Hoes mad hoes mad hoes mad

>banned in one tourney in a small scene in South Australia, of all places
>only people who care about this are the usual rabble rousers like Leffen who routinely shit on every Smash game that isn't Melee
Total non-issue here.

>not a single Hero made it to Super Smash Con top 64
>WAAAH HERO IS OP PLS BAN HIM

If Meta Knight and Bayo didn’t get banned then I don’t know why the fuck people are thinking Hero will be

Has any Smash major outright actually banned a character?

>Wolf
>spammable projectile that never stales, ridiculous frame data and kills at 60
>Lucina
>frame 1 everything and has a counter

Ridley. Nobody else has the balance of speed and hard-hitting power he does except maybe Bowser.

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Isn't this the same community of retards that wanted Joker banned simply because Leo was good with him? Lmao the competitive smash community is a fucking joke.

>except maybe Bowser.

Why did they give him such a good run speed?

No but they want him nerfed instead. I'll never understand why these people want characters nerfed the second that a player does well with them in a tournament.

No. Posters here are just trying to send casuals into a tizzy.

they wanted fucking ike nerfed of all characters

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>Wolf
His projectile is good but not impossible to deal with, shield or jump over it. His "ridiculous frame data" moves also don't kill until like 200%, so you're going to see him fishing for back airs or dash attacks most of the time. He also doesn't kill at 60 unless you walk into a charged up Smash attack like an idiot or he ledgetraps you with one.

>Lucina
Her moves come out fast but also take awhile to recover from, she's also juggling food and lacks a projectile. Also if you seriously think having a counter is cheap (besides Joker's legitimately infuriating one) then you unironically need to git gud, it's a move that punishes predictability

>We need to ban RNG it's uncompetitive
>No no no you see Game and Watch is different because uhhhh he doesn't have a sword

>Smashfags make rules preventing them from playing the most fun character
>i can still have fun him when playing with friends

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Melee getting canned from EVO

Based and redpilled.

You'll note that they only want characters who weren't from Melee nerfed, in order to preserve as much of their glory Melee days as humanly possible.

This.
>HEROES MAD

>HEROES MAD

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>All these posts declaring he's fun
Yeah winning easy and playing OP characters is fun. Doesn't rebute his unfair abilities.

>stage banned because it has a slope

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I'll never fucking understand this one. I get all of the other stages being banned for dumb autistic reasons, but this one just baffles me. It is a static stage element that you can always plan for.

Bruh stages are only allowed to be a disadvantage to heavies that struggle on wide, large areas with room to maneuver you can't disadvantage characters that use bread and butter combos that might be disrupted by a slope.

We are winning sorabros!

Melee was still at EVO. Granted, it was a side event that had a few hundred viewers watching Hungrybox and ChuDat run a train on a bunch of scrubs, but hey, it was something.

I fucking hate Twitter memes so much.
Twitter is legitimately worse than reddit.

Pac. Goofy item/hydrant/water interactions that can net you 70% combos. Near belmont level ledge trapping. Gimp potential.

>Implying the HOES MAD shitposting was unprovoked.
You bitches were crying before you even knew h had RNG moves.

I'm pretty split on the Hero ban situation, personally I don't find him very hard to fight, but the language barrier must be legitimately infuriating since most of his Down B counterplay involves knowing what his options are.

Banning a character from competitive play because of an outlier is silly.

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Fucking Kek

Actual good answer. Watching good Pacman players is so much fun as well.

Almost all of his moves start with a different letter, and the ones that don't have very clear differences. You don't need to be able to read English to tell what's on his list.

Melee was artificial "competitive" game as well, they made it that way by banning or ignoring most content in the game.

I don't agree. At the highest level of play you're guaranteed to have players of different nationalities competing and potentially losing sets because the intended counterplay to a move is now impossible.

>Hero
>in any way overpowered
His specials are strong and his regular moves are complete dog shit, and to top that off he can't use specials without trying to weave in his dogshit regular moves so he's easily gimped.
Just admit you're bad and try to improve yourself instead of crying for things you don't like to be removed you fucking SJW faggot

Hero is unironically low tier. The best competitive hope he has is some duck hunt tier autist.

It's true you know.
You can't tell me that landing a Thwack or crit doesnt feel damn good.

Okay but imagine you're playing a Japanese Hero in bracket, are you suddenly expected to know the different katakana for each possible move?

ssbwiki.com/Hero_(SSBU)#Attributes

Who should I believe, you or the experts?

>we want to be real fighting games!
>ban everything!
Meanwhile real fighting games only ban actual shit that has a major affect on performance like stages that cause frame drops or visually obscure elements of the game like Kanzuki Resort making it impossible to see Birdie's cans and banana.

>69
aaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy
see
You don't read for Kamikazee, you notice the ee at the end. You don't look for Snooze, you look for an Sn. Everyone is familiar with the roman alphabet, get over it.

>Smashfags calling each others casuals
>These "compfags" who are probably wifi warriors playing with ungodly delay
>Caked on top of Smash's already bad input delay
>These losers probably take GSP seriously in this inherently casual party game
>And they still can't adapt to one character
Not joking or being ironic, PLEASE have sex. Your behavior is actually worrying

The debate is still happening; the decision can be reversed at any time.

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Lotta setup for a forgettable meme, maybe you're the one that needs something better to do

>justice
If anything it proved the assholes right. Competitive Smash is a fucking joke now.

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Ultimate is a game inherently about just rosterfaggotry and huge cast.

>now

There's no point in asking for good characters if competitive fags are just gonna ban them all.

Comp fags would want the entire game to have just ~10 characters because they don't want to spend time to learn matchups against low tiers.

Why can't people just adjust?

The issue at hand has a lot more elements to it than just adjusting your playstyle against Hero.

Expand on that. Hero has horrible frame data in a game that is all about movement. How is he a problem big enough to be banned, especially when he hasn't been released for longer than 2 months?

Can't sock the rock, baby. Nobody else has such a confluence of orgasmic-to-land moves. Mega Upper, Hard Knuckle dunks, Air Shooter carry-offs, getting a read with Flame Blast, even just landing a charged-up Mega Buster feels great. A high skill character for giga-brain Action Gamers such as myself.

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Bounce.

People are trying to argue that RNG is inherently unhealthy to competitive smash while tiptoeing around several characters already having heavy RNG in parts of their kits.

Those characters have far less RNG than Hero and have also been around for 18 years now, everyone has adapted to them.

See , the langauge barrier issue literally prevents counterplay in certain scenarios.

Ew these are all the garbage megamen

>Those characters have far less RNG

Can you prove that Hero's RNG is more harmful to competition than theirs?

>gets grabbed and hit with good aerials
>wears off after a few seconds

>1/8 chance of double damage and knockback with each Smash attack
>a random Command Menu with two moves that can OHKO at 0%
>a move with that random Menu that confers random effects up to and including Super Mushroom and Starman
>all of that randomness completely trumps skill, as all you need to do is be lucky enough to pull out OHKOs and Magic Burst

Pac Man and Duck Hunt are fun to watch at high level play.

Have more fun playing ridly due to pirate rush and just being a giant fucking dragon.

All of that tied to slow as fuck telegraphed shit that comes out frame 19 minimum. Meanwhile

>Grab combos you into a judge 9 and has good frame data

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Reminder that Magic Burst can be interrupted and is only useful if Hero doesnt use any MP, and that Thwack and Whack are all easily avoidable in the same scenarios that a smash attack is avoidable while being far less consistent for killing.

Japanese can read the roman alphabet and they should be able to know the translated versions of the attacks. It's really not hard. Other than that it's not very common for people to go to Japan to compete and if they do they should be prepared. You just don't want to put a little work, it's silly.

>Japan is the only scene

>Despite Mexico and Europe being arguably stronger than America

Reminder that MP doesn‘t limit shit

This.

Palutena because she can do everything.

Combo, camp, edgeguard, warp cancelling, spike, counter and reflect. She's got it all.

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It does vs. decent players, anyone who isn't trash at the game will force Hero to use Zappie a lot in neutral to have any hope of accomplishing anything because his normals are so slow.

it all comes down to competitive fags not wanting to adapt to new characters as usual. every time a new dlc character comes out there is screeching for weeks about how broken they are and calls for ban. just this time they found a "legitimate" reason to actually do so

>You just don't want to put a little work, it's silly.

Learning a second language doesn't seem like something that should be required for counter play in a fighting game. Again, I'm not a competitve player and the ban will not affect me either way, but this issue is one thats been a major tenet of the discussion in that community and it has nothing to do with "adjustment".

Read the thread please

>1/8 chance of double damage and knockback with each Smash attack
Getting hit by a Smash attack in competitive play is rare as fuck. Hero's Smashes are also slow as fuck.

>a random Command Menu with two moves that can OHKO at 0%
Those moves can be blocked and reflected and have a minimal chance of OHKOing at 0%.

>a move with that random Menu that confers random effects up to and including Super Mushroom and Starman
The same move has a 30% chance of something bad happening to you, such as slowing you down or making you small. Plus it's rare as fuck for Hocus Pocus to appear in the menu in the first place.

>all of that randomness completely trumps skill, as all you need to do is be lucky enough to pull out OHKOs and Magic Burst
Magic Burst is shit unless you have more than 50% of your mana plus you can interrupt it.

You have no idea of what you're talking about. Just because the Hero has some RNG it doesn't make him broken, especially when there is not data to prove it. Just go play Fox vs Falco in Melee if you want a match that is pure skill.

Aren't the attacks named the same in all of the West?

>pisses off rosterfags and compfags
is there any character more based?

>pisses off rosterfags
He did? How?

>now

>muh anime swordsman

>literal who
>no one asked for him
>putting gohan in smash
>robin clone
>another anime swordsman

X and Geo aren't on there, though, and they are the only bad Mega Men.

>hoes mad hoes mad hoes mad
>hoes prove that they're mad by banning hero from their stinky day tournaments
sounds about right to me.

