Can we discuss Tales of as a whole? From music, to gameplay and how it in many aspects modern Tales sucks?
It's like the series never grew up.
Every game features Girls vs Boys banter that kids grow out of by age 13, slaptick anime humor (with genuinely bad whimsical music) that should have stayed with Love Hina and a hate for the west. I do like Tales games, and I hope Arise steps in a more modern direction, but looking at Bears stuck on a PS3 engine featuring the same story since Symphonia has me worried.
I heard Baba was dropped right? Do any anons have insight on that? Has Bamco finally realized that being stuck in the lower points of the 90's isn't helping sales?
>character that uses one sword he tosses between both hands in tandem with punching being an alt for a character that uses two swords As expected of smashfags
Thomas Thompson
Are Lloyd, Yuri and Luke the only viable protags? Luke for Abyss being on 3DS.
>It's like the series never grew up. In some ways, I dont want it to. I dont want it to adopt any more modern trends than it already has. I just want my cheesy anime bullshit.
Ayden Ward
Then the style should work with it. It doesn't, not with (now last gen) modern graphics. It looks tacky. There's a lot of 80's/90's tribute games that at least get the era aesthetics right and thus, dated humor and concepts work. But pic related does not translate in realistic/anime styles lest you wind up with the secondhand embarrassment that is Star Ocean 4.
If they're going to make a push in a more modern direction, other points should match.
>literally not a single post into the fucking thread and there's already smashfaggotry I hate this board so goddamn much Please kill yourself
Michael Jackson
They were using the same engine from Xillia up to Berseria. Since Baba was fired, the series seems tti have been overhauled, hence the latest game. Some people don't like it, but I think the series needed a fresh change after being stagnant for almost ten years
Jack Ross
>Since Baba was fired So what did it? Rose? Low sales? With Japs its rare to see people get pushed from positions unless they're young or don't have much experience.
Jordan Sullivan
All of the above.
He left for SE to work on a mobile game. He ended up leaving SE too.
Blake Price
>get studio to work on your own game at SE >quit Really, what? I can only suspect it wasn't because he wasn't getting his dick sucked for no effort like at Scamco.
>It's like the series never grew up. But it did, thats why it sucks so much nowadays.
Grayson Stewart
I think the worst part was that it was story dlc too
Ryder Taylor
>Tales of Eternia HD never great story, great characters, simple and fun enough combat, a reasonable amount of minigames, lots of secrets to be found. instead, they are trying to make Tales more fucking gay every game.
Adam Carter
That was Alisha's major story- right? Or did it happen to Berseria too?
I dropped Zesteria like _hot coffee and have been considering just finishing with the anime.
Jaxon Sanchez
It needs a shakeup in the writing department. Hire them to write it.
>implying it wouldn't work Replace Jew with Elf and fart jokes with boob jokes and you have Tales comedy and fantasy racism.
Jaxson Cook
Nah Berseria's DLC was only costumes
Samuel Jenkins
tales of zersteria had such a great start after leaving the capital it went downhill extreme fast i lasted until the big knight town then dropped it after because the quest become so boring and unnecessary too bad i loved the character
Adrian Smith
how do i get this whore costume?
Robert Flores
I think Tales is fine mechanically, but aesthetic/storywise it has gotten pretty stale. I think a major shakeup in setting and tone might do well to help the series. I don't know if the Japanese fanbase would be happy with a Tales game that breaks tradition especially if it had a western writer behind it.
>Rose introduced properly post war >Hey Sorey, Rose is pretty great >Edna pushing Rose after explaining how much she hates humans >Sorey really, you should let Rose join you >But Alish- >Alisha sucked, Squire Rose now
Bittersweet is fine as long as it's executed well. Abyss is probably my favorite of them all because while we know Asch is kill it can still headcanon be open to interpretation if you really didn't want to accept it. Then you have cases like Xillia 2 where there's multiple fully animated endings.
I can imagine the protagonist being a missionary to a fictional religion. Who as he is beginning to lose faith discovers that his religion is real and an evil entity named Narmath from his religion has arisen again and is preparing to unleash judgment day upon the world. Most of the hero's party members are the only ones willing to take his story/religion seriously. Near the end we discover that the evil entity is actually from a different religion, and he gets mistaken for Narmath a lot.
>Did you post that to make a point or just- >filename >Right Oh
If Tales hasn't had a meaningful tone shift in over 20 years, kind of late for that, isn't it? At best the more distinct games have got have those hijinks to power all those skits and Tales festivals to sell merchandise. I guess the series insistence on remaining on home console during and after the PS360 could suggest enough time and money is spent on it to be worth the considering.
Just checked the Steam page, not there. Just the Evangelion.
