What made it so good?

It's actually quite amusing watching them have to continue adding more and more servers to Classic because of the demand becoming so high. Fucking shocker that people are so eager to play a version of the game that wasn't complete fucking shit.

I wonder what the retail team is thinking as this all happens?

You can optimize jank. No other game does that.

Demoralized, probably. I'd imagine there are people in development eager to work towards restoring the game back to what it was, but the sad truth is that it just wouldn't be a great idea. The game has been super casualized much longer now than when it wasn't. A large portion of their players have been conditioned to depend on a lot of the features present in retail that don't exist in Classic. Reverting the game back to how it was would likely alienate a large chunk of the player base.

We'll see how Classic appears to affect retail development though. I'll laugh my ass off to wake up one day to Classic's player count outweighing retail's.

I wanted to be a feral druid so I had to grind exalted reputation with the Silithus guys and also grind exalted rep with the Warsong Gulch battleground
I loved BGs and capture the flag so I didn't mind that, but the point I was trying to make is when I got those items it felt like a real achievement and I could show them off with pride.

Even your mom could understand it and go, "wow, someday I'm gonna get THAT cool shit!".

nostalgia

I am not sure if Classic is going to do all that well for a long time. Most people I know that want to play it actually never played vanilla and just want to powerlevel to 60 and do raids. Most of them don't even realize that it takes months to get there with normal playtimes.

Some of them want to play classic instead of modern WoW because they are sick of the endgame grind, not realizing that Vanilla was the grindiest version of WoW ever

It takes a month of casual grind to get to 60.
People do not understand that Classic is nothing but an event, a Joyful one, but an event nonetheless. It will last for as long as it needs to last.

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Yeah but the grind in Classic is way more enjoyable than retail.

Classic was good because it was about the World of Warcraft. You had a whole world to go around and explore and do stuff in. It was normal to see characters of many levels outside of the cities and a lot of it felt like D&D. The game was focused on all the levels rather than just the end game. The end game did become a focus because players will end up there, but it wasn't the only focus. The pre-AQ event was a sign that all levels were being considered with new content.

I wish classic had some changes done to it, fixing bugs, attempting some class balance, the new animations and graphics (Head tracking is great), and guild banks. I also feel that they should get rid of the change spec tax so players can actually experiment with the vast talent trees open to them rather than doing what Icy veins is going to tell them to do.

The day I got exalted with Alterac and got my Warrior his Unstoppable Force was such a great fucking feel. I didn't have the schedule for raiding on my server (was EST playing on a PST server, Laughing Skull, so raids that started around 7 PM were starting at 9 PM my time, and I had to be in bed for school by 10:30 PM). So getting a weapon such as that felt like a great achievement.

Now a days, you enter a BG, come out with your free loot box, and have a chance of getting a warforged epic weapon. There's no feeling of accomplishment. Just a false sense of entitlement when you get nothing but honor badges from your box.

Classic's main game is 1-60
Raiding and everything else is optional

warcrafttavern.com/news/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-level-60-in-wow-classic-an-objective-look/

It's not, user.
Grinding mats to get items for a possible chance at beating a boss that might drop something for you which there is some possibility that you get it is not "more enjoyable"

That's what most people that started later don't get though. I know a bunch of people that see themselves as huge WoW fans but would skip the leveling and exploring if they could

To him, a 40 hour week of WoW could be considered a "casual grind."

While I would love for an optional server that provided a sort of Nu-Classic experience with what you mentioned, I have little to no faith that Blizzard, as they stand now, would rightly and properly implement such features, adjustments, and balances. Hell, they've removed so many abilities from classes in retail, that their solution to adjusting class performance is to simply throw a flat 5% damage output onto them and call it "balance."

They put minimal effort into it. They don't care. The only reason they're even doing Classic is because it's probably costing them more money to constantly hunt and shut down all the Classic private servers, and finally realized that the demand is so high that they may as well just release it themselves and make profit from it. Retail is in such a slump, what do they have to lose?

>I'll laugh my ass off to wake up one day to Classic's player count outweighing retail's.
That's gonna be day 1.

>MILFs

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This. There is a reason why every vanillafag rerolled the instant another server opened up

it was a completely new and immersive social platform, it actually led to people meeting and forming relationships while it existed, it was in a period of the internet that is complete opposite to what we have now,

>Level up and spend your hard earned talent points, one at a time.

Does anyone feel like this is blizzard talking shit about the old school talent tree? It seems to be written very weirdly.

The devs gave a shit.

Then Activision got involved and the game was ruined forever with all the dumbed down bullshit they forced on players during Cata.

Reverting the current game back to a Classic-like state would be impossible. The content beyond WotLK simply wasn't structured for it. It was structured towards reaching and sustaining the endgame aspects for that expansion's time. It would require far too much work across the entire game to rebalance every single bit of content. It would be more cost and time efficient to just simply build a new MMO - which also isn't a good idea financially. MMOs are a dying genre, and the amount of current surviving MMOs can be counted on one hand.

it's a product of an older internet where you didn't know peoples real names and you didn't talk to them outside of the game.

I think that if Classic does well, it will be the final buzz to wake Blizzard up after pressing the snooze button for years now. During the height of WoW, Blizzard was pulling in $180 million dollars a month from one game alone. Blizzard has not released a game and had it flop until very recently. Hearthstone was printing printers that printed money. Blizzard, rightfully, thought they could do no wrong, everything they did was making money, so why bother paying attention to the community?

Now with the abysmal mess that BFA is, hearthstone failing, overwatch bleeding players and the professional scene still not being taking seriously like they want, pro-HotS dead, pro-SC2 being overshadowed by pro-SC, the embarrassment that was Blizzcon 2018, I think things are changing. Blizzard saw that their fans might actually be right about something for once.

What I hope happens is the Classic does gangbusters and blizzard takes a hard look at what actually made WoW good and re-implements those features into retail.

Fans are never correct, only incels play video games, especially MMOs.

Yeah, it's like it's written by a intern.

No. It's nu-Blizz's marketing team having zero connection and understanding as to what causes people to find appeal in Classic, and why.

If they wanted to properly market Classic, they shouldn't use such inane reasons to market it. I would use better reasons, such as:

>40 man raids
>extensive adventure-filled journey from 1-60
>explore classic dungeons in their prime
>explore classes as they were at the start of the game
>advertise class quests
>advertise the community aspects long lost over time to the casual mess they've steadily implemented

There are far more appealing ways to advertise Classic, but their marketing team are a bunch of idiots that only understand how to entice casuals.

It amazes me that so many of Blizzard's legacy developers dipped out after WotLK / Cata, that the newer developers have to actually dive so deep into old versions of the games and observe their communities to understand how and why their own games were so successful. It's quite alarming, honestly. But hopefully, Classic takes off, is very successful, and snaps them out of the dipshit daze they've been stuck in. People stopped wanting casual experiences as far back as 2012. People want depth, detail, shit that rewards them equally in turn for the effort put in. They want to earn shit and feel accomplished. Not have shit handed to them for simply subbing.

kill yourself wowfags

Arthas confirmed for smash

Can confirm, its my gfs she "will" be a mother when im done with her typical fallback game

It was an RPG and not an action game with stats.
There's a much more nuanced answer, but that is what it boils down to.

>Classic does amazing
>brings in more consistent and steady subs than retail
>Blizzard studies aspects of Classic that people find appeal in
>begins work on a new MMO building off of these aspects
>MMO is announced 2 or 3 years later
>releases 5 years after because Blizzard's development cycle crawls along at the steady pace of a crippled corpse
>game flops instantly
>Blizzard goes under

My personal idea of how it will go down.

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>I'll laugh my ass off to wake up one day to Classic's player count outweighing retail's.
It will happen, it's only a matter of time. Just look at OSRS vs RS3, RS3 might as well be dead compared to the population that OSRS gets

>CLASSIC TALENTS AND TALENT TREES!!!!!
>picture is of cataclysms already neutered version of talent trees not actual vanilla's trees

My least favorite thing about retail is all of the heavy story shit. I don't want to have to crawl through cinematic bullshit and watch characters I don't even know or give a shit about do action-movie-esque bullshit. I don't want to be treated like I'm some huge ass hero known world-wide because I kicked the ankles out from under a few raid bosses.

I want to log into a world where everyone is simply a citizen of that world. Where every area has it's own storyline, and where each raid is it's own self-contained situation.

Leveling through retail WoW's content is super fucking retarded. Primarily in thanks to Cataclysm and how it irreversibly fucked the entire game.

Nah it’ll be more like
>Classic does amazing
>But the investors still aren’t satisfied because it’s not pulling in nearly as much as anticipated
>Cash shop is added to appease investors and retail players
>Money gets pulled in hard at the expense of the classic experience
>Many leave yet others still stay
>Flying gets introduced to keep people around because “it’s too slooow”
>Classic then spirals harder until it becomes like retail but with talent points and spell ranks

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You can thanks wotlk for that.

The charm I find in Classic is how simple everything is. It's just a simple game where you go from one quest giver to another piling on objectives, and then solving them.

Now a days, they try too hard to make everything new and refreshing, and it just makes everything appear too flashy and busy. There's little charm to any of it.

Although WotLK introduced story-driven scenes and over-arching expansion plotlines, it did it in a way where it wasn't overly intrusive or exhausting. You went from zone to zone fulfilling unique questlines exclusive to those zones, that all subtly tied into the overarching plot.

Now, you constantly have the plot shoved in your face, and every other plot-driven questline has you watching clearly over-budgeted cutscenes. We fucking get it. Both factions that have been at War for decades are even more at war now, and I have to watch about eleven fucking cutscenes per zone about the bullshit effort of recruiting all these dumb fucking races to get involved in a stupid petty war driven by old god corruption, because nobody can write a unique fucking story to save their fucking lives.

It gave you the illusion of choice.

Most specs had only one min/maxed way of building for endgame, but with so many options even the most diehard poopsockers could indulge in one or two talents that suited their playstyle but weren't exactly considered "standard" by community consensus.

It's much better than now where every skill tier has one generally useful skill, one skill that's better for PvP, and one skill that's better for certain boss fights.

Plus respec costs were brutal for the average player so you learned to love and master your spec.

WoW's current power level doesn't allow you to be just a citizen anymore. Assuming your character has done it all you have: defeated 3 old gods, defeated the main villain of WC3:tFT, defeated countless troll god like figures, stopped two alien invasions, stopped an alternate universe-time traveling alien invasion, defeated Satan, defeated the alternate universe's version of WC3:RoC's villain, you traveled back in time a number of times to kick previous villain's asses, was the point man for the overthrowing of a powerful elven city, defeated manufactured old god, and you just got done killing the last WC3 villain.

Being just a citizen of the world isn't an option anymore.

>Being just a citizen of the world isn't an option anymore.
It very much could be if they had written it better. It's very easy, all you have to do is for every single major lore raid boss you just make someone else be responsible for the victory. You didn't kill arthas did you? You didn't kill illidan either. Just end the fight, another lore character comes in, done

When I started I was always told the game actually started at 60. People for the longest time acted like Endgame stuff was all that mattered in any MMO and the leveling was just a roadblock.

> What made it so good?

I've thought about this A LOT. I've played World of Warcraft hardcore since launch. I rarely play other games.

As TL;DR as I can make it:
It ultimately comes down to the way the effort and reward system was implemented: items were much more rare and rewarded dedication of time and farming efforts vs. just skill to kill a boss and get cool loot. Want a particular dungeon item? Keep farming the 5-person dungeon everyday. You'll get it eventually! Want a particular raid item? Save up the DKP and/or let your raid buddies know!

There was no issue of "we'll NEVER kill this boss in time before the next expansion... mythic raiding is so fucking hard..." etc. etc. because you can't do fancy PvE dancing mechanics. Instead, you had to organize 40 people to farm motherfucking resistance gear!

>taking away the player's victory is a better option

no

and by item i should emphasize that this naturally excludes the concept of different item versions and consequently raid versions

Plot-wise? Yes. Very much yes.

The player being this big gigantic hero has done nothing good for the game's writing, and has only negatively affected gameplay, along with these retarded fucking artifacts and legendaries they continue to force us to level with every expansion these days.