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Do Meleefags like Joker? When I see Leo play as him I get Melee vibes from the speed, combos, and precision he pulls off.

>literal who
Dragon Quest is the granddaddy of the JRPG genre. They may be "literally whos" in the West, but they generated as much hype in Japan as Banjo and Kazooie did here.

luigi, wario, king k rool, dedede, and dk
they are fun and expressive and have actual character besides "generic jrpg guy with sword who will fight to the end!!!" and i actually know what to expect when playing as them

Oldschool Melee fan.

Yes, I love Joker. He's basically melee shiek with more options.

What gets me is people who cry it should have been Crono instead or some shit. It's like shit, he basically is Crono.

If you went most of the day in air conditioning and not a lot of physical work, you can shower every other day no problem.

>ban slightly above average character
>most of the high tier characters shit on him
>same high tier characters are played a lot in tournament anyway
literally git gud
hes just a worse link with sword that sometimes gets lucky

>game has switch IN GAME for what content you don't and do want to use
>banning

>X
>bad

No

Duck hunt at high level play is very entertaining

>HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD
>gets banned, thus providing concrete evidence that hoes were in fact always and will always be mad
>HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD

All the ban did was make Smashfags seem more insecure and actually give the meme solid footing

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>Bans almost all stages in the game even though most of them are competitively legal with no hazards and offer different advantages and disadvantages
>Refuses to allow certain stages to be played with hazards on even though that would make them better
>Do nothing but circlejerk about a few e-celebs, do constant, insufferable, roster faggotry discussion and cry for nerfs to whatever is the character the 1st place player was using after every single tournament (even going so far as asking for nerfs before the game came out)
>Can't even handle a character with a strong, RNG based move, something that is common in many other fighting games
>Once again cry for a ban, but this time to an entire character that isn't even close to being dominant or meta defining
Just when I though the smash fanbase couldn't get any worse. You people are literal fucking children.

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GTAB

Oh I'm not saying Mega Man wins every matchup or that he's got great odds against Hero, I'm just saying he's more fun to play. Because he is.

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>wahhhh why must i fight my fate is so cruel
>ok time to murder all my friends again :)
>wahhh i hate fighting doctor light give me armors

Worst Mega Man by far

literal meme taste lmao.

>banned in one irrelevant region

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>stage banned because it has a walk off

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This is actually fine walkoffs promote playing like a total tool.

this

This board is every meme site put together.

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>something that is common in many other fighting games
Name five.
I like Hero, I'm just curious.

Guilty Gear has Zato and Faust
Injustice 1 and 2 have Harley and Wonder Woman respectively
Soul Calibur has Tira who randomly switches stances
Pokken has Croagunk who has random effects on many moves, as well as assists and even a support style that are entirely RNG based
Every Smash since Melee has had Peach, whose turnips are RNG based

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>all these babies complaining about Hero

Meanwhile, an actually stupid character..

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The majority of hero's down b move come in frame 6 (according to M2K).
Also
>Judgement can't be used in neutral like Kaboom
>Doesn't have a huge hitbox move (AKA Magic Burst) that last like 3 seconds, does 60% and kills as early as 40%
>G&W Side B doesn't really changes how he plays or gives him a clear advantage in the same way as Hero's moves.
Hero while not having "good frame" data, he has the tools to compensate for it.
>Side B has a huge hitbox and does 20%+ with his second charge
>Neutral B does 30+% and kills as early as 70%.
>Up B can be used to edgeguard and has a huge hitbox when fully charged.

all it does is prove once and for all that HOES MAD

Watch the next super major and I guarantee you less than 3 people will reach top 64 with hero. No hero mains in top 32 guaranteed.

All of those moves are tied to a mana system

This, people conveniently forget that he can't spam his spells all day for free like most of the rest of the cast which is why they're so strong to compensate

If you slap a Hero out of Magic Burst with a projectile or in the split second before it starts he instantly becomes more easily gimpable than fucking Little Mac and his atrocious frame data means you'll more than likely beat his buttons

all of those moves are tied to mana and a menu that comes out frame 14. They're 20 frames for execution minimum

>character from unknown japanese exclusive series gets forced into smash due to back channel deals

>immediately banned

/our-guy/ wouldn't be banned like Hero is.

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Confirmed retard

Who the fuck are you?

>implying this doesn't make me laugh harder
IMAGINE SHITTING YOUR SMASH DIAPERS OVER A JOKE MOVE

Attached: Kiryl Thwack.png (1280x720, 1.01M)

Cope.

youtu.be/KbEMU7sgkrQ

And? You get 10+ mana per hit on average, is not that hard to recover mana.
If you are a good hero, mana will never be a problem, and it really isn't a problem.

And why the fuck will hero "stay" put and let himself be hit by a projectile? Magic Burst should be used when the opponent is in the air, above or below, never in front, hero has other projectiles for that kind of stuff.

Doesn't matter, 20 frames are pretty good for situations that happens too often, like edgeguard, catching the opponent in the air and what not.0

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No seriously. Who are you?

Hero is banned is only by some literal whos in one tourney in austrilia

a mii costume

five rectangles

Sounds like you're the one who needs to cope.

Thanks for not being a fag, user.

>Smash bans every stage except for giant, flat ones with massive blast zones
>no one gets success with bigger/heavy characters
>"Why does Nintendo always make heavy characters so shit?!?!"

They are so fucking dumb I swear to fuck GOD DAMNIT OF COURSE DK AND BOWSER ARE GONNA LOOK BAD WHEN YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PICK PS2 AND THATS ABOUT FUCKING IT JESUS

They're right about showering.

Melee Yoshis with Melee Yoshis blastzones when? I want Ganon’s Fair to kill at 70 again

WarioWare when?

No. You will still smell like bo, take a shower everyday you disgusting thing.

>an user tells you to cope
>you tell him that it is in fact he who needs to cope

Based based BASED!!!

>>Refuses to allow certain stages to be played with hazards on even though that would make them better
because having to swap rulesets just to switch between hazards on/off (because they HAVE to be turned on/off when making a ruleset in Smash) means picking matches takes more time AND because it means there's a chance of a match being invalidated because someone didn't actually go to the correct ruleset
>>Can't even handle a character with a strong, RNG based move, something that is common in many other fighting games
>>Once again cry for a ban, but this time to an entire character that isn't even close to being dominant or meta defining
literally only south australia has banned Hero and they're a small scene

Now that I cannot promise

>all stages have a Battlefield form and an Omega form now, and they're all exactly the same shape and dimensions
>still ban all of them except for Battlefield, FD, and Smashville

>And why the fuck will hero "stay" put and let himself be hit by a projectile?
Because he's standing there opening a menu and hoping the enemy runs in to be hit by something.

DQ is the only RPG I've ever seen to do instant death skills right.

>Give it to the healer instead of the mage, aka someone for whom it's actually a worthwhile option because their alternatives are garbage.
>Low chance, but high enough to actually be worth it sometimes instead of being entirely useless.
>Scales up in likelihood as enemy takes damage.
>Enemies who use it against you are fairly rare and can be dealt with fast.
Also it's only a joke because in Famicom 4 Kiryl used it exclusively since it was his "best" move.

Helps that every single enemy in the game with only a few exceptions aren't immune to instant death. Also Thwack's chance is higher then people think. It's about 15% at it's base. Kathwack is even better, about 30% and it hits all enemies, not just the ones in a group. FF has various levels of success with instant death, but it does stupid shit, like making undead regenerate if hit by it. Which includes not only the spells, but also anything that can proc it. Or making resistance to it tied to magic defense and most things have enough to push instant death's chance into 1% and over half of the enemies in the game are immune to it as well

>1/8 chance of double damage and knockback with each Smash attack
Villager Uair and Dair have set a precedent for this sort of thing. Perhaps not to this extreme a degree, but it has existed in Smash before now.

>a random Command Menu with two moves that can OHKO at 0%
A. Whack and Thwack cannot appear on the menu at the same time

B. twitter.com/Meshima_/status/1163394775006892032

In ultimate, Judge can't give you the same number twice, so you basically have a 1/8 chance of getting a 9. Whack has an 8% chance of appearing, while Thwack has a 12% chance of appearing on any given Down B pull, so that's a 1/5 chance of getting one or the other, I believe. After getting it, it then needs to connect to calculate a chance to kill. From 0-20%, it has a 1% chance to kill, while I'm certain a 9 hammer is an all but guaranteed OHKO against everyone at 20%. If you assume the scenario where Hero is at 100 and his victim is at 80, that's a 50% chance for Whack/Thwack to OHKO. That, combined with the 1/5 chance of getting one or the other from the menu pull, works out to a 10% chance of getting an OHKO from Down B. Judge is literally a more reliable OHKO option than Whack/Thwack.

This doesn't touch on the fact that both Whack and Thwack can be reflected, which Judgement cannot.

>a move with that random Menu that confers random effects up to and including Super Mushroom and Starman

There are 31 possible outcomes for Hocus Pocus. 7 are negative, with one of those seven resulting in a lost stock. You have a 2/31 chance of being made giant or invincible, assuming odds for all the outcomes are equal.

>>all of that randomness completely trumps skill, as all you need to do is be lucky enough to pull out OHKOs

If a player is lucky enough to pull out reliable OHKOs with Hero, they'd do better with G&W.

>and Magic Burst
5% chance of getting it, consumes all mana, and can be beaten by any projectile that can cause Hero to flinch.

Wow, this is difficult. I can't even beat Normal mode, let alone hard mode.

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I seriously do not get how people are so scared of magic burst, almost every character can recover from the bottom of the blast zone just drop off the ledge and wait it out.

He's not OP, you're just shit

>o be a disadvantage to heavies
I fucking hate competitive cock suckers, heavies are already mid to low tier and now they ban Wario Ware and others just so they can be safer.
Competitive smash is a joke.

>Ha! We're trying to ban the Hero before he in any way was shown to be overpowered or problematic! That will show those people who said we were irrationally mad!

What the hell is RNG about Zato?