>Boss battle is after a long unskippable cutscene, so you have to watch it again if you die and have to re-fight the boss Why does ToS love to do this?
Symphonia had a lot of tedious bullshit scattered throughout the game. Its why I cant stand the game anymore.
Brody Bennett
>Prove your worth >do time padding puzzles I really like Symphonia, but there's a lot of shit that fucks with the pacing and takes away from the greater parts of the game, like everything Zelos, Sheena's overall story and Presea's past.
Bentley Smith
>In another reality in which Zenrus and Lailah's plan did not turn out the way they hoped.
I chuckle at Lloyd being "sick of dungeons" by the wind temple and then barely making a peep about it afterward.
It's pretty fucking telling that Rose was 2nd and Alisha 3rd. The TV show retroactively made Rose the victim.
Zachary Sanchez
Alisha 7th*
James Watson
The next competition they should let yuri and leon back in now the mikleo is a character. Just to see which one will take the cake. They had to take leon out because he crushed the polls. Then the same thing happened with yuri. And after zesteria released mikleo is now taking all the votes.
Adrian Ross
>Implying Mikelo would stand a chance against the best
Thought I would toss in my 2 cents as a newbie to the series. I was told ahead of time that Zestiria is everyone's least favorite in the series, but I figured since I had no experience with the others I wouldn't know what I'm missing. I absolutely fucking loved it. Maybe I picked it up at just the right time to get value from it, I was going through bad personal shit and I really appreciated the whimsical characters, classic JRPG heroism and the straightforward good vs evil plot. I liked the music and the combat system of the game was fresh and new to me for a JRPG. The fusion mechanic didn't bother me becausw I was an autist playing alone and Rose was best girl anyway so no sperging on that front. Went on to play Berseria and it didn't gel with me as well initially, wife-tier chick gets edgeified and everyone hates each other. But I really enjoyed the combat system even more and by the middle of the game I had really grown attached to this band of misfits and the way they got on with each other. I thought it was really neat how it began to fit in with the previous game, and Magilou was best girl. really enjoyed both entries I've played in the series so far. I've just started Vesperia and I am once again enjoying myself. I've only gotten to healing the barrier tree but Yuri gives off that "I'm a laidback cool guy" swagger and Estelle is top cute. I like the dog and I'm warming up to the kid as well. My main issue is that the combat seems... clunkier, for lack of a better word. I get that it's an older entry in the franchise but even still. The other 2 games had the sidestep dodge mechanic, you could just guard for bonus SP and shit. So far it seems my only choice a lot of the time is to tank a bit of damage because there is no dodge and the block is slow to come out after a combo. Am I missing something really obvious?
Absolutely disgusting. Why do nips have such awful tastes?
Adrian Ramirez
Because they have a history of obsession with actual shit.
Cheria is by far one of the worst girls with one of the worst designs to match in any JRPG I've played but nips love her along with SO RANDUMB OMG XDXDXD Pascal who appeals only to autists.
In the 3D games without a sidestep you are meant to guard, backstep, and in most games free run to get around enemies, yes, with guard reducing damage by like 80%. You might not have access to the latter two yet. Vesperia's movement is a bit slower than some of the others in it's style.
>the mythical specimen of Yea Forumsirgin that can look past a game's flaws and enjoy it for what it is You might even be able to enjoy Legendia too for more than the cute girls I mean
>get based Go Shiina on the music for Zest >only use him for like 5 tracks >everything else is sameface: music edition Hoping with Baba gone we'll get something on par with Legendia and Vesperia in terms of quality and variety.
The game's combat slowly improves as you level and gain skills from weapons. It is far more satisfying to play than Berseria or Zesteria by the end. Try out Rita later, she's fun
>any other tales game first dungeon >ho-hum sakuraba quiet bumbling forest music >legendia first dungeon >MEEEES XEL NES NEEEEN IREL IREEEES QEL WEEEES Jesus fuck Shiina chill the fuck out
Not him but this is actually lower than it was before.
That shit was hilariously ironic. >The head writer and director both warned that pushing Alisha would just hurt the story because her character makes no sense. >Ufotable pushed Alisha anyway >Alisha makes no sense >the anime tries to say game Rose is wrong >ends up justifying her instead
Sebastian Gomez
>Jesus fuck Shiina chill the fuck out Reminds me of the super unrelated but applicable FFXIV and the first dungeon of the most recent expansion having sick guitar riffs and strong violins. Namely because literally no one was expecting such a strong song for the first dungeon.
I'd pay good money to hear Soken and Shiina make something together.
>Alisha makes no sense It would have been so easy to keep the politics and just slow Sorey's affliction to about mid point or further down the line. She was in the party for like an hour and poof. I like how she got shat on by that one merc for being all about duty and honor when that's not gonna help grieving families.