I'm gonna roll a 21/31/0 paladin for maximum dungeon tanking and self healing.

How fugged am I?

Every xpac after vanilla is all about endgame, though. Hence why it's always getting nerfed and you can literally pay to skip the whole process

The illusion of choice.

It literally is. You're a nobody. Every single end of raid boss they added that wasn't either beaten ultimately by some lore figure, or was a "wasn't at full power lol" rag or c'thun reason, was a mistake.

Gay solution, if this motherfucker is just going to come in and steal my kill why didn't he just clear the place himself.
Still mad about my Arthas kill.

What's the point of all those talents if only one combination is actually good?

I know you want to go back to the time when nobody did any theory crafting or math of pure numbers. But those days are over.
Now you are going to get
>Follow your class guide on icy veins user or you do not raid.
Min/max rules all of WoW now. Even going back to classic is no escape.
Soyy but your totally "fun" spec is shit and your RL is going to tell you to go respec to the correct talents.

>One at a time
Do I detect snark? Are the Devs being snarky because they hate having to release their old game?

All good points above.

WoW back then was also more of a mix; no one actually knew what kind of MMO it was going to be. I hung on for ages in the stupid hope it would become more sandbox because it had hooks for sandbox features like the reputation system being linked to 'criminality' and PvP.

The problem was Jeff Kaplan of all people was given almost total control after Mark Kern had done the real work. He was a hardcore Everquest player and wanted to turn WoW into an EQ-clone. That would take up virtually all the post-release development resources, even as the WoW team kept expanding. So WoW was funnelled down a path which started off broad but kept narrowing, to the point that you can't have spontaneous gameplay experiences: everything has to be tailored by a designer.

Retail WoW is the cul-de-sac endpoint of the disasterous decision to let ex-Everquest players have it all their own way, with player-agency and choice inevitably having to be curtailed. With Vanilla WoW, things won't make sense to newer players because these hooks were for features that were planned but could never be fulfilled whilst a theme-park raid-treadmill had to keep going.

Aesthetics and archetypes
The "feel" of wow from the combat to the art style and sound design is absolutely amazing and no mmo has come close. They also did a really good job nailing the fantasy archetypes with the classes. A mage feels like a mage. A warrior feels like a warrior. While the game was far from perfect, they did such a good job that wow still stands as the king of mmos to this day.

>Paladin tanking in vanilla
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH put on the dress and fuck off back to the healer line palabitch.

What's the point of life if only one person can be the best?

The grind in retail is the exact same, except when the loot you want drops there's an additional rng factor that ultimately makes it so the item turns out to be total trash if it doesn't forge with additional ilvl + socket, and even then it's destined to be replaced by almost literally anything come next patch.
So the grind in retail is actually less enjoyable.

Jews, not even once.

>why didn't he just clear the place himself.
Needed you to deal with the lackeys and footsoldiers, obviously. Overwhelming numbers beat one cunt no matter how strong they are

Because it isn't, there are a whole bunch of good combinations, and there are a whole variety of combinations that do a specific thing someone wants to do better or to improve a skill that they simply enjoy.

This is where your money is going, retailcucks. Blizzard is paying Cavill to plug Classic instead of making good content in BFA. Stay cucked.

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Shit son, we could spend eons talking about it.

The important thing is we're going home.

Because the whole "there's a cookie cutter build anyway so who cares about having a lot of choices" argument is dumb. One of the cool things about vanilla was that it wasn't based around the players that are obsessed with min maxing, like current WoW is. If you wanted to have your own unique playstyle, you could and the talent trees supported that.

Second thing is that it felt a lot more like a gradual gain in power with a big surge from time to time when you unlocked a really big talent, whereas current talents are usually some barely relevant defensive shit, and only like 2 rows per spec are actually important when it comes to playstyle.

?

Might happen if they implement the same content release system in Vanilla as in OSRS. Otherwise Classic is only on temporary time

I wish they did more with dungeons adapting to the class you brought in minor ways.
For example; having a rogue pick the lock in Deadmines bypasses "You there check out that noise"

Nothing. Classic trees sucked the big one!

I've actually seen some guild ads that say that they're going to allow less traditional specs; maybe check out one of those communities

Feels like you're building a character in an RPG, instead of picking perks in call of duty

He has played WoW before Classic. He is a known WoW fan.

Imagine making your game so shit that people are literally willing to pay you to bring back old content and stop making new content.

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God do I fucking want Classic+

Or even better a NG+ hardcore mode with harder mobs.

This was always a thing in any semi-serious guild.
Min/max'ing and theory crafting has always been a problem in rpgs, even the original ad&d had 2 pages dedicated to why powergaming should be discouraged.
Back in the day we just ignored those people and had fun, even if we never got to see endgame content.

Fuck I remember that silithus grind. I really came to love that zone.

>that it wasn't based around the players that are obsessed with min maxing
That was then, this is now.
back then most people knew was 1.2.3 rotation. Now people do fucking math. Or are you going to be happy doing subpar damage? I am sure the 39 otherguys really want a slacker like you on their MC raid.

Dude nearly missed the phonecall for the superman role cause he was healing. He's a known WoW player.

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>What is OSRS
>What is the entire last three years of 'remastered' games
>What is the new CoD
>What is the very likely new BF
It may have taken longer than anyone expected, but eventually anti consumer practices die. This is just a return to developers actually doing what consumers want since they stopped making money fucking us in the ass.

I remember tanking some of the 5-man dungeon bosses. With Rockbiter + Earthshock.

I was a Shaman

they have attempted that in BFA, its mostly to save a few seconds in a mythic + but its still there.

I actually like Mythic + and would like to see it somehow implemented. I find it more enjoyable than the tedium that is raiding.

It was just looking forward to something every level. That's it. Like, it's one step closer to that one ability and that was nice, but the overall design was, "Go this build or lose to everything"

Plus it was nice too look at

>Classic+
Not gonna happen. NuBlizz would never move an inch to do something that good and creative
At best we're getting copy pasted TBC servers/content in like 2 years.

this.
Vanilla WoW was so fucking grindy, like all you zoomers dont fucking understand.
You are restricted so raiding with peaople on your server so you need to organize
Raids last hours (6h+ on each weekend day just to advance was common)
the bosses were HARD. A slight fuckup would result in time costly setbacks.

I remember when AQ opened, there was an event where you could grind rep to upgrade a best in slot ring. I played for 12h straight because that event only ran for a limited time.

Vanilla WoW is absolute hell, you people don't understand.

Not him but anyone who uses 'raid' as a argument is immediately wrong and moronic.

No one gives a shit, period. Raids are not hard, you suffer from some serious memory issues and you should stop poop socking and thinking anyone respects you for it.

Fuck off. Cavill is a longtime World of Warcraft player. And there is no evidence that he was paid for the mention.

Not like this bros ... NOT LIKE THIS

I find it funny when people pretend classic had more depth when most of the classes just spam one button. There is a huge amount of stat prioritization in retail, and ilevel actually doesnt matter that much other than for tanks. You also have actual rotations so you get a big difference in performance between good players and average ones. With talent builds there are meaningful choices combining azerite, essences and talents for maximum synergy, rather than 'do 1% more crits' talents.

Everyone forgets this, especially when shitting on suboptimal classes/specs.

>tanking
>paladin
Choose one. Because I sure as shit won’t waste my time healing your ass.

>No one gives a shit
You will when you get blacklisted for being a scrub. then you will be crying on here about how "unfair" it is.

That's the kind of shit attitude that will ruin Classic. Why the fuck would you even play it if you're going act like it's retail anyway? To each their own I guess, but I would much rather clear MC some weeks later if that means I won't have to obsess over minmaxing my character.

bosses were super easy; once the next raid tier was out, EVERYONE on a server had done the previous tier, with the exception being C'thun and Twins

You aren't going to see that for a long time if ever if runescape is anything to go by. Idk how it is now, but everyone suspected that osrs surpassed RS3 in members for quite a while and then even after it became more obvious you could never really prove it because it was all under 1 membership. Then osrs unquestionably surpassed it about the time I quit when every Venezuelan rat was running 30 bots and Jagex didn't care.

OSRS is the only real equivalent. New CoD or BF is still a new game, new content. Vanilla is something that Blizzard doesn't even have to make.

>upgrades in any other game
>+2% damage with an ability
>''What a useless and pointless upgrade system, giving minor improvements''

>old WoW talent system
>Frostbolt deals 2% more damage
>''Yeep *siip* just like the good old days''
also

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What I don't get is all the streaming hype. Sure at launch, all those faggot streamers will rack up 50k+ viewers but who the fuck wants to sit and watch a retard kill the same mob for hours on end? Vanilla wow seems like a horrible stream game

The only thing anyone wants from BFA is for it to fucking end.

>Thinking he would even get a LBRS run without already having the gear from Naxx.
This is how WoW is now. Putting a classic skin on it is not going to change the playerbase. I bet within 2 weeks there is a gearscore addon up and running.

You're a dumb motherfucker. A) plenty of people don't raid and it's not relevant to them and B) if you raid there are a whole host of different talent choices you can make
Even the cookie cutter talent trees have points to spare that are dumped into utility shit or pvp shit or whatever that's not necessarily useful for a raid, and you can place those however the fuck you want in whichever utility skill you actually prefer over another

I'm going to play it because there's not really any good games out atm and world pvp was fun and dynamic. This is probably what will happen with 18-24 months though

>massive chad
>wow player
Doubt. He got paid to say he plays, obviously.

YOU THINK YOU DO BUT YOU DONT

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Well there has always been a way RPGs have punished power-gaming: having oddly-specific situations which require sub-optimally designed player-characters that neatly suit them.

WoW quickly got rid of such situations. Shammy Stone-Skin Totem was great, until it wasn't. Rogue's using Kidney Punch on a hard-hitting mob was great, until it wasn't.

There was of course the never-ending issue of 'balancing' classes for PvE and PvP. Why was this an issue? You just design the classes 100% for PvP, then design the PvE content around those classes as they are.

Blizz didn't do that. They wanted to make exactly the PvE hamster-wheel they thought was best and then had to keep re-designing the classes around that, whilst making completely separate gear and stats for PvP.

Making PvE and PvP entirely separate was another game-borifying mistake.

>EVERYONE on a server had done the previous tier, with the exception being C'thun and Twins
Imagine making up such bullshit. I know plenty of guilds on my server that upon aq opening hadn't beaten nefarian yet, fuck off idiot

>Follow the guide or you do not raid user.

I mean, that's really nice if you mean tanking 5 mans :0

Literally never happened in Vanilla, didnt happen in Nost and wont happen in Classic.

You're a loser through and through. Get a life, absolutely no one gives a shit about minmaxing.

this is simply wrong.
In Vanilla days most guilds struggled to going past BWL
There wasn't easy guides to follow since the trick to beating bosses was held back by the guilds trying to do world firsts

Classic Shamen had a foundation laid for tanking, but it was never fully realized and was thrown to the wayside. In TBC they began funneling them more towards DPS / Healing / Utility

based

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they're fine dungeon tanks, Warriors really don't have that much over them until 60 where the content is harder and the gear discrepancy becomes apparent

paladins dont even have a taunt in classic. your fucked.

