hbox maining her for a decade. I still don't think anyone would say Jiggs isn't top 3.

Hbox is the only Jigglypuff getting top 8 and MKLeo is the only Joker getting top 8, so they're both fine I guess.

The only real issue is Crits. Everything else is fine other than maybe Magic Burst at ledge being so good. His kit is reasonably balanced all things considered, he has very notable downsides to match the absurdly strong qualities of his specials.

However Crits are unlike any other RNG aspect of competitive Smash because there is no inherent set up play or counterplay to them and they are purely a "sometimes you die at 30% lol" mechanic, which is extremely counter-active to a competitive game. Crits are an element of his core kit and as such will be mixed in with normal play instead of just being a meme style option or so rare as to be a non-issue.

Compare this to say, Peach pulling a Bob-Omb. Not only is that much rarer, but when your opponent Peach pulls a Bob-Omb, you can see it, and you can change your playstyle to accomodate for the situation. Alternatively, for something like Game and Watch Judge where you can't anticipate a 9, there is instead a negative effect for the Game and Watch if he spams the move, low RNG rolls will result in negative effects for him.

When people discussed banning characters like MetaKnight or Bayonetta, it was a simple matter of "Is this character too powerful for a health competitive scene?" but with Hero, his balance isn't the issue, but rather his RNG and what it can mean in a match.

Also I don't think he should be banned, I just get the logic. I do think he should have his crits toned down or given some form of set up/counter play though.

Brood's plant is an exception, not a standard.

Maybe when Hero rolls a crit he has increased endlag to compensate for the fact that he could murder anyone at 40%? It wouldn't stop people from dying at 40% but at the very least you could punish him for spamming.

Dabuz didn't dominate the scene with Rosalina like Hbox did though, so it isn't a fair comparison, in fact, like i said, he didn't dominate that much at all and dabuz was by far the best rosalina in Smash 4.
The same applies with Joker, he's pretty good but' he's not op, he seems OP because the only player using him and getting results is the best player in the world.

People already got results with him, but there's only so many top players and they prefer to stick with their mains.

Zackary and Tweek both won stuff with Joker the week he came out, for example. A lot of people did this.

I'd say make crits a universal mechanic with the ability to toggle on or off. They're fun in casual play, but shouldn't be a part of serious matches.

i personally think Crits isn't the real issue, Smash Attacks aren't that common in a set.
The real threat are his other options which are more reliable and work in better situations.

When you say stuff like this it just makes me realize how stupid crits are as a concept. They suck in TF2, they suck in other games like Pokemon, and they especially suck here.
I hate the idea of everyone getting crits, Lucina's fsmash is frame 10. Imagine if she could land crits with that. Wolf's fsmash is safe on shield and already powerful, with crits it's just a nightmare.

but Joker isn't OP, he relies on setups which are hard to land if the opponent is good and in throw combos, which i wont deny, his no-arsene d-throw combo is pretty good.
He still nowhere as OP as everyone make him to be.

Hero has been banned by a literal who region.

Domino effect

imagine being so fat you use pizza to describe something

They're fine in Pokemon. RNG is an inherent part of a game like Pokemon, single or multiplayer. Even at a competitive level there is multiple different layers of RNG involved.

The issue comes when you put RNG in a place it otherwise wouldn't normally be and give it a strong effect.

>Just don't fuckin do any smash attack
I mean you can, but you better just be using them to style or for the jank hitboxes.

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top kek

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Smash isn't a fighting game so who cares what they deem acceptable or not, you man-children need to have sex

MUTHAFUCKIN BUCKET SHOES HAHAHA

Every Smash thread is like this. It's fucking hilarious and I have no idea how people don't realize how often they're outing themselves as total shitters.

IMAGINE BEING AT COMPUTERS.
SO FAT YOU LOOK AND SEE FOOD.

Literally rent free

you are the only one using food references here.

Thanks for betatesting all these new characters, buybros. I'll be sure to enjoy all the five DLC fighters when the season pass ends after they have been properly tested and balanced.

You're welcome, in the mean time I will enjoy raising my GSP with overpowered characters for an entire year.

The negative effect for spamming Hero smashes is the same as rolling a low number on judge, it has an assload of end lag. Saying there’s no downside to spamming Hero smashes is stupid.

i dunno why you can already buy characters individually. no need to wait for that :)

I don't get it. It's not like the Hero pauses the game and forces you to play along with his RNG. He's slow and sluggish and very easy to gimp while recovering. He's got a pretty good projectile but that's it. Is the smash community really so bad at the game that no one can react to 30 frames moves that you can literally read on a menu?

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Oh yeah and Magic Burst it's also a thing, but still.

>He's not OP except for this, and this, and this, and this, and this, and this. But other than that he's fine!

Magic Burst is the only thing i can agree needs nerfing, it's just too damn good for the price of your MP.

>Whining about a character who was an established bottom tier shortly after release to the point of getting him nerfed
Casuals do that to themselves though.

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People don't want to adapt.

No it really isnt, magic burst is a meme move that dunks scrubs.

it's the best edge guard move in the whole game. that's a meme, alright.

>he cares about GSP

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lol

Ganondorf can kill you in four hits, Incineroar can deal 80% in a single move, but I've never seen either lf them winning a Major. It's almost as if moves don't exist in a vacum.

This is a moot point because Hero is winning at amjors.

The only thing about it that needs changed is it's size and the launch angle. Keep it's size the same at 100 MP, but sharply declines below that and at 50 MP, a third of it's current size. Make the launch angle upwards instead of the Sakurai angle and if you come at it from below a stage, then you'll be able to just tech it. It will keep it's edge guard capability, while not being braindead.

Other thing you could do is increase it's amount of start up frames. Making it more dangerous to just throw out while someone is next to you, as is, you have 10 frames to stun Hero out of it before the hitbox becomes active. So let's increase it to 30 frames. That would make about a full second between Hero opening menu, selecting it and the move actually coming out.

Ganon and Incineroar can't do this.

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Fucking where

It's not that there's no downside to Hero smashes, it's that they're the exact same downsides as every other Smash attack, and that the effect of a crit is so devastating with no meaningful player interaction involved.

Spamming Judge is going to get you not just end lag, but self damage too. Even if a 1 roll is uncommon, its presence at all being possible stops you from abusing it in a competitive environment. Additionally, Judge is entirely its own thing.

In the case of Crits, the only downside is identical to literally every other Smash attack, while the move still serves the same purpose in a normal match as a Smash attack does.

