Leveling > Raiding

>Multiplayer video games post 2007
>community

>modern MMOs
>community

Get the fuck out of my board

Nost proved you wrong, get bent retailcucks

in vanilla WoW?
eh. you cant even properly level as a group.

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umad?

Leveling
>always progressing, never stuck
>can do solo or group up
>meeting new people
>in new areas and enemies
>using different spells
>earning lots of gold
>no set schedule, play whenever you want
>changing classes and play styles

Raiding
>same people day in and day out
>same raids
>same enemies
>scheduled
>get stuck
>lose money
>casting 2-3 spells constantly
>same class

first 15 levels > leveling further

sure you can, duo is king

Leveling in WoW is pure fucking kino. End game dungeons and some world PvP is also good. Once you do that for about a month it's pretty easy to drop the game and never play again

>Ryutaro
I miss him lads

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1 to 60 > dungeons > world PvP > > > instanced PvP > > > raids

This is the true list, anything else is objectively wrong.

>you cant even properly level as a group.
Dues get 50/50 exp, everything else gets bonus exp. Drops can be gotten easier with less downtime because you're faster in a group.

Playing solo is a noob trap.

didnt know Yea Forums is THIS casual.

Fun > Raiding

drops take longer because spawns are limited and you fight over quest items.
even solo it could take multiple spawn camp clears to get all the items you want. in a group its infinitely worse.
that wasnt fixed until like cataclysm or something.

>shitty fetchquests you did a hundred times already
>fun

>drops take longer because spawns are limited and you fight over quest items.
Nope. You're faster in groups because you can kill more faster, its been proven like a billion times already.

WAIT THE MAGE TOWER IS BACK???
Is this real? I missed out on my dh because I stopped playing legion about 6 months or so after release and came back just as they removed it at the end.

Leveling is about exploring this massive lore rich world that I could only imagine when playing warcraft 3. Exploring the faction home areas and seeing the consequences of the war and all the magic in the world is infinitely better than some shit tier raids.

maybe on private servers with fucked spawn times.

>doesnt like people or MMOs
>posts in an MMO thread

You can bitch, cry and moan all day desu but we're all going to have more fun than you've had all year, maybe your entire life given you have autism.

:^)

Yes I'd rather do matching games that don't make me use my class or abilities in any way, shape or form.

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end game is literally camping lowbies
prove me wrong

>mmos have to be centered around shitty single player fetch quests
wew

Prove yourself right.

so you havent played WoW before?

Nope, proven in original vanilla too. If you played back then you would know that too.

lmao

based
ive unironically played 3000+ hours of WoW in my life and never once gotten to level cap on 1x rates
usually get to level 40-50 on vanilla/BC servers, realize the grind is starting and people are less frequent, and then i just fuck off and uninstall. i also love getting autistic and doing up a full UI every time too
I watched my brother raid as a wee lad before I got my own account and once I understood what was going on all the novelty was gone lmao

I've played it lots. I still find the leveling experience to be the most fun i've had in the game. Each class plays so different and exploring the skills of a new class or playing a new race is great. You also just run into things in the world when leveling and pretty much anything can happen. The game is just so unstructured and exciting even being in zones i've played in before. Raiding is literally the same boring shit every single fucking raid and it gets old, I feel distanced from Azeroth when im in a raid.

Based and redpilled

so are you all just quitting the game after three weeks or what

Please do not post things this based its very upsetting to all the retail players who wasted the last decade of their life playing instanced raids which have nothing to do with MMOs.

>Vanilla
>Raiders dominated the discussion and development
>Everyone was expected to minmax and prepare for raiding, even though barely anyone raided
>Classic
>Everyone knows raiders are retards and never actually enjoyed playing WoW
>Everyone is playing for fun and leveling
>Classic+ will delete raids and focus on improving the 1 to 60 experience
WoW is finally saved.

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My plan is to level 2-3 characters and then do a bunch of dungeons to get some BiS gear and maybe do some world PvP. Not going to touch raiding at all so I see myself getting about 9-12 weeks out of the game.

more like classic will die after a month because thats as much as leveling offers.

Each class is different in vanilla, so you're not done leveling 1 character to 60, you have to do it 9 times.

Its okay they'll release NG+

There's more than fucking raiding and leveling. Leveling will take lots of people a month+ and you can level multiple characters. There's also plenty of community driven gameplay and world PvP. Also lots of the end game 5 man dungeons are pure fucking kino and can add another couple weeks running them a few times

I would hope so given that Vanilla raids were braindead easy.

Makes sense that Blizzard will ignore the 1% this time around and focus on the bulk of the game that the majority will play.

yes one class presses 1-2 and the other class presses 2-1.
meanwhile you still have to run through the same leveling hubs every time.

>community driven gameplay
lmao

>yes one class presses 1-2 and the other class presses 2-1.
>meanwhile you still have to run through the same leveling hubs every time.
We're not talking about retail, here.

yeah we're talking about vanilla, which somehow has even simpler rotations.

>being a boring faggot
Leveling is the perfect time to have fun and experiment with new skills and class builds and really push your class to its limits as you slowly become an expert with that class.

>Classic+ will delete raids
what

but I know what class builds are the best already.
you also dont need 60 levels of questing to learn how to play a vanilla class lmao.

Oh I see. You're one of those fucking subhuman retards who can't understand that while vanilla had simpler rotations, it had a larger toolkit that you would apply differently to every single situation in the game, be it 1v1 pvp, from questing zone to questing zone, bgs and bg objectives, raiding, specific dungeons with specific mob types and packs, etc. In retail, you can apply 85% of your toolkit to every pack of mob without having any important difference.

Then don't fucking play it. You're literally wasting your time. You're going to get a few raids under your belt and then never play again you fucking retard. The best part about vanilla was the world itself and not the raids. Retail is shit because they slowly focused more and more on instanced content and the actual world and zones slowly became ghost towns.

Remember that time Blizzard tried to save WoW by pandering to the Chinese by releasing pandas

Good times

the world in WoW has always been static and unthreatening.

Only unavailable on the switch version

swap dungeons and world pvp, and its perfect

best expansion. maybe they shouldve listened to the chinese more rather than muh orcs retards.

lmao

Yeah because it added a whole new leveling experience.

No it hasn't, in Vanilla and BC the world was literally the best part. There was people in all the zones actively doing stuff.

what

pandaria leveling wasnt that outstanding and it only lasted for like a week at best.
you leveling retards dont even like MMOs. you need lasting content.

>raids
>lasting content
>literally a fucking loot hallway where nothing changes
MMOs need organic world building that's driven by the players, they don't need instanced garbage

and they made literally no difference.
nothing in the world matters, you cant influence it at all. not even death matters because you just respawn a minute later.

>you need lasting content.
Back to retail you go cuck, enjoy your gear treadmill.

yes, content updates from new awesome Jagex developer

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raids absolutely last for a long time because its actual tough content people cant just faceroll through.
but MoP had way more than that anyways.

vanilla is the biggest gear treadmill.
you are confused.

>implying STV and Tanaris aren't two of the most fun places to explore and level in
World PvP and Leveling will always be way better than raids. Raids are literally designed for autists with ADHD who need constant dopamine shots from the content they consume

>vanilla is the biggest gear treadmill.
>retard doesnt understand the difference between leveling and end game gear treadmills
Pfthahah holy shit, fuck off retard

Can always tell a private server pleb when they start talking about how live is "easier". You tards wouldn't last a second in live PVP. The pace and complexity is 20x higher than vanilla.

if you want pace and complexity play a fighting game you stupid faggot

>raids absolutely last for a long time because its actual tough content people cant just faceroll through.
If you look at the whole population of WoW barely anyone touched raiding, it was a super small minority of players. less than 20% of all players bothered with Molton Core by the time TBC was over.

Its why when Wrath came out Blizzard finally looked at the statistics on who was doing what, and they found players just didnt find raids fun or entertaining. They liked the whole stories of people stealing loot, getting firsts, ect but actually doing raids was seen as boring and tedious. Wrath released a whole bunch of mechanics to force everyone into raids and destroyed leveling in the process, its why you can see the player base suddenly vanishes when cata launches, the game people wanted to play (leveling) got replaced with raids, which no one wanted except the developers.

You see its easier to make a raid and ramp its difficulty up to delay players than it is to actually make content like new zones. And most of the blizz team at the time were old EQ raiders. It has all sort of odd effects in the game like them being biased against paladins, which were OP in EQ.

tldr no one gives a fuck about your shitty raids, you're a minority and you already have a raid focused game, its called World of Warcarft and its shit. Stay there.

yeah leveling is the thing you do for two weeks, game treadmill is what you do for the remainder of your playtime in vanilla WoW.

no it's not back but there was a fun leak post that said the Mage Tower like challenge will return.
I'm preparing myself for the future by stop wasting time on duplicate alts and just focus on on a max level per class. that's all.
The old Legion Mage Tower ain't returning.