Raids in Vanilla ARE hard

>actual depth to character development that involved class quests
This is still a thing, it was a huge thing last xpac
>talents that could be arranged in creative ways (although many ways may not be as ideal or as effective as the optimal talent allocations)
Why not just cut the bullshit and say you weren't allowed to raid unless you used the best spec? Honestly...there was only one way to go unless you PVPd
>community was emphasized through group quests, community trade, dungeon and raid organizing, and so-on
We still fucking have that, I use openraid all the time and have a consistent group of 4 people that I do dailies/mythics with.
>realms had a better sense of community
No they fucking didn't. The only perk to this was being recognized in trade chat occasionally. My server had one elitist as fuck guild who kept to themselves, two lesser ones who hated eachother, and one asshole guild who spent their entire week fucking up raid bosses for everyone else. Nobody liked you unless you were in their guild sucking their dick.
>loot actually mattered beyond item level. If you obtained a piece of loot, it wasn't always an upgrade. Depending on how it affected your current stat balance (hit / defense / crit / spell hit / shadow / restoration power), it might actually be a downgrade. As such, many BiS items for classes lasted from the 40s or 50s upwards into MC or even BWL depending on the item and how well it helped balance your stats
This was more of a negative than anything since all it meant was that blizzard had now idea how to balance items properly. I shouldn't be wearing a fucking trinket from BRD in AQ40.
>queuing for battlegrounds involved traveling to the actual battleground entrance in Ashenvale, Arathi, or Alerac Mountains to join. Eventually this was changed to simply traveling to your major city and queuing through a Battle Master
This was admittedly kind of cool since you could murder the opposing battle master but I don't really miss it

It was nice that most of the quest givers gave no fucks about the current big badguy. they had their own problems

>RPG
>98.9% of the skills are damage modifiers instead of context alterations and general world interaction (e.g. outside of combat)
I'M REALLY FEELING THE IMMERSION BRO
THIS REALLY WAS WORTH THE $15.99/mo + vanilla + expansion 1 + server transfer + character edit + expansions 2-4 tips
Really though this is the laziest form of game design ever, and more than half the time, despite the entirety of the game being dedicated to ball-numbing combat, they never seemed balanced at all.
I mean Hell, just look at the entire JRPG subgenre. 100% utter trash with zero RPing or balance.
Thanks for ruining an industry, Squaresoft. Worse than Bobby Kotick I swear.

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You're a dumbass, retail has been the same old shit for the past 7 expansions
>Stack some meaningless numbers
>Press your abilities in order and repeat
>Boss dies, get slightly higher meaningless numbers

based and wowhobbspilled

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I see you are at the denial stage.
>didnt happen in Nost
That is because it was cheepskates server. Nobody has standards there. If they turned down anyone on that server it would have 0 people on it. Nobody really skilled played on Nos.
>and wont happen in Classic.
That is just you hoping it wont. But i know WoW players better than you. So i hope you got your gearscore addon installed user. You gonna need it.

I actually wouldn't mind at all if Mythic+ was added to Classic. The only place it would become a problem though would be battlegrounds. TBC introduced that one stat that was supposed to help build a PvP defense stat, but ultimately ended up useless, and was revised again in WotLK, which was STILL useless thanks to how utterly broken and effective Armor Penetration was.

I still have wet dreams about all the times I global'd people with my Arms Warrior with Shadow's Edge + Deathbringer's Will.

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Would have been cool if he had done one of those "Whats your game?" TV ads back in the day since it's pretty obvious none of the celebrities featured in them actually play the game. I don't think Cavill was relevant as an actor yet though.

That's what I've always done, it's even more fun than Warrior tanking. Bears and Protadins are kinda simple and boring.

yes and no
the thing is, with perfectly min / maxed groups you can do most raids with like 20 people

for vanilla hopefully sims will free us from class prejudice not enslave us

he used to be a hardcore gamer before he hit hollywood. the only reason he did the witcher was because he liked the games.

If you find out your significant other was "rping" was someone else, would you consider that cheating?

>Thinking anyone will put up with it even in a 5 man.
Sure they can "tank" but nobody groups with a risk. and a paladin tank is a big risk.

No, they're not. And trying to undermine the entire game by saying only raids matter is the stupid fucking shitty logic which led to Retail.

So if you love raids and your fucking awful gear treadmill culture, please stay in your containment game. No one wants you in Classic.

doesn't happen. in years of playing the game, never seen it. and i'll be playing with people i'm still in touch with from the days of vanilla and a guild with them, so it's certainly not an issue lad

This has nothing to do with my reply, stop pretending vanilla classes had depth.

he needs to play arthas in the tft adaptation

>relying on taunt even as a War/Druid
lol scrub

just dont. paladins can tank group quests though

>the journey from 1 to 60 was exactly that - a grand journey that encouraged you to build friendships along the way, and openly encouraged you to explore the world
Lol? Nothing is keeping you from doing that, I met so many people leveling my monk recently that I still talk to after him being 120 for 5 months.
>Hunters had quivers, and required you to keep ammunition (arrows or bullets) within your ammo bags
I will admit that losing this was stupid. Soul shards and ammunition were annoying but they did feel unique
>Druids had relics, Shaman had totems, Paladins librams.
This wasn't added until the ass end of vanilla
>Classes all had unique class quests to obtain spells, mounts, pets, totems, stances, or even weapons and armor
Again...we just had an entire fucking expansion that was at least 30% this.
>you had to train new ability ranks every couple levels, and could even retain earlier ranks of these spells, which could some times be useful (lower rank ice spells were ideal during the Vicidious fight in AQ40 to quickly freeze him, so that melee could shatter him. Low rank heals helped with mana efficiency during strenuous fights and to help avoid wasting mana on over-healing. Low rank frostbolts were excellent for quick snares in PvP or for kiting mobs)
As a healer I will never miss downranking. It was dumb as fuck and I'm glad I don't need 4 seperate ranks of each "heal this nigga" spell on my action bars.
>racial passives, while minor, presented some significant advantages to certain races and classes when combo'd. UD Warlocks were great for PvP due to WotF, atop of also having Shadow Resist (10 pts)
This still matters and is a constant point of contention. Zandalari racials in particular caused a ton of shit.

See

WOWHOBBS SCARLET GRAVEYARD SOLO CLEAR 2019 REMIX
I would be insanely hyped for such a silly thing

>What made it so good?
Be me
Be 9
Like swords
Like warrior
Like 2H weapons
Arms has all these 2H specifications
2H sword has low chance to grant an extra attack
2H mace has low chance to stun
2H Axe and Pole axe get chance to crit
Game chances and its all gets streamlined. Gets real gay
Arms no longer about 2H weapons
Fury turns into the 2H spec

Classic had the ability to allow various builds to be viable. Once WotLK got introduced everything got streamlined hard and fuck you for being unique.

>People are seriously going to follow a step by step guide in order to reach max level as fast as possible and earn the most pre-dungeon BiS gear
>They will only pick the absolute meta classes and specs and religiously follow cookie cutter builds
>All to clear some 100 year old content a few weeks earlier than people that will just fuck around and have fun
I seriously hope you guys don't do this

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You're so fucking stupid.
I was there when WoW launched. I played through Vanilla Raids.
Raids is everything people cared about back then, that and PVP rank for gear

You are looking at vanilla through rose tinted glasses, probably because you actually never made it to raids and were a fucking loser player.

When TBC launched we were still stuck on Twins and I don't remember which bosses we had downed in Naxx. I believe on our faction only 3 or 4 guilds had progressed further than us.
Vanilla raiding was no joke.

people who play the garbage specs are egotistical assholes because they dont play a spec that helps their raid/group and then create drama when they get no loot

I don't like multiple tiers of difficulty. It hasn't been good since TBC. It's funny how BfA Heroic dungeons are easier than vanilla dungeons. When I quit BfA I remmber just breezing through Mythic Dungeons by just spamming AoE on trash and then beating bosses left and right with my reward being 50 Azerite.

he streams on twitch and he plays just as the boomer you imagine him as

There's one guy in this thread samefagging with his hateboner for Paladin tanks, ignore him and move on

>All I cared about was raids therefore thats all everyone else cares about!
Back to retail you go, literally no one wants you in Classic.

>Again...we just had an entire fucking expansion that was at least 30% this.

After years of not having it and it not showing up in the recent one.

>As a healer I will never miss downranking.
Yeah because you're retarded and would rather play a game where mana isn't even a concern

youtube.com/watch?v=bz6P0S-J45M

> its fun

>Follow the guide or you do not raid.
Just accept your faggot "fun" spec aint going near any raids. It is just the truth. Nobody is going to carry your slack.

Nice hyperbole.

>warcrafttavern.com/news/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-level-60-in-wow-classic-an-objective-look/
That feels wayyyyy too long. I am quite certain it didn't take me longer than a month to max for sure.

>Arms no longer about 2H weapons
Wait what? Arms is and has always been about 2H weapons. You literally can't use MS without one. Fury just became a TWO 2H spec with TG.

>Raids is everything people cared about back then, that and PVP rank for gear
Lol no, 99% of everyones time was spent in 1 to 60 leveling characters. Raiding as a whole of WoWs vanilla experience literally made up less than 1% of the playerbases time. It was irrelevant, the ONLY reason blizz promoted raiding is because it was filled with old EQ poop sock raiders who hated leveling and wanted the whole game to be raid focused.

You got exactly what you deserved with TBC/Wrath. Now stop trying to ruin the culture of Classic by thinking anyone gives a fuck about your 'world first raid clear'.

What? Everyone knows paladins didnt become a real class till WOTLK.

You are delusional if you think Classic wont turn into a gear dick comparison contest lmao

The perfect balance of accessibility, effort/reward ratio and social interaction. Excellent dungeon world and dungeon design too.

youtube.com/watch?v=9MNFWhCw8dg

Reminder that he was right.

It was one of the 'hooks' I mentioned for features that never got developed and everything started getting narrowed down. In terms of class-design, hybrid classes had it the worst and IMO Shaman had it the worst out of them. Once it was announced Paladins would become available to the Horde, there was a backlash because the already miniscule number of reasons to bring a Shaman instead of literally anything else would be gone. Jokes were made about how we were getting 'Crusader Aura Totem' to compensate.

Instead of keeping hybrids, Blizz made others even more hybrid whilst making the hybrids more specialist. This led to situations where a Shadow Priest could stop doing DPS and switch to healing and still be viable even if not optimal. Could an Enhancement Shaman? Fuck no. Even an Ele Shaman would struggle more than a SP would; making Priests better at being hybrid than a Shaman was.

I don't think I'll be a Shaman in WoW Classic. I don't think I'll be a healer at all. I was GOOD at it, but unless the guild leader sucked my dick plus 2x DKP each week, never again.

Instead of playing a 20 year old game you know deep down wasn't actually that good (just better than current retail, marginally), you could just play FFXIV instead.

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Paladins were great at tanking Heroics in TBC. At least I never had a problem with them tanking.

>15 minutes
quick rundown or fuck off

Of course there will be. But anyone worth a shit will know how fucking useless gearscore will be. I'll take a guy with a 54 gear score over a guy with a 61 gearscore if I know the guy with a 54 has proper crit, spell enhancement, and hit bonuses.

During WotLK at the peak of the whole GS shit during Ulduar, I ran alts through many Ulduar 10 and 25 pug runs only for them to fall flat after XT-002 despite there being 3500 gearscore checks, because any fucking imbecile with a half-working brain could farm enough hero tokens to get their 2-set and a couple purples. But unfortunately, not every imbecile with a half-working brain could avoid standing in fire, or properly focus the proper council member, or stand under the correct fucking mushroom.

There are people posting in this thread at this very moment that wont even make it to 60, no point to even argue with such delusional opinions.

>Excellent world and dungeon design
Every fight in MC had one mechanic until Ragnaros and most 5 man bosses were just tank and spanks with rare exceptions.

Well i can tell you the time a friend was tanking as a paladin back in the day and every faggot who joined our group left after noticing the paladin was pulling. It was a bad time.

FFXIV is worse than every single version of WoW, including retail. The definition of soulless. Fuck off tranny.

94% of points spent on cookie cutter 'must have' talents, then you had a few like 3 or 5 on speccing flavor, unfun.

>richturpin victims

The dungeons were more than just boss fights, you know.

While I want Classic to succeed and eventually overtake retail in sub counts, I'm 75% confident that most of these are just people reserving a bunch of characters that will be leveled to 25 and then abandoned.

I'd reckon that roughly 2/3rds of the player count we're predicting based off of these server loads will actually remain, with another 3rd remaining long-term.

The community and the discovery. At the time everyone was in the same boat and you were more likely to get up to random misadventures if you tried

That and you had to put effort into stuff and there was a sense of notable accomplishment when you succeeded at something difficult. Having epics / tiers actually somewhat meant something.

Though really it was mostly the active server communities where you had to actually socialize to do shit

I didn't say every dungeon was good, let alone Molten Core. But in general it had by far the best dungeon design, like BRD, Maraudon, Dire Maul etc. They just stopped trying in TBC and later, where everything became Scarlet Monastery.

