Reminder western/european devs haven't made a good combat system since the PS2 era

>Best combat system and best game since the PS2 era coming through

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>And you didn't play PS2 era God of War which were superior
Never said they weren't. But Nu God of War is hardly simplistic or easy

Duke Nukem 3D is an FPS.

>half life 2
>one button is used
>dark souls
>souls
>bayonetta
>god hand
>one button is used
Can't say about Ninja Gaiden, I don't play shit.

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The Arkham games technically require a few more buttons, yet they're still insanely casual shit games.

And superior to HL2. Western FPS designers have lost their (though Japan only made like one good FPS with Breakdown on the Xbox)

*Western FPS designers have lost their way

God of war alone shits on everything on the right. Are you even trying?

>And superior to HL2.
They are quite different in their designs, don't you think?

Left: real games
Right: fapbait for kumbrains

lol

Considering HL2 came out much later, it should be much superior to Duke 3D.

>Muh east
>muh west
Why do you faggots spend so much time complaining about this shit? Why does it bother you so much?

>superior to duke 3d
Superior? In what way? Better graphics? Better combat? Less shitty hitscan enemies? Less cringey humor? Better tech? Better physical model? Better mod support?

An ability to look up and down?

gave me a chuckle

>DmC over good games

now that is bait

>Less cringey humor?

Oh Half Life 2 still has cringey humor

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>and old father dead in his daughter's arms
>cringey humor
This is your brain on Build Engine

>>and old father dead in his daughter's arms

Pretty hilarious when you consider that Gordon is just standing there, possibly with an open s o y mouth, saying and doing nothing.

>starwmanning with Arkham shit
The only reason people liked that trash is because it was batman.

I've heard idiots say that the Arkham games are "easy to learn, but hard to master", and it's like, what low standard are we setting here?

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>standing there
>camera lying on the ground
Yeah right. He is probably fucking dying - I don't think that advisors simply pinned him to the wall. He didn't know much about the resistance, unlike Alyx, so he is better dead for them.

>God of War games that high

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They didn't actually try to learn it. If they did, they would've known that it is piss easy.
It is just a mantra for people who know jack shit about combat in a game, but want to protect it from criticizm.

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The games combat is simplistic but is satisfying enough to normalfags that they tout that line to feel better about themselves, the game is just mashing square and hitting counter occasionally. Reminds me of witcher combat or botw desu, only replacing counter with dodge.

>>camera lying on the ground
>Yeah right. He is probably fucking dying

Wait. I thought these cringey games were about not taking the control from the player - then Episode 2 ends with taking control from the player to make it more cinematic?

These Shit Life games lol

>It is just a mantra for people who know jack shit about combat in a game, but want to protect it from criticizm.

Sounds about right, there are very few games I'd say "easy to learn, but hard to master", because it is kind of a meaningless phrase with no context - but the worst kind of YouTubers and Yea Forums posters bandy it about like it's candy

>Souls games
>deep combat

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Ever play an Assy Creed game? Only western game that kinda feels comparable, as most other Souls western games are just flatout ripoffs.

The final boss of Assy Creed 2 has you punching the pope in the face while monologuing. It's absolute shite.

>these cringey games were about not taking the control from the player
Dunno, it happens a few times in the original and in the sequels, you get blocked/imprisoned and shit like that. HL mantra is about not taking the camera from Gordon's eyes, not about making you omnipotent and invincible to imprisonment or whatever.
>I thought
Your own thought lul
>but the worst kind of YouTubers and Yea Forums posters bandy it about like it's candy
Well, they are mostly used when they talk about Arkham, Mordor or shit like that. I have to admit, Shadow of War indeed has an easy to learn and hard to master combat, because the longer you play it, the harder it becomes to stand the combat system.

I mean, most games combat is simplistic as fuck if you boil it down to the basics
>Attack
>Dodge
>Attack
>Dodge
>let stamina regen
>Repeat
Witcher is worse just because the stamina bar is used for your handful of shitty spells, sprinting outside of combat or the "hold attack to twirl around like a tard hitting everything" attack. Otherwise you can dodge and swing your sword as much as you want, which just means there's less time spent hanging back while letting it recharge.