>argument ad popolum
nice

less then 20% of all players ever leveled past level 20.
whats that supposed to prove?

>People enjoy X
>WELL THATS NOT A REAL ARGUMENT PLAY RAIDS
>Make your game about raids
>its dead
>more people playing Classic than retail
kek, you got rekt by history

20% of all level 60 accounts retard.

>>>
YYYEEEREEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Nah I'm good

Based off level 60 accounts Jesus user are you retarded or what.

This is literally 2010 tier knowledge, raiding before Wrath was a minority activity. It wasnt because they were hard or difficult to access, people just didnt want to bother with them because they were not as fun as dungeons or leveling.

>more people playing Classic than retail
are we making up some delusional dream facts now?

they never mentioned level 60 accounts in these statistics. they always talked about all players in general and most players never even reached endgame.

160 hours retail cuck

wow was always about raids.
literally the whole game structure lead to them and all game patches were about them.

Which was a massive mistake. Raids are the worst content in the entire game

Not Vanilla

>they never mentioned level 60 accounts in these statistics
>lying to save face
eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/7860746695?page=2#36

>We don’t want to restrict raiding again to

nah.
thats probably unrepeatable fetch quest leveling which leads to tons of abandoned content as you never have a reason to revisit those zones.

ESPECIALLY vanilla. Like all of the content added through patches was instances.

Lol you keep mentioning fetch quests but you don't realize raids are LITERALLY a loot hallway with the exact same enemies and exact same content that you run over and over and over and over and over and over

>thats probably unrepeatable fetch quest leveling which leads to tons of abandoned content as you never have a reason to revisit those zones.
Because they release more fucking raids you absolute moron

Blizzard spent all their time and energy appeasing morons like you and not building upon the leveling experience, no fucking shit you got more raid content and leveling was left behind.

>playing the wait for everybody do the fight correctly game
>having to fill out a job application to play with good players
>having to play a video game on a schedule

raiding is fucking stupid, imagine being so cucked that you cant beat the content at a reasonable pace because people suck at the game. The sign of a good mmo is one that gives options to progress your character regardless of group size.

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you are wrong, because early game, mid game AND end game is camping lowbies

the post you quoted does not mention level 60 accounts.
also
>for a game that has no raids or raid content?
are you insane? vanilla wow has the most raid and endgame content of any other WoW time period next to TBC maybe. three whole tiers, two side raids, shit like onyxia.
Im getting the impression that you never actually played vanilla.

>bossfights are fetchquests
this is just absolute bottom of the barrel shitposting now.

Because hes a moron user what do you expect. Hes wasted 15 years of his life playing nothing but raids and now that everyone knows it was a waste of time hes trying to convince people he actually achieved something in all those wasted hours.

Fact is you never see people who leveled talk like this, because you know they enjoyed playing WoW. Raiders never did, they enjoyed the status they got from gear and doing raids but once that status was reduced to zero suddenly they had nothing but a waste of time left.

Remember to report and hide raidfags, they should get banned for ruining WoW anyway

Dont forget getting yelled out by some shrill faggot basedboy cause you wont wear a diaper.

but vanilla WoW was in development for five years and most of it was spent on the leveling.
but the leveling was also capped off at 60. what else would they add? higher level caps?
nonsensical when you have to consider player subscriptions. leveling content gets consumed so fast in WoW its retarded to focus on that.

Bossfights never change user, you literally fight the same fucking retard a million times over. You're an animal chasing a carrot on stick and you don't even realize it.

Only ever played on Private servers, but didn't hit 60 in Vanilla, though I played BC and Wrath too.
Have a few friends excited about Classic, so if they don't fuck it up too bad I'll be giving it a try on the real thing. Take my time exploring, maybe RP a bit, craft stuff, etc...

You idiots are missing the point. Both leveling and raiding were important, but for different reasons.
Leveling had to be fun because it's the content every player was going to see. You need to make sure the game is enjoyable from levels 1-59 otherwise only the autists are gonna stick around to get to 60. That being said, raids were just as important too because they gave all the casuals something to aspire to. They were valuable BECAUSE not everyone could or was willing to dedicate the time to clear them. Little Billy in Orgrimmar would see some neckbeard in the latest tier set and go, "Whoa, I wanna be *that* guy." And regardless of how long he stuck around that kid would have a goal, and have FUN pursuing it. Retail has become such a shitshow because the devs forgot this important balance, and now leveling sucks (so much so that you can pay to skip it) while raids can be completed by anyone making them and the gear they provide worthless. It went from all content is fun and some content is special to some content is fun and no content is special, and that's an ass backwards way to design a game.

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yeah and vanilla has that
Also raiding is going to be one night a week for many months because it's only Ony and MC to start, and if you have trouble setting aside one day a week to raid you might have autism.

>Hes wasted 15 years of his life playing nothing but raids and now that everyone knows it was a waste of time hes trying to convince people he actually achieved something in all those wasted hours.
Biggest truth bomb of all time. The only reason people bring up raids is because they are trying to validate their existence and wasted hours on it.

>what else would they add? higher level caps
Prestige levels kind of like something in Elder Scrolls Online or what you see in Diablo 3. Give people points they can spend on certain stats and the like

Bossfights dont have to change because bossfights actually put up a challenge and dont get cleared the first try you attempt them.
You're a legitimate idiot.

>gives options to progress your character regardless of group size.
Yes and no. Its an MMO, you should play with others.

But instanced content is by default wrong and should never be in any MMO. This includes raids and instanced PvP.

Dungeons are okay though, its just a practical reality you cant have that content in a world.

I'm starting to believe that you were actually too shit to raid which is why you stick to the easy girlfriend mode content.

Based, fuck classic niggers and fuck XIV trannies

>Fact is you never see people who leveled talk like this, because you know they enjoyed playing WoW. Raiders never did, they enjoyed the status they got from gear and doing raids but once that status was reduced to zero suddenly they had nothing but a waste of time left.
B A S E D

>raiding is hard
Oh yeah my 1 button DPS rotation was so fucking difficult.

>Hes wasted 15 years of his life playing nothing but raids and now that everyone knows it was a waste of time hes trying to convince people he actually achieved something in all those wasted hours.
This sums up retail raid fags perfectly.

Raid fag detected, regretting all that time poopsocking are we? No one cares about your items or your clear times retard.

>all the casuals something to aspire to
< 20% played raids because they are not fun, not because they were magical or hard or special. Running into a dungeon but its more boring because it has 39 retards in it is not good MMO content.

Fuck off retail fag

I knew it. You got benched for being shit and now you pretend to prefer leveling lmao.

based

I have literally never played retail. Try again, shitpost-kun.

I'm going Horde Bloodsail RP what am i in for?

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imagine being proud of being on the same level as a herb picker

user you're not fooling anyone. 90% of people in the raid literally had one task and maybe a tiny bit of buffing. You don't have to lie to yourself. I played a warlock through all the raid content before and it was literally healthstone, summoning people for raids and spamming shadowbolt and a curse once in a while.

No but they get cleared and then you go back and do it again next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week, and next week multiplied by however many characters you boosted because "THE LEVELING IS TOO TEDIOUS I JUST WANNA SKIP IT SO I CAN RUN THIS SAME SHITTY DUNGEON EVEN MORE TIMES PER WEEK".

FUCK raiders.

tales from the bench

Nice try, fuck off retail fag

This. Raidfags actually think running through a rich diverse world to do the same shit 2-3 hours every night is actually a good thing

sorry kid, the best raiders in the world clear the raids on the hardest difficulties and then they take a break until the next set of actually challenging content comes out.

>FUCK raiders.
The thing is user, they fucked themselves.

Retail WoW is what happens when you design an MMO for raiders.

They can cry and bitch all they want, but they cant refute that single point. Retail WoW is a game for raiders.

And it sucks. Raiders fuck themselves because they dont know how to have fun or play for any reason other than epeen.

I didnt know classic retards were this mentally unstable.

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So they're retail fags?

did you know that at one point vanilla raiders were also retail players

It's not fair bros, i've spent over 6000$ on mounts and pets and won't even be able to use them on classic...

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if posters in this thread make up the majority of the classic playerbase then the whole thing wont last longer than two months at best.

holy shit the amount of shittiers/ meme specs in this thread raging and their gods in full tier sets

>tfw will never get that cool bear form
If I only needed one reason to never go back to retail.

