It literally took me a cumulative hour and a half to do Ryu's 10th challenge. After banging my head against it in sheer frustration it finally worked, and when it did I felt no accomplishment, so sense of skill. And I still don't actually know how to play the game. Jumping into a match with the AI makes any muscle memory I may have gained go right out the window and I can't replicate any of this shit
Am I just not cut out for fighting games? Should I give up? This is miserable
If you don't find enjoyment from the grind of getting good at then fighting games are not for you, but combo trials are maybe not the best indication of that.
what part did you find hard? it's literally just muscle memory and knowing the correct timings, anyone can do it with practice
fighting games have garbage, arbitrary inputs. fighterfags will defend this because sunk cost fallacy
One of the problems with fighting games is that they do an awful job of teaching you how to play them.
Combo trials specifically are the absolute worst way to """learn""" fighting games, because they don't actually teach you how to land a hit in a real match.
The first thing you should be learning in ANY fighting game is your NORMAL moves for your character and which one is best for anti air, long range poke, high priority etc. The second thing you learn is HOW TO BLOCK CORRECTLY. You should be learning these things first before any complex elaborate combos.
>what part did you find hard?
On that particualr challenege it was the seemingly random chance of back heavy kick landing after the v trigger. I figured out that you had to move forward a bit after the first kick, but even then it rarely seemed to work. That and the fact there's a unique forward heavy punch means that would come out instead of the nuetral heavy punch due to having to walk forward
I mean I get that once you know the timing you can do it, but my issue is that none of it felt natural to do. Felt more like I was fighting the controls than playing the game
yeah its going to take you forever to not suck dick so if you are not willing to put in the time forget about it now
i dont play ryu but i remember doing the trials in like 10 minutes when i was farming for fight money, they were easy as fuck too
Took me 3 solid hours to do this, never again.
t. shitter
Then explain FANTASY STRIKE which has all those inputs put away?
No worries dude! Over at /r/streetfighter we have a nice community for Street Fighter 5 and we can help you get better! You're not alone fighter!
This is just how it always is, you have to keep playing matches to actually be good. No one grinds training mode and hops into online or local play and can actually do the stuff you just practiced on a dummy. That only happens to people with prior fighting game knowledge
It's nice that you have a couple of combos that you can do, but you won't pull them off in a real match for a long time. You should still practice it though.
Every day, go into training mode and do a bunch of fireballs and shoryus to get the inputs in your muscle memory and then practice the combos you know a couple of times then go play some matches. Sooner or later you'll just have it ingrained
How to learn fighting game fundamentals
Step 1: Don't play Street Fighter 5
The accomplishment is the fact that you were capable of completing it.
Add 100+ hours and weeks of training and you should be good enough to start playing online
I don't really play SFV so i could be wrong but
>wasting time on combo trials
Nigger unless you enjoy that shit stop. 99% of fighting games teach you the most unoptimal and hard to land combos in them.
What they really need to do is have you pull it off on like a very hard AI and actually teach you combos you are likely to pull of in a real match.
Step 2: Play Ultra Fight Da! Kyanta 2.
Tekken doesn't have that stupid shit. Opening up an opponent rewards you with an easy to do combo. Guessing/punishing correctly and then launching your opponent for a combo shouldn't be a punishment. I don't advise you to play any fighting games, that entire genre is fucking shit thanks to arcades and couch 1vs1's being a thing of the past. But if you are gonna spend thousands of hours in that shitty genre, at least play the best game in it. Or look forward to the new Guilty Gear which is supposed to be much easier for new players.
based
You are like a little baby.
>the vega and balrog trials that are pure rng
>the fucking dhalsim trials
>gen
Just playing fighterz or smash user. Complex enough ceilings with simple commands.
If you can't pull of a quarter circle, something I've observed a 5 year old child learning to do, you probably have bigger problems than getting gud at fighters anyways.
Honestly, there's no other active fighting game this gen that's better than SFV for a fighting game newbie in terms of core fundamentals. It has the least amount of bullshit and the game is the right speed to properly process information. Every other option outside of going back to the old games is a bunch of anime games that push the boundary too much
t.shitter whose surface-level knowledge doesn't reach Akatsuki Blitz
This is actually easy as fuck to do in KOF because you can actually buffer the inputs.
The combos the game (and many others) teach you are very situational and sometimes too complicated for nothing. You'll want to look at simpler but efficient BnBs online, practice them in training mode until you're comfortable enough with them, play online and improve from there.
I personally believe that the best "modern" game for learning fighting game fundamentals right now is Samurai Shodown
You can have terrible combo execution and still win matches on pure fundamentals alone
Truth. Fightan autists will deny this.
>that one vega trial where you had to link 4 cr.lps in a row
The dan trials also had some rng shit
mad respect for this, hammer fall cancel combos are hard as FUCK
this is the hardest trial i've ever done. i've only managed it once, and it took me a week of solid trying every day.
How long until fighting games die out or become much easier due to the high entry level of skill?
Fighting games are hard, but don't give up. You don't need to be able to do every combo right off the bat, take it slow and work on it. Over time, you will eventually be able to do all those combo's in your sleep.
Nah the best is Ultra Fight Da Kyanka 2 and Fantasy Strike. It's just all fundamentals and one button specials so you just need to know neutrals and spacing and learning to read.
fighting games are already becoming easier
Ahh you know what, that game slipped my mind. I'll give you that one.
>have to do his kara bullshit on every move for some of the trials
Ken was cool as fuck
combo trials are garbage. you are learning muscle memory for a combo you won't use and that's it. you aren't learning how to play.
literally just learn a few basic combos from youtube or wherever the fuck and then jump into some games and figure out how to play. anything that frustrates you that you can't figure out how to beat, take a break, look up how to beat it, possibly practice a little, and then get back into it.
