Whiny, hypocritical milksop who looks like he went out from starbucks

God I love, grown Maccready. Poor fucking bastard could not catch a break.

Because fallout 3, like fallout 1, was trying to create a RPG (or open world experience) that was in a post apocalypse first and foremost, and a continuation of the series' world building second. Fallout 2 and NV were more about how the world from falout 1 was changing and repopulating.

because he's a fucking psychopath
seriously engage in combat with any legionary and he'll slaughter them with no mercy and probably laugh while doing it

I liked Fawks. Also the slave ghoul in the underworld museum.

Curie is hot, Deacon is funny, Nick is honestly one of if not the best fallout character, Piper is nice, even Cait is far more likable and tolerable than fucking Cass whose just a bitch.

I love MacCready!

Oh yeah they were good too. Honestly the main thing that held fallout 3 companions back was how you couldn't ask them about anything. FNV did that wonderfully where you could understand what each character thought about anything going in the wastes, and 4 went further by having companions comment on both what the player was doing and where they were, making you actually feel like you were with some other person

I'm glad no one's disagreeing with this

What the fuck are you faggots blithering about? 3 was poor at best with a railroaded story that was flimsy at best. Brotherhood being paraded around as the good guys when they've been no such thing before. Enclave being literally post apocalyptic natzis when they were the remnants of the government trying to establish and consolidate power again. 3 was heavily flawed. New Vegas came closer to being a true fallout game than 3 and all it's dlc ever would dream of.

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I fucking hated every single Boomer larper who came out after NV complaining about their lost "golden age"

Fallout fucking sucked gameplay-wise and was ony good for its setting. Fallout 2 had a lot of RP options but was just a boring ass story that came from nowhere.

Yeah if there's one thing NV did right, it was fleshing out the characters in moment to moment activities. Fo4 felt more refined which is always a good thing

>Brotherhood being paraded around as the good guys when they've been no such thing before.
The Outcasts are the oldschool assholes everyone knows and hates. They're not pretending the capital brotherhood chapter is how its always been. Hell, it let in a lot of new members from the Pitt and the native wastes.
>Enclave being literally post apocalyptic natzis when they were the remnants of the government trying to establish and consolidate power again
They were nazis in 2 also, you idiot.
>New Vegas came closer to being a true fallout game than 3 and all it's dlc ever would dream of.
New Vegas was a western masquerading as fallout.

In every fucking game the Brotherhood are in their arc is how they need to open up to the outside world to survive. The cannon ending of fallout 1 has them becoming a research hub and bringing tech back to the wasteland for fuck sake.

All fallout 3 did was have the Brotherhood of already made that choice before the players involvement. The game even mentions that this was controversial and not normal for them with the Outcasts being a thing. Why the fuck you keep bitching about this shit

Fallout 1 was a product of its time and the influence of a epoch of post-apocalypse.
We live in 2019, there is no post-apocalypse influence, mad max was 30 years ago.
NV is the only spiritual sucessor because has more rpg elements, soul and philosophy than the rest of other fallouts, like 3, 4 and 2(kung fu ninjas, ghosts, shamans and other shit).

Nevermind him. He's one of those larpers that pretend to have played the first game when that came out and are hating on the new ones like the hipster fucks they are.

Which one was nick? Was he the robot that killed the guy that sat in an empty room as a ghoul for hundreds of years and showed no signs of leaving his hole? The same Nick that berates you if you kill a criminal without due process? The same Nick that had plenty of time to get over some prewar bullshit and realize revenge wouldn't stop the nightmares or fix anything?

Never heard of him. Damn shame the only memorable aspect of Fallout 4's companions were how poorly they were written. At least in Fallout 3 Bethesda knew their limits and you were just a lone wanderer.

The Enclave in 3 are actually much more like the US gov't than Nazis than in 2. In 3 only the president wants to genocide the radiated, the Enclave only wants the same thing as the Brotherhood which was to start project purity.

That was actually one of 3's problems in its main story since then it makes no sense why your father would kill himself over the Enclave taking over the memorial, but still you're wrong

I'm not saying that 3 was better, only that it had a better atmosphere and sense of desolation than NV. Of course the plot is dull and the factions are depicted superficially.

I mean, not really? You can nitpick but you're not seeing the forest from the trees.

The Brotherhood in Fo3 were outcasts. Lionel was on his own and had no back up in regards to other Brotherhood settlements across. The outcasts in the game were the real Brotherhood who stayed true to the overall cause but were obviously casted out of the immediate settlement of said location.

which has only been brought by The Pit. The rest of the game is pure green with nothing but bugs.

Why are you acting like his side quest was the only thing too his character? Is your hate boner for Bethesda so strong that you can't accept them writing a few good characters?

>Fallout 4's companions are prefect honestly
*Except Strong

Yeah it's just rose tinted sunglasses. Most people don't know a different team wrote 2, which basically gimmicked 1 in every way.

LMAO so much samefagging in this thread

And NV was orange until dlc.

and preston
Honestly I don't think 3's faction were that superficial, they were just exosting factions that were each taken in a new direction.

The Brotherhood in 3 have already decided that to survive they need to open up to the wastes and are dealing with the fallout of that decision. They have an obvious motive for being in DC since they want to learn what's inside the Pentagon

The Enclave aren't the genocidal maniacs of Fallout 2, now they are just a ruthless organization bent on reclaiming their title of being the legitimate American gov't. The, of course, have a reason to want to start this in DC.

The supermutants have all rejected their few intellectuals instead of rallying behind them, and so are now in a death mission searching for more FEV that is nowhere to be found.

Aside from the super tanky hillbillies with axes capable of penetrating power armor, Point Lookout was probably my favourtie part of FO3

then it was wither gray, blue, or red

I mean F2 was developed in a year. Not much time for creation there.

I'm reading 13 posters with 38 posts. That's about 3 posts per person? Is that not normal? Or are you in denial of what's being said?

Contrarianism at its most baldfaced, that's all they're doing.

Wait, people unironically believe this? Jesus Christ what the FUCK happened to Yea Forums?

People have always believed this because it's true fag

Care to enlighten how it's wrong?

>Thing is popular I have to be different
It's always been this way, unfortunately.

>>Thing is popular I have to be different
Literally you. NV is popular on Yea Forums so you have to like 3.

Here's an unpopular opinion, I actually like how DC in fallout 3 is just a bunch of blocked off locations connected by metros and sewers.
It made DC feel like a giant city and that you were just traversing through a concrete jungle. In comparison Fallout NV New Vegas ruins felt tiny and boring like you were just walking through some boring town and not one of the largest cities in America.

>poster number doesn’t go up

What are you talking about? There are daily threads about how Fallout 3 sucks ass, its only people who played the game and know the group-think circlejerk is bullshit and that Fallout 3 is an actually great game

People got tired of sucking NV and Obsidian's dick all the time.

Why do you want humanity to stay as dead and bombed out as 200 years ago at this point?

2 and NV babbies SEETHING

I guess people can only post once in a thread now, thanks for telling me

I dislike 3 because it transplanted Fallout 1 elements superficially to the East Coast instead of being creative, not because Yea Forums told me anything.

Fallout was never good

He's a idealist who understands what he wants isn't possible but still keeps his retarded idealistic views anyway. It's why hes disappointed no matter what, he wants a independent Vegas but even then independent Vegas isn't what he hoped for and sucks.

>The fact that you can't go through DC made DC feel big

Because I can't see radiation being washed out or being purified from all the fresh water.

we're not saying it's better, we're just saying that Fallout started as a rpg about the apocalypse, and 2 took it in an other direction

>There are daily threads about how Fallout 3 sucks ass,
There are also daily threads bitching about NV, case and point this one.
>its only people who played the game and know the group-think circlejerk is bullshit and that Fallout 3 is an actually great game
I’ve played it and the DLC. It was boring with an absurd story, no memorable characters and only Pit even felt remotely true to Fallout.

>There are also daily threads bitching about NV, case and point this one.
lol no

Yea Forums became so contrarian that it now holds to most mainstream opinions possible in order to be counter-counterculture

Good argument faggot.

If Fallout 3 didn't have the Brotherhood, supermutants or the Enclave, all of you, and all of fallout 3's critics would shit talk the game for being to distant from the first 2. You would shit talk Bethesda for misusing a licence for a brand rather than actually make a Fallout game.

Fallout 3 needed to include tons of fallout 1 and 2 elements because Bethesda needed to make their games the next Fallout which meant moving the factions over to DC (Which they had perfect explanations for)

There are constant daily threads praising NV while shitting on 3 and 4. There are none about shitting on NV.

I don't see any arguments for NV or 2 actually being good. Read the thread. NV babies just ree as their argument.