Smash is just full of jank. It's just plain not fun to fight a lot of the cast (not hero). They need to nerf recoveries for most of the cast.

Donkey Kong's cargo throw is the reason for this.

banned in some irrelevant part of the smash community? sure. hero wont be banned anywhere else, he sucks

>OP MAD OP MAD OP MAD OP MAD
>OP HOE OP HOE OP HOE
>HOE MAD HOE MAD HOE MAD

BF and Omega forms aren’t banned. Please don’t talk about shit you know nothing about.

Last time I checked they still used only those three stages.

I just had a hero take an entire stock at 40% midstage with his side b despite me hitting him with a charged smash attack. So the game is saying despite being able to predict his attack, despite reacting faster than him, I'm the one that gets punished. And not just punished with a good chunk of percentage, I lose an entire stock at 40% from the middle of the stage because of one mistake which wasn't even a mistake.

Mark my words his side b is getting nerfed, the only ample stategy is just to avoid it completely with a stage wide gap completely unlike any other "short range" attack in the game.

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You were wrong last time and you’re wrong now. BF and Omega stages were never banned in Ult besides ones that either have music issues or remove a z axis. The most popular stage since the game’s launch has been Pokémon Stadium 2.

>I just had a hero take an entire stock at 40% midstage with his side b despite me hitting him with a charged smash attack.
Yeah, because it has super armor. Not the first attack to do so.

>So the game is saying despite being able to predict his attack,
Clearly you didn't, since you got hit by it

>despite reacting faster than him,
Clearly you didn't, since you didn't hit him before the super armor started

>I'm the one that gets punished.
Yep, because you apparently don't know what super armor is.

>And not just punished with a good chunk of percentage, I lose an entire stock at 40% from the middle of the stage because of one mistake which wasn't even a mistake.
Except it was a mistake because you decided to jump in like an idiot and tried to contest a strong move that has a half second startup and costs 42 mana, and ended up dying for it. Do you also run into Falcon punches and cry about that?

>the only ample stategy is just to avoid it completely with a stage wide gap completely unlike any other "short range" attack in the game.
Or run up and shield, since it isn't safe on block. Or whiff punish, since Kazap has a lot of endlag.

I can see why shit gets nerfed and banned if you're representative of the level of skill that people cater towards.

Joker, like Cloud and Bayonetta in Smash 4 are hated because nobody likes it when you bring a gun to a swordfight. Even if that gun is an old musket, and takes forever to reload, it fucking sucks because all of that work you put into swordfighting goes out the window because the other guy decided not to bring a sword. On the other hand, very few people complain if you bring Nunchucks to a sword fight (Little Mac), because even though once again everything you learned went out the window, Nunchucks generally aren't going to be effective against a sword, so it's absolutely your fault if you lost.

This isn't unique to Smash. Whenever a character that plays the game completely different becomes good, it pisses people off. I mean, just look at when Techies were released in DOTA 2, or Mei being viable in Overwatch.

It's retarded to ban something on only the possibility of it being broken rather then the actual results. If in 6 months to one year hero is as prevalent as bayo was with people who would otherwise have no chance at getting good results getting them then maybe we have a problem. Other wise fuck off pussy faggots.

Since hero's RNG has just as much of a chance to fuck you over as much as it does to help you I doubt it'll ever amount to anything.

I don't mind fighting hero at all.
I do mind fags playing him hiding on the edge every round thinking they're so goddamn clever as the cursor hovers over snooze.

The mere fact his RNG even exists is why they're banning him.

My argument is that the punishment on hero's b's are ridiculously harsh, moreso than virtually any other character in the game. I was at 40% in a safe spot on stage, I assumed my smash would cancel his attack - it didn't, so now hero deserves an entire stock? It definitely could use a nerf, making one mistake does not equate to a full stock like that.

This is absolutely wrong. The reason shit like this needs to get banned is because the reward for RNG is too high. Simply put, tournaments are played for money. Having a character that can randomly become an ass ton stronger, but also be shitty as fuck is stupid, because anyone playing him will randomly beat people better than them, but don't actually have a chance of winning money. This isn't fair to the people who entered who actually are good enough to make money, and then get fucked over by some guy playing Russian Roulette.

This being such a big deal in the smash community just proves how infantile they are compared to the FGC. RNG is nothing new to fighting games.

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>My argument is that the punishment on hero's b's are ridiculously harsh
Heaven forbid that the character with slow moves has one that's really good.

>I was at 40% in a safe spot on stage
Pro tip, user. If you died from it, it wasn't a safe spot on stage, now was it? Unless you DI'd badly.

>I assumed my smash would cancel his attack
Oh, so you lacked matchup knowledge and didn't know how a move worked. Well, now you do, and now you'll know not to contest it with an attack.

>- it didn't, so now hero deserves an entire stock?
That's typically what happens when you lack matchup experience against a character and the other person is at least around your level. You tend to have a hard time.

>It definitely could use a nerf, making one mistake does not equate to a full stock like that.
This isn't one mistake. Its your demanding a nerf because you didn't have matchup knowledge of Hero and, in lieu of learning how to fight the character, you want said character to be dumbed down so that you don't have to think.

hold this 9

>The reason shit like this needs to get banned is because the reward for RNG is too high.
So G&W should be banned, right? 9 hammer is a better OHKO option than Thwack.

>because anyone playing him will randomly beat people better than them, but don't actually have a chance of winning money.
Has this actually happened, or are you theorycrafting?

>So G&W should be banned, right? 9 hammer is a better OHKO option than Thwack.
No, the fuck is wrong with you.
>Has this actually happened, or are you theorycrafting?
Imagine if it does happen, the entirety of the competitive Smash scene will be destroyed.

Most I have seen get caught when they have already committed to a move. Jumping and trying to pass over Hero before he even has opened menu and falling into it. One of the worst I saw was a Ness, who just so happened to be attacking Hero just as MB was use. The casting animation changed Hero's hurtbox just enough that the fair missed and Ness ate it. If it had been a Dair, Ness would have lived.

His RNG would be fine if it was done well, like Faust in Guilty Gear. When RNG is in a game, it should be between a bunch of weak tools that could be good in some situations, rather than how Hero does it, where you'll just randomly get a tool that's just busted as shit, or completely useless.

>Game and Watch
Fuck no, G&W hammer is hard as fuck to land, and if you don't get 7/8/9, you're fucked.

>Has this actually happened?
Yeah, it happens on a regular basis in Super Turbo, where if someone jumps on you (Dictator, Chun-Li, and Fei-Long especially), you have a random chance of being stunned and losing instantly. Zangief's jumping headbutt has a random chance of stunning you and making you lose instantly. O. Ryu has a 50/50 mixup where one of his options has a 50% chance of just being fucking unblockable. This happens all the fucking time in Super Turbo, but the only reason it's ok is because almost the entire roster can do it, and not just a single character.

Not that user but there are certain things one also has to take into account the ability to land Judge versus a Whack or a Thwack while playing the game outside of probability.
Whack is a slow moving projectile and Thwack is a massive hitbox which are much more easy to throw out and connect when compared with G&W's Judge, even with the throw setup since that relies on the G&W actually being able to grab the opponent who (if the player knew the match up) would likely attempt not to get grabbed.
Magic Burst is also happens to be a massive hitbox and if a Hero stands at ledge, characters with normally decent recoveries get blocked from grabbing ledge very easily. Of course, one still has to pull it up on the Command menu and have enough mana to take use of it but it can certainly be a free stock depending on the opponent's character.
Again, I'm not that user and I don't actually want Hero banned, but this information shouldn't be glossed over either.

Is this autism?

based user completely ignoring the point of my post. It's one thing to lack match up knowledge and get punished for it, it's a huge part of the game. But to get punished with an entire stock when you're not even above 50% in the middle of stage because of poor spacing, from a single attack? There are quite literally are no other moves in the game like that. The excuse is muh mana usage but fuck, you can literally skirt around the stage and make it back in no time.

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>if you edge-camp with this character it's a bad RNG thing!

Do you shit yourself and scream "BAN!" when other characters kill you at 50%?

Not really, because other characters usually have to put effort into connecting strings, during which I have multiple chances to get out of/counter. It requires skill from him to accomplish and it gives me a fair amount of chances to break out of and generally feels fair.

Whereas hero is
>lmao let me hit side b and get an entire stock because you spaced poorly

Such a scrubby character. I'm kind of glad though because he lets people who aren't that good compete at a higher level and feel like big boys for once.

So because you suck at playing against a new character you want him banned.

That's pretty much Yea Forums in a nutshell.

When did I say that? I'm just saying his side b will get nerfed, which it will. I think ideally they just make it like magic burst and you have to devote most of, if not all of your mana to pull it off.

Why should it be nerfed? You can shield it, you can dodge it, it has startup you can see happening.

But user, we have to dumb down the game so it's as available as possible to the lowest possible demographic. Haven't you seen user's "it's 2019 why do fighting games still have complicated inputs" threads?

How long will it take before someone tries to suspect Banjo in an act of spite?
The moment ZeRo opened his mouth about this is when this matter won't go quietly.

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I'm not going to keep saying it user, I've presented my case over and over and you haven't really convinced me. I think in a perfect world they keep the move and it's strength the same (maybe fix the hitbox the fact that it hits onto the ledge is so broken) but just have it use more mana and be more of a commitment on heros part in that respect. Use enough so he can't recover properly for a period, atm it's such a strong move that hardly incurs a punishment so it's never not something that will be thrown out multiple times a match. Just saying hur dur don't get hit kind of ignores the issue.

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Banjo's Wonderwing Side B is going to cause the same amount of retarded farting. Mark my words.

Pretty sure neutral-b will cause a ruckus since people will site it as too annoying and then come false Morrigan comparisons.

All I've seen from you is "I'm shit at fighting Hero so nerf him!", and multiple people have explained to you how the move works and how it can be countered and avoided. Speaking of counters, how many characters in the game have them? Just whip it out every time a Hero tries to Side B.