It would have been an opportunity to make her more pragmatic and be torn between Sorey and politics. But nah, Rose though.
The manga had already fixed everything, and by then they already wrote out the rules that shepherds have to follow which Berseria emphasized it further so people accepted that Alisha couldn't armatize or be a squire because she (not Sorey) was too weak. Besides, Berseria showed that world would be very different if anyone could be a squire. And also showed that being a moralfag wasn't optimal for saving the world.
So when the anime went against that explanation because they wanted to make it up to Alishafags which people didn't like.
Carter Johnson
Ironic weeb.
Leo Adams
Politics and Shepherds don't mix. That's exactly what fucked over Artorius's predecessor. Shepherds can't be loyal to one country, and Sorey can't put Hyland first which isn't something that Alisha would have been okay with. Alisha has no resonance so Sorey's contact made up for it by taking his eyesight. This actually started from the moment she joins but the characters don't talk about it until Marlind. And Sorey getting stronger wouldn't have helped her because Alisha's ability depends on Alisha's resonance.
Accordingly she wouldn't have been able to handle the reality of the world that early, and just would have dragged Sorey down because she wouldn't be willing ite able to kill or purify enemies. Basically, she'd be dead weight.
Brayden Hernandez
It's almost like this could have lead to an interesting and engaging character arc, rather than shoveling her off for a Mary Sue that actively hurts Sorey's own development by never making him really face his hangups.
Chase Wood
I understand that, but there were better ways to write her out. Being a shitty rushed project didn't help, but it was so unnaturally abrupt with the sting of Rose is soooo special afterwards. They pushed Alisha in the media which didn't help either. It was overall poorly done.
Assassinations aren't bad XD stopped being an interesting concept when brought up over and over in such an aloof way.
Julian Kelly
Thing is though, they wouldn't have been able to justify Sorey keeping her as a squire when she's dead weight.
Also it's the other way around. Sorey wasn't able to kill before Rose joined and her only duty was to challenge that mindset so that he could defeat Hedalf, which has exactly what happened. Alisha is a moralfag so she wouldn't have challenged Sorey's mindset. Which is exactly what happened in the anime, Alisha can't help Sorey to become a better shepherd.
Luke Howard
They admitted to alerting the plot for Alisha's character, which makes me wonder if her moral faggorty was originally was going to get her turned into a hellion and maybe killed.
Lincoln Gonzalez
One of your primary issues is that you're basically back arguing from the perspective of the world as-is, when most of the people arguing against Rose or for Alisha (not necessarily the same position) are arguing from the perspective of the world as it could have been. Don't forget this is a videogame, and the lore/setting at play here was not an adaptation of anything prior. There was nothing stopping them from having different lore, or altering the lore so there was something Alisha could have done to improve, or otherwise add some kind of plot element or device that would let her 'bridge the gap.' But they didn't. So all of Alisha's personality issues, which are in the game regardless, that could've been explored interestingly are instead dropped immediately like a hot potato. And then we get shit bitch Rose instead, who is utterly unlikeable and sabotages Sorey by taking care of all the dirty things for him so he never has to really grow and face his duty himself.
James Perry
>which makes me wonder if her moral faggorty was originally was going to get her turned into a hellion and maybe killed. An interesting outcome. Spend 1/3 of the game with her, add some actual political/moral conflicts on both ends. Massive suffering on par with Abyss and Xillia-2. Kill Alisha (perhaps add loli next in line to the throne so the royal lineage isn't just dead), Rose comes in right before Sorey goes full Calamity Ganon and the plot advances.
Caleb Baker
Any news about Arise
Jace Walker
If not later in the week, then certainly by Tokyo Game Show.
Jordan Sullivan
Not really, they already explored what could have been if the lore was different and or was worse than what we got.
In this case too changing the lore for the sake of one pointless character opens up more problems. Fot instance, if shepherds can make anyone their squire then why didn't Michael do this, or any shepherd before him for that matter? If there's no problem with shepherds engaging in politics then why didn't the others do so? The anime tried to hand wave this shit away by saying "no one ever tried" which is bullshit. And keep in mind Berseria also uses the same lore as Zerseria, so altering lore would also fuck with Berseria's story, and all for one pointless character.
Alisha is a friendless Chunni, she barely understands people herself, so she'd be the last person who could bridge any gap. Also the only one that Rose took care of for Sorey was Cardinal Forton. Sorey had to kill Hedalf and the sisters himself.
Plus while we're on the subject of Rose fixing her so that she makes these things more apparent is retardedly easy. The manga did it in 10 pages.