I think it's important to learn the theory. Just playing matches won't always wake someone up to how frame data works, or even relatively simple shit like when to grab or what a crossup is. I think it's a good idea to play a few different games' tutorial modes and watch some instructional videos and look for parallels between games.
The combo trials usually have a few decent bnbs buried under a mandatory jumping heavy or crush counter.
yes they do, and it seems arcsys has realized that with their much easier inputs in dbfz, bbtag, and granblue versus.
play 3rd strike
How can I get into fighting games if I get bored with playing the same stages after an hour?
> you can actually buffer the inputs.
*blocks your path*
If you want to play a fighting game where the stages matter, play Smash
(Or Tekken if you're gonna be anal about whether or not Smash is a fighting game)
Mugen and openbor
>could do all of chun's trials virtually blindfolded
>get stuck on makoto hayate cancels for hours
took me 3 years to finish C.Vipers final trial with the triple ground pound cancel bullshit
Don't listen to other people, trials are a very good way to start learning how the link system works in streetfighter, BUT they are right about most of those combos being useless in actual matches. I suggest looking up on youtube"ryu bread and butter combos" to see what combos are actually useful
Congratulations. You don't have autism
Challenges is not how to learn fighting games. This is how you learn fighting games:
>look up Ryu's basic punish combo for when the opponent does something unsafe in your face
>train this combo in training mode for one hour and until you can do it ten times in a row
>Once you are done, program your training dummy to do random jumps
>shory the dummy for 10 minutes
>hit online
>focus on beating your opponent using fireballs and shory
>use punish combo when they do something stupid in your face
>keep count on how often you did your punish combo
>rinse and repeat
Fighting games is about sticking out buttons and having the other guy get hit. You can't learn that in training mode. Combos are there to capitalize on the other guys mistakes, which means less times mistakes needed to win the game. You can't learn to stick buttons in his face in training mode though, but you can grind one specific combo until you can do it in a real match. The first combo you need to learn is your punish combo.
The only reasonable way to learn a fighting game is to sit down with a mate who already knows it and have them teach you.
The best fallback is to find some youtube videos I guess where they cover the basics.
The absolute worst way to learn is training mode and trials. Learn how the game works because you dive into that bullshit.
combos are fun tho
do modern fighting games visually show when to press the buttons in these practice combos? should be able to let the player choose to have the character flash a color or something during the window you need to execute the next move. that was the most frustrating part of learning. i'm fine with practicing but i hated not even being able to tell if i was going too late or early
THIS
Mortal Kombat 11 does this. Its tutorial has prompts to tell you if your inputs were too early or too late.
nigger we get it you recorded a combo 11 days ago that you liked. quit posting it in every fighting game thread.
Play fucking Samurai Shodown if combos are too much for you. You should learn fundamentals first before learning combos, because combos are useless on their own if you don't know where and when to use them.
>arbitrary
Nigga you need a dictionary?
you're really proud of this webm arent you? I thought it was alright until the 10th time you posted it and realized it was just attempt 1,000,001 on a practice dummy.
Play Samurai Shodown then? Also ignore that more inputs mean more moves, which is always great.
It is not a game's fucking responsibility for you to experiment with what should be based off observational skills. You should be able to tell that startup matters, the faster the move, the shorter the range, etc. You should not be LEARNING spacing on your own. The game tells you what a counter hit is? You should lab it out and figure out how to land it. Getting hit when you wake up? Maybe fucking block then.
There is only so much a game should have to hold your hand. Especially when it lets you lab everything out.
Play Third Strike, preferably the PS3 version. You'll find out whether you're meant for fighting games or not. Movement is much more satisfying too, and the animation is incredible.
Love the unblockables.
>when it did I felt no accomplishment
Fighting games are not for you.
I know this is bait but for people who believe this, just know that they've tried making fighters for people like you and you didn't play them anyways. inputs for special moves are also a way to balance the game. I bet you'd have a lot of fun playing against a guile who can shoot sonic booms and do flash kicks with a single button at any time
blazblue centralfiction has very arbitrary inputs. even if a character doesn't use all or any quartercircle motions, they'll add harder motions like z-motions or halfcircles where you slice across to the other side at the end to the moves. they didn't try to fill up the easy motions before moving to the harder ones.
>I deserve to be able to block in the middle of my opponents combo just because
Unless you're referring to Aegis Reflector, which I'm pretty sure is blockable, you should know why this is a bad way to think about fighting games.
Challenges and trials are useless outside of seeing what a character is capable of on a fundamental level. They are not meant to teach you what you should be doing or how to properly play
not really im just too lazy to make more considering i spend most of my time just playing the game. You are right tho i do really like that combo.
This. You get a literal training mode specifically for this shit.
"difficulty/time to input" is a legitimate balancing factor, user
and even then, some characters are BETTER off having more complex inputs, because blazblue isn't a fucking simple game
example: Naoto's distortions are genuinely better off being 632146 instead of 63214 because the 6 at the end makes it easier to buffer 6321466 to get the dash-enhanced version
Play Gief
moves are not about ease of use, they're about personality. A spastic character should have spastic moves for example.
it wasn't bait, yet you still fell for what you thought was bait. it's a perfectly reasonable opinion on the matter of inputs for fighters that quite a large chunk of people on this board argue for.
Being hit by a character on one side and a fireball on the other is a forced guard break in 3s. I'm surprised you'd know the name of aegis reflector but didn't know that. It's basically the main premise of Urien's character at a high level.
