Special move inputs are made to balance the moves power, if you could do a Shoryuken in SFV at the touch of a button...

Without the execution and reaction barrier, fighting games aren't fighting games.

Can people really not do shoryukens and pretzel motions? God damn. It just takes an hour's worth of practice. Practice doing a cmk into a hadouken, if you can do it 100 straight times without getting an uppercut you are set.

It's a pretzel motion, for the raging storm, one of geeses ults

I remember when everyone used to shit on arcana heart inputs.

I want go back.

Attached: 1496910888255.jpg (1500x1500, 1.49M)

that's true, if you could do a shoryuken on demand from blocking it would be totally broken.

I just tried to learn with my new stick today on SFIV and honestly, the input in a vacuum is perfectly fine, easily replicatable
Especially since as pointed out there's tricks where you can do something else easier and the machine works it out as that, making doing it on landing easier.
What fucks me up more and I guess most beginners in SF is just how odd the timing is on connecting moves together into a combo. For example the trial I was stuck on:
j.HK > HP > Shoryuken > (Super) Hadoken
I could reliably get the first half done. I can shoryuken fine. I can super on the landing. But I keep dropping after the HP because I think pressed too soon? Can I hold my movement while I'm mid animation??
And connecting the Shoryuken into the super is throwing me as well because compared to a neutral jump landing the timing is faster, and I'm coming out of an animation on the way down, so when exactly do I do the inputs?
I'm also trying to learn between GGXrd and I'll start Tekken 7 soon but it's something that might slow me down for a while.

Just press forward, roll the stick down and roll it back to forward one smooth motion

Just make the move come out after a delay idiot

That's retarded

The whole point of DPs is to be invincible on frame one and come out fast enough to hit people.

Its not whether or not its easy, of course it its, the point is that you can fuck it up, which gives the opponent the opportunity to punish, adding more depth to the game and demanding more skill from the playet

Rising thunder also died because of that noobie combo breaker shit that ended up being better than the combo extender choice

>Reminder that you just input hadoken twice to do this. It's not fucking hard.
What? Isn't double qcf+P your super? Just press forward and do a single act motion. Hell I think even pressing down forward twice plus punch will make a shoryuken come out. At least in SFV.

Just stop having your thoughts coming out after a delay, idiot.

Then why would the OP state it would be overpowered if it was avaliable at the press of a button? Both a motion inout and slower startup frames acheive a delay on how fast you can use the move.

Seething

You are a (french translation of "delay")

This is correct, and yet also there are games which have simplified or removed motions (Rising Thunder, Fantasy Strike, Blade Strangers, Kyanta, Granblue Vs) and yet the same people that complain about doing DPs can't get into those games either because it's the fundamentals of playing fighting games that elude them, not the execution barrier.

There are games where execution becomes a real requirement to get beyond a low-mid level with all but the simplest characters, but Street Fighter is not one of them. Fuck's sake, they added Ed & Falke just for these people.

Attached: 1540097418409.jpg (997x995, 204K)

Says the idiot with no argument

that would feel terrible to use

Isn't it balanced by being the most punishable type of move in the game? What difference would it really make if it was doable without the motion part?

It would become less punishable since there's no room for error, there would also be no downtime for it after blocking, which is what would truly make it busted, covering all options except blocking on frame 1

Not a big difference. Its entirely subjective wether you like the kind of game where you need to build some muscle memory to do stuff vs everything is mechanically simpler

There is some depth you can get from mechanical complexity like in games with a meta game in their combo strings, but DP is not one of them.

I feel like motions would make more sense if they always matched the attack, so a quarter circle forward motion put out an attack that started at the bottom and went to the side; half circles went left to right or vice versa, and so on.

>It would become less punishable since there's no room for error
who the fuck screws up a DP besides absolute scrubs?

>there would also be no downtime for it after blocking
no motion vs motion input only effects its startup. Different games have different frames on their DP's, and they all function pretty much the same. Even the ones with 1 button DP's.