Gabriel Morris
>Alisha is a friendless Chunni, she barely understands people herself, so she'd be the last person who could bridge any gap. And that's what character development does. She was not allowed to develop despite having her face and hot pants plastered on every promo.
Austin Rodriguez
>Not really, they already explored what could have been if the lore was different and or was worse than what we got. No they didn't. This is just a brainless dismissal. >It opens up more problems Only because you lack creativity and propose extremely minimalist changes. People aren't just critical of your stinky waifu, the entire lore, setting, and story of Zestiria is a trainwreck. It needs a lot more rewrites than just Alisha, she's merely the most visible issue at play here. >Anime The one that didn't change the lore so it didn't do what I suggested, at all? >Altering the lore would fuck Berseria Berseria didn't exist at this point you cretin. We have no idea if, or in what form, Berseria would exist if Zestiria hadn't been a massive trainwreck. It's entirely outside of what I'm talking about. >Alisha is Goddamn you don't understand the concept of character development at all, do you? It's about people changing and overcoming their problems. What a character 'is' is irrelevant. It's about what they can become. I want to clarify something here, I don't necessarily like Alisha or care about her much. It's just that how she was handled was abortative and I despise your waifu Rose. >Muh manga Nobody cares about your patch job. We're talking about redoing it from the start.
Luis Sullivan
The guidebook makes me think that they originally planned to kill her (Alisha was called a failed honey trap because Sorey in reality wasn't too attached to her) would have made Rose telling Sorey that he has to kill, and Sorey not disputing that fact make sense. Also Alisha isn't directly in line for the throne but she was a council member so she had plenty of potential influence, she just never took advantage of it because she was too busy larping (which is why Sorey says that she fucked herself over later on).
Christopher Bell
>Originally I highly doubt Mary Sue Rose was the original intent, waifufag.
Ayden Johnson
>Fot instance, if shepherds can make anyone their squire Why does the solution need to be for her to be a squire when we're talking lore rewrites? >Shepherds engaging in politics Why do you presume the only thing they can do is make Sorey political rather than have Alisha learn to put aside just her own country's interests for the greater good? >Alisha is a friendless Chuuni And why couldn't she have had an arc about opening up to people and understanding the real world?
Adam Robinson
Berseria is the only tales game I've played. I loved it and I have pretty godly taste in videogames, which mean the tales fan base is sòy and has shit taste since it seems most tales fans hate berseria. I don't think this semen slurping fan base is for me.
Nathan Scott
>she had plenty of potential influence, she just never took advantage of it because Because everyone else on the council was hostile to her and one excuse away from having her disbarred or executed. Did you miss that bit?
Cameron Sullivan
>And why couldn't she have had an arc about opening up to people and understanding the real world? This is what I want to know. Natalia was able to. And she got to be a useful party member.
Berseria did okay. Most hatred I see is residual Zestiria hate or "waah she's a girl" shit from Yea Forums.
Michael Rodriguez
Tales fanbase is divided as fuck because every game has different strengths so combat autists like one game while waifufags like another, some just want a good story etc.
Hunter Gray
>No they didn't. This is just a brainless dismissal. The anime actually changed the lore so that Alisha could be a squire, it didn't help anything. >Only because you lack creativity and propose extremely minimalist changes. People aren't just critical of your stinky waifu, the entire lore, setting, and story of Zestiria is a trainwreck. It needs a lot more rewrites than just Alisha, she's merely the most visible issue at play here. Rose isn't my waifu but you're getting awfully heated on that subject of Alisha to make me think that you're not just an Alishafag
>The one that didn't change the lore so it didn't do what I suggested, at all? So you mean to say that in the game dragons can be purified, shepherds purify things by absorbing the malevolence, Sorey's resonance can allow other people to armatize even if they don't have any resonance? >Berseria didn't exist at this point you cretin. We have no idea if, or in what form, Berseria would exist if Zestiria hadn't been a massive trainwreck. It's entirely outside of what I'm talking about. Except Berseria was made using Zestiria's lore and judging by how quickly it came out it was likely written alongside Zestiria. They already knew from the start that Berseria was going to be a prequel. So altering Zestiria's lore would alter Berseria's as well. >muh character development That's not what matters when she joins the group, what matters is what she can bring to the table. And for Alisha it's nothing, there's no reason for Sorey to travel with her, because unlike everyone else her presence doesn't benefit the group. They also don't have similar goals and she's more of a hindrance than anything. Why should Sorey put his goals on hold for delusional bitch that he barely even knows? >w-who cares if they fixed anything it wasn't done the way I wanted it to Uh huh.
John Gonzalez
>some just want a good story etc. More like a fun story. They all follow the same formula while being different like Final Fantasy, but some are better than others. Vesperia was great because it was mostly watching what Yuri would do next in wake of prior protags being all about morals and honor/duty.
