This is the best PC game of all time, and there's nothing you can say to prove otherwise

HA

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Zoom zoom

No matter what people say about it, Spore was based.

Zoom zoom

It's only fair to compensate Nightdive for all their hard work updating these games.

New game bad, old game good. Boom boom.

Oh hai there.

(To be fair, Deus Ex, SS2 and Thief are my personal holy trinity of games and can't pick one over the other)

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prey 2006 is better than that

Based and immersivesimpilled.

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Damn, this reminds me. At some point I have to try out Stalker...

Pleb taste

THAT IS NOT A FUCKING TRINITY
TRINITY = 3

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there is nothing to prove otherwise, you just made a claim.
the burden of proof falls to you

>it's another trinity with more than 3 episode

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You are not an immersive sim, get out of here, stalker.

if all these old games are so amazing why did the studios shut down and why aren't there more like it being made?

Because the average gamer is even more of a plebeian brainlet than before.

The same reason why Metal Gear Solid is popular.

Never knew bayonetta was on the PC, guess who is getting a cute updoot! TIL! =D

What the fuck kind of label is this? Are the games simulating immersion? Or are they simulators that happen to be immersive? In that case, what are they simulators of?

imagine being this dumb

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but its prequel is better in every way

cope wrpg-kun.

how fucking dumb are you?

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Not even the best system shock my dude

imagine being this dumb

System Shock 2 is pure reddit repellent, retard.

this

its a meme you noobfag were only pretending to be retarded dont you know about that meme god just stick to plebbit zoomer

Stalker, Arx Fatalis and Pathologic for me dawg

I played this game for the first time a few weeks ago and I'm honestly amazed. It's genuinely the tightest, greatest experience I have ever had in a videogame.
I played it in a single sitting of 15 hours, despite trying to take breaks I would close the game and changed my mind 30 seconds late booting it again. This is coming from someone who often feels he has to FORCE himself to finish a game. Most of the time I just look at the icon on the desktop and sigh, but fucking christ ss2 has rekindled the flame of videogames for me.
How the fuck does such an old game that was rushed out with a shit budget delivers so fucking hard. It is relentless, there isn't a single borring moment or downtime, the level design is fucking perfect and the sound design was literally straight up the best I ever encountered in the medium, hands down. Everything was so satisfying, I really doubt I will ever play anything else that can top this.

Based and redpilled.

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Try posting some RTS next time.

imagine being so dumb you do not get the simplest reference

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now you can play SS1 which is better

>cope wrpg-kun.
Don't you have a weebshit game to shill for?

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Finished Prey recently, then decided to play SS2 and Arx Fatalis afterwards. Now just reached Area51 on Deus Ex. Is Invisible War playing or should I jump straight into DX:HR to DX:MD next?
Finished Thief 1 & 2 like three months ago so I'll not play them for a while. I'm quite enjoying this ride.

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Don't forget to play SS1, the enhanced edition is great, played it a few months ago and was surprised at how good that game is.

Invisible War is kinda like Highlander 2. It should not exist.

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There's always System Shock 3. Nothing can go wrong with that.

How can you say that when SS1 exists?

You will love Deus Ex

You've got a whole new world ahead of you, user.

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SS1 is a great game, ahead of its time for 1994 than SS2 was for 1999, but let's not kid ourselves, the sequel is vastly superior on every single way, mechanics, depth, combat, atmosphere, complexity, plot.

search results in nu-Google are fucking shit and their layout changes are nonsensical

Same user. I played it after BioShock back in the early 2010s and was astonished at how solid it was. Glad to hear you're enjoying it. Thief 1 and 2 are both made by the same people are just about on-par with it. Especially in terms of sound design.
Deus Ex is good too for much the same reasons.

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>Is Invisible War playing or should I jump straight into DX:HR to DX:MD next?
IW obsoletes whatever little important player choice the original leaves and plays like absolute ass. Tiny areas, unremarkable plastic mannequin NPCs very poorly pretending to have emotions, generally fewer alternate solutions to problems, visuals somehow even uglier than in original, universal ammo. The list goes on.

What's the Enhanced Edition of SS2 even going to include?

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Here's the actually reasonable version of the Immersive Sims chart that isn't just for getting (you)s

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>group of robots round the corner
>antigrav blade to the ceiling
>drop a time bomb down below and skate away
>rapier the last remaining one
ya no

Any good 2000 - 2005 obscure games for pc?

I played it for the first time recently and it really still holds up
Don't know if I'm excited for 3 though.

>reasonable
>Arx is optional

how do you not understand a HOLY trinity consists of father son holy spirit, as in, GOD?

Dude Sex is honestly my least favorite out of all the greats in this thread.

Dishonored has, and always will be, Thief for the ADD riddled kids who can't into Thief because isss 2 slo!!

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I love both and don't think Thief is slow at all.

hopefully improved multiplayer

more like
>group of robots round the corner
>lean and shoot them while they barely react before dying
the game is really good but the combat is its weakest point (plus that weird ass "soundtrack" when you are in radiation areas and such)

Brainlet spotted.