Spamming isn't the issue here. It's not that Crits make Hero OP or abusable. It's that they make him uncompetitive. "lol you just died at 30%" or "lol I did twice as much damage at random" is uncompetitive.

That's pretty slow and deals 0 shield damage. It's not even close to being as good as anything from Snake's or Peach's kit.

Since when?

I don't have a switch, someone tell me what's wrong with this character

>It's that they make him uncompetitive. "lol you just died at 30%" or "lol I did twice as much damage at random" is uncompetitive.

so prevent him from landing hits then. he's pretty damn slow and often left open.

Good thing Hero can also do this, also who the fuck is talking about Peach or Snake?

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Look at and I think that sums it up quite nicely.

Ganondorf has no projectiles that deal 40%, Incineroar is forced to counter a strong move to be able to deal 80%, and they're both slower than Hero. What are you talking about, nigger?

Nothing. People just cant handle rng. He does his hard as fuck on certain attacks but otherwise prison islanders doesnt like rolling dice.

if you get lucky and your opponent is an absolute shitter you can kill super early

>just don't get hit bro!
Hero's Smash attack frame data is actually very average.
>Up Smash frame 13
>Forward smash frame 17
>Down Smash frame 9
Frame 17 is the average frame data for most Smash attacks in this game and Frame 9 is very fast. Fsmash has endlag but that doesn't really matter if Hero lands one and it crits and you die at 40%.

>Hero has an instant impregnation move

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Hero isn't OP nor is going to get nerfs
They literally would need to get rid of this dumbass rng.

He's not getting banned for being OP because he isn't. He's getting banned because of the retarded RNG he has.

>just shield everything all the time ever bro, and give Hero a free Menu
>wait no don't shield THAT, what are you, stupid?
>just rush him down bro, it's not hard
>wait no don't rush him down during THIS, what are you, stupid?
>haha le epic sal- I mean hoes mad xd
>maybe if I mention Smash is a party game or showers yet again that will suddenly undo all your arguments

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Please continue playing Hero online, I'm having a great time farming GPS with no effort.

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These people would lose their fucking minds if they had to deal with Faust

All they'd need to do is remove crits and rework the menu so every spell appears at the same time. It's pretty simple.

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>The Hero now can't roll Whack, Thwack and Hocus Pocus if playing with no items
>Magic Burst has less knockback
There, I fixed him

He's only been banned in South Australia, a very small and irrelevant region.

Hoes Mad...

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>b-b-but hero's frame data is slow!!
>user proves the only slow move is has is LITERALLY just his back air
>no responses

>>Zoom is almost always guaranteed when you're off stage
They won't take this away, it's obviously intentional. The ONLY thing that should be changed about Zoom, if anything, is that it shouldn't give you your double jump back after using it.

>shields
>reflects
Nothin personnel

>>haha le epic sal-
What?

Halve the crit rate and I'm down for this.

It doesn't. Unless you mean that you shouldn't be able to act out of it once you come back to the stage, which I agree with. You should have to land to get control back, no matter if you had the jump or not.

reminder that when smash ultimate was new people were sure that inkling, young link and mii swordfighter were s tier and complained about them. just let some time pass and either the playerbase will adapt or the devs will nerf him.

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>wahhh why do I actually have to TRY when fighting this character now? :(((
hoes mad

le epic salt, salt being something twitchtards say instead of "mad", for some reason there's a zoomzoom twitter meme about saying "hoes mad" and the Hero so now they're saying that instead

>if there isn't a single thing that invalidates the entire character 100% of the time he's broken
Ban everyone, then. Bowser can kill far easier and has a guarranteed shield break as fast as hatchet man. Peach, Luigi, and G&W are better characters overall and have more reliable and powerful RNG moves. Any heavy in the game has more reach, damage output, and kill power. Any fast character shits on hero. Reflect and counter both turn his RNG and slow shit against him. This is why he isn't winning tournaments.

*picks buffs instead of projectiles*
Heh

bro just don't get hit

>>just shield everything all the time ever bro, and give Hero a free Menu
>>wait no don't shield THAT, what are you, stupid?
>>just rush him down bro, it's not hard
>>wait no don't rush him down during THIS, what are you, stupid?
Whoa, you have to play the game when fighting him? Banned.

You can't do anything when Hero gets Zoom though, there's literally no counterplay since he disappears into the blast zone and has control over where he lands on top of being able to act out of his decent, so you just have to get really lucky and hope the Hero player dropped his controller or something.

You can go offstage and hit him during his Kaswoosh charge, you can't stop Zoom.

It literally does give you your double jump back. Open the game and use your double jump before using zoom. After you teleport back over the stage, buffer a double jump. He'll have it back.

to all anti-Herofags

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just counterpick with wolf or little mac

And now I'm in his face and ready to apply pressure he can't apply to me. Thanks for the easy approach, good thing shield and reflectors are safe and fast, unlike pulling up a menu and doing anything.

>and has control over where he lands
No he doesn't. Just watch where he is coming down and continue to pressure his slow ass. Keep lying.

>Bowser can kill far easier
Bowser doesn't have huge frame 5 projectiles.
> Peach, Luigi, and G&W are better characters overall and have more reliable and powerful RNG moves
None of them have instant kills like Hero, Luigi's Misfire can work against him while there's zero downside to Hero using Bounce or Accelerate or Kaboom.
>>Any heavy in the game has more reach, damage output, and kill power
No heavy in the game has a Charge Shot that does 40% or a Side B that covers nearly half the stage and is safe. Other heavies generally have worse recoveries or some other downsides that make up for their power while Hero can circumvent all of his issues with his menu.
>>Reflect and counter both turn his RNG and slow shit against him.
Refelct and Counter won't stop him from self buffing and kill you with a throw at 110%.
>> This is why he isn't winning tournaments.
Hero IS winning tournaments, he just hasn't won a major yet.

>go offstage to hit Hero out of his Up B
>he Zooms and lands on the top BF platform
>now he has stage control and I'm the one in disadvantage
Epic.
Also like said he can just jump out of it and do whatever he wants.

>good thing shield and reflectors are safe and fast, unlike pulling up a menu and doing anything.

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>No heavy in the game has a Charge Shot that does 40% or a Side B that covers nearly half the stage and is safe.
i agree, fuck lucario

>Character is heavily RNG-based and can kill people extremely early or even 0% if the odds are in his favor
>Character has also been out for less than a month, nobody is an established Hero player yet, and people are figuring out that his randomness is actually manipulable in some circumstances.
You're kind of a fucking moron to have a strong opinion one way or the other this early into his release.