Yuri just wanted people to stop fucking with him and his friends.
Tyler Evans
>The anime changed one bit of lore Wow, amazing rewrites there. Come off it, you know I'm talking about shit way more extensive than that, and want nothing to do with making her a squire. >Rose isn't my waifu but you're an Alishafag No, I think you're stupid. Your lack of creativity is frustrating because when I told you they could have done all kinds of rewrites, you defaulted to the two-three minor lore changes everyone always falls back on. >This long spiel about the anime It's almost like I never defended the anime at any point, and how none of that shit addresses what I'm talking about at all. >Except Berseria... I'm gonna stop it here and repeat myself: It didn't exist. We have no idea what it would be like Zestria was different. Full stop. Any statement about it is nothing more than pure speculation, and completely beside the point of discussing how they could have improved Zestiria's lore and story in regards to how it handled Alisha. >That's not what matters when she joins the group What matters is how engaging she is as a character. Sorey isn't real, this is a videogame. >What matters is what she can bring to the table. And for Alisha it's nothing In the abstract. That's why my initial suggestion focused entirely on there being some way for her TO contribute tied into her character arc. Starting out as a hindrance then becoming an asset is a classic character arc, done time and again and even touched on in Tales before. I'm not suggesting anything odd. >Why should Sorey put his goals aside Nobody has ever suggested this but you. Everyone else in this conversation has been posting about how Alisha could have learned to put aside her naive goals for Sorey's. >Who cares if they fixed anything They didn't. Giving the bitch Rose a spiel doesn't make her a better character or story influence.
Joseph Brown
Uh oh Alishafag is mad.
>Why do you presume the only thing they can do is make Sorey political rather than have Alisha learn to put aside just her own country's interests for the greater good? Because it would go against her character, and against common sense for the other nobles. Why wouldn't they want to take advantage of the shepherd considering how powerful he is? Not to mention Hyland's socioeconomic in nature, traveling with Sorey wouldn't benefit her because she'd would be removed from Hyland.
>And why couldn't she have had an arc about opening up to people and understanding the real world? She already does though. And besides that Sorey isn't well traveled either so she wouldn't be able to help him in this area since he's actually better at interacting with people than she is. So again her presence doesn't benefit Sorey.
Chase Davis
They could have, they just didn't want to because it would interfere with the Rose variety hour.
Robert Hill
>That's not what matters when she joins the group, what matters is what she can bring to the table. Did you also think this when Luke was an inferior Guy, Sheena being overall bleh and Leia being the worst party member in Xillia?
>Because it would go against her character Hello, welcome to character development. It's about their character changing for the better. Are you this poorly read? >She already does though She has less character development in-game than a character in a Dr. Seuss book.
Aaron Hill
He's talking about from an in-story perspective, but then he ignores shit like Luke being a dead-weight and active hindrance until he slowly overcame his inexperience. His entire argument is founded on ignoring the possibilities in an argument about what could have been different, that's why I called it back-arguing.
William Bell
The nobles were hostile to her because she talks down to them like she did with Lucas, did you miss that? They tells you about n it after they see her in the bridge. And that that fat nibble got her to actually make use of her position by blackmailing her into not acting like a moralfag around them.
Jeremiah Hall
What's another good tales game for someone that liked the Berseria cast so much that they managed to overlook how shit everything else was?
Dominic Flores
If you like a plot about dicks and assholes coming together to save the world, then you might like Abyss. If you like relatively strong casts in general, people like Vesperia and Eternia.
Hudson Fisher
Except the group were given an actual reason to travel with Luke, because whether they liked it or not he was officially named the ambassador. If he wasn't then they would have fucked off(which they did). Leia wasn't a hindrance and neither was Sheena. Alisha is a hindrance, and the party has no reason to put up with it.
Julian Scott
>Except the group were given an actual reason to travel with Luke And remember that this current argument is about lore and story rewrites for Zestiria. Rewrites. Plot elements can be added, removed, or changed. Alisha could as well have had a reason to tag along.
Wyatt Foster
Alright, I'll check those out. Any particular version of those I should prefer or avoid?
Benjamin Young
Only big thing is to get the recent rerelease of Vesperia, it has all the formerly Japan-only content.
Isaac Anderson
>Leia wasn't a hindrance She literally was and admitted to how shit she was.
>Hello, welcome to character development. It's about their character changing for the better. Are you this poorly read? So your're saying that her character should do a 360 the moment she joins?
>She has less character development in-game than a character in a Dr. Seuss book. Because there's not much for her to do, heck her story isn't even important narratively.
>Wow, amazing rewrites there.
