What Went Wrong?

As well as in Alexandria, against the Bandersnatches. Though I do agree it was a shame she didn't permanently join the party.

Nothing, it's the best Final Fantasy.

Did some e-celeb recently shit talk 9 or something? Only a zoomer would imply it's a bad game.

>FF8
>at its absolute peak

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Trance.
Extremely limited amount of character customization and low difficulty overall.
Idiotic balance decisions like giving thievery extremely low steal %
Garnet is one of the worst female FF leads.
Beatrix being an enormous mary sue snowflake you can't even defeat.
The excellent atmosphere and sense of a journey of first 2 discs completely disappears later.

>absolute peak

Genuinely want to hear your defense of VIII.

>low difficulty overall.
Hey it's almost like it's an FF game

FF7's superbosses wipe the floor with Hades and Ozma.

I like garnet a lot, the rest of these are valid complaints. Through in Amaro eing a terrible addition as well. Its still my favorite video game though, despite the flaws.

>what went wrong
almost fucking nothing. it's the best jrpg on the psx and a contender for top 5 in the genre.

>yeah well my superbosses can beat up your superbosses

painfully slow battles

It's a shame because everything else is amazing. It's one of the comfiest games I've ever played but every time I get the urge to replay it I remember the 10 second black screen battle transition and the glacial battle pace.

I even bought the steam version as I read there was fast forward. There is, but the fucking transition doesn't fast forward, and it furthermore highlights how fucking slow the battle are when your party is standing still IN FAST FORWARD doing NOTHING except waiting for the background code to tell them to act.

Tetra master is fun. Just a shame there's not really any reason to play such as prizes/rewards (other than the tournament part)

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With Hades, yes. Ozma, not so much. Ruby and Emerald both work in patterns so once you figure that out they're honestly really doable. Ozma is truly random and counters a ton. His meteor/curse combo easily kill even a high level party. It's more luck based.

after confronting Garland and getting into the lore of consuming worlds the game lost its soul. It turned into ME3 after you beat Kuja.

but replaying it again as an adult and not a 14yr old kid I must say that Kuja was a good villain. His self destruction into madness wasnt used as well as it could have. But making him go further would have made him a seph clone... so I get it why they made his story more sad and human.

Hades isn't a superboss. He's just a hidden enemy.

I've always felt that last bits of the lore we got within Memoria should have been implemented in disc 3 and Pandemonium be the final stretch of the game. Just feels so much more like a proper final dungeon, both in its design but also thematically.

This game just puts the nail in the coffin on how shit the ATB system is. FFX had the best combat in the entire franchise

Backstory 1/5

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Backstory 2/5

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there are mods that fix that

Backstory 3/5

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ugly furry designs that turned most people off when it released right after 7 and 8

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Nothing it was the last good game in the series 5-9 was the golden era it was downhill before and after.

lmao

Backstory 4/5

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Steiner is canonically stronger than Beatrix before the start of the game? That's hard to believe.

Backstory 5/5

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Very little. It was the swan song of classic FF and one of the best in the series.

Played it a year and a half ago. It's godly.

The writing is trash. In what fucking world does Beatrix go from being arguably the most evil person in the entire cast, even moreso than fucking Kuja, to immediately being a good guy that no one has a problem with.

Ignoring the fact that she happily carried out orders to genocide an entire race of people, took pleasure in their suffering, happily pursued the subjugation of her nation's former ally and friends, and is basically an evil psycho-bitch the entire way through until Zidane goes BUT THE PRINCESS!!!1!1! and she immediately goes "ohhhh, riiight, the princess... haha, whoops! my bad guys" and becomes a good guy.

You bury someone like that under the prison or just plain execute her, right next to the monster that gave her the orders. And Alexandria would be treated worse than Germany after the Treaty of Versailles as soon as the world is beyond the "world about to end" stage of things. The fact that there's a scene saying people are praising Brahne, remembering her as a good person, despite the fact that she ordered the genocide of an entire people and the subjugation of another nation all for the sake of personal power and pleasure, also comes across as incredibly fucking tone-deaf.

Like, I get it... Final Fantasy games and JRPGs in general are usually pretty broad strokes with their things, but you have to remember that FF9 is contemporary to games like Blood Omen, Soul Reaver, Deus Ex and fucking Planescape: Torment. I can't take FF9's plot and characters seriously, they're like pastiches rather than actual character arcs and it's all incredibly shallow. Every single character can have their entire development arc summarized in two or three sentences.

And then Necron just... shows up at the end of the game because crystals (of course it's crystals, it's always fucking crystals, Final Fantasy obsesses over crystals more than new age homeopaths do) or something. It's like, YOU THOUGHT KUJA WAS THE FINAL BOSS BUT IT WAS ME, DIO NECRON!

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Game Story 1/5

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Someone didnt play the game

Game story 2/5

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Ending felt like a cluster fuck and battle pacing is really god damn slow but it's still a good FF game. Just a shame about everything that came after.

Game story 3/5

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>Ending felt like a cluster fuck
It has one of the most extensive FF endings

Ozma>>>Ruby weapon>Emerald weapon and Hades isn't even a superboss. Ozma is a random ai that can spam curse and meteor back to back and is a cheating mother fucker that Jack's the ATB bar every time you input. Ruby and Emerald weapon are hard but 99% of the fight for them is just set up and planning.

Game story 4/5

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Some of the worst pacing of any RPG. A bulk of the game is completely on rails, with you having no control over what characters you even play as, much less where they go and what they do. Combat is too...damn...slow. Writing is shallow and generic.

Game story 5/5

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Pretty much this. It's baffling just how much shit gets swept under the rug and never followed up on. She didn't even get a sort of redemption arc, she just flipped a switch and everyone was fine with it, even the ones most affected by it.

It's 11 years prior to the game's events. Info all comes from the official Ultimania.

That's how JRPGs work dude. Remember Magus?

Nothing. The game is a 9.5/10 for me.

It wasn't FFV, FFVI, or FFVII

She could have killed the party twice and didn't. She didn't genocide an entire race, that was Brahne and she clearly didn't like it.

>She could have killed the party twice and didn't.
Neither did Kuja. She didn't spare the party out of some goodness of her heart, she did it because its a jrpg and it has to have Unwinnable Battles where the villain doesn't bother to finish you off...for reasons.

>She didn't genocide an entire race, that was Brahne and she clearly didn't like it.
She helped Brahne commit said genocide.

FREYA IS MY WIFE

>what went wrong
It's a great case for what was really wrong with multi-disc games, disc 1 is bafflingly short - full of cut scenes, disc 2 is most of the plot in the game, disc 3 is demonstrably an homage to previous titles (FF1, FF5) and disc 4 is JUST the final dungeon...
But the worst thing the game does is simplify vendor tables in disc 4, preventing you from synthesizing the last batch of items unless you prepared and bought everything at the transition from Disc 3. Never was a fan of Necron, either.

why fight buying into the canon of the universe this hard? Whether the establishment is flimsy or not, your points ARE addressed several times throughout the game.

She helped Brahne conquer Burmecia and later Cleyra in an attempt to collect the jewel. If you paid attention, as soon as she claimed the jewel in Cleyra, the mission was done and she left. Brahne decides to then blow it up with Odin, just to see if Kuja wasn't bullshitting about the power of the eidolons. She opposed both the use of eidolons and black mages.

Chocobo hot an cold is a boring tedious Minigame. Shame it holds the treasurehunt hostage.

And Tetra Master has to be the worst card game design I have seen in my life. And I have seen a lot. A random upon random mess. Absolutely horrible. FF8's TT was MILES better, but sure, that one had problems too.

Also the combat is sooooo sloooow. And what is up with the boring specials?

Tetra Master isn't random, it's just convoluted, the numbers all have meaning.

Slow combat.

I know that the numbers have meaning. But it has an absolutely random equation behind it. Sure, higher numbers mean odds are slightly better for you, but it is still a random mess. I have lost card battles between 7-9er cards against 1-3er cards and vice versa a LOT of times.

At least Triple Triad has no dicethrow behind their numbers.

random just really isn't the word for it, friend.

to much soul for bugmen like you

Please enlighten me then, buddo

picking within a range isn't random, for one. But beyond that the metric is predictable if you understand how all four values work.

>picking within a range isn't random

It tried to be happy and go back to the "fantasy" part of Final Fantasy (and was amazing because of it) instead of featuring all the edgy stuff 90s kids craved at the time.

Playing it now, just got past Alexander getting BTFO

It's pretty enjoyable so far, but not in the top 5

tetra master isnt *that* random and it shouldnt really come down to it if you understand the numbers (which is one of the actual problems with tetra master, it explains jackshit). triple triad is definitely way better though. too bad the rest of 8 blows ass

take your autism pills, you're getting yourself mixed up because you apparently can't stand being wrong.

Necron.

>couldn't steal anything

As someone who loved this game
>Trance was unironically the worst "limit" system ever created
>Thievery having like a .002% chance of working
>Missables crammed into literally every corner of the game
>The fucking Excalibur 2...like why was this even a thing?

If card with number Z has a potential range between X and Y, that's randomisation.

Randomisation within a limited set is still randomisation.

Its the last playable FF, X and onward is pure thrash.

IT was supposed to be a spinoff, but the real FFIX got moved to the PS2 and delayed, so they renamed that to X and made this spinoff game into IX to fill the gap

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>Its the last playable FF

>playable
It's more of a movie than arguably any other title in the series

X was better than IX in every objective way

-literally 30 seconds of waiting before a fight starts
-best fighter (quina w/ blue magic) fucks off for a whole disc
-few surprises (you can get okay gear from stealing but you can usually buy it anyway)
-half your status affects are kind of worthless (has stop ever worked on a boss ever in FF?)
-A lot of cool places you only go to once (but this is probably true for a lot of RPGs, they all have the issue of not reinventing an older place to keep interest)
-only vivi and steiner get double techs
-Freyja's jump is POINTLESS
-vivi fucking DIES

The rest is alright. I like skills being linked to armor until learned and needing skill points to activate. It's more straightforward than any other system they've done.

>She opposed both the use of eidolons and black mages.
She only opposed it because she wasn't getting praise or attention from using them, she even says as much.

>Picking within a range isn't random
That is literally how RNG works....

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*That's how bad JRPGS work

Okay user, you can larp as right, you just have to realize you're now far away from your original point.

running an rng within narrow, situational ranges doesn't mean the card games mechanics at large are "random"

Nothing. t's better than FFVII and VIII

Only things off the top of my head is it was too easy, I prefer to pick my own jobs for characters/party members, and some characters completely outshined others many times over. Other than that the setting music and pacing were aight Garnet was qt and Vivi arc was fantastic.

I'll take that as you conceding the argument then.
btw, different user since the greentext because that was just an insanely retarded take

So is Zidane pronounced "Zidaen" or "Zidahn"?

FYI, that wasn't me who made those points. After the greenposter I stopped replying because we will not be able to convince each other of our views on this one.

FFVIII raised the bar so high IX fell on its face trying to reach it.

Sure, if you want to ignore

>Steiner duels with Alexandria's best swordsman, Beatrix, and wins.
>and wins.
holy shit really? did Steiner's skills just get super rusty over time because of complacency or something?

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Ziddinn

So, no one defending C:H&C then? Good!

>In what fucking world does Beatrix go from being arguably the most evil person in the entire cast, even moreso than fucking Kuja, to immediately being a good guy that no one has a problem with
this is has been a thing in Japan for fucking forever, remember how Vegeta from Dragonball went from being a genocidal maniac into a decidedly heroic family man? its been a thing in Japanese writing to redeem ridiculously evil characters, no matter what attrocities they committed, fucking Golbez waged war and devastated the entire world in FFIV yet he is seemingly forgiven in the end and explicitly forgiven in the sequel.

Better than the VIII shit but I won't defend it.

No, it just means it pervades card interactions in general. Which is a significant portion of a card game.

She says "my troups would have been more than enough to take Cleyra". She claimed the usage of eidolon to be "ridiculous". ie. out of proportion. Beatrix didn't come to these places to commit genocide, she comes to collect the jewel, as per Brahne's (and indirectly Kuja's) orders.

But like said it has a very minimal impact on strategy if you bother to understand the system.

I personally love the Chocograph hunting on the world map. But Hot & Cold definitely could have used some fine tuning or something, it gets dull fast.

The second pronunciation would be more accurate. So say my frog friends, at least.

Vivian's original ticket wasnt a forgery, little rat kid stole and scalped his ticket while Vivi was jump roping for hours and hours.