It had a great leveling experience, and good containment features in instanced PvP and raids.

Unfortunately Blizz shat the bed and rather than expand the 1 to 60 experience they decided to focus on end game content only, which killed WoW almost immediately. They suffered from the usual theme-park problem, making content takes a lot of time but players clear it quickly. Raids were a great way to slow people down from "finishing" so they kept playing until the devs got content done. They should have focused on 1 to 60 and more sandbox features to expand the reuse of old zones and areas. They got stuck in a never ending cycle of releasing end game content, rendering everything before it irrelevant, then having to rush new raids to keep people happy.

Honestly the best idea that was never done for WoW was NG+. You could have kept the server population together, but put in NG+ only content in old zones, both letting you reuse old assets and content while also keeping it fresh by adding new challenges, rather than designing new content from the ground up every single time. Could have also focused on more world content which was at times suggested by they never went through with like EvE-like player owned areas which they could PvP over, rather than instanced shit.

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Aside from the lvl 60 ones, BRD, and Maraudon I cant remember any of them that I found visually exciting, and most groups didn't want to finish the latter two anyway.

>FFXIV
Stop.

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This. My guild on Laughing Skull never got beyond Twins, and only managed to down some trash in Naxx.

The guild actually ended up crumbling and splitting in half after one of the elitist lootwhores managed to drive a wedge between the guild, and everyone ended up splitting according to who they were more loyal to. The crybaby lootwhore, or the stoic guild leaders who singlehandedly held raids together and put people in line, guiding us to victories. It was no surprise when the crybaby lotwhore's guild collapsed and people abonded ship because they saw him and his friends for who they were.

>BRD, Mara, and DM
Add Stratholme and Scholomance to that list and you named all of the dungeons in vanilla that were actually fun to explore. The rest were just boring hallways to get lost in while you searched for the next loot pinata.

Even beginner dungeons like Wailing Caverns had nonlinear designs and optional boss fights. They just had more interesting structures and better atmosphere, instead of being a literal hallway.

¿Por que no los dos?

The point is the playerbase gatekeeps content. It did get to a shit point were in order to do 10Mans you needed full raid gear from 2 tiers above. It was fucking shit time for alts.
You know it will get to the point were they will demand full naxx gear for a MC run.

Is this a good setup for a Protection Warrior?

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Even now i'm surprised they never added a shaman tanking spec, especially after they split druid into 4 specs instead of 3. It's obvious they had original thought about making shamans a tank in Vanilla with their threat tools and ability to use shields. It would be so perfect to have Elemental (Fire), Enhancement(Wind), Restoration(Water), Guardian(Earth) each spec focusing on a different primary element.

The idea of 40 people being isolated in a single instanced is the antithesis of what an MMO is and never should have been put into WoW to start with.

I know this is a hard to swallow pill for you lads but wow always had welfare epics, Lionheart Helm doesn't require a gigantic effort and is better than the stuff you find in raids. Or you could just buy it which is even easier than doing some quest. The Epic tag never meant anything, just accept it

Yeah. For a while, probably up until they were finally stabilized in Wrath, Shaman were in this weird state of identity crisis. In TBC they were okay healers, but were more useful for totem buffs, utility, and aoe healing. DPS was sloppy as fuck and required a lot of effort and gear before they became effective. During Wrath though, Enhance fucking ripped ass, and Resto Shamans were practically broken due to how effective they were. You could just throw a Riptide on the tank, spit a few chain heals, and your party was good. I played Peggle throughout ICC25 Normal raiding. Didn't start sweating until the later parts of Heroic 25, and after they got a few nerfs.

Why? I don't care about the setting and I could just watch the story stuff on Youtube.

I'm a big fan of WC, BFD and Ulda, but I like pretty much all the 5-mans that aren't RFC or Stockades. Deadmines, SFK and SM are fairly linear and uninteresting from a dungeon design standpoint, admittedly.

They had the idea when Shamans were Horde exclusive, but then they just gave everyone Paladins.

i used to make my wife farm herbs and mine while i was at work. i can never ever have any downtime in this game back then...must always be playing...if i came home and she wasn't farming her ass off and my bank tabs and bags weren't capped on materials id yelled at her. with classic around the corner it's gonna happen again. if she gives me any shit, she'll be collecting thorium ore with a black eye.

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>Fury just became a TWO 2H spec with TG.
Arms = Garen
Fury = Katarina
Nah bro you can't tell me that holding two 2H weapons is a fury thing when they were doing nothing but dangling little daggers for their entire profession while Arms are the ones struggling to do the same when they were the ones holding 2H all the time.

The WC Visuals were the same as most of the shit in the surrounding caves and Ashenvale though.....I was just running through a bland cavern filled with snakes and elves.

DM was fun and had some unique boss fights, BRD and UBRS/LBRS were obviously cool as shit, both of the scourge dungeons were top tier...but the rest of Vanilla? I think Uldaman is the only dungeon I actually fucking remember and that's just because the last boss was actually cool, the rest of it was a lame ass cave.

BUT MY EQUIPMENT EPEEEEEEENNNNN

Its sad that these kids still think their raiding meant something in vanilla, barely anyone cared or even registered it happening. Every once and a while some news came out about some guild doing something first and that was it.

Basically everyone just liked leveling.

>Instead of playing a 20 year old game you know deep down wasn't actually that good (just better than current retail, marginally), you could just play FFXIV instead.
I move on to FFXIV
Then I realized I could save money by not playing either.

40 man raids are the only thing WoW has ever done right.
PvP in WoW is broken as fuck. PvE is boring but at least feels epic

You have too many points in Prot honestly, you can spare a bunch of those talents and pick up things like Tactical Mastery and Unbridled Wrath.

>It was fucking shit time for alts.
as it should be. your alts don't deserve to get into raids with people on their mains and still get geared the fuck up whilst they're waiting on shit. nobody who didn't have an alt liked them, for a good reason. it was enough of a real mmo that you didn't ever NEED an alt, you always had stuff to do

By far one of the worst MMOs I have ever played. WoW from level 1 requires some basic level of competence to play, FF does not.

Where is the challenging content in FF? If you say its beyond the first 10 levels then you've already lost.

>40 man raids are the only thing WoW has ever done right.
Its funny because retail has more raid content and focus and yet you're going to play Classic, admitting that raiding is irrelevant to a good MMO since 99% of your time wont be in raids.

Sensing some alt envy there man.

Yes, delicious grinding to distract how shallow the mechanics are!

agreed. but the PvP is why i still play WoW.
if XIV had good PvP i'd literally never play WoW

Which ones can i survive without? The improved skills?

WC is legitimately the coolest looking cave in WoW if you bother looking around.

>not being able to do any role with multiple maxed characters
Why on earth would you do that? WOW's content is too braindead to need hyper specialization. Fuck videogames in general aren't taxing enough that that needs to happen.

>PvP in WoW is broken as fuck. PvE is boring but at least feels epic
World PvP and leveling are the only things vanilla WoW got right. Raids were the one feature which explains the death of WoW. Enjoy your LFG gear treadmill in retail while we play a real MMO kiddo.

>Lionheart Helm doesn't require a gigantic effort
Yes it did, material wise it cost a bomb, you had to get the pattern, or you had to trust some cunt to make it. "just buy it" sure, if you want to pay an even bigger fee on top of what materials and a tip would cost.

They're not. They just require 40 people to pay attention and do their job. BWL's first two bosses, Razorgore and Vael, were amazing buffers that filtered a lot of shitters out of raid cycles, or even filtered shit guilds in general. If you didn't have mages and hunters that could kite mobs while tanks peeled mobs to burn down, you were fucked. If your raid couldn't sufficiently pump out enough DPS to nuke Vael, you were fucked, and were sent back to MC and ZG to gear up, and had to filter out shitters who specced poorly or didn't have their rotations down.

tl;dr - the content wasn't difficult. Managing 40 people was.

>If you say its beyond the first 10 levels then you've already lost.
Aren't you level 10 already just by doing the basic orientation quests in FF14?

fuckoff. wc sucks, but sunken temple is 100/10, a lot of the dungeons are some good shit

I quite enjoyed doing dungeons with my buddies at the time, it was a good excuse to sit down and chat over teamspeak for an hour or two to catch up after not seeing each other for a bit. Strat Live was probably the one we went to the most since it was pretty chill.
Leveling was kinda boring, at least for me back then. Then again I was like 14 and had no patience

This is for the most part correct. Levelling took such a long time in WoW, but was also the most accessible part of the game. It was typical to re-roll as a different race and class to see all the other quests you missed or didn't have access to otherwise.

There were arguments about how Blizzard kept catering to just a minority of players though at the expense of everyone else: almost all new content development was going on the raids. The responses that devs gave to this said a lot: they said that they did raids because they took longer for players to finish and a raid instance cost the same amount of time and resources as a 5-man dungeon did. Note how this ignores the obvious: PvP instances are near-infinitely replayable, yet they had done the PvP honor system almost as an after-thought and we had only 3 PvP 'battlegrounds' introduced in Vanilla. No comment.

Even when TBC came along, the same questions kept being asked and Kaplan breath-stinkingly proclaimed 'Karazhan is our most popular instance' according to their data. The obvious point was missed: Karazhan like all PvE raid instances was locked on a weekly timer; you could only do one unique instance a week before they reset. You could do 40v40 Alterac Valley though all day long; why was this not considered the most-popular instance?

Because any content that was not a PvE raid instance was a blind-spot for these people.

I leave you with a statistic that shocked the devs, encouraged Kaplan to leave and is why WoTLK was a radical change in accessibility for raid-content: Blizzard found only 25% of WoW players who had reached level 60 between 2004 and 2006 had ever even done Molten Core. Only 10% who had reached level 70 between 2007 and 2009 had been inside, let alone completed Illidan's Black Temple.

The raid treadmill was for a minority and it sucked all the future potential out of WoW.

Stacking armor pen in Wrath was fucking hilarious. My MM was unstoppable in BGs. It took me zero effort in 3v3 with Shaman / Mage / Hunter to hit 2500 every season. All I had to do was cram fucking AP gems into my gear. Ridiculous.

>WoW from level 1 requires some basic level of competence to play
No it fucking doesn't. 90 iq mouthbreathers who can't do that aren't people.

You don't really need Iron Will, Anticipation or Improved Revenge, and you can get away with just one point in Improved Shield Block. You actually want Last Stand though, really worth it for the 3-point investment.

>talent is meaningful but boring
>therefore all talents are bad
truly negative IQ post right here. for every piercing ice talent that's boring there's fun stuff like shatter.

Lol wut? ST was a circular hallway full of trolls, followed by a circular room full of more fucking trolls and some dragons. The only thing memorable about it was if someone actually did the egg quest and you got to fight Hakkar.

>and a tip
ahh, the good ol days of telling people the difference between a fee and a tip

No envy, just annoyance at retards
>oh hey we geared you the fuck up, now our raids will go faster for others
>HURR DURR NO LET ME BRING MY ALT IN BLUES SO I CAN GET GEAR LOL IDC THAT IT SLOWS IT DOWN FOR EVERYONE ELSE
fuckoff faggots, you get to raid with 1 nigga, you don't get to hinder everyone else cause you're a loot whore my dude

I raided with Vin Deisel in my old guild back in Classic. He was actually a really fucking chill dude, and really funny.

Hope you're doing well, bud.

So envy then.

>I think Uldaman is the only dungeon I actually fucking remember and that's just because the last boss was actually cool, the rest of it was a lame ass cave.
The level 50 troll instance on the pyramid with a party of NPCs was great too. And I had my most fond memories of instancing in Scarlet Monastery, running instance after instance with a cool as fuck group going from level 32 to 40 in a spann of hours, moving from one wing to another

Ill enjoy seeing you die to Hogger because you think you can solo him.

Welcome to a real MMO.

I was Elemental for a bit in TBC, before my guild asked me to go Resto. Ele was actually quite viable, but I had to resort to a lot cloth gear for SP.

