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nah mario is better made by miles

sa is a clunky mess full of defects
sa2 is the worst game ever made

I disagree with alot of the points about 64 controlling bad. Also you dont need to dislike one to like another.

well I loved Sonic Adventure as a kid and Mario 64 not so much.

>released only 2 years later
You underestimate how much 2 years mattered back then. Technology was increasing at an incredible rate. Also SA was on a much more powerful machine.

Guess the retarded tumblr crowd doesnt know what clunky means.

Reminder that OP got from a Twitter user

I don’t love Sonic Adventure 1 but come on man 2 is great

This is bait guys. Just let it die

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Nice try, but AHiT dumpsters SM64.

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There is not a single sonic

If you actually think sa2 is the worst game ever then you haven't played a lot of games. Personally sa2 is fine it definitely has problems but I feel most people exaggerate its flaws.

We know but we just want the opportunity to talk about 3d platformers.

>sa2 is the worst game ever made

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>have to move the camera manually in a 3D platformer
jesus christ, this webm is supposed to be a good representation of the game, right?

Hat in time's movement is smoother but I don't think it's better. All the movement feels less comitted and satisfying because it's so easy to adjust your movement in midair or make sharp turns at any speed without your momentum really mattering at all. In Mario 64 your momentum actually matters which makes it feel better to me.

You could have had very compelling bait, but you overplayed your hand too early.
Mario 64 was the king of good 3D controls. It's undeniably enjoyable to just aimlessly acrobat or fly around open spaces, without even any enemy interaction or objectives.

I would honestly play this game but the developers seem like assholes and plus I hate colored people and women

Reminder that Sonic Heroes is an underrated masterpiece.
youtube.com/watch?v=I5IMX1BjFEM

Mario 64 had better controls, and a camera system that most games use today. Sonic Adventure had many glitches and bad controls that everybody avoids.

what's better?
Air dashes? That's the only difference.
That and lacking all the different jumps that Mario has.

Why do you always post this song tho

I don’t even remember this one

SA is shit

Games don't age.

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Because it's Nostalgia: The Music.
I don't care if you call me a pussy or a fag or whatever, this music actually makes me cry. Things were so optimistic in the late 90s/early 2000s, before the world went to shit.

Literally the only difference is fucked lighting, slightly more bugs, fewer textures, and adding all the 8 bit games. Why do people act like DX is some ungodly abomination on the level of sonic genesis when in reality it would just place immediately below the original on any tier list of quality?

DX had way more issues with the camera from what I remember, and clipping through geometry randomly while playing.

fag

there are mnore good than bad sonic games

It's the best song in the game, what?

Sonic never improved from SA1, only worsen after SA2. Even SA2 fucked up by pandering to gottagofest niggers instead of being pure momentum platformer that Sonic, Tails and Knuckles handled in SA1.

Mario perfected his formula, twice. With Galaxy/3D World and Sunshine/Odyssey. Mario learned from the flaws of 64, and made a better series for itself publicly. People like 64 for given the fans Odyssey in the future, meanwhile Sonic Adventure 1 only hindes on what Sonic "could" have been, while pumping out 06, Boom, Lost World and Forces.

In short, Sonic Team failed and Nintendo didn't. It's that simple. This shitpost misses the entire point why people look back on 64 better than SA1. It's not about what it introduced, it's about what it enabled. One made Mario a legend, the other killed its legacy.

If you want to see why futher and have time to kill (you're on Yea Forums, you already do that anyways, see this
youtube.com/watch?v=iifF0U0L2yA

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It fucking better for coming out 21 years later. Mario 64 still controls great for how old it is. Literally play any other 3d platformer from that era.

That happens once right after a checkpoint in the first level, and only if you're trying to move sideways or not at all in fucking straightaway with a speed booster.

The literal only thing SA1 hs over 64 is the music

>Literally play any other 3d platformer from that era.
Find a flaw.