>tfw the entire minigame is a chocobo faceplanting the ground for a solid minute
the only saving grace was the music, the rereleases added another by adding the speed up, which doesn't affect the timer, so you can be done with it quickly, it makes going back to the PSX version fucking hard

A system (which that poster also points out) that's inadequately explained.
Also, playing around it doesn't mean it no longer exists as a mechanic.

>suddenly Necron
I never understood this. What the fuck was that?

What do you mean playing around it? Is knowing the rules of monopoly "playing around the rules?" And you're really wagging the dog a bit by forgetting the context of this stupid argument. No one is pretending it's adequately explained within the game.

Necron is a being that's summoned forth by Kuja's wish of destroying the crystal thus ending all life. It's basically a big throwback to Cloud of D/Zeromus/Exdeath. He exists to return the world to zero (void). Supposedly he was going to be foreshadowed and fleshed out more, but they were already pushing it with space limits on the PS1.

context?
>A random upon random mess
>'not random'
>except random
>'nuh uh, not random'
>erm, random
>okay random b-but context

>look mom I'm arguing in good faith

I know you're here Garnet-user, you autistic sack of shit

>I-I'm not wrong! You're wrong!
Go ahead, what context are you alluding to? You must be able to state it.
I foresee wandering goalposts

It would have been nice for any of it to been mentioned. Kuja should have fused with an Eidolon or something. Japsn love their multi stage bosses it would have fitted in.

My only real gripe with the game is how slow the transitions and combat are and the PC port didnt adress this at all. in fact they hardly did anything but add cheats to the game while ruining the hud.
And how Zidane is pretty much useless besides melee attacks his kit (that is not trance) is completely useless or just too random/weak to make it work.
Aside from that i dont really have any real grip with the game, some characters could be fleshed out more or at least explained a bit better like Necron who is up for interpretation really, he pretty much ended up being the physical manifestation of Death itself and fighting him represented the characters will to survive after Kuja obliterated them with Ultima or Mega Flare or whatever.

Why, the original post I made. If you're having trouble, I'm saying that it isn't random and that there is actual basis behind the 4 characters on each card.

>Tetra Master isn't random
Once again, randomisation within a limited set is still randomisation. Next!
>it's just convoluted
No argument there
>the numbers all have meaning
Or here.

This changes nothing in the context highlighted in Defending something because you like it is fine. Denying fact is retarded.

>slow transitions
at least the rereleases added an option in the menu to skip the camera panning around the battlefield, instead going right into the action, though the action itself is also still quite slow paced and the way the action bars fill and queue commands is janky as all fuck, could have used a touch up
otherwise, its still my favourite FF game, the steam version with the moguri mod is genuinely pretty great and makes the high quality character models not clash with the backgrounds, only thing the mod needs is to downscale the UI, since it looks like shit, as it was optimised for phones

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what are you gonna do with all that straw youve gathered up in your hands then, nigger?

Nothing, it's a solid game.

Should have saved my previous image, but for you TM dudes. TM is unfortunately pestered with that final step in the battle (which is the randomized part). If not for that, it would have been a solid working minigame.

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>moguri mod is genuinely pretty great
Just a shame the widescreen is so inconsistent. And that it doesn't work with any other mods.

I mean if we're being 100% serious as to what hampered the game, funds were siphoned from its development to make that terrible movie.

>straw
You're the one arguing something not in question.
Your entire point hinges on the 4 numbers meaning something, which nobody has denied or argued against.

>There is, but the fucking transition doesn't fast forward, and it furthermore highlights how fucking slow the battle are when your party is standing still IN FAST FORWARD doing NOTHING except waiting for the background code to tell them to act.
You can turn off the background transition.

Absolutely pathetic :)

its inconsistent because the game wasn't made with widescreen in mind, sometimes it can look really nice, other times is plainly obvious the game was not meant to support such a feature, I just keep it off for the most part
>And that it doesn't work with any other mods
also that, which is why I really want to see a UI adjustment added to it

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I don't consider the 'random' elements in the card game to be all that random when the sets it pulls from are tiny (sometimes as few as 5 numbers) and highly dynamic. I don't really care if you want to split hairs on that when we agree about it otherwise.

>fantasy game
>doesn't want beast races
found the idiot

it was a good mix of two shitty analogies, don't lie, friend.

FFIX with moguri, ui re-scaling and the Beatrix mod would be ideal. And cheat engine to workaround hot&cold/frog hunting

>not liking frog catching
its like you never want to be a gourmand

to be fair, the mod comes with the cheats disabled, but you can enable them by editing the ini file if you want, the speed up doesn't fix chocobo hot&cold, but it sure lets you blaze past it while reaping the rewards
also I like the frog hunting, you can also edit the value of each frog with the moguri mods ini file as well, so if you want to skip it and reap the rewards, you can do so easily

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Give the man the frogs he deserves.

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it had the best OST though, alongside Chrono Cross.

it was comfy

40 frogs is fine, 50 at a push but 99? Fuck that, I did my time on the PS1, I ain't doing it again

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The card minigame is trash and you can't date Freya. 3/10.

there needs to be way more images of dagger's ass

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It can be done pretty decently if you're smart about it. If you leave a male and female behind in the ponds they respawn faster. Respawn takes about 5-6 hours per marsh. You can start it up from disc 1.

Too much soul.

Whoopsie daisy, Zidane said, as he went up the ladder.

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Nothing besides needing some better optimization for its loading times.

how could one ass be this perfect?

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>I don't consider randomisation to be randomisation
This is why you're considered retarded. Disagreeing on this isn't 'splitting hairs'. Calling it random is factually accurate, denying that is delusional. It's part of the game and that's fine but holy fuck be honest about what it is.
Having the temerity to call somebodyelse's argument a strawman on top of that, whilst propping up one yourself and implying they weren't arguing in good faith was nothing more than projection through and through.

Do everybody a favour and go take a literacy class.

>take a literacy class
>to learn more about set theory and statistics
interesting take friend

How torn up do you think she was over vivi's death

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>low difficulty overall.
>Idiotic balance decisions like giving thievery extremely low steal %

kinda agree

>The excellent atmosphere and sense of a journey of first 2 discs completely disappears later.
Kinda agree as well, despite this FFIX is my favourite. The atmosphere and characters during the first 2 discs really feels like an adventure, one of those that stay with you.
Fuck I need to play the game again.

Oh, it's not for the card game randomisation, it's for the reading comprehension that you're so woefully lacking.

Even if you utilize all 4 marshes as efficiently as you can right from disc 1, you can't get 99 frogs without excessive grinding. I remember the first time I did it, I'd already beat Ozma. I'm not saying it's a bad minigame but it takes way too long to get the top level.

You're not very good at this, user.

The most perfect pillow in the universe

Coming from somebody who can miraculously misconstrue a simply stated argument?

Is that even a question?

Not one you'd understand.

I know people seem to complain about him being surprised in this, but wouldn't you be at least a bit surprised for the first nanosecond of touching such an incredibly soft ass?
A really dedicated modeler, I'd wager. I still remember that one article that had an aside all about Garnet's tush.

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Care to explain it then, for the slower crowd ITT?

Oh no, I don't blame Zidane's reaction whatsoever.

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Could
Won't

It just didn't do anything for me, it's just.. there and okay I guess? As someone somewhere in this thread already must have mentioned, the battle speed was terrible: it ruined all the fun: not just the speed, but the transitioning into it and well, the time it took for you to do a command: and the character to actually do it. They spend a lot of energy on appeasing graphics whores, but gameplay got forgotten.
(the story isn't interesting either,, but, fair enough, not as bat-shit as other FF's -- it's just not that interesting either)
I don't dislike it though (I absolutely hated FFX, it made me quit the series, so haven't played another since 2000) and I do appreciate the effort that clearly went into it... it's just not that much fun to play. FF7 and FF8 are loads more fun. I guess that's a bad argument, so let me rephrase -- I just don't find it fun to play...

Oh, but user, you have so much to offer everyone else, could you just do it?

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see

a bit embarrassing, if you ask me.

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The game and story are amazing but the character design is awful.

they really should have had a character with a musket, amirite?

It just did what Jrpgs do. It existed and was terrible.

Disagreement.

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Sucks that the guy has pretty much given up on that comic with her and Tifa. I was looking forward the trance-form buttjob and Tifa's doing a paizuri limit break on Cloud.

>I start playing FF9
>FF9 thread appears

Spooky

Maybe Yea Forums just likes you, baka
also, are you going to go through your entire life slouching like that?

soft

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law of attraction.

Same senpai

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The writing. It starts out fine but gets steadily worse as it goes on. The switcheroo shit with the multiple antagonists near the end was just fucking terrible.

>multiple antagonists
Who exactly?

Ok niggas who's this mikoto exactly? Did i mess the memo?

I only skim dialogue and play drunk, so Garland caught me off guard.

>Water slide leads straight into a rock
Fat Chocobo is gonna get someone hurt.

Ah okay. The real antagonist are the people from Terra in the story really, then again they're just trying to survive. Garland is created to do their bidding. Kuja only exists because Cid VIII created airships and brought peace, ironically.
I like having layers to the game's social structure of villains. It's doesn't follow the black and white good guy vs evil guy pattern in this game.

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I wonder if their kid would have a tail too.

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Mikoto is the girl you meet in Terra, she leads Zidane to Bran Bal and later to Garland.

Final Fantasy X

Here's a question then: Did the other planets Terra absorbed before Gaia have life on them too, or were they just primordial worlds that could be easily assimilated? If they did, then fault lies with the people of Terra for knowingly genociding other races to propagate their own. If they didn't though, then fault lies with Garland, who decided that the way to resurrect the sleeping Terran souls was to interrupt the cycle of reincarnation on Gaia and inject the Terran souls into the crystal instead, so he needed warfare and destruction to further the cycle.

Garland was also the one behind creating the Genomes and especially his "Angels of Death", Kuja and Zidane. Kuja was created to be a weapon and unlike Zidane and Vivi, who grew beyond their original reasons for existing, embraced his role as a weapon to the very end. If there was something worthy of being destroyed Kuja wanted it gone, culminating with him trying to destroy the original crystal and end all life in the universe. Brahne's evil came from Kuja, and Kuja's from Garland. But did Garland's come from Terra, or was it his own evil?

they would have a tail and horn

One of my favorite FF soundtracks

Would make the most sense. Wonder if Zidane would stop at just two kids. Given Garnet's tight bod, it'd be hard not to want to breed her as many times as possible.

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why were these adorable fucks so strong!?

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>Everything after disc 2 is shit; story, characterisation and gameplay wise
>15 seconds of loading for random battles..

It's implied that Terra has assimilated planets before, but generally when their crystals were still very young and easy to take over. Whether they had life on them already or not is unknown. The reason Gaia was picked is because Terra's decline went too fast and there was no other young planet to assimilate, so they attempted to fuse with the relatively young planet of Gaia, which then failed. According to the Ultimania, the Terrans give Garland the task to complete the fusion, so it wasn't Garland's choice per se. The only way to complete the fusion would be to weaken Gaia's crystal, which means killing its souls and blocking their return to their crystal.
And I know Garland created Kuja and Zidane, but the reason he does so is because nations rise above the mist and the many wars between nations stop thanks to Cid the VIIIth and the airship fleet he produces.
Kuja also doesn't embrace his role until the actual end. He wants to free himself from Garland have his own identity, it's why the entire first 2 discs (and a bit of 3) is spent hunting for the jewels of Alexander and other eidolons. He's seeking anything to overthrow Garland while still pretending to serve him by causing war.

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Shitty character design and generic high fantasy setting. Stupid fucks shouldve kept it dungeon punk like the previous 2 titles.

Yea no.

Nothing but the slow battles. Absolute kino game.

the games biggest issue was that several characters don't have particularly conclusive character arcs
Freya is highly important during the trek to Burmecia and until the escape from Alexandria Castle, after that, she has absolutely no relevance to the plot, her story about Fratley is completely absent until the very end, it really should have come back in the story during disc 3 or something, because Freya, while a cool character, felt like she was just...there after Cleyra
then we have Amarant, he gets a solid character arc, but its relatively bare bones compared to the others, but the real issue is that he joins far too late, giving him less time to be fleshed out
Quina is mostly the comic relief character, but even they could have had some more done with them, their gimmick is mostly that they are a goofy nuisance and this never changes
the rest are well fleshed out and developed, but those three could have used some work
I almost wish Freya dropped Fratley and hooked up with Amarant, part of me thinks that would have been a cute twist at the end

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Actually the peak would be VII, X and XII.

