Contact damage needs to stop. The only games where contact damage is acceptable are shmups...

retard alert

I think it depends on the game. Pixely games like Cave Story should have contact damage. Hollow Knight has attack animations so that should be all that hurts you.

Sounds like you don't know what spacing is..

t. boomer

Autism.

So enemies can just walk into you for free damage, but somehow that's my fault for not striking them with the exact pixel tip of my sword?

That's right. I've played enough contact damage bullshit titles, to finally get sick of it. I thought video games would ADVANCE over time. Why are we still dealing with contact damage like Ninja Gaiden was the height of gaming?

How many games actually put in-universe justification for contact damage?

yes

/thread

That's fucking stupid. If the enemy is just walking without a care to attack or block or anything, then that's the dev's fault for making shitty AI.
Contact damage is just a cheap solution for their sloppy work.

Yes, git gud

See

See

>for not striking them with the exact pixel tip of my sword?
The size of the nail's hitbox is wider than your character, and you don't have to hit with the tip to avoid enemies.

Hollow Knight's contact damage is still bullshit, but I was thinking of bloodstained. Where some enemies don't even react to you hitting them. So even if you manage to strike first, they just continue to walk into you.

Hollow Knight.

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This is the most retarded thing I've ever read on this board. Contact makes enemies act as physical obstacles. If you could just walk in to them with no consequences, then what's the point of having them there at all? Besides, enemies past starting areas will actively attack you, so contact damage is really only an "issue" in the early game.

go play the superior game then

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>Hardest boss by far in the game doesn't even have contact damage

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>If you could just walk in to them with no consequences, then what's the point of having them there at all?
That's what I'm saying. How poorly designed is your game, that the only way you can devise a threat, is through contact damage? Why aren't enemies more aggressive? Why don't they have attack patterns that force the player to engage?

Look, sure it would be retarded if you could just stand inside and enemy and whack away at them. But there are alternatives to contact damage. The game can still cause the player to stagger if inside the enemy. Forcing them to regain proper spacing. You can still make enemies impassible, so the player can't just walk through them. You can make it so the player's attack is unable to come out if they're overlapping the enemy. But taking damage makes no fucking sense.

It was very hard for me, but ultimately very satisfying. Because attacks were attacks, and it didn't just run into me arbitrarily.

not as far as im aware, but ive been wanting to make a game like that for ages. a game where you have no attacks but loads of movement options, and the enemies are all like bosses with various movesets that you have to dodge around

That's a good point for some games, but others could be better with more passive enemies
I mean, I don't think every Goomba should be like a Hammer Bro or something (not that you are necessairly saying that)

BASED

You make a decent point. But isn't it funny that Miyamoto used a goomba to teach players to jump? That first goomba in Super Mario Bros is the first lesson: jump over enemies.
I find it funny, because the only way to he thought to teach the player was by trial and error. The goomba simply walks into you, and you die. The instinct for many humans isn't to jump over something, unless it identifies itself as a threat. And that's where video games should evolved. The goomba doesn't need a complicated attack. It only needs to appear to threaten the player. A simple biting animation in the direction of the player would indicate that it's dangerous.

Rather than making goombas actually appear threatening with better graphics, they instead opted to stick with their deadpan look.

You are probably right about the Goombas, but what I meant was more about some genres have their gameplays focused more on some other aspects l
I havent played it, but does Celeste have enemies? Since its gameplay look really movement based, I'd guess enemies work more as living obstacles rather than having agressive behavior?

there are a few "boss fights" but there aren't really regular enemies throughout the levels

do you write articles for a living?

The best shmup doesn't even have contact damage.

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OK, fine, a game like Celeste would probably work best if enemies were obstacles. Fine. But that game also kills you instantly, and the entire point is to not get touched even once. You don't "fight" anything. You just survive.

I wish. I waste all my best material on Yea Forums.

Kirby. Both you and the enemy take damage from collisions.

Contact damage isn't even a problem in HK considering they literally have no hit challenges for the bosses and the hardest ones to beat are bosses where contact damage is barely an issue.

Why does Hollow Knight expose so many casuals?

That sounds actually cool user. Godspeed.

I 100% Hollow Knight thought. Contact damage is still retarded.

I love Hollow Knight but I agree. It's a relic from a time where enemies had very simple AI so their only attack was throwing their body at you.
Luckily in Hollow Knight your attack is very fast and you can pogo off enemies.

You'd have to redesign a lot of enemies in the game then. I really don't get why contact damage bothers so many people.

It's a cool concept, I like the idea.

is contact damage a new meme or some shit

ive literally never had any issues with it because it is common sense to not walk into something you're fighting

>You'd have to redesign a lot of enemies in the game then.
Well that's what I want. Contact damage is easier to design, so I get why so many devs rely on it. It's harder to design enemies with engaging patterns of behavior. But it's what I want.