R.O.B.
Gyro combo

>based user completely ignoring the point of my post
The point of your post was to complain about a move that you did not have previous knowledge of how it worked and, having now the knowledge to work around said move, you still wish to see it nerfed because you feel it to be too strong.

>But to get punished with an entire stock when you're not even above 50% in the middle of stage because of poor spacing, from a single attack? There are quite literally are no other moves in the game like that.
9 Hammer, Warlock Punch, Flare blade.

>The excuse is muh mana usage
And the move being slow in general and not safe on shield

>you can literally skirt around the stage and make it back in no time.
Hero has to hit you or your shield in order to get back mana at any reasonable pace. Otherwise, he recovers 1 mana per second.

What I'm saying to you is instead of wishing for a character's strong options to be nerfed, try to find a way around said strong options first. This mentality of immediately wanting to nerf strong options on characters and then getting your wish is how you end up with bland games.

G&W has RNG that can result in an OHKO. Why should he get a pass and not Hero?

>Has this actually happened, or are you theorycrafting?
>Imagine if it does happen, the entirety of the competitive Smash scene will be destroyed.
Yes, because upsets never happen in Smash. Nope, never happen. Ever.

>Yeah, it happens on a regular basis in Super Turbo
What the fuck does this have to do with Smash?

If people can learn to play around dthrow to judgement, people can learn to recognize when a Hero is going for a yolo W/Thwack. And you'd think, with how good recoveries are in this game, that a character with a good edgeguard option would be a welcome sight.

I can't wait for a repeat of smash 4 evo 2018.

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Well I most definitely have to give out that title to Joker. Nothing matches the thrill of dash dancing as the GameCube controller makes its iconic clicks whilst holding out until Arsene appears. What a fulfilling competitive experience that I could only have because of this character who I love dearly.

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>*makes an explosion that covers over half the stage*
bUt GaMe AnD wAtCh HaS rNg

>All I've seen from you is "I'm shit at fighting Hero so nerf him!"

I've asked to be shown other equivalent moves that compare even slightly to heros side b and all I've gotten is falcon punch. Falcon punch has more wind up, less killing power, AND less range than heros side b. There is no comparison. Why is there a move that can punish an entire stock below 50 for making a bad roll? Or misjudging his super armor strength?

How many times are you going to post this webm of you and your friend screwing around as "evidence" that Hero is OP?

When are you going to have sex?

south australia has internet access?

>Currently, Hero is banned in South Australia in competitive play, with many different reasons supporting it. The concept of his down special, Command Selection, granting random spells contradicts the tournaments' purpose to show off the skills that a competitor is capable of. Additionally, some moves, such as Whack and Thwack (and to an extent, Metal Slash, but only when facing another Hero), have properties that can instant KO an opponent if they connect properly, with the chances increasing the higher the opponent's damage. One of the most controversial moves is Hocus Pocus, due to the fact that it can cause random effects, majority of which are negative, and some of which cause the same effects as some items (such as the Super Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, and Super Star), which also contradicts the effects of items being banned. Another issue that was brought up was the language. Since utilizing Command Selection requires being able to read the commands, it proves unfair that players who cannot read the language the game is set to cannot tell what spells are being utilized by Hero. This can be unfavorable to both the Hero player and their opponents if they can't read what is on screen, as the former may end up accidentally selecting a spell that they didn't want and will harm them in gameplay (such as Kamikazee), while the latter may not be able to read the spells the Hero player is using and can't prepare for what they are using. With all these reasons, the South Australia Smash Central banned Hero in Australia, though it is stated this could change with future updates. This ban may carry over to other regions or worldwide.

>Using projectiles against a Hero with Bounce up
Are Smashers lobotomized children? How are they this dumb?

Yeah, its pretty good. Just don't get hit out of it, otherwise you'll look dumb.

>Inconsistent character
>Ever being popular in competitive play
lmao

Just cut hero's mp to 50 from 100, solves everything

>roll the wrong way
>"heh thanks for the stock"

Real cool character, enjoy it while it lasts.

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Australia, more like faggot landia am i rite or am i right.

Oh wow, just like with every other character in the game. Better just ban playing Smash Bros at all.

Egoraptor isn't a singularity when it comes to his lack of vidya skills, that gene of his is a common one.

"Bro just react to 20 different available moves at once lmao"
"If you're losing just practice until your hands hurt instead of playing in a way that actually requires forethought"

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>he concept of his down special, Command Selection, granting random spells contradicts the tournaments' purpose to show off the skills that a competitor is capable of.
An argument based on the fact that Hero has RNG period. Ignores Peach, Luigi, G&W, and Villager

>Additionally, some moves, such as Whack and Thwack (and to an extent, Metal Slash, but only when facing another Hero), have properties that can instant KO an opponent if they connect properly, with the chances increasing the higher the opponent's damage.
An argument based on Hero having a potential OHKO. Ignores G&W 9 hammer.

>One of the most controversial moves is Hocus Pocus, due to the fact that it can cause random effects, majority of which are negative, and some of which cause the same effects as some items (such as the Super Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, and Super Star), which also contradicts the effects of items being banned.
I assume they mean items other than Turnips, Bob-ombs, Mr. Saturns, grenades, bonus fruit, and Bananas, right?
Also another argument basing itself on merely the character having the presence of RNG. Even acknowledges that its usually a bad idea to go for Hocus Pocus

>Another issue that was brought up was the language. Since utilizing Command Selection requires being able to read the commands, it proves unfair that players who cannot read the language the game is set to cannot tell what spells are being utilized by Hero. This can be unfavorable to both the Hero player and their opponents if they can't read what is on screen, as the former may end up accidentally selecting a spell that they didn't want and will harm them in gameplay (such as Kamikazee), while the latter may not be able to read the spells the Hero player is using and can't prepare for what they are using.
This is the only legitimate reason I've seen so far for banning Hero.

"Bro if I spam anime reaction images and word everything retardedly it means I win the argument checkmate atheists"

Nice counter argument

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>I assume they mean items other than Turnips, Bob-ombs, Mr. Saturns, grenades, bonus fruit, and Bananas, right?
It's okay for those characters to use items.
>This is the only legitimate reason I've seen so far for banning Hero.
The most retarded reason is the legitimate one?

>roll the wrong way
>"heh thanks for the stock"
Don't ever fight a Bowser, user. Or a Ganondorf. Or any heavy character, really.

Aw man, life must be hard when you have to think and figure out counterplay to an entirely new character. But why work your brain when you can bitch incessantly to get that new character banned? No thinking required!

You had no argument to begin with. Do I need to link you to the Smash Wiki's Hero page where they spell out all of Hero's weaknesses and disadvantages and conclude he's a mediocre character for the thousandth time?

I call hero bland and i get downvoted on Reddit for it, but fuck it I don;t care, he's such a boring genric anime swordie. Glad he's getting banned.

k then

I don’t play smash, but fuck off back to twatter or reddit with your normie meme dogshit

Do you even play other fighting games?
When a character is able to exploit this many viable options/coverage, there's a serious problem
But even so I don't Hero should be banned, I'm more annoyed with the fact that this could been avoided if smash players played their game like an actual fighting game instead of brute force and everything with memorization

I will be more specific then.

>roll the wrong way at 40% mid stage
>heh thanks for the stock

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>"So what if he can put you to sleep or can kill you instantly from across the stage with little investment, he has downsides in other things"

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How much more generic can you get when your name is just fucking “hero”

>"Y-you just w-wait... I-I'll be b-back eventually..."

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I literally can't, buuuuuut I have a lot of fun kiting/baiting people as duck hunt. So many people have NO FUCKING IDEA how to fight duck hunt lmao.

>dude he likes pulls those out all the time 100% sleeping everywhere and I get OHKO'd every single time he farts at me so broken much ban

As generic as any other character who you can put your own name in. Like Link.

>Oh yeah, make one mistake in a fighting game and half of your lifebar is gone from a character who isn’t even gimped. Ugh, you Smashfags have it easier and you still complain about what you got despite being the same people who praise Sakurai so highly.

I do, actually. Its probably why I'm not immediately calling for a nerf to the move.

My point still stands. Don't fight heavies, you'll probably suffer an aneurysm fighting them.

>Dude it's random so it's okay

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>still can't think up a comparable move

lmao keep using your crutch while it lasts

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If it's okay for Peach and G&W it's okay for him.

>So what if he can put you to sleep
God forbid he can put you to sleep. Why should characters have good moves?

>or can kill you instantly from across the stage with little investment
If you're getting hit by a Whack from full stage away(Thwack is big, but not that big), you
A. Deserve to get OHKO'd
B. Need to consult your doctor, as you may have suffered a stroke.

I have to agree with you on that one, no amount of nerfing will change what Hero was designed to do, so people just got to find a way to deal with it, whether it adapting or banning, anything's better than just complaining about it on Twitter

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final destination no items fox only

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Bowser's FSmash
Ganondorf's FSmash
King Dedede's FSmash
K. Rool's FSmash
Ridley's FSmash

I main Toon Link though, one of the more unspectacular fighters in the game who can’t even aerial out of shield.

>There's nothing wrong with the character having a Chain Grab
>There's nothing wrong with Brawl Meta Knights Shuttle Loop
>There's nothing wrong with Nikita
All of those are good moves, in fact, they're too fucking good because they can Band-Aid any situation that would usually require skill and sleep is just the same

>Still can't come up with a comparable move
Did you see ?
>9 Hammer, Warlock Punch, Flare blade.
Now go be salty at your inability to learn and adapt someplace else.

>implying these cover both sides
>implying these cover the air
>implying these don't have to be charged for literal seconds to match killing power

try harder

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We better ban Jiggs, then.

>implying these cover both sides
Your argument was "hurr me dodge wrong way me die ban nerf sucky fart". If you dodge the wrong way with them it's the same result.

That is nothing like Hero and you know it.

>implying these cover the air
>Saying this about Ganon fsmash
Ah, I see, you're shitposting. In which case, carry on.