>that one smut comic where Garnet catches Zidane and Freya banging, gets caught and then spanked by Zidane before both girls ride him

I frequently see that said about the game, but I've never really felt it was an issue.

Freya's arc is concluded at that point. See knows Fratley is alive, and travels with the party to stop those that destroyed her home, hoping that Fratley remembers he one day.

Amarant does suffer a bit from when he's introduced, but I don't feel like there's a ton more to add to his story. Maybe a run in with a previous bounty hunter who betrayed him?

Quina, as the character they are in the game, was never going to have a real arc. They really would have needed a different character altogether at that point.

>I like garnet a lot, the rest of these are valid complaints.

Garnet:

1) Runs away from home because she's afraid her mother is trying to kill her and take over the world

2) Risks the lives of many, many people and causes numerous deaths along her flight from the castle (yes, I count all those Black Mages on the ship as deaths)

3) Upon arrival in Lindblum suddenly proclaims that she refuses to believe her mother is evil and trying to take over the world, despite proof of her unprovoked attack on Burmecia, the slaughter of Black Mages, and the attempts to kill the kidnappers

4) Runs all the way home because apparently she wanted to just talk to her mom

5) Through her stupidity, she gets captured and tortured. Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action. That is why I hate Garnet."

That’s the nostalgia filter talking.

>Millions of people die from the results of her entirely preventable course of action.
If she had stayed home, Kuja would have eventually had Brahne extract her eidolons either way. Her running away/Cid ordering the kidnap makes no difference in that.

to be fair, Brahne wanted the Eidolons for power, regardless of whether she extracted them or not, its clear her Black Mage armies would have decimated every kingdom regardless, we see them slaughter Burmecia, they could easily do the same thing to Cleyra and Lindblum, its also possible Kuja could have just kidnapped her from Lindblum and saw her arrival at the castle as saving him the trouble, if Brahne needed the Eidolons, she would have gotten them, regardless of what Garnet did, her staying in Lindblum Castle could have possibly caused even more casualties, especially in the city itself, since we see that the black mage army had little trouble getting in
Garnet running off to reason with her mother was dumb as fuck, but its not like her staying put would have changed all that much

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>so I get it why they made his story more sad and human.

Sad and human?

His motives amount to just being a unsympathetic, spoiled brat with serious special-snowflake syndrome, and when he finds out about his mortality (which didn’t really make much sense, why did Kuja think he was immortal?) it becomes a temper tantrum, and the game pretentiously acts like he’s a “deep and tragic” character.

Instead of drawing inspiration from a Shakespeare villain, Square apparently decided to base Kuja on the attention-whoring snots who get rejected at their auditons to play Shakespeare villains. Overlooking the man-thong, the effeminate hair tosses, the mincing, the temper tantrums, and the embarrassing attempts at poetry, there just isn't much going on with this guy. He's like that one insufferable drama [REDACTED] you knew back in high school: he always has to be the center of attention, he never shuts the hell up even when he has nothing worth saying, and even while doing something villainous, he acts like he's standing in front of a full-body mirror and practicing for his role as Scar in the spring semester production of The Lion King.

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>says Shakespeare 20 million times
>alludes to the lion king instead
big think

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Why would Garland command Kuja to attack the Summoner village after the stunt he pulled with Zidane? Garland shouldn’t have let Kuja anywhere near the Invincible.

Quina was comic relief, but s/he was actually quite wise.

No, VII, X and XII were the peak.

Then the writers made her into a God-mode Sue.

I guess its more her arc resolves really quickly, she joins just over the halfway mark of disc 1 and her arc concludes early on in disc 2, so its over and done with much earlier than everyone elses, Amarant is kind of the same, joins at the end of disc 2, his arc ultimately concludes 2/3s of the way into disc 3, but at that point, the game is nearing its conclusion.
I accept Quina as the comic relief load, they didn't need much development, though I feel they could have had a bit more interaction with some of the others, we almost never see what Steiner, Freya or Amarant think of their antics (nor Garnet now that I think about it, its mostly Zidane, Vivi and Eiko)

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>which didn’t really make much sense, why did Kuja think he was immortal?
Other genomes are 3000 years old at this point, might be why.
I kind of agree. The game and booklet state that Garland, despite Kuja's behavior, wants to continue to use Kuja as an igniter of wars/destruction. But realistically, he should have known Kuja was a loose fucking cannon from that point on.

>What Went Wrong?
Amarant's model looking like shit.

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Shilling.

Zidane's qt sister.

This.

based and brain damaged

also FFIX came out after the PS2 launched

It came after VIII.

unbelievably based, you can marry my daughter and inherit my lordship, my castle and my serfs when I die

I wish futuristic sci-fi was abolished a genre

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Final Fantasy has had cartoonish villains before, but Brahne takes it to a whole new level. Watching her for too long can make you physically ill.

FFIX wants to be taken seriously (despite what some people might claim) with all the drama, but Brahne does not fit in to realism, she is a moustache twirling cartoon villain and is way too evil, with the unrealistic motive of “she’s just greedy”, “Final Fantasy? Whatever” had something to say about that:

"Well, then I just exploded. Nooo, no, no. So do not be easy, she left behind a moral event horizon has already bombed when Claire robbed and ordered to chop off the head of Garnet. It is not greed, it is excessive and does not motivated violence, which is no excuse and can not be - and this pathetic attempt to beat the drop of compassion for this dolboslonihe looks shabby."

(I apologize for the bad English, this was originally Russian that I translated from Google Translate)

Real Life dictators did not do the things they did because of simple greed, it had to do with screwed up philosophy and bad up-bringing, none of this which Brahne had, as was described in the game, Brahne had a really good and productive life and was kind, good ruler, the loss of her husband and biological daughter were recent things but not enough to turn you into a war mongering sociopath that wants to murder her family members and friends (and that has nothing to do with "greed"), especially when you still have your identical adoptive daughter, there is nothing Kuja could have said to have instigated that, she's just another Emperor Gestahl/Shinra/ clone whose only purpose in the story is to serve as a generic one dimensional antagonist who you know is just going to get stabbed in the back and die, and after all she did, that is really unsatisfying.

What should have happened, was that Beatrix should have been the Queen (we'll get to her in a second) and Garnet's adoptive mother (she used to be one of the Alexandrian Knights along with Steiner who had feelings for her, but later became Queen after marrying the King, Steiner of course still loved Beatrix, but still watched over as a knight, which also explains why he was so overprotective of Garnet, she's the child of the woman he loves, so he sees her as a daughter, which makes it all the more tragic that the girl he thought was the princess was adopted, and the real Garnet he knew died all those years ago) and she would be a deconstruction of previous "Disk 1 Final Bosses" (Gestahl, P. Shinra and the galbadan President).

The whole reason she was waging war is because she was convinced by Kuja that Alexander could bring back the dead, such as her husband and biological daughter and the desire to bring them back got the better of her, which lead to some actual interesting conflict between her and Steiner, and instead of getting killed off, she tries to make up and attone for what happened and gives up the throne to Dagger (and Zidane). Brahne could have still been a character but as a nice if eccentric noble who helps the players.

It was nice to see her hair actually grow during the game, something that doesn't happen a lot of times. Once a girl cuts her hair short it's short forever, but Garnet's returns back to its original length like hair should without haircuts.

Now contrast that with FFXII which was more mature and realistic, with the antagonists being complex and ambiguous.

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>Remember Magus?

Magus’ reasons were more understandable, also unlike Beatrix, he wasn’t an unbeatable Mary Sue with a robotic dual personality and some other unbelievable bs, his actions don’t really get glossed over and he joins as one of the main playable characters.

Overrated.

Lack of sympathetic characters. And no job system.

Other than that, pretty awesome game.

She did make it look good, which is sometimes tricky when it comes to girls and short hair.

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>It tried to be happy and go back to the "fantasy" part of Final Fantasy (and was amazing because of it) instead of featuring all the edgy stuff 90s kids craved at the time.

It’s ironic how people claim this considering for all the whining about VII and VIII being "emo", suddenly the nostalgia freaks worshipped IX for being Lighter and Softer like the old games. In IX, I almost never saved anything. Most of the plot was my party showing up in the nick of too late and watching people die. Or in the case of Garnet, being a bloody moron and creating the deaths in the first place.

It’s cheap shock value and IX tries too hard, especially when the game forces you to make all your previous gameplay completely pointless as with Garnet’s above mentioned idiocy. IX’s payoff for the player is really unsatisfying.

why was he so perfect?
he didn't deserve the cruel fate life dealt him, but he carried it until the end, unironically the bestest boy

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Game forgets about Freya and Amarant isn’t really given enough reason to be there. Other than that it’s great.

No.

>Zorn and Thorn begin extracting her eidolons, mythical creatures of her summoner heritage that she was unaware of possessing.
Okay where's that faggot from that thread recently that kept claiming Garnet knew she had eidolons but "didn't use them because she was scared" with his bullshit.

At least he got to live a rich life, however short it may have been.

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7's plot was clearly rewritten in total at least 4 times, I could go into detail but if you re-assess the uneven pacing and arbitrary plot turns with that in mind, it makes an abundant amount of sense.
8 is a game of mixed failures and successes, I know why people like it but I played that shit on the PC port when it came out and hated it. 9 being the best one isnt really a hot take.

>Or in the case of Garnet, being a bloody moron and creating the deaths in the first place.
She doesn't, though.

To fair, Golbez was really just being controlled by Zemus, Zemus was just acting through Golbez.

As for Vegeta well, he does get an epic beat down and humiliation from both Freeza and Cell besides Dragonball is pretty over the top and doesn’t take itself that seriously, if it makes you feel better you can look at Team Four Star’s abridged series that mocks this.

He got married to best girl and had kids, so he did pretty well for himself.

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the game deals with the themes of death and doesn't sugar coat the sheer levels of destruction wrought by the Eidolons, we walk though Lindblum and we see first hand the aftermath of both an Eidolon attack and the Black Mages, we see an old man blinded, lamenting that he will never see his grandchilds face again, we see a child looking for their parents, who are likely dead and we see some Alexandrian soldiers boasting about their superiority and some who are crushed by the destruction that has happened, we even see entire races be brought to the brink of extinction (Summoners and Burmecians)
the game has a lighter and softer art style and overall tone, but the game is very bleak and dramatic in its portrayal of war, the game has more than its share of dark themes

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Then why did she laugh in Cleyra when the others fell for her trap?

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He's a boy who grew so far beyond his original status as a weapon that he was granted eternal life in heaven. Vivi earned every single bit of good fortune that came his way. The only thing I wish happened was that he could've at least lived to see Zidane come back.

Shame Zidane wasn't around for his bachelor party

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With Cecil at the beginning of the game you were shown the conflict with him and the red wings with them debating if they should really do those actions, and when actually attacking Mysidia, actually showed hesitation and afterwards immediate remorse, there was actual build up, and unlike Beatrix, didn't act like a total jerk wad or brainwashed tool when doing it (I don't judge a person based solely on their actions but also largely on their attitude and motives, which is what I think all people should do), with Beatrix there is no build up, the scene on the Red Rose with her post-Cleyra I felt was a complete ass pull, then bam! Suddenly when you're back in Alexandria, she's her jerkwad self again, then afterwards as this one person put it "through the span of three dialogue boxes, changes from a cold blooded war mongerer to a loyal companion"? Yeah, no, that's not how it works, it's really cliché.

Plus as Garnet's "protector" she's really bad at it, she didn't show any concern when Garnet was shot down on the Prima Vista, nor did she question why Brahne wasn't sending her to "rescue" Garnet (which you would think she would try to do ASAP) but rather seemed more interested in waging war and instead sending murderous creatures after her that would do more harm than good and cause a lot of collateral damage, Beatrix didn't mention or ask about Garnet's safety or whereabouts when encountered in Burmecia, even though she should clearly be able to recognize some of the party as the people from Tantalas that "Kidnapped" Garnet.

Your last point happens in pretty much every JRPG once you unlock the flying vehicle.

Only after Cleyra does she ask about Garnet, even though you think she would immediately return to Alexandria to check up on Garnet's welfare rather than be focusing on waging war with innocent Burmecians and Cleyrians, even back in Alexandria she didn't notice that Garnet was in the room until she was literally pointed out to Beatrix (after forcing you into a pointless battle that did nothing but flaunt her god mode status).