Classic raiders LUL

>doing the exact same thing over and over again just to get a bit of gear so you can do another thing over and over again

based cohle poster

I just want to find cute girls like me to play with on Remulos/Arugul

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instanced PvP isn't that bad
gives you some alternative ways to use your PvP skill other than just a deathmatch

herod is the tranny server

clips.twitch.tv/IronicPrettyWaffleKreygasm
clips.twitch.tv/ResilientAmericanDolphinSoonerLater
twitch.tv/preachlfw/clip/GenerousBusyChickpeaTheRinger
clips.twitch.tv/DeterminedInterestingClintCeilingCat
twitch.tv/moo_uk/clip/RelatedDepressedIguanaFunRun?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time
twitch.tv/aylegaming/clip/MoistSoftGullWholeWheat

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but thats the whole point of an open ended game, i need to get the best gear so i can harass the enemy players over and over and over and over and over again

Indeed, Herod is now the official LGBTQIAABLT+ server.

strewth cunt, im in australia you bludger

I paid a Russian to get mine because my Druid was feral.

Was pretty cool. He streamed it and everything, took him a couple of minutes with no issue.

Yes but vanilla leveling sucks and if you think otherwise you are a deluded turboautist.

Starting arguments within your product so people get emotionally invested and remember your product more > Honest advertising

you'll never a Druid of the Polar Bear

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Raids > autistically killing open world mobs
Classic sucks and there is nothing you fags will be able to do anything about it.

there's way better MMOs for standard leveling experiences that dont have a raid focus.

if you dislike instanced content I dont even know why you'd ever play a game like WoW.

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Maybe faster than five people all fighting for themselves, but not an individual.

t.zoomer who has never played korean mmos for

YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DONT

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It'll take you that long just to level 2-3 characters unless you no-life the game to the max efficiency.

looks retarded as fuck

Two to three months is just for one character user

Unless you literally poop in socks, but 2/3 months is average for average game-time.

>strewth cunt, im in australia you bludger
Why are you even waiting for classic when you can go outside and kill spiders and orcs right now

lmfao 2-3 months to level 1 character AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

>pooping in sock intensifies

classic raiding and leveling was absolute kino and peak of mmos.

not him but too dangerous mate, lost my aunt last week to drop bears, need some time to regroup the senpai for a new assault on Emu Hill

hoes mad they missed out.
*shrug*

HOW DO I ACHIEVE AN IQ ON THIS LEVEL BEFORE CLASSIC DROPS

youtube.com/watch?v=HA4hfCpXp2c

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>senpai
fucks sake slanty eye moot there is nothing wrong with saying f.a.m

World events >>>>>>> Everything
MMOs should have more incentive to interact with the outside world and have hundreds participate, like world bosses or WPVP events.

Too much makes the game shit though, see GW2.

You have to keep it balanced.

world bosses always just end up being braindead zerg rushes.

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Its amazing to think once upon a time people actually asked for flying, LFG, all specs/races to be even and all the shit that objectively ruined WoW.

Azuregos is so much better than Kazzak for pvp. Mmm God I remember EPIC battles over azuregos in vanilla, I mean zone wide PvP building to a crescendo where the boss was at, so damn EPIC

there's nothing inherently wrong with raiding except the fixation that it is necessary to do it
good loot can be found outside raids and used to compete in pve or pvp.

>implying every single herb and mining node spawn point wont be camped by a sneaky chinky winky hidden underneath the world terrain
>he thinks he will ever see a black lotus

don't worry dude asmongol gonna organize epic world events for you

the city scourge event was great and fuck everyone who bitched about it

It should have gone on for months and evolved over time, making everything harder, forcing players to find ways to beat them back.

But no, what happened? People cried they couldnt play their MMO solo anymore and blizz nerfed the event into the ground.

>flying
>paladins/shamans on both sides
I straight up told fuckers at the end of vanilla this was shit and for years people shitposted me and sucked off TBC. So much vindication for me lately.

Anyone else here /onlyeverplayvanilla/

nah. especially the specs part.
vanilla is a stupid broken game with literally useless specs and anybody who defends that is a brainlet.

>literally useless specs
Name one spec which cannot get from level 1 to 60.

Raids are irrelevant.

I'm still of the opinion that all specs should at least be viable, even if they aren't optimal.

doing anything with your bros > anything else

>useless specs

Name 1 (one)

Oh man City Scourge and AQ was great too. I remember our server had managed to get horde and alliance to cooperate, we would send them stuff they were behind on and vice versa. Seeing even lowbies contributing was cool as fuck in retrospect.

The only problem was the fact the servers blew up but the idea was still cool

>I CANT MAIN TANK AS A PALADIN IN RAIDS LOL DUMB GAME ONLY LETTING WARRIORS MT RAIDS
fucking retards ruined the MMO genre

I dont disagree.

But class uniqueness should be expanded, not contracted. Retail is a masterclass in how not to balance your races or classes. Every class is literally just a DPS/Healer/Tank and there is no difference between your flavor of class, at least vanilla there are significant differences between paladin, shaman and priest healers.

For example Paladins just need some tweaking to make them viable like Warriors as tanks, but they could make it based on buffs/spells to tank rather than brute armor like Warriors.

>Raids are irrelevant.
lmaooo

they still do ask for that shit
people act like blizz devs are evil and ruined WoW when a lot of the shit people asked for is exactly what made it bad
people demanded convenience and perfect equality even when it destroyed the design pillars that made MMOs good
gamers are always trying to shift responsibility because they're fucking retards incapable of even fathoming that they might be part of the problem
just a sea of autistic manchildren without a single shred of a clue

yeah man there should only be one tank spec that works even though other classes have tank specs too. maybe if they didnt want them to tank they shouldnt have included them in the first place you fucking retard.

and somehow its ok to only have one viable tank spec when there are tons of healing and DPS specs that work.
its just shit design and you're a retard.

The city scourge was one of the best events ive ever seen, and I really thought that was what all WoW updates would be like.

It would have been amazing if it started down south and slowly spread north, forcing players to work together to stop it, interfering with the whole world. You could expand upon the skill roster of classes to help people deal with the threat and make it something that goes on for months rather than a few days.

Instead we just got raids, raids, raids and more raids. Its awful what the did to vanilla.

to be fair it's pretty retarded that the spec literally designed for being a tank can't be a viable tank

>Leveling is about exploring this massive lore rich world that I could only imagine when playing warcraft 3
But you already know the world and have done the same thing like 50 times already if you started playing during vanilla or tbc.

but there are still significant differences between paladin, shaman and priest healers?
fuck I'd say disc is WAY more unique than any vanilla healer.

They're viable tanks 99% of the time, while leveling and doing 5mans/pvp
It's called world of warcraft, not world of molten core

Thanks for proving my point.

Not me, I always said it was a dumb idea to balance the game.

Imbalance is fun. I want it so if I play undead I should shit myself when I see a Paladin, they should have holy means of smiting my ass. And if im undead, i should be able to corrupt humans and fuck them up. Throwing in new ways for races and classes to fuck with each other is great. Its fun to have imbalances between classes and races.

yeah imbalance is great when there are clear cut options that are objectively superior over others.
thats FUN.

One of my favorite times was when cheevos got added in Wrath everyone spent a month raiding the shit out each other to kill the city leaders. All you need is some built-in incentive that rewards the players to participate in shit that requires effort on their part to make world events happen.

Mage, warlock, or rogue?
Mage would be undead.
Warlock and rogue orc.
How long will it take to level?
I start a mech e degree on the 23rd of september and have until then to no life.

Because I still find that world a lot of fun. It's like replaying an old game for me. I can't wait to be running around in STV with hundreds of other people

Lol no. Retail healers/tanks/dps are identical. To compare them to vanilla is stupidity.

pretty damn ignorant.

>class uniqueness should be expanded, not contracted
This is the point that needs to hammered in to developers' heads. People want their favorite class to be good because they enjoy the class; turning that class into a reskinned version of another class completely defeats the purpose.

i like game balance where all of the different builds are "equally imbalanced" so to speak, like you said
everyone has some stuff that's bullshit OP against certain builds, but useless against others - that way the gameplay is always dynamic depending on the situation

retail WoW took the exact opposite approach and balanced by making everyone the same and have no strong advantages or disadvantages against each other - a.k.a. BORING

yeah m8 everybody knows that holy paladins are used as raid healers all the time and druids are absolutely just as good as them at tank healing.

Attached: 1559400718516.jpg (499x522, 59K)

Paladin is a raid healer in BFA since season 2

What is that pepe incarnation called ?

