This expac single handedly killed WoW when you think about it

No it didn't, subs took a dive with Cata

What killed the game was LFD and raid finder, so no one had to talk to anyone to clear content anymore.

Personally I quit after they axed the talent trees and doubled the amount of XP you got. As a result I was breaking quest chains because I was outleveling the zone before completing the end of the chains

I heard raiding was going to be this epic social experience, but I didn't hit endgame content until after they added raid finder. So my raiding experience was just a bunch of silent nobodies and me running through a loot tunnel. No planning, no real threats, the game was just handing me better loot

>kick slackers
>inv new people
there i fixed your problem
but you want instant gratification

>the expansions that renews interest and multiplied the playerbase as the game was stale and dying, ruined it
classicfags are legit retarded and delusional

Attached: file.png (680x695, 265K)

It was cata. While tbc introduced things some people didn't agree with, wrath introduced things that fundamentally changed the game for the worse and instead of using the next expac to rectify these problems, they doubled down on them in cata and the game has never been the same since.

It killed the community feeling, of course you faggots didn't even notice because you were 12 at the time.
Every established 40 man raiding guild was forced to either downsize or overinflate to deal with the new shitty 10/25 raid setups. The vast majority just ended up disbanding. Moving pvp focus into shitty arenas only compounded the issues.

>kick slackers if theyre not friends
>one of the slackers are Healer or Tank
>have to wait another 20 minutes
>repeat
Probably it was faster at first but new players who enters in the late expansion are fucked.

Wrath did. The introduction of "Play the patch" philosophy was Blizzard shooting themselves in the foot, people were happy progressing SSC and TK while SWP was current, they had a lot to look forward to, Blizzard didn't have as much pressure to make lots of content every patch.

I understand Blizzard was concerned that very few people actually got to attempt the harder raids and so they felt like they were wasting resources, which led them to use WotLK as a testing ground to find out what the best formula was to get casuals into raiding, giving us a different raid design philosophy every patch, and which is also why all the people that were shitters in TBC love WotLK.

Ever since WotLK, every patch rendered previous content worthless, except for vanity achievements and the odd trinket, everyone reaches the end really fast and demands more and more content.

reminder that the first 2 weeks of Cataclysm was peak WoW

>not uniting guilds
Most of the guild who disbanded where trash with meme names made with alters.

PVP-ing with Destro/Felguard was fun as fuck.

underage

cross-server is what killed wow.

I agree. I would also add that there's something oddly unworkable about the whole undead/death knight theme. It's generic; I feel like it only really works for Halloween. Imagine basing a whole expansion around the concept of Christmas or Easter and you get some idea of why "muh skeletons" has very little staying power. There's a reason the best raid of Wrath, Uldar, had next to nothing to do with any of this shit.

TBC was on par with vanilla imo. Wrath is when the game started to free fall into a large pile of shit. The worst thing that came out of tbc was the start of blizzard trying to hyperbalance all the classes and specs for pve and pvp simultaneously. This has been snowballing for 12 years now and it’s one of the most glaring issues with retail

Flying mounts murdered the social aspect of WoW though.

Wrath was the end times.
>LFD
>Piss-easy dungeons
>Cut content
etc.

>ruins world design due to flying (compare outland with Azeroth, it's laughable compared to the OG)
>ruins social interactions due to lfg+flying
>ruins emergent wpvp due to flying
>ruins lore and characters
>ruins pvp with arenas
>ruins horde with belfs
Despite this, it was still pretty good. Wrath was wat actually burned it to the ground, with cata burying it.

Why can't trannies PvP? Is it the lack of test?

I still want tbclassic to happen. Split the servers if people want to remain on vanilla content, I don't mind.

>Tokens, dailies, 10 and 25 man raids -- TBC handled these all well and fine
>dailes are fine
Dailies are the most pathetic excuse for "content" ever implemented. Mindless grinding is not content, you fat gook.

I think it was multiple small immersion-killing updates over a 3 expansion period, cataclysm being the expansion where the scale tipped too far.

Adversity is what mmorpg's used to be all about. It's going through all that shit and perservere which the best memories are created from. I have vivid memories of trying to get a group together for the swamp of sorrow instance, getting ganked by another group and scream at the screen in rage etc. When you finally enter with a full group you know what's at stake. I have literally zero memories of dungeon groups post dungeon finder. This is when wow became nothing but the race to the destination, not the journey.