>remember picking up SF4 because I saw my friends playing it
>hadn't played anything street fighter since 2 in some arcade
>picked M.Bison because i recognized him from the movie/game
>coasted by for months in ranked eating up peoples points by just spamming standing heavy kick
>when i played my friends who one of was a self admitted "street fighter veteran", none of them could work out how to get past the standing heavy kick
a lot of controllers and friendships were broken because of this
it is only a relevant balancing factor in neutral, where it needs to be quickly or easily thrown out, which is not the case of distortions for the most part. it doesn't matter how complicated an input is during a combo because you have quite a lot of time to input the memorized motion during that combo and no one person will be better than another at inputting that motion to relevant degree once the combo has been memorized.
that makes sense but i didn't really see any themes they just seemed to give people z-motions before quartercircles a lot of the time.
mirror is normally blockable but you can get hit on the left and the right simultaneously in 3S and then either direction you try and block, you'll get hit. You have to parry, or more realistically, avoid getting knocked down in a way that leads to an unblockable setup.
twitter.com
What this user said x100. The Unblockable was actually patched believe it or not, but 3s players refused to play the updated version competitively.
>needs to be quickly or easily thrown out
>which is not the case of distortions for the most part
do you not realize how many distortions are reversals?
If this is your first fighting game, you are going to start out with trouble. You'll probably end up at the bottom of the leaderboards for a while, but as long as you know how to learn, and dont just spam shoryuken in all situations, you're bound to climb eventually. Join a discord and ask for some practice games with people from your region, that's the quickest way to learn other than having a local scene
I miss sf4
Urien is a high-ish tier in unpatched 3s, oro is on the high end of mid. Removing unblockables doesn't touch oro (because his other super is good too) but it dropped Urien down to low. If you think about unblockables as "one long combo" there's nothing really unfair about them desu. They're really hard to set up and exploit and they're not guaranteed.
can't you buffer (not sure if i'm using this word correctly) that in wakeup or blockstun so it's not really an issue with how fast you can throw it out? i was thinking of throwing it out raw while you're dancing with each other which i didn't think would happen at all.
I don't play Blazblue but just a few things.
1. Blazblue isn't every fighting game, so saying every fighting game has arbitrary inputs isn't accurate.
2. inputs are typically harder to execute if they're higher impact OR for specific scenarios. There's a reason there are DP's that are done through a fireball motion. There's also no DP that's used using a reverse DP motion.
I'm saying Urien is cool lol. Never said they were unfair, I said earlier "Love the Unblockables" and I really meant it. That stuff in any fighting game is sick.
you can buffer it from wakeup, but the point is that it's a lot harder to buffer it in blockstun or in neutral (invincible moves are absolutely useful in neutral) when it takes longer to input
i did not say that all fighters were arbitrary. i was just providing an example of a game with obviously arbitrary inputs for the dude questioning the word choice.
the matter of inputs being harder for higher impact i don't really agree with, but like i stated with some other user the inputs should not be relevant unless it directly applies to neutral use and not the "skill level" of a memorized combo or anything. and even then i don't fully agree with making the complexity a balancing factor, but i won't say it's not a good balancing factor in that scenario.
explain how it would be reasonable to make it so charge characters or grapplers could execute their moves at will. the balancing is literally built into the motion and without it they become insanely OP. what, you want cooldowns or some shit? rising thunder tried that and it was a massive failure in every regard.
This is what happened last time someone tried making a fighting game with simple inputs.
youtube.com
then go play it retard
So according to your retarded opinion Guilty Gear and UNIST's tutorials are bad because they're holding the player's hand?
Two of the most praised tutorials because they put you in scenarios that you could perfectly replicate in training mode?
Yea Forums doesn't know shit about learning fighting games
Didn't know if you were a different user from . Inputs mid combo aren't too much of an issue from my experience. At that point the whole combo is just muscle memory. Similarly to an opening in chess, you just sorta know what's going to happen, not much thought goes into that past neutral.
It's not the same anymore
korean lever master race
Wtf are you doing fighting against AI
Pick any character, learn one bnb and go online
people still play fighting games that are almost 30 years old
here's something really fucked
that doesn't seem to be the case with crosstag, which removed all complicated motions from those characters.
and granblue versus is coming out with cooldowns. rising thunder was shut down following some acquisition by riot games. it had nothing to do with the gameplay. it was in very early access so you never know how the end product would've looked.
yo that's actually really sick. You know if the SF Collection is any good for 3S training mode? I would pirate it and just play online on fightcade if its any good with training. My issue was never having a place to lab stuff out.
I know but what I meant was that I miss the game and the atmosphere around it, sure I can go and play it right now but the tournaments, the high level play, the hype, I kinda miss all of that. Sorry if I just worded my shit poorly
the atmosphere of everyone being huge dicks to every community besides SF4, just like tekken players are now
>that doesn't seem to be the case with crosstag, which removed all complicated motions from those characters.
yea, and then it baked half the moves into autocombos (making them stuck in an another entirely arbitrary input) or either outright changed properties about the moves or completely removed them
bbtag isn't even fucking close to the same game as bbcf
>granblue versus is coming out with cooldowns
only if you do the babymode one button inputs
somehow the training mode in 30th is even worse than OE, you can't even make save states
it works I guess, there's also a training mode script for an emulated version out there but I don't know the details for setting it up and I wouldn't want to practice on an emulator anyway
okay so you agree they balanced the moves by some method other than complex motions in crosstag and it works?
also the cooldowns in gbvs still exist for the baby inputs, they're just shorter.