>Having to approach for Sing that could leave you easily killed if missed is the same as firing Sleep as a projectile with little to no consequence
Please think before you post an argument

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You're complaining about sleep. Jiggs can put characters to sleep. What's the difference? No, really, quantify the difference to me. I want to hear what you think the difference is.

Right here bucko

A linear projectile with a small hitbox that can be blocked.and dodged. Woo.

>Ike Up Smash
>Ganon Up Smash
>Ridley Down Smash
>K.Rool Down Smash
>Incineroar Down Smash
>Literally anyone in the fucking game with an AoE Smash

But sure keep posting anime and making an ass of yourself it's pretty funny

First of all, a box is not that fucking small, but even if it was the fact that you can throw it out with little to no risk of being punished it having everything to gain if it hits is too damn much on character who already has so many options

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>banning a character before a major tournament to see if he'll really dominate or not
Add that to the "moments the comp smash community proved they are a joke" list.

Ah, good to see that you can make actual argument and not spout reductionist garbage. Now with that out of the way, its a slow moving projectile that can be easily shielded. That said, it is still a decent move.

More and more of these arguments against certain spells seem to be people upset that said spells are good. Were you secretly hoping that this character was shit?

>tfw Sakurai did this so he can relax even more while working on characters 4-5 since the community’s eyes are glued to DQ.

Is this still about the South Aussie shit?

Don't use that image when you're objectively wrong.

It's a slow-ass fucking projectile, just fucking jump it holy shit

You have to be lucky enough to get it first, and then you have to hit with it.

Mate, there's a difference between good and broken, Joker is perfectly viable character with nothing about him being too overpowered
Even if Sleep, Wack, Thwack, Hocus Pocus and the crits were removed, Hero would still be able to find a place in The Meta as a versatility character, but with all of those in his kit he's just fucking braindead

Of course, I feel threatened when new characters are better than my main.

Funny how the experts at Smash Wiki completely disagree with you.

>Imaginary rules that only apply to fags who want bragging rights for playing a game with half it's features because you lack the brain capacity to counter them in a "casual" setting.
Why is it Nintendo games have to have these retarded Metas that take all the fun out of the game because they kept loosing to people online?

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USING RANGED WHILE BOUNCE IS UP LMAO SMASH BABS

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Nobody can be 100% poised to jump at any possible time during the entire match in a game that's based entirely around movement and not get punished in some other way. I'm not saying Hero is as busted as Bayo or Meta Knight, but the options he has hard just but the options he has at his disposal create a character that has an insane advantage over the entire roster
>Smash Wiki
Unironically end your life

>REE HE SNIPED MY LANDING WITH A VAGUELY SHAPED HITBOX EVEN THOUGH SMASH’S UI IS COMPACT ENOUGH SO THAT NOTICE HIS MENU WITHOUT BEING FOCUSED ON A SUPER METER, ASSIST COOLDOWNS, AND WHATEVER THAT THING FROM UNDER WHAT’S ITS NAME HAS

That's professor minecraft

>has nothing so he just screams "kys"
The experts say he's mediocre while a casual shitter (you) whines that he's so OP.

>juggling food
her dair is pretty long and wide which makes her harder to juggle imo

Who /K.Rool/ here?

Just won a 24 man tourney at my work, never been so pumped

>The Smash Ecelebs told me he's not good!!
I'd rather be the biggest fucking casual in the entire history of Smash than be a faggot who can't form his own opinions

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"ecelebs" write the content on the wiki?
>hurr only my opinion matters you sheep!
Sorry that I believe the words of people who know what they;'re talking about over some pissy crybaby on Yea Forums.

I'm honestly more mad that you're using the Smash Wiki as the basis for your argument than anyone in this entire thread defending Hero
Hero may be the problem of the now, but people like you have and will always be the reason the smash community will never be seen as more than a joke

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Not him but the YouTubers seem more indicting to the Smash community than the wiki could be.
Every angle of obnoxious YouTuber is covered by them meanwhile the rest are (un)lucky to only have a couple loudmouths.

I agree that the YouTuber mentality represents the problems with the community as a whole, but the fact most people within the community are unwilling to actually do analysis of the game as instead search exclusively for opinions to copy/ find an argument that supports what they already think is the reason why

based fellow K.Roolchad

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Literally none of those RNG options were as strong as Hero. Get the fuck out of here.

>Faust can kill and take the round off a single lucky Golden Hammer
Play the games before you talk shit

He's banned where? In some gamemodes like in ranked?

The bigger moment was when he turned out to be trash in a actual fight
>HOES MAD LOLOLOL
>normals suck so much ass you can hit them while they're still in startup lag
>specials drain mp
>down b is literally !rtd with 75% of options sucking ass
>on top of that everything is easily blockable, with magic burst even allowing you to fuck over the hero by launching a projectile at him
>the only way they can cope is by spamming hoes mad

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In fucking Australia

Of course it's still a "ban" even though it doesn't affect half the fags in this thread (or anyone here at all considering none of these shits would ever go to a tourney where it matters anyway) so it's a bunch of "HOES MAD HOES MAD" and "YOUR CHARACTER GOT BANNED AHAHAHAHAH GIVE ME SALTY (You)s" posting as usual

EVO should take into consideration maturity of a community before giving them a slot.

Smashbabbies seem perpetually stuck in a 12 year old’s sleep over party

>Is there a bigger moment of justice in vidya?
All it did was prove that the hoes were indeed mad.

Basado y pildorarojado

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There's not a Smash attack in this game that covers all rolling options, all ledge options, jumping, airdodging, and have a windbox that sucks you into the move.
Also like the other user said, strong smash attacks still need to charge fully to get the same killing potential that Hero can toss out in 20 frames.

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so? thwack doesn't always come out and it doesn't always kill when it does

>can be reflected
>you literally see them bring up the menu, hover over Thwack, and select it and there's STILL slight startup
>has a way worse chance to not work at lower percents but everyone watching highlight reels has shifted perception of how often it works

>that Hero can toss out in 20 frames
IF he gets one of those options, people always forget about the bad part of a RNG character when it's convenient.

>In fucking Australia
SOUTH Australia. Which is the size of Texas but with 1/15th the population.

He's literally only banned because the people who actually play in the region don't want to bother with him

Neither of these are counter arguments to the point that / made. No other move can do this. And like I said, Thwack covers every ledge option, it doesn't matter if you saw it coming since the move is so fucking huge it'll cover whatever defensive option you could have done anyway.
clips.twitch.tv/PlayfulPlumpSoymilkSpicyBoy
For example, even when Lucina jumped she still got sucked in and hit.
twitter.com/PuppehSSB/status/1162683639282450433
Or here where the Inkling had to somehow react and pick the best option and died for it just for being in disadvantage at 60%. No other character punishes you this hard for being knocked offstage.

The worst thing about it is that with something like a Bowser Fsmash, the player is still risking something, you can punish a bad Smash attack, but if you try to challenge Thwack you're just running the risk of getting deleted, meaning Hero has an instakill option that is all reward and negative risk.
Every time Hero rolls a menu he's going to have either a good buffing spell like Oomph or Bounce, or a good attack like Kaboom or Sizzle. Hero's menu will always put Hero in advantage because you're forced to respect it since reacting to all of his options is actually impossible and the smart thing to do is just sit in shield or get as far away from him as you can so you don't get fucked over by something like pic related.

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You do realize he can't keep that menu open forever, right? Lucina could've just stuck to the ledge and forced an approach. With Inkling, there's a good full second after he opens that menu, reads Thwack, and uses it. It's literally people just playing against Hero like every other character and refusing to properly respect his options or acknowledge the possibility of X effect happening.

If fucking G&W side-b's other 8 options had more significant effects and you were forced to memorize them based on what the other effects could do there'd be people bitching about him too. Just fucking know the character, Jesus.

>You do realize he can't keep that menu open forever, right?
Okay?
> Lucina could've just stuck to the ledge and forced an approach.
She lost her intangibility, meaning Thwack would have hit her anyway which was why she jumped in the first place. Don't forget Thwack has a windbox that sucks you into it.
>With Inkling, there's a good full second after he opens that menu, reads Thwack, and uses it.
Inkling had maybe a half second to react and only a perfectly timed airdodge would have saved her, but go off I guess.
Also if you watch that clip. Hero also had Magic Burst. What the fuck was Inkling supposed to do, exactly? How was she going to get out of that situation?
The answer is nothing, Hero can trap you in unwinnable situations with no effort on his part, fun game design!
>>refusing to properly respect his options or acknowledge the possibility of X effect happening.
Yeah dude just sit in shield the entire fucking game because Hero can delete you at any percent from a huge range, sounds good.

>>If fucking G&W side-b's other 8 options had more significant effects and you were forced to memorize them based on what the other effects could do there'd be people bitching about him too.
Yeah no shit, people hate dying to random chance that takes no skill, what a fucking surprise! Even if Judge got super buffed so that half of G&W's numbers were 9's it would STILL not be half as bad as Hero since G&W needs to be point blank to land it while Hero is a threat from any part of the stage.

youve only proven that australia is a den of cowards and scrubs

>hero has thwack
>you jump of edge
>he picks uses it
>you hear the sound
>you dodge
How hard is this? You telling me smash players can't react to a sound?

The banning of Hero only makes the "HOES MAD" meme more truthful.

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>Hero has Thwack
>you jump off the ledge
>he sits there
>your ledge I frames wear off
>he can now Thwack you whenever
or
>you jump off the ledge and do a ledge regrab
>Hero cancels his menu and dsmashes your ledge regrab, it's a crit and you die at 30%
or
>you jump back when you see Hero has Thwack
>Hero also rolled Kaboom, which he selects instead
>Kaboom is way faster than Thwack (frame 5), sucks you in and does 30%
or
>Hero sees you retreating to the ledge
>happened to roll Psych Up
>now you're in the corner against a buffed up Hero who's forward air will kill you at the ledge

Hero's menu is zero fucking commitment, if he has a better option, there's nothing stopping him from using it, you're trying to defend Thwack by claiming you can move around it as if Hero doesn't have 3 other options at the exact same time that will also fuck your shit.