Not only that, but apparently she was amongst the people who didn't believe Garnet when she said her mom was going crazy and starting a war, even though Beatrix was clearly taking part in this and no doubt had briefings from Brahne on said subject, so she had to know that Garnet was on to something, all this makes it REALLY hard to sympathize with Beatrix, what would have been better is if she instead took the place of a certain other irratating character, Brahne

at least he gets to meet his kids and maybe even play the same mentor role to them as he did to Vivi

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It's an iffy point because you CAN level Garnet up enough to actually use them before they get extracted, but their MP cost is so high you might as well not bother. And if Garnet truly didn't know, then why would she be able to use them before they were extracted?

>In what fucking world does Beatrix go from being arguably the most evil person in the entire cast
All she did was carry out orders and even before her change in character, she questions Brahne's orders. Her character is similar to Steiner in which both learn the value of thinking for themselves rather than mindlessly take orders.
>And then Necron just... shows up at the end of the game because crystals (of course it's crystals, it's always fucking crystals, Final Fantasy obsesses over crystals more than new age homeopaths do) or something.
In defense of Necron, his fight plays an important role into the story thematically in how explores the game's main theme of death and dealing with your inevitable. Necron is death itself. Necron believes that all life exists to seek death. But through
>Every single character can have their entire development arc summarized in two or three sentences.
Not true that's reductive reasoning and misses the point.

>Vivian's original ticket wasnt a forgery, little rat kid stole and scalped his ticket while Vivi was jump roping for hours and hours.

Yet that was never implied in game and doesn’t really go anywhere, since Puck just drops out of the story.

She saw the military plan they had worked. She's a general, this is her job. She doesn't realize at that point how wrong the stuff Brahne is doing is yet. You have realize Alexandria has been in war with Lindblum/Burmecia countless times prior to the game's events. War is nothing new for the Mist Continent whatsoever.
I do however agree with in that she should have remained her "this is getting too fucked up for me" attitude since her scene on the Red Rose. Her scene in Alexandria afterward kind of contradicts her move to the good side, that should probably have been cut in fairness.

Steiner probably allowed the newfound authority get into his head. By the endgame his skillset is superior to hers and he can Trance.

>What Went Wrong?
The game that came before it and the game that came after it

Necron was really just a cheap out of nowhere excuse for Kuja to "redeem himself", the "symbolism" was just a cheap excuse by the writers to try and justify his appearance.

Instead of the thing where the final bosses transform One-Winged Angel style with Kuja following suit, we get this "giant space flea from nowhere" final boss whom is never properly explained what he is or where exactly he came from (with what the Ultimania stating just feels like the writers flat out made it up) and his only purpose is to serve as a lazy plot device for a incredibly unsympathetic character to pull off a forced and contrived "redemption" or more specifically to try and make it seem more sensible, and being a "representation of the games (unclear) themes" is just a lazy excuse and distraction from what he really is and dosen't make his appearance matter.

What’s that supposed to mean?

FFIX threads are gonna have a Barry here too huh?

>better like Necron who is up for interpretation really, he pretty much ended up being the physical manifestation of Death itself and fighting him represented the characters will to survive after Kuja obliterated them with Ultima or Mega Flare or whatever.

That’s just postmodernism.

See

Gameplay =/= story. You might as well ask why there's an airship in FFVIII when Zell can literally run around the planet in gameplay.
He just made a joke. Although there is cut dialogue from the game that has Vivi stating he got the forged ticket from a moogle.
The Ultimania doesn't expand on Necron, it states pretty much the same thing that it does in game. It's summoned because of Kuja's wish to end all life. Kuja is already made sensible and understandable earlier on.

This. I can’t believe there are FFIX drones on this thread right now defending her character arc.

The only time she expressed discontent with Brahne’s actions when she didn’t say thank you. “Not even a word of gratitude”. What a childish, poorly written bitch.

I think somewhere in the lore Steiner won by dumb luck
Also I really want Patrick Walburton to voice him if there's ever going to be remake sometime in the next 10 years

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Compared to other Final Fantasy games or heck other games franchises in general, FFIX's soundtrack is really disappointing, aside from "Melodies of Life" most of the music is bland, generic and uninspired, it feels like Nobuo Uematsu wasn't really using his A-game, ironically the man himself calls this his favourite soundtrack, I honestly believe it's only his favourite because it was the easiest to do, after the hard and tiring work done on the complex music of the previous FFs, this was basically a holiday break for him. Maybe this is why Square started using him less and less for the games afterward.

Look at other soundtracks like Yoko’s FFXV, or the person who did the XIII’s music.

Pretty shallow take when most of the explanation you want for was likely axed for storage reasons, not structural reasons.

The battle system is too slow and doesn't really do anything new or interesting. Otherwise its top 3 along with FFVI and XII.

>The battle system is too slow
Because you're supposed to be stealing shit

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>The atmosphere and characters during the first 2 discs really feels like an adventure, one of those that stay with you.

Except for the characters acting like idiots such as Garnet.

Vegeta was a genocidal maniac in the Saiyan Saga
A psychopath in the Frieza saga
A complete asshole in the Cell saga
Then a jealous little bitch in the Buu saga
Now I’m Super he’s just a grumpy dude

He did develop in a slow, natural way.

>FFX
>series-ruining blunder
do you even play games?
were you even old enough to play 10?

>I absolutely hated FFX, it made me quit the series

X is part of the peak of the series.

I strongly disagree. FFIX’s OST is probably among my Top 5 of all time.

The story is badly done.

>cheap
>redeem
>plot device character
>forced and contrived
>unsympathetic is bad
>IX's themes were unclear
FF9 haters everyone

> only time she expressed discontent with Brahne’s actions when she didn’t say thank you
Cherry picking but I do agree they should have done more with it.

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FFIX has the best pacing in any FF game.
At first you’re dealing with local shenanigans, then you get involved in a war between city-states, then all major cities of that continent are destroyed, then the story expands to another continent, then the world is at stake, then you leave to another world, then you must defend all existence.

Compare that to FFVII which is just chasing Sephiroth from point A to point B

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Quina Quen is a trans woman

Garland is a much more morally ambiguous antagonist than Final Fantasy usually serves up (give or take a Delita). His job demands he get his hands dirty, but Garland is absolutely certain that his doing it for the sake of his world's survival absolves him. It's unfortunate that Final Fantasy IX's atrocious pacing robs him of the impact he should have had, and as a result he ends up playing third fiddle to Brahne and Kuja -- a pair of far more typical and less interesting villains.

>It's doesn't follow the black and white good guy vs evil guy pattern in this game.

Except that’s exactly what it does, Brahne and Kuja are unbelievable cartoon villains. With the only believable, interesting and complex antagonist being Garland and he gets shafted.

The game would have been better if they focused on the Gaia/Terra dualism and them coming together, with Zidane and Garnet being the incarnations of Terra and Gaia, making their love story all the more impactful and powerful, unlike how the current game acted like Zidane/Garnet was a major focus when it really wasn’t.

>tfw you get a random encounter right before a boss and they knock you into trance

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>Ywn be bullied by Alexandrian soldiers.

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Amarant was a party member instead of Blank. Quina gets 0 development in general.

Necron and the encounter rate are the lowest points of this game, followed by a terrible lacking in party diversity.
After that, about the worst thing about this game is that it's furrier than Breath of Fire, which is the RPG for furries, and that's saying something. Even still, it's fun to have a cast that isn't just three students. Or a dog, four guys and two chicks, all in just... plain clothes. Like fucking plainclothes officers.
>you forgot Cait Sith!
No, I left Cait Sith out in the fucking cold where he belongs.

W-were they pantless on purpose to distract their enemies?

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>Quina gets 0 development
you learn lots about Qu and the nigga becomes a gourmand

Terrans -> Try to survive
Garland -> Tries to carry out Terran plan
Kuja -> Tries to free himself from Garland because he realizes he's nothing more than a tool to him
The only who fits your description is Brahne and she too is just being used.

Brahne was being manipulated by Kuja and influenced by the mist which was designed to cause civilizations to wage war.

fantasy settings are much more atmospheric when they don't have beast races, beast races just add a sci-i channel level of funkiness

FFIX has no fucking identity of its own
It's just constant references to past games
Also losing to that fucking dyke beatrix multiple times is just humiliating
ffix is overrated shit, even ffviii is better

Quina not tranny
Quina is gourmand
Quina wants eats
Rally Ho Yourself

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>Quina is in the kitchen in Alexandria as the head chef at the beginning and end of the game
it would have been neat if Garnet recognised Quina as one of their chefs, would explain why she was more patient with Quina's shenanigans

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ATB gauge takes too long to fill, but you end up using the exact same action on each character over and over so there's no fast-paced decision making like they intended
Story is boring. You don't really care about any of the characters either
Random encounters every 5 seconds
Music is great though

How is this nigga 89 years old and still hasn’t had much food outside of frogs in his time

10 sucks ass

Which makes me question how he was the head chef at Alexandria castle if he knew so little about food for nearly 90 years

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It has an ample ton SOUL even though the story has some really stupid moments and the gameplay is standard JRPG average. The setting and graphics feel really cool and the music is good.

Over all, it's probably the best Final Fantasy with 7.

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Cloud got the big juicy tits. Zidane got the nice juicy ass. Squall had to settle for a stick.

what the fuck was his problem?

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Zidane fucked him over and turned him into a wanted criminal for something he didn't do.

Got framed by Zidane, ruining his rep which gave him edge status. He had no cure for that until he learned by traveling with Zidane and crew.

I recall Rinoa having a nice body, just nothing all that outstanding like Tifa's sweaterpuppies or Garnet's royal derriere.

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By the time of 8 and 9, the budgets were so bloated and they focused so much on the flashy technical aspects, they skimped on the pacing and setting. FF6-7 really worked because of the setting, characters, pacing, and style.

FF9 is so slow, and bloated, that it's like 90 minutes before the game really even starts and anything happens. It's just CGI movies after CGI movies and blah blah blah talking. And even after that you feel lik eyou're in a tight straight jacket of going from one conversation scene to another.

>7 worked because of the pacing
>hours of sephiroth saying "chase me cloud uwu"

fpbp

VII had literally twice the budget IX had. IX’s world building is one of its stronger points too.

>decent start and setup to the world
>Zidane ends up being "the chosen one"
>literally ripped off the storyline of Dragon Ball Z of all things
>Final boss out of nowhere

Rushed ending sequence totally ruins the storyline.

Nothing. 9 is great. 10 was the shit show.

Zidane is hardly “the chosen one”. Just another one of Garland’s tools that unfortunately for him, got lost. People really overstate Zidane’s importance in the Terra plan. His only purpose would have been to cause chaos like Kuja.

>released when the PS2 was fresh out and PS1 was on it's death bed
>people still burned by FF8 after FF7 so poor sells on top of previous reason
>bad load times
>horrible textures
>terrible character designs
>trans pandering (Quina)
>furfag pandering
>most useless steal mechanic in the series
>no originality the entire story and all the locations, items,everything... are just references to older FF games, non-stop nostalgia goggle pandering it's practically family guy cut-away gag references the game
>awful soundtrack which for an FF is unheard of
>the worst final boss in the franchise's history
>card game is awful unlike FF8's which was fun
>shitty mini-games, shitty mini-games everywhere 99/100 nobles are impressed by how bad chocobo hot and cold was!

Triggered.

>>trans pandering (Quina)
The joke is the gender is unknown, how is that trans pandering? If anything it would offend trannies.

Stealing is a awful jrpg mechanic that ruins the flow of combat as you stall out what should be a life or death encounters AND it doesn't even make any sense because you're going to loot the body anyway.

And 9 doubled down on it.

Other than that it was a decent game.

yes you are by facts no less.

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Quina isn't trans pandering you moron. It's ambiguous gender is the joke.

Don’t take the bait guys.

>It's ambiguous gender is the joke.

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responding to yourself isn't going to save face.

I'm disappointed by the lack of Freya-friends here.

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At the end of the day Beatrix is a general and isn't going to mindless apologize for doing her job and upholding her fealty to her lord. That said, the moment she decides Brahne has lost her shit is when she finds out that Garnet is being put to death simply because she's no longer useful. THAT is why the change happens so quickly.

...

Hungry for (you)’s are we? Well here you go.

>he's still seething

I'll just wait here why my ATB bar charges

Beatrix's development is the same as Steiner's, as both are fiercely loyal soldiers and even Steiner refused to believe that Brahne would commit war crimes and atrocities, even order the execution of her daughter, until someone he trusted (Vivi) told him outright.

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>why my ATB bar charges
the bar charges during combat, when it fills, you can take your action, then you wait for it to fill again, that's how the combat works

>Garnet wants to rename herself "Dagger"
>Choose "Garnet" instead

It seems slower than other FF games

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>Kuja also doesn't embrace his role until the actual end. He wants to free himself from Garland have his own identity, it's why the entire first 2 discs (and a bit of 3) is spent hunting for the jewels of Alexander and other eidolons. He's seeking anything to overthrow Garland while still pretending to serve him by causing war.