>How long will it take to level?
100 hours total if you take the speedrun route, around 150-200 if you play casually but never stop questing/killing stuff
You get 15% rested xp every 24 hours of resting in an ainn, which makes late levels a lot easier

I'M GOING TO BE THE NEXT VURTNE AND YOU WON'T STOP ME, Yea Forums. I'M COMING FOR YOU Yea ForumsIRGINS!!! I'M COMING!!!

docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTm4F0MKf-HFEhHV7RjCS-MmQOFKinmXLNKMVC1N1RILG80RwtSQmAewGs0glOt2GMle9hRdbdTrUG2/pubhtml#

I'm so fucking ready bros.

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wrong
people testing in the beta found dungeon spamming to be incredibly efficient

This.
Go back to retail you faggots.

dungeon spamming will be the only truly viable way at launch because all quest camps will be flooded with faggots for months.

Mage or rogue for leveling, raiding, and wpvp?

>wpvp

>that works even though other classes have tank specs too. maybe if they didnt want them to tank they shouldnt have included them in the first place you fucking retard.
They're called dungeon tanks retard. Why do people think every aspect of a raid should be accessible to 100% of players? Why bring warriors then if Paladins and Druids can main tank raids? For DPS? Why bring Rogues then? Every class had a role in vanilla raiding, not every class had EVERY role but A role. If you don't like that either don't raid or don't play that class or find a guild that likes raiding with funky specs (they exist and did back then).

The idea that people should even be able to main tank high end content on a class that has serious heals is beyond absurd to me.

if the vanilla game had gone on any longer instead of the changes being pushed back to TBC there would have been changes to make pally and druid more viable as tanks
defending bad game design because "muh no changes" is pure unadulterated autism

Survival Hunter

Coming from playing EverQuest into WoW, Warcraft was easier in every aspect including Raids.

>why bring warriors then if Paladins and Druids can main tank raids?
because Warriors can still main tank, and have their own unique abilities that may or may not work better with your group's makeup and strategy

Orc Warlock if only winning PVP is your thing. Mage if you like being welcome in 5 mans as a vending machine.
Rogue if you like spamming the same shitty stun opener with your mace build.

deep arcane

dungeon tanks are useless, you dont need tanks for 5mans period.
your whole line of thinking falls apart when you have warriors being capable of maintanking AND topping DPS charts. but thats ok because reasons. it cant be that the class design in vanilla was unfinished and shit.
somehow having multiple DPS and multiple healers was ok but having multiple viable tanks is a problem.

also
>serious heals without holy talents and gear
lmao. you dont understand how specs work. by design they prevent hybrids from succeeding in all of their potential roles. you commit to one of them.

horde or alliance

>look guys streamers exist
phew lad

i think instead of blaming the class design we might actually should look at the boss/raid design

"have a bulky guy with taunts, x amount of healers and x amount of dps" should not be the only viable strategy for a raid
even in vanilla this game leans way too hard on the traditional role trinity

do you want easier raiding or easier pvp

>by design they prevent hybrids from succeeding in all of their potential roles. you commit to one of them.
>not being that holy paladin that stacks generic +spell power instead of specific +healing and dps'ing with SoR/offensive shock while healing

>group's makeup and strategy
In a raid of 40 people you're gonna have a bunch of everything. Warriors unique abilities in raids are that they do the most single target DPS under good conditions and they are the only ones who can tank real shit, if you take away those they are basically useless.

Hell if they gave someone else a tranq nobody would take a single hunter in late AQ or after but you NEED a hunter to tranq that is the point.

horde have easier wpvp but alliance will have faster BG queues
i plan on alt for other faction but not sure if main horde or ally

Min/max for PVP is Horde races.
Min/max for PVE is Alliance.

>capable of maintanking AND topping DPS charts
Yeah and the trade off is they have the biggest chance of pulling aggro and wiping the raid (especially with the way many bosses cleaves work).

Rogue is essentially maximum "safe" DPS and a warrior with perfect gear is only slightly better at the cost of a raid wipe being a possibility.

Also rogues can get near that damage with a larger variety of gear and weapons (same as mages).

Horde if you want to WPVP with your bros
Alliance if you want to bitch about getting ganked in general chat

imagine thinking that pulling threat is possible with threat meters.
either way you havent done anything to refute anything I have said.
warriors get to be both great DPS and the only viable tank.
other hybrids dont get shit. but its ok. its not bad design. its how things should be.

0-4 tauren warrior
5-9 nelf hunter

Unless you roll on whitemane where the alliance is going to be full of people for whom the horde is a real life stand in. That one is gonna be 50/50 imo. Any other server absolutely expect horde wpvp being better.

Imagine wanting to play a filthy elf. You're lucky.

Warriors take way more gear and work to be that level of DPS you realize right? Like you realize for them to do that they need two entire sets of gear right and two different packages of consumables? You need the DKP to get weapons over the rogues and to get a full set of tank gear to be some kind of God at both. Very very few people will have this.

filthy elf will be my rppvp alt looks like

ok? who said that people want hybrids to be able to play all of their roles in a single set of armor?
fact remains that warriors are still the only ones that can do that.

If you know retail is bad it's because you played it, no?

>MMOs

Attached: 1270497953988.jpg (448x401, 34K)

Technically paladins/druids can hang in there but almost nobody will let them because it's so much work. If paladins get a specific set of armor and consumables they absolutely can keep up (go ask the discord full of them about it).

And comparing warriors to other hybrids is disingenuous because other hybrids are healers. They didn't want people main tanking raids and being able to heal themselves. Or doing top DPS and being able to heal themselves.

Should have the Guild Wars 1 PvP only character option then?

He's saying that warrior is the only class that is capable of performing two roles (tank and dps) optimally in pve. Pretty much every other class only has one optimal role (sometimes not even that):
Priest: Healer
Mage: DPS
Druid: lol, inervate bot
Hunter: lol, tranq bot
Paladin: Healer
Rogue: DPS
Shaman: Healer
Warlock: DPS
Then we have Warrior: Tank OR DPS
See the problem?

Ok but do you see the problem that all the other classes you want to add a second role to are already healers and that is game breaking? Warriors are fucking potatoes without healers in pvp and that's how it balances. If paladins did warrior fucking damage easily then PvP would be so broken it would be retarded. If Main tanks could be part of their own healing it makes things that much easier.

I get where you guys are coming from
>but this class gets two and others dont
But there is a reason why the others dont

Oh and paladins CAN do top tier DPS it's just an even bigger pain than warriors to get there. But it is absolutely possible.

why? it would make them unique. warlocks can lifesteal too and its ok its not like you will be able to heal yourself up heavily anyways because your mana pool will be tiny, you wont have spirit and healing+ gear. you also wont have the good healing talents that boost healing effects.
tanks healing themselves has NEVER been an issue when they started making other tank specs more viable. for some time they even made those tanks better at specific things in TBC. bears being better against spellcasters because of their huge HP pools and paladins better at AoE tanking because of their AoE spells and shield/parry/dodge mitigation.

what eu server is good

Did you even play a Paladin in Classic? They were not topping any DPS meters. I played Paladin and Rogue in Vanilla retail, no Paladin was anywhere close to the top of DPS charts. They were healers for the main tank because of the free heals from crits.

are you saying there's absolutely no way to make a balanced tank/healer hybrid? i don't see how it would be that difficult

for example: prot pally can tank and heal, but make them shit at dps. this makes them viable while still leaving warrior with the niche of being a high-dps tank

I played ret until about level 40 and then I dropped that shitty class because they advertised a hybrid capable of playing three roles but all I got was a shitty healer.

Golemagg is going to be the portuguese/spain server, so avoid that

And your pvp is an overly equal mess with no interest that no one enjoys? Whatever retailkids I'm not going to argue with you, I've got my version of the game you've got yours

Those issues could easily be addressed by a simple talent: Reduce Damage Taken by X% and Reduce Healing Done by Y%. Maybe throw some threat generation in there if necessary. Voila, hybrid tank now viable. Of course, if you wanted to go the extra mile you could incorporate self healing in to the expected mitigation, sort of the way early blood DK tanks worked back in the day.

>deflecting towards an entirely different thing
you are legit low IQ

>for example: prot pally can tank and heal, but make them shit at dps. this makes them viable while still leaving warrior with the niche of being a high-dps tank
See in you guys mind a spec RADICALLY transforms a class but in vanilla specs were a more subtle thing, it wasnt like "oh now your normal DPS moves suck because you took this spec" specs didnt change your core abilities that much...

>Tfw I am going to bot my Paladin to level him up
>In a pvp realm
>Only to solo dungeons as protchad for money

wtf spec defining core skills like mortal strike were at the very end of the talent tree.
for a good reason too. they didnt want other specs to have access to those things.

No idiot my point was you cannot have hybrids that powerful and still balance pvp without forcing specs to radically change classes underlying abilities/playstyle. Unless you want to start separating pvp and pve stats which is always shitty in MMOs

do you think h pal could farm the lashers in DM east? or can only prot do it

thanks

so shazzrah or gehennas?