Except those were the kind of rewrites you were talking about >No, I think you're stupid. Your lack of creativity is frustrating because when I told you they could have done all kinds of rewrites, you defaulted to the two-three minor lore changes everyone always falls back on. >I- I'm not stupid you're stupid. How dare you not agree with me. Compelling argument user. >gives examples of the anime changing the lore >t- that doesn't count user please. >ignores the point And why should Sorey who is on a mission keep around a person he barely knows, has no obligation to, is an active hindrance to said mission? Why should she even be there? >They didn't. Giving the bitch Rose a spiel doesn't make her a better character or story influence. So you didn't read the manga, okay.
Austin Campbell
Which then begs the question of why change shit to that level that doesn't need to be changed to keep around an irrelevant character? What's the point?
Nolan Ross
Because Zestiria is garbage all around and needs extensive rewrites in every sector, might as well fix the Alisha plot while you're at it.
Connor Johnson
>keep around an irrelevant character You keep pushing this and completely ignoring what the outcry was primarily about. False advertising. Alisha is not irrelevant, she has a place in the story and initial everything. She's the first human Sorey meets and is what initially brings him out to the world. He gets the royal knife to open the ruins beneath Ladylake because of her, and he learns his limits as a Shepherd taking on any squire.
>So your're saying that her character should do a 360 the moment she joins? Ridiculous hyperbole just makes you look biased. >Because there's not much for her to do Which could be different under rewrites, that's part of the idea.
Isaac Hughes
>Except those were the kind of rewrites you were talking about No, I suggested >There was nothing stopping them from having different lore, or altering the lore so there was something Alisha could have done to improve, or otherwise add some kind of plot element or device that would let her 'bridge the gap.' The only working solutions I provided pointed to either a) making there be some mechanic where she could improve her own resonance, rather than being a leach on Sorey. and b) Add in some other plot element or device that would allow her to keep up with Sorey without relying on resonance. Neither is meant to be comprehensive, but rather to illustrate a point. >Compelling argument It's not an argument. It's a statement. >That doesn't count More like "that's not the sort of change I suggested so it's irrelevant to my argument." >And why should Sorey keep her around... See, here you quote elements of the plot as-is. We're talking about plot rewrites. The 'why' is obviously part of the rewrite, user.
Daniel Brown
Having extraneous party members isn't anything new for Tales. Repede, Malik, Rowen and Rokurou (just off the top of my head, I'm sure there were plenty more) contribute nothing to the story outside of their own personal problems, but the writer comes up with a bunch of excuses keep them around anyway. I remember when Vesperia ps3 came out, some people complained that Flynn joining the party didn't make sense, but that still worked out.
Easton Parker
You do realize that the core plot for Zestiria is basically the chosen one story? It's the basic bitch story to the point that you could fix Zestiria without trying to push in a pointless character or even altering the lore at all.
Heck fixing it from the ground up.
For instance switch Mikleo around Mikleo and Rose's genders. Make the relationship between Mikleo and Sorey explicitly romantic. Have them talk about the differences in their races. Mikleo knows that she can't give him things that a normal human woman can and Sorey knows that he will die before her. Have them work on that in the story ending with their relationship being even stronger in the end. Have Rose be a vigilante (since Rose doesn't even take money for hits anyway and is known for doing some Robin hood shit), his family gets involved with a prince who was attempting a coup. Prince betrays his family and fucks them over, he acts like an older brother to Sorey. Dezel is the seraph that Rose's family worshipped and the one that saved Rose that day, he gets killed later on. Lailah is the same but she actually tells you why you why Sorey shouldn't copy past shepherds, she was in love with Micahel which is why she has a hard time talking about him. Have Edna have an arc about wanting to understand her brother more and wanting to see the world that her brother saved. Zaveid stays the same but just play up the fact that he knows a lot more about the shepherds than even Lailah.
Alisha is the side character, a princess with her head in the clouds, have the Hyland arc just emphasize that the malevolence originated from the socioeconomic problems. Her mentor dies telling her to wake the fuck up and she does, and ends up as a politican.
Hedalf is Sorey's father, who first shows up in human form. Sergei is a relative of Sorey's who Sorey gets to know. Have Sorey get to save more lives and interact with others with high resonance who can also can and will talk to seraphin in the party.
Etc.
Wyatt Sullivan
>Ridiculous hyperbole just makes you look biased. Except it's not a hyperbole the change you want to occur can't happen that fast.
Alexander Collins
It's hyperbole because I never said it had to be instant like you claimed.
Henry Price
>Rowen >PLEASE PROVIDE SUPPORT I liked him but I don't think I ever had him in the party. His old man with loli caretaker dynamic with Elize was cute and all, but I distinctly recall him not mattering much outside cutscenes. Malik felt like he was shoved in just to fill the old man quota.