Wrong. Each class stillchad their own snowflake utility and some classes even gained class defining skills (Bloodlust, consec being base, improved holyshield...)

dunno. i'm not the one that finds running arround a pillar fun
because i don't like to suck long things

Yep. I quit a few months in. It busted it good.

>something oddly unworkable about the whole undead/death knight theme
Because they were bad at handling it.
The art sucked and the lore sucked :
>No nerubian empire
>Scourge is 99% about ghouls and not human zombies like forsaken
>The sense of horror, gore, zombie was completely gone because of China.
>The scourge is turned into a joke with Arthas being a Scooby Doo villain failing at everything, therefore it never feels threatening.
>More Nordic garbage like Valkyr n shit.
>It's all about Paladins (god they are so cringe).

>Wrath did. The introduction of "Play the patch" philosophy
Play the Patch started in Vanilla you retard. Dire Maul loot completely outclassed anything from MC, ZG and AQ20 loot shit all over BWL loot, and the dungeon loot revamp before naxx made everything else obsolete except dungeons and naxx.
Play the Patch has been one of the defining aspects of WoW right from the very beginning.

Plenty of guilds were farming T4 raids, while progressing in T5 raids, maybe trying the first two bosses in Hyjal and Najentus as well as SWP came out.

That completely disappeared in WotLK. Get your tier from the new Archavon loot pinata, run your weekly raid boss to get valor points and you're ready to raid the new normal mode raid skipping absolutely everything.
I don't remember seeing absolutely any guilds progressing Ulduar in ICC patch which was fairly commonplace in TBC.

>That completely disappeared in WotLK.
Bullshit. You were still farming Ulduar well into ICC for Val'anyr, your Warriors and Rogues were still pugging Naxx for Grim Toll, your tanks still wanted ToC for Satrina's Impeding Scarab.
You didn't see people progressing Ulduar in ICC patch was the same reason you didn't see people progging Kara or Gruuls in SWP patch, because it was so far out of date it was pug content by that point. ICC didn't come after Ulduar, ToC did, then ICC.

Wrong. People only progressed current raid because welfare epics were ridiculously good, and normal mode gave excellent gear while being infinitely easier than the previous tier's heroic at same gear levels.

This. I played from the beta right up till the BC pre patch when it all turned to shit. Never set foot in Outland but I'm coming home soon!

>which everyone wanted
Unironically kys

no, that was cataclysm
-z

Am I the only one who cared about the lore?
One of the reason i got into WoW was because of Wc3.
But then TBC crashed it. I hated so much WoW for that.

>Catababy once again passes the blame

100% this.

>stop being a snowflake and just heal/tank
>problem solved
wow so hard

I remember when they had the finder shits the dps had to wait 30 minutes anyways. I used to queue my friends up with my tank for instant waiting times and just leave the group so he'd be in line to get the next tank that queued up.

Yes

it made hybrids viable but still not optimal

Paladins/Druids could tank raids, but Warriors were still the best

Spriest could do some good DPS, but you were still mostly there to be a mana battery for the healers

OOMkin didn't OOM after 5 spells anymore

etc

>your Warriors and Rogues were still pugging Naxx for Grim Toll
lmao no

>I remember when shit was harder for no other reason so it should be hard for you too!

you :clap: could :clap: only :clap: fly :clap: in :clap: the :clap: outlands :clap:

He’s talking about cata you mook

Being harder meant the tanks and healers stuck around longer too.

It was easier for me to get a group as a dps pre-LFG since I knew what to do and where to ask.

>Being harder meant the tanks and healers stuck around longer too.
Biggest kek of the thread, if a tank or healer wants to fuck off your group of DPS is shit out of luck

>if a tank or healer wants to fuck off your group
the point was that they wanted to do it less often
after LFG you so much as look at the tank the wrong way and he's gone

Ah then yes. Same thing with LFG now except the tank pretty much gets to pick and choose whatever he wants instantly at the cost of a 30 minute slap on the wrist should he leave

>wrathbabby desperately tries to avoid blame of his shitty first experience
Wrath literally killed the game. TBC arena killed world pvp/BG's but Wrath destroyed the gear progression of the game for good by limiting the lifespan of a raid tier.