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I had pretty much the same experience. I had it in my backlog for like 6 months before I even bothered to boot it up and I was blown away. After I finished my Marine playthrough I instantly went for an O.S.A. and I was even more hooked. It's that good.

I liked SS2 but pic related will always be my favorite. Late 90s were fucking crazy

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Absolutely proves my point.
If you say a stealth game is ANYTHING like a fucking over the top action game like Devil May Cry, by default, it has failed as a stealth game.

Whoops, meant to post this.

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The latest fan patch and the popular mods.

Play Invisible War instead of parroting the same shit they heard from an e-celeb like everyone else.

>reasonable version
>Bioshock
Those games aren't even immersion sims.

>System Shock 1
>Optional
Trash.

>BioShock isn't an Immersive Sim
I want this meme to die. It has every bit of the depth in terms of systems as other entries of the "genre" and fits Spector's definition perfectly. The major thing it lacks is inventory management, but so does Thief and no one has trouble counting that.
It's just weaker as an RPG compared to Deus Ex and SS2, but that doesn't disqualify it as an ImSim

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BioShock didn't merely streamline things, it removed most of the gameplay systems of its predecessor.

Character building? Gone. You never have to make choices about what to specialize in. You are competent with any weapon and can hack security systems by default, and you get more than enough ADAM to max every Plasmid/Tonic of relevance, no matter what you do (if you spare little sisters, you get a gift basket with roughly the same amount of ADAM you would have gotten if you had harvested them. A gift basket containing the harvested remains of little girls. You can't make this shit up.)

Exploration? Gone. System Shock 2's level design wasn't particularly non-linear, but it did allow for freeform exploration and tackling objectives out of order, as well as the occasional backtracking to tackle previously unsolveable obstacles. BioShock by contrast is completely on rails, being nothing more than a series of glorified corridors.

Inventory system? Equipment? All gone.

Even the controls are worse. In System Shock 2 you moved at a brisk pace and you could vault over stuff and grab ledges. In BioShock you move like molasses and you can't even jump over a knee-high fence.

Oh, and get this. Bioshock takes place underwater, while System Shock 2 takes place in space. Now which of these games do you think has a gameplay section that has you swimming underwater? That would be System Shock 2, in the Body of the Many. Thats right, Bioshock, which takes place underwater, is such a 'streamlined' game that it has less gameplay related to swimming than a game that takes place in OUTER SPACE.

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the first game is practically unplayable

How do you roleplay in System Shock 2?

go back to fighting the flash

t. gigazoomer

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>Character building? Gone. You never have to make choices about what to specialize in.
You absolutely do. You have to spend ADAM to unlock more slots and have a hard cap of 6 of each type, limiting you either to specialize in one category or assemble an arsenal. Even then they cannot all be equipped at once.
>and you get more than enough ADAM to max every Plasmid/Tonic of relevance, no matter what you do (if you spare little sisters, you get a gift basket with roughly the same amount of ADAM you would have gotten if you had harvested them. A gift basket containing the harvested remains of little girls. You can't make this shit up.)
You are objectively wrong in terms of both the gameplay facts and the lore.
You get 160 ADAM per harvested Sister. After three harvests you have 480.
You get 80 per rescue, and 200 after every 3 rescued, for a total of 440. Less yield overall, and spaced farther apart so you have to go for an extra level or two before the payoff.
Even if you're using the max discounts, it is impossible to get every plasmid/tonic in the game in one run.
ADAM is not Little Sister remains, it's a fluid containing stem cells that the Little Sister's secrete from a sea slug embedded in their stomach lining. Normally they vomit up trace amounts over a long period of time and this is how ADAM is produced normally. Harvesting lets you rip out the slug itself and get a large amount by squeezing it out, but if you save them, Tenenbaum gives you the stuff gained from the passive, peaceful route.
Your claim about the level design is also false. BioShock is nonlinear as well.
I know this is reddit-spacing pasta but you can tell the guy who wrote it has never played the game by the last line. The opening gameplay segment is a swimming section.

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>I want this meme to die.
It's not a meme. What choices does Bioshock give in terms of how the player can complete objectives or bypass environmental obstacles? It's just a fps with exploration-based level design and some light rpg mechanics. Doom 2016 can be described the same way, yet we don't consider it an immersive sim.

I mean, I like Bioshock 1+2, but they don't really give me the same kind of entertainment games like SS2, Thief, or even Prey 2017 offer.

By selecting your character's military history and backstory, as well as developing him over the course of the game through upgrades and equipment.
RPG might be a silly term in the sense that in all games you play a role, but its's understood what it means in the sense of "customizable character with progression"

I played SS1 for the first time this year through the Enhanced Edition and had no problems. The only thing you might need to adjust to is the hud.

>RPG might be a silly term in the sense that in all games you play a role, but its's understood what it means in the sense of "customizable character with progression"
Then maybe it should be called "the equivalent of barbie for boys" instead? Since there is no actual roleplaying? Don't get me wrong, I like SS2 a lot.

How are they so based? Literally never made a bad game.

