If Sans knows about the world reseting and save files why the fuck doesn’t he just kill Frisk at the start of the game?

If Sans knows about the world reseting and save files why the fuck doesn’t he just kill Frisk at the start of the game?

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MC would just reload the save duh

He promised to toriel

muh promise

So the better alternative is just go allow the player to finish a genocide run and then only face the player at their strongest?
There is no good reason why he doesn’t kill the player before that happens.

He's lazy.
Also you might not have been a total douchebag.

Muh promise aside, he can't know "what" Frisk he's encountering.
As far as he knows, the particular Frisk he's encountering might as well be a player who just wants to see a Pacifist or Neutral Ending, without ever trying the Genocide one.

It wouldn't be in line with his moral to kill every Frisk just because he might be a bad one.

it would be hell knowing there is nothing you can do if someone just restes. you couldn't even kill yourself

Because he's not a bad guy. He's only willing to kill you if there's absolutely nothing else to be done. Because you remind him of his friend, Kris.

So he can just kill Frisk at the first sign of it being a genocide run.
Why have him have this 4’th wall breaking powers if he doesn’t actually use them like a being with such powers would. It’s literally pointless to have Sans have that knowledge and powers otherwise.

Almost like theres flaws or something in the writing, I like the game but its far from perfect

Because you can bail on a genocide run at any point right up until the last encounter before Sans and, technically, even after you beat Sans. That's the point. Sans and the game are giving you every chance to not be a genocidal maniac and you have to reject it every step of the way so that when you meet Chara and have the consequences of your actions in front of you, it's like "well, this is what you wanted, right?"

It seems to me like Toby tried too hard to have 4’th wall breaking be a central point of the bigger characters powers. Like Gaster, Flowey and Sans that he didn’t account for the fact that those character should actually do more with the power they had.
Like Flowey obviously knew Toriel was gonna protect Frisk at the start and yet still tried to kill Frisk for no reason, Toby could have some really mindfucky things with a more groundhog day type story for the npc’s.

It's specifically because of the promise and for no other reason. Otherwise, once he made sure that you were a time traveller, he would have killed you.

benefit of the doubt attempting friendship and it's a CHIM thing

I mean he only explains it if you would just play the game

>pillow shading

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he actually says it in his dialogue.
>I thought giving the "annomaly" a good time would make them stop. Laughs, making friends...
He talks about Pacifist route. And for many... pacifist route IS the final stop.

sans has no 4th wall breaking powers, only flowey/asriel and chara

he cannot kill them
there were huge info dumps about this, you retarded?

How is genocide morally wrong if you can just start up a new game whenever you want.

When people ITT are saying "kill" they likely mean: "megalovania enough times so the human gives up".

he cant do any damage to you before youve killed enough
karmic retribution

People still suffer even if you can make them forget about it later.

Reminder that in the genocide run, Kris and Ralsei are gonna team up and kill Suzy

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Can't you NOT start a completely new game afterwards if you do genocide? I never did it myself but I heard something permanently changes. You have to reinstall the game or something

its cuz he wants to get in that goat mama's panties

>So he can just kill Frisk at the first sign of it being a genocide run.
And the player will reset. Why did this thread go on?

chara changes the neutral and pacifist endings very very slightly
like marking a photo iirc

He doesn't remember everything from every timeline, he just knows some hanky shit is going on with it. Also Toriel asked him to watch over him. Sans says at the dinner table "otherwise you would have been dead where you stand"

>wow so meta Undertale is am I rite, gaymers?
Zoomers are now edgy post-ironic nutcases that want to fuck skeletons thanks to you manchildren.

youtu.be/dxUAHdUjn0s?t=28

The player can just reload and try again. That's the whole deal with determination. Sans doesn't get to choose when you give up, so he just hangs back and hopes you get bored. Imagine doing something that you know can be erased, and you have no idea how many times you've done it and how many more times you'll have to. Wouldn't that make it pointless for you? He says exactly as much when you fight him, that he's only stopping you because there's literally nothing left if he doesn't try.

It's funny because, due to the linerity of Undertale's world and the half-baked nature of reseting, Sans just killing Frisk upon exiting the ruins every time would just result in an infinite death loop since there's no way for Frisk to physically avoid it.

That was the whole point of Flowey going insane. Monsters are doomed to repeat their actions.

You can never get a good ending again

Becuase Frisk can come back an infinite number of times. So mathematically, there's gonna be a time where Sans is gonna get beat. That's why he doesn't care about anything since the story always resets and its all ultimately meaningless.

Thing is there's the promise, determination, and the fact that Sans doesn't know what the "anomaly" will do.

He wasnt sure at first, and him being a nice guy didnt wanted to kill the kid without warning

This

Sans is the weakest character in the game. Eventually Frisk is going to get a hit in and auto kill him.

He doesn’t remember exactly everything. Just bits and pieces. The only reason he knows he killed you before is because of how angry you look.

