What games find the perfect balance between "hard" and "good"?

>F-Zero more fun than Dorf Fort

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Oh good, this image has gotten even worse than before.

>F-Zero GX harder than Pooh Bear Baseball
What the actual fuck

>cuphead
>dark souls

If measuring from first turning on the game, it would probably take longer to beat Chapter 7 Very Hard than Christopher Robin

There's a lot more to learn and get good at there

>any of these games too hard
>Bloodborne harder than Sekiro and Touhou
>all of these great games skewed towards "not fun"
pathetic

What about them? They are easy execution based challenges with very clear attack telegraphing and plenty of ways to dodge

>God Hand easier than DMC3
>Ghouls'n Ghosts & Alien Soldier being to the left of the Fun barrier
>Shinobi & Nioh being Not Fun

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"Difficulty" & "Fun" are pretty shit variables to put together. Where's that grid that graphs game difficulty using "Mechanical/Strategic Challenge" and "Punishment for Failure"? A game like Super Meat Boy is quite high in the former but very lax in the latter while Dark Souls is comparatively lower in difficulty but much more punishing when you die, and games with Lives systems can afford to not be the hardest thing in the world when Game Overs are a threat for repeated failure.

>Underrail, Stalker, Dwarf Fortress not fun
I took your bait. But like you creating this image, I did it while knowing it was a meaningless and foolish gesture.

This better be bait

An honest take on this kind of graph would end up with something like a bell curve, since games that are too easy are boring and thus not fun and games that are too hard become too frustrating. The only way it can be anything else is if "fun" is being used as a completely abstract concept detached from your experience of playing a game. If a game that's too hard is fun then you probably only played it a little bit non seriously, and are using some vague "objective" Fun Points to determine its placement rather than your own perspective. Similar thing for too easy, though with easy games you can create self imposed challenges more often than not.

>band wagoning the "dorf fort is hard" meme
I can tell you didnt play

Cuphead is not that hard.

my cock

It's pretty fucking easy if you're not retarded.

Damn, that's a good one.
I'll save it and try to bait some fags later.

You're mistaking difficulty with tedium. Dwarf fortress is not difficult, there is a learning curve that is almost entirely due to a lack of knowledge, not mechanical complexity. You're not executing things improperly you just don't know how to solve problems and they don't do a good job conveying the solution. But those solutions don't really change once you've learned them, so as time goes on the game falls into a routine.

>bloodborne being that high