That's not what user is arguing though, and for that the answer is simple just don't push her at all. Sorey actually says that he was going to leave regardless of whether or not he met Alisha. Sorey was chosen as the next shepherd from the moment he was born, and his grandfather was in on it. Her job is to show Sorey that he's human and he can't save everyone, sometimes people have to save themselves. Which is why she doesn't stay in the story.
Adrian Young
If her goal was to be so simple they wouldn't have given her part of an arc or made her playable. Those things are unnecessary in an NPC.
Asher Edwards
>No, I suggested # Which isn't disproving anything I just said.
>The only working solutions I provided pointed to either That mechanic already exists but Alisha can't make use of it because the person that can do it turned into a hellion. And none of the seraphim were fond of Alisha enough to help her out, especially since she was already a ticking time bomb. Heck for the mechanism, Sorey isn't the first shepherd is an mechanism exists that can increase resonance why didn't the other shepherds find it? Why didn't they use to increase the resonanxeof everyone in the continent? Hell how did it even survive thousands of years? And what about before Alisha finds it she's still a pointless hindrance that Sorey barely knows and has no obligation to. It comes back to the same problem. >More like "that's not the sort of change I suggested so it's irrelevant to my argument." You made a point "the anime never changed the lore" and it was wrong. The anime did the change the lore and it didn't help the story. >b- but muh changes Well then the first thing you should think about is why should Sorey keep Alisha in the party. You only consider keeping her around because you like her so to you it's obvious but in the game's story proper there's no reason to.
Joseph Baker
The devs actually admitted that the only reason for her being playable is because they liked her design but her purpose was really that simple. Alisha could easily be an NPC.
Henry King
I totally believe the whitewashing they did to cover their asses.
Nolan Mitchell
>All these quotes from the current lore I really don't get why it's so hard for you to understand that this argument is founded on them changing the lore. What is even the point of us talking if you ignore that just to restate the current lore over and over? >It was wrong I said it changed it in a minor way. And then I said it didn't even do so in the way I was referring to. >The first thing you should think of is why I can, it's just that since I, you know, am not the writer any solution I come up with is just a demonstration. Perhaps Alisha has to run away because the council moves against her early, perhaps she's fucking clingy and they can't force her to leave, perhaps she's the only one with knowledge of, ability to use, or access to a plot device they'll need later (similar to how she has one early in the game.) All of these simply demonstrate the point I already made: that they could've easily changed the plot so she stayed and there was a reason. Just like they could change the plot to delete her (or preferably Rose) but I prefer to argue from a constructive rather than destructive direction. >You like her Cute, you put words in my mouth yet again.
They actually they started saying this shit before the controversy really hit, and admitting that they waifufaged a character that hard isn't whitewashing. Even Nips realized that Alisha especially after the Ufotable incident.
Logan Hughes
Or they realized the anime sucked, rather than starting to hate the character. Don't project your feelings onto people whose language you can't even read.
Ian Harris
user no one can read your mind and if the lore is fucking with your fanfic that hard, then that should tell you just how deep seated this character's irrelevance is. If you want to re-write the story so that your waifu can be relevant you legitimately would have re-write literally everything from both Zestiria and Berseria from the ground up.
user you literally stated that the anime and that was wrong it did change the lore to push the same character that you're trying to push right now, and our didn't work.
Charles Rodriguez
user, if you don't know what happened with the Ufotable incident you can just say so.
Gavin Collins
Boy, for how much Yea Forums hates Zestiria they sure love discussing it and every minute detail of its lore
>No one can read your mind I've stated things clearly multiple times. As for this 'muh fanfic' argument, the lore, story, and characters are all shit. It's horrible and needs extensive rewrites to be worth a damn. You can keep trying to dismiss me with this 'muh waifu' talk when the only characters I wanted to fuck were Edna and ending-cutscene Mikleo, but an empty dismissal is an empty argument. >You would have to rewrite everything from Zestiria Fucking good.
Camden James
Half of this argument is some guy who really likes Zestiria apparently.
Luke Sullivan
No you haven't user, all you stated is that you want to rewrite the story, but you never go into any kind of detail about how you planned on doing it.
If you want to write a fanfic so that your irrelevant waifu can be relevant then good on you. But don't pretend that it hasn't been tried before and failed horribly.
Jonathan Allen
I finally beat Graces. I had it in my backlog since 2015 and I came to enjoy it after playing with most of the Knight DLC and raising the difficulty. The game was too dull otherwise. Now I'm too tired to play the extra chapter, but I'll slowly get around to it.