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G&W 9 is an instant kill though and he can combo into it.

Hero is winning locals and literally every fucking character in the game has won a local. S4 Ganon, a bottom 5 character won locals in S4. Even fucking King K Rool has won a 400+ man tournament. Winning regionals, majors and supermajors or doing well at them is the shit that actually matters. Right now, Hero didn't do shit at SSC. We'll see how he does at Shine next (Hint: He won't do well).

>Reflecting Snooze with K. Rool
HAHAHAA GOTCHA BITCH

you guys don't even play ssbu, i'm the only real sbu player here

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Lucario is a midweight and has to be at like 120% for that, but I also agree Lucario's gimmick is bullshit, I'm so glad no one plays him.
>G&W 9 is an instant kill though and he can combo into it.
Completely unironically wrong, none of the "combos" into 9 are true.

>Hero isn't winning tournaments
>yes he is
>THOSE DONT COUNT

I agree though personally I have no issue with Hocus Pocus. Its a hard commitment that can fuck over yourself as much as your opponent. If you're madman enough to choose that its cool in my book.

Landing on the top BF platform is not stage control. Hero has awful air mobility and no way to hit below him besides a frame 16 dair, he's in disadvantage.

>top BF platform
>advantage
i'm on Yea Forums alright

You might be retarded if you think being on the stage while someone else is on the ledge doesn't count as stage control, also what if we're playing on a map with no platforms and Hero just lands away from you and resets neutral for free? He just got out of an edgeguard situation, a place where he SHOULD be the most vulnerable, for 4 MP and is now free to select another menu move or charge Kafritz.

This 5.99 motherfucker is better in every way to the entire cast.

>These are the people who want a hero ban

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>Hero IS winning tournaments
Cool lies bro. One local is totally "winning tournaments". And just like every other bad player that cries about Hero, you keep brining up lies like fast frame 6 projectiles as if the menu doesn't exist for that portion of your argument, and that Kafrizz is slow as fuck and eats almost half his MP. Other characters also don't have to deal with their moves being limited by a resource as omnipresent as MP. Kaboom wrecks his MP, Acceleratle is unweildy and temporary and doesn't change his ass frame data, bounce is just a temporary sign to rush him down or avoid him, which is easy because he is slow (if he has 4 buffs on himself at once, that's on you). Buffs are limited and don't fix his slow frame data or limited MP. Your arguments all amount to "well he's good if he outplays me", which is true of the entire cast.

>Completely unironically wrong, none of the "combos" into 9 are true.
Damn, better tell Maister his combos aren't really combos even though they work all the time.

>bounce is a sign to avoid him
>while you avoid him he spams buffs that lead to him breaking your shield with a single aerial

Nah, he's overall about midtier, you just suck major ass.

Lol, you literally just avoided quoting the bit before where I said to rush him down. Again, you are crying that there isn't a single catchall plan to win for free against hero. Make the call on whether to rushdown or play safe. You have to play the fucking game.

>What? I actually have to LEARN how to play against another character like I've had to do against 90% of the roster and git gud? BAN IT!
>N-no, I'm not a scrub, Hero is just OP and way to relient on RNG!
That is what everyone bitching/shitposting about this topic sounds like right now. There is a reason why Hero get less and less popular as you climb the GSP and tourney ladders, even with the advantage of being the new hotness.

>Kafrizz is slow as fuck and eats almost half his MP
Wrong.
>Fully charged Kafrizz takes 16 frames to come out
>Full charged Samus Charge Shot takes 16 frames to come out
Both moves have identical frame data but one kills much sooner and deals way more damage.
>> Other characters also don't have to deal with their moves being limited by a resource as omnipresent as MP.
Good thing MP is easy as fuck to come by, he gets 90% of his damage MP back every time he hits a shield, on top of +1 MP per second, meaning Hero can burn all his MP, nair you twice or land an ftilt and be back in the 70s. This is why keeping Hero at low MP is barely viable, since the most MP his Up B will cost is 15 which he literally gets back in a single hit.

>Acceleratle is unweildy and temporary and doesn't change his ass frame data
"Unweildy " is barely a fucking argument, he literally gets Shulk's Speed and Jump monado boosts at the same time except unlike Shulk, doesn't lose his kill power or weight. It also lets him drift in and out without effort, allowing him to connect bairs and still get away or rush in and cross you up with nair then run away before you can punish.
Also his frame data is fucking FINE.
ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
>F9 ftilt
>F8 nair
>F14 fair
His moves are laggy on shield but Accelerate negates this.
> bounce is just a temporary sign to rush him down or avoid him
What the fuck? Hero suffers no negative from having Bounce active, he can play the exact same and the only difference is you're completely locked out of your projectiles. Other characters with Reflects have to commit to them and can be punished after but Hero can shut down entire characters (like Villager or Duck Hunt) or force characters with a single projectile (like Inkling or Wolf) to have to contest with his sword moves because they lost their zoning tools.
>>Buffs are limited
Buffs are his most common menu moves and allow him to play safe or break shields.

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It's hilarious, sites like Smash Wiki list all of Hero's negatives, which are extensive and some are massive, and say that Hero is low-to-mid mediocre. Then you look on Yea Forums and twitter and everyone's screaming about how Hero is untouchable and unkillable claiming he has perfect framerate and all of his randomness works for him 100% of the time and that he completely and utterly destroys all that is good and holy and rapes their dogs and eats their parents.

Who should I believe, the experts or the tantruming children?

Attached: sigh.gif (380x283, 488K)

>Smash Wiki
>Experts

Another reminder that both K.Rool and Ganon was considered ''broken''/OP close to release aswell because scrubs hadn't learned how to parry/block yet.

Attached: Doom_Doot.png (632x738, 562K)

>they just test things and measure things and pay attention to things, that means they suckie duckie with fuckie wuckie xD!
So I should listen to all the retards crying about how Hero is the absolute best character in all of fighting games because of some RNG?

Yea Forums would fucking kill themselves playing real fighters since they refuse to learn matchup knowledge.

>Dragon Quest is getting endless free marketing off the tears of smashfags
We finally returned to the good timeline.

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Negative free marketing is not good free marketing.

You can test things and still be bad at the game, tell me all the majors GIMR has won for example. Shit, name a single Smash commentator who's also a good competitor. The only one I can think of is HBox and he commentates Ultimate but doesn't play it.