Good combat mechanics require good bosses. Japan is great at bosses

Western devs are fucking TERRIBLE at them. Western bosses are so terrible, it's considered a good thing for FPSes to not have bosses.

>Western devs are fucking TERRIBLE at them

most of the time. Mr Freeze in Arkham City is the last time I fought a good Western boss fight

Mr. Freeze is not a good boss fight. He's a good gimmick, but he's basically a checklist. I had to use a guide because there are so many little ways to take down regular guys in the game, I never considered using most of them because the stealth is so easy.

The problem with the Arkham games is that the core combat cannot be used to fight any sort of enemy or boss like you can with Dark Souls games.

The Deathstroke and Bane fights in Origins use normal combat

>Origins
>Not AA or AC which relied entirely on gimmick fights and not made by Rocksteady

Really makes you think

Also forgot to mention, Arkham fans tend to hate Origins for some reason

>dodge
You don't dodge in Dark Souls. You use i-frames to go through enemies attacks.

Because it didn't bring in something new, except for extremely OP electrogloves of resurrection.
I hope they now enjoy all the great new things like tank shit.

Nips even make better shooters than the westerners. Look at Vanquish.

that is a dodge

and I still hate how DaS2 fucked with the iframes

Just as it is in any other 3D-action game with dynamic combat and dodges.

>what is Monster Hunter
Yeah, you can get more i-frames that make "dodging" through attacks viable but with default i-frames you actually need to evade most attacks.

>Admits the boss is more of a puzzle than a brawl
>Admits he had to use a guide because the puzzle was too hard for him to figure out without a crutch
>Thinks his opinion matters
Fuck off, retard.

You do realise that Freeze requires you to do things you never commonly use, right? Like putting Batman on the railing and having him use his feet on the necks of criminals.

When I'm talking about boss fights, I mean real boss fights in games like Dark Souls that use the games core mechanics.

City’s bosses were still pretty good if only for the presentation and satisfying takedowns
>beating up Ras al Ghul with a hundred punches
>cutting through Clayface with a sword and freezing him
>ripping Grundy’s heart out of his chest

The thing I like about this is there's so much unpopular opinion that you wouldn't even think of putting as bait, I'm convinced these are your actual personal opinions of each game.

Putting Bayo 2 over Bayo 1, that's a bait opinion. Putting DmC above God Hand, that's a bait opinion. But putting Castlevania Lords of Shadow above TW101? That's not meant to get a rise out of anyone, that's just an opinion.

Good for you for actually having opinions of games instead of just reciting the Acceptable Action Game Ranks that everyone else on Yea Forums does. I actually agree with some of your unpopular opinions. You're still wrong as fuck for putting Bayonetta 1 that low, though, and for failing to include Transformers Devastation.

I know. Still, it works through i-frames a lot of times.

This is the worst action game tier list I have ever seen in my entire life.

I'd say HL2 doesn't count simply because it's meant to be more of a tech demo. Valve has always wanted other devs to use their engine, and the HL games are supposed to show what it's capable of.

But, the games on the left have also sold more than the games on the right, so what incentive is there to make a better combat system? Japanese games are also getting worse in other areas like with face scanning, microtransactions, etc.

>What do you mean I can't use light light light strong to beat this boss?! The game only mentioned the other combos once!
Bosses are supposed to be tests of everything the game taught you, if you weren't paying attention you deserve to have your progress blocked until you figure it out. Even DS uses status effects and boss resistances/weaknesses to force the player to change up their build or go looking for an item before they stand any kind of chance against a particular road block.

Let me explain to you: You don't fight Freeze with the standard combat system, you use the stealth system, which has too many moves for how easy it is to take down enemies.

God Hand is really overrated
The camera is shit, there’s barely any enemy variety, and the combat is fine but got old real fast
The only things that hold up are the wacky characters and story and how over the top absurd it can be at times

people use status ailments on bosses in Dark Souls?

Wasn't the remake done by fans of the game and ex devs, not people representative of commercial video game development of the last 25 years?

I actually agree. The fucking tank controls ruined God Hand for me, I can't ever get more than minor enjoyment from it

Darksiders series

FILTERED

Honestly I also really hated all the fixed camera angles in the DMC games prior to 5, they just weren't bad enough to completely ruin the experience.