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THE ABSOLUTE STATE OF THE ZOOM

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>You get 160 ADAM per harvested Sister. After three harvests you have 480.
>You get 80 per rescue, and 200 after every 3 rescued, for a total of 440.
440 vs 480 hardly matters, and you conveniently left out the fact that the gift baskets also sometimes contain plasmids and gene tonics.

>Even if you're using the max discounts, it is impossible to get every plasmid/tonic in the game in one run.
Again, being dishonest. You can get almost everything. Which isn't an issue, since quite a few gene tonics are prettty useless.

>ADAM is not Little Sister remains, it's a fluid containing stem cells that the Little Sister's secrete from a sea slug embedded in their stomach lining.

>the task of harvesting dangerous chemicals is left to 8-year old girls
>we are expected to take this seriously

>The opening gameplay segment is a swimming section.
Not in any meaningful sense. It's basically a corridor in disguise.

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>Your claim about the level design is also false. BioShock is nonlinear as well.
It isn't. System Shock 2 was already more linear than other immersive sims (well, until BioShock came along), and yet, BioShock falls majorly short even of SS2's level design.

Take for example basic level from SS2, the Hydroponics level. Your objective is to fill four environmental regulators with a toxin to wipe out the body mass of the Many, which have clogged up the elevator. The entire level is open from the start and you can activate the four environmental regulators in any order you wish. There is no artificial gating of any kind. The player can stumble upon the regulators even before they find the toxin they have to use on them.

There's nothing in BioShock even remotely like this. Every level in BioShock basically proceeds like this:

>you enter a new part of rapture
>you walk down a linear series of corridors and rooms
>a scripted setpiece occurs, like an NPC contacting you, that opens up another part of the level, which is also a linear series of corridors and rooms
>you walk down them and reach the end
>another scripted setpiece occurs that opens up another part of the level
>rinse and repeat for the entire level

Again, BioShock isn't just linear compared to other immersive sims. It's linear even compared to your average 90's shooter. There is almost no organic exploration.

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>CoP instead of SHoC in Play

Into the trash it goes.

>The major thing it lacks is inventory management, but so does Thief and no one has trouble counting that.
Did you even play Thief? It has very limited ammo, and consumable items that you can store in your inventory for later use. BioShock doesn't even have this (apart from medkits). The game has such a low opinion of the player that even EVE thing is used automatically.

Dishonored 2/Nigger spinoff and Youngblood :)

>Corridors dumbed down and made to be more linear
>Hamfisted french-sounding romance/drama through holotapes
>Low-poly graphics have aged poorly in comparison
The only thing better in SS2 is the UI.

>You absolutely do. You have to spend ADAM to unlock more slots and have a hard cap of 6 of each type, limiting you either to specialize in one category or assemble an arsenal. Even then they cannot all be equipped at once.
This isn't charatcer building you retard, this is basically a glorified loadout system.

In System Shock 2 specializing in PSi was a choice. You had to spend cybernetic modules just to unlock the ability to use a PSi, and again for every tier.

In BioShock every player will largely use the same plasmids. You don't even have a choice, since the first level forces you to pick up elektroshock/telekinesis/incinerate.

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SS2 is a certified zoomer slayer. You can't find a single zoom that likes it.

I'm a zoomer girl and I've finished it so

>What choices does Bioshock give in terms of how the player can complete objectives or bypass environmental obstacles?
Okay, a concrete example then. One of my favorite ways to deal with Big Daddies on Fort Frolic.
4 independent systems
>breaking glass with private property behind it activates a 60-second alarm and summons infinite security bots to the location of the break until the timer ends
>Security Bullseye plasmid overrides machine programming but does no damage to the target, which doesn’t draw their attention
>Natural Camouflage gene tonic gives invisibility as long as you’re standing still and have no organic being with aggro on you
>Camera research gives bonus for multiple targets and the subjects of the photo being in-mid-combat-animation
How I combine those systems
>break a casino window, summoning bots to my location
>hit the BD with a Security Bullseye and stand still
>the bots come to my location, can’t find me because Natural Camouflage kicks in, see the BD instead with Bullseye on
>now for 60 seconds the Big Daddy will fight an infinite hoard of bots, letting me sit by and take pictures, getting max research on it, the Little Sister, and 10+ security bots
>this ends with the BD at less than half health, and all I used was a single plasmid’s worth of Eve
I could have also:
>layed out a hallway full of electric tripwires and baited the Bouncer into charging through them
>put proximity mines on a propane tank and telekinesis’d it at the Big Daddy to do the combined damage of all 6 plus the tank explosion
>lit a bottle of alcohol (which are everywhere in FF) on fire with Incinerate, and use Telekinesis to lob it as a Molotov, then follow up with heat-seeking rockets now that he’s soaked and burning
>load armor-piercing Webley/Thompson ammo, electric buckshot, and electric gel and focused on headshots for quick conventional kill
These are choices.

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you hated it the whole time

wrong it's one of my favorite games

Confirmed for never having played SS2. Just spouting memes you heard contrarian trolls say. Fuck off, retard. Go talk about your zoomer games instead.

