What makes for a good platformer?

What makes for a good platformer?
Hardmode: no "like x but"

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Like X. Megaman X.

How would you design a difficult platforming game if you're the expert then, OP

I always like to form plats in my platformers.

Memorization is skill proper in this kind of games.

Just use the simple level design philosophy. Use a core mechanic throughout the level by at the beginning introducing the mechanic in a safe environment and expanding the mechanic as the level progresses and possibly mixing it with old mechanics that synergize well with the one in the level and top it off with one big test at the end of the level. Sounds easy but it requires some work and thought to execute well which is what the best platformers do well but where others fail.

Flow. Every Mario game has this. Classic Sonic with the exception of 1, but including Mania also has this once you learn the levels making them fun to replay. The Messenger also does this well. Levels and movement that allows the character and game to continuously flow well make for the best platforming experiences.

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A good platformer is pure, has no enemies, or if it does have enemies they are handled exclusively by platforming. It doesn't change up the mechanics too much. It should have great movement feel, such that you can learn the character as though it's an extension of your body - just like how you can close your eyes and touch your fingers perfectly together without looking, the movement should be so consistent and natural that you can feel where precisely a jump will send a character before making it or even thinking much about it. It also has no loading or regeneration screen, just sends you right back to the checkpoint immediately. Has a mix of longer and shorter levels, a steep difficulty curve which always has the pressure on, some side areas to go look at. Should have thematic level design so that it's not just a big bucket of random levels.
Good platformers also sometimes reuse screens, sending you through one path and then through another.
In terms of movement style, it's typically important for the game to strike a balance between floaty and heavy. Some games do one or the other really well, but usually they get it wrong and it's just obnoxious to use.

not OP, but i think the ideal platformer would be one that gives you a diverse movement toolkit and throws complex areas at you so that you can tackle problems in your own way. having a "right way" to complete a level seems kind of lazy because then it's all about rote memorization and not about creative thinking or quick decision making. not that mechanical execution isn't important in platformers, but requiring one specific input from the player and punishing them over and over until they get it right gets old quick if that's what the entire game relies on.

Mario Odyssey.

Lots of freedom, rewards exploration, forgiving without being total baby mode.

It just needed to have more difficult shit.

Mario games are garbage platformers though. Like the big macs of the genre.
And of course you mention fucking sonic, which is the whopper of the genre. Not only irredeemable shit, but the inferior kind of irredeemable shit.

I played The Messenger after seeing it at GDQ and it feels so good to play, it was really a delight compared to most modern day platformers being meat boys or IWTBTG knockoffs.

>just like how you can close your eyes and touch your fingers perfectly together without looking
am I supposed to be able to do this

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mega man or mega man x
near perfect but for some reason the move to 2.5D actually (barely) hinders gameplay

Imagine being so fat you look at videogames and see fast food

>Sanic

>Celeste
It bugs me that this game gets wanked so hard. I mean it's a good game, but people treat it like it's a revolution in video game design.

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Terrible examples of flow. If you want to know how to do flow correctly look at the speedruns of Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Sonic's level design suffers a lot from trying to make them "flow" while Donkey Kong does not, and Mario was never made for flow.

Don't see the problem with either. I can play Mario and Sonic games without stopping or being hindered by anything at all. The only exception being autoscroll levels in 2D Mario. Also I forgot but since you mentioned TF, Classic DKC is also good for flow as well.

I was thinking Super Meat Boy

Yes, you should be able to touch any two body parts with your eyes closed with some precision. At least I can do it easily. Is that strange?

Yeah, you're an idiot who has never touched a real platformer. Go pick up the fucking switch and leave us alone.

It's probably because I'm rich and from a noble family with a strong lineage while you're a dirt farmer or whatever the fuck poors do these days now that I think about it.

if you can't you're probably brain damaged, not kidding. kinesthetic awareness of your body is pretty baseline as far as sensory perception goes.

Exactly why I think Celeste isn't anything super special.

Braid

The blue image looks like sanic...

>strong lineage
Strange way of typing inbreeding, my friend

It's okay to hate on big mascots for "stooping" to the "lowest common denominator," or just because (haha corporate), but at least admit it.
They're not garbage or excellent, just good. They present the fundamentals perfectly fine, adds twists whenever needed, stuff like that.

fpbp

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>Assuming everything a person has or hasn't played because of examples you don't like

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This but unironically

Do real physics (inertia, gravity with acceleration etc..). it's literally how japanese platformers are superior to the american ones in the 90's
But crank up the gravity, the "real earth gravity" makes shit floaty as fuck. Jumps should never last more than a second.
Copying the megaman X shit is nice, but you should come up with your own movements as well.
Make the harder rooms "clocks" of sorts, that you have to crack with your mind the timming.
And finally, ALWAYS blame the player with the design. The player must feel the game is easy and everything that happened was his own fault, that "he did something stupid and failed", but the level is actually pretty hard.

Super Meat Boy

>Shits on somebodys idea of good platformers
>Doesnt say what makes a good platformer or provide examples
Opinion discarded

I think Mega Man X wall jumping triviliazes a lot of the platforming and boss designs present in those games. And people hate it when stages are designed around the mechanic like Burn Rooster's stage in X8.

>good platformer is pure, has no enemies
Wrong.
Literally every good platformer has enemies and bosses.

Good physics with movement that feels good to the player.
That's why well designed IWBTG fangames are the best platformers.

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>how japanese platformers are superior to the american ones in the 90's
Nah. SNES megaman games were superior to physics-driven american shlock like Flashback, and the only physics they feature is gravity and ice friction.

I liked those parts of x8
Those people are just shitters

>Merry-Oh
>Flow
No. Not even remotely. Maybe if you have every aspect of every level memorized, and even then not really. There's so much stopping.

>Jotaro’s dad.jpg

Flashback had next to no physics, It's pretty much all animations.
Now Megaman X have actual vector math on gravity, acceleration, jumps etc.. at a point Megaman X2/X3 have this chip to accelerate this shit and sprite setup.
The CX4 is literally a megaman accelerator with a line drawer tucked in to pretend the chip is there to do more than just solve the awful frame rate issues that appears when you push the megaman X engine even harder.

>Mario was never made for flow
You have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about.

IWBTG has shit physics, literally no momentum

>no momentum
This is a good thing though.

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MEGAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
FUCKING MEEGAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

Madeline's DLC comes out soon!
You're gonna play it, aren't you user? Don't tell me you couldn't even beat the C-sides...

Plataforms and good music.

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what about my first level? do I have what it takes?

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Dude VVVVVV was a good game with good music

Oy vey

Flashback is french though, and is unironically a movie game in the vain of Another World.

Absence of enemies is a good way to tell if a platformer is indie garbage not worth anybodies time.

like N++
no buts