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there are more good than bad sonic games and you're a fag

>comparing a 2018 game to one of the first 3d platformers of all time

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Weak bait, lad.
youtube.com/watch?v=YKtFsLyz6Zo
youtube.com/watch?v=GBPbJyxqHV0
youtube.com/watch?v=4Ruqn1Lnexs

>>have to move the camera manually in a 3D platformer
>Zoomers can't """play""" games without it handholding everything for themselves
YIKES

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I can understand that I guess.
My favorite is “What I’m Made of” or any of the songs from the casino levels. I also really like the music from Metropolis zone I think it’s called

Mario 64 and Sonic Adventure are both good games but it's undeniable that Mario 64, generally speaking anyway, does a far better job of hiding its jank-ass underpinnings than Sonic Adventure.

Banjo's strength is in its level design more than its controls.

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yawn

>autonomous camera is handholding
Yikes indeed.

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Whatever.

i like both

Sonic Heroes is a dumpster fire and I don't get people calling it some unsung hero of the franchise.

And don't even call me a boomer or a zoomer or whatever. Heroes was "the" game when I was 10. It's the only one I had as a kid outside of that collection of genesis games. I hated it then and I hate it even more now.

Oh leave him alone. You guys all have THAT one song that reminds you of better times.

Yeah, Casino Park Zone and Grand Metropolis Zone also have fantastic music. I love how Sonic Heroes had that late 90s/early-mid 2000s retro-future aesthetic. Lots of stuff around that time had the same aesthetic (My Life as a Teenage Robot, Teen Titans, Powerpuff Girls to a lesser extent).
I want to go back...

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shit taste tbqh

And there are more medicore Sonic games than both. Your fucking point? Stop moving goalposts faggot.

Name more good Sonic games than bad ones.

>autonomous
Do you not know what that word means?

Yes, but I don't cry like a bitch
I rant, but I don't cry, like a bitch.

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> /vr/

> mario 64
> clunky controls
> sonic adventure
> satisfying controls
I know you're trying really hard, minimal-background-comparison-guy, but come the fuck on.

If you find a way to go back take me with you bro. I think the GameCube era Sonic games are peak nostalgia for me.

Look, I try to bottle up my emotions and present an "edgy tough guy" persona. But I do have real feelings that come out every now and then.
In some ways, Sans is a really relatable character to me. He jokes around a lot and seems as if he doesn't give a shit about anything, but deep down inside, he's depressed and has all but lost hope.

FPBP
Sonic was never even relevant

>Sonic Adventure is complete as-

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If AHIT was a "full length game" it would unironically be better than SM64 in every way imaginable. Not quite Sunshine-tier, but close. Id say, as is, Hat is already leagues better than Odyssey which is leagues better than Yooka-Laylee which is about 100x better than the shit tier Galaxy games. Inb4 contrarians respond with shitty manufactured opinions.

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In sonic adventure for the sega dreamcast, I can tell with certainty how my character will move if I turn around. Also, there are occasional challenges which require me to jump and land with some precision. I can do this reliably because sonic adventure, a 3D platformer, understands the need for aerial drift in my controls.

While we're reminiscing about better times, I might as well plug this pic.
Note that I have since changed my mind about the "Before 2010" thing. I'd put the turning point around 2006, with a point of no return at 2010.

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There really aren't.

Personally, I don't like 2. It's first half is solid but once you get to Oil Ocean it's just a massive spike downwards in quality. Is 3D Blast mainline? I dunno either way that game sucks ass too. There isn't a single good mainline sonic title between Sonic Adventure and Sonic Unleashed unless you count Rush, and even those three are flawed (though I still love them.) Colors is mediocre but mediocre was a godsend at that time considering the absolute state of the franchise. Generations is only a third of a good game. Lost World kinda sucks but I appreciate that it was at least trying something different. Forces is the most boring, stale, "safe" sonic game I've ever seen and I don't respect it one bit. I'm glad it also happened to be just bad enough that people willing to look past its other flaws can't excuse the gameplay.