>I want this meme to die.
It's not an immersive sim because everything is super scripted, to the point of undermining player agency. Here is an example:

During the plant level (forgot the name), at one point the game tells you to have to hold out a few minutes until a chemical process is completed. So I go hide in a corner and wait for it to be completed. But...nothing happens. Guess what? You're supposed to kill X amount of splicers, who continually spawn in, until the chemical process is completed. Time is literally frozen until you do that. But even that isn't enough. After you kill X amount of splicers, the first phase of the chemical is completed, and you have to kill X amount of splicers before the second phase triggers, rinse and repeat a few times.

Fucking arcade games are more immersive than BioShock.

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doubt it
zooms cannot into SS2

OP here. I agree, Bioshock is basically retro-SS2 underwater. Their similarity is over 80%. If they didn't share the creator, it would be a complete rip-off.

>setting up this elaborate trap to take artful pictures
>of enemies
>which somehow makes you better at killing them
>and this is supposed to be an 'immersive' game

And you wonder why people look down on BioShock?

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>Youngblood
They only handled the level design, which I haven't heard anyone complain about, just the mission design, writing, microtransactions, shitty AI, and the needless "this enemy is weaker to this type of ammo" mechanic.

>It's just weaker as an RPG compared to Deus Ex and SS2, but that doesn't disqualify it as an ImSim
It also somehow has worse shooting than both those games (and unlike those games, shooting is mandatory since 99% of BioShock is spent fighting the same copy-pasted splicers).

playing this right now
comfy as hell

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It's a pathetic difference in adam in the end, like 1 or maybe 2 upgrades. I think they were just scared of making killing kids rewarding and a possible controversy so they just made it a non-choce, something only an extreme edgelord RPer would go for
As for exploration, money, hypos and ammo are every fucking where, and you're told exactly how many little sisters are in a level, so there's literally 1 reason to explore and it's power to the people stations, but those arent even hidden.
Not having an inventory means you can just brainlessly spam the use key at every container until you're full cash, ammo and hypos. Even BSI's 2 weapon limit has more strategy to it

>Any good 2000 - 2005 obscure games for pc?
Thousands.

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Put a second resource truck, it's undersaturated. Also heli resource transports are only good for long distance, unsurprisingly.

>Youngblood
Based retard.

You're simply not correct about BioShock's levels. I honestly doubt you've played it, or you're lying to make your case.
There are only 4 in the game that play out like you suggested - Welcome to Rapture, Smuggler's Hideout, Ryan's Office, and Protector Trials. All of them are short links between the major levels.. Plenty of them can be done in multiple orders. Heck, Medical Pavilion, the very first one has like 6 branching sections and you can accomplish the major objectives in different orders.
I was referring to the SS2 style grid inventory. Yes, Thief has a hidden inventory that you can access through consumables like flash bombs and flares that you can pick up, sure. But if you're going by that standard, then BioShock applies too with the med/eve hypos, crafting components and multiple ammo types.
Neither has a carry weight limit or space limit or anything.
>You had to spend cybernetic modules just to unlock the ability to use a PSi, and again for every tier.
The tier restriction was arbitrary. Buying into T4 with modules just to then spend more modules to unlock a T4 power is not a significant distinction in gameplay depth.
Level 1 of a plasmid costs a certain amount of ADAM, a non-renewable resource, and more of that non-renewable currency has to be spent to upgrade each. Calling it loadouts implies you can respect or refund the renewable resource instead of committing for the rest of the game.

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nah

>is a good game
>but
>3h long
>and ends on a fucking cliffhanger
Also the different outfits were great in that game.

>Developer(s) MachineGames Arkane Studios
:)

Aside from moving the goalposts, did you miss the part where this takes the Big Daddy's health down past half? The research was a free bonus to do in the meantime while I let them fight it out before killing him myself.

Lmao you are easy to spot and trigger.
Keep posting cherrypicked pics.
You sure will make this board to stop liking japanese games.

user
It's a different pic, not the one that shills Xenoturd 2.

Doing that method is the most efficient since the mine gives just enough time to push one container right when the miner comes back.

You can also use add a second mine with 1 miner and they share the same trasport base belt. Try it.

Also beats having to manually use the Ukraine to transfer money.

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Finished it a few weeks ago, the controls do suck dick but you get used to them. Game is fucking amazing though, incredible atmosphere.

>the task of harvesting dangerous chemicals is left to 8-year old girls
>we are expected to take this seriously
So you haven't played it? Got it.

doubt all you want

Yes, most fps give you multiple ways of killing enemies. Hell, Far Cry 5 gives you multiple ways of killing enemies when approaching an outpost, but that doesn't make that game an immersive sim. I specifically noted that there was no choice in how you bypass environmental obstacles or complete objectives. There's no moment where the player can think "hm, what ways could I get through this door or make it to the other side of this room", the focus is just on killing the enemies as they appear. There's no moment where the game shows the player that you don't NEED to collect a plasmid to melt a wall to progress or whatever, because the game is designed too linearly.