NV barely has the Brotherhood and Super Mutants and basically nothing of the Enclave, and people outside of Yea Forums love it

Then you're an idiot, for several reasons. For one, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are both safe to live in less than a century post-bombing, and a nuclear meltdown is much dirtier than a bomb, yet the Chernobyl exclusion zone is also safe (in most places.) Hell, by safe that just means 'you won't get cancer from it,' it would've been entirely possible to live there earlier if you didn't mind getting cancer and dying at 50. As for the water, running water is one of the first things that'll lose radiation because all the radioactive particles will get washed downstream. Unless someone dumped nuclear waste directly into the source, that water will be clean far, far before a hundred years is up, let alone two. Nevermind that removing nuclear particles from water takes little more than a pile of dirt and a jug.
It's almost like humanity moving on is the entire point, I mean shit, that's even part of the idea with 1, seeing how people are starting to move on.

You have bait threads about NV being bad made by people who aren't fallout fans. They don't point to 3 as superior.

THIS ONE IS SHITTING ON IT RIGHT NOW YOU THICKHEADED DUMBFUCK OH MY GOD

>all of you
>Let me just tell you what you'd think and how you'd feel
Yeah no.

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There are no daily threads shitting on it, retard.

Of course, but NV was made after Fallout 3 succeeded in making itself the proper successor. When Obsidian made fallout 3 they didn't have to worry about the game not being Fallout. Bethesda did and so they had to go out of their way to make it Fallout

what happens when the entire fucking world is nuked?

Have you noticed the increase in Skyrim threads recently? Bethestoids took over. Give it a couple of years and this place will praise Fallout 4 and 76.

If you were a big fan of Fallout 1 and 2 and the next one was made by Bethesda (A company you have no trust of or relationship with) And they didn't include any elements of Fallout 1 and 2, the critics, old Fallout fans, and mindless Bethesda haters would be outraged on how they stole the licence.

Don't act like you wouldn't fall into this

Nothing different from what I said. All those places I mentioned didn't lose radioactivity because the particles went somewhere else, it was because of radioactive decay. Nuclear bombs are not exactly made to be dirty on purpose.

Bethesda didn't, they just chickened out
It's not like Fallout was a massive mainstream series at the time of Fallout 3, the PC games were popular and had a few spinoffs, that's it

>Let me just tell you what you'd think and how you'd feel AGAIN
Your entire argument is gonna be this, huh?

>says he used to be with a "fascist" group in reference to enclave when you ask about his past
Why isn't the Courier confused by his usage of the word "fascist" and why does Arcade expect him to know what it means? Is WW2 history common knowledge among wastelanders?

Good point. There's still a lot of radiation in the first game, second, and in New Vegas though. Hell, radiation turns people into fuckin Ghouls and gives people super powers. This is fictional radiation which means it can do whatever it wants. I'm a sucker for realism too but that's an unmistakable fact.

Probably a few neofacists among the wasteland tribes of the US

I ended up crucifying him on my first play through.

The first games, though not popular, were very well received, and if Bethesda's fallout 3 was completely separate from the first two they would be criticized for not making a true sequel, would could hurt Bethesda's sales and PR.

Besides that if Bethesda wanted to make their own story separate from 1 and 2 then they wouldn't of even needed to buy the licence, they wanted to tell a Fallout story not a story in fallout

Most of the mutations and weird shit in Fallout is from the FEV being spread all over the atmosphere when the bombs fell

only way to handle these fucking people

Why would an original take on the Capital Wasteland not be a Fallout story rather than "a story in Fallout"?

Fallout 1 > New Vegas > Fallout 2 > Fallout 4 >>>> Fallout 3

3 is pure garbage my nigger-retards.

>wouldn't of
It's "wouldn't have"

Why are you adding 2 next to the masterpiece that is 1? 2 was in the same situation as Bethesda (different devs taking over) only most people don't know that. Once you do you can see how they don't expand the world in any way like the first one did.

For more detail:

He's a classic CRPG companion where you can get contrasting ideas on the setting, tell him he's shit and argue. Kino voice acting. A solid 3/5 companion. Cass is best and she isn't posted a lot on Yea Forums because Yea Forums only likes low quality gay shit

>There's still a lot of radiation in the first game, second, and in New Vegas though
And the third. I'm not making the claim that Fallout treats it realistically, I'm bringing all this up in reply to someone saying they can't believe humanity would develop because they didn't think the radiation would clear out. But it has, for the most part, enough for there to be safe places humans can develop and rebuild civilization, even if wacky cartoon physics make it so it's still radioactive in spots.

fucking what?

fallout is not about "muh wasteland" its about human factions reforming societies after a total wipe out.
some factions prebale and trive (new california republic) and encounter bigger factions (house, cesar legion) and the strugle for power began anew (thus the theme war never changes)
what fucking FO3 did was rehash factions without using the theme core of human societies rebuilding themselves (as you see people living in still smoking houses)
remember that the war ended over 200 years ago, even fucking africans in real life have new factions from time to time fighting for power

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>fallout
>post-nuclear
oh look it's a zoomer faggot, of course you thought fo3 was good.

I really don't get people who say he's pushed on you, you can tell him he's a retard and sell him into slavery should your character want to do so
It's like people forget they're playing a role-playing game

>Cass is best
>I like disgusting, crass, cheating whores

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The fact you came up with all those characteristics of Arcade makes him the fact that he's one of the best character in the New Vegas

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This, "war never changes" is fucking repeated through the whole series.
We could blow each other back into the stone age, that wont stop humans from fighting for resources or ideals and repeat history all over again

>Human factions reforming and deforming and then reforming and deforming etc...

That should not be the main focus especially when we were sold a wasteland with heavy mystical intrigue.

The Lonesome Road is a key to understanding how they're just gonna restart it everytime. It's as pointless as how Star Wars 7 made of 1-6

You like repeating yourself don't you?

>That should not be the main focus
Too bad it is.

Lonesome Road is rightfully shat on for that very reason

>That should not be the main focus
Wow, what a shame, because that's literally the point of the fucking franchise. Or was, before Bethesda raped it with lol so kooky 50s music and epic spooky red skies.

>That should not be the main focus, especially when we were sold a wasteland with heavy mystical intrigue
>we were sold a wasteland with heavy mystical intrigue
fucking what? didnt you played the fucking games? fallout was not about the pipboy going through zimbabue, it was about the nature of power and how factions struggle for it you dense mother fucker

The REASONS for war changes. But war stays the same. If you want to have the same motivations for war then Obsidian has truly destroyed this franchise

Something tells me he actually liked Nick a lot before that quest and I agree with him on that note 100%, what a fucking garbage outcome for what was initially a cool character.

Nigga what the fuck are you talking about?

The bottom line is, FO was never about harsh post-apoc wastelands, hardcore survival mechanics, or crazy gunfights. It was literally always a post-post apocalyptic narrative and setting, focused more on how human beings rebuild, not how they tear each other down.

Fallout 3 literally just copy and pasted all the shit from 1 and put it in a context where it didn’t make any sense, what are you talking about?
>uh our plot is about water too, and, uh, something about a purifier
>oh and there’s supermutants too, for some reason (they’re marketable and we need another bad guy)
>and the Enclave is back too, for some reason (they’re marketable and we need a bad guy)
>and the BoS are back too, but they don’t actually follow the ethos of the original BoS, because we need a good guy
>oh and we copy pasted the encounter with the Master, only with a giant computer instead
Fallout 3 is guilty of what accuses 2 and NV of doing, it just recycled the same shit over and over

2 created the enclave and the NCR, which showed the rise of more complex settlements after the post apocalypse while NV felt like an actual sequel because it expanded on how these developed in a logical way
>The Enclave are around, but most are just retired geezers who reveal that they’re just regular people vs copy-pasted Enclave brought back for no reason
>The NCR is suffering from similar problems that a developed state is suffering from (corruption, inefficiency, expanding too quickly)
>Technology is so prominent that the BoS is becoming increasingly irrelevant
The only argument you have is “well F1 felt more post apocalyptic, and F3 feels post apocalyptic too, even though none of it makes any sense”

>Help Arcade reunite the Enclave and convince them to bomb the NCR
>Immediately sell Arcade into slavery right afterwards
Hope the sodomite has fun

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>The REASONS for war changes
name ONE reason for war other than for power, power to stop evil, power to do you bidding, power for changing or conservating a status, the reason for wanting power may differ but the reazon for war do not, power

B-buh wastelaaand...

i like raul

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You're an unironic brainlet, or you are just baiting

You're just mad that civilization actually developed in the fallout story a whole 100 years after the first one, fo2 and New Vegas are still great ganes by their oen

Maybe you should have actually played the game and soaked in the lore. Maybe read a terminal or two? I bet you didn't even read the 36 lessons of Vivec or Lusty Argonian Maid.

Fallout 3 is literally an OK Bethesda game and NV is a great and more fleshed out continuation. there is a mod called Tale of Two Wastelands where you can even play both on the same character in one continuous go! TTW is literally THE definitive fallout experience.