>Wrath literally killed the game.
*Looks at the 11 mil sub count*

>popularity is the sign of a good game
Wow i guess Fifa and CoD are the best games in existance. Also you forget the gigantic drop off that happened in the second half of wrath once the gear treadmill began to fall apart and that never recovered.

Did you forget cata added flying to Azeroth and effectively killed the game even more so? No of course not, you blame the last expansion because it’s the hip thing to do

Nope , the death of Warcraft truly began with the Litch King . It was a good exp but they slowly added shit that killed the game

Don't forget your badge!

>ree now i'm just angry and whiny

>by saying wrath was the beginning of the end this means that all other expansions are fine
Don't be a retard user. Your first MMO experience was the downfall i'm sorry if you can't accept that.

TBC was my hayday of WoW. Merged our IRL college friends guild with another (Executus or GTFO) and took the server by storm. Was never number one, but we finished all the content (including Sunwell pre-nerf). Being a druid tank in full t6, walking around Strat and getting literal ooo's and ahh's from my elune brothers was great. Running noobs through heroics and practically solo'ing them was a blast. Then wrath came and I hated it and dipped out for 6 months. Sad I missed out on the cool cheeves of that era (immortal, undying, etc) but the changes they made just didn't jive with me. TBC had it all - epic flying was amazing, hardmode dungeons gave us a taste of end game non-raid content, arena's were alright, the raids top notch, still had interesting attunements and class quests (druid flight form omg), alt-specs made viable but still retained their individuality, and some of the best weapon/armor design the game has seen since. 10/10 would TBC again.

That was built up on on Vanilla and TBC. Would WotLK be as good, sub numbers would've continued to climb, instead of declining.

>Dire Maul loot completely outclassed anything from MC
>ZG and AQ20 loot shit all over BWL loot

Way to assassinate your own point with such a gross hyperbole. At least you have something to look up to with Classic's release.

this is a thread about TBC and he didn't say Cataclysm

This discussion on "Play the Patch" is interesting to me
I'm a wrathbabby that first raided when Ulduar was current and i enjoyed Ulduar as a raid and everything about the aesthetic of the giants and Storm Peaks etc.
But when the new patches seemed to invalidate the old gear i kinda got grumpy over what implications the new raids had over the old ones. I'm not entirely sure if i read this phrase online beforehand or i re-invented the wheel but i started using the word "treadmill" to describe my frustration with other friends about why i eventually burned out of WoW back then

TBC was the only good incarnation of WoW. Vanilla was an unbalanced mess, and WotLK was casual garbage.

Lmao is this trolling

This entire thread is lul-worthy. Half the fags in here never played the game and the other half are vehemently pointing that out but what kills me is that all of you still love this steaming pile of shit series that should have legitimately died after WotLK.

TBC is probably when the lore hit its lowest point.

>Kill Kael'Thas in Tempest Keep
>loljk he's alive and become a burn victim drug addict in MT
>Kill Illidan
>loljk he was only knocked out bro
>Fuck up Kil'Jaeden
>WRRRRR NOOOO HELP ME

Attached: tbc.jpg (1024x768, 399K)

BC is the best expansion by far.

Or the fact that the Eredar got retconned so the Alliance would have another blue skin to play with

>1024x768
why would you still use a resolution this low during 2007

It didn't make sense lorewise and was totally cancer. Wrath should've come first.

Unbalance and niche roles are what makes rpg’s fun moron.

blizz balancing for arenas were arenas only sin

real deathknell was class simplification starting in cata and snowballing into legion where bliz was removing abilities every patch

TBC implemented a lot of things that people didn't like such as daily quests and flying, but at the time they were good additions. Just because the next few expansions ruined those ideas doesn't mean that they were bad.
TBC was peak WoW.

Illidan being "knocked out" is more an aspect of Legion's lore, but I agree that the story of TBC was some of the worst, at least when it came to the quests.
I always did what ever I could to avoid having to go to Outland when leveling an alt.
Probably had some of the worst zones too. Everybody saying that Nagrand was their favorite Outland zone always made me laugh, because it's the only one, besides maybe Zangarmarsh, which isn't either mediocre, or outright terrible.