play tekken, its more intuitive than sf and its easy to get into but harder to master, which is the ideal state of every competitive games. IMO, that was the reason why 2D fighting games had been declining before SF4 arrived. IMO 2d fighter need to change instead of pandering to "muh executions" elitists mentality.
tekken is fucking shit
>it works?
debatable
it's incredibly frustrating for dedicated players of older blazblues or any of the other franchises involved to boot up tag and find half their characters' buttons just aren't available when they want them to be now, and the other half are completely changed or removed
fighting games are dead
its either anime shit or the most boring shit on earth tekken
id rather be dead than play either
if sf6 isnt high execution im ending it all
i am a different user. i mostly agree with you there, but there's definitely a lot of moves that are really complicated for no reason that i've seen in bbcf because they don't need to be balanced for neutral, if they're even usable in neutral at all, and they often seem to be exclusively meant to be used as combo-filler. that's why i said it has arbitrary inputs.
i'm not the one championing for retarded motions like blazblue i'm saying that shit like quarter circles and half circles, 360s, DPs, and charge motions are perfectly reasonable and really aren't asking a lot in addition to being a semi balancing factor and makes the characters feel different. I'm not even against "simple" modes for players to use because they'll never outclass what you can do with proper input anyways and it lets you play with your retarded friend. just don't build the game around it
do you also not feel satisfied when you do a nice rocket/strafe jump sequence into a frag in an fps, or when you hit a nice shot in a sport after practicing as a kid/similar things like music that require precise movement? genuine question just curious. you can enjoy fighting games without that, just stick to games with shorter combos like sf and sam sho and be aware that certain characters are designed with different levels of execution in mind because people enjoy practicing stuff. also if you keep playing you'll probably be able to do something like op pic in a few minutes max easily.
okay but that's irrelevant to balancing. you admitted the moves can be balanced with less complex inputs and that's my whole point.
>if sf6 isnt high execution im ending it all
boohoohoo cry me a river, fag, literally every community is the same, and SFV fags are definitely keeping up with the SF tradition of being pretentious cunts, nothing has changed.
This copypasta is fucking ancient
You're all replying to dinosaur bones
i'm fine with those motions you listed as well.
you're the one crying about your shit game being dead. every "SF4 revival" has failed because nobody wants to play it anymore except for niggas that got washed in SFV or other games
nice avatar usage!
>you're the one crying about your shit game being dead
i'm not the guy you were replying to, just stating some facts
>literally every community is the same
what a strange and obviously untrue thing to say
I'm diamond and never do any difficult combo.
>SF
>pretentious cunts
>as opposed to every HARDCORE fightan' game community that fizzles out in a month
TOP KEK
SF is the most normie fucking fightan' franchise of all time.
t. tekken shitter, nobody cares about your ugly clunky game
imagine being a jab fighter 4 fag and calling any other game "ugly and clunky"
>If it's 2D and not SF, it's anime!
okay so then your first post was just bait. there's plenty of popular fighters that don't require crazy anime inputs.
cope
V-trigger > focus shenanigans
Also V newcomers are much better than IV although the rest of IV roster is superior.
Oh I get it, you're not even from this board
not hard to imagine, tekken has the worst feel out of any fighting game ever not to mention it still has ps1 graphics
honestly cant see why anyone would play that piece of shit
nigger i told someone else that i'm not that first poster. i was saying that it wasn't bait because there are people with that opinion and it's perfectly reasonable to have said opinion. i'm just not the guy with that opinion.
seethe
Imagine being wrong about anything you say.
I would be embarrassed honestly, even posting anonymously.
You would never post this dumb shit under a name.
Why is Yea Forums so fucking shit at fighting games? Go ruin another genre with your crybaby defeatist attitude.
getting a combo 1 time and implementing it in a match are completely different things. When i do hard trials in a game i always feel great after doing them even if the combos are over complicated and not useful
but it's not a reasonable opinion. you still have continued to ignore my question of how do you balance characters with those certain inputs if you simplify them? all you're doing is lowering the skill ceiling and making the game overall less interesting to play. and nerfing them wouldn't make them fun to play.
Please tell me what you people find so hard about SFV. I assure you as a diamond being matched against literal sponsored professionals in online matchmaking, the hardest thing in this game isn't a DP motion.
Name ONE(1) fighting game community that didn't have a large number of its most famous players shitting on SFV, MVCI, Smash or KoF XIV at some point.
Not a counterargument, all of those things can be true at the same time.
>Please tell me what you people find so hard about SFV
not getting tick thrown by cammy/rashid/lucia
there is nothing to imagine, you are a tekken player
continue deluding yourself into thinking tekken is a good game and not fundamentally flawed from the root
you are like a tranny, you are sick in the head
>Please tell me what you people find so hard about SFV
Making defense not feel miserable.
They're fucking losers. It's like this in every game in every genre.
Realization comes too late and it's usually at most a knee-jerk reaction to stop the now new trend.
100% agree except now that it's season 4 replace Cammy with Karin
Grinding Combos isn't going to make you good at the game dipshit
>even more idiotic dumb shit
good job proving his point
are you the same user? because you did not ask any question about balancing. i'm assuming you're the other user here:
i already discussed that crosstag balanced characters when it removed those more complicated inputs, but you seem to think it was "balanced wrong." there's no argument at this point because it's a matter of opinion on how something can be "balanced right" and no one's mind is going to be changed.
how is tekken flawed?