Dungeons are not like raids in any shape or form because they fit into the leveling experience and are not entirely "end game content".

When people say leveling, they include dungeons in leveling. Dungeons are not considered a part of raiding.

>the bosses were HARD. A slight fuckup would result in time costly setbacks.
I agree with everything from except that the bosses were hard for todays standard.
Back then everyone was just awful,Raids back then were legit 30 Retards and a few competent people.
When I started on P-Server 2years ago it was a walk in the park.
There is legit only a handful encounters that are challenging and most of them are in AQ40 or Naxx.

The game is still grindy as fuck though.

Wait you mean you can't solo hogger? Jesus dude you might want to try hello kitty adventure island instead of wow, it seems to be more on your level

>your alts don't deserve to get into raids with people on their mains
lmao nigga, my alts is what kept the raids happening. We had weekly MC raids even way way way after we cleared BWL because our guild MT still needed Bindings of the Windseeker. We ended up bringing anyone we could get because everyone was bloody tired of running that place.

Later same thing happened with BWL. Some people still needed loot so people brought their alts to get geared.

>there are people that think Classic's population won't plummet after the first month, leaving only a small, hardcore base.

Thank god none of you are in charge or finances.

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I mean....I did SM over and over again too but aside from "Arise, my champion!" what was memorable about them? They were the definition of linear.

>The raid treadmill was for a minority and it sucked all the future potential out of WoW.
And yet raidfags still complain and compare everything about Classic and retail to raids. You say you're playing human priest and inevitably some raidfag comes out of the woodwork and says "lol good luck raiding not as a dwarf priest!" as if its relevant to 99% of players experience playing the actual game.

Its amazing their disconnect between their fantasy in which people only cared about raids and the reality: no one cares about raids.

>retard hunter pet aggros an extra enemy outside of the pack you're fighting
>Warrior: no problem, i'll taunt him and start stacking threat on him
>Druid: no problem, i'll taunt him and start stacking threat on him
>Paladin: can you make your pet walk over my consecration... oh he's dead? and the healer's dead too? whoops it's not my fault though, only scrubs need a taunt.

>obvious higher tier enemy
>hurr let me get a couple extra people to kill it easier
ASTOUNDING! BIG BRAIN SHIT RIGHT HERE!

I know your pain bro, i was a frost dk two hand man though.

Are frost mages welcomed to dungeon groups? Or does it even matter was long as the player is good?

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Strat wasn't always a 5 man dungeon my man. Same with UBRS, you used to bring 10-15 people in there. It was a pre-raid instance made to gear up for bigger things

Frost is like the only viable PVE spec since you need iceblock to not die horribly and the first major raid is immune/resistant to fire.

im hoping for that drop. every server is full and i hate waiting to log in

This is because white people won't speak up about things unless they are retarded. If something makes you unhappy and you stay quiet about it you are literally worse than a subhuman ape throwing shit, because the subhuman ape gets his way.

>TBC baby thinks he has valid opinion on vanilla
My fucking sides, here is your last (you)

Inb4 you try to save face saying you played on launch, you very obviously didnt.

Its funny because while you shitpost such a basic mechanic not a single elite in Retail requires you to group up while leveling and that is including Hogger.

Forcing people to group up leads to people talking, playing together and that magical thing which defines vanilla over every version of WoW ever C O M M U N I T Y.

but FFXIV is also worse than it's 20 year old counterpart FFXI. why not play XI instead?

So who is going to join the chad Horde side and relive the best time to be Horde.
>Drek'thar was the most deadly NPC in Vanilla.
Alliance BTFO
youtube.com/watch?v=g0VfOuT3dLE

if you arent braindead and not trying something like holy dps then youre good for any class

right, but they could've just still added shaman tanks, it's not like WoW ever stopped having a tank shortage.

No I was just trolling you for a response. I thought I made it too obvious with the hello kitty thing but thanks for the (You) either way

I can't imagine it being able to retain a huge playerbase. A lot of people buying into the hype have never played it and are not prepared for how cancer the grind can be.

There's so many other games offering instant gratification; it just can't compete. The launch will be insane though.

>They were the definition of linear.
Sure they were, but that would be my only gripe about them. As an undead player finally doing a frontal assault on one of their major strongholds was atmospheric as fuck. Also the instances had great pacing once you got em down imo. I loved the rythm of sneaking through the patrols to sap one of them and then bursting the other mob. I guess you could say I had fun speedrunning the instance.

I'll admit, I don't know much about Paladins because I'm more of a Shaman guy, and we have Earth Shock. I don't think you generally wanna taunt adds that get pulled because it's a waste of a GCD that could go towards a sunder or something, and you can tab sunder to quickly grab a bunch of mobs.

thats literally wow

>When I started on P-Server
Not remotely accurate, as even the people who run private servers tell you. All values are fucking guesses man

Here's what it will be: One half will quit and fuck off back to whatever else is FOTM, the other half will sit there and never leave and will sit there re-rolling characters and chilling for the next 10 years.
That doesn't make it big brained, you don't have to be 140iq just to say "hey you guys wanna help me kill this thing?"

>didnt play vanilla
>actually thinks he can solo hogger
Fucking rekt retailfag

Sorry but discord will ruin that community man. Nobody is going to talk in game other than GOGOGOGOGO. Why talk to randoms when you can talk to your friends in discord? If i had my way WoW classic would ban your for connecting to a discord server with it open. That is the only way to bring back talking.

Did no one notice that they put a picture of the Cataclysm talent trees there?

Yeah, the third best guild on my server and faction were stuck on Twins. The other two got deep into Naxx though. The other faction had a lot of guilds that at least did like 1/3 of Naxx or more. I remember the pre-TBC patch it it was just saddness when you'd be up against a Naxx premade guild in WSG, you literally were better off immediately leaving.

That most of it was wasted shit. You didnt have to break your mind and actually consider what to play

>My imaginary boogieman the post
Yeah no.

Noted and Appreciated.

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Imagine being this dumb. When modern wow can retain the players it does, what makes your retard brain think that vanilla can't retain at least the same number

I wouldn't mind Mythic+ if you weren't punished for not speedrunning it. I have no problem bashing my head against hard content for hours, but I don't like when it rewards autism.

>no one cares about raids.
The entirety of world of warcraft for the past 10 years has been solely focused on raiding. EVERYBODY cares about raids now. Back in the day you were a little 12 year old retard on dialup internet who was scared of the big bad raid instances and looked up to the guys standing around with raid gear like they were heroes.
That being said, the raids in classic wow are so fucking easy compared to modern wow. Im sure any raid will let you in if they dont have 40 people. You wont get loot priority, but youll be able to run around and auto attack stuff

Okay just watch how many people will have discord open. The most you will get is barrens chat full of memes and mankriks wife.

When I first discovered the highest end-game content on release basically made an entire damage school redundant, I realised something.

Blizzard had not designed the PvE content around the player classes, which also meant they couldn't have balanced the player classes for PvP either. The classes had been made for entirely different things, some of which were game features that never got developed. Fire Mages were basically levelling and PvP-only; the closer you got to the top of the PvE end-game, the more fire-resisting enemies there were. Shaman dominated in PvP, but you were a fool if you thought you were going to DPS with this class that had two DPS spec trees and a Druid with worse gear can heal better anyway.

I still miss it though and just want to be reminded of what could have been.

taunt was nice because it was ranged, and as far as i know tanks didn't have any ranged tools to grab people with. Faerie fire feral didn't deal damage yet, Warriors didn't have weapon throw, and paladins had a 10 yard range judgement that was probably already on cooldown since it was part of their "rotation". having something that was only for emergencies like taunt was just nice in general.

Any mage is fine. You're overwhelmingly going to be frost because blizzard had the retard design to make the first 2 raids almost entirely fire immune

I actually think Classic will be far better than even vanilla or TBC was.

This time through people have seen the damage of raiders, minmax and the endless pursuit of "balance". And every attempt by the cancer which ruined vanilla (mainly raiders) can be rebutted with
>Well if you love raids so much go back to retail
After all, retail is literally nothing but focused on raiders and their endless pursuit if instanced gear gratification over immersion, world building and community.

I think after a few months a lot of the population will leave, but that will include all the worst elements including the minmax focused raiders who dominated WoW the first time and its development cycle. We might actually get a Classic+ without any of the end game raid faggotry which ruined WoW the first time.

Hunters could solo hogger pretty easy, then again what can't they fucking solo. You might be able to do it with Warrior if you're good at hamstring kiting and have a swing timer addon but I haven't tried it so I can't say for sure.

>What made it so good?
Having something to look forward to every level instead of every 15+ levels
Gradual character building with visible progress instead of "I get this new disconnected thing in X levels"
Allows mixing and matching specs for more variety and cross-spec utility skills instead of each spec being 3 disconnected "classes"

inb4 "well there's one strict best build anyways," it's like that with modern talents too so it's a non-argument

I actually fucking despise that Fury became a double two-handed spec, and always hoped it would fucking go away. It's so fucking retarded.

also frost was by far the best at leveling thanks to all their slows and shields.

and then phases make the hype real again

Your nostalgia makes you think it was good.

>The entirety of world of warcraft for the past 10 years has been solely focused on raiding.
See All of the lead designers of WoW TBC/Wrath era were EQ raiders, They only cared about raids and they only released content in the form of raids because it was cheaper and easier to make than focusing on leveling.

Statistically barely anyone played raids, no one cared, and you're living in a self sustaining bubble of thinking because you care about them everyone does. Why do you think the barrier to entry for raids decreased? It wasnt because they were too hard, it was because no one wanted to play them and Blizzard didnt want to bother making a real MMO.

There's probably still room to optimize, but that build will serve you well enough. It might be a bit of a slog if you actually plan to level Prot though.

The biggest issue I had with taunt is that it has this weird status as a physical spell, which means it's subject to base resist chance. The range is also pretty short at 5 yards.

Alright let me break this down. The hype that has been building since the announcement has been absolutely insane. We are looking at a launch that is going to be absolutely MASSIVE. We're talking way more players than currently play retail. People that have never even played WoW are even jumping on the bandwagon.

Do you honestly think the antiquated systems can retain the average modern gamer? Absolutely fucking not. They will retain the hardcore fans; a fraction of the launch numbers. Then the rest either funnel into retail or just quit and go back to whatever multiplayer FPS they usually play.

What's left is a small, dedicated playerbase that will play the game forever; that's exactly what they want too. Everyone wins; you would have to be a fool to think otherwise.

Because there was nothing else like it at the time.

Your options were everquest, star wars or.. warcraft. by the time the clones came out you were already addicted

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agreed. Titan's grip should've been a cosmetic glyph that just made your weapon models hueg so the lolsorandumb big weapon faggots could be made happy without ruining the game for the rest of us.

Tastes are different. I fucking loved Sunken Temple. It's in a fucking zone with not many people already, in a fucking lake, fucking sunken. guarded by badass dragons, when not fighting dragons there are dangerous troll patrols. Easy for noobs to get lost in.

Pretty immersive imo

All shitposting aside yeah some classes can do it, but the concept of Elites forcing people to talk and group up was smart game design.

Mythic+ is some of the most retardedly designed shit I've ever seen honestly.

Yeah,the values might be off.But the playerbase has become so much better,it honestly won't be as hard.
When I remember Classic,90% of people were legit keyboard turning mongoloids.
You had a few good people that were ahead of the curve,some years ahead,the rest was honestly just awful.
It still will be grindy and zoomers will wipe in dungeons.But I doubt people will have that much trouble with raiding,when they understand classic a bit more.

oh shit, it was melee range in vanilla, man I'd forgotten that, when did growl get it's 30 yard range? BC?

>small, dedicated playerbase
Wow at its peak had like 10 mil subs
Modern wow in all its dogshit glory has like 1 mil
You're dense as fuck if you don't believe that classic can very easily retain 1 mil

>Laughing Skull
US or EU? Which side?

I know the risks and am fully prepared for the consequences

Remember when Cloth had Strength+ on it?
>Pepridge Farm
Remember Warlocks had Firestones to give them +Fire damage on melee attacks?