>Bans Hero
>Bans video games that are "too violent"
>Bans porn of girls with flat chests

Australia is basically a totalitarian shithole, at this point.

this

thwack, etc is SUPPOSED TO INSTANT KILL AT A LOW RATE, its how it works in DQ games.

you use it and have like a 5% or less chance to instant kill, otherwise it does nothing!

So Hero really does have frame-perfect attacks and is completely invincible because Whack and Thwack OHKO every single time they're used, as all the super-amazing competitive players claim?

>Bowser doesn't have huge frame 5 projectiles.
And neither does hero you mong. Besides, it is as small as a 1% charged Samus shot.
>Menu(20 frames) +/- Cursor (4 Frames) + Whack (6 frames) = 26 frames (at best) / 30 frames (at worst)

Why is Joker not treated the same then? No one besides leo gets good results with joker

Does Hero finally confirm what we all already knew? That Smashfags just cry ban for every new character.
Hero is solid yet everyone is screeching. Joker is top tier but no one is bitching about him any more cause Hero's out.

Good job sidestepping the argument, it sounds like you don't even understand why Hero is controversial, you should leave before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Joker actually takes skill to play until he gets Arsene.

With hero you can just spam neutral B and get random crits.

Joker is way better designed.

It's funny because Bayonetta had guaranteed 0-death combos on every single character in Smash 4 and Meta Knight could fly around stages and had broken disjointed hitboxes and priority with all of his moves in Brawl, but they never banned them

I know exactly why, because "waaaah muh RNG!". Unless that sudden;y became a non-issue and they're screaming about something else in the last twelve hours.

>hero is super punishable
This.
As long as you know how to parry the spells, he's extremely easy to deal with. He dies really early. Just gotta watch out for that lightning move.

>you can just spam neutral B
Oh yeah, using it twice and then waiting for your MP to recharge is such spamming.

There are plenty of good Jokers, just that none are close to MKLeo's level. Joker has things like amazing edgeguarding and confirms off of descending Gun and Arsene of course. People say he's the best character in the game which I disagree with, but he's definitely top 5/10.

Plant is a bad character that no one plays except one dude who skirted by because people don't know the MU.

I really wish they removed the get hit to get arsene shit. I actually want to know if im doing something wrong or if im getting rewarded for getting raped in the face.

>With hero you can just spam neutral B and get random crits.
No you can't, Hackurai himself even said that ONLY smash attacks have crits in the smash direct a few hours before Hero was released.

People talked at length about banning MK and Bayo but were too pussyfooted about it, then MK dominated Brawl and Bayo killed Smash 4.

Funny thing is, when people were saying Bayo was broken, the exact same kinds of retards who defend Hero appeared and said stupid shit like "just shield!" "Just SDI her combos! She's fine!" and look what happened.

What Tournaments? Smash con didn't ban him, Shine didn't ban him.

Except Hero is nothing like Bayo, she's fast and agile and has actual combos. Hero is slow, has awful framerates, no combos at all, and everything he does can be countered, shielded, and dodged.

Any exposure is good exposure.

>With hero you can just spam neutral B

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Some literal whos in South Australia where their best player is a K. Rool who stomped them all.

A single state in southern australia which had like 40 people weeklies, and yet people are acting like he's banned fucking everywhere. I was watching DBFZ videos and people are talking about it as if it's a huge thing, people are so willing to take anything that can make Smash look bad and running with it.

Smash Brothers players are the people who stopped playing fighting games when they were kids and it shows.

They didn't evolve with the genre and are still stuck in the mindset of "if I can't beat something without having to practice then it's 'cheap' ".

They're still the same kid they were 15 years ago, screeching at their neighbor because using Killik is cheating.

Everything anyone does can be shielded and dodged you retard.

So why is it so difficult for people to do it with him?

Everything he does can be shielded and dodged on reaction. It's all slow.

>said stupid shit like "just shield!" "Just SDI her combos! She's fine!"
Except this actually workls on hero, christ, you fuckers can try it yourself. Start training mode and use every RNG move on a shielding CPU, You'll quickly notice that atleast 90% of these moves can be blocked with little damage->moderate dmg to the shield or is so slow/has such little reach that it can easily be parried/dodged.

It works on Bayo as well you absolute fucking retard

But what if Hero uses Psych Up and kills my full shield with one hit? That's completely unacceptable!

>It works on Bayo as well you absolute fucking retard
It did, but thanks to the fact that she was a combo freak in a good players hands she would shit all over anything and anyone who didn't dodge 90% of her attacks. She could also do it consistently unlike Hero who needs RNG to be on his side for any of the shit he is being ''banned'' for to actually work.

"There's no such thing as bad marketing."

And the fact that it's smashfags and SJWs on Resetera/Kotaku bitching about Dragon Quest is just making more people interested in it. "Kotaku hates this game because it has lewd girls in it? Then it must be good!"

Attached: 1528741732954.png (2248x2200, 2.79M)

>Bayo rewards being good at the game, Hero rewards sheer luck, therefore Bayo deserves to be banned in Smash 4 more than Hero deserves to be banned in Ultamte

Ok

>Stockings with a fishnet design
>Instead of just wearing fishnets stockings
What's the point

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>hurr luck will totally make him win 100% of the time and dominate all the stinky times!

Nice projections nigger, I still play fighting games to this day with friends.

>top platform of BF
>stage control

Are you fucking mental? Unless you’re Little Mac it’s the worst position on that stage.

Based

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>Comparable to Sheik and Lucario.
>Has more weight than them.
I don’t get it.

It won't make him win 1000% of the time, it will make him win some of the time, and that's actually worse because it means that player ability, the thing that tournaments and competitions are intended to test, is being made less important

>>Bayo rewards being good at the game, Hero rewards sheer luck, therefore Bayo deserves to be banned in Smash 4 more than Hero deserves to be banned in Ultamte
That isn't/wasn't the case at all though, Bayos ''Step''/''Ladder'' was easy to do once you hade memorized it and at that point all the Bayo player had to do was find an opening (which was so easy anyone could do it on slow characters). But Hero doesn't have this advantage and the better a hero player is the less he/she will rely on his RNG since a good Hero player NEEDS consistensy to be able to win any match where the opponent knows all/most of Heros tricks.

So in essence, the better a Hero player is the harder he will become to play since he can't rely on his RNG as much anymore against evenly matched/better opponents. Hero is the gatekeeper character of Smash, just like Nightmare is in most SC games and Guile/Dhalsim is in most Street Fighter games

>bayo
>fast
>hero
>slow

Attached: 1523311502241.png (400x551, 127K)

Now I'm just more confused by your previous post. What has been going on prior to Hero in Smash that made you think you were on a bad timeline?