>which is what would truly make it busted
shit argument

There is interesting stuff with mechanically deep games but basic shit like DP's are proven to be just be scrub barriers and nothing else.

Most games let you buffer the motion for a DP when you're in blockstun anyway as long as it comes out after that blockstun is over. All that really needs to be done is to make sure that getting that reversal DP through a gap in a string (which if not intentional was the attacker's fault) or through a wakeup option (and if the attacker did a safe jump or in some games a correct meaty they would beat it out) doesn't give the character doing the DP a ton of damage or advantage beyond forcing neutral (unless they burn a ton of resources in doing so, and if they just mash out the follow-up without hitconfirming then they risk burning meter AND getting a heft punish).

You can balance a game around lacking motions, it's just that people that the OP talks about who want them gone from established games are stupid because they are balanced with motions in mind.

Name literally one fighting game with an active community with something that awful

Based correct user

Why are the scrubbiest fuckers making arguments for mechanical complexity making room for game depth without even knowing which parts of the game it actually effects?

Only casuals think execution barriers are more important than decision making.

There is a damn reason of why people hate tiger knee motions.

virtua fighter gang, but seriously, what's wrong with execution?

Shoryuken already has 3 startup frames as its delay for light, 4 medium, and 5 heavy.

So its not even correct that there isn't a delay already.

>ults
go away

A move can be potentially broken for more than one reason.

Don't most games have i frames on DP? KOF uses super armor.

Right just like it feels terrible to use heavy kick instead of light kick. Fuck outta here with these shit ass arguments.

>if you could do a Shoryuken in SFV at the touch of a button

Attached: mexican shoryuken.png (717x413, 580K)

>Touch mode guile on SF4 3ds.

Attached: 1548046506969.jpg (319x316, 36K)

Oh right. That version showed the mad potential for an official SF4 rainbow edition mode.

Omega was neat but didn't go far enough.

For Street Fighter, there are special cancels (when you cancel the animation of a normal attack into a special move, such as cr.MK into Hadoken, or HP into Shoryuken) and super cancels (same deal, just canceling a normal or special move into a super). In both cases, you have to cancel during the move's active frames, but after hit. So for HP->Shoryu->Super you cancel the HP during the actual hit, and you cancel the Shoyru after the first hit. In this particular care you need to do it very quickly because if you wait too long the shoryu will pop them up too far and the shin hadou will whiff.

In SFV and SFIV this sucks because of negative edge. You'll get a super when you let go of punch unless you train yourself to just busterhold it which builds bad habits if you ever play a different SF or any fighter in general

None of this really gets at the issue with fighting games. The games are fine, the problem is matchmaking. As much as FGC vets lionize the "get bodied 500 times to learn just like my mongolian paintings", almost nobody really learns or has fun doing that and they inevitably drop the game after losing over and over to people who have the basics of fighting games down.

If fighting games can fix the matchmaking, that's half the battle right there.

It's better to just do the proper input instead. You won't get super if you end on down-forward.

You say like smurfing isn't a thing.

Even with smurfing its a better system than just hoping people join rooms together of equal skill level.

And this is why MOBA is trash, it is for brainless shitters like you who can't do anything besides click a mouse and punch a macro. There is nothing cool about it and that's why all those games end up boring as hell. There's a reason the most popular ones are all free to play.

Most of fighting game population dry up after a month or two.

Isn't a problem with matchmaking. But people not getting arsed to learn or just qutting.

MOBA games are cerebral which are why they are popular and the best esports.

Because putting the delay on the input is different from putting the delay on the move itself. This is because you can buffer moves.
For the most obvious example, if you get knocked down in a fighting game, you can input the DP motion BEFORE you stand up, so that way you will use the move the moment you stand up. In this situation, the attack will come out instantly in gameplay. If you were to actually make the move itself slower, then the move would be much slower in this situation.

Keep in mind that the idea of a 1 button DP isn't foreign or necessarily OP. It's just a different way of balancing a move and it changes how the character players. The idea is that by having a motion, it requires the player to commit to inputting the move, rather than actually making the move slower.