>you're only allowed to post once per thread

>New Vegas was a western masquerading as fallout.
this argument perplexes me the most. What would you expect of New Vegas without the cowboy aesthetic? Fallout 3 was a boring dredge through post apoc Washington DC and that's it. The Old West aesthetic NV had actually gave it some personality and soul. It's the survivors of a torn world embracing/ returning to what the place used to be.

>cheating whore
>expecting a 30+ traveling caravan owner lady to not have a tryst or 2

I think the method of using the DC metros to maneuver around the rubble and then sneak around through incredibly dangerous open plazas was an amazing experience. The only problem, which is a lingering issue in all Bethesda games, was that the metros were all WAY too copy-pasted and became a nuisance to go through because you'd seen every single metro after the first one. They also should have introduced more verticality but that is of course another issue with Gamebryo that we all know the meme for.

Doesn't he leave you immediatly if you tell the Remnants to bomb the NCR?

Wars are started for different reasons. Before the bombs fell, wars were for domination. After the bombs hit, the wars were for survival of your clan. The main point is that people will always have a reason to fight.

I mean every game has war for different reasons. Defending your clan/country is also part of war that has nothing to do with power.

yup, and you can't convince cave johnson because of reasons even though you can convince the badass spaniard to bomb the legion even though the ncr fucked them over

Why does man seek to dominate? Ask yourself what it is at its core.

>Being okay with someone using a random soldier as a substitute for you

>Fallout NV's companions were all interesting, developed characters, but were almost all unlikable
Speak for yourself. NV companions>Fallout4 cartoon sidekicks

Did you miss the part with the jetsons-esque re-imagining of the white pickett fence 1950s america with a nuclear[-family] twist? You know, the style which 90% of the assets were reused to make that other game you praise?

Did you miss how NV mixes that with a wild west identity (mostly redeveloped post-war) to make the setting unique? I mean shit, do you have any idea how popular cowboys and westerns were in the 50's?

To live long and prosper which is in connection to your survival and serves as a buffer. You can run with that in many different ways. Good or bad. But domination is a reason for war. Defending is a reason for war. Exploring is a reason for war. Food is a reason, tech is a reason.

>complains about the western elements that fit with the setting of NV when one of the first characters you usually meet outside of the Vault in Fallout3 is a cowboy LARPer and the game has a faction whos only point is being cowboy LARPers that hunt bad guys
Not to mention the east coast ain't the best choice for wild west aesthetics either.

I think Bethesds did alright with the companions, 7/12 companions ain't too bad. Not better than NV's 6/8 but fair enough.

its literally in an ending where you fucking No Way Fag'd out of fucking her.

Why wasn't it unique before? Fallout 3 also mixed together old-school america with re-imagined retro sci-fi and post-apocalyptica of which NV is just another further derivative mixing in western. You can make endless derivatives based on endless derivatives in art and aesthetic. What the fuck is your point beyond "I didn't like the art-style." Saying 'It was bland and boring' is objectively false. You're literally praising the exact same art-style in one game but not the other. 90% of the assets. 90%. 90/100 of FO3 exists within New Vegas. Do you see your flawed logic?

Why the fuck did they even let us join the Legion? Their quest line was pretty much unfinished, they had less than half the quests the NCR did, every companion shits on you for joining them, the writers try to shame you if you like them, no visible redeeming factors, etc. Its fucking bullshit. Either make them only an enemy or stop shoving "Legion bad" down my fucking throat every three minutes.

John Goodman

because they are still big enough of a faction to justify it.

I never use him as a companion but he sounds better than you OP. Less faggy too ironically.

but for having , domination, Defending yourself ,Exploring ,having Food, develop tech you need power, of any kind (people believing in you, money) its the driving force of life, power

>90% of the assets. 90%. 90/100 of FO3 exists within New Vegas. Do you see your flawed logic?
Not him, but the assets NV uses from FO3 is thing like trashcans, tin cans, some light armor, car wrecks etc.

>The cannon ending of fallout 1 has them becoming a research hub and bringing tech back to the wasteland for fuck sake.
Wrong. The "cannon" ending is the Brotherhood becoming a mere shell of itself. In Fallout 2, there's a BoS Embassy in San Francisco and it's a sad sight. The guy in there even says it's their fault for being so close-minded.

You forgot
>based on the Roman Empire
>somehow have no concept of technological acquisition or tactical assimilation
Retards of the highest degree.

lol, wrong.

Dont expect the bethesda shill to know fallout lore

Imagine being this user. Imagine having no response so you type out the simplest, sassiest thing you can think of in effort to save face and make the other person look bad. Imagine...

Ceasar wants to settle and civilize using the technology of the strip and hoover dam though

They also used creature models like radscorps, deathclaws, molerats and super mutants. Still failing how any of this is 50s aesthetics.

i could picture a faction of history maniacs wanting to live in 1850 today, and some of their retoric being valid at some point

He's just baiting for (you)s at this point

I see what you're saying but I would say surviving is the driving force for wanting power. There's good and bad power. You can connect together with people to form power. Or divide people for power.

>the only thing that makes his character tolerable and gives him any sort of value is his familial connection to an xenophobic organization that stands in direct opposition to everything he believes in
Oh the ironing.

Sorry i'm not going to go into the GECK to crossreference for you, but you're literally so wrong and the proof is so self-evident to anyone who played both games it's not even worth addressing.

Agreed. Legion literally should have been Enclave-tier antagonist like in FO2

Sounds based

A year is plenty considering they reused the same engine and assets from the first game. Just like what MM did to OoT, showing that plenty of creation is possible.

What? Those things you listed aren't.

What is 'still failing'? Were you making the argument before that Fallout isn't 1950s aesthetic? See:

Still me, but essentially living and happiness is the driving force for everything. Good or bad. War never changing is a fact of life but it's not inherently bad. The only bad part is domination but defending is absolutely okay. Domination which seems to be all NV and 2 focus on.

Yeah it's literally the same engine. They did what modders do basically.

It's true. The world of Fallout 2 and New Vegas feels more more like an anti-drug PSA than a post apocalyptic setting. Fallout 2 also kind of dropped the ball in terms of open endedness of gameplay with the way they heavily reduced the amount things you can from killing enemies and how most quests require nothing more than talking.

for YOU living and happiness is the driving force for everything, but not for everyone, look at the worl we live in and ask yourself WHY is it the way it is, there is something bad inside humans that makes them never be happy with what they have.

if surviving is all that matters, then why rich people want to have more? why didnt napoleon stoped at italy?

Even bethesda knows that's the point of the franchise and drives it down the player's throat.

>we were sold a wasteland with heavy mystical intrigue
FO: 4 cucks please leave

Trying to force "2 and NV are bad mmmkay" won't work or make it any less false, you aren't fitting in, you aren't convincing anyone, and you're both braindead.

>Fallout 2 and New Vegas feels more more like an anti-drug PSA than a post apocalyptic setting.

what? in fallout NV you cant stop being evil just for giving homeless 500 bottles of water, this is more childish than anything NV and 2 had

Wow, we've reached peak contrarianism.

fallout 4 focused harder on morally grey faction struggles than 3 did though

Because he's educated, intelligent, and likable, while you're a cretin.

He's a breath of fresh, gay air in a world ruled by druggies, raiders, and toxic masculinity like Caesar and Mr. House.

The factions in Fallout 4 were only "morally grey" by the fact that they were all pants-on-head retarded. You can't subscribe Good and Evil to genuinely being fucking stupid as shit.

I actually agree with this.
Meanwhile Fallout 4's Boston, while definitely bigger, felt smaller to me. DC had a bunch of unique areas from The Mall, to L'efant Plaza, to the Citadel, Arlington Memorial, etc
In contrast all of Boston felt very samey to me. Everything was crammed together. In one intersection you had raiders, on the next intersection immediately next to that were Super Mutants, and in the immediate next intersection you had Gunners.

Maybe Boston is inherently less interesting than DC, I dunno. It also helps that Fallout 3's art direction was better, I wasn't a big fan of the architecture style or something about Fallout 4.

What does that have to do with what I said?

When I say happiness I mean, like, pleasure. Not pure optimism.

People always start with good intentions. But pleasure is like a drug. Once you're hooked you have to keep it up. That's why poor people see obtaining power as a means for survival and rich people see maintaining power as a means for survival. They're simply giving themselves reasons to obtain pleasure. One does it with defense and the other does it with domination but in the end it's all about pleasuring the ego. Why do people want to survive?

You argue like a liberal

>different devs taking over
Except that most of Black Isle already worked on the first Fallout. Just because you can't see the big names in both, like Boyarski or Avellone, doesn't mean that it was quite literally the same development team.

And your bait is weak

>What does that have to do with what I said?
that you see NV and 2 as a "more of an anti-drug PSA than a post apocalyptic setting" for how bland they presented a "apocalyptic setting", but in fallout 3 you literally become jesus for handing over water bottles
having a moral system in a posapocaliptic world is a bigger sin than showing addictions as in NV and 2

Fallout 4 had no morality within it's factions due to none of the factions having a consistent or coherent ideology. You can even go back to the Minutemen after doing the Nuka Cola DLC and they'll... tell you that being naughty isn't right. That's it. You raid, rape and pillage settlements across the wasteland that you, yourself helped create in some unprecedented act of nihilistic rage - and the Minutemen Protectors of The Wastes(tm) don't attempt to have their revenge or, you know, protect the wastes.