I think the disconnect here seems to be you're thinking mainly of anime fighting games, which I don't play. but I also am fine with letting anime fighter players enjoy their high execution games because there's plenty of other relevant fighters that don't have that execution requirement
>ex focus cancel
How horrifying
the person who mentioned that very first comment was referring to said fighting games that have dumbass motions and exaggerated in his statement about it, which is why i initially defended the opinion. i believe motions shouldn't be complicated just to be complicated and i also don't believe they really raise the skill ceiling at all unless you need to input an absurd number of complex inputs in games, with tekken as an example for that. i think if you want to use physical motions as a balancing factor, you should either go all in or not at all.
i also like to hear other people's opinions because maybe i'll change my mind. i hadn't heard one that a guy mentioned about theme-ing a character's inputs around their character. i don't see too much of that but i could say that's reasonable as well to a degree.
also i have no idea who i'm talking to at this point. have i been talking to a single guy this entire time?
I still don't nor will I ever understand frame data. Are you people honestly telling me that you can guess exactly what your enemy is going to do?
if any game needs a relaunch for brainlets its this fucking game.
I bought it on steam looking for a fun new team-fighter like Skullgirls or MvC and was instantly blown away at how artificially difficult each characters moveset felt.
People are predicable.
could you elaborate? frame data is useful for knowing if a move is unsafe or can be countered or something. no one memorizes an excel spreadsheet before their matches. you can sometimes guess what people are going to do, that's just the name of the game.
READ NIGGA, READ
That makes no sense to me though.
>Are you people honestly telling me that you can guess exactly what your enemy is going to do?
Yes, and not just that, I can literally make them do what I want them to do. Reading your opponent is baby shit, high level is played in the psychic realm and I'm literally not being hyperbolic.
fuck lucia and fuck e honda
sort of, I tapped out then back in somewhere along the line. to sum it up I don't think fighting games are required to have those inputs to be called fighting games. I just think that they don't need to adjust existing franchises to be more simple, don't make everyone else adjust to that just because some people want it
That's not unusual. Play something with lower execution requirements. I know SC6 is pretty forgiving. Samsho is probably fine too. And maybe bbtag?
Please post the match where the “best” SF V players spammed Sagats projectile. LMAO what a shit game.
how the heck is it fundamentally flawed? What are you talking about? Flawed because it's 3D?
Nigga it's just numbers, the relevance of the data depends on the game. Frame data is mostly a matter of whether something is punishable or not and how hard, and the occasional plus frame move which means "keep blocking".
i'm going to pull an example out of my ass. a move you use has -4 frame advantage. this means your opponent has 4 frames to do something before you do. you aren't going to remember this during the match, but it will be useful to know that if both of you were to try mashing out some button, you would most likely lose due to the fact they have an earlier start.
so what do you do with this information? you know if you hit the opponent with that, you should probably block their attack instead of trying to attack again. that's the type of thing people use frame data for.
Ed's stand HK is -4 on block. I'm Ryu, my st. LK is 4f startup. This means if I see Ed do st. HK, and I block it, then my st. LK will hit him before he can recover and block.
Which then means I can react to Ed's st. HK with a st. LK into hard uppercut every single time I block it.
I don't think KoFXIII is particularly harder than either of those games.
>hyperbolic
Thank you lowtiergod.
i'm a different user but i'm turned off by how hard it is to play. blockstun and hitstun is so short and basically nothing gatlings into each other. you have 1-2 hits before a command normal and that's it for your string. it's hard for me to be both quick and be able to react to confirms in such little time.
skullgirls is very much easier to do a combo and recognize confirms and shit in that regard.
what are you on about? isn't lowtiergod a salty youtube guy? what's he gotta do with a question about the relevance of frame data?
for the most part they mainly use QFC motions which are extremely easy to grasp and they allow buffering combos.
KoF and StreetFighter x Tekken have some frame specific link bullshit going on for combos that makes it impossibru to do. also mvc is for literal brainlets when it comes to comboing.>light medium heavy launcher light medium heavy launcher OTG +Super is like a universal BnB every character can do. very VERY beginner friendly but KoF it just feels autistic with inputs. I despise games like that. Felt the same way about BlazBlue (fuck Arakune) and Ivy's Summon Suffering/Calamity Symphony. what the actual fuck are the devs thinking when they make abilities like this? Why are they trying to give people blisters on their fingers (Alpha Patrokolas/Setsuka)? seriously fuck games that pull this shit. I dont see the appeal of purposefully making your game daunting and inaccessible to a wide majority of people
>mvc is for literal brainlets when it comes to comboing.>light medium heavy launcher light medium heavy launcher OTG +Super is like a universal BnB every character can do.
yeah and it does 0 damage. basic bnbs don't cut it in a game series with TODs
It was a joke dude, settle down. He's always telling people in his chat to "go green".
Sfv is has a shit tutorial. Go play UNIst
I know how you feel
It's mostly just a patience issue for me, but from what I've seen, practicing a single combo over and over will rarely win you the match regardless
good thing you chain one super into like 2 more if you have the meter for it.
the point is that its very accessible for CASUAL play thats a bridge between outright clueless mashing and ToD GENMU ZERO bullshit.
KoF the baseline for a BnB is just annoying tedious with the amount of inputs the game demands. on a side note why are you pretending like KoF doesnt have ToD's?
did you forget about HD and Exceeds suddenly old man?
>if any game needs a relaunch for brainlets its this fucking game.
Then play KoFXIV that does have shorter and easier combos.
I always find it weird how people permanently freak out about XIII when the combo length wasn't even the norm for the series. Then again I never understood why people freak out about full resources stuff that they pretty much never need at their level. There is this weird perception with fighters that you have to do the hardest thing first. I guess it is the same to how casuals now demand they can beat everything on the first couple of goes rather than be challenged by a game.
