Rest In Peace wobbling it’s finally gone

Rest In Peace wobbling it’s finally gone
Press S to spit on grave

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Other urls found in this thread:

ssbwiki.com/wobbling
youtube.com/watch?v=h_jhVJYites
nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17304412
youtu.be/1Sfs9h3bIDg
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

S
What the hell took so long?

RIP ChuDat

Icies weren't even S tier

smashfags showing once again how pathetic they are. banning anything that isn't "fox, no items, final destination" still doesn't make smash anything more than a casual party game for kids.

ICs don't win anything anyway, is this just for people to not ragequit in pools so melee doesn't die?

>press S to spit on grave
The S key is for moving. IT CANNOT BE TO SPIT.

God forbid anything but Fox be good

melee is dead

"You can only abuse the glitches and exploits WE say you can, not THOSE glitches and exploits!"

"Competitive" Smash is a farce.

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No more wibbly wobbly community.

S
Let that be the end of wobbling apologists

t. retards that dont understand why smash is the only viable fighting game in esports. its because its fun to watch for a lot of people. puff is going to happen next

So, what does this mean for Icies? Are they shit without wobbling?

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We did it reddit

Melee won't die solely because of it's hardcore fanbase. Also as long as Ultimate is still popular Melee will benefit a lot as well since most people will watch both games and Leffen is by far the most popular smasher atm and he plays both.

yo what the fuck is wobbling

>it's not fox, ban it
>items take no skill, that's why I can't dodge them
>you can only abuse the glitches we say you can
Why are smelleefags so shit?

>smash
>fighting game
choose one.

if you get grabbed by the ice climbers they can infinite you for 30 seconds then kill you
it's very boring

here we go again

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a series of grabs that can go on infinitely if timed right

Cope. Melee is dead, not that it has been alive for 10+ years anyway

>that isn't fox so it needs to be banned
Literally mental retardation

Sure, I'll cope with my 70k viewers. Sounds good to me.

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My theory is that it's actually to prevent a gamer shooting from somebody getting infinite grabbed to 999%

If the problem was "its really boring" then just make a rule that a player can agree before the match to suicide if they get grabbed by IC.

"Wobbling is really boring" was always an excuse. They will try to ban Puff next. If it's not Fox, its getting banned.

can this only be done on melee?

I like how you wankers are going to say it's viable while at the same time fucking it up for yourselves. Soon the roster won't matter at all and you faggots will be playing the same handful of characters for all eternity.

it's the truth. in a real fighting game, wobbling and jigglypuff wouldn't be banned, shitters would be told to git gud. people crying for nerfs on joker and hero would be ridiculed.
smash is a casual party game that smelly manchildren play because they can't into real competitive games.

No wonder the top Meleefags want to ban Hero. Because they fucking ban anything that beats them and reminds them that Smash is not a fucking fighting game.

If someone was able to start making top 8 in tournaments with Ness using the yo-yo trick, would he be banned from competitive play?

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Brawl also has infinites

I would gladly take more Pikas and Yoshis over puff honeslty

Melee is the mechanically and strategically the hardest game that is still played competitively.

>he thinks 70k is a big number
user I....

that's a very slippery slope

Yeah, and no. Brawl still has an infinite for the ICs. It's just slightly harder to perform. Ultimate outright destroys the technique by having the CPU IC just stand in place during grabs and by giving characters immunity to being chain grabbed at all.

Brawl has death chaingrabs with IC's and Ultimate has some simlar shenanigans with IC's as well, but it's really hard.
I don't care, I was saying here we go again because this is inevitably going to turn into another circlejerk thread about how much you guys hate Melee.

Yes. Anything that isn't Fox needs to be banned.

They’re gonna be better without it, one of my main practice partners spanked fiction and silentwolf without wobbling they’ll be fine

Brawl has a different infinite ICs Chaingrab

>ban wobbling because it’s boring
>will ban Puff because it’s boring
>won’t ban Fox despite it being the epitome of boring
When you start to look at the game from a top-down perspective, you start to really see the flimsy staples holding the game’s scene together.

It's not even still played competitively on any scale that matters. If it was, you'd still be wrong.

No, those are neat to watch. Wobbling is just 'well, time to watch nothing happen for the next 120%'

>people crying for nerfs on joker and hero would be ridiculed.
people ask for nerfs in literally every fighting game, dumbass.

Not at all it isn’t anywhere near broken, especially in comparison to wobbling

Banning shit you don't like is the ultimate slippery slope.

"Wobbling is boring so it needs to be banned" was always bullshit because that could easily be fixed by letting players take a suicide option.

then why aren't smeleefags playing real fighting games and dominating in them if they're so much easier than their fox vs. jigglypuff simulator?

If it was a consistent, abusable thing, yeah definitely. But it isn't, and Ness is hot doodoo without it, one of the worst in the game. This guy attempted to that same trick several times and died for it

What arbitrary metric are you using to claim it's not?

>smashfags showing once again how pathetic they are
once again, it's a continuous thing

>"its fun to watch"
>community spends almost 2 years screaming about jiggs because she isn't "true melee"
lmao

Why did no one ever give Melee SD Remix a shot? It does't even make any changes to the top 8.

Then allow players the option to suicide once grabbed. Problem solved and you don't need to ban it.

it's banned because it makes bad players automatically decent and has no interactivity

it being boring is just extra u fucking mong u would know this if u actually played the game

Thank you for admitting that you literally don't play fighting games. Smeleecuck.