Brody Thomas
I don't even really like it, but I just don't think that pushing worthless and irrelevant waifu would help anything. Both her and Rose are actually pointless characters that really weren't needed.
Oliver Johnson
No, I said they could have rewritten it to handle the character better. Easily. The entire idea was to provide examples them argue against your insistence on the default lore making it impossible since my entire premise is that they need to rewrite that anyway to fix the setting and lore. That was the argument. Not that I was going to do it, you idiot. If at this point all you have is insults then you've pretty handily lost the argument.
Jeremiah Robinson
Oh my God I fucking forgot about Arise
Kayden Phillips
Not them, but what happened?
Owen Hill
Cress is to Tales of as Marth is to Fire Emblem
Jaxson Flores
Then it's odd you ignored this line: >Just like they could change the plot to delete her (or preferably Rose) but I prefer to argue from a constructive rather than destructive direction.
Andrew Brooks
The problem is that there's something that tried to do the same and it was shit because all it did was push irrelevant characters into the spotlight where they didn't belong.
Personally I think that not all of Zestiria's lore was bad and it helped that Berseria explained it better. Hence why I posted and for example used making Mikleo into a girl and going head on into the romantic relationship with Sorey. Why because in universe the were human seraphim couples that didn't work out and to also give more context into Sorey deciding to spend the rest of his life with Mikleo, and his desire for human and seraphim co-existence.
Charles Nelson
The problem is the anime didn't do extensive enough rewrites to the setting/lore or Alisha's role in the story. Not Rose's for that matter. Shitty patchjobs to how Resonance and Malevolence works simply are not enough, it makes Alisha shoehorned because she just did not have a point in the final version of the story. I never disagreed with that much, I simply said it was a problem that she was and yet got teased as a party member and plot relevant character both in the early game as well as in the advertising. As for your post, I did read it, but I didn't really see how to respond to it since I wasn't really trying to judge people's suggestions on their own. If anything it depends on implementation more than it does actual ideas, though i felt the world mechanics were confusing and dumb even if Berseria made them easier to understand. And with Alisha, you need to delete a lot of what she does in the early game to make her more of an NPC rather than the temp party member with teased role that she is. Yet again, as I said earlier, I was being constructive rather than destructive, changing and adding to things rather than removing them.
Jose Smith
The president of Ufotable at the event where they aired the last episodes if the Zestiria anime at an event admitted a few things. He admitted that Alisha was side character and that everyone who worked on the Zestiria knew that. He then went in to admit that Rose isn't the heroine in the anime and they made that choice to push Alisha instead because Nips don't like Rose (or so they thought), and Ufotable thought that Alishafags had more money. Then the armatus character designer was asked about the Alisha's armatus design and he stated off hand that he had never made an armtus design for Alisha prior to the anime.
Later on the head of Ufotable got into a rampage about the sales not being as high as he wanted even though he change everything to appease to Alishafags
Landon Gray
That didn't have anything to do with user's argument, though.
Austin Perry
The story actually tells you that what Alisha does really isn't important. It was misdirection on the part to have thou think that she was more important than she actually was. Fixing tr has easy, just have Sorey's grand father send Sorey on a mission to Ladylake, Mikleo sneaks after Sorey even though she's not supposed to. Sorey becomes the shepherd and ends up wearing himself thin by attempting to be everyone's hero. The seraphim snap him out of it and they escape to Rolance and Sorey collapses, only to be saved by Sergei. Heck make more use of Mayvin be having him be the first human that Sorey has met. It's not hard.
Joshua Mitchell
Doesn't really disagree with what I said. Again, I would prefer to build characters up rather than cut them. That is all. Both are possible solutions.
Nathan Diaz
>we really don't need another sword character in smash. Does seeing a long pointed metal really bother you that much? Ultimate's online is filled with the Fox trio anyways so you don't really see sword users as often as you think.
Wyatt Perez
user was talking about whitewashing and my point was that Nips realized that the devs really wasn't lying after the event. Which pissed off Talesfags because it meant that all the crying for Alisha was baseless, especially after Alisafags threatened to bomb Talesfes.
Angel Rogers
>Which pissed off Talesfags Citation?
Brayden Smith
You've already seen the results of their anger user. They now tolerate Rose.
Colton Brown
That's not a citation.
Lucas Torres
Alisha pleases old townspeople for moralfagging reasons. OHOHOHOHO
All the recent ones (Xillia 2, Zestiria, the Rays) have some dark scenes. Seems like the general direction Tales has been heading in has been getting more dark.
Logan Flores
I dropped Berseria about 20~25 hours in. What the fuck happened to the combat system, that shit felt genuinely awful. I didn't have any issues with Xillia or Abyss' combat system, but this Soul Gauge gimmick was frustrating beyond belief to deal with.