Again Bioshock and its sequel are essentially just Doom 2016 except slower and came out a decade beforehand. Decent games, but not immersive sims.

I did, I timed that stuff back in the day. Having only one truck gives you a tiny bit slower income rate. So since you're going to bring units from the home base anyway there's no reason not to saturate your mines.

>a second mine with 1 miner and they share the same trasport base belt
Can work in most cases unless there's something with terrain you miss or a unit's path intersects with a truck's and they start flipping out and driving al around a mine or a refinery/transport base all of a sudden.

summer

Wrong, but I'll give you a second chance.

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I love immersive sims but i just cant get into Arx Fatalis. The engine is just so janky and i hate that magic gimmick. Is the level design at least great?

>You're simply not correct about BioShock's levels. I honestly doubt you've played it, or you're lying to make your case.
>There are only 4 in the game that play out like you suggested - Welcome to Rapture, Smuggler's Hideout, Ryan's Office, and Protector Trials.
You are absolutely deluded.

Take a random level like Neptune's Bounty. The level is literally closed of until you speak to the wharfmaster. Even then, he doesn't even open up the way forward. Instead, he asks you to go to his office, get his camera and take a few pictures of splicers. The way to his office is a completely linear series of corridors. Only when you do that, and backtrack to him, does the way forward open up. And all of this is accompanied by a whole bunch of scripted setpieces at every turn.

Do you see the difference between this and say, System Shock ? Bioshock's exploration is completely on rails, to the point that you have to do a fetch quest before you're even allowed to progress. Every player will go through BioShock's levels in the same way.

There's a reason why BioShock is widely ridiculed by any one remoteley into immersive sims.

>Neither has a carry weight limit or space limit or anything.
Sure, but in Thief special ammo types like gas arrows and moss arrows are extremely limited, forcing you to think carefully onwhen to use them, whereas in BioShock all ammo types are lying all over the place and you get more than enough money to buy whatever ammo you want.

Furthermore, Thief had a variety of consumable items like speed potions, flashbangs, holy water, etc. Which are also limited and have to be rationed out carefully. BioShock only has medkits and eve hypos (which the game doesn't even trust you to use) and you are showered with them.

THief has meaningful rsourcee management, BioShock doesn't.

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And you

>Call of Pripyat over Shadow of Chernobyl

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>Retard spotted
You're welcome, everyone. You can now safely disregard his "opinion".

Did you forgot something? the ultimate sim

>no argument
Why did you even bother.

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How can someone have played a game for 20 hours and yet know absolutely nothing about it? What you described is any game BUT SS2.

wow rekt

>The tier restriction was arbitrary. Buying into T4 with modules just to then spend more modules to unlock a T4 power is not a significant distinction in gameplay depth.
How is it arbitrary? It means you have to actually committ to a Psi build because of the cybermodules needed to unlock a tier. You have to juggle the cost of unlocking psi tiers, separate psi powers with the cost of raising stats, skills, etc.
What's more, the higher difficulty settings in SS2 reduce the amount of cybermodules you get, while raising their cost. This makes your upgrade choices even more relevant, THis aspect of decision making is completely absent from BioShock.

>Level 1 of a plasmid costs a certain amount of ADAM, a non-renewable resource, and more of that non-renewable currency has to be spent to upgrade each. Calling it loadouts implies you can respect or refund the renewable resource instead of committing for the rest of the game.
I'm calling it a loadout system because you get enough ADAM to max out everything, except a few usless Gene Tonics. Why do you keep being in denial about this?

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The ultimate piss sims

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god I still need to play Arx Fatalis

>arguing with a retard
The thread doesn't need two.

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I played SS2 only on hard, but don't you also get less HP with increasing the difficulty?

System Shock 2 is too immersive, the constant tense music makes me think I'm going to be attacked the entire time

>Do you see the difference between this and say, System Shock ? Bioshock's exploration is completely on rails, to the point that you have to do a fetch quest before you're even allowed to progress. Every player will go through BioShock's levels in the same way.
If you actually had played either game, you would have known that progression-wise, both SS2 and BS are identical. "Bad guy posing as good guy tells you to go here and there doing things for him, areas open as you complete your tasks, you are free to roam through already opened areas".

Thanks for the concession, then.

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Your definition of Immersive Sim is wrong. Warren Spector created the term and defined it as any game where the devs make systems that work independently of each other, allowing the players to manipulate those systems to create solutions to the problem that the creators might not have thought of. This is why STALKER is considered one because of things like the roaming animal packs.
And even by your false definition, there are plenty of times you can choose how to bypass environmental obstacles or complete objectives.
Iced over sections can be melted with alcohol, explosives, Incinerate, or Napalm. Fire ammo might work too but I'm not certain.
Traps can be avoided with careful movement, manually triggered by dropping physics objects in their path or yanking bolts out of the wall and repositioning them without setting them off
Because the hacking mini-game deals with the progression of a liquid, you can freeze the machine with liquid nitrogen or Frozen Field first to slow down the progress and make the hack easier. You can also electrify or destroy the turret.
Electrified ground can be bridged across by moving things and platforming across them

Just because there's a handful of parts of the game in the first level that require a certain plasmid doesn't mean the whole game is like that. You're taking a tutorial, something that is meant to guide you, and saying the whole game holds your hand.

