Why is DS2 plot/lore so bad...

>It's so detached from everything else that the events of DS2 could never have happened and nothing would be different in 3's story
That's what's good about it, and every call back brings it down. DS1's story is self contained and it didn't need the absolute irrelevance of DS3's plot and if they focused entirely on Gael and the Ringed City and eschewed the fire stuff the story would have been 7 million times better.

Dozens if not hundreds if not thousands of kingdoms rised and fell inbetween Lordran and Drangleic, and it's made pretty clear with NPCs like Straid that hundreds more will appear after Drangleic crurmbles. By the time II happens, the events of 1 are more like historical events. For example, the Lost Sinner drops the "Soul of the Lost Sinner". In NG+, however, it drops the "Old Witch Soul
", which reads
>Soul of the ineffable. This once-magnificent soul continues to exert influence over the land, even after the eons have reduced it to these remnants.
and with which you can create Flame Weapon and the Chaos Blade, making it a clear reference to the Witch of izalith
Same with Gwyn being referred to as "God of Sun" because his name has been forgotten with the eons. DSII is full of stuff with that, it's great

>That's what's good about it, and every call back brings it down.
Unless it's too detached. I honestly have a very hard time considering DS2 'canon', even compared to the mess that DS3 ended up being (and isn't there a chance DS2 is the closest to being "it was all a dream"?). I'm also weirded out that DS2's best parts bar-none were all reserved for DLC, with NPCs that pale like fucking crazy to DS1's cast.

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3's story is very much a continuation of 1's, where we see the actual result of a repeating cycle of linking the first flame over and over and over again. The world is truly on its last legs and is reduced to nothing but ash and dust in the end, returning to its natural state of being; a world of grey devoid of light or dark. If it didn't have a connection to 1 I can't imagine what it even would have been about, much in the same way that 2's story really suffers by being theoretically tied to 1's but in practice has no relevance. It occurs somewhere in the timeline after 1's, but that's all we know and that's basically the only connection it has to the Dark Souls setting, from a story perspective.

For what it's worth, III definitely references II enough to make it canon. To take that into account though you need to consider III canon/good, so...

>For what it's worth, III definitely references II enough to make it canon
I've always wondered about this: Drang set mentions that they're descendents from the land "known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire". What's with this?
It's ballbusting Lordran as the place where it actually came from, and ignoring all the good lore from DS2 where you forsake the throne.
>To take that into account though you need to consider III canon/good, so...
There's this weird ass consistency where all the lands mentioned from DS1 have actually been around this whole time. Where were they in DS2? Does this mean DS2 actually took place in a far different area?
Both sequels are a hot mess. In a perfect world Bamco would've been like "hey we can wait it's cool" and FromSoft could've bided their time making ONE sequel combining all the good from DS2 and 3.

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What people seem to forget is that it was II that introduced the concept of cycles

For all the shit I give Dark Souls 2, at least it was interesting.
Still, fuck that game

>hearing about DS2 before release
>"neat, I wonder what's after the Age of Fire"
>"...oh just more of them"
should've ended it at DS1, maybe that should be my headcanon.

Arguable. The culmination of 1's plot is the chosen undead linking the fire (or not, but I don't think that's canon) because gwyn's attempt did not stick for long. A cycle has already been established: a great power sacrifices their soul to extend the age of fire, but it is soon consumed and a new power is needed to rekindle the flame. 2 simply runs with that and 3 answers it with finality.

>or not, but I don't think that's canon
I think that was the point of putting this giant wall of time between each game, shit could've gone south a few ages ago and eventually recovered.

>Drang set mentions that they're descendents from the land "known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire". What's with this?
Drang as in Drangleic
>It's ballbusting Lordran as the place where it actually came from, and ignoring all the good lore from DS2 where you forsake the throne.
Vendrick did link the flame, did he not? It was probably more of a simple nod to "yo this kingdom had a bunch of undeads that wanted to link the fire" more than anything else
I was thinking more about stuff like Alva invading you and Karla being his daughter, Earthen Peak appearing in The Ringed City...
>There's this weird ass consistency where all the lands mentioned from DS1 have actually been around this whole time. Where were they in DS2? Does this mean DS2 actually took place in a far different area?
The way it felt to me was that by the time II takes place all the DS1 lands like Carim or Thorolund are gone, while during III they use the "lands converge" excuse to have them be back, just like Anor Londo

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The whole King Vendrick thing is Yui Tanimura admitting he fucking failed at making a worthy sequel and he got depressed because of it.