I miss that post about Dr Faust from Guilty Gear already.

Constantly fighting poisonous animals is why we're so good at processing alcohol. It's the price you pay to outdrink the rest of the world.

The one equating hero to him? Or the one pointing out that for that to be true, Faust's hammer toss should take off half your life bar?

ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
His startup frames are good to great, he just has endlag and even that is circumvented by his range, stop acting like he has garbage normals.

>Bayos ''Step''/''Ladder'' was easy to do once you hade memorized it
So... skill?

>Hero... will rely on his RNG
I agree.

So I'm not the only one who had that experience with Kilik. A lot of shit in that game seems OP until you read the fucking manual and realize you can fucking block and parry. Seriously if you're going to play a game would it kill you to learn its mechanics before bitching about it, instead of button mashing and hoping it gets you results.

I really want to put some effort into researching the other fightan characters with RNG and see how they stack with Hero, but I'm not invested enough into this argument to do it.

It's just Faust, you idiot. He was only a doctor when he was named Dr. Baldhead.

>Can't come up with a proper argument so just shitposts
TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME FAGGOT!

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It’s just muscle memory.

Dragon Quest was being completely ignored by its parent company and getting shafted in western releases. When a game even got released. We went decades with no Dragon Quest game being released at all. Nintendo had to release a bunch of them because SquareEnix were being whiny bitches.

And once again, Nintendo is handling the release and marketing for Dragon Quest XI on Switch. And doing 100x more than SquareEnix did for the PS4/PC releases.

I felt like adding a formality.

So... skill?

...

>all A button attacks are slow as shit
>fireballs move at Samus Charge Shot speed
>Side B has noticeable startup and end lag
The only thing Hero is fast at is falling, which only means he gets juggled and comboed easier.

Nigger people discovered ladder combos day 1 and she won two EVOs even after her pretty hefty nerfs. Hero couldn’t even get top 32 at smashcon

In the case of this, it's actually them coming up with a clever work around the Japanese censors. Japanese censors are cracking down harder on games. Now a game gets a rating increase just for showing legs. So to allow DQ games to retain the lowest rating, they're giving these kinds of costumes long leggings. And somehow the censors are okay with fishnet leggings.

Attached: 1515127642578.jpg (800x1142, 240K)

>Hero couldn’t even get top 32 at smashcon
He shouldn't have been in in it to begin with, RNG has absolutely no place in Smash Bros.

>>>>>>>>>>all A button attacks are slow as shit

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It’s only takes a small amount of it, if not none. Any basic combo takes a small amount of skill to do.

And? People thought Cloud was shit tier when he first dropped only for him to dominate doubles and be second after Bayo, Hero is only going to get better.

Are you going to actually post counterarguments and proof or are you just desperate for attention and think pretending to be a faggot gives you good boy point on Yea Forums?

Burden of proof is on you.

>>all A button attacks are slow as shit
This is totally wrong, why do you people keep parroting this when his frame data has been linked like 10 times ITT alone? Plus having below average frame data doesn't matter when you have a fucking sword.

>Hero is only going to get better.
And so are the players playing against him. Which is why he shoudln't be banned so quickly after release. Remember that K.Rool was considered TOP tier at release.

Hero isn’t gonna get top 32 at Shine. Hoes Mad

>Sorafag has been mad for over half a year now

So many people screeching different things. Who do I believe, the assmad stinkies or the people who actually research these things.

Because he'll be rightfully banned.

...

Only a handful of nonshitters want Hero banned. Cope, Seethe, Dilate!

Reminder that banfags literally have no ground to stand on and their two arguments have been utterly eviscerate time an time again.

FOX
ONLY
NO
ITEMS
FINAL
DESTINATION

CERO needs to just fuck off at this point. It's run mostly by old Japanese women at this point though, which is why their rating decisions have gotten even worse. Doesn't help that they didn't pay enough attention to one of the games they rated that had panty shots and had to pull all copies from stores and give it a C rating instead of the B it had before. Been fucking up releases ever since.

Friendly reminder that Herofags literally have no ground to stand on, and their single argument has been utterly eviscerated time and time again.

Thank fuck for this post.
I’m tired of people saying Hero is slow when a bunch of his moves are identical or faster than other moves while also killing earlier/doing more damage. His side B also has no fucking reason to be a Falcon Punch that covers all ledge options, 2 frames, is faster, lasts longer, and have it be charge.

Attached: Svoardfight.jpg (1280x1920, 542K)

>His side B also has no fucking reason to be a Falcon Punch that covers all ledge options, 2 frames, is faster, lasts longer, and have it be charge.
Because your feelings say so? If it's put in the game by the developers then quit crying and adapt.

So when will you faggots stop arguing about wether or not Hero should be banned and start arguing about the REAL issue at hand. If Saber got into smash would she represent the eroge or the gacha game?

I can't fucking adapt to it, it's overpowered and bullshit.

>ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
>ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
>ultimateframedata.com/hero.php
>ultimateframedata.com/hero.php

>f6 jab (average)
>f8 utilt (amazing for it's range)
>f9 ftilt (great since it's a kill move)
>f17 fsmash (average, great when you remember it crits)
>f9 dsmash (amazing when accounting for crits)
>f8 nair (great, faster than Ike's with a comparable radius around him)
>f14 fair (good, especailly when you realize how big it is)
>Zapple is frame 15, deals 25% and looks like pic related
>moves like Flame Slash are frame 6 and extremely big

Hero's frame data is perfectly fine, his only "slow" move is his backair which is fucking huge and kills. All of his attacks are minus on shield, except with self buffs he can make it so he can break shields instantly. Hero is fucking fine, stop pretending his normals are unusable.
Compare this shit to Shulk or Ike and find out Hero attacks faster than both of them.
>ultimateframedata.com/ike.php
>ultimateframedata.com/shulk.php

FUCK you Hero defense force retards drive me wild, you have no idea what you're talking about but still have the nerve to talk down to others.

Attached: Zapple.gif (1410x844, 1.54M)

Based.

Triggered.

Fuck forgot pic.

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It won't be that Saber, it will be Nero because Nero's game is actually on Switch.

These two posts need to be screencapped and posted in every thread over and over and over again.