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Yeah, you start with 10 hp on impossible.

>I played SS2 only on hard, but don't you also get less HP with increasing the difficulty?
Also correct yes. You get less hp and less psi points the higher the difficulty, and if you raise a stat that would increase hp or psi points, it raises less than it would have on lower difficulties.

Why are you ignoring

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>think I'm going to be attacked the entire time
Think? You ARE attacked all the time, enemies respawn quickly. The point is never allowed the player to catch his breath, keep him tense and on-guard at all times. This is what makes the game's atmosphere.

>More abloo bloo
Disappointing.

>CoP is a must play
>SHoC is optional

>If you actually had played either game, you would have known that progression-wise, both SS2 and BS are identical. "Bad guy posing as good guy tells you to go here and there doing things for him, areas open as you complete your tasks, you are free to roam through already opened areas".
You clearly haven't played SS2 then. SS2 has no live NPCs apart from that one guy at the beginning who is on his deathbed. It's BioShock where you constantly have to talk to NPCs (who are always conveniently barricaded behind bulletproof glass so you can't harm them, or save them when they inevitably get attacked, because god forbid you have actual player agency) before you can access another part of the level.

SS2's gating is unobtrusive, done with things like finding keycards organically as you explore.

Bioshock meanwhile railroads you at every turn with scripted setpieces. It's not remotely the same thing.

All the dicklet zoomers who shit on SS1 should genuinely be castrated. Its the only game in the entire genre that could be considered a masterpiece and its easily one of the best games ever made. It has an overly complicated control scheme because of the machines it was initially intended for but the games difficulty is also balanced around them and they arent some insane hurdle thats impossible to deal with

SS1 has the overall strongest, most coherent, most consistently impressive game design out of the whole fucking subgenre. The hacker wakes up on a "zombified" space station and nobody is whispering orders into your ear right off the bat because the game strives for actual immersion. Everything happens ingame unless youre in the pausescreen and everything requires you to use your own head. Its actual zoomer repellent because the game expects you to explore the station to find out what the fuck is happening (just like the hacker) and piece together what the fuck are you supposed to do to solve the situation from the environment and audiologs left behind. Keep a fucking note on the desk and type down things that seem relevant because they certainly arent given to you in a linear fashion and youll get educated about later objectives from the audiologs in the medical level

SHODAN and just the entire setup is also much stronger in SS1 than anything that followed. The game never shits the bed with subpar levels or complete dogshit like the richenbacher/ the body of the many. Its retardedly innovative and consistent quality. Its like the CRYSIS of its time except that in actual gameplay rather than just graphics. It literally plays better and more complex than modern games of similar genres

>SS2 has no live NPCs apart from that one guy at the beginning
kek

Modern games have spoiled me, I get nervous playing SS2 for any length of time

>Keep a fucking note on the desk and type down things that seem relevant
SS1 lets you write notes on the in-game map.

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sure, but the feature is pretty limited and clunky especially since at least personally im putting down entire sentences, keycodes, pieces of the level specific reactor code etc etc

>kek
None that you interact with.

The Polito form is dead, insect

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On second thought you may actually be right. Using 2 on 1 seems better. Problem now is how to arrange more than one mine without breaking pathfinding or building more transport bases than necessary. Especially on tricky terrain.

Also on Area 51 I discovered this by accident.

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>You're taking a tutorial, something that is meant to guide you, and saying the whole game holds your hand.
But it does. The game even has a compass thing at the top of the screen to tell players where they need to go because there's only a single way of approaching any main objective. Can you turn it off? Sure, but its implementation just demonstrates how linear the game is in terms of general problem solving. All those side features are nice, but the type of mentality that went into their design should have been applied to to how the player could approach major obstacles as well.

>try this
>infinitely spawning enemies
>run out of healing items or bullets
>game becomes unwinnable

>The level is literally closed of until you speak to the wharfmaster.
Again, you are completely wrong. The level is open. Meeting Peach gives you the grenade launcher and introduces Spider Splicers, but you can traverse the level before this.
>The way to his office is a completely linear series of corridors.
They are not. There are plenty of branches and several diverting paths, which you can take several routes to.
>BioShock only has medkits and eve hypos (which the game doesn't even trust you to use) and you are showered with them.
This is the closest thing you came to being correct in your post and even then you're still wrong. It does not auto-use medkits, only begin the eve animation when you run out. But you can use them whenever.
I do agree they are too common.

I'm done arguing with retards, I don't know where these freaks even come from. They know absolutely nothing about games, but feel entitled to make long posts about how they "think" they are, all taken from a fantasy world within their head or whatever, which are all completely wrong and don't even remotely reflect the games they're supposedly talking about.

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Just pause and plan how to place all the mines and then just put a transporter base "docked" to each. In TMP you have a time limit, after all.

Did you build the bridge yourself? Also I barely remember some missions now. I should play it again soon. The saucers are hella cool, that I remember quite well.