Smash is popular in esports for the same reason MOBAs are popular.
It's braindead and easy for the retarded masses to understand.

oh hey, i had no idea i was on aol

Because they're completely different games. By your logic anyone good at a difficult instrument would instantly be good at something simple like piano.

The glitches/exploits that get banned are the ones that literally make the other person stop playing the game. Peach stall, run-arounds, Wobbling all make inputs performed by your opponent completely irrelevant to the match. That is not a competition, that is a skillcheck on your APM

This is why Ultimate will always be better than SMelee

>its banned because bad players can use it effectively
What a retarded reason to ban anything from a game. This is why meleetards are a joke.

shouldn't you be harassing some underrages

You only say this because pika and yoshi lose to fox.

>it has no interactivity
It doesn't happen automatically, you have to get grabbed first. And even then, IC weren't even close to top tier.

Its just banning things you don't like that weren't even overpowered.

Uhuh, thats why peopled cried about nerfs for Nash in SFV, Bardock in FighterZ?

Based showerbros
Yikes I can smell you from here meleenigger

>Because they're completely different games.
then why do smashfags keep riding the coattails of the fgc's events and begging for recognition as a fighting game?

>it's fun to watch the same 8 people in top 8 use the exact same characters every time against each other!

Smelees are fucking braindead lmao.

shudnt u b taking 2 teenz on da aol chatz

Nintendo wouldnt sponsor it, same deal with PM

Except the best musicians are at least decent at piano, even if they specialize in other instruments, that's why most composers prior to the invention of the radio were pianists.

>then why do smashfags keep riding the coattails of the fgc's events and begging for recognition as a fighting game?
They don't.

>Ness is hot doodoo without it, one of the worst in the game.
He's only better than, what, mewtwo and icies without wobble?

It's a platform fighter/party game

Who the fuck doesnt?
At the top level its more about Player skill than it is matchups.
I mean, Fox is Puffs worst matchup and HBox makes it look even against the very best foxes in the world. Aside from Leffen.

>character barely ever cracks the top 8 anymore
>WAAAAAAAAAH AXE LOST WAAAAAAAAAAAH MANGO LOST WAAAAAAAAAAAH GET RID OF IT NOWWWWWWWWWW I NEED MY HYPE PLAYERS TO KEEP MY DEAD GAME AROUND
Typical

>banned because it makes bad players automatically decent
why dont they ban up air on fox or grab on marth then?

Combos need to be banned. They aren't interactive.

>never win a major
>get your dominate strategy banned because it makes people asshurt

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>At the top level its more about Player skill than it is matchups.
which is why 17 of the top 20 players are space animal mains, yes

>getting hit in the first place

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then why do they keep showing up at evo next to actual fighting games?

when u compare a grab that instantly kills ur opponent to up air

u do know its literally impossible to go 0-2 with ice climbers because of wobbling

there's plenty of marths who know how to press the grab button and are still terrible and will never win a game in a set

There is literally no reason to ban wobbling. Hbox still beats people who try to wobble him which means the other pro players just have to get good.

Wobbling is almost always banned at Juggleguy tournaments you fucking newfag outrage culture tard

And why Axe,AmSa and HBox could beat any of them on a good day despite Pika, Puff Yoshi being fucking ass compared to the infinite potential of Fox and Falco only held back by physical limitations of the human hand

Tf I literally came up with axe wizzy s2j and Swedish delight in 5 seconds where are you getting this info

fox up air kills about half the roster. you'd understand this if you actually practiced matchups other than the space mirror

>Chu Dat now has to try again

I don't think Melee is ready for the second coming of 100% Chu

Yoshi is theoretically the best character in the game, not spacies

oh yea i forgot when foxes up aired every character from any part of the stage to death at 15% with a 99% success rate

Yeah, the three best not-spaceanimals are the only people who can can beat the 17th best spaceanimal on a good day, because its about player skill and not the matchup

No, I think Shine is the most busted move in Fight game history with all of the shit it can do

Money. Like it or not, Melee and Ultimate bring in a shitload of money, Ultimate from Nintendo ad space and entrant numbers, and Melee from the sheer depth of autism from hundreds of thousands of Twitch stream monsters following the incestuous cabal of E-celebs still playing the game.

>u
Is it that hard to just two more letters?

You clearly haven't seen what TAS Yoshi is capable of

>to the infinite potential of Fox and Falco only held back by physical limitations of the human hand

Imagine fucking believing this. How are you closet furries so fucking delusional?

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HBox is #1 in the world and Axe #4

Unless you're on a map like temple with solid ceilings, fox can up air into up air combo any heavy or large hitbox at any point on the map, yes.

What's the point in a competitive game if you're going to cut it down to the same shitty 3 matches over and over again?

Yeah this is a joke, melee is done at this point it's just desperately trying to maintain a twitch following instead of maintaining any competitive integrity.

does this mean stocks will go down from 4 finally?

Doesn’t work on bowser :)

>Playing the game in the first place

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nice

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>HBox is #1 in the world
Hasn't he been losing a lot recently though? His biggest victory as of late was running away with the side event of Melee EVO 2019 because hardly anyone else worth a damn showed up. Leffen couldn't even get his passport info right to fly to America in time for either Smash tournament.