Priests had something similar. Remember the official WoW gameplay videos showing Cloth-classes unironically auto-attacking/wanding enemies? This was apparently what they were supposed to do when they needed to regenerate mana mid-fight.

When I play again and players see the member-berries and get confused, I'll be explaining them and their heads will explode with the knowledge of the wasted potential and quirkiness that WoW could have had.

Sweet fuck I am comparing it to launch numbers, can you even read?

Gave you the illusion of choice.

At this point I can't even remember when those changes came in, but my gut says Wrath or Cata. Having a 20 yard "taunt" is my favorite thing about Shaman in Vanilla though.

That is why I loved Vanilla. It was the journey, none of that bullshit "The real game starts at 60". New xpacs began focusing way too much on raiding. But for me I loved exploring the dungeons and world with friends. We made our own fun and didn't feel like we were missing out. Especially since you could make some cool gear with professions. It really was the World of Warcraft instead of Raid of Warcraft it has become.

tg was just the designers being lazy. almost all 2h weapons were strength based and they didnt want to make more 1h that didnt use agility. just laziness and nothing else

I just wish that they gave out more quest items when you were grouped up, having to share them made people a bit antsy when it came to groups because someone could bail at any time once they got theirs. It was a good idea but it wasn't fully thought through

Yes, but your use of the phrase "small dedicated playerbase" is disingenuous or misleading as fuck. It won't be remotely small. Yes, like with every single mmo people will turn up for 1-2 months then fuck off, obviously that's still going to happen, but classic will easily be as populated at absolute minimum as retail on a permanent basis, likely exceeding retail

Yes, people barely raided in 2004. Back then raiding was something only for the elite. It was a cherry on top. Leveling/socializing/whatever was the main focus of the game back then. But from 2010-2019, people have been raiding nonstop. when the retail people switch over to classic, they will want to raid. Raiding will be their goal. Armed with modern knowledge of how to play the game (and not being a 12 year old on dial up anymore), they will be able to get into the raids and successfully beat them. The percentage of people that enter raids will jump up massively

Classic is an old-type MMORPG that tried to make a world in which a game exists rather than a game with a semi-persistent world attached.
Why do you have to go to scholomance to make flasks? Won't that inconvenience players?
Well, that's where they have the alchemy tools to do that kind of stuff.
A lot of the original devs played EverQuest, and EverQuest's slogan was "you're in our world now"

>supposed to do when they needed to regenerate mana mid-fight.
if you had a paladin in the group, they judged wisdom and casters could wand for mana. and wand spec was great for early lvling a priest

and yet they forced frost DKs to dual wield str weapons because they aren't just lazy, they're just retarded.

he's kinda right, discord usage will be like ppl being on smartphones irl

These are from cata, why is everyone talking about Classic? wowe!

It was the best at the time, which was a low bar to hurdle.

It's shit, now. In truth it always was. Just like every MMO.

Hell, I'm playing CoH, and I can tell you without a doubt that it's shit like every other MMO. It's just MY shit.

I really, really want to tank Deadmines as a Paladin. Even just once. I already have a dedicated healer, just need to convince three DPS classes to join.

Will the fast group be enough to convince them or will it be a struggle convincing people to join?

Gave the players a sense of agency; it was like an actual RPG. And then you get the retards who say "they just chose what everyone else took anyways" that isn't the point. That's exactly what happens today on retail. It's about a sense of choice and building your character LIKE AN RPG. WoW retail is a fucking facebook game.

We're all rolling on the TipsOut server right? His guild is likely to get World First for all raids, so you know it's the place to be.

lolret

everything in these posts are watered and casualized versions of what made EverQuest great.
WoW was made by several of the top1% raiders from EQ who thought that's what the game should be about, and so they made their own game focused on that.
This desicion ruined MMOs for the forseeable future.

Not if they let me watch

>World First for all raids
15 years too late for that

I wonder if we'll get any deaths in the first week. Like poopsockers no sleeping through 3-4 days

I don't play since Cata anymore.But what I honestly miss about the old Talent trees,was their ability to play hybrid specs.
Blizzard deleted them because of >muh cookie cutter spec!

When in reality,I can remember from Classic/TBC the following specs:
1.Mage:Elemental,Frost PoM,Pyro Pom
2.Rogue:H.A.R.P (Tbc),Mutilate Prep(Woltk)
3.Warlock:Demonic Sacrifice/Ruin,Shadow Mastery/Ruin,SL/SL (Tbc)
4.Druid:Dreamstate(Tbc)
5.Pala:Reckbomb,Shockadin(Tbc)

I can't remember more at the moment.
They were honestly a lot of great hybrid specs ,especially for PvP.

>responsive gameplay and simplified progression.
Your glasses could not be any more rose-tinted.

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>LFG addon
>Warcraftlogs
>Simming gear
>Streamers
>Layering
home doesn't feel like home any more...

Shockadin was never good, it was a super meme spec that had shit burst which was its entire point

Online Gaming has already been like that for a while.

I used to PUG in counterstrike GO all the time. It was an insane amount of fun before discord was released/got popular. Ever since, it's been utter trash. No one talks anymore. Everyones in a voice chat with their 'discord posse'. Everyone just shits on you instead of trying to work as a team or even just be friendly.

Literally everyone at the beginning of the round just spends 20 seconds snapchatting some random thot or browsing discord memes on their 2nd monitor.

Its trash. This low hanging fruit stimulation has totally permeated the online gaming experience. You're no longer tied together to these strangers, and have to learn to communicate, cooperate, have fun, make banter. Everyones an impersonal mute who only speak up to call you retarded.

It's basically like being a c(_)mbrain but these Low IQ people are addicted to low hanging stimulation of their in group jokes and treat everyone they meet like garbage, swipe left, etc

At this point, the only way to win is to find your own circle jerk, I guess. Fun with randos will never happen again.

Can you guys stop pretending people care which tank or healer they get in leveling dungeons? Its so trivial it doesnt matter.

Vin Diesel,Cavil,Mila Kunis and even william shatner all played WoW.
Shatner even shit posts here.

Healer doesn't matter but tanks should always be warriors. Tell those hybrid fucks to put on their skirt and heal instead of playing pretend

Maybe I should add to my post, no one "commits" to try to be friends with randoms online anymore. Because they're already having this group of friends on discord who they talk to all they time. You get zero of their attention. Expect tons of people in classic wow to be extremely impersonal. The only friendly players will be friendless boomers who don't yet know the "meta" that zoomers all adhere to, which is, treat every random player like garbage.

user, stop. Spec into your only optimal raiding build and get your ass in voice chat, it's raid time

Yes, this was my bread and butter, I felt so immersed with this little thing

I ran bloodthirst prot warr in Wrath and could solo some ridiculous shit.

Based, doing the same though not putting points into illumination til I’m 55
Just get every source of reflective damage available and you are fine, if managed to tank all the way to BWL in pservers just fine, no chance you do aq or nax though but you can heal for those

> and that magical thing which defines vanilla over every version of WoW ever C O M M U N I T Y.

But that ''magical'' thing existed because everyone was shit and new to the whole genre. It will never be a thing in 2019, you will see in a week

it's creates player interaction like no other game. it was challenging and rewarding. it immersed you with it's environment, music, lore, classes. the games graphics left room for imagination before they started refining them it made. there's no other game like it. i'm only talking about classic-wrath btw

Classic talents were D&D 3.5
Modern ‘talents’ are 5e

I'm a zoomer and never subbed to WoW at all, let alone vanilla. I played last year on Lightbringer and the game really isn't that fucking hard, arthritis must be getting to you boomers.

calling yourself a zoomer. fucking yikes bro. that's like calling yourself a straight retard

t. warrior

lol

>no one "commits" to try to be friends with randoms online anymore
some of my current online friends make fun of me for actually adding random people ive talked to to my friends list. how the fuck do you think we met you fucking retard? jesus christ it makes me so mad that people arent social anymore

The pacing was really good. The combat was nothing crazy especially with action games around at the time but the way every piece of gear and upgrade helps made it really impactful. They also last a long time and the enemies are scaled to where you feel that gear.

It's just a perfect fantasy adventure and the online world aspect makes it dynamic.

>Raids last hours (6h+ on each weekend day just to advance was common)
>the bosses were HARD. A slight fuckup would result in time costly setbacks.
behold the power of not being a literal child on dialup internet
youtube.com/watch?v=vxdbQ2mgUfQ

Yea Forums has a disproportionate number of autistic no life poop sockers because there is no where else that accepts them, so you get lots of retards saying you have to do X, Y and Z to ever get a group, its all bullshit

in game absolutely no one gives a damn what you're playing as long as they get something which heals, someone willing to tank (doesnt even have to be a tank class) and the rest are just dps.

> tfw tanked my way to 60 as paladin in multiple servers
> people still think it can’t be done because “muh taunt”
I understand I can’t tank nax but my little anons can’t be this retarded, is this people who haven’t played parroting streamers/youtubers or just Yea Forums being dumb

Ok a question keeps coming up: how will Classic WoW be recieved, by both a newer audience that never played it and those who did?

My posts will be recognisable in this thread by now, I write like boomer on a typewriter. Like a boomer I also have many member-berries and like to be reminded of them and to member-berry others. Member when 'DLC' was 'updates', 'updates' was 'patches' and 'patches' fixed stuff you knew about and happened more often than every six months? Some good member-berries.

Kaplan said he had one regret about design decisions for WoW, though he did not elaborate on how his choices had made it an issue: that rather than having a few favourite abilities on the hotkey actionbar, players had over-crowded their screens with virtually every ability they had for their class. Kaplan had admitted in essence to not finding a solution for this, but failed to recognise how he had caused it.

Combat was much slower then. Also there was a better balance of situational and generalistic abilities. You would rarely regret not having something on your actionbar when a Rogue attacked you out of stealth. You could better anticipate others too: whether that Rogue used Garrotte or Cheap Shot to open up with told you what their spec probably was, if they were with someone, what poison could proc on you; all things to know whether it's better to fight or run. You could THINK more clearly. There was less distraction.

People will find a lot in Classic WoW that doesn't make sense. They'll get over it. People will also find a lot of things missing; which they'll then discover that they don't miss. Classic WoW is a much less mentally-exhausting game than Retail is.

I deadmine tanked as paladin literally tens of times with random groups

absolutely no one gave a shit about having a warrior/druid/paladin tank as long as you held aggro, obviously its easiest for warrior.

Basically everyone aged 23 and younger has a friend group consisting of all their real life friends. They have only ever talked to this group of friends, and never made 'internet friends'. Different people from different walks of life, etc. They literally only use the internet to talk to people they've known since 4th grade. All over snapchat and facebook groups, discords etc.

It's the weirdest fucking thing. The internet changed overnight somewhere along 2012.

>Blizzard saw that their fans might actually be right about something for once
>for once
>once

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>lol no one wants classic, we will just put up a few servers. BFA is so much better right?
>oh fuck all the servers are full
>shit we didn't expect this, there are more full servers than current retail already and the game didn't even launch yet
>oh God the extra servers are already full, need to make more.
>oh Jesus fuck this many people have wanted to play warcraft but find retail unplayable shit
>as a blizzard employee making this game for over a decade only to have people hate what I do daily to be beat by a 15 year old game

When there are more people playing classic 3 months after launch I believe employees are going to get depressed as fucking shit and quit.

>are going to get depressed as fucking shit and quit.
The top developers will, since they are the ones who think retail is a good game

But there is obviously a group of under ranked employees who love vanilla and want that to succeed

More than likely they'll just have teams analyzing the "Classic experience" to see how they can replicate it on retail. I'd even expect them to pull back some quality of life mechanics.

>poisoned weapons in d&d
I houseruled that shit as fast as I could.
>takes 10 years to apply
>wears off after the first attack
>wears off by itself shortly after you apply it
>making poison takes days to weeks based on how much the fucking materials are worth

>the "Classic experience" to see how they can replicate it on retail. I'd even expect them to pull back some quality of life mechanics.
Lol no, raid fags would freak out if any convenience features were removed from retail

You'd gain more people coming back for retail than you would lose.

My DM does this too. What is your obsession with hating poison so much? Anything that isn’t a humanoid is probably going to be immune to it anyway.