>This is the closest thing you came to being correct in your post and even then you're still wrong. It does not auto-use medkits
When I said auto-use, I was specifically referring to EVE hypos. You retard. Why are you deliberately misrepresenting my posts?

>Again, you are completely wrong. The level is open.
It's not open at all. You literally have one room, which is a wide combat arena, followed by a straight path to the wharfmaster. How the fuck is that 'open', you mongoloid.

>They are not. There are plenty of branches and several diverting paths, which you can take several routes to.

Having the occasional side room with some ammo, money and an EVE Hypo is not somee pinnacle of level design, you absolute imbecile. That's the laziest level design possible (apart from a straight corridor).

And you're actually pretending this glorified corridor FPS is on par with fucking Deus Ex, Thief 1/2, Ultima Underworld 1/2 and System Shock 1/2. games with some of the great level design ever made?

How the fuck can you be out of touch with reality that you believe this?

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Again, SS1 is a great game, but it doesn't hold a candle to its sequel. Never could, not when it's only difficulty is getting used to the weird controls and finding what to do next, otherwise the game is very easy, no complicated upgrades to work with and shower the player in ammo and health. There's no cost or consequences for anything, unlike SS2.

>I'm done arguing with retards, I don't know where these freaks even come from. They know absolutely nothing about games, but feel entitled to make long posts about how they "think" they are, all taken from a fantasy world within their head or whatever, which are all completely wrong and don't even remotely reflect the games they're supposedly talking about.

>pretends bioshock has level design and character building on par with ss2
>gets completely btfo with simple factual observations
>you guys are living in a fantasy world!

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>This is the best PC game of all time
>plays the game
>it's fucking shit
every single time

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>How is it arbitrary?
Because the cost could be factored into each PSI power instead of paying once to unlock the tier and again for the power you want. I see what you mean about having to buy in and then juggle that cost. That's reasonable and I concede that point to you. I have never heard higher difficulty settings reduce modules though. I played on Very Hard and felt like I was swimming in them by endgame because I explored a lot.
>I'm calling it a loadout system because you get enough ADAM to max out everything, except a few usless Gene Tonics.
While I see what you mean, a lot of people claim you can buy everything in the game. Then they move the goalposts saying that "it's only the useful stuff" which is disingenuous and then you can claim only the things you can buy are useful.
Here are the hard numbers:
The max ADAM you can get in the game is 3360 by harvesting, or 3080 by rescuing
All the Plasmids/Gene Tonic Slots+Health/Eve boosts are 2640 ADAM combined
That leaves either 720 or 440 ADAM left for Plasmids or Gene Tonics if you got all the passive upgrades to your character.
Prices on Plasmids/GTs vary depending on the Gatherer's Garden Machine, but even taking the cheapest variant of each, assuming you only went to the optimal machine you need another 2225 ADAM to get everything else.
You can check the math yourself if you'd like - bioshock.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Gatherer's_Garden_Prices_in_BioShock
>Why do you keep being in denial about this?
I don't believe their argument is correct. Even with perfect knowledge, you need to make decisions and cannot get everything you want unless you don't want all the slots, all the health/eve, or even a third of the Plasmid/Gene tonics

SS2 is easier than the first one unless you purposefully gimp yourself with an illogically shit build on a blind run. SS2 also progressively shits the bed more and more and its levels arent as good as anything from SS1 even at their peak. The majority of the enemies in SS2 are also inferior in design if not gameplay to SS1 because of how oddly retarded and boring the more advanced enemies from the many are. Cyborg midwife and a basic hybrid is practically the only famous enemy from the game and for a good reason. All of the full blown machine enemies are also completely uninspired and the only excusable one (which is one out of two) is the protocol droid

You can easily curbstomp all challenge in SS2 with zero thinking involved by simply leveling up hacking and standard weapons. By the end of the game youre throwing cyber modules into shit you thought youd never need and youre just zipping around the level with monster agility and whatnot. PSI is even more broken if you have any clue about the game

Should I play the original SS1 or its enhanced edition?

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>simple factual observations
Simple factual observations about how Bioshock is in your fantasy world, that is. It has zero similarities with the real Bioshock.

>enhanced edition?
This one, or wait for the remake.

>I have never heard higher difficulty settings reduce modules though.
Higher difficulties greatly increase the cybermodule cost of every upgrade, which is effectively the same thing as reducing cybermodules.

go kill yourself zoomer

The fuck are you on about retard?

You can curbstomp all challenge in SS1 but simply playing normally. Choices? Nah, you're already a winner, just keep playin' :).

Aside from the controls, SS1 is zoomer-tier, they're remaking it instead of SS2 for a reason.

I tried to dock one transport base to each mine but trapped a miner as a result. I'll stick to 1 miner each for now with multiple mines.

The bridge, yes. Find the lowest point from the your side and open up 1 tile every time it turns green then let the gruz level up the terrain (it turns blue) at the end of the bridge. If it's too high it will keep building bridges.

Webm is sped up but I play normally at 60fps with default speed.