It's not the game's fault you constantly hold forward and mash attack like a fucking moron. It's
a part of the enemy's design. Get good, retard. Plus, Absolute Radiance makes every single boss in that game look like child's play, and she doesn't do contact damage. What's your excuse then?

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Play dead cells, faggot. The enemies dont do contact damage. Doesnt stop it from being balls-to-the-wall level of difficult

Knowing not to touch something, doesn't mean it's a good design. You just learned how to deal with bad design.

Like, for example, there's this big rat in Bloodstained. It doesn't have any attacks. It just walks back and forth. Common sense tells you not to walk into it. But why? Because it merely exists? That's fucking stupid, but alright, let's go with that.

So you manage to hit the rat before it hits you. Except you're not strong enough to kill it in a single blow. So what does the rat do? That's right, it just keeps walking. Right into you. It doesn't bite, it doesn't claw, it barely reacts to your strike, save for tiny stall in it's animation only a few frames.

So now because the rat doesn't have any reasonable behavior programmed for it's AI, you have to attack, and then immediately jump out of the way. Now... you can't jump into the direction it's walking, because then you would land on top of it. And for some reason, even landing on an enemy makes you take damage. But fine. So you try to jump over it, and let it walk under you and out of your way. BUT WAIT, the rat's AI suddenly tells it to turn around while you're mid jump. Now it's walking in the same direction you're jumping, and you can't save yourself, you land on the rat and take damage.

So what do we learn? Only attack the rat 1 of two ways. When it's mindlessly walking away from you, attack it from behind.(It's AI is too stupid to turn around and protect itself from it's attacker) Or, use a weapon/spell that can kill it in one blow. There's no real strategy here. There's no engagement. There's no sense. You're just learning how to get around antiquated enemy behavior.

It's one of those design conventions that's a design convention only because that's the way things have been done for ages and people very often don't give the concept much thought when making a game.

Doesn't bother me much personally, but I can understand why someone would want to see more thought put into contact damage and be disappointed when it feels like it's there just because "well, that's how video games are done, right?"

I heard dead cells is a procedurally generated roguelike, and that sounds way worse than contact damage.

Its either an utterly assblasted cuphead-tier game journalist or some faggot trying to start a meme

You seem confused. He's not complaining about contact damage making games too challenging.

You really are cuphead-tier, arent you? If you were skilled, you'd know to hit it and keep moving so you dont take damage. But nope, skill is ableist or whatever new onions garbage you want to spit out

>whack it
>backstep
>whack it again
Wow so hard

But I 100% Bloodstained, and beat it on nightmare mode. Seriously, you guys keep falling back on this retarded notion that I'm shit, or I can't learn. But I do learn. I'm not going to pretend that I'm the best gamer in the world, but I can get good it I want to. I still love the game. But it would be immeasurably better if the rats had actual behavior coded in.

Mario

>You have to backstep, because the rat just keeps walking mindlessly.
Fucking brilliant.

What's the problem with HK's contact damage? Are you one of those retards that literally let Hornet walk into you?

You have so many tools an iframes jesus christ.

>But I 100% Bloodstained
There's that claim again. Using hacks and cheat engine doesnt count, you fucking idiot
And just because you completed a game doesnt change the fact that your opinion is meaningless drivel that makes no sense

I used no hacks or cheats.
And if completing the game means nothing, then why did you imply I don't have the skills to complete the game?

I don't care about contact damage for slow ground enemies but flying enemies that spazz around in circular patterns and go into walls is most of the damage I take.

>contact damage is lazy and stupid design in most games, for example in this game
>lmao get good
>I did, I beat the game, it's still lazy design
>y-you cheated! what you're saying doesn't m-make any sense!
I'm not bothered by contact damage myself, but good lord this exchange.

Imagine if every game had a medusa head.

I’m always impressed when games don’t have contact damage.

how has nobody said Sonic yet? it's one of the things that differentiated it so much from Mario, as long as you're in the rolled up animation you're a little ball of destruction

If we're talking about Sonic then never mind rolling, let's skip to the boost games where you run fast enough to destroy enemies.

This really isn't in the spirit of the question though.
Rolling/boosting is an attack. Of course enemies would be hurt by that.
You may as well call a kick, or jumping on an enemy's head, or any number of other things "contact damage".

You. I like you

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based
HK is still good tho

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I still don't know what "the last words of the Rusted Dragon" is suppose to mean. Is it tied to that one-time dialogue when unlocking Kagura?

That's just how 2D games are, it doesn't have to make sense, it's just a common convention because of how the camera is. Imagine being able to just sprint by the enemies unless they're in their attack animation? Would completely trivialize it.

Did lack of contact damage trivialize Metal Slug for you?

Imagine if enemies acted in such a way that running from them was tricky and potentially costly. Also, you can just sprint by most enemies in 2D game. Just jump over their heads.

there are plenty of games that don't have contact damage that handle it just fine

Word needs to be spread.