It's amazing how important a good camera is and how many early classic action titles botched it so spectacularly.

t. combo autist

Reminder that regionwar threads are shitty, bait threads and should be banned

Who gives a single flying shit if the game is from nipland or burger land or europoor land

Camera talk always gets thrown around but I've never really heard any one mention what a good camera is. As long as it's a free orbit camera that you control your self, the worst that happens is that you bundle into a corner and it bumps on the geometry.

>DMC3 at the top
10/10 made me reply

arch.b4k.co/v/search/image/aAPDllMcERnNvVuUmtrJkg/
Half the threads like this one are made by a single autistic spammer.
Even this template shit is spammed on this board by the same person.

DMC3 has the best Devil Arms in the series and the level design is top notch. DMCV suffers from bloated and weak additions to Dante while V is just terrible to play as.

in the arkham combat sphere, i think the nu spider-man bosses were pretty good in terms of presentation, gameplay, and not being too gimmicky even though they were pretty simple.
>fighting vulture and electro mid air
>dodging rhino at the right time and letting him knock out scorpion
>swinging around and throwing debris back at doc ock before punching him out on the side of the building

Darksiders 2 had a pretty nice combat system.
Shame about everything else

>DMC3...level design is top notch.
It lacks variety and then you have awful levels like mission 15. It's technically impressive but falls flat.

>Not noting DMC3's best asset
>The music
LIFELESS CORPSE AS FAR AS THE EYE CAN SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>made a good combat system since the PS2 era
What was the last good western made video game? I think it was... oh I can't remember

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5 Dante is the best gameplay in the entire series and I’d rather play through 5’s hallways than the atrocity that is Mission 15
Agree about V though he was terrible

team fortress 2 has good combat.

V is the soul reason why i coudlnt do a 2nd or 3rd playthrough

Monster Hunter World is an unoptimized crap with repetitive monsters and shit world design
Devil Meme Cry 5 is a parody of DmC 2
Resident Evil 7 is a walking simulator made for american edgy teens

WHEN WILL CAPCOM MAKE A DECENT GAME AGAIN?

Dialate then neck yourself tranny

>YEARNING MORE TO HEAR THE SUFFER OF A
>OF A DEMON AS I PUT IT UNDER

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>one game

whoa...

how can DMC5 be a parody of a game that never existed?

I meant DmC 1 + the ideas they had for DmC 2

First Person is very limited in what you can do with game play. Turns out only seeing a small section of every area is conducive to only very specific kinds of design, Japan figured this out on the Genesis with Zero Tolerance (which was more impressive than games like doom), so there's not much reason to iterate.

The west uses it for different reasons, not its quality design but its addictive properties. It has little potential.

So basically nothing besides the muted colors and the fight finale slo-mo.

>PhD in gaming
Which cringecuck wrote this?

put ffxiv on the right
even handicapped people with big brain can play shit like machinist in that game, meanwhile low iq retards wish fully functional limbs can't play the easiest job

its making fun of what DmC2 would have been

could Batman outsmart Kratos?

A 2nd playthrough is worth it for the added difficulty and Nero’s DT and DB being unlocked
Just power through the V missions to get to the good stuff

>Darksiders 3 over Darksiders 2
Nigga I’m gonna fucking smack you

>Love Half Life 2, Arkham Asylum
>Love Ninja Gaiden, God Hand and Bayonetta

Reminder that "Us or Them" mentality is for absolute retards.

Most people could outsmart Kratos

A westerner is advancing the action genre as we speak:

youtube.com/watch?v=uNBPDaMUvJs

It's like dmc combined with arkham, and it's fucking amazing!

>Arkham Asylum

>loving a game with shit combat made for retards and starring shitty characters like Batman

Jesus

Unbelievably excellent taste user

(you)

Wow it looks awful!

>western console games

Found the majority of your problem,

luv 'alf life
luv arkham
luv ninja gayden
luv god 'and
luv bayonetta

'ate the us or them mentality
simple as

>GOW1 above 3
How?

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>Thinks the appeal of Asylum is the combat and not the stealth gameplay which perfect translates Batman taking thugs one by one while they lose their shit

I'm sorry for you being so fucking insecure you need to start calling the Lord's name over someone like video games, user. Go outside and smell the resos, it'll help calm down that pulsating vein in your forehead

You’re joking right? Because GoW4 combat was literally spam runic, run, spam runic. All the good combos from prior games were relegated to runics.