He doesn't actually perceive the resets (he is able to do the hallway reset stuff because he perceived Frisk's reactions), all Sans knows is SOMETHING is fucking with the time stream, not that Frisk is the one doing it. He only figures that out very late in Genocide, and has no method of conveying that information backwards.

>infinite death loop
In theory this would cause frisk to give up, and let themselves die.

>not being able to kill sans while lvl 5
Surely the MC would have killed him eventually

i'd prefer ralsei turn evil

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the whole premise is he's all but given up in the face of resets because it doesn't matter, everything he moves towards will be rewound in a moment's time and he'll barely have any recollection of it.

>He only figures that out very late in Genocide
He always suspects frisk, it's even implied he blames the player for flowey's actions since he has no way of knowing there are two anomalies at different points in time. The whole "you'd be dead where you stand" scene seems to be where he's confirmed his suspicions.

So...
Was he serious with the whole dead where you stand thing or was he jsut fucking with you?

>Realize that now when the full game gets released in a few years and it turns out Ralsei or Susie is evil there's going to be a massive shitfit since people have grown attached to these characters over the years and could never realistically imagine them being able based on the short sample the demo provides.

That's something a loooot of people don't pick up on. I'm glad someone else did.
Sans is aware of timelines starting and stopping, and up until the player's arrival this was all Flowey's doing. Depending on how many routes the player does, this does indeed become the player's doing. But during the scene, Sans' conclusion is that it was Frisk/the player's doing up until this point. In total, it reads as:
>If Toriel didn't make me promise not to kill humans, you'd be dead where you stand because I know what you've done.
Even though the player may or may not have done anything.

Ralsei is gonna turn out to be a Christmas tree in the closet you enter to get the chalk. Mark my words.

A little bit of both. I think he was trying to get a reaction out of Frisk, his expressions change depending on who is in "control" in each timeline.

There's a decent fangame about this.
youtu.be/NBfwjdvXXAM?t=36

>genocide run
Won't be a thing. The game tells you multiple times that your choices don't matter.

This, why do so many people miss this? Sans is just hyper vigilant toward anything weird because he knows that timeline isn't normal, he isn't aware of when an actual loop happens.

Doesn't mean it isn't a possibility. If the game ends up forcing you to kill everyone by the end, the statement still stands true.

>why do so many people miss this?
These people have poor comprehension skills and/or haven't actually played thee game. They're getting all the info filtered through the understanding of mentally stunted let's players.

Susie will get mellow.
Ralsei will turn out to really be a monstrous darkner abomination.
Somewhere in lategame you will have a choice of a)sealing the Dark World along with him and whatever evil entity is controlling Kris never to see Ralsei again; or b)letting the evil thing destroy both sides.
You will invoke power of friendship and hopes and dreams and save everyone.

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What do you guys think will happen to Susie? Based on what the clamgirl said, she is responsible for the events of Undertale. Or rather, her counterpart Suzy is.

>Ralsei will turn out to really be a monstrous darkner abomination.
i hope this isn't true, i just want a good-natured character to stay good natured instead of this cynical bait-and-switch bullshit all the time
please toby

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Even that's giving some people on this board too much credit. Remember Celeste being about abortion?

>Susie wills the better game into existence
wtf based

>Remember Celeste being about abortion?
No, I haven't played or looked into it. Is it an interesting story?

what?

Deltarune is almost guaranteed to have a bad end, Undertale pretty much implies sans and Papyrus are split off from a "Gaster" entity that destroyed itself in another timeline. I'm thinking by the end of the game turning off enough of the dark fountains will result in the darkner world becoming the "real" world.

No, I meant he will just look sinister and like the other darkners do.

>Undertale pretty much implies sans and Papyrus are split off from a "Gaster" entity
Nothing implies this, and sans, papyrus, and gaster already exist in deltarune.

That's the vibe I'm getting too. Whole of chapter 1's epilogue (post-dark world) was entirely about loss of innocence.

I always figured Sans and Papy were assistants.

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If Toby has half a brain about storytelling, he won't elaborate on Gaster's origins.
>ruining the mystery

Sans and Papyrus incorporate Gaster's motif into their theme songs and sans utilizes his weapons. It could also be that they're his assistants but that doesn't sit right with me, I get the vibe clam girl and sans were the assistants.

Having relations to each other does not imply they once made up a single entity. That's a huge logical leap.

It's likely that those are th Sans and Papyrus that we know from Undertale, and they figured out how to time travel. The end of the game Sans even says "they just moved there" recently and he also hinted at knowing about the save/reset feature

Maybe, but it seems reasonable since Gaster is apparently fragmented and his "pieces" appear as characters that show up in Deltarune.

Ehh think about it. If one were only to do a neutral/pacifist run, then Sans would be a mystery.
>What was the idle threat in the restaurant?
>How come he's the one in the hallway at the end?
>Why is his soul depressed during the Asriel fight?
Tons of little things making him a mysterious guy, and genocide completely and satisfactorily explains why he is the way he is, and then some. I have faith Toby will do right by Gaster.
Don't forget it's Grillby's restaurant, too.