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>You literally have one room, which is a wide combat arena, followed by a straight path to the wharfmaster. How the fuck is that 'open', you mongoloid.
Dude, you can go all the way up to Sullivan's office. The whole level is not gated behind Peach. You clearly just followed the minimum route when you played it and assumed you were restricted to that. If you don't know the game you're talking critically about then I'm not going to further respond with your factually wrong claims.

>Why are you ignoring
For one, that has nothing to do with it being an Immersive Sim. They can be scripted. It's all about the systems and how the player interacts with them.
Yes, I agree that it's silly that it's not time-based. It was likely to prevent exploits with Natural Camouflage. They're cherrypicking a design decision, saying the whole game is like that (when there are other similar examples that are not like that, like draining the magma on Hephaestus, the Protector Trials, or the Peach battle), and then reaching a wrong conclusion that it doesn't qualify as an ImSim.

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>You can curbstomp all challenge in SS1 but simply playing normally.
as opposed to fucking what autist?

>Choices? Nah, you're already a winner, just keep playin' :).
SS2 is infinitely more popular because the vast majority of mouthbreathers ask questions like "should I even play SS1 haha it looks scary because its old" and then they go in with retard advice like playing with the equivalent of the new 2D controls in hd REmake but still getting plebfiltered by the first few rooms of medical so the game sits forever in their library with 3 hours and zero progress clocked in. The only "challenge" you can have in SS2 is by making intentionally retarded non choices like foregoing all logic and developing a build that sounds and is retarded. Unlike SS1 the game shits the bed two thirds in and wasnt as strong as the first one in the first place

Why are you quoting me retard?

Are you illiterate? Typical muh just play da remake child spotted. Go back to telling everyone how youre a big resident evil 2 fan even though youve literally never touched the original game

do some research dumb ass

>retard can't even read
Yikes

>HEEEEEEEE haaww new game good because its on da ex bawks 360

thats all im seeing from your posts, go back to memeddit if you want to hear sheep mouthbreathing over how epic and deep bioshit was

You just spouting "old good, new bad" contrarian retardation, and think that SS1 is your little special obscure game that only you played, and because of that, you're somehow "special" and "superior" for preferring it.
Bad news for you, retard, you're only "special" as in "special needs", and LOTS of people played SS1, in fact it was saleswise more successful than its sequel.
You would absolutely HATE a modern game that played like SS1, and call it "casual shit", "pretentious", among other buzzwords.

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I hope Night Dive realises that anyone who is even remotely interested can already play SS2
Remake shit things, leave great things alone

Enhanced is easier to get into if you've played SS2. The mouse toggle is kinda like switching between use and shoot mode. They force Mac assets which I dislike but eh
Classic ss1 controls way different, its kinda like tank controls but more clunky. Not as terrible as some make it out to be, the game is pretty balanced around it with enemies moving slow so you can always run, hide and shoot from a corner and an implant that is basically eyes on your back so you can see what's going on

>You just spouting "old good, new bad"
they are both equally old you fucking autistic child and ive never even said SS2 is bad, ive said SS1 is better

>and think that SS1 is your little special obscure game that only you played
bloodborne is in my top 2 games of all time and thats a brand new popular game, looking at your pathetic projecting because you think youre hardcore for liking SS2 when in reality youre being plebfiltered by the original actual plebfilter shock game is hilarious though especially when I again never even said which game I like better, simply which one is objectively better. My actual favorite game of all time is kotor 2 and that is objectively infinitely more unfinished and broken shit than even the last third of SS2 for the entirety of the game

>and LOTS of people played SS1, in fact it was saleswise more successful than its sequel.
deservedly, SS2 didnt innovate nearly as much and not everything it streamlined/ changed improved the game at all outside of the core movement/ aiming controls

>You would absolutely HATE a modern game that played like SS1
it plays better than anything coming out today, the game design doc im whipping up in my spare time is equally inspired by SS1 and 2 because of how much better SS1 does everything else except the simulation aspect

have it on my steam acc for several years, now that a remaster has been announced I'm gonna check it out

That can happen so it's important to conserve your resources. Learn to use the wrench.

First two bioshock games are fine

Port to Kex engine, better support for modern hardware, improved modding support.

>thats all im seeing from your posts
Sorry to hear about your reading comprehension impediment, user. That explains your grammar too.

>muh gwammah
thanks for the epic tip redditor, im an actual novelist and I save all the actual effort for that so when I wind down by shitting on retards on da chans I couldnt give a lesser fuck about le gwammah on posts laughing at dicklets in threads that will be forever gone in a matter of hours

>open up game
>menu hum resonates through your skull

sound design is absolute kino from the start desu

not even the best system shock kiddo

I used to be obsessed with Bioshock 1 and 2. Sometime before Infinite released, I just stopped caring about the series. A few years ago I tried to play SS2 but it just couldn't hold my attention and I haven't touched the save since. I really wish I had the chance to play games like this and Deus Ex back then, I would have loved them.

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>back then
I played these games well after release and loved them
Except System Shock, it has it's ups and downs.