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Dark souls 2 is great but of course its a flawed game, mainly because of the hell it went through development that caused it to be rushed out and completely remade in less than a year
It was a sequel in the most literal sense familiar yet fresh, it brought new aspects to the game and changed some core mechanics around but not much so you have to relearn everything. if it wasnt for the dev hell it went through, it would´ve been the greatest game of the series.

3 was a soulless rehash that didnt add anything new and just rode on everything that already existed from previous games, its not original at all. quite literally reuses entire zones from its predecessors

I think Drangleic is called like that since it housed the Throne of Want, a proxy to link the first flame.

>3 was a soulless rehash that didnt add anything new and just rode on everything that already existed from previous games, its not original at all. quite literally reuses entire zones from its predecessors
at least in 3 it makes thematic and story sense to reuse the old zones rather than 2's completely disconnected references. Why the fuck was ornstein hanging out in heide's tower?

I always thought that vendrik stole the lord vessel and smashed it in the basement of the house in majula where all the fragments are half buried in the ground near the chest. He gained those souls and that also allowed him to make the golems or allowed aldia his bro to make the golems which feeds into the ancient dragon being not a dragon at all. That's just my reaction and I don't really lore hunt much.

What happened to this man's nose? Was he Americanised?

old dragonslayer used dark attacks, so I was never convinced that it was actually him

>or not, but I don't think that's canon
It very well could be. For starters, DaS wasn't planned as a franchise the original idea is that you could choose whatever ending you wanted for the world to follow, same with DeS and helping the Old One or not. Now, multiverses are canon in Dark Souls. They might've started as an excuse to explain multiplayer but at the end of the day you visit Lautrec's world to kill him, Miyazaki confirmed if you save Solaire and summon him to fight Gwyn he links the flame in his own universe, you can help Anri kill Aldrich in her universe... it's very well possible that the Age of Dark did happen at some time in some universe, but it either did not happen in the Ashen One's, or something similar to Ludleth happened and the Dark only really reigned for a while until some fuck decided to burn again

Gwynevere was an illusion, why couldn't Ornstein be, too? In II he uses dark attacks instead of lightning, that alone explains everything you need to know about him.

>Vendrick did link the flame, did he not?
So the set refers to Vendrick? That’s not an angle I considered, and one that makes sense.
>...while during III they use the "lands converge" excuse to have them be back, just like Anor Londo
Then there should be some DS2 lands amongst them, and if Drangleic was built upon Lordran then they wouldn’t have ‘gone’ anywhere. I kind of get the impression DS3 sort of ‘bullies’ DS2’s lore, the most telling bit is having Drangleic castle ‘omitted’ from the trio at Gael’s arena: It should be right up there with Anor Londo and Lothric castle.
What a couple of delightfully unsatisfying sequels.

gwynevere is an illusion because gwyndolin is the one making it to maintain the presence of the gods in anor londo. I don't think gwyndolin is hanging out in the basement of the cathedral of blue.

>I kind of get the impression DS3 sort of ‘bullies’ DS2’s lore
You know, I like the way II is represented in III, for the most part. One of the things I really like about II is how it's kind of a spin off story not really relevant to the overarching narrative: Drangleic was a literal who kingdom, not nearly as important as Lordran or Lothric. As such, the references as definitely there but few and far between: Alva, Laddersmith Gilligan, Nashandra and the Throne of Want's portrait next to Gwynevere's in Irithyll, weapon and armor description like the Faraam set or the Fume Ultra Greatsword...
What I do agree with, though, is that of all the areas they could've brought back in The Ringed City the chose Earthen fucking Peak. Seriously?

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If anything blame Shibuya, Tanimura was brought in because the original DSII sucked for some reason

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I meant Ornstein in 1. Like, O&S in 1 are illusions and the real ones fucked off somewhere else just like everyone else sans Gwyndolin. Ornstein ending up in Heide (III further builds on this saying how he went away trying to find the Nameless King)

"Sucked" could be very debateable.
Maybe the suits at Bamco didnt like the game and were forced to re-make and meet deadline.
We all know videogames are mostly driven by businessmen that have no idea what they are doing and want max profit, and Bamco is not really any better than EA.

the joke is the dreg heap is a garbage pile, so earthen peak is far and above the most appropriate candidate.

>all the cut DS2 stuff
>the crazy amount of cut DS3 stuff, often providing answers better than any ‘Tubing “””lorist”””
And people are excited for Elden Ring???
I’m anxious as shit about it.

no im not
>Meme writer that made a shit series that normies ate up.
>lazyness and rehash levels of FROM