I love Sonic 1, 3, K, CD, Mania, Adventure, Unleashed, Rush as far as the mainline titles go, but even if you disagree with my opinion on some of the other titles (I know saying 2 and SA2 are bad isn't exactly popular) you can't deny that it's at best a 50/50 split. I'm not even getting into spinoffs. There's a few standouts like Sonic the Fighters and SART but then you have stuff like Sonic R (amazing soundtrack and visuals but goddamn it plays like shit) and don't even get me started on Labyrinth.

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I don’t know if you’re baiting or not but I unironically connect with Sans on a spiritual level. Damn you like Sonic Heroes and Undertale? Wish I was friends with you IRL bud

Although all of your post is correct barring one thing, how is AHiT not "full length"? If you meant pre DLC content, then I'd agree but with? Back then platformers took like a week to a month for me to beat, when I sucked at games. With 15 years of experience it would me like a week total time to beat AHiT with all the DLC added in.

SM64 is good
Sonic Adventure is good
Sonic Adventure 2 is good

Sunshine sucks cock, waterspray ruined perfectly good platforming with gimmicks, the best part of the game were the platforming caves.

People are more willing to forgive flawed first games if subsequent games improve the formula. Look at Crash Bandicoot and Uncharted.

But if a series starts out flawed and only gets worse, people are less likely to look at the first game kindly.

If you can't tell how Mario will move when he turns around in SM64, that's your problem. The gaming industry didn't telepathically commune and decide to push a conspiracy theory about how good Mario 64 was, it actually WAS that good for most people. As a matter of fact, the hyper-sensitive joystick and speed-happy movement of Sonic Adventure was more unreliable for the average consumer.

>Sunshinefag comes in with the absolutely abhorrent post
Like clockwork. Enjoy your platformer where the main gimmicks renders your platforming skills useless.

The controls are good. The camera is awful.

I never noticed a problem with SM64's camera or controls. They're a bit dated but still precise enough for you to do everything you need to do. Not sure how it's inconsistent either. And while you can skip a lot of the game using glitches, it's hard to run into those glitches if you're not actively trying to exploit them.

Nope, not baiting. I expected to get flamed hard for that post, but I made it anyway because that genuinely is how I feel.
Although I probably would have reworded the "edgy tough guy" part. I couldn't be further from a "tough guy". I'm just edgy.

this argument never made sense to me. the levels are designed with fludd in mind, and you can choose exactly how much to use FLUDD in. mario's movement options are certainly good enough to traverse the levels without FLUDD if you want

You like Deltarune? I wish we didn’t have to wait so long for the full release.

>good
sonic 1 2 3 &knuckle
sonic cd
sonic advanced 1 2
sonic rush, rush adventure
sonic mania
sonic adventure 1 2
sonic heroes
sonic unleashed
sonic and the black knight
sonic colors wii&3ds
sonic generations
sonic riders & zero gravity
sonic and sega all stars series
>mediocre at worst/massively overhated
most handhelds
most spinoffs
sonic forces
shadow the hedgehog
sonic 4
sonic lost world
>truly bad
06
boom
secret rings
sonic advanced 3
free riders
nah m8

-s

It looks like a good game so far. I hope the quality remains consistent, but considering who's making it, I have high hopes.
I'm not entirely sure what he's going for with it, but I assume it's supposed to be like the Majora's Mask to Undertale.

>People like 64 for given the fans Odyssey in the future, meanwhile Sonic Adventure 1 only hindes on what Sonic "could" have been, while pumping out 06, Boom, Lost World and Forces.

This is exactly right. It's not really fair, but SM64 and SA1 are largely remembered for the games they spawned later, rather than how good or bad they actually were.

Dunno about you, but I like to know whether I'm going to walk in a half circle or just turn around when in, say, LLL's volcano. And the only sonic games in which speed has ever made you lose control are shadow and wii version of unleashed. The only points where you could ever slip up meaningfully due to having too much speed in SA1 have no hazards at all.

>muh opinion as fact

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The fact that the levels are designed with Fludd in mind AND are beatable without using it means they're a non-issue if you use him.
Is that really an issue for you? Mario has always responded how I wanted him to when I played 64.