You sound like a based DM

My DM would get annoyed at me when I'd say something like "Hey so can I make my own poisons like in World of warcraft?"

>"No, you just buy them from the store"

>okay.jpg

Real sense of progression
And even if there were cookie cutter builds, you felt unique

Also, you could do some goofy shit

>A WOW clone
>Good

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That's the default rules.
I obviously buffed the shit out of using poison and crafting anything.

Lol no, you wouldnt.

The difference between vanilla and retail is huge, its like comparing RS to EvE.

No one wants to play retail, the game is dead and buried.

How efficient is assassination for leveling? I was thinking of playing around with poisons before endgame this time around.

>being that DM over something that isn't even strong let alone gamebreaking
just why user? poison is supposed to wear off after the first hit anyway, everything else is just unnecessary as fuck nerfs out of some hatred of fun.

Sub is the best rogue leveling spec but all the p server wannabes think combat is awesome.

Prep and reduced vanish CD will literally save you 10 hours of corpse running. Leveling a rogue is harder than leveling a warrior.

Literally the problem with retail is because its got all these QoL features. People left because the game got too easy and too streamlined, not because of something they can't undo.

Its not that they were perfect
But rather that current one is very fucking dull

>Leveling a rogue is harder than leveling a warrior.

Unlike the new talents which are forced cookie cutter by design, the old talents had room for experimentation, yeah everyone did cookie cutter builds, but there was room for deviancy, and in vanilla having a few points in an off meta talent could change the mechanics of your class completely.

Also if you're one of the people actually playtesting the 'meta' builds, its satisfying when you find the best builds for that patch and could share it with your friends, or keep it to yourself, for example most people in BC didn't know that after you reached a haste breakpoint fire destro became more powerful then shadow destro

> Leveling a rogue is harder than leveling a warrior.
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH

no

Leveling a melee class with no self-healing in leather is harder than leveling a melee class with no self-healing in plate. Yes. Correct.

Warriors even get hamstring kiting. Rogues have to rely on poison procs.

its okay because of remorseless, relentless and sf
but you need to use daggers which will slow you down

>>bosses were hard
>I am now applying sunder to generic fire elemental boss, DPS please begin your 1 button dps rotation

rogues didn't suffer from ganking in pvp servers
rogues could disengage at will from any fight they were losing
rogues could melt any single target mob

If you ever played in a pvp server the first point was huge

Because it was a branched off, more broad version of Diablo (II) skills. You would use most of your abilities in a spec at least situationally, and the tree let you buff up the specific one you really liked the feel of to use as your main attack.

>rogues didn't suffer from ganking in pvp servers
LOL

rogues can kill their mobs faster for most of the game, plus they can stealth through groups instead of being a warrior and praying to god you dont accidentally pull others

>evasion
>vanish
>kick
>kidney shot
>sprint away
>gouge
>blind
>sap

you must've sucked back in the day

>hamstring kiting
not a real thing in retail due to melee leniency.
Stealth, sap, cheapshot, blind, evasion, sprint, vanish. Rogues can easily 3v1 quest bosses and safely escape, where a warrior would need a party. Rogues also scale better without gear than warriors because of eviscerate and poisons.

One of the things the devs for EVE online found was player retention was higher on people who got ganked earlier in their Careers than those that didn't.

You have to suck so fucking bad if you get ganked succesfully as a rogue

Rogues are one of the easiest targets to gank. Vanish CD is long as fuck.

maybe dont use vanish to kill mobs?

yeah maybe if give em the good ol rouge treatment and jump em in middle of a fight

>Vanish
>Mob is now attacking the ganker
>Open up with a 4 second stun, followed by a 6 second

Go be retarded somewhere else.

Youre so obviously a private server tryhard who never touched vanilla, its actually painful to read your post

Once you get kidney shot rogue is piss easy to level.

A lot of people don't watch streams for the game content, they watch them for the streamers reactions and the chat. As long as there's some background noise and some rant or the guy going "HOLY FUCK DID THAT JUST HAPPEN????? FUCK MY LIFE!" people will tune in even if you're playing fucking minesweeper.

>rogues could disengage at will from any fight they were losing
vanish never even worked against mobs because vanilla wow was a jank fest. and it was incredibly easy to dot a rogue so they couldn't vanish in a pvp skirmish. Not to mention most rogues wouldn't have vanish up as a CD anyway.

sap is only for humanoids, which is nowhere near even 1/3 of the mobs you'll be taking on as you level to 60. No one but private server retards think blind is CC. It is extremely expensive and you'd rather take a corpse run and a repair bill over dumping a fadeleaf.

Evasion and sprint and vanish are 5 min CDs without improved CD specs. And sprint does fuckall if youre dazed. Cheapshot is an opener its not a CC. The only pros leveling a rogue has is you can gouge an enemy and bandaid yourself for 5% of your HP before your anus gets pounded through.

Wow so helpful

and what do warriors get?

Yeah, i was HUGE into 5-man content for a long time (LOVED heroics in TBC). I'd gladly take part in Mythic+ if it was just hard vs. oriented around speed.

we were a lot younger with more free time and fewer responsibilities

Plate

Nothing, really. It was just a casualized Everquest that came out at the right time when normies were getting into video games.

I started february 2005 when WoW got released day 1 in Europe. Made it all the way to Naxx back then. I still have my character proudly displaying Cromatically Tempered Sword, Cloak of Concentrated Hatred and Tier 2.5 Shoulders. Didn't play on private servers.

Rogue is an easy class. It isn't hard to level because you can just stealth and vanish. Other classes were envious of us.

Warrior was the most pain in the ass to level, but once you are geared in BWL gear, you are an absolute wreckingball that was worth the payoff.

But then again, if you know anything about vanilla: it's a rogue, mage, priest and warrior game.

If you were inconvenienced enough to be force into using Vanish and then stay in hiding until Vanish was back up again, you were essentially ganked.

>>Druids had relics, Shaman had totems, Paladins librams.
It took blizzard way too long to add those as a druid player. For the majority of vanilla, the 3 classes would just start the strat quest to get the the egon's blaster quest item just so they could have something in the slot.

>plate is more useful than stealth and dozens of ccs
ok so you are just senile got it

You leveled starting day one. I picked a pvp server in early 2006 that already had an existing, matured population of raiders and PVP guilds. So leveling in that environment was brutal. I agree warriors have it bad as well but rogues on a PVP server have it rough too. Although I will concede, on a FRESH server, rogues have it easier.

>sap only works on humaniods
>doesnt even work half the time
>blind is expensive af
>gouge doesnt work if you have a dot on the mob
>sprint doesnt work if you get dazed
>sprint and evasion both suck ass until you get to level 40 or whatever

rogue is much easier from even just a pve standpoint. there are so many quests that rogue can solo with smart cc and cooldowns that a warrior must group for.

>rogues scale better without gear thanks to eviscerate and poisons
Poisons not so much, deadly is problematic becuase it breaks gouge, instant doesn't really proc enough to be good, and you'll definately be wanting to have crippling applied at all times so you can kite and pool energy

And 1.12 eviscerate isn't static damage, it scales with AP, meaning its really shit for leveling.

the unique priest racial spells were also something that added a ton of flavor but were eventually removed right?

Leveling on a PVE server at all is ez baby mode for any class. The classes all just take different amounts of time

The only time you ever need crippling is on like 2 elite quest, gouge kiting is fine without it

it was just more casual copy of everquest
not too hard not too easy
ideal difficulty

FRESH CLASSIC
is going to bad for both
lots of people rolling rogue and warrior
good luck getting gear with this competition desu

Not really, gouge can be dodged parried blocked or missed, and you don't know how fast mobs can be.

Honestly poisons aren't really worth buying for leveling except crippling because its cheap as fuck.

When it came to the talent system specifically, it gives you more customization options. In reality, there's always the meta and optimal way to build something so you don't really get to choose all that much.
What it did do however, was give each level meaning and a sense of progression, since you were climbing down the tree one point at a time and could see, and sometimes feel the sense of progression.
Removing the Classic tree was a mistake, introducing another one would have been fine, if they kept the old one too. They wanted each point to feel more impactful and a lot of the effects in the new talent tree were more dynamic.
What they could've done is keep both talent trees in and tweak one into a passive (classic style) and the other into an active / dynamic tree, that way you get both the sensation of incremental progression, as well as that big boost / power spike every five, ten, to fifteen levels, granted that already existed for some classes in Classic to an extent. For example when a Retribution Paladin unlocked Seal of Command at level 20.

What actually made them hard to level? I swear my uncle had an easier time with his than I did with my druid.

>warriors have no cc
>warriors have no cc
>plate repairs are expensive as af
>warriors have no cc
>warriors have no sprint
>no plate until 40, and no defensive cooldowns outside prot
And plate does nothing against magic damage and isn't meaningful enough to save you from multiple mobs unless you are massively overgeared. You will die and have the most expensive repair costs.

Nigger, clothies have fierce competition as well.
3 fucking classes rolling on cloth, and then you wil have meme specs like Moonkin and Ele shaman rolling on cloth as well.

Better yet, when the game came out people were amazed at how quick and painless leveling was compared to previous MMOs, where not only was it much easier to get your shit pushed in, but there was heavy exp loss for every death and sometimes de-leveling. If I had fuck-you money I'd be tempted to start up a really old-school MMO at a loss, just to watch people on social media throw themselves off a cliff when they get eaten alive in the game.

Mate I've leveled a rogue to 60 about 7 times and I am telling you gouge kiting is all I ever need

I'm not talking about server type illiterate. I'm talking about solo questing. Rogues get many escape tools, Warriors have none.

We talk about the hybrid tax. Well mage, warrior, and rogue have gear competition tax. Although rogues have to compete with asshat druids for gear. Fuck druids.

That was the intent at one time. Shamans and paladins were meant to offset each other and be able to sort of fill similar niches. I still look back fondly on 2h enhancement. I never forgave blizzard for enforcing dual wield exclusivity. I eventually gave up hope and rolled ele after playing enhancement from vanilla to right about the end of wrath.

>TFW arcane spec and out dpsing all the faggots in raid gear wearing blues

>infinite amount of depth

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having a hard time deciding between mage and warlock

I know it sounds stupid, but the quiver mechanics really made me happy. I hate infinite ammo projectile weapons in MMOs. At the very minimum at least force me to cast a "craft ammo" spell or something. It just feels so good to have a defined physical number of arrows/rounds/etc.

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I only leveled a rogue and warlock back in the vanilla days. Both were pretty damn easy. What was the hardest/most frustrating shit to level? Solo holy priest or something?

>Fuck druids
I'm glad to see this mantra lives on and will continue to be used by every rogue having to deal with those bastards rolling on OUR SHIT.

Was respecing talents very expensive in classic? I wanna fuck around with dumb builds like this in open world pvp.

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vanish is a nice escape tool. The 2% of times when it works

>Want a particular dungeon item? Keep farming the 5-person dungeon everyday. You'll get it eventually! Want a particular raid item? Save up the DKP and/or let your raid buddies know!
Now I've never really tried a MMO before, but that doesn't seem fun to do a thing over and over again for the chance of a thing. It just seems, I dunno, malicious?

youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

spec into combat maces, mobs barely touch you, fucking bandage or canibalize, easiest fucking leveling there is

as long as you're buying a new wand every 5-6 levels as priest, it's effortless to level

You dot,shield yourself, and wand things down, never having any downtime.

I'm rolling a warlock but I do not recommend it unless you know exactly what you're getting into. Mage is the way more fun caster class, for 99% of people. Instead of melting faces in PVP, unleashing demons in westfall is more fun for me.

starts at 5g, increases by 5 each respec until capping at 50g

MMO players are no better than gambling addicts

It was. Only retards defend this pointless tax.

fuck off benji no one asked you

youtube.com/watch?v=THPKlHMe-vQ

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Hah, since it's so ingrained that everyone tries to chase WoW and be a "WoW killer", I wonder how long it'll be before every fly-by-night shifts to trying to be a "Classic killer". As for the QoL, might be. In fact, for anyone that doesn't remember, the plague of item level vertical progression that has rotted the bottom out of the MMO genre all started with the Gearscore addon, and is entirely the fault of the players that championed its use. The more twinking like that that can be gutted from the outset this time, the better off Classic will be.

can't save you from being bad and using it incorrectly

Wouldn't you just spec shadowpriest and then respec holy at 60?