Attached: 1527796391761.png (550x536, 477K)

Describe how RNG is any worse than Joker popping off an Arsene or two every stock. Or Peach pulling stitches when she’s already super good in most other areas. Or anything else the top tiers can do.

It doesn't cover all ledge options, the charge time means that you have the opportunity to drop off the edge and jump back up to him, you know, provided you're playing a character with a good double jump

It's not like magic burst, which actually does cover all ledge options

They're just scared that their new toy that lets them steal wins against superior opponents might be taken away from them because they're too shit to actually get good with any character that isn't heavily RNG based

Well you can DI in towards the stage and then tech for magic burst

People just ignore screencaps these days, gotta actually save the text and repost it every time.

Screencap em

>His side B also has no fucking reason to be a Falcon Punch that covers all ledge options, 2 frames, is faster, lasts longer, and have it be charge.
Nigger what?
>7 frames at the very least and at that point it is nowhere near a falcon punch
>The point where the real dmg would occur it will have taken about as long as a Falcon punch but will cost 42% of heros mana

I will give you the fact that it lasts longer/hits twice though. That shit is really fucking annoying to deal with on a slow/lightweight character

Me phoneposter me no screencap good

Look at all that startup and endlag and how short it lasts. Are people really so shit they can't counter this?

Magic Burst does enough damage and has enough knockback that it becomes untechable very early

>Because Neros game is actually on Switch
>Saber appears in that game as well
>Saber is literally the fucking face of FATE
Nero can be an ALT. But Nero isn’t the face of FATE. Saber is. She is more likely, although I’m certain they’ll pull a HERO and have Nero and Mordred be ALTS.

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You can cancel the end of the animation, there is no endlag.

I'm not so certain about that because they all have unique techniques and fighting styles that make them hard to homogenize, but I can guarantee that Saber Alter would be an alt so I suppose I'd be fine even if they didn't because she is cool as fuck.

>>Zapple is frame 15, deals 25% and looks like pic related
It is actually f16 and deals 24%dmg + it looks identical to simons FS
Hell I'd even go as far as to say that it IS Simons FS (with a slightly shorter range/width) but with more startup + a MP cost and more damage.

>but with more startup
Meant to write shorter total frames.

Don't forget it has super armor

Attached: chrome_2019-08-23_14-40-16.png (1325x480, 533K)

Also add the fact that you can move while charging it in the air.

Based. Everyone should save this to own the Libfags.

The what?

There's an error in that, Hero does become lighter during Accelerate

The spell is also called Acceleratle so there are two errors in that. Guess we should throw it out and start again.

Yeah, I noticed that when reading the first time, he dies earlier. user might have to remake his post.

>Wrong. Both moves have identical frame data but one kills much sooner and deals way more damage.
Samus charged shot deals 33% while Kafrizz deals 43% (if both parts hit, otherwise it is 26%). Kafriz also eats 42mp and has about the same range as a falcon punch/warlock punch. This means that Samus Charged shot deals more damage consistently at all ranges while Hero needs to pull a falcon/ganon and almost hug his target to be able to do more damage. It is faster than charged shot though.

>Good thing MP is easy as fuck to come by, he gets 90% of his damage MP back every time he hits a shield, on top of +1 MP per second, meaning Hero can burn all his MP, nair you twice or land an ftilt and be back in the 70s. This is why keeping Hero at low MP is barely viable, since the most MP his Up B will cost is 15 which he literally gets back in a single hit.
This is probably the biggest issiue with Hero, his MP generation is WAY to high. He would probably be more balanced if he had lower overall MP or much slower MP/S

>"Unweildy " is barely a fucking argument, he literally gets Shulk's Speed and Jump monado boosts at the same time except unlike Shulk, doesn't lose his kill power or weight. It also lets him drift in and out without effort, allowing him to connect bairs and still get away or rush in and cross you up with nair then run away before you can punish.
He also gains 2x gravity and it removes his acceleration. So I would argue that ''Unweildy'' isn't that far off

>Also his frame data is fucking FINE.
Dat it is, but it is not why people want to ban him. I agree that it is a dumb argument.

>His moves are laggy on shield but Accelerate negates this.
At the cost of fall speed and MP+RNJesus

Shulk and Ike have way better start-ups than Hero. You can actually see and counterattack Hero when he starts his attacks. Ike's nair alone can outspeed any of his attacks.

>no ground to stand on
No problem bro

Attached: zoomzoom.jpg (391x414, 15K)

Hero is heavier with bounce active.

>his MP regeneration is WAY too high
Yeah, that would be the one thing people should be complaining about. Same deal with Arsene, just do a quick combo on Joker or let him downb a couple moves and he's set.

AHAHAHA BUCKET SHOES

>his MP regeneration is WAY too high
1 MP a second is too high? And are you so shit you constantly get hit by his A attacks to let him recharge that way?

I could have done a better job but fuck it

Attached: HeroDownBMoves.png (1186x647, 67K)

Kafriz can hit further than a Warlock punch, I've killed a couple people halfway across the stage by just throwing them out. Do you mean the lightning move?

forgot to mention is from here kuroganehammer.com/Ultimate/Hero

Cont>

>What the fuck? Hero suffers no negative from having Bounce active, he can play the exact same and the only difference is you're completely locked out of your projectiles. Other characters with Reflects have to commit to them and can be punished after but Hero can shut down entire characters (like Villager or Duck Hunt) or force characters with a single projectile (like Inkling or Wolf) to have to contest with his sword moves because they lost their zoning tools.
It costs MP, is completely random with a fairly low chance of actually happening and does not start until (Menu f20 +/-cursor f4(Times how many times he has to move the cursor) + Bounce f6) at the earliest f26. He can also lose his chance at it if you hit him while he is using the menu. The fact that it lasts so long and he can move while using it is really strong though, I'll give you that.

>Buffs are his most common menu moves and allow him to play safe or break shields.
It doesn't really allow him to play it safe. Any rushdown character will be able to force him to topdeck his down+b and at that point it all comes down to the luck of the draw. And shield breaks can be parried/dodged + they are fairly easy to see and avoid.

His MP recharges even if you shield.

It's okay, I'm sure 4 and 5 will be ridiculously OP so even when Hero gets nerfed there will be two more obnoxious characters for me to main and get free wins. Banjo looks like shit, of course, but the other two will make up for it.

Kafrizz is the fire move, you stupid retard.