No, Kuja is just a selfish man child with unwarranted self importance, excessive individualism, also it was stated in the Ultimania's that he was just a regular Genome that accidentally got a soul, there was no reason for him to think he was immortal), the writers even pulled a random entity out of nowhere (Necron) to try and make his incredibly forced heel face turn more credible, plus his whole hunt for the Eidolons (which took up roughly 70% of the game) was completely pointless as he could have simply read some books (he literally has a library in his own desert palace plus he also had access to the Alexandria library) and did research on Trance, and focused on achieving a power that was even greater than the most powerful Eidolon, Alexander, from the start, instead of wasting most of the game on the Eidolons.

That’s scene was absolutely retarded. I keep Garnet as well.

It was just a reference to Celes' sprite from FFVI

the bar isn't, slow the animations are.

>also it was stated in the Ultimania's that he was just a regular Genome that accidentally got a soul
Stopped reading. Both the game and ultimania explain that Garland deliberately gave Kuja a soul. Don’t make shit up just to argue.

>then we have Amarant, he gets a solid character arc

No, Amarant barely had any significance at all and had a really generic and cliché (not to mention implausible) backstory, "oh my gosh that blonde haired tailed thief is trying to frame me for his own theft, even though the other guards have no reason to immediately buy into this complete strangers story, also instead of simply staying put and proving that I'm innocent, especially with how I DON'T have the stolen item, I'm just going to stupidly go away incriminating myself, I'M SO SMART, the writers weren't even trying to make him interesting. Here is a suggestion for a fanfic called "The Thief and his Princess", it shows a much better story arc for him: fanfiction.net/s/6925384/1/The-Thief-And-His-Princess

>the rest are well fleshed out and developed

Also no, Steiner's whole schtick got old real fast and he was just a stereotypical Flanderization of previous knight characters such as FFVI's Cyan and Chrono Trigger's Frog/Glenn who were way more subtle. Steiner and Beatrix's whole relationship was really forced, they've never really had any real chemistry (especially in disk 1 and 2 where during the kidnapping they barely gave each other a second thought, and Beatrix didn't show much concern that Steiner was gone and during the fight with her in disk 2 she treats him like dirt and a traitor up until her spontaneous and forced heel face turn, but I'll get to that).

He would have been better developed if he was the one that went with Freya to Burmecia and, you know, actually witness for himself the atrocities that the Queen was committing (who should have been Beatrix mind you) and actually have some interaction and relation to fellow Burmecian knight Freya (and since she actually knew Zidane a bit, she would try to make Steiner better understand Zidane), and when encountering Beatrix, have actual drama and conflict and delve into their relationship, instead of having to pull us through a really long and pointless subquest that had a extremely obvious conclusion and drag out his painfully oblivious, unlikable and obnoxious, cliché personality that nobody wanted.

It's one of the very few legitimately bad FF games alongside 2, 8, and 15.

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>Freya's arc is concluded at that point. See knows Fratley is alive, and travels with the party to stop those that destroyed her home, hoping that Fratley remembers he one day.

They never explain what caused Fratley’s amnesia, and the whole thing never really gets resolved. It was criminal that I spent more time on Garnet's multiple crises of existence when Freya's plotline got booted to the side with what could be described as a twist tie of a resolution.

>i have no response time for reddit fish meme

That wasn’t my point, I didn't consider running away to be a problem, but it was when followed with the incredibly stupid chain of events afterwards. I mean, if you're so afraid of your mother going nuts and killing people that you ran away from home, why in the name of Yevon would you decide she can be reasoned with later after being given evidence that you were right?!
I did like Rinoa's character better - she made sense, Garnet didn't. Not tough for me to say that. I also forgot to add that I hated that Garnet, after completely losing any sympathy I had for her, proceeded to hijack the plot of the game to the detriment of the rest of the cast who had better plots than her.

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> the whole thing never really gets resolved
Given your posts above I would have expected you to appreciate that. Characters with amnesia getting their memory back is the most cliché route to go with.

don't be so disingenuous
II is in its own tier of fucking trash, that piece of shit didn't even work properly and when it did, it was shit anyway, fuck the levelling in that game, I don't even like VIII or XV but II is far below both

The irony, of course, being that Beatrix was the one who finally got Steiner to admit to himself that Brahne was indeed out of her mind.

That’s not why she ran though. She wanted to consult with Cid on what to do and inform him of what’s been going on. Of course unbeknown to her, he was already aware. She even complains to herself later over this feeling that she’s always a step behind everyone. She tries what she feels she can do and has no idea of what’s to come. Can you really blame her? She’s a young girl and up until that point her mother had been known as kind leader.

I dunno if it’s because I’ve matured or just don’t really care now but I rarely find the energy or motivation to argue with people who think the stories I like are bad anymore. Everyone has their preference.

>its also possible Kuja could have just kidnapped her from Lindblum

But that’s the thing though, there could have been a much more plausible and believable way for them to have gotten the Eidolons, instead of the lazily written stupid cliché scenario we got, it is a cliché by the way:

“If any female character, in a burst of anger or enthusiasm, decides to go off and accomplish something on her own without the hero, she will fail miserably and again have to be rescued.”

And Garnet is one of the worst examples of this cliché.

Moving on, they expect us to buy that she only ran away from home and traveled accross the entire continent to Lindblum JUST to talk to Cid about vague details (that he already knew about, and Garnet could have told him through a letter and Mognet), and nothing else, that's a really weak reason.

What should have been the reason was that Garnet was trying to figure out who that "strange man" prowling the castle was (Kuja), it was incredibly obvious that Kuja was the source of the problem, and that the characters should have been focusing on him straight from the get go, instead of wasting time with the whole pointless Brahne and Burmecia thing (don't fight the symptoms, fight the disease).

If a "suspicious person" (which is an understatement for Kuja, just look at his fashion sense) shows up at your home, starts meeting with your mom, and said mom starts acting crazy, it should be REEEALLLLY obvious that the person responsible is said suspicious stranger and you should find out who he is, where he operates and go after HIM.

take the essay back to the adult learning annex where it belongs.

>Other genomes are 3000 years old at this point, might be why.

Where was that stated?

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Miss Eiko!

Here is a script line directly from the game when you’re in Madain Sari:

Dagger
"A village of summoners..."
"I read about them in a book once... A tribe that possesses the power to call forth eidolons..."
"Eidolons..."
"Knowing that I had eidolons inside me didn't bring me any joy."

What that story summary said is clearly contradicted by this, where Garnet clearly says she KNEW she had Eidolons in her.

So when the wounded soldier came barging in they should have just ignored Brahne? “Fuck our allied kingdom, lets hunt the mystery who we don’t even know had something to do with this yet!”
Ultimania.

sure she wasnt talking about bonking ramuh?

Ah there you are. Of course she knew by then, they were extracted from her and she has seen them in action.

Rewrites aren’t a bad thing, especially if VII’s original script was done by Sakaguchi, because writing isn’t really his specialty, as shown with IX which was written by him and didn’t get much of a rewrite.

Rewrites are a bad thing when you mush them all together, especially when they don't even bother to distill them into their best elements beforehand.

She does, She quite literally goes back and hands her entire selection of eidolons to her mother after all the hard work Tantalus did to get her ass out of the kingdom. In the end Garnet is the one responsible for giving her mother magic nuclear weaponry that annihilated two countries, seriously hurt Lindblum and then Alexandria itself killing god knows how many people.

Garnet ran from Brahne based on her own evidence, her own experience and her knowledge that staying is worse for herself, he mother, its citizens and the entire world. It aligned PERFECTLY (but coincidentally!! lol!) with her uncle's, Regent Cid of the other powerful trade nation Lindblum, plan to use the troupe Tantalus to "kidnap" her away from what HE, TOO, could tell was an increasingly psychopathic queen of Alexandria.

The game proves both of these royals' decision to have Garnet leave and not return was the best choice for absolutely everyone involved. But Garnet has a sudden mood-switch and acts like a child, ordering her personal knight to guide her back to the Queen just to talk to her and have no other goal whatsoever, thinking it'll all be fine despite all the compounding, building and extreme level of evidence proving at every step this was the wrong decision to make causing her mortal risk when she was otherwise entirely safe (and loved).

If she had remained home, her eidolons would have been extracted. If she had remained in Lindblum, the attack on Burmecia still would have taken place, same with Cleyra. When Burmecia is attacked, Cid would still have his airship fleet focus on that, taking their eye off Alexandria. Garnet would have been captured one way or the other. At no point do any armies stand a chance against the black mage army in this game.

Hi I like all the final fantasies they each have their own unique charm and i enjoy them all. :^)

you imply that Brahne was only able to destroy those countries because she extracted the Eidolons, its made clear that the Alexandrian army and the Black Mages are more than enough to bring any country on the Mist Continent to its knees, they sacked Burmecia all without an Eidolon, even Beatrix states that Cleyra would have been more than enough for her soldiers and black mage troops, the Eidolons were just ways Brahne could express her power, there would have been countless deaths regardless because of the Black Mages
Garnet pulled a stupid, but its not like those deaths would have been preventable otherwise

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one of my first wet dreams was dreaming about dry humping eiko

Except that war was caused by extremely unrealistic and cartoonish reasons, by Brahne whose motives amounted to the cliché “LOL she’s just greedy”, real Life dictators did not do the things they did because of simple greed, it had to do with screwed up philosophy and bad up-bringing,look up Hitler’s background, none of this which Brahne had. As was described in the game, Brahne had a really good and productive life and was kind, good ruler, the loss of her husband and biological daughter were recent things but not enough to turn you into a war mongering sociopath that wants to murder her family members and friends (and that has nothing to do with "greed"), especially when you still have your identical adoptive daughter, there is nothing Kuja could have said to have instigated that, she's just another Emperor Gestahl/Shinra/ clone whose only purpose in the story is to serve as a generic one dimensional antagonist who you know is just going to get stabbed in the back and die, and after all she did, that is really unsatisfying.

Then there is Kuja who was just a spoiled, special-snowflake syndrome, USI manchild whom the story acts like is “deep”, the only realistic, complex antagonist was Garland.

Seriously I read this list of game reviews book and in it it said that IX SHUNNED REALISM.

I hate it whenever a story with cartoon evil a-holes and a bunch of over the top stuff decides to inject holocaust imagery in, it’s tasteless.

Nintendo hire this man!

Based.

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>In defense of Necron, his fight plays an important role into the story thematically in how explores the game's main theme of death and dealing with your inevitable. Necron is death itself. Necron believes that all life exists to seek death. But through

No, all those claims on the “themes” are superficial and looking way too deep, Necron is just a Cloud of Darkness clone (his actual name in the Japanese version is “The Darkness of Eternity”, the English translation couldn’t fit in the headcount limit so they changed it to Necron), heck his design is ripped off from the second to last boss in FFV.

FFIX is all over the place in it’s supposed themes.

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10 is a pretty weak entry, not bad, but there are a lot that were better, the combat was the strongest aspect, but the world exploration is pretty weak, exploration is a major part of FF, it's on par with XIII desu, yet no one seems to acknowledge that.

>All she did was carry out orders

You’re going to play the “just following orders” card, huh? That’s not an excuse.

Fucking idiot.

>holocaust imagery
Oh yeah, those concentration camps outside pinnacle rocks were shocking. Cant believe they sent all the hippo people to the gas chambers too , damn.
>I want my game to tell deep realistic stories through the villain
FF is literally just not the gaming series for you if that’s your expectation.

I'm sure he meant as a main character, she was only a temporary member of the party.

>She does, She quite literally goes back and hands her entire selection of eidolons to her mother
was it ever stated or even implied that she had any idea that Eidolons could even be extracted? honestly her Eidolons being extracted are a tragic consequence of what were good intentions
look at it from her look at it from her perspective, she learns her mother has just attacked a neighbouring kingdom, she decides that she has to at least try convince her mother, if she failed, worst case she would be locked up, but she doesn't realise that her Eidolons can be extracted, she had no reason to believe any of that was even possible
and once again, even with that in mind, nothing fucking changes, the war still continues, the black mage army continues its relentless march

Stop trying to justify things from what is clearly a poorly written version of Cecil and Celes. Cecil’s arc was way better done, with Cecil at the beginning of the game you were shown the conflict with him and the red wings with them debating if they should really do those actions, and when actually attacking Mysidia, actually showed hesitation and afterwards immediate remorse, there was actual build up, and unlike Beatrix, didn't act like a total jerk wad or brainwashed tool when doing it (I don't judge a person based solely on their actions but also largely on their attitude and motives, which is what I think all people should do), with Beatrix there is no build up, the scene on the Red Rose with her post-Cleyra I felt was a complete ass pull, then bam! Suddenly when you're back in Alexandria, she's her jerkwad self again, then afterwards as this one person put it "through the span of three dialogue boxes, changes from a cold blooded war mongerer to a loyal companion"? Yeah, no, that's not how it works, it's really cliché.