>t. Elwyn fan

It introduced this retarded expansion cycle, now it's episode by episode, each episode separate from another. You can't simply jump into the game because everything's messed up.

Elwynn isn't too bad, but it's one of the most boring starting zones, fitting for the most boring race, and is out shined by every single neighboring zone.

>first expansion of an over a decade long franchise killed it

What kind of shit brain do you have that you think diremaul gear is better than MC and ZG?
9THER THAN SPELL BOOKS AND HEALER TURBAN THERE IS NOTHING USEFUL CROM AQ20
Lmao "shit all over BWL" my ass
You're a fucking retard who never played the actual game.

Cata was the best and the hardest expansion, not surprised classicfags think it killed the game

They're extremely retarded and fat

>put Kael on the cover of the box
>violenty rape his character

>flying mounts
>resilience
>new continent making the old one completely irellevant
>introduced 'daily island' and welfare point gear
>raid difficulties

yeah pretty much. it was a good expansion but it brought in the rot that would later choke the life from the game

I honestly feel that way about every expansion until Cata. They added a lot of good content, but a lot of the design decisions ultimately resulted in Wow basically becoming browser game of sitting around and waiting for finders.

>paying to play 15 years old content
Classicfags are just as cucked as retail players, if not more. Enjoy spamming 3 buttons, you fat pieces of shit. I am looking forward to all the Why I quit classic WoW posts

zangarmarsh was so comfy to gank in :<
just perch ontop of shrooms while watching your victim below

but yeah those zones were awful
shadowmoon was literal cancer in every aspect

>raid difficulties
i dont remember that happening in tbc

It doesn't really bring people together when you get with random people from other servers that you will never see again

>Kael
Revealed as alive in the quest text immediately following his fight.
>Illidan
Didn't survive Black Temple. His corpse was kept by the Wardens to ensure his demon soul couldn't find it's way back to it.

It didn't, just another child talking about shit he never played.

Huh raid frames with portraits is actually pretty cool.

to see less shit happening? yea

Too bad that people spent most of their time only in outland then huh? All the new resource nodes were in outland, all the dailies, all the dungeons/raids worth doing, all the farming spots needed for current content/gear etc was all on that small ass continent with flying. So you had more players in a small area but everyone was flying so you barely met with people between traveling from A to B. It was cool to do a quest with someone then see them 30mins later running from A to B. Or better yet, if it was the opposing faction you could get payback for them killing you while they were traveling. Flying also ruined the feel of the world being larger than life. You used to feel insignificant without it.

Arena's are okay, but they also made blizzard start balancing the game around them which eventually ended up with all the classes feeling more like each other and not individual classes. Just look at cata for a good example of that.

Not really an issue when you're playing at 4k

They're pretty neat and actually viable with higher resolutions and lower raid size.

>Revealed as alive in the quest text immediately following his fight.
Dude wot if we raped a character not once but twice!
>Didn't survive Black Temple. His corpse was kept by the Wardens to ensure his demon soul couldn't find it's way back to it.
That's the same as being knocked out

i rather see more the game than the same raid frames twice , buffs and debuffs , on 2 different parts of the screen, huge icons i don't need to see . or the retarded raid members character face
whatever 4k or 1k

game died for everyone at a different point in time. many will say it died during the final patch of vanilla, when they stripped away honor requirements and let anyone buy gear. you can argue that it was end of expansion, so it didn't matter, but that new system carried over to TBC.

just face it-- everyone will say it died for them during different points in time, so trying to label one or two things as the reason everyone quit, is just pointless.

fyi, it died for me in warlords when I realized they were no longer interested in pushing out meaningful content in a reasonable amount of time. warlords had the least amount of raids and dungeons, and they spent an entire patch on twitter and selfie cam. that was the end for me, I knew they no longer cared and only wanted to keep addicts around.

Everything after Dungeon Finder killed WoW. The real reality is that people who liked and dedicated time to the game could separate themselves out from the chaff people who didn't. Nowadays because Blizzard is intent on not letting people fall behind you are no longer able to tell what are essentially special-ed dipshits or people who will leave on a whim for other games out from the crowd. This means that people who actually want to play have to either be good enough for mythic or accept that they have to participate in shitty guilds that are barely capable of clearing heroic every patch. The mid-tier guild is dead and gone these days because WoW makes sure it's impossible to tell anyone apart from anyone else.