>Kafriz can hit further than a Warlock punch, I've killed a couple people halfway across the stage by just throwing them out. Do you mean the lightning move?
Unless the EU versions of the game is translated very differently (in english) there is no move named ''Kafriz''. The data that user pulled from seems identical to the move ''Kazap'', which is the fully charged side+b move. It does hit opponents further away but will deal less damage unless both parts of the attack hits heros opponent. It has a really high smash % though, so it is a pretty safe kill move nonetheless.

Just halve his max MP and he'll be balanced.

No, I meant regeneration from normals. His normals are not half as bad as you make them sound.

Lucario and the whole cast would like a word with you. A good lucario becomes a god at 70 percent. That shit is ridiculous.

Has Hero won a major yet? Why not wait until we have proven results of him being too good for competitive play before you ban him from competitive play. If Hero pulled up and started tearing through the circuit like Bayo did then, there'd be no argument against his strength, but this just seems like jumping the gun and whining until then.

>Banjo looks like shit, of course
How and why?

this, not even bayoneta started carrying people to glory until a month passed

>Kafrizz is the fire move, you stupid retard.
Just noticed that aswell user. But the way he worded it I though he had it confused with Kazap (Fuck DQ and their shitty naming conventions).

With that in mind I would say that Kafrizz is worse in most scenarios. Unless the hero is allowed to just stand there and charge it he won't be able to cast it so litteraly any character with any type of zoning can fuck him over in that scenario. It also takes about 1/3rd of his MP pool and 50+ frames to use while samus can charge it whenever and continue charging it every time there is an opening.

Hero has barely been in anything resembling a tournament. These people are screeching and pre-emptively banning him without any form of testing or actual tourney data solely because "MURR ARENGEE!!".

The rate of killing with Whack/Twhack is "technically" balanced tho.
It has 1% from 0 to 21, then it increases until 160 where it reaches 100%.
Hoes Mad

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It's Kafrizzle/Kafrizz or whatever, it's the fire move. That's what he was saying, but it wasn't the correct name/move he was referring to, hence why I corrected him.

Pretty sure was talking about pic related when comparing it to Samus, not the lightning move.

Attached: 170px-DQ3_Spell_Kafrizzle.png (170x174, 81K)

I think they said on the direct Hero can do the same thing. It's not hard to find space to charge it.

I searched for ''Kafriz'' and found different references. I once I searched for ''Kafrizz'' I found it. Feel pretty stupid about that one.

Yeah, it's not impossible (not actually that hard even) to do, but easy to punish if the opposing player is any good and plays a character with any type of zone control. Which is probably why you will see a lot of hero players charging it while the opponent is off stage since it is almost 100% safe at that point.

Who's that old guy?

>I think they said on the direct Hero can do the same thing.
Wait, do you mean ''charge, stop and then continiue charging that same attack'' or did you mean something else? Becuase Hero needs to stand still and do nothing for 50+ frames all in one go otherwise his charge will go back to 0%. And just like Samus, any kind of dmg will stop him.

my nigga

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You can say the same thing about items as stages, but with how much they change the game.
Fact is that people don’t need to play with x thing to understand when something is competitive or not.

Bad frame data does not exclusively refer to the startup fucking brainlets. Look at the hitbox on up smash.

Because the longer you wait to ban him the more players will come out saying
>"waah I worked so hard on this character why did you ban him Its not fair to MEEEEEEE!"
Better off just nipping him in the bud completely.

Are you talking about the people who want to ban him or the people who don’t?

People played on fucking Corneria and POKE FLOATS and shit like that for years in Melee. They were tested.

THAT UP SMASH
OH ZHU, POOR ZHU

>Morrigan can spam projectiles and there is nothing you can do to prevent a timeout.
>Legal.
>Hero’s aerials are slow and he needs to make space before he can pull out his suspect moves.
>”Ban-worthy.”

Why are you typing like that?

But you never tested all the other stages outside of Melee.
How do you know if the new stages are bad? Is it because they share elements of banned stages (like how Hero shares elements of several items)? :^)

That isn't how banning works. Characters aren't banned due to how similar they are to other mechanics in the game, they're banned due to how over centralizing they become to the meta. That's how any fighting game has ever banned characters.

How is Hero over-centralizing the meta?

See and also
>Deliberately ignoring his biggest strengths by going for his tiny weaknesses that are not really weaknesses

>This Game
>OTHER GAME

What did dobson meme by this?

So why isn’t Fox banned from Melee?

So Hero has no weaknesses at all.

Can DLC be nerfed? You paid for something.

Fuck those people then. If it's clear based on tournament records that the character is too good for tournament play then they can go back to playing the character they mained before Hero dropped. Right now we don't even have that information.

Why yes, aerials with normal speed are comparatively slow when all the top tiers are fast. If you can't run him over with your hyper offense character then that's your problem.

Because he does not overcentralize the meta. Being used the most does not mean a character is ruining the meta. Bardock is on every team in DBFZ for the most part. Does that make him ban-worthy?
He isn't.

That's a good question. The last time I saw someone nerfed for being massively OP, they sent out massive refunds. That's why they're scared to do it.

>Uncharged side b isn't a projectile or an energy attack
It's sad that you're hurt by such small range only affecting counter and not reflects, pockets or absorbs

Honestly I think the only nerfs Hero should get are
>Thwack/Whack nerfed so they can't instakill until high percents.
>Crits dealing less damage
>Make Side B/B/Kaboom less absurd.

And PK Flash can insta-kill in Earthbound which is funny because the Mother games are pretty explicit Dragon Quest clones, good game design should always trump staying completely true to the parent series.

Dude, you have PLENTY of time to menu cycle once or twice offstage since edgeguarding in this game is so dangerous.

>Just don't fuckin do any smash attack
Her ladder combos are gone now (which is fair, they needed to go as much as I loved them). How else am I supposed to kill? Witch Time bait into Fsmash is all she's got.

Why is edgeguarding so dangerous in this game?

In World of Tanks they nerfed one premium tank once. Ruskies went ballistic and they have not dared touch another one.

I'm not a tournament player but historically this has been a problem with banning any Smash character regardless of how centralizing they are (Meta Knight, Bayonetta). You can make the same argument for prospective Hero mains too, just keep ypur OG main and stick to casual play if you want to use Hero.

WAIT
FOR
A
FUCKING
TIER LIST
YOU
RETARDS

Quick reminder that Australia lost a war against fucking Emus.

Hero would rekt them.

Emus are fucking scary dude. On the other hand, Americans lost a war against fucking rice farmers with sharpened sticks.

Nigga both Corrin and Bayo were nerfed during Sm4sh's lifespan.