The only faction worth a damn in FO: 4 were the BoS, and even then they're hypocritical maniacs.

>muh personality
>muh soul
No worse then a 3fag rambling on about muh atmosphere

teenagers who grew up with fallout 3 are now posting here, pretending that they've played 1 and 2.

The current user base is a generation ahead of FO3's release, they grew up with it. Same reason you see Halo nostalgia threads now when those games were a joke deserving of ridicule a decade ago. Zoomers have no taste and they literally don't know any better.

K... Keep me posted.

How Fallout 3 works does not change anything about how NV and 2 work.

people dont go to war to survive, they cooperate to survive
man go to war for power, power force the other to let you survive, let you take what is theirs, driving them out of your area
thats why cooperation and goodness exist, for that instict of survivle, because no man is an isle, but war is for power,

>brotherhood being paraded around as the good guys
They still make them assholes, they just don't send you on a suicide mission to get you to fuck off like in 1. That said it would have made more sense for Lyons and his group to split off and call themselves the outcasts rather then the other group still holding onto the brotherhood beliefs. Plus I like the Orange/Black colour scheme, it's part of why I initially liked Duty in Stalker plus the whole military vibe they got going until I realised they were fags.
>implying the Enclave weren't portrayed as nazis in 2

>why do people like him so much?

1. He's in a game where almost all companions are fucking awful and he's one of the least awful.
2. His personal side quest, "Auld Lang Syne", is one of the best in the game and adds a lot of depth to the Enclave, which every other Fallout treats as a faceless enemy.

Sell him into legion slavery.

In 3, yes. In 2 the Enclave just existed to say "lol republicans r dum". Not any better, but there you go.

>tfw autism won't allow me to use ttw because I don't like the idea of the courier and lone wanderer being the same guy
I wish I wasn't like this.

>n-no it was different when 2 did it
Okay.

What you're saying is that in war everyone is in the wrong, but clearly there is an aggressor (domination) and then there is a defender. But both groups are serving their instincts for survival. It's the reason why people want power and to stay in power.

Yeah except none of that appears in 3 except in a single set piece.

While I do think it's stupid to set 3 over 200 years after the bombs felt, it does make at least a little sense for the place to still be an absolute hell hole of a wasteland by that point.
>DC got hit with more nukes than just about anywhere else in the US (The White House is a literal crater now)
>The place is crawling with shit like Monsters, one-dimensional raiders, and hordes of super mutants pouring out of vault 87
I feel like it would have been better to set it at most 100 years after the bombs fell

>Fallout 4's companions are perfect honestly.
As long as you exclude
>Cait
>Preston
>Edgy Raider Preston
>Piper
>Curie
Then sure. I thought Nick was good but fuck I hated how much of a moralfag him and Piper are.

Republicans are dumb.

im not saying that, im sayin war is a form of doing what you want by force, force over others is power

Ladies, ladies, no need to quarrel. In both 2 and 3 Enclave was a faction whose whole point was to just give the player an enemy that uses power armor. They were a bunch of evil-for-the-sake-of-evil meanie doodooheads about as subtle as Skeletor. The original point was that Arcade's quest in New Vegas is the very first (and probably last) time we saw Enclave members that kind of had some kind of a point, or at least a rationale that made sense.

>fallout 3
>Brotherhood members who want to carry out the original mission get called the outcasts
>Lyons and his group who abandoned the mission because Lyons is a moralfag still keep the title of brotherhood
Would have been better for Lyons and his group to have been the smaller weaker group like the outcasts are, and have THEM be called the outcasts. Also what's Yea Forums's opinion of the brotherhood portrayal in 4?

for reasons i do not comprehend they fleshed out the faction that was the most easily identifiable one vs the faction that would be 10x harder to sell

if you defend yourself over an atacker, you are making them by force not take what is your right? that is not bad per se but it involves force, to make someone by force not to take what is yours, to gather enough power not to get overwhelm (im the same user, i made the last post before time)

>war is a form of doing what you want by force, to obtain power

>also war is a form of protecting what you have from force, to cultivate power through cooperation

I thought they were ok in 4, but I don't know why they don't use any of the Enclave shit they got in 3 except for vertibirds.

I'm pretty sure he meant to reply to my post but replied to yours by accident. I agree with your statement though, the Enclave were never good guys so it makes no sense to complain about them being like nazis in 3 imo when they weren't much better then 2. 3's plot is still retarded though and just being a worse take of 1's plot, where instead of getting water for your vault it's the capital wasteland, with the Enclave as the big bad instead of muties.

Dunno, I always got strong Gary Stu vibes from him.

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Likely not wrong. I swear I read somewhere Avellone would DM tabletop sessions and Gannon was Sawyers character, who was also his writer.

>tfw only just realised hes voiced by this guy
Huh.

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He calls Enclave a fascist organization while it's literally a posthumanism oriented (((deep state))) group. What a retard.

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He's way too much of a pussy to be a gary stu. Writer's self insert - maybe, but not one put in to steal the show.

>mfw his middle name is "Israel"

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>Fallout NV is confirmation that the FO2 Chosen one was the typical good guy because the ending themes upon completing Fallout 2 when going evil was humanity reverting back to a tribal state with the destruction of the Enclave, and the good ending representing humanity's continual existence and eventual rebuilding of the Earth, with Arryo becoming a grand city-state and empire. The NCR's intervention in the Mojave is proof that they did not suffer internal strife from instability placed by The Chosen One (Modoc) and external threats such as tribals.

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Well that was unexpected

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Post-apocalyptic jews, dear god.

I fucking hate Chris Avellone. Literally the most low IQ fucking brainlet writer on Earth. I unironically hope he gets fucking aids from getting fucked by a faggot dressed like Ranger Andy and is in horrible pain. When he is on his deathbed a strange doctor comes in. Weakly, the faggot Avellone asks, "Are you here to help me?" hope sparkling in his eyes. Only for the doctor to look at him from behind tinted goggles and say, "No. The depths of your moral sickness, your dissolution? You will serve as the perfect object lesson."

AND THEN THEY KISS.

>The crowd erupts in utter applause

Was the actor that well known beforehand? I'd never heard of him till NV but wouldn't surprise me if he was.

The 'war never changes' line is retarded. I guess someone killing people via drone is exactly like civil war musket lines.

They mean humans engaging in the act of war never changes you brainlet. Despite the literal apocalypse happening, people are still waging war over differing ideology.

Not the point of the line, the point is that the things that cause or are caused by war will never change. Such as greed, corruption, famine. Actual brainlet.

Exactly. War Never Changes. But society does change. 2 and NV are killing interest into the universe. It could be so much more interesting than just focusing on the nihilistic aspects of the phrase

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Lol I love straw man arguments

Despite the apocalypse humanity still survives and chooses to rebuild (mostly)

This

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Because it would not continue on the original plot lines, or even any of the lessor details, from the first two games.
>Acting like people saying wouldn't of is not a change of our way of understanding English like all the other changes to our language and pretending like this one in particular is bad

"War Never changes" was a tagline thrown on to the game at the last minute of development because it sounds loosely inelegant and related to the games. It's not what these games are actually about, retard

There's no fucking survival "themes" in Fallout 1, other than being part of the setting. Where's the survival mechanics to support them? The need to eat, drink, sleep? The water chip is a pretext to send you out exploring post nuclear America, it is not the fixation of the game. That's why the game gives you ample time to fuck around and do many side quests before you even have to scramble for the chip.

The human interactions were the setting.

Oh my god, look at this guy.
You'reacting like it wouldn't make sense for the Brotherhood, the orgaization ehich entire purpose is to preserve and hide old information adn technology, wouldn't go to the fucking capitol.

Same thing with the Enclave. They want to rebuild America, and they understandably want to start with the capitol.

The super mutants were explained as coming out of a vault, which though more of a stretch than the Enclave or Brotherhood, but still made sense as Vault-tec was meant to provide information to the Enclave so the FEV would be tested for them.

>But the Brotherhood are good now!
Their arc in every fucking game they're in is that they need to open up to the outside world. Fallout 3 is just the only game where that decision was already made by the players arrival. They explicitly mention how they have been separated from the west-coast because of this and, as if the previous wasn't enough, the have the faction of the Outcasts how broke from the Brotherhood because of it. How is this bad or unfallout-y?