If a character in ultimate had a grab that meant instant death, wouldn't that character be banned too? I know there's plenty of things to mock about melee's competitive scene, but this seems like a thing that should have been banned from the get-go.

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The Big House is just one tournament out of many though. The most recent major, SSC, did not ban it. It depends entirely on the TO.

Seems like he already is lol

Many sports ban unsportsmanlike practices to make it more enjoyable to the public. Because if there is no public interested, it does not move money.
Wobbling is not something that people watching want to see. If non-bathing autists don't want to adapt, they can go back to playing in the dick-smelling attic and stop pretending to do "professional" events.

Axe is so astronomically better than just about every ranked space animal player that if they selected random toon on a random map he would win 80% of the matches against everyone except armada, mango on a good day, and maybe leffen. HBox is #1 because he mastered the space animal matchup, not because he's good.

see now i know ur just making shit up lmfao

literally no one with fox gets up air strings from 15% to death literally every time they hit an up air with a 99% success rate

btw u know u can escape up air with di right why dont u just start getting out of every wobble now too :D

What exactly is boring about Fox besides his high usage?

He's really fun to play and scales with the player more than any other character.

>DUDE FOX
Does anyone on Yea Forums actually play/watch melee because the top 12 have a health representation in the meta.

Stay mad anti-melee fags

What's wobbling?

He lost to Leffen on Sunday but that's it. He had literally been on a winning streak for months.

they should do a smash tournament with all items and stages enabled with a cash payout just to show people why you don't have smash tournaments with all items and stages enabled

Lel u r a f4g git pwned y the fuk do u txt liek a teen grl frm 2006

Why do people who hate melee continuously spew the same rhetoric which a cursory glance at any information proves it wrong?

Why must exploits be some all-or-nothing affair?
And more importantly, how could all of them be accurately defined when any arbitrary number of unintended mechanics may or may not qualify?
And most importantly, what is to be gained by house rules blindly binding themselves to broad-strokes measures such as "absolutely no exploits". rather than be enacted on a more particular basis that tailors the game to a desired spirit?

The one infinite combo in a game where no characters have an infinite combo

Mad?

de-synching the ice climbers allows you to create a grabchain where the enemy is permanently either grabbed, stunned from the grab release, stunned from the impact of a standing A from the desynched icie, and then grabbed again. infinite damage%, and then throw to kill.

>HBox is #1 because he mastered the space animal matchup, not because he's good

Keep telling yourself that, furry.

>hundreds of thousands
>top events don't even cracking 80k
How much cope can one man muster?

ssbwiki.com/wobbling

rofl no jst wndrng y u t4lk lk a 9u33r

You're fuming.

Why don't Ice Climber mains put in the effort to learn hand offs?
They're just as effective as wobbling.

>scales with the player more than any other character.
every high level fox plays the exact same except for personal traits of how often and how hard they choose to go in. everyone uses the same four attack chains, the same simple decision web of follow ups, and the same A-B recovery style.

>u
>ur
Wow, it's like I'm really back in 2008. How's that recession going back home there timetraveler user?

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>strategically
No, not even close

>the exact same except for what's different
Wow fucking insightful there.

In a game all about movement and positioning, how they choose to approach and their general style is very important. Also Mang0, Leffen, and Armada clearly have different Fox playstyles.

Hand offs only are 100% consistent in a corner/platform edge since nana will always forward throw in that spot, but yeah I’m excited to see non brain dead play from ics players now

>furry
my argument is that spacies should be banned, not fucked. its a hard fact that hbox is only 'good' because he doesnt let spacies practice on him enough to let them get matchup knowledge into puff, and even now his lead is slipping because spaceanimal is an unstoppable force

this x1000

melee players truly don't like smash. they just like fox, falco (which is almost fox), and wavedashing. pure autism.

>melee
>non-braindead
Pick 1

how is wobbling unsportsmanlike? it's not like ice climbers are winning every tournament.
a bunch of fox/falco mains banning wobbling is like the yankees banning the rays from the al east because they're "too good."

you won't see ic's at all as they'll switch to puff for more optimal play

>Mang0, Leffen, and Armada clearly have different Fox playstyles
only in the neutral. once you actually start trading hits all fox mains are just a fox main.

There's some other ones that can be done form centre stage.

And what about it? Floaties are aids and Melee is sick
-Luigi main

So when are we banning wavedashing?
It's an exploit that's not even supposed to be in the game but smelleefags will defend it

Both.

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>Melee is sick

You don't actually believe that if you think most of the roster is boring.

Dog sakurai knew about wavedasging wjen making melee and has said so in numerous interviews shut the fuck up

You fags have been claiming it's an exploit for years. Maybe try a new tune.

Ultimate at evo surpassed all previous records on everything.
It seems you're the one coping. Why does nintendo trigger you so much?

this. my main character's wavedash is not as good as good others so we clearly have to step up and even out the playing field.

Didn't it still lose to when SFV was shown on ESPN?

>every fox plays the same except for the fact that they don't play the same

This is your mind on nu-smash

We got the better version of SC2 and SEGAfags are still buttflustered

>People used to think marth was cool
>An actual consistent good marth main zain comes along and everyone hates marth now
This mentality plagues all smash games but it's especially ironic in melee

If you're on the ground as peach you should only be downsmashing or currently dash attacking.

literally this

Robin here is a cuck.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point huh? Ultimate is a godsend to SSB, I never claimed otherwise. I did however point out the melee isnt nearly as popular as people like to pretend it is. Again, cope

Or spamming the turnip RNG button

Except this literally never happened.