That pentagram one is BULLSHIT and you know it

So are fighitng games, fighting games just have exectuion barriers which is why they're niche. Also MOBAs are popular because they're team games, fuckers can always 'blame the team' if they lose. If you lose in a fighting game it's most likely you got utterly outplayed and most people cannot face this reality.

You can take your time doing it, spend meter to make it safer, and simply need to return to neutral rather than ride the gate.

bro you are literally drawing and you get confirmation when you do each swipe so you know if you fucked up

This ain't Ivy's command throw

Of course now. Shoryuken can be easily countered command or not.

Do people actually dislike special move motion inputs?
I literally only just started playing fightan for the first time last week and it's genius.
If you don't like special move motion inputs then you don't like fighting games and never will.

I can do Summon Suffering but I can't do the pentagram bullshit because if you roll the stick at all you get fucked.

They are but you don't actually achieve the cerebreal play of fighting games until you get past the execution barrier. Like you can't actually enjoy a fighting game competitively the way you can a MOBA until you reach a certain skill floor which is why its not that good as an esport

You need the casual playerbase to engage with the same kind of play that the pros do except at a lower level so that you can recognize and appreciate things more as a spectator.

>OMFG DRAGON PUNCHES ARE SOOOOO HARD I CAN NEVER DO THEM FIGHTING GAMES SUCK
>literally just press forward and then a regular fireball motion
Why are some people like this?

Button mash retards.

Takes like 30 minutes to learn a entire movelist on both sides.

>another Yea Forums discusses why they can't do a dp

o im all in this one

\
yeah well she a dumb bitch anyway, play a real character

Attached: 270[1].png (270x387, 99K)

In UMVC3 doing F, DF, D, B (missing the DB) would not count as a half circle back. I got my ass bashed many times because of sloppy execution. Learn from my errors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Retards consider maiden masher input complex.

Let it sink for a moment.

what's the name of the guilty gear super input? it's like half circle back, forward. It feels great on a stick.

632146 heavy slash I think

It depends on what character but if you are talking the one shot kill its always 236 236 heavy slash

if you could do a sonic boom and flash kick at the touch of a button it'd be overpowered too
that's exactly what happened with SF4 on the 3DS

LOL, you just need to input "forward, down, forward".

I could do that shit when I was literally so young I don't even remember my actual age, probably 6. People who complain shoryuken is hard to do are literally and unironically retarded, and should stick to their moba garbage.

Attached: 1565061469310.jpg (500x659, 60K)

and before someone says "cooldowns"
he would still have the ability to walk forward-sonic boom which is busted, and flash kicking instantly is still busted
>so balance him around cooldowns
if Guiles booms were the same as the Shoto's fireballs, he would lose the thing that makes him what he is

hcbf is honestly easier to just do a 360 I've found. source, playing potemkin at this very moment

Not quite. A double qcf is usually a super. You just need to do f+qcf+p and it registers as a dp. It's also the easy way to cancel a dp into super by adding another qcf: f+qcf+p+qcf+p

you're also forgetting that Ryu can hadou or shoryu while moving and sorta giving up defense, which is why it's not as good as flash kick/sonic, since guile has to actually sacrifice all offense for it.

It's actually a genius idea in design although I'm not sure if they thought that hard in '92

They only problem i got with sometimes is
> Making a DP when i try a Hadoken
> Making a Hadoken when i try a DP
> Super when i try a DP
> A Super after a Hadoken

counterpoint: Geiger from fantasy strike. his "gear charge meter" resets to 0 when he walks forward or does any of the ground specials, and takes about a second to fill to full. but then again the whole game is balanced around one-button specials so it's not that big of a point.

In general, if the move doesn't come out at all, you pressed too early. If it comes out and was blocked, you pressed too late.