>those sound effects

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>premise vs perspective
This doesn't even make sense. These are usually funny but this one sucks.

????? I didn’t mention nuGOW at all

It looks amazing. Where is your action game advancing the genre, hmm?

>GoW 4
>easy simplistic combat with one button used
Oh you retard.

why is okami even on this list

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The combat is a major part of the games though, and it sucks ass and is made for literal imbeciles.

Oh shit, my bad. GoW1 had better plot and puzzles than 3.

Most of those games are console not PC. PC sucks.

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Thats terrible
Too floaty, hits have no impact and those animations are trying too hard to look cool and little else

Unironically TLOU has 10 times better combat than KH3. I don't understand why you even bring this shit.

>MGR above Bayonetta, GoW3 better than 4
Hahaha

The plot in 1 was very basic and relied too much on flashbacks and puzzles were always the worst part of the series
GOW3 has the best combat and bosses of the series hands down that’s what really matters in these games

real comedian hours

Is not even out yet how can you know?

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It's futuristic, how do you expect it to sound?

>generic third person shooter has better combat than an action RPG

Sure, KH3's combat isn't great compared to 2FM's but that is still a dumb statement

GoW4's "combat" is axe throw and press a button to slide up to your enemy like you are on ice to hit them

TLOU has your basic point & click combat and single button melee combat. It has sway to make aiming even more tedious than it is with a controller. TLOU combat is remarkably simple and uninteresting.

Yes, all western games are carbon copied first person shooters while nips never evolved beyond their turn-based combat crutch that is featured in literally every nip franchise except in the cherrypicked examples of this thread :^).

We have this shitty thread every day

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Not like stock cartoon punches

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>western/european devs haven't made a good combat system since the PS2 era
Indies exist whether you acknowledge them or not. Also Arkham games' combat isn't deep beyond basic pattern recognition but it along with the movement, stealth, and detective stuff does a good job at making you feel like Batman. A game can be good without having deep combat, and I say that as somebody that loves deep combat.

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No one gives a shit Mikey

The hits have great impact and the animations are ssstylish as fuck

Minecraft is the ultimate chad game, you cannot prove me wrong. Japan can't even compete

>making you feel like Batman

Why would anyone want to feel like a mentally deranged cuckold that goes out at night in a bat costume and refuses to actually kill the one criminal who deserves to die more than anyone?

Stop trying to shill your shit game

>freedom wars
>best anything

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>GoW4's "combat" is axe throw and press a button to slide up to your enemy like you are on ice to hit them
Yeah let's forget about combos, juggles, aiming at weak points, staggers, finishers, parries, magic attacks, fist attack, shield attacks, fist attacks, Atreus bow usage, different builds with different stats, different abilities for different moves, running attacks, spartan rage attacks, using environment, etc, yeah.

Nope, Balrog shits on most Devil Arms in 3, Cavalier as well. King Cerberus is a direct upgrade. DMC5 doesn't suffer from all the poor balance and design decisions 3 has like useless DT, horribly balance difficulty, and shit enemies.

Imagine not enjoying aiming and shooting at stuff.

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>Witcher 3
>rewards exploration

Yeah boy all those "?"s dotting the entire map that are nothing but generic leveled loot.

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>Indies exist whether you acknowledge them or not.
They still aren't good. The only "indies" worth caring about are Japanese.

Lets forget about them because they are a waste of energy and the game never requires them.

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Based and indiepilled

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>Lets forget about them because they are a waste of energy and the game never requires them.
I can say this about any hack n slash game. Your argument is very dumb.

Imagine having to play the casual version of aiming and shooting at stuff

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What a horrifying fucking bait list, jesus christ...

>japan
>combat depth
the last 30 years of JRPGs would like to have a word with you
you know, the games that japs actually buy and play, not the ones they make and market for westerners?