>Ultimate at evo surpassed all previous records on everything

Stop lying. It had the most views overall but DBFZ in 2018 still has the most views on one stream of all fighting games, smashcuck.

Nah, it's more optimal to moonwalk ledge cancel the turnip pulls. So you're barely on the ground as you do it.

Can you imagine a Smash without F(ox)alco?

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I guess SF2T isn’t a fighting game since there are banned characters in the competitive scene.
Or as a matter of the fact, most fighting games are not fighting games since most of them still ban stages for some attacks blending in more.

leffen is a fag that got maf he is shit at Ultimate

No you see those don't count as they ruin my narrative.

ICs are Garbo and no one played them at the top level because unless you can land wobbles you will never win.
All the good players retired though so ICs became viable.

user you're.... retarded

way worse
>fox and falco combo the shit out of everybody
>everybody combos the shit out of fox and falco
they make the game more exciting

What about people like Fly who don't wobble?

poop goes in the toilet

Good, but
>melee

Will it be dead by the time the second decade of the 21st century rolls around?

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>wobbling is good and should stay in
youtube.com/watch?v=h_jhVJYites
@5:53 summarizes wobbling quite well

They're deeply saturated in competitive and overall safe picks. If they didn't exist it'd free up room for people to play less cheesy characters.

Lmao it hasn’t been banned since big house 5 calm down I’m not a newfag

Actually I just used that word as an example. In real sports, it is common for some things to be banned for the sole purpose of making the sport more enjoyable for spectators.
In the case of games, what is the problem with banning certain things to make it more enjoyable and to make people feel it more like a fair competition?

RIP Chudat

someone please spoonfeed me what this is, i don't care enough to actually look it up

Melee is already an irrelevant game so who gives a fuck move on to Ultimate already you idiots.

Can you imagine if all the SF5 players were still being stupid and playing SF2 in 2019.

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Imagine calling spacies a safe pick and cheesy character

how does banning everything that isn't fox mke smelee more enjoyable?

>Can you imagine if all the SF5 players were still being stupid and playing SF2 in 2019.
Turbo is good though, try using 3S next time.

Here you go user :) ssbwiki.com/wobbling

If the ice climbers grab you in melee you're stuck waiting till they decide you've had enough and kill you. There is no escape or counterplay other than not getting grabbed.

Low tier characters would not be made better by the spacies exclusion. If Fox and Falco were gone, everyone would be going with Marth, Sheik, or Jigglypuff because they all do a better job of invalidating mid and low-tier characters then Fox and Falco do.

had a feeling it was something like this, I've seen a video of it before. Sounds like a good thing to ban.

3S, Super Turbo >>>> SFV
Too bad SF players leave the old, better game for the new and shiny garbage.

S
Fuck you, Claire, you tranny fuck. Get blasted

Based

>banning tech when the game is dead

Ok?

Nearly all mid to low tier is invalidated by sheik alone.
Removing fox and Falco fixes none of that.

Theoretically, Fox can 1 frame shine forever, so that makes TAS Yoshi the second best character in the game.

Are you talking from the players' point of view?
I'm thinking about spectators, which I assume is the concern of the guys making the championship rules. It is undeniable that viewers see things like "infinite combo" as unfair. This causes them to lose interest and the championships have less audience.
Like I said, if the guys don't want to adapt, they can just keep playing Smash as a hobby in their basement.

The fact we live in reality where that isn't what's happening.

Who?

but it is. they've now banned wobbling, jigglypuff will be next, and then it's just going to be fox vs. falco forever.

>wobbling is banned but chaingrabbing is perfectly fine
>Jigglypuff's ledgestall is "broken" but Sheik/Fox stalling with up-b is perfectly fine
this game is a meme

It's like you never watched that game where Westballz went DK against M2K's Sheik. I swear people just spout shit they hear from other people.

Planking will be banned. Jigglypuff won't

>thing beats me and stops me from being best
>ban it
>HAHA SEE HERE UNDER ALL THESE RULES CONDITIONS AND FACTORS I AM THE REIGNING CHAMPION
dude just shift goalposts lmao
competitive gaming is still a joke

thats cool and all but when was the last time you guys took a shower

>Competitive SF community bans Akuma and Gill
>No one cares
>Competitive Tekken community band Mokujin as well as customized costume characters and Combot
>No one cares
>Competitive DoA bans Tengu and using Hayate’s cartwheel (which is specifically a move) is illegal too
>No one cares
>Competitive SoulCalibur bans the console exclusive characters, as well as Necrid, Sophitia, Seong, Assassin, Berserker, and Lizardman
>No one cares
>Competitive BB bans Kokonoe
>No one cares
>Competitive Capcom vs SNK 2 bans Evil Ryu, Orochi Iori, Shin Akuma, and God Rugal
>No one cares
>Competitive Pokemon/Smash bans all the broken shit
>”REEEEEEEEEEE! I DON’T EVEN PLAY THESE GAMES BUT I’M MAD THAT THESE PEOPLE WANT TO PLAY THE GAME IN WAYS THEY WANT TO PLAY AND ULTIMATELY DOESN’T AFFECT ME! YOU ONLY WANT IT BANNED BECAUSE YOU CAN’T HANDLE IT, AND I WON’T PROVE THESE TACTICS/MECHANICS/CHARACTERS ARE NOT BROKEN BY BEATING TOP PLAYERS IN BOTH RESTRICTED AND UNRESTRICTED PLAY! I WILL ALSO IGNORE THE FACT THAT I CAN INFLUENCE THESE DECISIONS BUT WON’T BECAUSE I DON’T ACTUALLY PLAY AND JUST WANT TO REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!”