>doing something once =knowing how to dragon punch

literally takes months of practice for someone new to consistently do the motions and be able to input them in combos

stop downplaying how difficult things really are

No further amount of removing input barriers (beyond, say, SFIV level of ease) will get more people to stick with fighting games, because getting better at fighting games is a soul-crushing grind. The reason it's soul-crushing is because every loss is solely your fault. If you don't play every day you won't get better
I got pretty good at SFIV and later Ultmate Marvel 3, but I plateaued because I stopped playing every day and eventually quit. I'd like to play another game but nothing on the market appeals to me enough to get back into that grind.

>months
took me a couple weeks to learn the motions and implement them in a match when i first started fighting games with SFV

It's also meant to simulate performing a special technique in martial arts. It's twofold.

People who can't Shoryuken should just end their lives tbqhyaf. Literally press forward, down, down forward. How fucking hard is that

Attached: 1562213233178.gif (235x185, 684K)

>EO mode guile in CVS2
>EO mode Bison in CVS2

Attached: 1 3.jpg (640x480, 45K)

Try to make a conscious effort to end with the stick in the corner and you should minimise the accidental hadokens. Assuming those last two issues are accidentally cancelling into supers, make sure you just press punch once.

If it takes you months then you need to switch to a different input method. I play Melty on keyboard and the only one that required practise at all was half circle. At first I did DPs as 6236 which would occasionally result in me dashing but I just went into training mode for like 10 minutes to figure out how to do 623 and then DPs were even easier.

There are already 6 dedicated buttons for punches and kicks. Where exactly would you fit 3 strengths on 3-6 special moves to single buttons?
Just because you have the fine motor skills of a scallop doesnt mean motions are difficult. Even nigs can do it.

Casual here. Why the fuck do you need all that complicated terminology for motions, why not just saying "forward, down, down+forward"?

There also a lot who use numbers (like the numbpad) 236+p for hadoken

qcf is easier to type than Down, Down-forward, Forward

Because it takes too much space. But you can find numpad inputs if triggers your autismo.

alright, gonna try it. Also wanted to change the spring inside my stick, because it feels so week, if i try something

qfc is a very common input, so it developed its own name. Otherwise dp into super would be
>f+d+df+f+p+d+df+f+p

>Yea Forums never talks about video games
>Yea Forums can't even do a simple DP motion
wonder why i even come to this place.

because you love us and no other place to go, except reddt and pedoera

>mash buttons.
>lose.
>have nobody to blame.

I wonder why Yea Forums hates fighting games.

Attached: crane game.jpg (1280x720, 220K)

doesn't potemkin have a 360 command grab though, it would seem easier and better to do the half circle instead

Bros what are the kinds of realisations you make only after hundreds of hours of fgs thats useful to new people

Potemkon is hcbf
And in stylish mode its only forward + button

Kek, just tried this now, and it actually works. And here I was thinking that I needed to input "down forward down forward" after a DP to cancel it with a super.

Attached: Crianças com defeito.jpg (413x490, 133K)

Are those all charge specials? How much time do you have to charge between them?

>*Wastes your super*
Try again.

>Months
I just learned stick for the first time, user. DPs facing left were tough, but I managed to get them down in a couple of hours. What the fuck are you on?

Cringe

To be fair the inputs themselves aren't hard, but learning to not just mash out a combo you have in your muscle memory and instead hitconfirm properly does take a while to learn

Same as flashkick or sonic boom.

Not much.

Numpad notations are infinitely better than garbage notations such as QCF and HQCB

drawing a quarter circle in the direction you're facing is far more intuitive than trying to picture a keypad and following the numbers in order

>babies can't execute moves in games made after 2008
Lmao try to actually reversal in ST
youtu.be/52e3LNOCEwg

it's only looking for hcb+forward but going straight across the middle is harder than just riding the gate all the way around.

I still get confused because where I live we use U notation i.e. a quarter circle is a half U

KoF commands get my dick hard like you wont believe

Explain this shit to me, I never enjoyed SF2 because the hitboxes feels weird.

Is this just a left/right mix up? Why didn't the guy just blocked?