As a big fan of IX, here are some things off the top of my head.

>Freya's character arc dies shortly after she's introduced
>Amarant feels like a very tacked on character
>two discs before you can build your own party
>everything outside of Mist Continent feels small even though you explore three other continents and another world
>you fight and lose to Beatrix too many times
>too many skills that are either useless (Zidane's Annoy) or saddled with shit accuracy
>FAILED TO STEAL ANYTHING

That still means playable. Just like Seymour in FFX is playable and even has his own Overdrive, even if just for one fight.

Nope. She doesnt even know she has eidolons at that point.

Troll.

I'd say this is nice bait, but it's not.

>The Ultimania doesn't expand on Necron, it states pretty much the same thing that it does in game.

Hence my comment about the writers making it up.

>Kuja is already made sensible and understandable earlier on.

he is just an unintentionally unsympathetic character, the game makes him out to be sympathetic when really he isn't, he’s a moustache twirling a-hole, there's no build up, no hesitation or remorse in his actions (he just spouts pointless poetry which just makes him more unsympathetic), up until the last minute, and it's really only for incredibly shallow reasons like finding out he was going die soon and made a desperate attempt at amends (speaking of that, that made no sense, why the heck did Kuja think he was immortal?

It was stated in the Ultimania's that he was just a regular Genome that accidentally got a soul, there was no reason for him to think he was immortal.), the writers even pulled a random entity out of nowhere (Necron) to try and make his incredibly forced heel face turn more credible, plus his whole hunt for the Eidolons (which took up roughly 70% of the game) was completely pointless as he could have simply read some books (he literally has a library in his own desert palace plus he also had access to the Alexandria library) and did research on Trance, and focused on achieving a power that was even greater than the most powerful Eidolon, Alexander, from the start, instead of wasting most of the game on the Eidolons.

Am I an idiot for not knowing that Terra was located INSIDE Gaia? I absolutely love this game but never knew that detail until recently. It explains a lot of things like why Oeilvert is on Gaia in the first place.

>likely axed for storage reasons, not structural reasons.

Source?

The same could apply for a lot of things in the game.

Yeah you did this post already

I don't have a source but the games budget got slashed mid production and the latter 1/3 of it is slapped together.

>>unsympathetic is bad

Yes for characters that the game suddenly acts like are sympathetic, like Brahne and Kuja.

>Compare that to FFVII which is just chasing Sephiroth from point A to point B

That is a huge over simplification.

>holocaust imagery
what? the only thing I can think of is that you walk through a recently conquered Lindblum and see the destruction first hand, that's not fucking holocaust imagery, nor is Madain Sari or Cleyra getting destroyed
>Then there is Kuja who was just a spoiled, special-snowflake syndrome, USI manchild whom the story acts like is “deep”
now you are just trying to be pedantic, Kuja is an egotistcal narcisist with lofty goals, he's not loyal to Garland despite being created by him, he's a snake, he uses people as he sees fit
from what we know, Genomes are very long lived, almost to the point of immortal through the eyes of anyone none the wiser about their life spans, Kuja in his egotism, believes he is the only one fit to use the world as he pleases, when he learns that his time is limited, severely so by genome standards, he is enraged, he tries to destroy the world along with himself, he isn't fucking thinking straight
he's much more interesting than you just slapping the "manchild" label on him for the sake of trying to make them sound worse than they are
Brahne is relatively one dimensional, but she's not the main villain and she does have some character to her, you know she was devastated by her husbands death and then in her grief, Kuja shows up and uses that to manipulate and control her into waging war, Brahne is obviously not of sound mind in this state
its also known that before the death of her husband, she was a beloved monarch, even after everything that happened, her citizens still send her a rose bouquet for her grave
honestly, you raise some good points, but you also come across as someone who just really doesn't want to see the virtues in the game and is too stubborn to change that

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>At the end of the day Beatrix is a general and isn't going to mindless apologize for doing her job and upholding her fealty to her lord
Except she did apologize right after rebelling against Brahne, it's just extremely half-assed and insincere and she never thinks about it again.

Story loses steam by the time Alexandria gets nuked. Kuja overall is a shittier Sephiroth.

>Garnet is one of the worst female FF leads.

I disagree, but I think I can see where you're coming from. While the story is very character driven, with Garnet being the central character, I don't think the way they handled her was the best.

>Garnet isn't usable until pretty much the end of Evil Forest
>isn't involved in two boss fights afterwards despite that
>gets angry at Zidane for telling her not to run off into danger
>runs off into danger at the end of Disc 1, the exact time the game opens up a little
>gets captured and isn't usable for a good chunk of Disc 2
>only has one Summon once you get her back, giving her little versatility compared to Eiko
>runs off again at the end of Disc 2
>doesn't come back until a decent way into Disc 3
>once you get her back, she has a 50% chance to fail at doing anything other than scratching her ass due to depression
>this is the point the game decides to dump a bunch of her Summons on you at once instead of spreading them out better
>it takes even longer to fix the depression problem
>by this point, she doesn't really factor much into the main narrative anymore because it's about Kuja and the Terrans

Like, damn, can I use Garnet and have her actually able to do something for a while, please?

Why, because he actually has a character to him?

People say this a lot about 9, and I can see why, but when you think about it, it's fairly justified for most characters.
Amarant is a strong silent type and is only along for the ride to learn how to get stronger by watching Zidane fight, nothing else. He is frequently seen taking no interest in the plot/world around him walking around in times of danger and flat out ignoring encounters with Kuja while the rest of the party deal with it.
Quina is a simple minded character, the comic relief, also doesn't take much interest in the greater story, only in it for what they're interested in. Not to mention a blatant filler character in the early game, drifting in and out of the party seemingly at random.
Eiko is a young girl that joins late in the game and goes through a fittingly simpler arc about coming to terms with her emotions and not being alone.
Freya is the only one I have a real issue with, and thats because at what seems to be the peak of her arc is very clearly cut short, only to be concluded in a foot note in the epilogue. Its a shame, her character could have been so much more.

*uses Meteor on you Turn 1*

Heh, nothin' personnel, kid.

>Tetra master is fun.

See, I'd believe this if I had any fucking idea as to how that mini-game worked.

I collected all of the cards and I still don't understand.

Ozma is a cheating whore and the reason why I haven't finished my second playthrough of IX
I'll beat him when I feel like it

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ever consider just looking up how it works?

It didn't really. once she cut it it stays short until the end of the game, and it only really grew back to show the passage of time

Sephiroth in the original game isn't that fucking good
really, his entire character can be boiled down to "strong as fuck man learns he is an alien worm baby, then tries to nuke the planet with a meteorite"
his motivations were so fucking vague that it wasn't until Advent Children that you actually learn what this guy actually wanted to accomplish
>That is a huge oversimplification
and? that's literally the plot for the entirety of the first disc

The world and characters are so awful. I swear only flurries like it, and people who want to pretend 7 doesn't exist.

>Kuja -> Tries to free himself from Garland because he realizes he's nothing more than a tool to him

While being a sadistic, narcissistic, moustache twirlingly evil a-hole with no remorse for his actions and just being a spoiled self-entitled man-child, his motives amount to “WAHHH, I’M SPECIAL, EVERYONE GET ON THEIR KNEES AND KISS MY ASS”.

It’s the extreme of individualism.

10 is a cringe hallway simulator.

Why did it take Zidane to return to Alexandria at the end of the game? Garnet's hair returned to it's original length, which must have taken 1 year+ at least. Not only that, but if you read Vivis final monologue you realise that Vivi died not knowing Zidane was actually still alive. And is it ever explained where the Vivi sons come from? I've only just recently been able to start making sense of some of the games plot points but my best guess is that as the souls can retain memories do the sons have Vivi's soul?

>Vivi
>soul

Nothing

>Brahne was being manipulated by Kuja and influenced by the mist which was designed to cause civilizations to wage war.

I’ve commenters keep trying to make that Mist argument, but there is no indication in the game that the Queen’s behaviour was caused by the mist, and it just causes a bunch of plot holes, why aren’t all of the Burmecian rats and Freya a bunch of blood hungry psychopaths considering that unlike Alexandria, Lindblum and Cleyra, Burmecia is WITHIN the mist, and how would Kuja do that to Brahne? Does he have a syringe full of mist and injects it into Brahne? Does he have to do it regularly? How can he do it without anyone finding out and busting him?

>permanently changing Garnet's name to Dagger

Beatrix being a giant god sue with writer's pet plot armor
Dumbfucks that defend Beatrix because she a POWERFUL WOMAN WITH GIANT BOOBS
Trance being a shit power up
Garnet being useless during some part of the story
The adventure feel ends after disc 2
Final boss being shit
Zuja being a shit main antagonist
Dumbfuck that defend these by trying to be MUH DEEP LORE shit
Could have any of Zidane's friend, like Blank, would have been a better addition than dreadlock faggot
Fuck over Freya by a large margin

Black mages are literally made with mist, Gaian souls filtered out of the Soul Cycle.

Black Mages were created from coalesced raw soul fragments and so have their own souls. Same with monsters.

Make Quina food oriented but have his fixation be on making sure everyone is well fed on their journey, as well as making sure everyone gets a well balanced diet or whatever. Remove his fixation of tasting food solely for himself.

This guy would disagree with you: translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://www.finalfantasywhatever.com/2014/07/final-fantasy-x-review.html&sandbox=1

No the bests would be VII, X and XII.

>While being a sadistic, narcissistic, moustache twirlingly evil a-hole with no remorse for his actions and just being a spoiled self-entitled man-child, his motives amount to “WAHHH, I’M SPECIAL, EVERYONE GET ON THEIR KNEES AND KISS MY ASS”.
literally untrue, please stop this
Kuja is never a moustache twirling villain, he has no remorse for his actions, why would he? he doesn't see killing Garland as anything to be remorseful over, at the very end of the game, he actually does show that he wishes things had been different
he thinks he's special because he's literally a special genome, he's the guy who was meant to fulfill everything Terra ever wanted, he's literally the most important Genome in the game along with Zidane, his ego and inflated self importance are crucial parts of his character, its why he takes the reveal of his mortality very badly, his egotism dictated that if he has to die, everyone has to go down with him, he is not thinking rationally in the slightest, he didn't see the value in life anymore, not for him, not for anyone else
at the very end, when its just him and Zidane, he shows remorse, believing that he didn't deserve to live after all he's done, finally realising how important life is, Zidane wants to help him out because Kuja helped his friends escape, Kuja dies regretting his actions
he might have been injured and only recently recovered
as for Vivi, not sure, I assumed it had something to do with the process of making new Black Mages, but I'm not 100% sure

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Did you even play VII?

>Patrick Warburton
>Not Jamieson Price

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>Beatrix is never shown killing much less attacking anyone that isn't trying to fight her
>When Zidane and crew do fight her she beats them and lets them live 3 TIMES
>At Cleyra, Beatrix devises a plan to get the jewel by having her troops cause a commotion and then run away, which lets her simply walk up to where the jewel is being held and take it without fighting anyone

The game goes out of it's way to link Beatrix with Brahne's war but keep her from appearing to do any truly evil/malicious acts, which makes sense since eventually she becomes an ally. It's pretty bizarre that people are unable to grasp that the intent of the character is to be someone who just happens to be on the wrong side.

>implying the entire game isn't literally chasing sephiroth
Did you?

>IX’s world building is one of its stronger points too.

No, quote from another person: “when you realize this world has boats...and boats have sails...and sails don't need mist. So you start scratching your head and realize that the entire world outside of this main continent should not only be charted (because apparently it's not) but are perfectly habitable areas for people to live in.

The world is old, and these people haven't ever got to a boat and looked out upon the world? Seeing as how there's a history of power hungry leaders in Gaia, it's surprising there's not a ton of outer-mist-continent colonies about refining minerals and staking claims."

Midget designs again

BS.

Amarant can easily solo him.

>Pacha meme
Now that's something i haven't seen in a long time. Top tier reaction, top tier edits, but just disappeared after a month or two. Wish they had stuck around a bit longer.