Yeah man the movement glitch that opens the game up more is gay as hell, but the glitch that keeps people from moving for a stock is totally fine.

So then even your hypothetical it won't only just be fox? Since Falco is still in.
Be consistent retard.

>Pokemon
Nobody even gives a shit about competitive Pokemon.

who cares

Sports do the same shit.

aren't items RNG? i guess it could allow for a secondary "skill" of being able to quickly utilize an item that spawns somewhere on screen before the opponent can, but it can also very easily provide one character an immediate advantage just by a dice roll. i can see why those are banned.

take a shower, you reek.

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You made my point for me by saying that as you've had to cherrypick a specific example of someone using DK against thousands of instances where they played it safe with S tier furry man.

At this point its obvious that people who hate melee just look for any reason to. Even if it's complete disinformation.

Marvel 2
Marvel 3

>Real fighting games ban things that would destroy game balance
>Smashfags ban things because they're "boring for the spectators to watch"

unga bunga fox falco marth sheik only

do you honestly believe wobbling is on the same level of akuma/gill
really

Zain wishes he had the efficiency that M2K had.

Feels bad for the people who have dedicated years to the characters to suddenly have their main basically be banned out of the blue after 15 years.

/thread.

Ultimate is the closest the franchise has ever been to actually be comp viable and even then the release of Hero has been really pushing it (Not that he's OP or broken per say but a chartcer built purely around RNG is antithetical to a well made comp game).

It's fine when my team does it!

You're retarded dude. Don't even reply to me if you don't understand why real fighting games ban characters. Nobody wants to see a top 32 that's literally made up of nobody but Gill. Meanwhile how many competitive Ice Climbers players are there? Like 1 and he doesn't even win tournaments.

Fucking idiot.

Absolutely yes.

You're retarded. You claimed if Fox/Falco were gone everybody would use low/mid tiers. If they were gone, you would just see less variety with spacies gone and the rest of the top 8 being present. The problem with melee is that the mid/low tiers are terrible compared higher tiers.

>real fighting games ban one or two characters if they're REALLY broken
>smashfags ban 90% of the content in their game and pretend it's the same thing

Because the game doesn't WORK on certain stages you retarded scrub
There are braindead easy, degenerate strategies that work on certain stages because Sakurai designed the game for competitive AND casual audiences.
He knew skilled players would just avoid these stages, but casual players wouldn't mind because they wouldn't find them
That's why they put all this fucking work in to let players define the rules and remove stages from random select

>Durrrr how is Basketball more fun when we ban "getting a point lead then holding the ball until the game ends?"
>Dats not what the original inventors of Basketball intended!

Puyo Puyo 2 was the first competitive game to ever be taken seriously in Japan. It came about before Smash Bros 64. In that game there are 5 stages to choose from AND ALL COMPETITIVE PLAY IS DONE ON -ONE- OF THOSE STAGES. Akuma was selectable but banned from competitive play in Super Turbo.
There was STRONG precedent for designing a competitive game this way.

why do they WHINE about not being a MAIN STAGE at evo, is a better question
>those bitches on twitter bitching about samurai shodown still
l
fucking
mao

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THEN YOUR GAME IS NOT COMPETITIVE AND SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO BE COMPETITIVE WITH ACTIONS, GAMEPLAY AND CHARACTERS BANNED

It's on the level of any instant kill glitch though.

Ice Climbers have been dominating competitive Melee for too long! Glad to see they're finally taking action against them.

It's fine because I agree with it!

Leffen is playing both because he knows Melee is on its final legs. It's exclusion from Evo was a big hint.

Hey, buddy, competitive Brood War only uses 10% of the maps
That's just a thing that fucking happens sometimes

if you don't want fox to be good just ban jigglypuff so you don't have to play him just to deal with her

Here's the problem, the interactivity is that you shouldn't get hit because you know its an option that you will be wobbled to death. Fighting games have infinites and players know the other guy can perform an infinite on you if you get clipped and you literally just have to watch your character get juggled and hope the other guy makes a mistake he won't make. Infinites aren't banned they are accepted

If the game needed to be broken to be fun competitively, maybe the game shouldn't be competitive from the start.

The irony in all of this is Melee prides itself for fast paced game-play, yet the best character in the game is Jigglypuff, a character whose play style is slow and antithetical to everything Meleefags claim the game is.

Smash was never a game that ever valued or cared about 1v1 comp focus. You see this in almost all their games. Ultimate is the closest the game has been where I look at the comp community and think "Oh hey, this might actually work and not be retarded".

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Competetive CS is only played on like 7 maps using only a single game mode.

>Then your game is not competitive, despite hosting dozens of tournaments a year with huge following.
What does that word even mean anymore, you homo.

I never said people would use low tiers, as they're patently not viable. The implication is that the mids, which are more spread out in their power distribution, would see greater presence overall and in turn with the spacies out of the picture there wouldn't be as many people jumping on largely foolproof S tier chars and instead verging more into high/mid tier.