Attached: 1505400123221.png (245x210, 14K)

SFV. Ed's ex.DP has 16 frame startup and you only need to press PP to perform it

>imagine people that complain such inputs try GG or KoF
>imagine these same people doing basic movement in Tekken

Attached: 1522212015611.jpg (734x747, 433K)

Vega knocks you down, does the special move where he jumps off the wall, and hits you with a left/right 50/50. After that, you're knocked down again, and the cycle continues.
Damdai was probably trying to do a reversal super out of it or something

The commentators paint the picture.

Vega's Flying Barcelona Attack has both that hit move and an unblockable grab.

The only reliable way out would be with a reversal shoryuken, which in ST, reversal windows are tiny.

Watching it again, Damdai actually pulls of multiple reversals lol. And he was playing as O.Ken, and O characters don't have access to Super meter.

Vega's FBA was just really good, especially since he couldn't 'wiff' his Super ever.

Same with Falke. They're also both garbage characters.

SNK inputs are pretty damn simple aside raging storm, and only because nostalgia.

I don't get why people sperg about it.

but bbtag, persona and granblue have one button dp

Pleb here. Would 3 middle circles work for this? Like how 632146+H can also be done by a full circle + H. It's unoptimal but it works.

bbtag, persona and granblue are for casual fucks

cool story bro...

Attached: pbs_twimg_com_media_ECXvVttUYAAm.jpg (1080x864, 102K)

I don't think that'd pan out, but rolling the input is fairly easy.

Is that actually an input from SamSho? Whose is it and what move is it?

No, input shortcut isn't that lazy.

KOF 98 gives HCB 3x as alt input tho which is ass.

>streaming a fighting game + lag online
what the fuck

The Stadia thing had MK11 on it and I laughed when the guy said that tight, fast gameplay was important to them.

For SP i think is a bit doable since Samsho don't have fast gameplay.

But yeah it's fucked for online.

I wish SFV would be enjoyable.
> Bad Look
> Worst Character System
> Lot of Lag Switcher

Jack-O is the only Guilty Gear character with a 360 command grab.

Play kof on fightcade.

Fucking idiot. Holy shit. I mean, oh fucking Jesus please let be bait.

lucia players are braindead monkeys holy shit

>fighting games
>on stadia

Drive button in BlazBlue isn't overpowered at all.

>if you could do a Shoryuken in SFV at the touch of a button, it would be completely overpowered
have you played bbtag?

That makes the game bad. Fighting games are fun because of difficulty in reading your opponent, using knowledge of the game to your advantage, and having quick reactions.

Nobody likes having to learn complex inputs. There is no reason for it to exist other than lazy game balancing.

I will check it out. Any character recommendation as Ryu Fag?

Don't some of arcsys's games have one button dp? Why can they do it but no one complains?

EX Ryo or 96 Kyo.

The fact people still complain about inputs being too hard amazes me.

Got it! Thanks user

dp isnt complex

I tried to get into fighting games but I eventually gave up.
Not due to losing, I don't mind it, but due to the embarrassment of not giving opponents a good fight.

>DP
>Hard.

Movelists started being dumbed down around mid 90s and number of hard inputs on modern fighters can be counted on hands.

Attached: 1548429793447.png (409x445, 231K)

Drive button isn't necessarily just a special move either, and often times requires conjunction with inputs.

I thought that pick was real for a second, you scared me user

Attached: lowground.jpg (719x494, 13K)

You then lose the ability to use it in combos or as a reversal.

That have nothing to do with how the game plays, wich is the actual problem in it.

>V-Trigger is an annoying barrier over the cool shit that you can do, limiting potential. The whole game is balanced around that shit, so without it the game is too barebones, and with it always on it would be too broken
>very low skill ceilling, the things you do as a "only play online for fun XD" player, are the same as a professional player would, with little to discover, the combo showed in the character reveal trailer is usually the biggest thing you can do with that character

At least in one thing they are good, the way they keep spamming new characters always makes me get back, fool around a little with them, learn the little there is to learn, try it out on online, and them abandon the game again.