Ok and now when that guy wants to run a normal dungeon and be a healer for his friend he has to pay 50g to respec and get his normal level of healing back?? Lol??

>without forcing specs to radically change classes underlying abilities/playstyle
specs should do that. the alternative is dead useless specs that you have in vanilla WoW. when I pick up a shield I want a completely different playstyle from when I use a 2hander. its only logical.
also
>vanilla PVP
>balance
lmao

whats the problem with that? warriors have to do the same thing if they want to do good damage in instances after a weekend of main tanking.

it doesn't have to be a black-and-white thing
just to where the harder you lean into prot, the less room you have for the stronger healing and dps abilities

this is already how it works considering you can't go all the way down in all trees at once, you have to pick which things you want to be good at, even within your class

imagine thinking that giving a paladin a taunt would ruin the game.

Depends of your pop preference, shazzrah is crowded and gehennas is the newest server they've created to spread people over

Only certain classes even gave a shit about the end of the tree (and only certain trees) and only certain classes had world ending moves at the end of the tree. Admittedly warrior was one but Mortal Strike didnt change every single thing about an arms warriors damage taken/given or abilities it just gave him one powerful tool that cornerstones his abilities. It's not like a mortal strike warrior cant still fucking tank sometimes without being gimped because hes not full prot.

Doing >Those issues could easily be addressed by a simple talent: Reduce Damage Taken by X% and Reduce Healing Done by Y%
This

Does that and forces gimping to create balance and respecing to ungimp yourself

You can probably farm them via thorns shit and healing yourself

if they give paladin a taunt they'll add LFR

Gehennas is dubbed Swehennas, with a sprinkle of slavs. Pic related for Shazzrah.

Attached: shazzrah.png (974x243, 160K)

these are the same kind of people that think putting in the barbershop would ruin the entire experience

Of Paladin gets a taunt shaman should get a +threat and +arm talent plus a taunt.

Can you raid/gear up as a holypriest and then switch to shadow with the same gear for pvp?

they never explored the potential of an enhancement tank that could potentially tank with the help of taunt totems.

No, Firemaw is the newest server to spread people over. Gehennas is practically on full status already.

No shadow needs specific stuff. Almost nobody had any raid tier sets that helped their off specs except Paladins t2 after the revamp

Go for generic spellpower (damage and healing) instead of healing power (only healing). Your heals will be a bit worse (since healing power is usually higher than spellpower), but not to the point you'd be completely gimped imo.

based

Ah shit, I forgot that there's no generic spellpower stat in vanilla

If I recall good amount of the PvP gear in the right blend is actually decent for shadow priests but dont quote me on that

option 1 1-5
option 2 6-0

LFR is getting developed right now anyways.
Retards might think it wont spread but addons like gearscore essentially became mandatory.

yes there is. but TBC is the expansion to be an OP healer 1v1

classic.wowhead.com/item=17105/aurastone-hammer
There is, unless wowhead is wrong and I'm retarded (likely). It's just not called spellpower, it's "damage and healing done by magical spells and effects."

>going with option 2

Attached: into that.png (476x534, 135K)

Yeah straight spriest is way more OP 1v1 in vanilla if you know how to play it

monkey can play an spriest

>tfw probably going to have to play on 160ms from australia to play in a LGBT guild
why live

they did it in TBC and paladins became the best main tanks for literally the entire expansion

I am(was, don't like BFA) a mythic raider and I really enjoy the process. In example, I has 600 boss kills in ABT (all difficulties) on my main alone. I enjoy the fights and the process of improving my DPS fight after fight.

Absolutely based and unquestionably redpilled

There's already an Addon made for LFG

Yeah but the little things the very best do set them apart

They gave them a bit more than just a taunt, user.

only that they werent.

shh, let him dream

So for anyone thats played the beta. How strong are the weather effects?

Imagine thinking that lack of taunt is the only issue with paladin tanking. People like you will fuck up this game if they will go with voting for new content like OSRS.

They didn’t lmao how dumb can you be nigga like lmaooooo
You started in legion didn’t you?

im swedish but im not sure i want to play with swedes tbqh

Changing how bosses works only ends up with raids being the focus again.

People want Classic+, but they want it to improve the 1 to 60 experience, not raids. They want Blizz to expand upon that 1 to 60 to give people more reason to keep playing it and keeping it fresh, without resorting to the Retail method which is slap on more levels and gear to make everything before redundant.

For example giving Paladin more viable ways to tank, but those ways are different from warrior, like more bubbles/protection spells/buffs. Then you can look at Shaman and consider maybe totem based tanking. Of course maybe in practice these ideas dont work at all and thats fine too, its just finding ways to expand C+ which is important.

A new city scourge event would be really cool, except maybe over a longer time frame and more involved in getting players to stop it. Or the whole AQ event was great too.

You faggots aware that addon can't teleport you to the dungeon, right? The issue with LFG us not that it looks for a group for you but that it does it cross realm and teleports you there. Anyone who's gonna use it is in for a shock when they will get corpse camped near SM.

>but they want it to improve the 1 to 60 experience, not raids
what do you do when you're 60

oh yeah taking a flight path to the dungeon makes the journey that much more personal.

Attached: 1558644622648.jpg (720x481, 35K)

>completely ignores the last part
You are a PvE faggot, aren't you?

I dont know, maybe retire to a comfy wood cabin in the forest with my wife, two kids and a dog. Spend my days just reminiscing about the good times by the log fire cooking marshmallows with the kids.

For PvE NG+ with hardmode
For PvP, EvE style resource/space ownership with guild/faction base warfare

>Spend my days just reminiscing about the good times
>good times
haha good one user

>voting
>first things voted in are transmog and updated models/textures
>autists rip each other to shreds
The shitshow would be glorious

woah just dead walk to the instance you made a guy lose two minutes of his life that changes everysthing

>For PvE NG+ with hardmode
Did you not play EQ to understand why raids were what they were?

Well the good times would be yesterday, when I woke up in a wood cabin a million miles away from humanity.

why would anybody want to redo the questing shit
people are glad when they're done with it.

Did you not play retail WoW to understand why raids killed the game?

You cant win this argument kid. If you claim raids are good Ill tell you to fuck off to retail, if you claim they just need fixing ill point to 15 years of updates to WoW that never got raids to work.

GG no re, raids are gay.

Let me guess, you play every game like a lone wolf, you do not join guilds, you do not join forums or discord / whatever chat is being used and your mic has likely not been used in years if you even have one. Am I right?

Sorry poofta

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raids worked for 15 years though

>LEVELING AND GriiiiiNDING AND MOUNTIES AND AND CHEEEEEVIIIIIIESSSSS!!!! PETSIES AND NG+ EPIC!!!
How much estrogen do you take a day XIV trannoids?

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>Half all players and AI HP
>Make grouping up to complete anything required
>Slightly faster exp gain to reduce grinding and focus on more challenging fights
Sounds like F U N

grouping is fucking ass in a quest based game.

>using discord
>ever
yikes

>what do you do when you're 60
Fuck hopefully im dead before I turn 60

Oh you mean in WoW. World events, like the scourge, except bigger.

XIV has the absolute worst leveling experience dude, fuck are you on?

6mg (3x2mg) estradiol valerate :3

>Raids are gaaay!!
Imagine being so bad you get benched 24/7.
You played ret didn’t you?

It literally didnt. Vanilla/TBC grew off leveling, Wrath stagnated on raiding and Cata killed the game. WoW went from Blizz number 1 money maker to like number 10 from raids alone they were that bad.

Yeah I am a bad ass lone wolf...
I come in and save everyone to...
I am sorta like Gregor...

>discord / whatever chat is being used
retard kys

lmao

Xiv trannies love leveling and hate challenging community based content.
All their content is LFG and 8 man “hard mode” raids which are easier than nuwow...

gearing as a fresh max level (~3 days playtime) > leveling > raiding

>crude humor
oh no

>Xiv trannies love leveling
>All their content is LFG and 8 man
Pick one retard

>all this raid hating and people shunning minmaxing
Oh my god.

The WoW community actually became good.

This is bizzario world all along.

Attached: 4564653232654563.png (397x577, 379K)

>Raiding
Lol, the first two phases consists of pug-able raids, so if you got plenty of time, you are better off leveling several characters and have different raiding experiences.
BWL isn't even hard, will not even need flasks unless you speedrun and aim for world first.
ZG is a downgrade in terms of raids in challenge if you got plenty of (updated) BWL-gear.

That's 4 phases with relatively easy and straight forward raids....

WPVP while leveling is the sole reason im playing classic

I'm just happy to go back to when the lore didn't suck.