Last one

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furry is trash

>aiming and shooting in 3D space against human opponents
>more casual than aiming and shooting on a 2D plane against extremely basic AI

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>GoW
>shooter
What a retard, holy shit.

realistic character locomotion basically killed arcade-like gameplay. Moving a character in unnatural ways creates a noticeable "floaty" dissonance. Unsurprisingly, this very board often makes fun of games for the same thing. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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>Draggy D that high
I loved it but do people really think that game was that good? It had a fun combat system but just about everything else was garbage.

You have more chances of being hit on a 2d plane than in a 3d one

Whats wrong with retards thinking souls games have somewhat engaging combat

they are all the same??

that's console marketing for you
normies lap that shit up, they buy things based on covers, OH BOY GAME OF THE YEAR, CRITICALLY ACCLAIMED, 10/10 POINTS FROM TACO BELL? THIS HAS TO BE GOOD, I'M GONNA BUY IT, PLAY IT 2 HOURS AND NEVER TOUCH AGAIN, that's basically what your average consumer does
People genuinely into the hobby of playing games at least do some research before purchasing a game, look at gameplay videos, people's opinions, recommendations etc.
Impulse purchases are for the npc's to do.

>Octopath Traveler
>amazing graphics

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If by trash you mean one of the greatest action games of the decade then yeah

What about Spider-Man?

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newfags, anyone with any experience at all with games prior to 7th gen knows souls combat is simplistic as fuck.

Fight N Rage
>a few moves that are well balanced and can be combined in a shitton of ways to create combos
>aggressive enemies that surround and kill you in seconds on higher difficulties, very dynamic
>extra damage from combos is genuinely useful
>3 very different characters
>amazing sense of impact

Why do indie devs even bother making mediocre DMC knockoffs when they could make solid classic 2D brawlers with less workload and better results.

Souls combat is more engaging than DMC

engagement =/= theoretical depth

Oh, figured it all out because it was terrible fps game made by fucking AMERICANS?

the only good thing in this image on the west side is half-life 2, how pathetic is that?

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>dude, I love tetris but the graphics are trash and the story so bad and convoluted that I have to give it 4/10
>Oh yeah, I love pong but the graphics are kinda shitty and the story is nonexistent, 3/10
>pacman is an okay game but the story's just stupid and it looks like a PS2 game, 4/10
>Yeah I bought this fighting game called Tekken 3 but is fighting really all they do? I thought there was at least racing levels in this game? 6/10, not enough gameplay variation.

>Souls combat is more engaging than DMC
Actually its the other way around

>engagement =/= theoretical depth
And this is the reason why

>DMC3 has the best Devil Arms in the series
Balrog is just plain better than Beowulf in every way outside of the ability to charge every attack, and if you want that then Ifrit is better as well. Cavalier is the Nevan replacement in that it's got a weird and interesting playstyle that needs to be learned to be made useful and while Nevan is God Tier I like Cavaliere more. King Cerberus has just about every mode the original did and half a dozen or so more. DSD adds multiple layers of complexity to Dante while Rebellion & Sparda are still available for the sake of the classic move mapping. Even when it comes to guns, Double KA is far superior to 3's KA, E&I have never been better, Coyote is about on par with 3&4's except with more moves (1 shotty still the best), and if you learn Faust instead of dumping orbs on cheesing things for B-Ranks then it's at least as interesting as Artemis. 3 only has the plus of having more individual weapons available; A&R and Spiral are both fantastic without analogues in 5.
>level design is top notch
Being in one tower the entire time except for Leviathan & Hell Missions doesn't mean it's good level design. 1 is good interconnected level design, 3's is decent at best. 5's level design is very straight-forward by comparison but I'd rather that then something more connected that's fumbled, even if I wish there were a few more puzzles in later Missions that aren't to get Secret Missions. 5's Mission 7 is one of the best Missions in the entire series for the record; it might be my favorite in terms of the actual level design.
>V is just terrible to play as
I really am surprised that this many people still hate to play as V. He's busted on lower difficulties but once the difficulty hits you and you need to learn him more in-depth he's actually pretty fun to use, and his time in the game is not overstayed. Maybe it's because I tried to remap my controls until he felt natural; I ended up putting Griffon & Shadow on my Triggers.