Sweetie, haven't you heard the gossips? Senator Amidala is totally fucking one of her jedi bodyguards!

Looks like you Naboocucks will have to find somebody else to orbit.

Its not the only problem

> Not getting rewarded at all

Which would new people help to stay on the track

> Win a Match = 50FM
> Lose a Match = 0FM
> Buying a Character = 100kFM = 2k Wins

What would be a fair system without changing the FM price? Something that doesn't make it trivial to build up enough FM to get a character because Capcom wouldn't do that. 500FM for a win and 100FM for a loss? That way you get a character for 200 wins and even if you're awful at the game you could eventually earn enough for one character over the course of a few months even if you lose over and over.

>the things you do as a "only play online for fun XD" player, are the same as a professional player would, with little to discover, the combo showed in the character reveal trailer is usually the biggest thing you can do with that character

Disagree, I play Ibuki and the guy who used her in this EVO's top 8 was doing tons of crazy gymnastics I could never do or have even seen before.

You get EXP for losing, they should make it so it's 50 FM for a win, 10 FM for a loss if you at least took one round, 5 FM if you got totally BTFO.

I can understand not giving the characters easily, most games don't even give you the option to grind for them, I actually liked how they let you grind to get characters. GG Xrd gives you no rewards at all and is probably on my top 3 of most aggressively greedy fighting game out there, but I still play it a lot because the game have such a high skill ceiling that you can always learn new shit.

The problem is not fighting money, 3rd Strike have no fighting money and is still played to this day, the problem is the lack of options.

Not even close to the things she can do in SF4.

Attached: 1526492995261.webm (600x338, 1.49M)

This

Assuming a brand new player picks up fighting games and picks a character
What traits seperate them from the best player of that character and how can they start closing the gap
Basically whats the road to git gud

Ah yes, the pretzel input.

>Basically whats the road to git gud
watch your replays so you don't keep doing the same shit over and over again. Also watch replays and tutorials from pro players to learn new tech. You can also attend local tournaments to accelerate your gameplan because people will give you advice there.

Whoever designed Ibuki is a cunt

Street Fighter IV for 3DS proved this theory.

Guile was unbreakable. On-command Shoryukens were fucking brutal.

Who the fuck thought making Charge moves instant was a good idea

The online for this game was hellish. E.Honda basically dominated everything with a single move.

Back to mar de mijo with you, scum.

it's a portable fighting game, which nobody takes seriously

I can't, the gorderadora banned me for misogyny.

It was actually pretty good port, and touch mode were separated anyway.

No one complains that DP is hard and it isn't. The hard part is executing it mid combo mixed in with 1-3 frame links and other inputs in between. I can shoryu 50/50 times in a row. The second I'm doing a 5.mp into DP mid combo is when I accidentally start triggering supers instead. That's the problem people have with inputs, not the input itself in isolation

Practice makes it perfect.

But 1 frame links are pure autismo.

Dont start complaining about 3frame links, they were literally made for people like you to master without much practice which fucking killed the combo gods

Will have to agree with this. The combo requirements are a BIT too autistic sometimes.

indeed

I just do it right. *shrug*

No need to learn a sick loop de loop combo with 1-2 frame links that is only possible with combo video setups.

Most of time bread and butters are everything you need.

If you don't want to learn motions then play Ultra Fight Da Kyanta 2. It's just Light/Heavy/Special/Super with macros for EX/Throw/Kyanta Cancel you can easily put on other buttons (plus a Taunt, and they're 3S style where they give you a small bonus for doing them). Barring the controls the game is like if CvS2 got high on speed.

Also it's free on Steam.

Attached: Garansha.png (960x540, 72K)

Sure that looks cool but a combo like that is something that only 0.01% of players are going to be doing. It's not something they'd just wing it and throw together as they go. He obviously spent a lot of time learning that and for most fights it's not practical to do. Still cool though.

Attached: fighting_games.jpg (1200x678, 102K)

I don't think you understand how any of this works

Its like Adult Swim if it was an anime fighter