Will you ban me next smeleefaggots?

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ultimate peaked higher than all the other games in viewer count and i think entries.

I've watch clips of people wobbling and its very clear it hurts the competitive integrity of the game. I haven't even played it for years and have no emotional investment what-so ever, but reading this thread defending it makes me think Yea Forums is retarded.

You guys are a joke if you seriously think banning was a bad thing.

>best character in the game
>jigglypuff

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DUDE
IF NOT EVERY FEATURE OF THE GAME IS USED
IT'S NOT COMPETITIVE LOL
Nothing is inherently competitive. Rules exist for everything.

Mid tiers get completely destroyed by Sheik.

Melee has become a fucking WWE stage play, its not even a fucking video game anymore thanks to the autism of the scene. They don't care about a true competitive game or they don't actually care about playing Melee as the game presents itself to the players. They care about making their game look "so epic and cool and sick! look at this awesome tech movement bros!!!" more than they care about playing an actual fighting game and watching people try and win.

hey man if you have been in wow threads 15k is a fucking massive number

does anyone actually play melee here? nobody has anything more than basic knowledge on it

That argument is retarded.
People used to box with their bare fists back in the day.

Just because more and more safety rules and tools were added doesn't mean the sport isn't competitive anymore.
You can make a competition out of anything, too.

>If the game needed to be broken to be fun competitively, maybe the game shouldn't be competitive from the start.
All the best fighting games are busted to hell. Melee, Marvel 2 and 3, Third Strike, Super Turbo, Capcom vs SNK 2, just off the top of my head.

don't know why you are gate keeping this.
a game is competitive if people are willing it play it competitively and other people are willing to watch it be played. Not this made up bullshit in your head. Anyone can make any rules they want. People are just going to follow what rules makes the game more competitive.

>He doesn't fucking know
The entire Melee community is on fucking fire because of Hbox breaking their game to the point that people have resorted to throwing dead crabs at him whenever he showcases how broken and dumb the stupid game is.

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I do. Only really attend locals but I usually go 2-2 or 3-2 at them.
I'm the only peach main in my scene which is kinda good as I get a lot of people who want to play with me to practice the match up.

t. hasn't watched a single game of smash in the last 5 years

They're not fool proof characters. There are other top-tiers that are next in line that can do well against spacies. Everybody would just automatically jump on them. Mids aren't viable because they're matchups with the top 8 are generally bad. Melee isn't brawl where Meta Knight is the absolutely best character. It's a game where anyone below the 13 best characters are useless at higher levels.

I get this arguement, however I know it's possible to avoid all of them. Maybe.....MAYBE keep the fan out but the rest should be fair game

In what way does banning a character who isn't even in the top 8 improve the competitive integrity of the game?

>Banning a character because one dude does extremely well with it while nobody else does
Might as well put up a sign saying "No Hungryboxes Allowed"

But telling Ice Climber players to not use what their throw game can do is asking a fighter to pull their punches (punching as an action is something every boxer has access to, and the type of punch in the example of Melee is the throw), which is match fixing in the world of boxing and is not allowed

imagine thinking chaingrabbing is the same as wobbling, what a fucking retard lol
I'll somewhat give you your second point, but even then, jigglypuff can do that more safely than Fox and Sheik not to mention Jigglypuff execution or risk on that are none existant.

Literally this, mango being jerked off so much has literally cause him to not give a flying fuck about melee and he was arguably the most entertaining thing about melees gameplay.

Sounds like Ultimatefags who cry about Joker because of Leo.

And yet melee is the only gane who's community just can't let go of. Is it autism?

They aren't banning a character though.

More like has watched every melee match for the past decade. Cope harder

Cope and seethe

Lot's of people have been playing Jigglypuff and using his strategies though. It';s not just the one guy, though yes he is clearly the best and you have some wannabe's that try to do what he does and fails.

but no other fighting game plays the same as melee, so playing other fighting games won't solve this.

>Elbowing is something that every boxer has access to, and banning it is not allowed.

If you hit puff while she's ledgestalling, she still has 4 jumps
Those other characters basically just die
And it's still not seen as "perfectly fine," the community has agreed that banning puff is retarded but a flat Ledge Grab Limit is best for the game

they've thrown more than one crab at him?

what a waste of quads

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Most other fighting games get GOOD sequels. Brawl was so unfathomably terrible, everyone just went back to Melee. And then Smash 4 came out and still sucked ass, so Melee kept living. It took almost 20 years for Nintendo to make a Smash game good enough to the point it doesn't feel like a waste of time when we could be playing Melee

To add to this example:

Lets make the example of a right hook be the equivalent of a throw in Melee for this example. Yes the Ice Climber's throw is more potent then the other fighters because they can do an infinite that the other characters can't. In fighting, not every fighter's right hook is the same and some are more powerful than others. Some can even knock you out on a single hit and fighters know this which is they try not to get hit by the dude who has a killer right hook.

What is trying to say is like telling the fighter with strongest right hook in the WBC to not use it because his strength is unfair. That's ridiculous

They effectively are, don't try to play semantics. The point is Ice Climbers aren't a top character even WITH wobbling so how does that have any impact on the game's "competitive integrity"?

If you think this ban is being done for any reason than to appease retarded twitch viewers who find it boring then you're mistaken. It has nothing to do with the game itself.