All characters can solo him with luck, Ozma is only hard because of luck in the first place.

And all of a sudden, the rug is pulled out from beneath the hero's feet as he is forced to confront his murky past and come to terms with the fact that he's not the person he thinks he is. This works great in Final Fantasy VII, since the entire game builds up to that one climactic moment from the very beginning. But in Final Fantasy IX, it's completely tacked-on, and only done because this is post-Final Fantasy VII and paying customers expect at least one terrible and momentous mindfuck of a revelation before the credits roll.

youtube.com/watch?v=yrjjuwkhygk

>So you start scratching your head and realize that the entire world outside of this main continent should not only be charted (because apparently it's not) but are perfectly habitable areas for people to live in.
the outer continent isn't completely alien to the populace of Gaia, Cid had a map of the world, he literally gives it to you, we also see Alexandria's navy go there in pursuit of Kuja, not to mention the entirety of Fossil Roo is a giant mine complex that leads to the outer continent and is still filled with miners, presumably there are still rich pickings close to home
the reason its not colonised is because the probably didn't see much value in it in the past
the lost continient is also seemingly frozen over and not a great place to colonise, the only structure there is Esto Gaza, which may have been built by the mole people who lived in Mt Gulg or the religious folk and pilgrims
the forgotten continent can't be sailed on via a boat, only airship, only structures there are terran in origin and are leftovers from when the worlds tried to merge

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No luck involved, killable at lvl 1. Aura for regen + Auto Life, and some darkness and holy absorb gear. Dark Matter for damage

Just because it can be done at lvl 1 doesn't mean there isn't any luck involved. You can have a high level party fully prepared and still get wiped some attempts and be fine others.

Was it actually Quina in Alexandrias kitchen at the start of the game, or just a Qu that reused the same model? The character is just referred to as Head Chef or something.

not the same user but if you read about Ozma's scripting, the only luck involved is damage output.

Just saying that there is no luck involved with Amarant. he absorbs everything but Curse

8 wasn’t that bad.

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I suppose, thought I wouldn't really agree that it's not random if your reading the actual code, most players wont do that.
Oh I see.

>Characters with amnesia getting their memory back is the most cliché route to go with.

So is a character having amnesia for no explained reason.

They seriously expect us to buy that she only ran away from home and traveled accross the entire continent to Lindblum JUST to talk to Cid about vague details (that he already knew about, and Garnet could have told him through a letter and Mognet), and nothing else, that's a really weak reason.

What should have been the reason was that Garnet was trying to figure out who that "strange man" prowling the castle was (Kuja), it was incredibly obvious that Kuja was the source of the problem, and that the characters should have been focusing on him straight from the get go, instead of wasting time with the whole pointless Brahne and Burmecia thing (don't fight the symptoms, fight the disease).

If a "suspicious person" (which is an understatement for Kuja, just look at his fashion sense) shows up at your home, starts meeting with your mom, and said mom starts acting crazy, it should be REEEALLLLY obvious that the person responsible is said suspicious stranger and you should find out who he is, where he operates and go after HIM.

Yet in the game Garnet dosen't even remotely come to this obvious conclusion up until after running home like a complete idiot, getting captured, and in her room suddenly proclaimed "*gasp* the incredibly suspicious person whom my mother meets with after which my mother suddenly started acting crazy was the REASON for said mother going crazy, I am TOTALLY SURPRISED by this not-at-all obvious answer that I'm just realizing now and should have seen from the very beginning".

Amnesia in general is cliche, whats interesting about it was how it was handled in 9, rather than focusing on the person who had it, the focus was on how it effected those closest to them, really is a shame Freya's arc was kicked in the head.

>She even complains to herself later over this feeling that she’s always a step behind everyone.

That’s just forced drama and makes Garnet look pretty selfish.

She was definitely a step ahead of Kuja until she decided to make the kidnapping completely pointless.

fuck it I'll try it

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It's more to do with the fact that Cid was the regent of Lindblum, the technological capital of the world, and was the region that originally brought peace to the world. No one was really aware of Kujas true intentions or power, he spends most of the game working in the shadows pulling strings.

Not to mention she would have ended up in Lindblum regardless as Zidane was hired to bring her there in the first place.

It’s not just a preference, it’s speaking objectively and giving constructive criticism.

Since VII is getting a remake and they’re going to fix some problems in the story and change things, not making it just the same game with HD graphics, I’m hoping these criticisms will be more noticed so that when IX gets a remake Square will give IX poorly written story a serious rewrite (ESPECIALLY removing Garnet’s dumb actions and better executing the Zidane and Garnet love story).

What do you even mean?

You soon learn that there is no way to argue why you do or don't like something. Especially here, people will use nothing arguments just to annoy you, either because they can't be bothered or genuinely don't have any valid arguments.

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you could ask whoever runs the GED equivalency program you're currently attending.

she expected Cid to do something about it you fucking buffoon, he has the power and possible sway since he was a close friend of her father and Brahne's late husband, if Brahne wouldn't listen to her daughter, maybe she would listen to an old friend, he's also quite close to Garnet personally as well, he was fully prepared to help if not for the fact that Alexandria attacks Burmecia at that point
also, the "suspicious man" was only said to be prowling around, at that point, its not clear he is the one making the queen this way, she's never met Kuja at this point, she has no idea what he's like, there was nothing at that point that gave her reason to suspect anyone was pulling her strings
honestly, your reasoning's are flimsy as fuck and relies on information only the player could know on second playthrough, we KNOW Kuja is the suspicious man, we KNOW what he's capable of, no one else does, no one has a reason to think he's the bad guy, for fucks sake, Garnet has never personally met the guy

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I always kind of liked the eclectic background character models. It reminded me of Star Wars before FF12 tried to BE Star Wars.

>“If any female character, in a burst of anger or enthusiasm, decides to go off and accomplish something on her own without the hero, she will fail miserably and again have to be rescued.”
Fucking this. So many great female characters in vidya(and anime as well) are ruined by this cliche.

This. You need to be able to take into account the characters perspectives and not just the players. To the player it's obvious hes a suspicious character because of musical ques and monologuing to himself, and fashion isn't really an argument with costume design as out there as it is in this game. None of the main characters actually come face to face with Kuja in any meaningful way until mid way through the game or something.

Translation, as it negated a lot of the references to past titles.

to be fair, in this thread at least, someone has been dumping on the games story and has gotten really strong arguments against them, ones they conveniently ignore of course

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>“Fuck our allied kingdom, lets hunt the mystery who we don’t even know had something to do with this yet!”

No, but it should have been a scenario like the one in VI where after fighting Ultros in the river you play through three scenarios (that you get to choose to do in whatever order), after the wounded guard comes in, first scenario: Zidane, Garnet and Vivi go to the outer continent to find out more about the Eidolons (also because Cid instead of being an idiot, TELLS Garnet about the Eidolons and that the Queen is after them, the info that Cid KNEW from the start, and also told them more information about Kuja and his visits to the outer continent) and to find Kuja and go after the source of the problem.

Second scenario: Freya, Steiner and (eventually) Quina go to Burmecia to aid them, making more sense since they’re experienced Knights, it would have also gave more development between Beatrix and Steiner, instead of Steiner being absent from Beatrix’s actions during that point (also Beatrix would be the Queen and Garnet’s mother instead of the stupid Brahne)

Third Scenario: The Tantalus crew go to Dali to destroy the Black Mages factory: it never made sense how Tantalus found out about Blank’s petrification so quickly, they couldn’t have still been in the forest when it happened since they would be petrified too, and they couldn’t have been nearby otherwise they would have joined up with Zidane and Garnet in the Ice Cave, instead they don’t find out about it until they get back to Lindblum and Z&G tell them about Blank, so they find out about the Supersoft and make plans to go to Treno, and Cid asks Baku to destroy the BM factory in Dali on the way to weaken Alexandria’s forces (you know, ACTUAL STRATEGIES, instead of just forgetting about that whole factory?!).

That scenario would be way more interesting than what the actual game gave us.

She was literally shown cutting down any rats that got close to Brahne, and still directly aided Brahne in committing genocide.

>Of course she knew by then, they were extracted from her and she has seen them in action.

So she was referring in a past tense, she was saying she knew since childhood.

Speaking of which, despite having the amnesia shouldn’t she subconsciously be aware of the Eidolons and the teachings of the Summoners before her home Madain Sari was devastated by the Invincible when she was six? (Keep in mind that Eiko is that same age)

I've played 4 FF games, V, VI, VII and X and FFIX is the best of them.

I've tried playing 13 but I need to get a legit copy on steam for achievements because after the first dungeon area, i've abandoned the game twice. It's hard to get into.

post screenshots
>in b4 that one scene where the burmecian soldier tries to step up and gets cold feet once he finds out it's Beatrix

Garnet looks like she fucks rat men

Here is what VII would have done with out a rewrite: “Nomura reminds Kitase of his plans for the final of ff7:

But if I hadn't stopped you, in the second half of the game, you were planning to kill everyone off but the final three characters the player chooses! In the scene where they parachute into Midgar. You wanted everyone to die there! You and Nojima-san were all excited about this. I was the one who said “No way!” And stopped you guys. You wanted to kill everyone except the final three characters the player chose for the endgame.”

there was literally no reason for them to go anywhere near the Outer Continient this early, there was nothing there for them to find, its not until they learn that Kuja is there that they head that way
It could have been neat to see Steiner and Freya interact more, but Steiner is Garnet's knight and protector, he goes where she goes, the only time he doesn't is when he entrusts her life in Zidane and Vivi's hands to aid their escape, not to mention Vivi hears its the black mages attacking, he wants to go and try find out more about himself and the mysterious black mages
at this point, we have no fucking clue if Tantalus made it out of the Evil Forest or not, or even if anyone else knows where they are, from what we see in ATE's, they are on the road, at this point, they have no way of being contacted, not to mention they don't know anything about the fucking factory
most of these rewrites sound super fucking convoluted om trying to fix really minor story details (Blanks petrification, really?)

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loli characters always did it for me. Even as a young child watching sailor moon, Chibiusa was the one that really got my blood flowing. I don’t know why.

That’s not the point, the point is there was a much better done way the Eidolons could have been taken (or just have them taking right at the beginning of the game, why didn’t the Queen just have the Eidolons extracted from Garnet on the day before her birthday? Does the age thing have to be exact? Or on the very early morning of her actual birthday?)

See >At no point do any armies stand a chance against the black mage army in this game.

Lindblum does do to being more advanced, but the Eidolons ruined that.

Also the difference between the Black Mages and the Eidolons is that the latter is WAY more destructive.

>why didn’t the Queen just have the Eidolons extracted from Garnet on the day before her birthday? Does the age thing have to be exact? Or on the very early morning of her actual birthday?)
stop being so pedantic, there may have been complications with the extraction process if she wasn't old enough, she had no reason to think Garnet would escape, she wasn't expecting the Theatre Troupe to kidnap her
>Lindblum does do to being more advanced, but the Eidolons ruined that.
the Black Mages make it in before the Eidolon appears and from what we see, overpower their soldiers and burn their fleet of airships, Brahne brings out the Eidolon later during the attack as a display of her might and to force the regent to surrender his kingdoms jewel
I seriously suggest you replay the game, you are making a ton of mistakes in your arguments

FFX made more money than FF7

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>its made clear that the Alexandrian army and the Black Mages are more than enough to bring any country on the Mist Continent to its knees

No, that only happened to Burmecia, and that was directly in the Mist, and wasn’t as advanced as Lindblum was, Cleyra was only attack because the Sandstorm that protected it dissipated when the harp randomly broke for some reason that is never explained. Lindblum would have fought off the Black Mages were it not for the Eidolons.

“there would have been countless deaths regardless because of the Black Mages”

No because the difference between the Mages and the Eidolons were that the latter was FAR more devastating, even if the Mages captured Cleyra it wouldn’t have destroyed like Odin did to it, Bermecia was still standing and lots of people were able to flee.

The one thing I like about the rerelease was that it made a lot anons aware how fucking shit and mary sue Beatrix was and the no amount of Beatrixfag could defend her by simply saying she hot.

There is tons of exploration in X.

>Oh yeah, those concentration camps outside pinnacle rocks were shocking. Cant believe they sent all the hippo people to the gas chambers too , damn.

I’m referring to the nuke and the rats, if anything IX takes itself too seriously.

>FF is literally just not the gaming series for you if that’s your expectation.

Guess you never played X and XII, the peaks of the series, huh?