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This is Faust. He is a Guilty Gear character. He has a special that allows him to throw one of 17 items (16 really, not counting the literal joke item) and he does not have a resource for them, only being stopped by the item's individual recovery. He can convert into a kill or perform unblockables with half of them.

On top of that, he has a super that allows him to throw out 4 to 10 of these fucking things AT THE SAME TIME.

And on top of that, he has a three-way teleport that he can use to force you to play his guessing game because he can cancel it before or AFTER the teleport and read you trying to punish him while there are items out.

You know what GG players do? Do they ban Faust because he's "anti-competitive? Do they ban him because he has setups that can guarantee a round? No, they nut the fuck up, familiarize themselves with the matchup and the item list, and beat his ass. Hero is balanced around the fact that his spells are just as RNG as Faust's except there is significantly more breathing room to deal with them and he has a resource so he can't just spam them. Whenever you complain about Hero, you are saying that Smash players cannot adapt to something in a real fighting game and would break down like fucking children over having to fight this "bullshit" character.

Hero has:
>Slash spell: fucking move out of the way
>Straight line spell: jump
>Buff spell: either wait him out or punish him
>Useless situational shit like Kaclang/Metal Slash
>Kamikazee: so much start up you can just fucking run if you aren't mashing buttons
>Hocus Pocus, which can kill him just as easily
>Magic Burst, if it doesn't kill he's fucked
>Whack/Thwack

Memorize. Plan for the worst possible scenario instead of just assuming whatever YOLO shit you were doing was gonna work. I guarantee you can beat this character without getting hit by his instant-kill if you actually pay attention.

TL;DR because I know you don't wanna read: LEARN THE FUCKING MATCHUP

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>Hero's menu is zero fucking commitment
Looks like your reading skills are as bad as your player skills.
>>he uses it
>>you hear the sound
>>you dodge
How is that not a commitment? You can't cancel after you select a spell you dingus.

Going off this retard logic no one should be hit by anything since everything makes a sound in this game, you're literally just like the "just SDI!" retards defending Smash 4 Bayo.

If the Hero is good enough to react to all of those choices in the same instance that you have to while you're being watchful for the menu since you're at disadvantage, correctly assess the right choice to make AND do it flawlessly enough that it kills, then yeah he deserves to beat you

She could just sit on the ledge and use the neutral get up option when he hits the button, that's also how you counter kaboom.

Game & Watch

You're compering every other move to a move where the character completely stops moving and stands there until the player selects one of the spells, spells that you can see and you can also see the one that he has the cursor over.

If we're using hard frame data most of Hero's spells come out Frame 5, and it takes 2 frames to move your cursor, if you expected Hero to use Sizzle and went above him to avoid it, it would only take Hero 2 extra frames to select Flame Slash instead and hit you in the air for trying to punish him.

Attached: Flame Slash.gif (1410x844, 1.65M)

Name a spell that hits directly above Hero to the point where you can't just fucking double jump it and force him to get out of menu or get punished that isn't Kamikazee

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Flame Slash you fucking retard, it will hit you even if you're on a BF platform above him. Also Magic Burst.

Hero getting banned just proves that competitive Smash isn't a fighting game

>no reading comprehension
last time I checked Flame Slash doesn't have the hitbox of Palutena's u-smash but you clearly know better

Ryu is great fun and I love having a proper fighting game character in Smash. Hero looks fun as fuck though

based and correct

>gets banned
>turns Smash into a bigger joke of a comp game
HOES MAD

Nice goalpost moving but that doesn't cover magic burst.

I'm gonna meet you in the middle on this one and say that Magic Burst is probably the only spell of Hero's that needs a slight nerf. Make it start up slightly slower so you have time to kick him out of it if you don't have a projectile or make it slightly smaller at max size.

Otherwise he's fine, learn the character.

WFT.

>Plays completely different from the rest of the cast
>So much cool tech squeezed into a single character
>Pure conditioning and mindgames
>qt /fit/fu

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The casuals are the ones who feel the need to ban him.

The only problem with wack/thwack is being low commitment because at the correct spacing you're supposed to do them, even a player with their third eye open won't be able to punish such a brazen attempt on their life. The only way to punish them is to take a gamble and run through them, which at that point is just probability instead of an actual mindgame.
The fix:
>Keep kill probabilities the same
>Make the visual cue when picking both much more prominent
>Increase Wack startup to be the same as Thwack, no other changes. Keep it as a scary zoning tool when it's out if Hero is allowed to throw it out, the primary concern is to make it less viable up-close.
>Increase Thwack recovery to the point that if you roll, spot dodge, or air dodge it, you can punish with a smash attack, similar to a missed Rest. Not getting hit by a potential instant-kill should not put us back in neutral

for the rest of hero's whatever, crits can stay (learn to neutral bitch), but I would just slightly reduce natural MP regen because he can stay meter positive pretty easily with single hits even after a magic burst, unless some kindly user links me to a clip where a hero loses a stock after bursting.

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>Waaah the character is random and inconsistent plus he has OHKOs and can kill so stupidly easily, ban him!!

Oh you faggots would have an absolute field day with pic related

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I find it absolutely hilarious how smash is becomming more and more about watching the character's hud for special gimmicks rather than playing the game.

Pretty Overwatch Tier design here.

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Isn’t he only banned by a small scene in a small region in Australia where they have less than 40 members and their best player is a K.Rool main who hasn’t even competed in Majors?

Leffen is such a massive bitch, seriously.

He’s easy wins for me.

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I think he meant Zappa and Faust. Zappa has RNG.

I fucking love zappa.

They better add him to the new game

Banfags come off as giant pussies but they at least have visual and numerical figures to back up their arguments. Herofags have done a shit job countering these arguments.
>saying "no he's actually really bad, dude just trust me" with little to nothing to back it up
>spamming the same crusty LE EPIC HOES MAD XD nigger meme
>baseless "just git gud rofl"
>when everything else fails, copping out with WELL MUH PARTY GAME ANYWAY or just spamming the same outsider memes about competitive Smash

Yoshi in Melee. It's a better character and game engine.

>Thwack covers every ledge option
JUST DROP FROM THE LEDGE, IT BARELY HAS ANY DOWNWARD REACH

Literally anyone else.

Its fun to be rewarded for skill, not luck

>drop from ledge
>no invincibility now when you regrab and can't regrab again until your opponent can easily dtilt/smash it

th-thanks for the new ledge mechanics sakurai

Banfags don’t have anything, their arguments fall apart under the slightest scrutiny and then they deflect in circles, they really are just mad hoes.

Reminder that there are no good arguments in favour of a ban.

>muh RNG
Not enough to be the dominant deciding factor in the outcome of a match, therefor not enough to justify a ban.

>muh language
Tournament sets are played in the language which the TO's set the console to at the beginning of the tournament. You are not entitled to play a tournament set in any language you want. This is fair to all players.

>muh...
Oh wait right, those are the only two non-arguments.

Joker does need some nerds. MKleo is a talented player, but only on Joker. If he plays any other character he's a complete shitter. It's clear Joker has innate advantages over others.

>instakill chances and critical attacks aren't enough to change the favor of a match

Attached: 1564874680638.gif (320x240, 2.73M)

>hero uses, at most, 3 moves in quick succession
>fails most because they can be blocked or dodged
>he runs out of usable MP
>he now has to use his crappy normals

It's not hard, user.

The only ones making a big deal about this is that faggot Leffen and some literal who group in Australia.

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They do but not more than G&W/Peach. For perspective you have a higher chance of dying to judge twice in a row (assuming G&W reloads when you die) than you do of dying to thwack at 0.

Now remind me of the range and commitment that goes into landing a Judge versus a Thwack.

So the case for banning is that if hero gets lucky at the right time, with enough resources, he gains access to strong tools that are counterable by perfectly normal play. And if he doesn't he is a slightly below average character. It seems like the case for banning only considers worst case scenarios, when the character is designed around more often than not being out of luck. If we look at the full range or possibilities you have a character that may take a few lucky stocks, but physically cannot consistently replicate his actions. Which is incredibly important for tournament play, a few lucky stocks will not take you all the way through the brackets. If Hero had easily replicable instant kill set ups that he could do every stock with no worry then there would be a case.

It is why the original ban had to push the idea that RNG seemed unfair, appealing to the idea that you need to ban smash into being a competitive game. Which seems to be a chip on the community's shoulders, that you have to make smash what you want. I think if the whole argument about is smash competitive didn't exist, and the preferred rule set was enforced in game by default then Hero would have been accepted fine.

Villager
Bowling Balls off ledges, Stealing projectiles and getting the Tree to fuck people from below never ceases to be fun

Isabelle was a fucking mistake. Literally Antifun villager

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Captain Falcon
Feels great to move with
Absolutely runs around people
Decimates shieldfags
Overwhelms the fuck out of hefty projectilists
Is just a vicious rushdown
Controls the spacing simply by BEING the projectile

Hero is fun but hes not as deterministically FUN as Falcon. You know if you want to fuck someones day with Falcon you have all the tools to do it on the spot and you dictate the spacing in the matchup.

Attached: Image_116.png (179x233, 125K)

Good thing you can block abd reflect it, and it must be apparent on the rng menu so you know when he is going to try it.

The RNG on top of RNG of attacks and moves that can go through shield or even break them, the chance is extremely high.

On top of this is the language barrier issue, where you need to read his list of spells within a second of opening it, which is impossible if you don't know any other languages.
I've been to local tournaments where people will have setups that are in Spanish or French, which wouldn't harm gameplay but for Hero that is huge, and him being a top pick character of course many players would pick him up (to learn the Match-up or figure him out) and in some cases multiple languages could be on the same setup.

I don't even play completive Smash although I go to local fighting game events, it made sense to me to ban a complete dice roll character even if he has "bad frame data", the moves can break shields and instantly KO.