Many characters have many different recoveries. Some ledge snap, some don't, some have hitboxes, others, like Hero can stage spike you, some can weak stage spike you and force a bad air dodge. etc. Just a lot to memorize

F2P is a different matter than DLC for a paid-for game.
The expectation that you're paying for an advantage exists more-so in the former than the later.

Yeah. Basically it never happens. Heck, even looking at Smash 4 and how they left Bayonetta insanely OP with no patches to tone her down. I think Hero is going to be left alone and probably make competitive play very boring as everyone mass picks Hero.

>lol we're jumping ship from the Wii U early.
>Shouldn't we patch Bayonetta to make the playerbase happy?
>Nah, start working on the next Smash.

ssbwiki.com/Bayonetta_(SSB4)#Update_history
She was nerfed from her debut patch you stupid fucking illiterate cunt. Read the fucking thread.

>retard thinks tier lists have anything to do with bans

Lmao

Even worse, they knew they were going to make another Smash game as they were working on Bayonetta. It's why her model is much higher quality than others to the extent the game chugs on 8P Smash. Because they were already working on the next game. And they still left her in that state.

Because Tourneyfags prefer Fox. It's always about what they want, not actual balance. If they (or any competative players of any fighter) wanted true balance, they'd basically have to ban everything except the bottom tier or make everyone use the same top tier overpowered character. There's no way to have every character be balanced.

The tourneyfag scene started in Melee around Fox, Falco and Marth, despite them being overpowered. Everything since has used them as the standard. So being like that is okay, as long as it's balanced. Not bring like that (Meta Knight, Dedede, Bayonetta, Hero) means REEEEEEEE broken!

I'm not in the ban hero squad but this post is 100% correct. Can't forget that bounce also negates certain grabs from characters too. For instance, Falco's Dthrow, Bthrow, and Uthrow are ALL NULLIFIED by this spell.

Wait, why would it? He only shoots his gun for part of the grab, he still throws them. Were they too lazy to figure out how to program that?

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kek

>>Zoom is almost always guaranteed when you're off stage
Bullshit it's RNG just like all spells
>>thwack/whack killing at 0%
It's chance to instakill at 0 is so low you're better off doing almost anything else.
>>Pysch up not going away on shield breaks
It's a timed buff

based plantchad

>DQfags seething because people are treating their new toy like Sm4sh Bayo

>australia
call me when you stop losing to krool you buncha limp dicks

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Compared to someone who can just stand and take the damage to summon thing that makes him stronger

>It's chance to instakill at 0 is so low you're better off doing almost anything else.
dude, not him, but I got KO'd so many times at low % with whack that I must say it's bullshit.

Just found out the good news about David Koch, on top of Hero getting nerfed. Pretty good day.

Thats because its also dependent on Hero's rage, its only super low if your both at 0%

ARGH!

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What percent would be acceptable for thwack/whack killing?
For the record, I think it's perfectly fine as-is, but if it had to change, what's the new percent?

Just entirely take away the percent increasing with Hero's damage and make it completely dependent on enemy damage. Hero shouldn't get rewarded for taking damage.

there was quite literally an entire patch dedicated to nerfing her
granted it she was still SSS tier because god damn that's how broken she was, but to act like they didn't even try is bullshit

In DQ3, your party members are just nameless NPCs you can customize a bit, that's the default male wizard

"Hoes mad" is just code for "I have no personality, I don't even like Dragon Quest I just care about the Smash roster"

That's true up until you get to the last bit of the game, where going either Dual Wield or Sword and Board is the way to go for Hero.

Note if you have Hard Monsters on, going Dual Wield on Hero is kind of a suicide move during the post game.

To consider that patch "trying" is a joke, it was a halfhearted attempt to throw a bone at the complainers while leaving her insanely overpowered so that they could continue to make money off the DLC while working on the game they didn't tell anyone about where she'd be free in the base game.

>goalpost moving
cringe :(

The answer to Hero is to add in a new skin that's Alena, and give all her melees 2 hits and give her the 25% crit rate she has in DQ4.

Duh, cringe? Bringe?

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>A K Roolfag is responsible for this RNG tourneyfag seething
Why am I not surprised

How is a K. Rool responsible when he beat all the Heroes and proved that they weren't OP?

Also Thwack isn't even that bad in the DQ4 remakes, where they fixed Kiryl's AI (and more importantly let you take over during important boss fights)

Still, this does make me smile
youtube.com/watch?v=qfKO1UNSwIA

>this nigga been seethin and posting the same gif for fucking weeks
Jesus, user.

>and more importantly let you take over during important boss fights
You get to direct them in every fight.

In all honesty Thwack/whack should still have a chance at killing at zero. But it needs to be EXTREMELY negative on hit and all down-b spells should cost a lot more MP. And make crits tied to psych up.

Why do the spinoff DQ games like Heroes look way better than the actual mainline Dragon Quest games? Even the budget looks better.

yeah but who the fuck wants full control of every party member on random encounter fights

>this thread
>hero isn't even high tier

Thwack is already extremely negative on hit and he’s already MP gated hard.

I think being able to post Erdrick zzz really broke him. He doesn't know what to do with his life. He never expected Erdrick would actually be in...

I think the RNG is dumb and should let you manipulate it in some way so it's true psuedo-random so both the opponent and the player and play with and around it.
Remove crits and canceling the magic menu will instead "store" it for 15 seconds or something, and have Hero flash for a second like when Shulk loses a Monado Power to signify you can change the RNG again.
You can't even compare Hero to most other RNG characters that are already in the game like Luigi or Mr. Game and Watch because the RNG is only affected by one of their moves, and one is mostly used for recovering and the other is used to dab on other people.
And even then, Judgement's RNG is heavily against you in most situations, whilst Hero's RNG is mostly in your favor.
The only one that's comparable is Peach, with you never having any kind of "bad" RNG. And EVEN THEN, if the opponent plays correctly, they can catch your turnips and in some cases throw them back at you. Every character can catch items and only some can reflect/counter.
>Hoes mad
I haven't opened Smash since Joker came out. I just know bad design for competitive play when I see it.

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Hoes mad

They're like robots, aren't they? And they do it without Sakurai paying them. THEY pay Sakurai to do it.

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And people still call Smash a fighting game. Akuma wasn't banned in SF4 tournaments because he was OP.

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70%.

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Are you stupid or just an idiot?

why did you bump this thread from page 10

its funny. Because the part of your op that is a quote isnt in green text, but the first part which isnt a quote is