>No, that only happened to Burmecia, and that was directly in the Mist, and wasn’t as advanced as Lindblum was, Cleyra was only attack because the Sandstorm that protected it dissipated when the harp randomly broke for some reason that is never explained.
The Cleyrans take the shattering of the strings as a terrible omen, its a prelude to the catastrophe that will take place
Lindblum would have fought off the Black Mages were it not for the Eidolons.
factually incorrect, if you watch the FMV after Pinnacle Rock, Brahne is attacking Lindblum with her fleet, the soldiers are quickly defeated by the Black Mages and their fleet is destroyed before they could be deployed, the Eidolon came after this, play the fucking game and pay attention next time
>No because the difference between the Mages and the Eidolons were that the latter was FAR more devastating, even if the Mages captured Cleyra it wouldn’t have destroyed like Odin did to it, Bermecia was still standing and lots of people were able to flee.
if you actually paid some fucking attention, you would notice that they can't flee down the tree, its swarming with Black Mages who are killing them wholesale, they are making their way up and they will not stop killing, they can't get away, its made perfectly clear they are trapped
maybe a couple could have tried making it down the trunk, but its not likely, very few make it out of Cleyra alive, the Eidolons obviously caused more deaths than without, but for the Cleyrans, it wasn't invasion, it was a slaughter
some Burmecians escaped because it was a city, some probably made it out in the chaos, they didn't have to climb down a tree that was filled to the brim with soldiers
seriously, your "complaints" are so fucking bad at this point

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>she decides that she has to at least try convince her mother, if she failed, worst case she would be locked up, but she doesn't realise that her Eidolons can be extracted, she had no reason to believe any of that was even possible

If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place? How much more evidence did she need, combined with what she'd already known about her mom that drove her out of the castle in the first place?

She ran away from home because she knew her mother was going crazy. It's not such a sudden about-face, Garnet already knew this was going on and was frightened enough that she ran away from home rather than actually talk to her mother (something you'd assume someone that had an otherwise perfect relationship with their mother would do first). Had all of the stuff we'd just witnessed not happened, and Garnet had come to Lindblum without ever fearing her mother or seeing evidence of her mother's atrocities, then the "My mother isn't evil!" reaction would make sense.

What drives me nuts is up until that point, Garnet could have had potential to not suck. At the start of the game, she brilliantly works out an escape plan and improvises a way out on a dime. If that was the Garnet we got for the rest of the game instead of the girl that doesn't know what knives are and thinks evil megalomaniacs can be reasoned with by returning without anyone to back her up, I would have loved her. Instead she devolves into a really cliched naive princess stereotype and just never recovers.

Also Cid knew about the Queen wanting the Eidolons this whole time, not joking, here’s the line directly from the game: "Brahne was after the eidolons. That much, I knew."

It's amazing how X is the polar opposite of IX and managed to start the series' downfall.

By this point, she knows her mother is beyond reason. She knew that because she didn't even try to reason with her when she had the opportunity. Why would her reaction upon having all of these suspicions confirmed, piled onto all the things she just witnessed, be to suddenly decide her mother is reasonable after all and could simply be talked down?

>even with that in mind, nothing fucking changes, the war still continues, the black mage army continues its relentless march

Except that the Black Mages aren’t as powerful as the Eidolons so there would have been much less devastation.

You’re just arguing semantics.

This line says otherwise:

Dagger
"A village of summoners..."
"I read about them in a book once... A tribe that possesses the power to call forth eidolons..."
"Eidolons..."
"Knowing that I had eidolons inside me didn't bring me any joy."
"Mother imprisoned me... used the eidolons she stole from me as tools of war."
"I thought I would kill my eidolons if Kuja was going to use them for war..."
"But now that they're gone... I feel like I've lost a piece of myself..."
"Why am I thinking all this now...?"
"It must be the locations. This place feels so familiar to me somehow..."

Well hopefully a remake will fix that like with VII.

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That doesn't say WHEN she learned that she had eidolons in her.

>If her mother was so darn pleasant that Garnet could have just talked her out of it, why run away from home in the first place?
because its her only option that avoids further bloodshed, a last ditch effort to appeal to her, Garnet loves her mother, she wanted to believe she could make a difference, ultimately it fails, but at the time, she was trying to prevent more war
> instead of the girl that doesn't know what knives are and thinks evil megalomaniacs can be reasoned with by returning without anyone to back her up
it was her fucking mother, not just some "evil megalomaniac" at worst, Garnet likely thought in the worst case scenario that she would be imprisoned, there was no way she could have known her Eidolons could be extracted
>Also Cid knew about the Queen wanting the Eidolons this whole time, not joking, here’s the line directly from the game: "Brahne was after the eidolons. That much, I knew."
nor Cid for that matter, she wanted the Eidolons, but if Garnet wouldn't use them, what use would they be? he likely had no idea about the extraction process, not to mention he didn't just let her leave, he was hit with the sleeping drug too, he also would have tried to stop her, the only reason Steiner didn't is because he still believed in Brahne
>By this point, she knows her mother is beyond reason
no she doesn't, once again, for fucks sake, she's trying to reason with her, Garnet knows Brahne is normally a kind and benevolent monarch, she is behaving abnormally and she desperately tries to reason with her, because at this point, it is the only way she can possibly prevent bloodshed, having no idea of the nefarious plans her mother has for her
>Except that the Black Mages aren’t as powerful as the Eidolons so there would have been much less devastation.
once again, you miss the point, the army of mages was still the leading cause of the problem, the eidolons always came AFTER the black mages, in every scenario

>but you also come across as someone who just really doesn't want to see the virtues in the game and is too stubborn to change that

I do see some virtues, but IX is so full of wasted potential, also I’m irritated by the constant overhype and nostalgia filter this game gets so that’s why I’m a little aggressive.

>Brahne is relatively one dimensional, but she's not the main villain and she does have some character to her, you know she was devastated by her husbands death and then in her grief, Kuja shows up and uses that to manipulate and control her into waging war, Brahne is obviously not of sound mind in this state
>its also known that before the death of her husband, she was a beloved monarch, even after everything that happened, her citizens still send her a rose bouquet for her grave

That is really unrealistic especially for a game that wants to be taken seriously and dramatically, “Final Fantasy? Whatever” had a lot to say about Brahne and her BS motivations:

"Well, then I just exploded. Nooo, no, no. So do not be easy, she left behind a moral event horizon has already bombed when Claire robbed and ordered to chop off the head of Garnet. It is not greed, it is excessive and does not motivated violence, which is no excuse and can not be - and this pathetic attempt to beat the drop of compassion for this dolboslonihe looks shabby."

As stated before it would have been better and more interesting if Beatrix was the Queen and Garnet’s mother instead and would have been a deconstruction, heck, IX should have deconstruction a lot of things, it should have been a fantastic deconstruction of the NES/SNES era.

>Zuja being a shit main antagonist

You shut your whore mouth about Kuja. He did everything fine. The real problem is that you never really get to beat him until the end.

except that for some people, this game ticks all the right boxes, myself included, I found the game to be so full of wonderful charm and heart that I can't help but love it, I've played it many times and I hope to do so for many years
>constant overhype
for a lot of people, this is their favourite final fantasy? why wouldn't they tell people its good? hell FFVII is the subject of constant overhype and I still enjoy that
>nostalgia filter
as I said, I've played this game quite a bit, its not just nostalgia, again, a lot of people love this game, for many reasons, why would you be so mad about people loving a game and trying to share that joy with others
>full of wasted potential
so was FFXV, but I don't go around picking apart every minute detail about it, what you see as wasted potential, I see as a fantastic tale of discovery
sounds like you just can't accept the game for what it is, it might not everything right by you, but for many other people? it does almost everything perfectly
the games not flawless, but I think its still a truly fantastic game, despite its problems, which to me, are few and far in between

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Why are you using a fucking machine translation to make a point about something? It's illegible.

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Damn imagine all the rat cocks she's shoved in there

>now you are just trying to be pedantic, Kuja is an egotistcal narcisist with lofty goals, he's not loyal to Garland despite being created by him, he's a snake, he uses people as he sees fit
>from what we know, Genomes are very long lived, almost to the point of immortal through the eyes of anyone none the wiser about their life spans, Kuja in his egotism, believes he is the only one fit to use the world as he pleases, when he learns that his time is limited, severely so by genome standards, he is enraged, he tries to destroy the world along with himself, he isn't fucking thinking straight
>he's much more interesting than you just slapping the "manchild" label on him for the sake of trying to make them sound worse than they are

Then why does the game suddenly act like he is a tragic character that you’re supposed to sympathize with and completely disregards all his earlier actions which fell into the moustache twirlingly evil category and his cartoonish take over the world goals.

>"Well, then I just exploded. Nooo, no, no. So do not be easy, she left behind a moral event horizon has already bombed when Claire robbed and ordered to chop off the head of Garnet. It is not greed, it is excessive and does not motivated violence, which is no excuse and can not be - and this pathetic attempt to beat the drop of compassion for this dolboslonihe looks shabby."
what did he mean by this?

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When does this happen?

This, basically. If Kuja had an inflated ego, it's because Garland literally created him as the most important creation ever. The second he made Zidane, Kuja got hurt feelings about it.

Not to mention the poorly done love story with Zidane and Garnet that the game pretends is a big deal when it really isn’t.

Sephiroth had more complexity and believability than Kuja did, Kuja was a cartoon villain.

Monkey cock, actually. Zidane probably rides that ass no less than 10 times a day.

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I thought it was alright, aside from a rocky start where Zidane decides he's in love with her just because. Then again, their relationship is kind of supposed to be shallow at the start.

>Then why does the game suddenly act like he is a tragic character that you’re supposed to sympathize with
it doesn't, the most you get is Zidane trying to help him, to return the favour for helping his friends escape, he fails to save him in the end, the most he gets a quiet send off from Mikoto, she says that what he did was wrong, but he proved that a Genome (basically living dolls) could live beyond their basic programming, to dream bigger, she thanks him for that and that alone, Kuja is never portrayed as sympathetic, even after he dies

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>gets made to serve a singular purpose
>gets upset at being compared to the soulless dolls that are his kin
>goes overboard flaunting his individuality
>creator sees his individuality as a threat and creates a replacement
>Kuja gets threatened by this and gets rid of Zidane while also going through with his original plans to hide his attempts at gaining power to overthrow Garland

Honestly, the only problem with Kuja is how his change from "Everyone should die with me" to "I regret what I did" happens entirely offscreen.

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>his entire character can be boiled down to "strong as fuck man learns he is an alien worm baby, then tries to nuke the planet with a meteorite"

A lot of that had to do with him pretty much becoming a reincarnated Jenova.

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>and? that's literally the plot for the entirety of the first disc

With a lot of substance and build up in between though, especially Aerith’s death.

>poorly done
its pretty good to be honest, they have a interesting dynamic that evolves as the game goes on
for the first disc, Garnet is fascinated with Zidane, seeing him as a world wearing and wise adventurer, but put off by his constant attempts to flirt, Zidane himself is doing his best to do right by her, but can't help but hit on her during that time
after disc 2, the two become closer, Garnet is noticably more stern with Zidane, chasting him for hitting on other women (trying to flirt with Lani) but still leans on him for support, Zidane also has calmed down on the flirting, but still trys to put the moves on her, but this is much more playful than before
during disc 3, they are pretty much each others emotional support, he was there when she got her voice back and she was there to help him when he had his soul all screwed up
its relatively well done, not perfect, but there are layers to it
>man learns he is an alien man and goes on a rampage
so this is fine
>man learns of his impending mortality and goes on a rampage
but this isn't?

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You could go in homes, talk to NPC’s and play mini games too you know.

Wrong.

That’s what I found was wasted about the Black Mages, the Mist is actually the spirits of the people of Gaia left on the surface by the Lifa Tree, so then, what state are they in? What's it like? Are they suffering? What about the monsters spawned from the Mist?

Does this mean that the monsters are actually the tormented spirits of Gaia, are they like the Unsent and the Fiends from FFX, spectres driven mad and envious of the living and take the form of beasts, or posses the flora and fauna and mutate and control them? What happens when they get used as fuel and to power machinery, is it like the mako reactors from VII?

Imagine all the things you can do with this, so much creativity and details to expand upon, and it all gets wasted by being reduced to a simple cheap plot device and poor world building.

The Black Mages I felt could have been way more interesting had they actually went into the fact that they were made from the mist (the expelled souls of Gaia), dosen't that mean that the black mages are dead people brought back to life in artificial bodies? What was Vivi originally? Why would they fear death if they technically already died before? (they are basically ghosts placed into artificial bodies) What about their memories of their past lives? Again another interesting concept that gets completely shafted.