>I don't even play completive Smash
Clearly.

I like this guy

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Nothing in smash is more satisfying than putting a stickie on a platform and b-throwing somebody on it, so Snake

Every character can do a variant of that exact string into some strong attack.
Ultimate is a joke.
You are an idiot.

Of course not. Why would they ban Mii sword fighter?

>what is charizard

>get it by ridley side b at 30%
>lose stock

Bowser's like a freight train. Once he gets going, he runs faster than Mario, in the main series anyway.

One is guaranteed out of a throw, one has a full second of startup+end lag minimum.

u sound like such a faggot lmao

>Banned in South Australia

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>You are not entitled to play a tournament set in any language you want. This is fair to all players

This doesn't address the problem whatsoever, nor is it fair whatsoever when the language barrier makes accurate counterplay of Down B possible for international players.

Would western cucks have the balls to ban Banjo if he was OP?

Leo played Ike before Joker came out, and he did pretty good.

Even if I don't think he should be banned, I literally never want to see him in top 32 at any major.

Once the spectacle surrounding Hero wears off, people are gonna see how boring he is to watch.

I can hear the commentators trying their best to make Hero sound like he made a 10 billion IQ play every 3 seconds already.

>"oh man random crit! He died at 30%, whoaaa! Poor [Opponent]... "
>"Hero cycled 2 times to get that magic burst at the ledge! What a crazy play!"
>"He got Zoom! What an amazing recovery!"

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>Regurgitating weak twitter arguments AND he doesn't even play the game
So this is the power of anti-herofags

Because smash is designed to both competitive and uncompetitive. Street Fighter isn’t, it has no party mode, no random shit happening on stages, no items. Other competitive games like Counter Strike also have specific stagelists and rulesets . It really only takes about 90 IQ to understand this concept.

If Banjo had the same moveset Hero does nobody would care about this.

The only things that should be nerfed about hero are his fully charged neutral b, his side b and magic burst.
Allow me to explain:
Neutral b is a chargeable projectile just like charge shot and shadow ball, except it takes less time to charge, kills way earlier, is bigger, does 40% compared to the usual 30% and even leaves a little trail of fire behind it, also it automatically stores when fully charged just like charge shot instead of needing to do a commitment like aura sphere and shadow ball
Either nerf it or buff the other charge shots to be similar to it
Side b only needs a damage reduction on the first two charges and a knockback reduction on the fully charged one, it doesn't make sense for it to kill superheavies at 40% on the opposite side of the stage, the only other move that can do that is reverse warlock punch and it takes double the time to come out
Magic burst gimps need a serious nerf in either probability of it appearing or knockback, literally more than half the cast can't do anything about getting gimped by magic burst

If you nerf kafrizzle to be like other charge shots then make it have infinite ammo like other charge shots.

Oh, you don’t want that? Fuck off then.

They do that with every character and it sucks.

Wow ultfags really are dumb as rocks arent they?

>banned in one obscure part of the world
>mad hoes continue to be mad

XD

couldn't possibly be because his nair is broken as fuck and combos into literally everything and kills at like 80%, nope

The victim complex of Herofags is fucking astonishing.

>victim complex
>comp scene is grasping at straws like fucking language to ban him

Also make it not explode when it touches any projectile.

>banned in fucking southern Australia of all places, where there's like 50 players total
>"HAHA GUYS HERO GOT BANNED HAHA JUSTICE JUSTICE!!!"

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>tfw we'll never see the blazin Castlevania stage in EVO
>or Omega/BF Boxing Ring, which is almost perfect for finals with the big screen display of the fighters in the background

Why the fuck is FD boxing ring banned

>Enrique comes to the US for the 2 million dollar smash ultimate tournament so he can get his family into the US
>He loses to thwack in the grand finals because he can’t read English
>a week later his family is found killed by the gestapo

Ban Hero.

that's his fault

>Enrique didn't know what the letter T looked like.
>entered a tourney with 2M first place but no second place payout.
Enrique deserved it.

I think all FD/BF variants are banned because of being too similar to Final Destination and Battlefield. I think it would be like a way to get around stage strikes or something.

That's extremely stupid.

Sounds more exciting than Joker's bullshit comeback mechanic.

I prefer Isabelle, but you have a point. She was designed to torture other players, not to a super fun time.

>H-H-HERO IS ONLY PERSECUTED BECAUSE MUH JAPANESE SWORDSMAN!!!! IT'S ALL AN ANTI-WEEB CONSPIRACY! BUT MUH BANJO!!!!

Pick up a real fighting game

Who banned him from what form of comp at which event and why should any of us give a shit?

>Everyone is one poster
It's not a persecution complex to point out how much Hero makes the scene seethe.

>go see the banlist for stages
>every stage in Smash 64 aside from Kirby's is banned

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And yet every Smash scene is lumped into one irrelevant Australian scene.

>taking online seriously
>competitive smash

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>Banning a character
Lmao smashbabbies. Get fucking good.

>game has character select IN GAME for choosing what character to play
>banning

64 was a really broken game, it makes sense.

It has the most hitstun of any smash title, and you can't even wall/ceiling tech. I still had a lot of fun with the game though, don't get me wrong.

Maybe someone can answer a question for me. How come when I am fighting people online in elite mode they have their name and then #randomnumber (ex. #0989) in their tag? It's been popping up a lot more frequently as of late.

So are games like X-Men vs Street Fighter and Marvel vs Capcom 2 and they let shit go wild instead of banning everying.

So when are the Ice Climbers going to be banned?

i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/542/287/d65.gif

Yeah, but stages in those games are all equal. They're all flat.

I'm not sure about Xmen vs SF, but MvC2 and 64 aren't really comparable. In MvC2, every character had an infinite. There were like four meta characters (Magneto, Sentinel, Storm, Psylocke) but even others outside of that were still played.

The reason stage bans in Smash are so important for competitive play is to prevent camping or early stock loss from stage hazards like the barrel on kongo jungle.

ban ivysaur for killing someone at 86% (on attack) with an up+b.

He's also b& in Korea, but it's not like Smash is a big thing in Worst Korea anyway, WKor has like 70ish participants in the pools anyway

>Yeah, but stages in those games are all equal. They're all flat.
New York stage in XvsSF has breakable ground and police vans that can be used to extend combos

That actually sounds super fun. Don't get me wrong, I love playing on some wacky stage like Delfino and regular Wily Castle.

It can be frustrating for tournament players to lose an early stock to a stage transformation, bumper or other hazard.

I'm actually still baffled as to how pokemon stadium 1 is still legal in Melee.

Items haven't been fun in Smash since Brawl, they used to all give slight advantages or rarely allowed a kill, if timed or aimed properly like with the bat or Bob-Omb
Now they're all just screen nuke instakill garbage.

>looks like green hair Yamcha
>voiced by jpn Trunks
>slime earring
the most based hero

I 100% agree. Items were fun in 64/melee, but they haven't been fun since.

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Phoenix Wright, Faust, Tira, Teddie, and pic related.

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>Favorite Item in Smash history is the Bumper
>Removed for 17 years
>Finally brought back
>Its useless because the stages all range from 4x to 12x as big as they were in Smash 64

Everyone who supports or plays Hero should have sex.

Thank God Big Leff is carrying on a righteous crusade against Hero. He's the equivalent of playing with items on and he has no place in competitive smash.

Isn't he the one from 4? 4 is the only DQ game I played, but I don't remember him. I hate his stupid fucking fish hat.

They're fine in Ultimate, you just gotta sort out the garbage.
Whoever thought pic related was okay needs to be beaten up

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Lack of viable legal stages can result in some janky legal stages.
Halberd was legal in Brawl for a long ass time.

The language barrier issue is the only legitimate problem I see, and it's so big it will probably be patched by adding icons. If it isn't, then tournaments will probably list the language ahead of time of entrants can prepare and learn Hero's spells in that language.

>smash is a fighting game
>but you need to ban items, only have 1 stage, and ban characters as well
I laugh my ass off hard when man children take smash seriously. It’s like adults getting into a children’s pools.

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Woomy is the only other fun character I have left and I suck with her. I rarely used his slot machine and Hero is still by far one of the most fun characters I've ever played in a game. I mean I'm good with Wolf but the fights leave me feeling bored most of the time.

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>regular hammer doesn't do the loud as fuck "you're so dead now" sound anymore
What were they thinking. Hammer used to be my favourite item in the game just for that.

>Brawl
Most assist trophies are fun/jokes like Resetti and Nintendog the ones that DO do damage are either easily avoidable, like the Sim City guy and Excitebiker, or don't kill until well past 100%, like Kat & Ana and Andross. The ones that do kill early, like Lyn and Little Mac are usually rare.
>4 and Ultimate
EVERYONE KILLS AT 50% AND TAKES UP THE ENTIRE SCREEN. REMOVE THE FUN ONES LIKE EXCITEBIKE, LAKITU, AND RESETTI.
I'm still mad. They did my nigga Resetti dirty in Smash AND in his own series.

I have sex all day now that I play Hero.

Yes, but the news about that spread everywhere, because internet, and now people assume it's important.

If they were then we'd be seeing Hero's topping majors, yet Smashcon had none. Objective evidence shows that no it is not a deciding factor in matches.

>This doesn't address the problem whatsoever
It does, because it shows that there is no problem.

>nor is it fair whatsoever when the language barrier makes accurate counterplay of Down B possible for international players
It's completely absolutely fair. The ruling applies the same to everyone across the board regardless of language.

FGCucks seething @ games with enough content to actually allow more than one way of playing

>tournaments will probably list the language ahead of time of entrants can prepare and learn Hero's spells in that language.