>Thinking the master and president Eden are remotely similar.
Jesus christ

Those weren't game mechanics that were thought up yet, good sir. Now even crafting is part of survival games

>pretending the water purifier had no reason to exist
>acting like the Enclave didn't have a reason to show up

You don't need to lie to prove that fallout 3's main plot was contrived, man

He reminds me of mi abuelo :)

Yeah, it was the least-bad way to make fallout 3's DC feel important. At least they let you fast travel into DC from wherever

This

Arcade's a whiney piece of shit, Cass is a bitch, Boone is cool, and more Danny Trejo is always fantastic. But Veronica is so fucking annoying man.

in Fallout NV you could stop being evil by killing 2 ghouls. It was unironically far, far worse than the fallout 3 morality system

I don't understand the hate for the enclave either. They were just trying to restore order to America. Brotherhood has always been "all high tech is mien" faggots, that's all they really care about

What a bold-faced lie, there were games that had them already by the end of the 90s, if not earlier since I'm not -that- much of a boomer. Even the infinity engine D&D games had at least need for you to rest after too much time and battles passed.
If Fallout truly valued its survival themes that much Interplay would've found a way to implement them into proper game systems. Obviously they had other priorities, such as fleshing out settlements, having interesting npcs and quests to go around.
Fallout is about societies being reborn after the apocalypse. and heading in the same direction that caused it in the first place. It's why Junktown already had a gambling, drug and prostitution problem, even before New Reno was a thing.

Cait, Curie and Piper are all top tier, far better than fucking Veronica or C*ss and the raider was a dlc companion

Chris avallone not only is a retard who thought putting nihilism in a star wars game was a good idea, but also never wrote fallout NV only it's shitty DLC's like Lonesome Road.

He's a fucking hack and nothing to do with what made fallout NV great

Fallout 1 and 3 are the only deserving of the name fallout because they are about overcoming the harsh wasteland and bringing life back to your with clean water and a habitable environment with the geck
2 and new vegas are just cowboy meme shooters designed for redditors

I always kill both factions when I'm playing New Vegas

I mean, he's right. Who wants to play as bad guys.

>anime poster pretends to know anything about fallout lore while parading reddit's favorite game

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At least you have the freedom to, anyway.

All of 4's companions were overdone memes who felt more like caricatures than characters. Danse was the best of these memes, though.

this is actually scary

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*cough*

I wonder where these people might be coming from?

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Every game it’s a toss-up whether he goes to the Legion or the Ultra-Luxe.

you know new vegas is reddit's favorite game right?

...

All of Fallout NV's companions felt like overwritten trash whose characters only exist when talking to them, and whose >"Deep characterizations" subtracted from any likability they could of had. Making you wish you were travelling alone

Are you seriously saying people who like Fallout 3 most be communists? You know New Vegas is the reddit darling, right?

That's why you either enslave him to Legion or let the Enclave Remnants join Legion

Folks, the "cowboy" aesthetic really fades as you play, unless you try to preserve it. In my current playthrough, the most "cowboy" thing is that Victor exists.

I guarantee you don't have a genuine (non-meme shit) favorite game that isn't also loved by reddit

>societies being reborn after the apocalypse. and heading in the same direction that caused it in the first place

If the whole franchise is based on us not making it, or serves as a warning for the possibility of killing ourselves off, then I already got that by the premise of the nukes destroying society (which also serves as background that justifies a fun wasteland game). Yet THAT didn't even kill us off. Warring factions that get destroyed and rebuilt over again will wear and tear the franchise until even the morals it tries to teach will no longer be shown due to fatigue of the world not building to something.

And people obviously agree that there's something about Fo1 that feels like you're trying to survive in a wasteland. Something about NV makes it feel like a western. I liked how you were trusted into the world in 1 where you needed to find the water chip in a certain amount of days. NV was a poker chip that controlled the territory

Well you are a mailman who just entered Nevada in NV

And then essentially thrusted into everyone's problems and never let you explore truly

Ahahahahaha

>the game gets less rural as you move from the countryside to the big city
shocking

Are you stupid? That's not what I meant. You can play for HOURS and never go to Vegas. The cowboy aesthetic dies east of Mohave Outpost.

Man, the shit people say on Yea Forums to be contrarian

>Tranquility lane (that setpiece?)
>Nuka Cola
>Springdale and all the other suburbs
>Radiation King TV and Radio
>Mr. Handy
>every Pre-War item
>The Music
>50s technology such as bulky mainframes and DOS-like terminals

et fuckin al.

The retro-futurism that defines the entire artstyle of the whole game and series in general only appears in a single set piece?

Man this thread is getting retarded.

>playing FO4 for first time
>30 hours in
>actually enjoying it
It helps that I'm pretending it's not a Fallout game and just your typical AAA sandbox game. Although there's a part of me that just wants to play NV again or even FO3 since the Pitt and Point Lookout were pretty good.

>first and last time an established archetype is deconstructed

It happens in every other form of art an media constantly. Maybe soon videogames won't have dogshit reject writers who only write for video games because they failed to make it in film and literature, so we can enjoy the sort of standard other mediums have enjoyed.

Never played 4, so without spoiling too much can you tell me if blowing up the pentagon is canon? I really hope so.

postal 1

Elder Scroll Games: Protag is always a random prisoner with no real back story.

Bethesda Fallout games: Protag is giving a detailed backstory with family that makes role-playing your own character difficult. I mean why would the dad and husband of the year FO4 male MC become a murdering psychopath when he steps out of the vault.

NV's blank slate protagonist was much better and even then they screwed up a little trying to give them a past in Lonesome Road.

I always trwat lonesome road as the courier meeting a crazy lunatic he has no connection too and offing him before he causes any damage

jesus you are a retard

Don't forget when Bethesda tried to force-feed the player with an epic twist in Far Harbor

>that's a given
>idealism or good morals?
>better than being STRONG NOT LIKE THAT
>do you?
>fuck the Enclave
>I'll give you that one
Not a very convincing argument. I bet you're salty Cass sucked every dick but yours.

>Being some courier but somehow treated as a God and saviour to all people's problems for some reason. Even though a few guys almost killed you pretty easy in the beginning

Completely illogical storytelling

>"Are you a synth?"
>Yes/No/Sarcastic/???
>"What is your earliest memory"
>Every fucking reply is some overly dramatic voice acting that breaks the 4th wall by saying that the very beginning of the game is the first memory the player has
Bruh

>hypocritical
How so, though?

True. I'm glad they'll do away with voice protag next one. I think that VP is what streamlined all the story quests and made them too simple and had glaring problems with its storytelling.

House takes notice of you because you somehow managed to survive being shot and tracked Benny all the way to NV. The other factions take notice since they saw you entering/leaving the Lucky 38 and realize that you have access to House.

Based

But why does House think like that? Benny is a big time dude in NV and left a bad paper trail that many people including House was aware of. Surviving a bullet to the brain is luck based. We dont treat people in the real world as powerful if they survived them, just statistically lucky. But yeah it makes sense for the other factions to take notice if House did.

I would go as far and say Fallout3 did post-apocalypse better than even the ORIGINAL Fallouts.

Pretty sure most people into videogames knew bethesda pretty well before FO3 came out.

>ITT: brainlets who dont understand the games they play
Yea Forums everyone

I actually felt that way too.

if you defend yourself over an atacker, you are making them by force not take what is your right? that is not bad per se but it involves force, to make someone by force not to take what is yours, to gather enough power not to get overwhelm (im the same user, i made the last post before time)

Uuggghh.

You have to go back

I actually came here to post this. Are you me?

Replaying Fallout 3 currently with mods. The crashing and jank is jarring at times but it's honestly the best fallout. Might replay 4 with mods soon. New Vegas after that.

kill all fags

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>Replaying Fallout 3 currently with mods. The crashing and jank is jarring at times but it's honestly the best fallout. Might replay 4 with mods soon. New Vegas after that.

play Fallout - New California, its good i tried it and for a mod its fucking good

>Separated from the West coast
Even though they had fags come in during Tactics who used pull tabs instead of bottle caps

You're not making them, they are making/forcing you to defend I would say. The attackers are the ones that keep the negative impact warring makes. They're the ones that would drop the nuke on you most likely. If they were to win the world would go authoritarian and so it would be imperative that they lose every time they rise. Not everyone is after control like what's depicted in NV

Looks potentially kino user, thanks for the recommendation

Because you hunted the dude across the map and took him down for revenge/ to complete your job after he shot you in the head. That's pretty notable dedication.

there is no forcing some one in war, if an a defender dont want to keep a value they simply dont apply effort in conserving that asset, but if you want to conserv said status you have to apply sertain effort to win over the attacker

now tell me, to defend yourself dont you need domain over said asset?

>now tell me, to defend yourself dont you need domain over said asset?

Of course. Dominion is completely natural in all forms of life. Dominion doesn't necessarily mean for others to keep out. It must be that they find a space that works with everyone else's space too. Because having a domain is essential for survival. When someone is willing l to kill you over it then they are power grabbing, forcing you into war.