Maybe ice climbers should have learned how to player their character outside a single grab.

because that said character can lock their opponent out of the game with nothing to do.
Let me make it easier to understand.
Imagine a character where you can press a I win button (I know its more than pressing a button, but the technique behind wobbling is not challenging enough to be relevant)
I don't understand why you don't think that is a problem. You just seem like a biased retard

The problem with Melee is that it's in itself gatekeeping because a large part of the games community revolves around an exploit with some characters are only viable via other glitches and exploits, and now the community is cherry-picking which exploit is and isn't fine.

will you weirdos ever realize you're projecting when you use "autistic" as an insult lol
being passionate about something has nothing to do with "autism"

you can always split them up and wobbling in only guaranteed at ~25% or more as long as you mash. there are ways to fight it, it's not the same.

Brawl was so bad competitively that fans had to make a mod just to fix the game which actually stood on its own until some of the devs false flagged a DMCA to make Super Smash Trannies.

All that means is that it's a proven strategy and that people need to adapt. The character's clearly not broken enough to warrant a ban or you'd see it dominating in every tournament instead of just one dude dominating with it.

Lol brawl outclassed melee in every way shape and form kid. Autists just couldn't let the game go and REEEEEE at everything that isn't their 1 game of choice

destroyed. fuck icies. you dont know how stupid it is facing them

>Hbox wins so jigglypuff is the most broken
Only leffen actually believes jigglypuff is better than fox and he just 6-0 hbox, nobody outside of leffen actually believes fox is not the best.

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There are newer set ups that are basically guaranteed at 0.

I know this is retarded bait, but brawl literally had one viable character.

>brawl outclassed melee in every way shape and form kid
>tripping
>literally punishing you for moving

Just don't get grabbed, it's literally that easy

You say that. But does anyone want to see a character get into top 32 with one (1) move that eliminates an entire stock off of one neutral opening? Usually I'd agree with you but watching people who actually put effort into their gameplay to make desync combos (multiple fast inputs, looks cool as hell, same effectiveness as wobbling) makes me think wobbling has 0 competitive value. The results of ICs wouldn't change, their pure kill power and effectiveness would be exactly the same, except there would be no more idiots getting free wins for the same effort as it would take another character to land a combo opener. Not a combo, just an opener.

>until some of the devs false flagged a DMCA to make Super Smash Trannies.

i want whatever you're smoking

what the fuck is super smash trannies supposed to be? rivals of aether?

The only retard here is you if you think that banning a character who barely shows up in tournaments has anything to do with competitive integrity. If Ice Climbers players were dominating every tournament I'd agree with you but they aren't.

that grab is the only truly good thing the character has

>something are fine while others aren't
Wow its almost like not everything is the exact same.

they can do whatever they want. An exploit that opens the game up and allows for higher skill ceilings? Sure. An exploit that will insta-lock out your opponent with no way to escaping? Fuck no
Cherry-picking is used when someone is giving an argument and they decided to use the evidence that supports them and ignore the evidence that doesn't. You are not using the term correctly here.

>different techniques are treated differently because they have different effects on the game
wow that's crazy man... such hypocrisy...

There are two problems with items
>Most of them are too strong and don't take much effort to use
>Random items in random spawn locations at random times
If items were toned down and spawned in set locations on a timer they would be part of the format. I could see them adding a lot of depth to the game similar to how pickups work in quake as now you've got to think about when and what item will spawn and how you're going to use it and whether it's worth the risk. Stages would be a lot more interesting because you could mix up item locations. Why Sakurai hasn't done this yet I don't know.

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Icons: Combat Arena

Icons or whatever it was called.

Probably talking about Icons. Now that was a shitshow.

$6,000,000 of crowdfunded money to make a Melee clone full of ugly designs and janky animations.

look at this fucking retard. think of Comp. smash as a game mode, we don't want to play with items so we don't. simple as that.

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What about all the cool desync stuff they can do? Or is that too much effort?

Melee
>abuse a mechanic that isn't meant to be in the game in the first place
Brawl
>REEEEEE NEW MECHANIC'S I CAN'T COPE REEEEE
If meleefags spent half as much time learning how to avoid tripping as the do learning to wavedash this wouldn't even be a talking point

>Ledge Grab Limit
that's also retarded, as M2K stated, not only JIgglypuff benefits from this but also other characters get the short part of the stick.
Jigglypuff abuses the Ledge, but in the TIME consuming way, how many times do you think a Fox can grab the ledge vs a jigglypuff?
Mave 2 or 3 times faster than a jigglypuff, is probably the same for the others, Ledge Stalling is using for other stuff just as baiting your opponent that you are going in just like with Haxtashing or whatever is called.
Jigglypuff just want to waste time in the ledge, other want to force a read and use the ledge more often.

Don't forget online only, forced input delay and loot boxes before even finishing the characters.

Maybe its because no one wants to play a character where the only good thing about them is a grab that makes your opponents game unplayable
Even is most people don't want to abuse it should still be banned because a small portion will.

He just made items more broken over time and made them less fun to play with. I haven't enjoyed playing with every item on since brawl.

well that was literally my point was the RNG. i don't think items being too strong would even really matter honestly because you never know if people would like the item-usage meta more than actually using their characters if there was no RNG.