No blue goat people, no "only one legion across the whole multiverse", no "there must always be a lich king", no Garrosh, no Go'el, no dumbass Chronicle screwing up a lot of what made the lore fun

Please stop murder me, I am but an innocent alliance warrior

one spell from later expansions is added to each class:
>warrior: shattering throw
>paladin: crusader strike
>rogue: cloak of shadows
>hunter: kill command
>druid: force of nature
>warlock: felguard

the game improves

>For PvP, EvE style resource/space ownership with guild/faction base warfare
actually a very interesting idea
would this work kind of like making the game world a giant version of battlegrounds?

vanilla already fucked up the lore by forcing the forsaken into the horde.

Fear not friend for I am a mage of the alliance, you shall live

They level via LFG lmao

I'm going to poopsock to 30 then sit my ass at Redridge and make little allybabbys seethe

Well yes, but it was only slightly fucked up, rather than completely fucked up

And the Nelves being in the Alliance was at least as big a fuck up as putting the Forsaken in the Horde

Priest: vampiric touch or shadow fiend to alleviate the mana issues.

Felguard is a tallent

Literally nobody can prove this wrong.

>tauren and forsaken in the same faction
100% retarded anti lore fuckup.

I can. Warrior needs heroic leap as its the most fun skill in the game.

>Gnomes and Night Elves in the same faction
equally fucked up

Incorrect.
Disengage is easily the best.

Just throw TBC into vanilla and rebalance it for lvl60. Game automatically inproves.

That would include flight, so no

Uuuh user? I need to RUSH to lvl 60 so I can spam shadowbolt for 5 minutes straight per boss.

I think death grip is the most fun ability in the game, but fuck Death Knights, so I'd be happy if it never returns

I meant mostly talents, not actual content.

I'm sorry does retail have 40 man raids? Real ones?

Rather have spell reflect on warrior desu. Also what would Mages get?

>Make a new land mass
>Divide that land mass into 'regions' with a central defend-able structure/base/castle/[insert here] in every single region
>going to need a few hundred of these regions, spread over a fairly large area
>Guilds can claim these regions by clearing the mobs from the structure, and claiming its flag, which gives them control over the structure and the region it is in
>Regions are divided into larger areas, which have certain advantages and disadvantages to owning them, as well as special mobs/resources
>Structures can be upgraded and built upon to provide better security, resources, crafting, ect by gathering resources
>You can attack your own side but only if you declare war, you can attack the other side without needing to declare war
>Guilds can declare war on each other to attack other guilds structures for themselves, rules will have to be in place to ensure that attacks take place at certain times to give both sides a fair chance at attacking/defending
Then fill the map with unique resources, crafting reagents, mobs, items, ect

Let the world PvPs have a landmass that matters, a way to level, make money, progress, which is involved in PvP.

It wont be balanced at all. Some classes, like warriors, might get rekt a lot. But that doesnt matter, it would be a great way to have PvP in the world which mattered and led to alliances/betrayals/wars/actual fun and infuriating rage.

You can get gear from pvp in classic, right? How good does it compare to raid gear? Can I just pvp endgame without falling behind?

An offensive arcane spell other than magic missiles. Any would do, really.

>An offensive arcane spell other than magic missiles. Any would do, really.
That just got me thinking of the wizard in Diablo 3

Man, that combat in WoW would be great

Off the top of my head, pvp gear has a lot of stamina but is otherwise fairly similar to normal gear.
I think some PvEing is required to have a good PvP outfit, not the other way around. Don't quote me on this though surely a pserver veteran will know better than me

Spellsteal, so detect magic would have a reason to be used.

I will say if they did this, didnt add pallyshamans to each side, no goats and white elves and no flying that actually has some merit (not that it would get done but it isnt the worst idea)

it's okay at first, come AQ time it's near AQ level. It does require a lot of PVP to get, though. Rank 10 iirc? Don't remember; it's been forever and I don't want to Google it

things that aren't in vanilla but are actually good additions but would make autists seethe:
>barbershop
>transmog
>option to use nu-graphics
>no quest tracking limit
>connected flight paths

Only one I oppose in that list is transmog

I'm not opposed to transmog but I never really bother with it

>Yes
>No
>Sure
>Yes
>Yes
The solution to clownsuits is the introduction of custom armor color and effect control. Transmog is 100% dogshit and every game with it is irredeemable rubbish.

>barbershop
>transmog
>option to use nu-graphics
literally the cancer killing good gameplay

Add dual-spec

>steaming shitpile 1.0 is better than steaming shitpile 4.0!!

Is this irony?

>Wanting to be in LGBTWTFBBQ guild.
Why? Faggots are fucking horrible. Just hang out with straights and jerk it to gay porn on /trash/ and /hm/ instead like a smart person.

Transmog makes leveling alts bareable.
It's fucking retarded that some bad ass hero needs to reach max level before he can look cool.

>I play an MMO for the single-player conte
alright champ

but im a lesbian and only like girls and femboys

transmog is the single best way to make old content desirable as people will seek it out to get cosmetic armors.
its a great system.

No fuck you. But they can reduce the 50g cost.

this just encourages the philosophy of making specs their own mini-classes instead of branches of one unified class

barbershop is the only thing i want

seething
retail is better than your 15 years old game

You'll never be a real woman, tranny.

Depends on the class, yes it has very high stamina and is some of the best high stam gear for many non-stam classes but that said certain PvE gear is way better for certain classes depending on playstyle and at the very highest end the tippy top of PvE gear beats it pretty much across the board but again it depends on class and playstyle.

If you're talking all the way to high warlord it has to do with whether you're melee or not if I remember. Basically melee classes get weapons at r14 that are only topped by the last best of the best shit but casters get weapons from pve that do a lot more for them. The flip side is that pvping as a melee with non-raid non-r14 weapons (especially as warrior) can be hard as fuck if you're in a premade and you start facing raiders with solidly better gear. Rogue is more forgiving.

You're not a badass hero until you're max level, until then you're just an adventurer. Tricking people into thinking they deserved respect at lower levels is a major problem with modern WoW.

no, you're going to look like a stupid rodeo clown and you're gonna like it because i said so

Then just add dual spec and make absolutely no changes to the classes

Looking at the replies i realize how much MMO players are drug addict and this is probably the main reason why WoW expac immedialty killed the game.
Instead on focusing on quest design, the actual world, etc, the devs had to cater to that nerd audience always asking them for more.
This is why TBC immedialty killed the lore by killing all of the big RTS heroes, because the devs HAD to satisfy the ego of the big nerds who can't stop playing.

which is fine.
most classes couldnt do things like PVP and raids with the same spec anyways.
alternatively they could make respeccing a bit cheaper. it gets excessive for some classes.

Wrong. Fuck off to retail.

Or you could do it just because it looks good, then not wear the suboptimal gear into combat.

You don't need transmog to make aesthetically pleasing gear desirable

no arguments, as expected.

WoW offers a better single player experience than every fucking open world released in the last 10 years at least.

wow classic+:
>you can now go into ghostlands and eversong woods to try out the new level 60 raid: Silvermoon City where the blood elves and Kael are trying to funnel dark magic in order to restore the sunwell
>a strange object fell near teldrassil on a unexplored island, seems it contains inteligent lifeform, try out the new raid: The purge of Azuremyst, venture to the lands and kill this alien invasion and put an end to it when you manage to enter their crashed starship

Fuck BElfs and fuck goat people

Based.

thats pretty damn retarded.

Dual spec has to be very expensive. Respec is a gold sink after all.

now why would i ever play a hybrid spec when i can just switch back and forth between two other specs that do both things better individually with the press of a button

why the fuck does classic cause so much seethe? you dont have to play it dumb niggers

because you cant use both specs at the same time in combat?
fucking hell.

this is what wow players believe because all they play is wow

Would pay extra for this

Because each swap will cost you 50 gold.

>wow
>community

Tirisfal Glades > Dun Morogh > Mulgore > Elwynn Forest > Durotar > shit > Teldrassil

Swapping between 2 individually better specs is what 99.9% of the population does when they're respeccing between PVE and PVP.

Explain to me why it is beneficial to the playerbase to put a severe cost on a player whenever they want to enter PVP from PVE or vice versa. Explain how this type of content locking is good for me

>no arenas

into the trash it goes

bring back the corrupted blood disease

>He prioritizes quests for leveling
Oh ho no no no

because its easily going to be the most popular game released this year and that makes inferior games seethe

>Explain to me why it is beneficial to the playerbase to put a severe cost
Gold sink good for the economy

Swap Tirisfal and Dun Morogh and we're golden

Elf content is so garbage. You can feel that the devs already hated that race back then.