Lame. I like the idea of being an incredibly hard to kill pain in the ass.

doesn't it start at like 10s or 20s? I remember respecing my lock and it not even costing 1g

ive played warlock since vanilla. warlocks rekt face in pvp. SL is ridiculous but I understand wanting to make them seem less desirable since this is shaping up to be World of Warrior/Warlock-craft
played both classes extensively and cant pin point what I want to do out the gate atm

you can do that, you just gotta commit.

honestly i think if blizz offers any kind of support or community polling that'll be the first thing to go. it's one of the few things i fucking hate in vanilla.

Kino

I think the first one was free, then 1g, then 5g, and +5g after that

Warlocks do destroy in PVP, but its through fear and dots which isn't as, you know, in-your-face as slamming a pom pyro in someones face

holy shit get good retard

Ah, I figure but everyone plays XIV and it looks fun somehow.

>want to roll warlock
>wanted to roll warlock since i stopped playing retail 8 years ago
>no one else wants to roll warlock
>streamers come out and tell everybody about how amazing warlocks are
>everyone plays warlock

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just add dual spec and restrict it to being changeable only in ins or on a long cooldown in the open world.

why the hell would you even go holy while leveling?
get spirit tap + wand spec then go shadow

>describing my leveling experience 15 years ago
>lmao git gud
ok let me just tell myself from 15 years ago he was a shitter brb hopping in time machine

Burn a man with an iron, and he'll hate the person that branded him. Burn a child with an iron, and the child will grow up to wear cooler-looking clothes than anyone else as he roams the country killing branders and staging the destruction of iron factories.

Can you still heal properly in dungeons as a shadowpriest? I'm legit curious because 1-60 shadow seems a bit more fun than just putting (most) everything into your healing and spirit gear.

All the zoomers are going to roll warlock, and quickly be reminded why it was consistently the least played, non-hyrbid class

To add to this. They used asymmetry in a cool way. UD shadow priest has the best debuff racial and UD make it hard for alliance warlock/spriest in general but alliance get paladins who are defensive cleanse machines which make warlock and spriest harder for horde in real group pvp in some ways.

The asymmetry ends up such that horde DoTs dont work as good and Fear doesnt work as good for alliance. It isnt perfectly balanced but it's close enough to work out while staying interesting

yeah fair enough
ele shaman would be sik too desu
yeah im not liking this feel either but hopefully most of them drop off. as it goes along im sure more diversity will come into play as people settle into what they want to play rather than what they think will be good.

This post... I feel like I'm missing something.

Why can't you just go back and get healer gear afterwards?

this

nobody plays Warlock because your rotation is literally 2 spells (shadowbolt and life tap) and more often than not you're just a summon bot and you have to waste tons of bag space / time farming shards before every single raid

>Classic
I think you're missing a key bit of info in the separation of identity structure between these two games

SC2 has way more viewers again, about 4x more than SC gets on big events

LoTV has been good last few years

The tax is especially retarded when you remember that 90% of the classes who would regularly respec ALSO suck shit at farming, so it doesn't even function properly as a gold sink.

Your dps is absolutely abysmal and you can legit get killed by a single mob 100-0 if it RNG dodge parry misses enough of your hits in the early game. You also have very few ways to save yourself from a bad fight save 30 minute cooldowns. Rogue is equally as bad when fighting but has plenty of CDs to turn a shitty fight. The only real big save Warriors have is fearbomb BUT if the feared mobs fly into more mobs you're in even more trouble.

yes you can, you can even heal UBRS as shadow

priest is the strongest healer anyway

Honestly the pvp and pve gameplay is just boring. I love the class and am rolling a warlock. But still, the class is literally designed around DoT'ing people and running away like a pussy, like you make them run away.

Raid rotation aside, it's just not mechanically very interesting for most people.

"2 button rotation" is such a meme because EVERY class is simple as shit in vanilla PvE.

I remember when TBC came out I started a priest and I went back and forth between speccing holy and shadow while leveling. Holy was worse of course but not that much worse.

Warrior is going to take more endurance and more social skills. You know you will never be shit in a 1v1 where as warlock at the high end is a top tier 1v1 class neck and neck with the best (only topped by a rogue with EVERYTHING including. Farmables and he gets lucky, or REALLY good spriests)

In BGs warriors will always roll with help and warlocks will usually be asked to hold down shit alone (as will hunters).

You probably already know all this though

I played paladin Mc/bwl then fury warrior thru AQ/Naxx in vanilla. Everyone says its gonna be warriorcraft but I'm betting tons of these people give up. By the time people get to Naxx having 8 fully ready dedicated competent warrior is still going to be a challenge

At least with Mage you have various other spells you can use, not to mention managing your different sources of mana regen

Warlock you're literally just spamming shadowbolt and life tapping 90% of the time

Anyone alive back then knew this to be true. Compare it to Lineage 2 and Everquest.

Personally I dont even want to be warrior this time but I'm debating about going it again because I'm so fucking sure that people will end up needing warriors despite all the screams of their overcrowding

The only good thing about Classic is that there's no titanforging/warforging, getting a bis in slot item is actually achievable, and it's a good feel when you get it.

>bis in slot
best in slot in slot

>bis in slot
silly ding dong

Also Mages have the AoE job the entire raid. BWL in particular the whelp rooms are mages work. Not like it's hard but yeah

>At least with Mage you have various other spells you can use
Just like the Warlock, and you won't be using any of them asides from frostbolt, just like Warlock. Limited debuff slots cuck so many classes out of more interesting playstyles since you have to divide fucking SIXTEEN slots among 40 players.

If i recall correctyl, there's a dropoff of raiders in most guilds during late AQ40 progression and early Naxx back in the day.

I wonder if that will be the same this time.

>tfw bear tank
>tfw literal pre-raid blues are bis for the entirety of vanilla

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You are entirely reliant on gear. If you are fed twink gear a warrior can be easy. But if you aren't it will be awful. You will never have enough money between reapirs, upgrades, skills, and saving for your mount. You will have to fight everything 1v1, pulling two mobs is really dangerous, three is certain death.

>started as a druid when i first played
>maxed out my warlock
>started as a pally when i played on a wrath pserver
>maxed out my hunter

Should I even bother planning what class i'm gonna play? I feel like no matter what I'll end up maxing something completely different.

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that's the worst part of modern wow really, you never get a piece and go "wow, this is literally the best"
well, maybe a toss up between that and the infinite grind mechanics

That's every class in vanilla.

You only bring one mage to BWL, AoE is done by everyone.

Its a themepark MMO where the focus is leveling which is fun to play. TBC was the same.

Wrath was not, and just so happens to be when the game stagnated and then started dying. Its because it became raid focused, and raids were always a niche experience most players didnt enjoy.

Except the mage is designed around the debuff limit and class stacking with winter's chill and ignite. Mage's become more effective the more you can bring.

Yea. The other day I did a hard key and got the shield I needed, but it didn't titanforge or proc a socket, so I felt like shit. Sadly, they say they like the tf mechanic and will keep it in the future.

Same logic applies to warlock. Still doesn't mean you bring more than 1 mage/warlock anyways because warriors are superior in every single way.

>caring about class or races beyond what you find fun
Bunch of fags

>HURR IT IS LE EVERY CLASS XD

confirmed never played vanilla

Nice to hear. I never played healer in vanilla so I figured I'd try it now but and had gotten in my head that holy was basically the on viable tree and shadow was just a meme. Good to hear I've been wrong for the last 14 year.

>You only bring one mage to BWL

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>REALLY good spriests
but its the other way round?
spriests are good but lower skill capped then locks

That doesn't change that fact that you're literally only spamming Frostbolt. You don't change anything until AQ, at which point you're just spamming fireball instead with the occasionally Scorch. Vanilla has a lot of things going for it, but complex/involved rotations and complicated boss fights have literally never been one of them.

>Same logic applies to warlock
Except it isn't at all? Every mage can share one or two debuff slots. While Warlock's can't even use theirs.

There will be. Naxx warriors will have 2 sets of gear to repair and need consumables out the ass. And the DW furys will have had to survive competing against shortsighted Rogues for loot for 3 fucking raids.

It's part of why I rerolled back in the day. It was easy to get a paladin to heal wearing a mixture of gear from where the fuck ever. Getting a warrior to go through the trouble of being good at that level is a lot of work. And you want 8 of them. Oh and you want to get lucky in early Naxx and get lots of tank loot cause each tank (all 8) needs taunt resist set bonus

Oh and Loatheb takes 80-120 shadow pots per serious attempt. Which is the hardest pot to get in the game.

For the record I only say rogues are shortsighted because when you get to 4H you dont need 8 DPS who are immune to pulling aggro (Rogues) you need 7 DPS warriors who can also become tanks

Let's see class rotations then:
Mage: Frostbolt
Warlock: Curse of Recklessness, Shadow bolt
Rogue: Sinister strike, Eviscerate
Warrior: Bloodthirst, whirlwind, heroic strike
Hunter: Aimed shot, multi shot
Shadow priest: Mind blast, mind flay

Absolutely no reason to bring more than one.

The more warlocks you bring the more uptime you will have on imp shadow bolt, so yes it is so.

They were pretty horribly balanced. really something had to be done about stuff like that eventually. the available buffs alliance had compared to horde were insane. BoK/W/M, and Fear ward were way better than the shaman equivalents, or at least easier to use since shammy buffs were per party.

warriors being superior is a private server meme. you need ranged dps and gearing a raid of almost entirely dps warriors is awful for progression

Yes, because Blizz are filled with morons who think flavor is bad.

No it's not a private server meme. Warriors are simply superior in vanilla and that is that. You don't need ranged dps, gearing people in vanilla is not hard, especially warriors where most items that are bis until AQ are obtainable outside of raids.

>warriors are superior in every single way
You are a complete retard

>Rogue: Sinister strike, Eviscerate

and /gkick

>Arguing over viability in a niche mode no one plays
Lol fags

isnt warrior BIS rank 14 shit?

I am the retard for stating facts? Interesting.

Preferably. Rogues are useless, rather replace them with warriors.

Weapons? Sure. Rank 10 is more than enough, if you are retarded you go 14 but that makes no sense in Classic due to the timeline being what it is.

>Winters chill
Is passively built through casting frost spells. Does not change your playstyle in any way asides from designating one mage as the cuck who has to spend his points on it.
>Ignite
Is passively applied and does not change your rotation. I assume you meant (Improved) Scorch, which is something you either cast once in a blue moon to maintain the debuff or never cast at all because you once again have a dedicated fluffer to do that for you

>Low rank heals helped with mana efficiency during strenuous fights and to help avoid wasting mana on over-healing. Low rank frostbolts were excellent for quick snares in PvP or for kiting mobs)

In all of Vanilla, I never did get an answer as to if there was a reason to use a higher rank sheep. It didn't seem to do anything and it was impossible to tell if it broke easier or not.

Your retarded opinions aren't facts

Higher rank lasts longer. You use lower ranks in PvP to save mana.

It's not my opinion. It's fact. You are trash at the game stop posting retard.

I'm pretty sure polymorph has a chance of breaking early, like how sap used to with the heartbeat check mechanic.

I would assume higher level poly lasts longer on mobs, and in pvp has less chance for a heartbeat check. But this is my pure speculation, never played mage

>all of my pals have left or moved on to irl
>I have seen many guilds rise and fall have many stories to tell
>just know some people here and there that will play but I dont really care much for them
>for once I am truly alone

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you'll make new pals, fuck the normies and their kids and their fancy TV house, all you need is digital crack and some wizard wakos to have a great time in Chadzeroth.

>it's a fact because I say so
Kys mouthbreather

You are garbage at the game, stop posting retard.

Human Rogue: Aprello
Night Elf Druid : Ursa
Gnome Mage: Alalazam

Cant decide on what to play

>alakazam**