The first three and mania were good mate the rest were kinda under the average mark

We got a grieving Sega widow over here.

It was still a good platform game maybe not as good as ther other but still good mate

>mario 64
>clunky
nigger you what
i like SA but how fucking retarded do you have to be to call mario 64 clunky

Fuck I'm dumb. I'm thinking of DS. Still, I could say the same thing bout SA1, though...

>sonic 1 2 3 &knuckle
>sonic advanced 1
>sonic rush
>sonic mania
>sonic colors wii&3ds
>sonic generations
Agreed
>sonic cd
>sonic advanced 2
>sonic rush adventure
>sonic adventure 1 2
>sonic heroes
>sonic unleashed
>sonic and the black knight
Don't agree. CD was anti Sonic outside of best visuals for Sonic until Mania happened, Advance 2 is boostshit when the game was better with the classic physics, Rush Adventure is trash compared to Rush, Adventures was only good for its time, it's aged trash now, Heroes was trash, still is, Unleashed was half trash, don't deny it, Nigger Knight is fucking dogshit, so is Secret Rings. And Riders/Racing are NOT fucking platformers idiot.

The rest is true except for Advance 3.

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i disagree but that's my opinion and you are free to respectfully disagree

Sonic 1
Sonic CD
Sonic 2
Sonic 3+K
Sonic Advance
Sonic Generations
Sonic Mania

These are the indisputably good Sonic games. Everything else ranges from ymmv to "only a Sonic autist could enjoy this".

>Mario 64 is clunky
>SA only has "some minor bugs"
>half the others don't actually mean anything
(You)

that webm looks way worse than sm64 in terms of movement though

To bad the point was MAJORITY opinion, and what you said wasn't the majority. All 3D games sans SA1/2/Unleashed/Colors/Gens are all massively hated. With SA1/2/Unleashed getting the most mix reception gameplay/story wise and Colors/Gens story wise. Actually, Both case apply when it flects on the era; Adventurefags hate Boostshit era, while Boostfags hate glitch edge shonen Sonic era.

Sonic advance is so goddamned dull. I get the same level of fulfillment playing mario 1, and the only reason to touch it is because sonic's face is on the cover.

It's better than all 2D Sonic games after sans Adv3 and Mania, but that's why it's put as good. It's just modern Sonic 1, if you liked 1, you'd like Adv 1. If you consider it a "Sonic 4" then you'd be reasonable to be disappointed with it, but it is better than the "real" Sonic 4 so...

>camera is fucking garbage
>physics make Mario slide around on his stomach if he even looks at an inclined surface
>water level controls
Mario 64 is still very much playable, but people who act like it aged flawlessly are retarded fanboys.

many more bugs, fucked textures in multiple ways, fucked sounds, less consistent performance, inconsistent updated graphics

Banjo's moveset is clunky and the jumping feels off. The platforming is a joke and plays more like a Marioish Zelda than a platformer but is also devoid of any challenge. The fact that you can literally kill temporally or permanently most of the hazards kills a lot of the challenge and that's not even saying the constant health upgrades. Tooie did better by removing most of the platforming which was weak.

wow, that's wrong.

>following heard mentality and tribalism
that's on them pal

i don't know why people are saying this lately, is it just a new generation of retarded kids finding sonic threads for the first time?

It's what SEGA does, so...

It is.

>THE ACTUAL STATE OF ADVENTURE FAGS
Just a reminder that they made a third adventure game and it almost killed Sonic.

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well i'm not sega am i?

sonic world adventure got a lot of criticism but it didn't almost kill sonic

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Not him but even I agree that Heroes was the beginning of the end.

Not Adventure 1, not Adventure 2, not Shadow. Heroes.

>Sa2 is shit
Says the one who fall in love with a fucking plumber

This
Lets talk about some good shit instead of bad shit?

i disagree

Reminder that SEGA is Nintendo's bitch.