I wish sylvie would suck me into her asshole
You both need to explore the game further because basically nothing you said is true. There are some higher execution characters in XIII that still have easy BnBs that even top level players go for all the time. You should try out Kyo (slow ass multihit combos that can be confirmed with the reaction time of a cactus, combos off light lows included), Shen, and Iori.
Links are actually really rare in modern Kof and avoidable until mid-high level for the most part. Chains are super easy because the input buffer is like half a second long.
i didn't mean to sound mad, i just thought you were insulting me for trying to help. i didn't realize it was a friendly joke. my bad.
The reality is those challenges won't teach you anything except what things Ryu can do
It's only knowledge not understanding
The theory behind fighting games understanding how they actually work is what will help you win and can actually be applied to any game in the genre
The tricky thing is literally no competitive games actually give you this info nor do competitive games that aren't video games for that matter because it's a little too complex
You have to learn a different way you could try just playing against as many people as possible and studying how they win and how you lose but I think it takes a special type of person to learn anything this way
The way you actually probably want to learn is from people who already understand the game basically just use tutorials and better than that watch videos because it's good to see it in motion
It's quite difficult to succinctly explain the theory behind fighting games but basically in general terms it revolves around both players vying for advantages, limiting what the other player can do, spacing, knowing what to do when maximizing your movement and attacks, learning to predict your opponents movements and patterns
It's not until you understand ALL of this that you begin to even worry about matchups or optimizing combos even framedata will actually be more relevant to you before these things
Tekken is quite possibly the single hardest fighter of this generation to get into.
i tried leona and maxima and it was the case for both of them that they had really short strings and very little leeway with the hit/blockstun. i could play some other characters i guess but i'm not going to be getting competitive in the game, i just wanted to play the characters i liked for fun.
You are a fucking retard mate. How was doing a challenge going to make you magically good at gightimg games?
DEH
DEH
DEH
DOORYAH
would take less time for chun li to crush my head in-between her thighs
forgot pic
>Flawed because it's not shit farter
Speaking of delusional
Use your command normals. Leona does have an easily confirmable combo off multiple lows (cr.lkx2, st.lk, forward.lk->qcb.lp). I don't know about Maxima, I think you may be right that he's hard to hit confirm with, it's been too long since I last saw him, I honestly forgot he was in the game. Maxima is supposed to discourage you from attacking with his armored normals so he can run in and grab you, though, that's how his kit works.
Either way, my point stands, you need to explore the game more. Or don't, but know that you're judging a fairly deep game on a surface level.
I don't think it's fundamentally flawed from the root. If they just made the movement not feel like garbage that would improve things a lot.
Alright Plague, go sleep.
So do people actually enjoy playing fighting games? Or do they enjoy the feeling of getting better at something difficult?
I ask this because people I know who play fighting games always get mad as fuck at the game and never seem to be enjoying themselves.
They only seem to express joy when they finally pull off an intense combo during a match or reach a certain rank that they've been grinding for.
It seems to me that people treat fighting games like a proving grounds of skill, rather than a medium for entertainment.
Is this the truth? And if so, do you believe that this ultra-competitive mindset could be applied to something more "valuable", like a physical sport? Or a career goal? Or a social goal?
Not to sound too judgemental, but it really seems to me that fighting games really attract mostly IRL "losers" who don't have much going for them, and feel the need to validate themselves somehow, so they choose to feel a sense of pride in being superior to somebody in a video game, rather than a "real" medium.
I am not claiming to be a chad, nor am I claiming to not be a loser. All I will say is that, the "Chads" I know IRL only ever play casual games, and hardly ever get mad. Meanwhile, the "dorks" I know IRL almost always take gaming way too fucking seriously, and almost never have a good time.
Are my observations reasonable? Or am I a projecting dork who feels the need to put-down those who are better than me at /vidya/?
what you're experiencing is just what it's like to have a competitive personality which is naturally the type of person who would be drawn to competitive games
I enjoy playing them as games, but there's often unfun matchups to play and gay shit to deal with like every other genre.
Not that I'm a particularly good player.
I think your observations are highly anecdotal and judgmental, so yes,I think I'm going to accuse you of projecting.
fighting games are for autistic dorks and insecure pathetic losers who want to feel badass for kicking ass VIRTUALLY
example of a loser: LTG
example of an autist: M2K
nobody seriously plays fighting games for fun.
Literally NOBODY.
It's always people who fall under the above categories.
All the non-autistic non-losers are busy doing real life shit or playing actual fun games, they're not trying to validate themselves by hitting green ranks in tekken, simply because "its the hardest game and proves that you're the most skilled"
fighting games are cool but fuck the anti-fun playerbase
git gud or git the fuck out, no fun, only progress
buncha fuckin Krauts they are
They're more satisfying than any other genre. It's fun improving, but it's also great when you're on a similar level to someone and reading each other's minds trying to predict what to do next. Finally mastering a tough combo you've practiced feels great too. A proving grounds of skill is entertaining to a lot of people. You could argue that the time could be better spent, but the same could be said of Chess or any competitive game.
The one thing that frustrates me though despite loving fighting games is how much memorization and outside research they require if you want to get really good. Just learning all the different match-ups take a long time, especially when they're always adding new characters. Hard to keep up with it when I'm busy with work and other pursuits. Other genres are easier to get to a decent level just by playing them.
Stuck in green rank huh?
Would bbtag be ok to learn fundamentals? I just picked up the deluxe edition for 35$ (thanks g2a) because akihiko looks super fun to play.
twitch.tv
come watch 3s with me
It's not too difficult execution-wise, but it's not too "traditional." It's a tag fighter with lots of grimy setups. But really the most important thing is to pick a game you'll have fun with.