Skilled and competitive-pilled

>He sucks even when playing overtuned characters
Looooooooooool

King Dedede & Piranha Plant, for how much they can press their Advantage in ledgetrapping situation and become really good if you're in your opponent's head.
Characters like Meta Knight, Falcon or the Space Animals with explosive potential and a high amount of mixups for ones willing to research. Their volatile nature only makes pulling off a great combo even more satisfying.
Duck Hunt, for his ability to control the pace of the game greatly and just his Can itself being a joy to toy with and enabling many baits, snipes and things of the kind.
I could go on but I like these characters in particular, I could also talk about power trip characters like Doc, Ganon & Bowser that are so meaty they're just so fun. Hero's normals are kind of just meh and the fun of the slot machine or getting what you're looking for wore off pretty quickly to me. It doesn't feel as good as getting good with many characters and when it comes down to it, Hero is a swordfighter & zoner with middling mobility, not the most thrilling archetype to me.

>It does, because it shows that there is no problem.

Ignoring the problem =! solving the problem. You're so desperate to defend Hero that you won't even accept a legitimate issue with his viability.

>It's completely absolutely fair. The ruling applies the same to everyone across the board regardless of language.
Again, you're not addressing the actual problem here.

Yeah the balance kind of went off. Things like Tiki are unreasonably strong.

I can stomp people with Wolf but for some reason I can't get a hang of Woomers. I have no idea why people rank her so highly. I've never once been threatened by one either.

There is no problem. The ruling is simple, tournament sets will be played in the language that the TO's have set the console to. This clears up any discrepancies in language disputes or attempts to change the language. It is also fair to all competitors across the board. Please describe to me how this does not immediately eliminate the imagined issue of "b-b-b-b-b-but what language do we play in in tournament??!?!?!!?"

It's a clearcut ruling that is absolutely fair and equal to all players.

I can't really take it seriously as a fighter either but this still seems like a shit metric to qualify it as one
Even classics that people love like HFTF ban characters and do things like limit combo repetitions while still being fighters

>There is no problem
You have brain damage.

Actually it's a fighting game regardless of those things. What tournaments decide they want to use for their format is pretty irrelevant.

Salem did, based retard.

>doesn't describe to me how this does not immediately eliminate the imagined issue of "b-b-b-b-b-but what language do we play in in tournament??!?!?!!?"

I accept your concession.

Those have got to be two of the most boring characters in the game

Salem is a top 50 player though. We didn't see any no name chump luck his way into top 64 using hero.

Is it a game?
Does it have fighting?
Then it is a fighting game. It is really that simple.

t. 200k GSP shitter

Incineroar
Mr. Game and Watch
Hero
Ken

Discord trannies.

Luigi and Jigglypuff can do that, just not on anyone above 100 weight. ROB can get 0-death kill confirms off stage from the middle of the stage even if you jump, roll, or shield. Game and Watch has 9. Ganon and Bowsers full charged smash attacks can kill at that percent center stage too

Sounds like getting f-smashed by Ganon.

Yep, brain damage.

Fair point. I love Halberd, but yeah it's super broke. Is Lylat Cruise still legal? I know the ledges and tilting caused a lot of issues.

Since LAST YEAR you fuckers paraded Erdrick and Steve around as mascots to act smug and look down at people who wanted their favorites in, "TOO BAD! YOU GET DRAGON QUEST! HOES MAD! HOES MAD! HOES MAD!"

And now Steve has been cucked into oblivion and Hero has become the most reviled thing in the Smash community and people wish he never got into the game

The complete 180 this took has been infinitely entertaining

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Lylat Cruise is limbo. Hazards off, it doesn't tilt as much. The only reason it's banned is because the whole stage is too small and the borders are not Kalos-size, which gives characters with poor recovery a more fighting chance (I'm not sure why this is supposed to be a bad thing either)

I'm totally gonna start playing it more in locals then, thanks mate.

Lylat is legal now because it doesn’t tilt and the edges aren’t broken.

If the RNG of the character isn't enough to make a difference competitively (this is proven by the lack of Hero results) then why have a competitive ban?

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Stinkling has:
Braindead legless aeriels including a bair that's disjointed, fast and combos into other things. Fair also remains active
The best recovery in the game bar none and it even has a hitbox on startup and at the end allowing Stinkling to fuck over recoveries and edgeguard attempts
A fucking jab that does massive damage while also giving debuffs
A braindead killconfirm with it's roller
A versatile projectile with its splatbomb
Splattershot can stop momentum and blow up Snake grenades
A dash dance that low profiles and is confusing visual vomit

Stinkling has a lot of things going for it and it's rightfully called out on it. Some Chads like big leff and tweek recognize that the character is broken.

He's banned by one local of like 40 people in Australia where K. Rool is what their top player plays.

You retard the same people crying about DQ before it got in are the ones crying now.

But Inkling has also never won a major tourney. Or anything really that impressive. They always get stomped by other high tier characters.

>Hero has become the most reviled thing in the Smash community and people wish he never got into the game
Nope.

She's so much fucking fun bros

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Try reading the posts in this thread that have nothing to do with RNG? Virtually no one has addressed the language barrier issue.

>Virtually no one has addressed the language barrier issue.
> nothing to do with RNG
RNG and language are the only two things that people are arguing for the ban based on.

Hero is never getting banned. Ever. Cope, cuck.

>Bro just shield against Hero
mobile.twitter.com/TSM_Leffen/status/1163854729522425862

>He's the equivalent of playing with items on
If you ignore Peach pulling out Beam Swords and Bob-Ombs, but you cocksuckers worship her.

>screaming lol
cringe

So World of Warcraft is also a fighting game.

Guess this means Shulk needs to be banned because he can buff his damage at will.

So, let's see, the dude saw hero getting phyche up, a buff that we all know makes one attack super strong and the fist thing he does is rush hero? The more i see people complaining about hero the more i understand why smash players can't play other fighting games.

Hero is getting banned faggots

>Brain damage

Oh please, ban him, please, i wanna laugh at smash players for the rest of my life.

>Hero

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Nope. Cope.

The only people reviling the hero are sorafags like you. Most people love the hero.

The proper order of FUN in smash is as follows:
pure zoners

Personally I find Inkling to be the character I have most fun using. But lately I've been getting a bit frustrated. First because in bracket I had my opponents living for a good chunk. I was fighting a chrom in bracket and he was last stock and sitting at about 160%. Anyways I couldn't land an edgeguard nor.bury him and he killed me when he landed a bair at like 100%. And this happened when I was playing in an arena like two days ago. I went up against a Ryu who lived to 220% in the first two stocks.

Character is good and fun but can also be frustrating to play.

>(Snake's arsene,

so mad at two different characters you merge them into one

3 of the most stale fighters. Also
>no egregiously cheap shit
You must be fooling yourself

Go ahead and prove how shitty you are at a party game, stinky.

>Snake's Stand is Metal Gear

Only if you're a fat fuck or have odor gland issues. But smash players should absolutely shower daily.

Ridley and K. Rool are fun as fuck

Don’t be fooled by the silhouettes, they aren’t the same or similar

Typical reddit opinion. Just stop posting and never come back.

That the FGC will laugh at you smelly Smashniggers some more over this.

>RNG decides how smoothly the first few seconds go.
>High damage under specific conditions.
>One of the highest damaging moves in the game.
>One of the most ranged attacks in the game.
>Dirty unblockable.
>Balanced by struggling against hyper offense.
>Is low tier.
What did they mean by this?

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Marvel had fighting game players, smash has smash players.

is not comparable, other characters are simply better. in the case of Smash, hero's moves are godlike and they work in a lot of situations.

The moment Smashfags got their rosterfag choices and started to become the thing that they used to mock ( competitivefags ) is when they became much fucking worse.

>snake's arsene
IMAGINE THE UP TILT

and you sound like you lose to jokers lmao

>Smash Ultimate
>enough content
That's a funny joke if I herd one.

>hero's moves are godlike and they work in a lot of situations
Funny how the experts say otherwise while you babies keep crying this same nonsense.

Wait, was Meta Knight actually never banned in a major back in Brawl?

What experts say otherwise? Because Dabuz legitimately thnk Hero is top tier. Meanwhile no top 50 player whatsoever thinks Hero is lower than high mid tier. Less seething, more coping, shitter.

*thinks

What part of "Everyone is here" confuses you?

No. One committee chose to ban him and a consensus was never reached. Pros boycotted any tournaments that chose to enforce a ban. The longest debate over ban or no-ban lasted six whole months and this was fairly late into Brawl's lifespan. That being 2011. It ended with the committee disbanding and telling everyone to do what they want i.e., Meta Knight won.

>Day of Release
>so many autists are saying "Who you gonna dab on Hero with gaiz?"
>merely a few days later
>"Please ban him from competitive play I can't beat him!!11!111"
Literal children.

The people who run Smash Wiki, for one, who've placed him at mid to low tier because of his horrible frame data, slow attacks, tall hitbox and fast falling speed, and the randomness of his abilities.

>Character with a ridiculous comeback mechanic that punishes the other player for doing good
>Majority of the community dislikes this mechanic
>The Smash equivalent (Joker) is defended to hell and back by saying MKLeo is the only one doing good with him while ignoring how shitty the comeback mechanic is in the first place, irrelevant of if he's "OP" or not

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>Oops, did you just pick a low tier? Well tough luck because you lack half of the games' features now.

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Do you think top players don't know what his frame data is? Do you seriously trust a bunch of fags who probably don't even go to locals over people who literally play this game for a living? Holy shit you have to be baiting.

FACT: If you don't like RNG, then you don't like dubs or predicting digits, which means you do not belong on my board!

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Of course we'll likely never know just how amazingly oogieboogie fartabonker Hero is in the ultra-high tournaments of ultimate stinkiness because of all the whiny pissbabies banning him before any kind of actual tourney data can be gathered and assessed.

no one has ever said this you are fucking retarded

I can virtually guarantee you the Hero defense force don't play competitively and have zero grasp on anything having to do with tournament play.

People defend G&W and Peach's randomness while screaming their asses off over Hero.

Maybe you people should try doing a tournament with him and actually see how he'd be before you preemptively ban him because "ME NO LIKE RANDOM ME NO LIKE CHANGE ME SCARED!".

But they have, based retard.