>Most handheld
>Most spinoff
>Shit
Sonic the fighter and Sonic Battle is a kino spinoff sonic, while Sonic R is shit at controls yes.

MEDIOCRE AT WORST i haven't played most of them so i didn't put them anywhere in particular

We need a new Sonic The Fighters. With how many Sonic character's there are they could go crazy with it.

If they add cream then that game is broken.

This. They can be a bit frustrating in a few select instances (with reasons varying from game to game), but they're far from a dealbreaker.

Cream will be banned from casual, online and tournament play.

>good
A lot of those are pretty mediocre, user.
>advance 2
>adventure 1
>adventure 2
>rush adventure
>heroes
>unleashed
>black knight (I mean, seriously)
All have issues that keep them from being objectively "good".

This picture is bait, but the one thing that hits me is the camera -- I don't remember SM64's camera causing me too much trouble, while I remember SA1's camera completely fucking me up.
There's also the fact that SM64's controls are pretty fluid and not clunky at all, but hey.
SA1's controls are a bit rough -- clunky isn't the right word, maybe just overly twitchy would be a better description.

nah m8

SA1's controls feel worse than they actually are due to the game's messy collision detection.

sonic unleashed > mario galaxy > mario sunshine > sonic heroes > sonic adventure > mario 64 > mario galaxy 2 > sonic adventure 2 > sonic generations > mario 3d land > sonic 06 > mario 3d world > sonic colors/lost world/forces all in the dookie pile

accept the redpill or perish...its your choice

>9/9/99
>midnight
>dad comes home with a dreamcast and sonic
>slap that bad boy in
>based dreamcast boot sound
>game starts
>DUN DUN
>THUNDER, RAIN, AND LIGHTNING
>my little 8 year old brain lights up
>CAN'T HOLD ON MUCH LONGER
>sonic and chaos look incredible
>stayed up all night with dad playing
>fell asleep on him during his turn
>we never finished the game together

he died 4 years later. i never completed our game, but i still have the save, the dreamcast, and the disc. now i'm sitting here with tears in my eyes, when i just wanted to write a fun green text.

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>Some minor bugs, only resulting in death if deliberately triggered
Bullshit, the bugs in Sonic Adventure are on par with Fallout 76 - unavoidable and you will always die.

>I don't remember SM64's camera causing me too much trouble
I played it recently. The camera is awful.

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>mario 64
>clunky controls
LMAO stopped reading there

I like both in principle, but Big the Cat has made me incapable of defending Sonic Team's flaws in SA.
They didn't just make the egregious mistake of putting him in there to pad, they had him pop up a bunch more down the line just to snub anyone for taking it too seriously.

They can think that, but I guarantee if they were in the same position, if they paid full price to see a high speed action movie or go on a roller coaster and a portion of it was needlessly padded just watching some fat idiot fish they'd also rightly complain. But because I was just some video game playing preteen, a Sonic fan, I should just take it? Fuck that and fuck them.

Cutting Big to just a cast wide mini-game like the Chao raising, i.e. you can go fishing with Sonic, Knuckles, etc, and gutting his scenes would have been time better spent polishing Gamma's gameplay. I have less ire towards Tails, but I also feel he really could have just been something similar to the Metal Sonic unlock, an alt play of Sonic's campaign minus the cutscenes. You'd still get to play as him, but it would have freed up more time if he didn't need a scenario. Amy in my ideal world would be a minigame as well, but I feel her playstyle if developed had potential to have opened up a proper stealth based one for Rouge in SA2 instead of just making Rouge imitate Knuckles. Which is puzzling since she could always just steal the M.E. from him after he remakes it, why bothered doing his work for him?

Anyway, SM64 is a very mechanically tight game, due to focusing on one character and little cutscenes, but is ultimately also very basic because of it and not as compelling on replay. But where it edges SA out for me in reception is how despite getting unintentionally monotonous, it scarce goes out its way to piss me off.

So the Mario bias is some disingenuous bullshit, but SA has some unapologetic bullshit.

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This
A fucking well-written opinion finally on this goddamn board.