>Transmog makes leveling alts bareable.
>It's fucking retarded that some bad ass hero needs to reach max level before he can look cool.

you're one the reasons why retail is shit

It creates diversity within classes. It's very important to force people to choose between specs. It makes some people more valuable in different situations. You shouldn't be able to respec at all. It's only there as a concession in the first place. But there must be a penalty for it. You can also make hybrid specs and not be the best in either situation but be able to do both at a lower rate. even more diversity.

Blizz balancing populations by giving NE crappy racials was amazing. If you want to be an elf it was going to cost you.

but you aren't a badass hero in classic. the only time you actually become one is when you kill rag and shit which is why the good looking matching gear comes from raids.

How so exactly?

>no fun allowed
yep, sums up classic pretty well

>friend simulator is the strongest point of his game
user

That's my plan, gonna spec prot the whole damn way.

Because it's a serious threat to BFA.

This is ancient thinking, look at any established pserver and you will find that every cunt has a mage parked at DM to farm infinite amounts of gold so they can respec on their toons as often as they please. There's no deeper philosophy to it, the cost of respeccing is just a small time gate to keep people grinding away

if you don't think it's fun then don't play it

Agreed

>high end players cant stand to accept one spec and need perfection at all times
>high end players are the ones who end up with too much gold and break game economy
>respec costs high end players greatly reducing their gold supply unless they pick a spec a stick with it
Forces Uber nerds to choose between being perfect at all times and being rich or you're gonna have to work your ass off to have your cake and eat it too

because its shit but retards will fall for it
at least we wont have to wait long until everyone discover that

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Literally nothing to do with friends. Its questing, partying up and dungeons.

I won't

okay but why does it matter to you? what makes you come to Yea Forums to talk about a game you dont like?

>friend simulator
Can it just be having friends? Are all friends just a simulation then? What makes a friend not a simulation?

okay :)

stalagg bros...what happened to our comfy medium pop server....its over reddit won

because theres 10 classic threads at any time on the catalog maybe

>stalagg server
>no fuegen
sasuga blizz

>be average mage who dings 60
>wants to pvp as fire
>arent allowed into raids
>this somehow only affects the bourgeoisie of WoW

>Explain to me why it is beneficial to the playerbase to put a severe cost on a player whenever they want to enter PVP from PVE or vice versa. Explain how this type of content locking is good for me
Firstly instanced PvP should be deleted, serves no purpose in an MMO.

Second, anyone who specs for PvP is worse in PvE and vice verse. It adds flavor and immersion to the world to have people specialize and not homogenized. If there is any issue here its the fact that world PvP doesnt pay out in money or gear and also has no deeper mechanic than killing random players, but specs are perfect the way they are locked behind a hard paywall. Adding in things like a bounty system, and expanding upon world PvP is the solution to your problem, not letting everyone do everything all the time.

Your sort of bullshit is what made retail what it is today, a fucking homogenized mess.

i just looked and counted 4 with one of them about to archive

50g respects dont affect the perfectionists with mages to farm, and a bunch of transmute alts. The respec costs fuck everyone BUT them

>Your sort of bullshit is what made retail what it is today, a fucking homogenized mess.
This so fucking much.

WHY DO YOU CUNTS KEEP ASKING FOR THINGS RETAIL HAS

FUCK OFF TO RETAIL

TBC took a step in the right direction with wpvp objectives (except for the flying)
Imagine if AB and AV were just open zones. Although this would only work on well balanced servers.

>having the EXACT same argument as 2004
>except we LITERALLY have history showing what happens when you change respec
Spoiler alert: all classes start losing any character to them, first its
>let me respec!
Then its
>let me dps/tank or heal!
Then its
>let me in to all this content!
Then its
>make it easier! give me lfg! make it faster! let me fly!

And now you have fucking shitty retail WoW with everything you ever wanted.

Makes your decisions carry more weight.

>hard paywall
Why is this term thrown around? Why do people insist that its hard to make money in vanilla? in a matter of days after DM is out everyone who is a poopsock will have thousands upon thousands of gold for endless respecs, the only people who are going to be experiencing this hard paywall you talk about are casual players

>dual spec is slippery slope to flex raids and lfr
lmao kys

flying came before lfg, whole post invalidated :)

>LITERALLY what happened with Retail WoW over 15 years
>h-haha slippery slope right guys?!
No, wrong, it FUCKING HAPPENED YOU ABSOLUTE CUNT.

>having the EXACT same argument as 2004
I know I feel like I'm in deja vu to 2005

No one gives a flying fuck what 1% of the population does.

So did making everything easier it was an arbitary list of stupid fucking ideas made by morons like you which ruined retail.

But go on, go back and play retail and tell me its amazing and perfect. It has EVERYTHING you complained about in it, and its shit.

These are probably the same people who will argue there was no slippery slope in tolerance to the shit we deal with now in clown world

so how long before servers are ghost towns? 3 months?

retail wow is retail wow it wasnt ever meant to stay the exact same game every xpac
classic is classic and dual spec means literally nothing
take your meds

>high respec costs are essentially to maintaining the integrity of the game are completely essential to class balance among other things
>nobody here has seen a pserver economy after a few months of DM being out
Its almost as inflated as fucking retail

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bad shitpost.

Honestly never. OSRS and RS are both going strong.

While I want Classic to beat Retail in numbers I dont think it will happen. But it will not die any time soon. It will last for years.

Paranoid autists. Lmao.

>No one gives a flying fuck what 1% of the population does
If you think DM farming is something that only 1% of the population will do then you're a clueless nigger whose first time in there was probably through dungeon finder in WoD

>not just raiding as your pvp spec because all classic raids are complete jokes

Get fucked you casual cunt. Stay in retail with all your convenience bullshit.

>all these upset retail fag replies
More like painfully accurate post proving you're a bunch of dumb cunts who ruined your own game.

osrs gets updates with new content is blizzard going to do the same?

desu they didnt overdo the server setups like in vanilla so it will probably be fine for a while.
you will have way too many people on the servers at launch but it will even out.

>only top 1% can respec no one else can do it!!
>omg lol everyone can respec so easy to make gold!
Oh good you proved you're a moron, here is your last (you)

Blizzard have said nothing about whether they do progression or a new version of WoW with new updates. They are just focusing on releasing the game and seeing what people want.

people are talking out of their asses.
literally everything that is in vanilla is objectively good and well designed.

You really want them to fuck wow up twice?

If its Classic+, another 10 years
If its progression, the moment Wrath comes out it dies

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Dual spec is hardly convenience bullshit as it should cost more than epic riding and mount, and the only people making use of it are those who farm pvp on off days instead of raidlogging like retail trash.
I just dont know how you can conflate wanting dual spec to wanting lfr.

i didnt say that? the person compared wow to osrs and osrs gets completely new content that is polled for to keep players interested. please read just a little bit

>watching vanilla purists try and convince themselves that high respec costs arent just a basic bitch form of time gating which inevitably results in you committing more hours to farming between content

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Not him but OSRS got it right, apart from the auction house, its a well maintained game and the updates make sense.

Take everything which Blizzard did do from vanilla and ignore it, that only leaves a certain number of things they can do for it which will be by default better than the first time through since every choice they made after launch was a mistake.

Except AQ and scourge events, those were kino.

No but the flaws don't detract from it that much. I could still think of a hundred ways to improve vanilla

See

I just don't trust blizzard to do the right thing. Look at layering

#nochanges babbies are fucking retarded. did anyone see how upset those mongoloids got when they found out the old default raid frames weren't in?

yeah. better than being stuck with a dead game that never gets anything new.

See

>Look at layering
Overrated Yea Forums fear mongering for a practical feature which will be removed?

Oh noes what will we do. I would rather I can play on day 1 than not be able to play for 2 weeks because everyone spawns in at once and crashes the server.

>I just dont know how you can conflate wanting dual spec to wanting lfr.
he's retarded

i remember watching them sperg out at the updated cleaner damage number font its literally the same thing but less pixelated

No theyre entirely correct, no changes is the only logical option

I never felt as wanted in a raid as a shadow priest as when we had Vampiric touch. I've also never had as much focus on doing my best dps as when the mana given to healers was directly linked to the damage I dealt. Such a great time.

You're just shitposting, I clearly said why it leads to what it does.

Ignore it all you want, you dont get your double spec or lower respec.

Enjoy your shitshow retail.

Honestly even then that is something that occurs in the mature economy of the game. Real tryhards will be rerolling new servers for fresh speedruns this time not trying to dominate the economy on one server in a museum game with no transfers and no future updates to hoard said gold for. And even if they have enough for infinite respects as long as they dont singularly control the economy (other DM farmers will compete in gold total and therefore market purchasing power) then its fine.