Was thinking of picking up samsho because I'm tired of braindead dial-a-combo games like fighterz, is the online good?
>is the online good?
>made in japan
no, but it could always be worse
>more moves good!
>Players will still use the same 4 canned dial-a-combo "bread and butters" because they do the most damage
kek.
Mission modes in fighting games are shit. Mostly because they have you continiously repeat what you already did to where you dropped for hours until you "do the combo" correctly.
Then you find out online that the combo is completely impractical in any match, thereby the hours you wasted doing it were for nothing.
Mission mode should just be dropped from the genre entirely. Waste of development time.
this, part of the fighting game enjoyment is grinding in training mode, i can literally spend hours in training mode for ultra street fighter 4, i used to spend hours in 3rd strike arcade mode and training mode too, but most of the shit i can do easily in that game, except things that are almost impossible now to do on keyboard like kara throws, i have gotten as far that i can consistently do dash demon and kara demon with gouki
just play calibur or samsho nigga, they're both better fighters than sf5 anyway
anyone up for some fightcade niggas?
>Or am I a projecting dork who feels the need to put-down those who are better than me at /vidya/?
100%. You are also extremely passive aggressive.
It is amazing that fighting games consistently expose people like this, and it is why I think dumbing down is pointless. No matter how easy they make the genre it will always get these long winded scrub quotes. You simply can't hold that L and need to devalue someone being better at something than you.
Most of those hardest challenge combos are not even important for competitive play.
Most good players wont let you land those big combos more than once a match if at all.
To get good at fighting games first master the fundamentals.
Moving correctly blocking correctly reacting to stuff and punishing unsafe on block stuff.
And garbing when the enemy least expects it.
As far as combos go as long as you learn the fundamentals even the most basic 2 hit link hit confirm in to a special (and maybe super if you have it) or just a normal in to a special for a punish will work. This is more than enough to win any match if you "Out-fundamental" your opponent.
I have a natural talent for FG's and even though I dabbled in them for the first time somewhere at the end of 2016 im now on the level where I can pick any fighter and automatically know what Im doing/ reasonably get good at them quickly while dominating in my main games to the point where I can compete with big name players if I get matched up with them. Funnily enough the competitive aspect itself wasn't originally at all what pulled me in since I dont like competitive games and whenever that competitive drive to "be the best" would pop up if anything I wanted to snuff it out and drop FG's completely so I could put that effort into my art or other more relevant timesinks. FG's have very heightened emotional highs and lows for me probably particularly because of my mental illness so I get either completely crushed by losing or an extreme elation for seeing someone else fail and get humiliated (winning itself doesnt really satisfy me, its more like the necessary base state for me to keep playing)
Theyre technical and expressive, I simply like the feel of using a character in a FG. Literally nobody gets better at them if they dont like playing them in the first place. Even the people who hate the game they are playing currently are addicted to the feeling of playing a FG even if their current game itself is constantly annoying them
Try playing the game faggot
Most fighting games already got ruined by you shitters. You fucking babies have have ruined arc system and will probably ruin the new Guilty Gear because you're all babytag tier brainlet that just want to mash one button for combos.
combos don't mean shit if you don't know how to block. plus all those dev-made combos are sub-optimal and mostly there to showcase combo theory which you then apply on the fly like "I landed move X on opponent who is not in state Y, what other move can i do now?" on and on until you get a knockdown or stun or whatever
Exactly.
True fighting games fans dont like fighters because MUH COMPETITIVE 1V1.
Its simply how the games play the way you feel like you are in complete control of a character.
Same reason why fighter fans also like stylish action games like NG Bayo DMC etc.
the reality is you'll probably never actually use that in a match anyway
just learn bread and butter and play online and learn more as you go, decent safe bnb to start with ryu if i remember correctly is st.mp, cr.mk, hard fireball, like basically anything it also works from jumping in, if you need range just start from the cr.mk and cancel into fireball.
>Theyre technical and expressive, I simply like the feel of using a character in a FG
This, in a sense fighters are a mechanically pure genre. You play them cause you enjoy how it works, if you were that kid who would take a toy apart to see how it works it is that same itch. You learn, apply, are presented with a new situation and then figure a way to use the mechanics to solve it. This is why I don't think limiting games makes it easier for newer players, cause the options to deal with things are limited. Mechanically sound games that do the basics well are what helps new players.
Which makes two reactions to them very funny for me. One if the call for more single player, more focus on levels, unique enemies etc. Basically people saying they don't want to focus on mechanics, in a genre that is all about the mechanic. Just buy an action game, it is clearly what you actually want. Second is when people get angry about criticism of combat in games and say stuff like "you guys just want it to be like a competitive fighter!" Like yeah, fighters demonstrate the basis of how combat works in games.
Fighting games don't worth time. They're pretty low on fun/time ratio.
>don't worth time
>more "valuable", like a physical sport?
lmao
Yep, I did a grammar mistake. But ultimately I'm right.
I imagine he's implying that practicing a physical sport would have health benefits on top of the experience of learning a game.
>risk of breaking your legs is a health benefit
lmao
Combo trials won't make you good
Those combos are usually not optimal
Playing matches, looking up guides on how to play your character is far more important
It's better to learn how to play before learning combos, you learn to walk before you learn how to ride a bicycle
>go back to SFV after months of not playing it or any other fighting game (save for Smash)
>surprise myself because I still have all my combos down
>proceed to completely forget all my other fundamentals so I lose all my matches anyway
Still too afraid to go back to Ranked.