Because of Toriel's promise, he wants to befriend the human. Or at least he believes that's the best option for survival.
That's why he'll initiate dates with you instead of you initiating a date with him, unlike all the other characters.

>Sans even says "they just moved there"
I like to think that's entirely because of Gaster. He conducts a determination experiment that gets usurped by another entity and sends sans to the town to directly observe the subjects.

Sans promised Toriel he wouldn't kill any humans. He doesn't want to break his word unless he has no choice. In a pacifist run he tries to befriend you in the hopes you'll have a satisfying experience and stop playing the game so the characters can enjoy their happy ending on the surface. In a neutral run he's willing to give you the benefit of the doubt unless you kill his brother, but even then he knows it can and probably will be undone. Even on a genocide run, which completing fucks up all timelines permanently, he's willing to give you every chance possible to turn back, rewind and try for a better outcome, up until you're right outside the final room. Even then he still gives a you a final chance to stop before he finally breaks his word and unleashes hell on you. But even after breaking his promise he knows that killing you just means you reload and try again, so his goal isn't even killing Frisk, it's giving you, the player, such a difficult and frustrating fight that you ragequit and do literally anything else.

What did Toby mean by this?

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He wants Frisk to choose a good ending you retard. If he uses his full power against Frisk at the start of the game, the player will either stop playing out of frustration, leaving the monsters trapped underground forever, or fuel the player's rage so they genocide everything once they beat Sans.

He can't kill frisk, that's why he tries to befriend frisk

Nigga gave you the tl;dr

Sans doesn't exactly know about save files or that he's in a videogame, just that the human can alter his timeline. To him nothing the human (or anyone else) does matters because the human can just take it all back at will. It's not until he realizes at the very end of the genocide route that the human's actions are going to permanently end the world with no hope of changing it back that he actually realizes he has to intervene.

How did undertale get timetravelling right, when bioshock infinite failed?

because Bioshock Infinite was a shitty FPS that pretended to have deeper themes and ideas to disguise its godawful gameplay.

I don't get it, does Sans remember everything if you safe? Or does he remember only a fraction or are there multiple Sans across the timelines?

Doesn't remember anything, he observed the UT universe from another universe and came to investigate because the timeline was fucked, now he's stuck there knowing he's in a fucked timeline but can't do anything about it.

You can.
Rofling @ those cucks who let themselves get cucked by chara.

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He knows someone or something is messing with the timelines but doesn't have Flowey's reset-proof memory so he has to fill the blanks. He's observant enough to figure out what you've done (and how many times he kicked your ass) based on minute changes in Frisk's body language but he didn't seem to know about Flowey having the reset power and passing it onto you. he thought you were to blame from the start.

What the fuck was Toriel's problem?

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>but can't do anything about it.

Other than convince the anomaly, one-way or another, to fuck off and leave everyone alone.

Committing genocide again has Chara reset absolutely everything.

Makes no sense. All we know is Asgore hired Gaster (and assistants) after Asriel died and Toriel went into ruins.
The time cop theory is bullshit, and is easier explained by Gaster being from here and getting retconned while trying to circumvent the barrier.

>There is no good reason why he doesn’t kill the player before that happens.
The player will just reload.

>You tell Asgore he's killed you once before
>He nods sadly
What the fug :DDD?

Sans doesn't have conscious awareness of past timelines, he's just smart enough to notice that Frisk acts like they've met before.

He went through this six times already ;^)

Frisk is intrinsically and thematically tied to the pacifist route. "Frisk" doesn't exist until the end of pacifist when Asriel asks his name.

She's a mom that lost both her children in a single night and vents her depression, frustration and anger by blaming her husband because deep down she knows that she failed as a wife when she left her man when he needed her the most, failed as a leader when she secluded herself from her people and that her escape from the real problems of the their little underground world and her passivity resulted indirectly in death of six human children
Honestly, I don't blame her, even if she's objectively wrong and has done mistakes after mistakes. Tragedy like that fucks people up beyond their true self
All she needs is a little bump and a heads-up of realities and that she should make amends, seek redemption and face the ghosts of the past

deep down inside you know this to be true.
no good ending for goats ever

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Based Borisposter
;_;

i hope that happens because i want monstrous bfs

Yeah, nah, her ex husband serial murdered 6 children in Undertale and racked up their bills with his dumb flower shop in Deltarune. She should just fuck the skeleton.

(You)

t. sans

They use different models of time travel.
Bioshock used the many worlds interpretation, which made it a big mess that the writers couldn't deal with.
Undertale's is basically Groundhog Day time travel, which is less like time travel and more of a time loop.

>Yea Forums is too stupid to understand fucking undertale
just nuke this board, fireden wasn't enough

GOD I JUST WANT A SUSIE GF AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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I want muffet to sit on my face