>When someone is willing l to kill you over it then they are power grabbing, forcing you into war.

dominion is not inherent, dominion over an asset must be exercised either by cooperation and understanding or by force from outside threats

if someone comes over your house and threatens to kill you over what you have there, you can either flee and give you asset OR fight back.
if you fight back you have to prebail against the other person either making them flee or killing them, and to achive that you had to have someway previously to either train, or buy a gun.
you are not born with guns on your hand, you have to buy them, and to buy something is to use aquissitive POWER to make a transaction with someone else for said weapon

every war, either for defending yourself or accuier something is a form of applying and gaining power

>pejote dream
Is this the new hip way of saying fever dream?

peyote is a drug much like marihuana that is twise as potent

Based on what we learn in 4 I'd wager non canon. Brotherhood controls the Capital Wasteland and a large portion of the east coast. They're not as "righteous" as they were in 3, basically running everything like a medieval order state.

Fallout 3 is literally just a soft-reboot of the series that takes story elements from 1 and 2 so it makes sense that it feels like 1. Good bait though.

What you say is all true. It's the fight or flight mechanic in us but an entire country or tribe might not have a place to run. If the tribe or country decides not to fight then they are either wiped out or put into slavery. Both options you lose the value of your life. Which the point of living

They had to account for end-game characters, which ended up making hillbillies wearing cloth able to withstand a full clip to the head from a sniper rifle.
It's funny in how absurd it is.
These games would be enjoyable if they weren't so janky.

Play TTW which is FO3 + NV in one game. It ports over all of the QoL improvements of NV to 3 and doesn't mess with 3's experience much other than putting some new vegas items in the loot tables. It fully supports most new vegas mods and many mods are made for TTW functionality, you can even play hardcore mode and there will be doctor bags and wild edible vegetation ported into FO3. FO3 hardcore was fun as fuck and really immersive. Just get those limb strengthening perks early and collect every piece of surgical junk you come across. You'll need the doctor bags.

>Fallout 3 is an actually great game
How is that case when the writing is dull, the gameplay is barely serviceable and it's riddled with bugs?

i understand that, i truly do, but as cruel as it sounds having control over your own life its not inherent to our existance, if someone kill us for our meat or try to make us a slave, we have to fight for it not to happen and have dominion over our own fate, but if we fail to have the power to stop them by any means, its their win
like atens said to melos sitizens "before killing them all "the strong makes whatever they want, the weak must endure his fate"
war is hell but there is nothing we can do against it in this existance (at least for now i hope) because someone always will want our assets

It revived the fallout world and put it on the map big time. Everyone was talking about it when it came out. I bought it because my friends kept telling me all the things they encountered. Hit men coming after you. Blowing up Megaton. It sounded great and was great.

>bang bang kaboom great game

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Can't really blame Avellone for Star Wars nihilism when he was just spelling out what George did with the prequels.

It was pretty well received before it had NV to be compared to and pretty much scratched everyone's bethesda itch after oblivion. It's a pretty contrived story and kind of acts more like a setpiece for you to do your own head-larps like all bethesda games generally are. New Vegas had better writing sure, but it's still comparatively trash if you consider film and literature. So what's left is the gameplay, which although NV improves on in key ways, it plays exactly the same. I don't understand the hate for FO3 because its virtually the same game. One is just an improved expansion. Hell, even Oblivion and Skyrim are not very big departures from them either. They all play more or less the same.

Lots of people.

[Intelligence]You are an abortion of science, you must kill yourself

>character is a retard
>your brain is still smart when you have to talk to it at one point

fallout 3 and 4 strived from the main focus of the beloved first games, wich was the strugles of factions over a ravaged wasteland, and in a rpg story matters, matters a lot
>comparatively trash if you consider film and literature
too bad its not a movie or a book, its a game where you can role play in the scenario of a dying world and how factions fight for the remains
>They all play more or less the same.
if the gameplay is the same, why not choose the rpg with the better story and quest and who uses the main ideas of the original games to present the world?
what benefit fallout 3 had from being a fallout game? literaly only the pipboy and the marketing name

Lots of immature, edgy 12 year olds you mean.

[Speech 100] Everyone commit suicide

You can just say Ulysses has the wrong guy, or you were doing a simple delivery job and this whole “dude it was your home” bullshit is him just being a massive traumatized schizo

>if i play like the good guys stacy will give me good boi points
you are literaly a fucking quivering vagina, always afraid of playing other roles in an electronic game for fear someone will think bad of them
a literal robot too stupid to wander how it would be to role play in a role play game
i pity you, and me because i got le trowled

Dear old friends, remember Navarro.

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Holy shit two based anons who AREN'T perpetuating the same bullshit spouted by ever supposed fallout fan.
F1 is by far my favorite fallout game, 2 and NV dont capture the tone/atmosphere of fallout 1. They're the games that caused people to go "bro its not post apoc, its POST post apoc!" ignoring that the first game was literally just a post apocalyptic game.
F3 was shit but it captured the tone better than 2 or NV.

i love this dlc

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>F3 was shit but it captured the tone better than 2 or NV.
That would be true if Fallout3 took place 20 years after the bombs and not 200.

>ignoring that the first game was literally just a post apocalyptic game.
At least it made sense at the time considering the in-universe technology.
There is no reasonable way of explaining why the Capital Wasteland is in such a disorganized and dilapited state two (2) centuries after the bombs fell.

Sounds awesome

>but as cruel as it sounds

Only a human can think in terms like that. Animals can't do that. They just do. It's the knowledge of good and evil. Too much of one and we lose our humanity. To act for yourself and power grab is a sign of losing one's humanity. It is thinking at a small picture and those types of people are closer to animals than the defender. So therefore the defender must uphold goodness by applying warfare as defense. It's using knowledge of good and evil at the same time which is the most human you can be which equals out to more good than bad.

Lol my friend blurts out the post post apocalypse all the time. Really is annoying but I love him. It's like a chicken with chess.

But fallout 1 took place 100 years after the bombs fell and it was still in a shitty state.

>ignoring the FEV vault constantly creating new supermutants
>ignoring the Enclaves constant fuckery
>ignoring the mercenary groups killing all the others for money
>ignoring the ghouls that fill the metros making it near impossible to travel
The whole point of F3 is that the capital wasteland is basically a shithole in a constant tug-of-war between many different opposing sides making it impossible for any real communities to survive.

>Fallout is set 80 years after the war and we see early civilizations
>Fallout 2 is set 80 years after Fallout and we see more developed civilizations
>Fallout 3 goes backwards again
Fallout was a post apoc game, Fallout 2 is set many decades in the future and shows reasonable progress from that state. What's the problem? Saying
>they are all post post apoc
is wrong, yeah. But saying that
>Fallout 2 doesn't capture the tone of Fallout
Doesn't acknowledge that it's not supposed to share the same tone/atmosphere. That's why it's set 80 years in the future.

Not him but it is basically a deviation of the original game. It's a bait and switch. Fo3 brought it back to formula

>Fallout 1 world is in a somewhat better state than 3
>Fallout 2 shows that, many decades later, it has improved even further still
>Fallout 3, set 30+ years after Fallout 2 looks worse than Fallout 1
You can argue that everybody on the East Coast is retarded and not a single organization or community managed to spring forth in that entire time, but it's still pretty hard to believe unless you flat out ignore 1 and 2.

>Fallout 3 goes backwards again
FO3 also takes place on the other side of the country, and has everything listed to deal with. FO3 does some dumb stuff, but it's really not unreasonable for it to be a total shithole while the west coast is slightly better off.

>>ignoring the Enclaves constant fuckery
The Enclave recently arrived in the region, and they don't make themselves known until the events of the main story.
>>ignoring the mercenary groups killing all the others for money
'All the others' is a gross exaggeration and it's not shown in-game that they go on rampages on a regular basis.
>>ignoring the ghouls that fill the metros making it near impossible to travel
Why are there plenty of factions within the ruins? Why would your protagonist, a 19yo kid with no particular combat experience, be able to make your way there and not other people?

Once again, you can't reasonably explain why the East Coast is in a dilapidated state when the West Coast was an equally shitty disorganized place and managed to get its shit together.

Which is what ever. But leaving it at
>Fallout 2 atmosphere isn't Fallout 1 atmosphere
is disingenuous. That's why the second one is set so many years in the future. To show the advancement of civilization from the first game. Bethesda decided that it wasn't epic enough so they set it in the East Coast and decided that everyone there is still building huts with sticks.
see above and
My point isn't that the East Coast shouldn't be a shit hole, it's that the reasons for 2 and NV being as developed as they are make sense.They aren't supposed to have the tone and atmosphere of 1. The only reason 3 does is because Bethesda went out of their way to do so.

>almost all unlikeable
I fail to see how Raul, ED-E, Rex, or Lily (ie half the main companions) were unlikeable

The connection between ED-E and the courier that goes on throughout the game feels stronger to me then any other companion in 3 or 4

It's all contrived though. It really didn't have to be 80 years after the fisrt and instead could have been some other place in the world at that time. Bigger picture is the deviation of the original interests people had is the problem. Really is a bait and switch scenario here

>Rex
FUCK THAT CUNT
FUCK THIS SMALL BRAINED PIECE OF SHIT THAT HAS TO BE BABYSIT CONSTANTLY BECAUSE HE KEEPS RUSHING INTO A GROUP OF ENEME THAT CAN TEA HIM ABARPT

Man where do I begin with this dumb post...