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>Like putting Batman on the railing and having him use his feet on the necks of criminals.
thats literally used in the stealth tutorial

>All games from a region of the world are bad, even those that buck almost every common design trend emblematic of the major developers of that region
>"Let's forget about them" in response to mechanics in an action game because they aren't always necessary when a vast majority of good action games give you more tools than you need to win
>Posts fucking Senran Kagura gameplay
I really hope this is just good bait that I've fallen for.

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Cmon man, For Honor is genuinely a good game. The rare occasion when west makes anything good. Its release was severely mismanaged and through Ubisoft's jewfuckery monetization and decisions, it died with a whimper on release but it has managed to gather a considerable community behind it by improving the game vastly

It’s simple but there’s a good variety of options for combat
>rolling
>blocking
>parrying
>giant weapons
>ranged weapons
>weapon skills
>sorceries
>miracles
>pyromancy

fuck off, draggy d has a ton of flaws for it to get a fucking S rank. I'd agree to a solid B and maybe even an A. But come the fuck on. All those other games are fucking classics that everyone has heard of but few people outside of Yea Forums reference draggy d. and before you try to act like a gatekeeping faggot, I had a level 200 character and did literally every piece of content that game had and then repurchased it when it came out for PC. It's a great game but it's not an S lol you have ridiculously low standards if that id your gold tier.

Pretty much all the great indie action games I can think of from the last several years are 2D. You mentioned Fight'N Rage already, Aztez was posted already, Aces Wild is really good.

I admit I haven't played Furi or Nelo, and I hear those are good. IIRC they both inject a bit of a top-down shooter thing into the gameplay though.

doom: you play as a space marine stranded on a moon base that's slowly being overrun with demons and the only way to stop them is to venture further into hell and stop them at the source
mario: a guy runs left or right and can jump

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The game's literally only about the combat and that's the part that's good, so

I wouldn't put it that high but the cast of characters you meet are interesting and in a way pretty fleshed out for how relatively short the game is for an RPG, which connects to the greater secrets of the world that are revealed being really interesting and pretty unique for a high fantasy setting. The music is also pretty damn great and I find Bitterblack as a whole pretty well-designed in terms of both gameplay & lore. Dragon's Dogma fails as an RPG but it still manages to be a great game.

oh yea. i'm not here to shit on draggy d, i agree with everything you said about. I can still fire that shit up on PC and have a great time.
i honestly have no idea what that tier chart is ranking the games by so if it's purely on combat mechanics, out of those games listed I guess that's fair

in 3d space developers only give you a handful of enemies to fight. 2d space it's possible to keep track of a lot more, making it require far more mental dexterity. In most 3D games you're tracking 1-3 targets. In a 2D shooter you're tracking dozens. 3D just isn't built to handle fast, intelligent game play. It's meant to be simplistic and wow you with graphics, not content.

You can dismiss all western games and safely only miss about 12 games worth playing. A small loss.

FUCK OFF. YOU'RE SO WRONG I'VE GOT NOTHING LEFT BUT RAGE.

so like every other third person combat game in this world?

Die

I don't like the sequels, though. Because they go retarded open world instead of an Metroid style progression and lose focus while focusing mostly on the combat. Asylum had the perfect balance.

Floatiness is less about something feeling janky and fast and more about things seeming slow and sluggish, almost like you're trying to move in water or something.

Asylum and City have the same gameplay though. I agree the the mansion design of the place in AA is comfy, but they're the same, though AA is harder than AC, but due more to limitations I think

>this thread again

>deep combat
>Souls

Jesus you Soulsfags are delusional.

Also
>Godhand
>Ninja Gaiden

Man you people will do anything to avoid admitting Sekiro exists

I made this before Sekiro and that's a Japanese game so it has to be good

Is that sakuna/setsuna and rice farming? Did that fucking thing finally release and I missed it?

This trip󠛡cuck goes into every Souls thread to cry.

>witcher 3
>east
literal brain dead post

ok 2dbabby.

quake takes mores skill than doom and duke.

For some reason i'm addicted to Batman and Spider-Man combat systems.

I love me some Ninja Gaiden Black.

My first and only DMC game is 4 and i didn't enjoyed it much, but i'm still figuring out the controls.

Exanima

>For some reason i'm addicted to Batman and Spider-Man combat systems.

Well they're flashy with an instant reward feeling

I sometimes play them when I need an easy, brainless game.