I'm in the same boat, except it's more like a year or two of not playing seriously. Things are starting to come back a little, but I've forgotten a ton. The biggest problem I'm having is I don't know how to fight all the new characters, so it's like learning a new game entirely.
The problem is the game SFV is a very bad fighting game you will never have enjoyment while playing it, trust me
For me, I haven't even played in maybe a week or so. I've only been going back to it occasionally since I've been playing single-player vidya a lot as of late.
>The biggest problem I'm having is I don't know how to fight all the new characters, so it's like learning a new game entirely.
No fucking kiddin'. Like take Lucia for one. She absolutely fucking bodies me because I have no idea how to deal with her bullshit. Honda and Poison are really bad for me too. I should just go ahead and buy Lucia already, since she seems very good and very fun to play.
No one gits gud at fightan gaymes by playing the CPU. You wasted your time. You go into training mode, learn the inputs, then go online.
You are never going to use that combo anyways, when you punish you will probably just use some easier combo you can execute flawlessly.
You neutral game is more important, btw. You can only train that properly against human opponents.
Combo challenges are usually made for the sake of the challenge and they are often not optimal, specially towards the harder side. The important skills are the analytical and strategical skills, like figuring out your preferred ranges, your preferred moves for each range, ways to break defence, etc.
>So do people actually enjoy playing fighting games?
I for sure do. The kind of complicated problem solving it offers and the liberty when doing so is super exciting.
>Or do they enjoy the feeling of getting better at something difficult?
That also exists, yeah.
>I ask this because people I know who play fighting games always get mad as fuck at the game and never seem to be enjoying themselves.
It comes to a point in which your skill level gets high enough that a certain form of pride arises. At that point you are supposed to be good, and this expectation creates anger when not fulfilled.
> do you believe that this ultra-competitive mindset could be applied to something more "valuable", like a physical sport? Or a career goal? Or a social goal?
Kind of. I've actually been at that point until I started to care more about a personal project of mine. Still, can't help but laugh at how you consider physical sports more valuable.
>Not to sound too judgemental, but it really seems to me that fighting games really attract mostly IRL "losers" who don't have much going for them, and feel the need to validate themselves somehow, so they choose to feel a sense of pride in being superior to somebody in a video game, rather than a "real" medium.
Not really. This pride is only a byproduct but not the cause, IMO. And again, it's silly that you put a "real" medium as hierarchically superior. Games are games, regardless of whether they are virtual or not. Sports are in fact games.
>Are my observations reasonable?
To an extent. But it seems to me that they are guided by misinterpretation.
Now THIS is projecting.
Don't ever give up.
Will you be able to finish Kokoro's combo challenge in 1 hour?
youtu.be
>almost impossible now to do on keyboard like kara throws
Kara throws are not remotely hard. Now if you told me you were having difficulty performing kara shoryus, kara fukiage or kara palms (not nearly as bad as the other two), I would have believed you. But kara throws? All you have done is proven to me that you're both a liar and a faggot who's trying to throw out some terms to make himself look like he knows what he's talking about.
You can kara demon but not kara throw? Yeah I don't believe that.
Most fighting games now have good tutorials
I don't play SFV but I fap to Laura every day.
wtf i love latinas now!
This is pretty much everything wanted.
It also has the widest pool of casuals, so finding shitters at your level online is the easiest compared to every other game.
combos are the last thing you should learn when learning a new fighting game, and trial combos aren't necessarily optimal nor practical. Go into a match with Ryu and focus on anti-airing with crouching fierce or medium punch dp. Learn a simple combo like Ryu's target combo or crouching medium kick into fireball and rely on that for poking and damage. Work on learning which normals work best in which situations and at which ranges. BLOCK. That kind of shit is much more important than learning combo trials.
>Waaah big input hurt smile brain
When are You niggas gonna admit to just being bad lmao. Samsho just came out and has some of the most easy inputs that even a child could do but Yea Forums will still find something to complain about because that's easier than trying to improve.
Is it modded?
You just needed to microwalk, user. Stop being such a shitter.
My favorite part is when you couldn't go two sentences without some defensive ad-hominem
This is why samsho is the best fighting game series
>Am I just not cut out for fighting games? Should I give up? This is miserable
Yeah
You can avoid this problem by basically playing any other modern fighting game right now.
Nope. Sfv is just that based.
I've been playing fighting games since 2012. I still have trouble making a DP motion when I see the opponent jump at me.
I'm definitely better than in 2012, where I couldn't react to hold back to block standing. Considering I don't like competing, this is just fine.
A few days ago, I was playing Samurai Shodown and got destroyed by somebody DPing me every time I jumped at him. He was a really good player. I couldn't DP a single of his jump ins but I blocked most of them. He didn't rematch, so I found another opponent. This guy starts jumping like a maniac.
> I DPed his dumb ass jump every single time
Things take time and dedication. Or sometimes you have to play against somebody more on your level
Dont play garbage like sf5 then retard.
this thread made me reinstall and try out KoF and I couldnt even get past the exceed cancel mechanic before I dropped it.
having ONE FRAME to enter a entire next input is so bad.
Command inputs are easy. Stringing everything together is hard, especially for people who didn't start young.
Capcom really made the trials too hard in V. It was supposed to be made easier but I think they got confused and went the other direction. I can't do Cody's at all and forget about charge characters or even ones like Ed where you have to hold a single button to charge for half the combo before release, I'm not a fucking octopus with infinite fingers.
Doing each individual move is piss easy. Getting a QCF out 5 moves into a combo where you have to do 2 EX moves right after is a totally different story. No one is saying doing a single hadoken is hard.