>fallout 3 and 4 strived from the main focus of the beloved first games, wich was the strugles of factions over a ravaged wasteland
They're Bethesda games in a Fallout setting. Nothing but the lore is the same. By this logic you think Jedi Outcast is a shitty game because it's not KOTOR.
>and in a rpg story matters, matters a lot
B-E-T-H-E-S-D-A Game. We're comparing Fallout NV to 3 here, are we not? We already agree that NV has better writing, but bethesda games are all about the quality of the sandbox and modding. Oblivion and Skyrim have pretty shit writing but they're still fun. FO3 and NV share the same engine and most assets. They're the same game. It doesn't make sense that you had fun playing one but not the other unless you played them in chronological reverse, zoomer.
>if the gameplay is the same, why not choose the rpg with the better story and quest and who uses the main ideas of the original games to present the world?
... Just play TTW and not choose? All you're saying is that NV is better, which I never contested. FO3 still good if you like that type of game because remember, they're still essentially the same
>what benefit fallout 3 had from being a fallout game? literaly only the pipboy and the marketing name
This is too retarded for me to confront. I guess i'll reuse my last analogy, what benefit Kotor had being starwars game?

ok

Kill yourselves you worthless niggers.

Super mutants are so weird and out of place as companions it really inhibits my LARP. Super mutants in general are also Fallout's weakest idea.

>milksop
What are you, from the victorian era?

>he spared the mojave bos
You have 20 seconds to explain yourself, shithead.

I just realized that for all his faggotry, Arcade still happily helped me massacre the inhabitants of BoS bunker

I wish starbucks was cheaper. Mocha frappes are so damn good, holy fuck.

>problem
If people don't like post post apoc, that's fine. It makes sense why Fallout 2 and NV has a more advanced world than Fallout 1 though.
Why I replied to
is because I fail to see where lies the
>bullshit
Obsidian wanted Fallout 2 to show a world that progressed beyond what it was in Fallout 1. They made sure it was set further in the future from Fallout 1 and it made sense that the successful communities from the first game had grown. What is contrived? That you don't like that the world didn't remain stagnant? I just don't see what is a bait and switch. Do you get mad at every sequel that has the in game world progress since the first game?

Sure it makes sense but it's not growing the way it should. Meaning the setting should always be post apocalypse. Clearly the writing caused it to go to post post. I like 3 bringing it back to post and I do think Bethesda knows how to write interesting stories (not 4, 76 had good lore) with keeping the "War Never Changes" philosophy.

>it's not growing the way it should
So how should people have developed?
>the setting should always be post apocalypse
Personal opinion, and nothing more.

Like I said, if you personally don't like post post apoc, great. Nothing about it is bullshit, contrived, or bait and switch though. It makes complete sense and it's not inherently bad. You can make an argument that the writing of 2 and NV is objectively bad, but if all you're saying is
>I personally don't like post post apoc
don't dress it up as some inherent wrongdoing

>Do you get mad at every sequel that has the in game world progress since the first game?
most of them, yeah, sequels tend to suck and destroy the much more competent vision of their source material

They were homophobic, heteronormative bigots and racist towards outsiders. Just like the Enclave!

You mean a game that had to be built ground up, with textures, physics and engine changes, that focused on having many explorable and interesting dungeons and locations as well as quests has less than a game that already had an engine made for it that focused entire on quests?

My god

You're forgetting the selling point of the franchise as a whole which was post apocalyptic survival. The first game was about surviving in a wasteland and making humanity a little better. The 3rd one did this as well. 2 and NV still sold itself on the aesthetics of 1 but are post post and heavy in political intrigue. If you like it's that's also fine but you can't ignore that it is a total switch in themes compared to what the original devs that worked on 1, turning it into just an aesthetic. And all I can see in the future is a heavy reset in the world going in that direction, eventually.

>Dull writing
just wrong, if you spent any time outside the main quest you would know just that.
>Barely serviceable gameplay
It's an RPG and exploration game having great combat is more of a second or third tier priority
>riddled with bugs
had far fewer than New Vegas, and honestly I couldn't really find many in over 100 hours of playing

strived's not a word my man.

Fallout 3 is great man what are you talking about
Fucking how, New Vegas has some of the worst expansions I've seen with the exception of maybe Honest Hearts

Both games involve surviving post apocalypse. That you personally did not want to game to going any further post apocalypse does not mean it's a bait and switch. I'm not "forgetting" anything. I'm explicitly stating that you do not personally like that Fallout 2 developed the world from the first game and that you are trying to dress that up by asserting that this development was in any way disingenuous

Fallout 3 didn't want to confuse fans by having the game be set before 2. It also wanted to take advantage of being the first open world post apocalypse game, so of course shit was deserted. Fallout 4 is where it really is unjustifiable

>2 and NV ain't about survival
Reminder that it was New Vegas that introduced SURVIVAL mode in the 3D Fallouts and that Fallout4 had to patch it in because Bethesda didn't learn anything from NV. 2 and NV are still about survival, but they also expand it in the context of larger societies, beliefs and ideas that either stem from before the war or developed as a consequence of the apocalypse.

Fuck you fuck you fuck you

Survival mode was shit, it wasn't hard to find water, food or beds, they were just tacked on meters that added nothing to the game.

Fallout 3 is more of a survival game since the armor calculations make you weak and vulnerable and the best weapons are autos which makes you almost always be running out of ammo, at least in the early game.

Not him but because the East didn't have the Vault Dweller AND Chosen One solving literally all their problems for them. D.C is essentially at Fallout 1 levels of civilization.

>weak and vulnerable
>auto best weapons
>running out of ammo
You act like any Bethesda game isn't ranged stealth simulator

Plus DC is a much smaller area than literally all of California. So it makes sense that this small area only has a handful of cities.

It's also a major city area, so it was more radiated and dangerous than the no-where countryside of fallout 1 and 2's California

It is literally a bait and switch tactic and it's starting to sound like you are playing semantics. Fo1 and 3 went somewhere with their stories while keeping it post. 2 and NV are going nowhere with their stories while making it post post. You clearly like pointless politics in a post apocalypse game though and see no issues with it.

true, but if you don't save scum or play a stealth build, Fallout 3 is much more of survival experience than New Vegas

They added survival mechanics but it did not contribute like you think it did. It's a skin deep view of what is really going on

You keep slipping tangential insults towards the games into your arguments and it completely undermines your argument.

lol seethe harder fag

5.56 ammo is cheap as dirt in Fallout3. All you have to do is swim to Rivet City, kill some weak raider trash and loot them, sell it buy up the ammo in Megaton/Rivet and go outside one of them to spam wait until the gun trader arrives and buy his ammo as well. After that use the wait function for them to resupply and rinse and repeat. The only reason ammo becomes scarce is because you could encounter one of the stupidly spongey feral reavers, SM overlords or albino radscorps, especially when playing on very hard. With Operation Anchorage getting the best PA is piss easy too

I can recognize when someone is playing semantics. The bright side is that you simply want me to see the similarities in them but I am showing how vastly different they actually are. Calling it semantics to me was fair game. But truly if it or anything else came off as crass to you then realize I meant every word I said but not in a disparaging way. Realize I do see the politics as pointless since all it will lead to is a hard reset. Then all your choices mean nothing. War Never Changes doesn't mean nihilism all the way to me

>You
Guess again.

i think that honestly people like him because he's actually a character and not a dude that just walks behind you while killing everything for you.

I dunno, you keep claiming you don't like nihilism but you hate 2 and NV for developing the wasteland, and praise 1 and 3 when they, without any development, would be stuck in permanent stagnation and ruin?

>playing semantics
You started by saying it was bullshit, I asked why and explained how the time difference and state that the first game was left in did not make it bullshit. You went on to say it was a bait and switch, I explained that the post apocalyptic theme is still there, and now you're claiming that the stories are going nowhere.
I really don't see what you're trying to get at. I summarized my thoughts quite clearly in
Again, you're clearly personally not a fan of where the games went. Great. again
>Nothing about it is bullshit, contrived, or bait and switch though. It makes complete sense and it's not inherently bad. You can make an argument that the writing of 2 and NV is objectively bad, but if all you're saying is
>I personally don't like post post apoc
don't dress it up as some inherent wrongdoing

Looks like Jews survived both holocausts B)

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1 and 3 have progress that are about bringing humanity together and that we survive together. 2 and NV ideas of progress that everyone has a faction vying for dominance. Ends up leaving the premise of 1 immediately due to that

The environment was very fallout but the story was a real regression

>1 and 3 have progress that are about bringing humanity together and that we survive together
Except 1 was full of competing factions and groups, they just weren't as established or large as 2.