I never said his whole UI was good, I just liked the portraits.

>Flying mounts murdered the social aspect of WoW though.
I fail to see how. Instead of losers showing off their RARE AND EPIC mounts they were now showing off their RARE AND EPIC flying mounts.

Really mounts and pets ruined MMOs since they serve to allow losers to pretend to feel good about wasting their time in-game by showing off to other players.

>I was unaware demons couldn't be permanently killed
>This makes Illidan returning after being killed a retcon

Classic wow has layering and sharding, so it will suck too.

The thing about shitty solo players is that seeing people run past them in the open world was their version of socializing in WoW.

I never said anything about retcon. Just that you bitch about words.
If you wanna talk about retcons it's going to take a while since WoW is filled with retcons.

It completely ruined world pvp, fuck you. Druid flight form was also the biggest load of shit, they just spam travel form and then when they leave combat its instant flying mount cast.

Only for first 1-2 phases

How many fags from random LFRs have you kept in touch with, user? Surely since it brought you together with so many people you have added them all and are all good friends right? You do hang out with all your LFR and XRZ LFG friends every day, right?

Yeah, that's what I thought. Bitch.

No, what you said was
>TBC is probably when the lore hit its lowest point.
>Kill Illidan
>loljk he was only knocked out bro
Which first of all is a piece of Legion lore, and secondly wasn't inconsistent with how demons have been established to return since WoTA.

World pvp didn't survive the addition of BGs. If you think otherwise your experience with world pvp could probably be more accurately described as griefing low levels anyway.

The peak of WoW was just before they nerfed Priest's mind control in vanilla. Softcore raiders crying because they got thrown into the lava outside Molten Core was a preview of the theme park to come. It represented the first step toward "no fun allowed".

>and secondly wasn't inconsistent with how demons have been established to return since WoTA

Except no, this is inconsistent. Demons being immortal except inside the nether is a retcon from WoD introduced solely to revive Illidan. At no point prior to this was it ever implied demons were capable of reviving.

You're so wrong. 40man raids traveling through the world to the entrances, people traveling from node to node while farming, people traveling from farming spot to farming spot... Do you seriously think the second BGs were introduced everyone just stayed in there and didn't go out in the world?
In TBC you only find people to kill if they are at the exact spot they need to be e.g at the mining node, not running inbetween.

>last days of TBC
>thinking to myself this is shit and it's going to be remembered as amazing
>years later...

Attached: 1333924533111.png (321x339, 10K)

I made at least three friends that I still talk to this day from dungeons, stay mad resetranny.

>time machine back to 2006
>everyone online was complaining about their T1 and T2 sets were now obsolete
>the seething everyone had when 61 dungeon blues were AQ40 tier

Attached: oPU83of.png (1012x712, 640K)

i did a single friend during all my time of wow
and i found him from running daily slave pens heroic for the trinket using the looking for people tool

>40man raids traveling through the world to the entrances
Flight points
>people traveling from node to node while farming
Sure, ganking people picking flowers wasn't as easy. Cry me a river.
>Do you seriously think the second BGs were introduced everyone just stayed in there and didn't go out in the world?
You'd have to have not played before they were introduced to think this isn't exactly what happened.

just for being neutral you got the rare rouge/mage / small party traveling to battlemasters in enemy main cities to fuck with people afking and botting

it introduced 10 mans

True. And I don't mean gameplay-wise but when it comes to lore, TBC really shat the bed. Brown orcs, elves in Horde, nu-Draenei, old WC1-3 characters becoming mad so they are raid bosses... This shit started in TBC.

>Do you seriously think the second BGs were introduced everyone just stayed in there and didn't go out in the world?
>Incredibly lucrative gear
>Have to do BGs consistently for months to get it
>Get completely shit on by people with this gear if you don't

The concept of payed expansions with higher level cap is what killed WoW

How?

and 25 mans which i also dislike but thats not difficulties

Not as an easier difficulty of existing 25 mans. Karazhan was a mandatory gear step in T4 and ZA was a T5 loot source after T6 was already released. There's no comparing that to Naxx - but smaller and easier.

>taking wotlk babies baits
you deserve it

>flying mounts are fine

t. Someone who never played Vanilla