>new raid frames
>updated graphics
>bnet integration
>layering
n-no changes!!!!

clean font is a slippery slope which will lead to LFR and arenas that can only be reached by flying mounts

The servers will still crash, layering won't mitigate the problem one bit.

The way respec work isnt not about keeping it 100% vanilla, its just a stupid idea to fuck with respeccing. The problem is that PvP specs have no way to progress. The solution is to expand world PvP with more features, not to change how respecs work.

Your way is low IQ bandaid fix which retail did and failed. Adding content which expands upon the desire of players to specialize in either PvE or PvP is what a good game designer would be. You would not want to respec if you could progress properly in world PvP, and if you wanted to play PvE you would have a second character who was dedicated to that.

Why would you want any of those things? Oh I know, you're a retail cocksucker

Come on now we both know that layering does mitigate the issues a lot, you're right it might will have a shitton of issues but it will still be better.

The thing about UI changes is that people gonna put everything back in via addons so why bother. I don't understand why they removed shit the like cool down timers and focus frame. But that's nochanges for you. And I know that you can't create focus frame via addons, that's just an example of pointless change.

where did i say i wanted them?

>mentally ill leveling only casuals
these threads are hilarious

>people gonna put everything back in via addons
Then let those people ruin their own experiences

Moron

>new raid frames
honestly a good change desu
people who never dragged those fucking things out all over their messy screen please @ me and tell me how good that system was

It won't mitigate shit, the servers are already so overpopulated that blizzard is begging people to change to their new bandaid servers. And the game isn't even out yet. Layering has done nothing to reduce queues.

>literally everything that is in vanilla is objectively good and well designed.
Especially memespecs and not connected fly paths.

im gonna use questie, the lfg addon, and classic gearscore and theres nothing you can do to stop me.

>demanding retail features
>when you could just play retail
Apart from Soul players, retail WoW players are some of the most stupid gamers in the world.

>classic gearscore
tell me it isn't so

Plz expand upon bnet integration. How will it work in vanilla?
I remember using a fake name back when it was introduced and they wanted to make your real name public on the forums instead of your character name.

layering isnt supposed to reduce queues retard. its supposed to make it so people who are in the game can play without 10k people being in elwynn forest at once

>wow classic is so crowded nobody plays that game

>tfw half of 'LE HARDCORE VANILLA FANS' are younger than vanilla

This is how Classic should work. We tried changing specs/classes/races for balanced PvE/PvP and it failed horribly. The solution is more content in these areas, not just trying to make everyone able to do everything at once. PvPers have to do PvE because PvP content is lacking, so fix the content.

Um user, layering works by taking 10,000 people and divided it down to four groups of 2500. It has no impact on queues.

Queues are themselves a necessary evil, otherwise the servers would die when player 10,001 joined.

>tfw I'll be leading around a bunch of zoomers who were the same age when I played the game
:')

>Queues are themselves a necessary evil, otherwise the servers would die when player 10,001 joined.
b-but nostalrius!

dual spec in itself leads to nothing
dont cry about shit that happened in mop or wod or whatever no one gives a fuck and stop shit posting

bruh
pugs aint even a thing in vanilla
certainly not for current tier content

Polls show the average age for Classic is slightly higher than when vanilla came out, its the 24 to 36 range. Horde is 1% lower age than Alliance. Kinda funny.

Im not fully across it but Nost had some different server arrangement, Blizz dont use to support more players at once. In turn they had to turn up spawns a lot though. Blizz want old spawns and old exp gain which means less people overall. Medium still means more players than vanilla ever had though, so its going to be a super rough launch.

okay.

>pugs aint even a thing in vanilla
nice joke, people will be pugging mc week 2

>pugs aint even a thing in vanilla
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

you're retarded lmao. Its an MMO and people want to play their mains. they also want to play all the given content. if there was more PVP to the game people would still want respecs to play more of the PVP next to their PVE.
fucking idiot.

See what said

Fuck you and fuck respeccs.

>Statistics showed that players rarely switched between PvP and PvE unless forced to which they were
Lol, you're wrong. Nice try shitposter.

>not having an alt just for pvp and another for pve
casuals.

what you describe didnt even last for a day because of backlash.

Only the top guilds will even have 40 60s in 7 days. Fucking pugs wont even have the aqual quintessence in two weeks.

Every normal human being will hit 60 in one week.

How are people this bad at the game like you? I levee a high mountain Tauren to 110 to have a max level druid just for the mage tower. I was able to do it in shit ass gear only 1 week after hitting 110. I also got the disco kitty in only 1 attempt I believe.

What is more pathetic when I finished the mage tower this druid was sitting outside it in full mythic gear still unable to do it. I whispered him to ask why are you failing he said, "I keep lagging"

I told him I'm an American living in Finland and have around 300 ms at all times playing on US servers. Stop blaming lagg and realize you are doing something wrong. He blocked me after that.

It's Insane to think that so many mythic raiders are so bad at the game. I don't raid anymore but I love these solo challenge shit to prove you are a good player.

Only artifact I admit I fucked up on not getting was the frost mage one. I didn't have the gear for it but it should have been possible for me.

show me those statistics

LOL
You fucking retard
A week played MAYBE

>calling unemployed people normal

are you saying pvp should be normalized like it is in retail?
specs are diverse, what is ideal for one activity isnt for the other unless you want to sacrifice effectiveness. how is there any other way around that other than dual spec?

I know but I already had the fake name up and running. I don't like adding people in WoW as friends and having them know my real name so I'm wondering how it works.

>being a wagie
go play retail

>retailbabby thinks 1-60 today is the same as classic
yikes

you have a seperate blizzard ID that only uses your game tag these days.

Some autists will be doing 20 hour days for the first week. And some of those will be doing 72 hour shifts with 4 hour breaks.

>world record is just over 4 days played
>normal humans will spend 100 hours in one week attempting a world record tier accomplishment incredibly difficult to achieve for the best classes even harder for many of the more neccessary ones, requiring solid knowledge of the game to even stand a chance at keeping pace
>even top classic youtubers doubt the very best guilds will be able to beat Rag before first lockout
>but pugs will beat it on week 2 right after those guys do
top zozzle

Never played retail past BC, what was this?

No doubt, but those are hardly 'normal' human beings. could you even imagine what someone who plays for 72 hour shifts would smell like?

Stop being an underage newfag and find the blue posts yourself

they added a magetower challenge which is single player and different for every spec.
you had to do a specific scenario and if you succeeded you got a cosmetic weapon skin.
at some point the tower got removed so people cant get those skins anymore by overgearing the challenge.

I knew that you made it up lmao

>Every normal human being will hit 60 in one week.
If you play 40 hours a week it takes a fucking MONTH to reach 60.

Not him but its true which is why PvP got its own items later so PvPers never had to do PvE. Cross play between PvE and PvP was like < 10%, nearly no one switched they stuck to one thing. This shit was all common knowledge back in the day.

>back in vanilla
>on my rank 10 dwarf warrior or rank 10 undead mage
>wait in que for less than 1 minute
>had iTunes opened that I used with my ipod nano
>but on headphones
>find my "pvp dragon force Playlist"
>spent hours doing this

I hope you zooms zooms get to have a similar experience

I also had a Playlist for ganking lowbies in red ridge mountains consisting of Iron maiden songs on my undead mage.

common knowledge my ass. maybe YOU didnt do it but tons of people did both.
PVP items were a thing from the moment they added actual PVP content, the battlegrounds.

>listening to anything other than the default music
youtube.com/watch?v=YfMn7UfZzGc

Go to 40:40 and tell me this isnt the most nostalgic thing of all time

Just telling you the facts, had you played vanilla you would have know that.

fuck off retard

Dont feel so bad, at least you get to experience real WoW since you never got to play it Wrath kid.

Ah sweet. So does this replace the old friends list in wow or do you have three ways of adding a friend now?

>implying getting the contest winners tabard in tm/ss wasnt the first pvp content

Shit up faggot. Av and red ridge mountains are too passive and cozy to be good pvp music zoom zoom. I never used my soundtrack for WSG for example because it was solid.

>playing pvp
Sorry you got lost, this is classic not retail.

Keep to your containment game, thanks.

I didnt know classic babbs were all carebears

>classic PVE
MC and BWL were so hard dude I cant wait !!!

Retail is more casual than vanilla period.

Sorry you seem to be still lost, back to retail you go.

so why arent you playing retail where the PVE is substantially harder?

doubt it. retail players actually want to do the endgame content unlike you literal babies.

>retail shitters wont just go play their game even though it's up right now
Really makes you think

Bruh the game isn't even out

does it matter?
this thread is literally filled with actual toddlers who say that the game is only about leveling.