I never called anything bullshit? Go back and read the thread you mixed me up with someone.

Kind of interesting that the FO3 DLC contained some of Bethesda's best stuff (The Pitt, Point Lookout) and some of its worst (Zeta).

Based, look all the weabos and incels agonizing after the blast from this bomb of a post. May this user will forever be blessed

>1 and 3 have progress that are about bringing humanity together and that we survive together.
What? There is nothing in 3 about having for surviving together, maybe aside from the Arefu quest. Fallout 3 is about 2 factions that have no place being on the east coast fighting about who gets to purify the water because reasons.

see
The reply chain isn't that long. Even if you're the original user, you should be able to keep up with it enough to understand what
are responding to. Calling me out on semantics when this entire chain is in response to the tone of the original post being replied to is senseless.

There are reasons you but just don't like it. There are reasons obsidian went the route they did with 2 but I don't like it.

The way you're arguing is that you don't like 3 because existing lore from the previous game. I don't like 2 because it changed what Fo1 was trying to get across. Something 3 fulfills.

Basically you're ignoring what 1 meant and only focusing on the story 2 created out of it. It really is like the SW 7 take over. I can see how people mistaken aesthetics for fitting the tone. But really it is completely missing every point of the themes/philosophy. You don't see the differences because you are only looking at the logic of 2 and NV storytelling and saying it all makes sense at face value. I'm saying that, while competent, it should have been told in a different world altogether. I'm sure you'll like Outer World

One of the issues in this conversation is that you keep insisting what you got out of it is objectively what the devs intended.

There was argument over who should be in the team for 2. It ended up making big talent leave. Why do you think the individuals in the team mattered so much? Because of the direction of the world.

he was funny

Now THIS is a good Fallout thread. Actual discussion, even if half of it is contrarianism, and shutting down the faggots that always try to work psyop schizo politic bullshit into each and every argument

SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT 3 AND 4 AND GIVE ME A FUN BUILD TO RUN IN NV or 2

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I'd fuck Curie and Cait but they were lame companions. Nick was the only decent one.

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4 years of development vs. 1.5 years. Fuck off Bugthesda shill.

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Kids. The answer is always kids

>the post apocalyptic theme is still there
It isn't. The only game with a post-apocalyptic theme was Fallout 1. The other Fallouts have a theme on rebuilt society after the nuclear war, or a post-post-apocalyptic theme like that user is saying. It gives more space to politics and less about survival and radiation in a wrecked world.
You confuse theme with setting. All Fallout games are set in a post-apocalyptic setting, but not all of them have a post-apocalyptic theme.

Read the entire reply chain to understand the point I am making. I explicitly label Fallout 2 post post apocalypse. That is not the issue I was addressing. It's that Fallout 1 was in fact, post apocalypse, Fallout 2 was post post apocalypse, the devs gave reasoning for this. See

hardcore functionalist bush light infantry. Obviously hardcore mode but you have to keep your weight extremely minimal, shed your kit to the bare essentials and scavenge/craft what you need based on your situation. Absolutely no hoarding and keep low and realistic ammo counts. Use backpack mods that have the container functionality for your Roleplay. Hike out from the staging area, drop your pack and hit the mission then rally back and extract. Functionalist means you do pre-expedition prep and adapt your kit to the exact environment you expect. Fit your style of weapon to the mission.

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>we will never get to explore New Arroyo
Smdh.

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I hope you made the right choice and exterminated all of the White Legs instead of running away from Zion like a pussy, you wouldn't want to disappoint Randall Clark would you?

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>New Vegas has some of the worst expansions I've seen
What the fuck is going on in this thread?

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Why is Mothership Zeta so disliked, outside of the lore rape? I thoroughly enjoy blowing those aliens to pieces, especially the docile scientist ones in red jumpsuits.

>fallout 1 was about water
Did you play the game for more than 30 seconds?

Obsidian shills took the day off.

>Fo1 devs created:
a literal D&D module, where everything is multiplied by post-apocalypse or sci-fi.
>closed paladin order
>sci fi orcs
>zombies
>time warps
>beings changed by magical science
>big enemies
They even had a literal, literal fucking thieves guild.

>shooting DLC
>in the worst shooter of 2008
gee user, I don't know.

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>water purifier had a reason to exist
Megaton was providing people with fresh water (since it had nothing else to trade with and had an endless source of water).
Father's purifier was retarded, because it was taking small batches of water to cleanse it from radiation and drop it back into the radiated water of Potomac. It was also situated in the middle of the wasteland, the worst place to set it in.

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I'm gonna be honest, I like all of the Fallout games. They all cover different themes of humanity and government. I've played em all, minus Tactics which I really need to.

I don't understand the shit flinging in this thread, none of the Fallout games are really terrible except that Xbox game called Brotherhood of Steel and maybe 76 but I read a lot on 76 and the pre-war stuff isn't terrible, definitely something going there.

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Have you actually tried replaying FO3?

I find that without the novelty of being the first to have an immersive full 3d world, all that's left is pure mediocrity.

I those posts only truth is that Pitt is best part of Fallout 3, only place where it reached the tone of originals in addition some of the corporate e-mails in random offices and that android guest.

I too, dislike the two best games in the series.

It's all in good fun, user. They're all good in different ways.

LA Boneyard and SF bay area... nowhere countryside.

Ayy lmaos are implied to be part of cannon. Personally I considered it a oversized special encounter that happens to have fixed location due to game engine handling randomness pretty badly.

Hallucinogenic cactus. Basically magic mushrooms that happens to be cactus for some odd reason.

>FO1
>Super Mutants are an organized threat under the thrall of the Master. Some are smarter, some are dumber, all are more powerful, some are master assassins, all serve the Master's will
>FO2
>Super Mutants are scattered without the will of the Master to unify them, and are hunted down by human civilization for their role in a near-extinction event. Some fight, some hide. One, Marcus, is able to forge a friendship with a former Paladin (after they tried to kill each other), and founds a safe haven town where all are welcome. Still, tensions persist, on both the mutant and human side, and Marcus admits in private he wishes the Master had succeed sometimes
>FNV
>Super Mutants are driven even deeper into seclusion as society takes back the wastes. Marcus was driven from his home to a new one, only to be driven from that home when a batch of those formerly mentioned assassin mutants show up, all of whom are shown to be crazy thanks to abuse of stealth boys, becoming increasingly paranoid and often developing multiple personalities. Marcus is forced to retreat again, trying to play the good neighbor, increasingly critical of all these societies he's lived long enough to see the full rise of
>FO3
>Super mutants are orcs

I could go through the same process for the Brotherhood of Steel, ghouls, Vaults. But I won't, since it'd be a waste of time to explain to someone who couldn't even pick up on the most obvious Super Mutant developments.

3D fallouts are shit.

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>>Super mutants are orcs
Counts for 1, they are simply a level better than orcs from dnd.
Still better than 3, where they have literally nothing behind them except for the fact that they somehow manage to scare people into hiding and avoiding the city ruins while also being unable to kill/capture fucking kids living right in front of them.

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>Counts for 1
I'd be prepared to argue this but I won't since it doesn't matter either way. The point remains that 2 and NV took something from the first game and developed it, and actually thought about how it would develop following what happened in the first game, which they also do with the Brotherhood, and then the Enclave in NV, and Vaults throughout. Ghouls don't get as much focus but they're also a less unified body of people.

Every Bethesda Fallout game is more interested in resetting things back to zero than actually developing on anything. It boggles my mind to think anybody would reverse that accusation toward the other games.

"Its their game durrrh they chose to
make a water down version of fallout its kwell they didnt want to play the strongest parts of the frsnchise they brought just to make the game truly theirs"

Thats how you sound

>RPG game
How are you supposed to role play in a game so nonsensical as fo3

Who said i did? Used Stealth Boys to steal a suit of Power Armor then blew up the bunker with Veronica inside. No regrets.

Arcade is an annoying fag.
>MR.HOUSE BAD
>TOTAL ANARCHY AND DEATHS OF THOUSAND GOOD

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NV is dogshit.

>but bethesda games are all about the quality of the sandbox and modding.
Modding is completely outside their control, beyond their willingness to allow it. You can't say the game is good "Because the mods are good," that's someone else's handiwork.

So basically you're saying all Besthesda games have is the sandbox.

Very good, that's exactly what I said. Fallout 3 is a good game but not a good Fallout game. I'll ignore the s*y elements of your reply

Most people like NV just for Mr. House. The objectivist fantasy.

Yup. Is skyrim really anything else than a barbie dress up sex RP Argonian pregnancy fetish simulator? The other stuff might as well be Call of Duty single player.

Yeah, why do people like Elon Musk so much? Because they need to fanatize narcissic pricks to forget their miserable lives.

>back to zero
They can't even create a canon for their main game series.

8ch shut down and now they're crawling back here

I feel the same way, user.

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