The best desync stuff comes out of a grab. desyncs in neutral dont have nearly the raw power of their punish game out of a grab, with or without wobbling

>outplaying someone for a minute straight
>knock them away
>you're at 20%, they're at 110%
>a heart container spawns under them
>they're at 10%, outplayed :^)

This is why items are banned
You can also replace it with pokemon that almost guarantee kills, or bombs, etc.

Absolutely because Jiggs doesn't follow the MUH 20XX memeshit.

>Seething
Back to plebbit

Gotta agree. Pretty much everything after Brawl feels over designed and gimmicked whilst being overly powerful.

Considering the optimal play for almost every item is to just throw it at your opponent they're pretty boring even in casual games.

>punished, as if you made a mistake
>for moving on the ground
the fact that tripping was intended just makes it worse

And with this we finally pass the point where Melee is truly dead. It being completely outdone by Ultimate at EVO should have already solidified this, but now it's absolutely certain.

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Competitive Smash is and always has been boring as fuck to watch.

Melee is dead! Says the nervous man for the 30th time

It's better than sleep fighter 5 at least

LGL only comes into play when the game goes to time.
If both players are ledgestalling, the rule doesn't come into play.
If only a Puff breaks LGL, then continues to camp while a Fox shoots lasers, the Puff will lose.
This is more commonly done by Puff because her ledgestall is extremely powerful and low-risk

No character ever "accidentally" hits LGL, it only punishes deliberate stalling for minutes at a time

I'm about the same, I lose to the same few bracket demons. I'm a Marth main so it's less interesting to people. Wish I could play you cuz I have no idea how to beat turnips.

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Ice autists btfo

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>turn a "fighting" match into a seizure having competition
>new game punishes blatantly unnecessary movement to make you fucking stop because you were never intended to play the game this way
>this is somehow a bad thing
Have you tried playing like someone who isn't an autistic sperg enjoying his last day on Earth? Of course you haven't.

>in a real fighting game
and there lies the main issue

I enjoy weapon items like the sword, super scope, blaster, ect. Sometimes they're annoying and interrupt you from getting to use your character, but they're a direct advantage. It'd be nice if you could control where items spawn so you could have strictly scope/laser battles on a larger map.

>learning how to avoid tripping
Play meta-knight and never touch the ground?

>>new game punishes blatantly unnecessary movement to make you fucking stop because you were never intended to play the game this way
>walking on the ground
>unnecessary

>Laser camping Fox players get the priveledge of having control of a match
This is why the rule is retarded

>dodge in place
>dodge in place
>dodge in place
>dodge in place
>dodge in place
>this goes on for most of 2 to 5 minutes
>this is somehow better than literally anything else.

But SFV was pretty objectively terrible and everyone moved on to it anyway. What could be the difference?
Oh yeah, Capcom putting up more money than than any other FGC tournament could even hope to pretend to have.

They spent MILLIONS
To make
HUNDEREDS

>moving back and forth in place while your opponent is way the fuck over there
>dodging for no reason other than "if I stop I'll be at a disadvantage because he's also doing this"
>LOOK AT HOW FAST THIS CHARACTER ISN'T SUPPOSED TO GO GUYS
Yes, unnecessary movement. If you wouldn't play like an asshole this wouldn't be a problem. Real sports have rules against being a jackass. This is why competitive gaming will never be "sports."

they even tried to have them legal for a long time, the guys who were advocating for it (under the same arguments people make today) banned it themselves lmao

Thanks for letting us know you have never fucking watched a single game.

Marth can SH nair through turnips usually. Best way to stop peach from pulling too many is just to threaten space around her since Marth can easily punish the pull time.
Also practice catching them as a way to punish peach.

Nintendo puts $0 into Smash esports, so Smash players have no incentive to play a game they don't like.

>uses sports anaolgy
>whilst complaining about people moving
Man do you complain a boxing match isn't two people standing still too?

I HAVE watched a single game. That is what happened during that game while the audience was losing their shit like something worthwhile was actually happening. Fucking garbage.
>MUH WOMBO COMBO

>>moving back and forth in place while your opponent is way the fuck over there
>don't do that
>walk on the ground normally
>trip
>get punished for walking

>Puff is rewarded for getting hit towards the edge and literally not interacting with their opponent
This is retarded.
If Fox is camping from center stage, it's because they earned it. If they're camping from near an edge, they're at a disadvantage for giving up stage control. Puff ledgestall is pretty much the only situation where you can just completely ignore the micro-game of stage position and gain advantage at no risk

If a boxing match was two dudes bouncing off the ropes actively having seizures the entire match, then yes, I would in fact complain, as would most people. Not compfags, though.
>so meta
>much excite
>scrubz and n00bs look up to me 4 lyfe

Just stop watching these autists play "competitive" melee and let their "scene" die already.

There's no reason to support this crap anymore

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look at this guy
look at this guy and laugh

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So it's boring because you witnessed it once with no knowledge or understanding?

I mean, tripping is retarded but it punishes autists so it's a win in my book.

Fox didn't earn the right to laser camp if he doesn't have the percent lead.

>LOOK AT HOW FAST THIS CHARACTER ISN'T SUPPOSED TO GO GUYS
Oh hey, someone else who only plays casual trash game and doesn't realize that speed he sees was 1000% intentional.

GUYS STOP HOLDING YOUR STICK ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT, IT'S TOO FAST
STOP USING THE L-CANCEL THEY PROGRAMMED INTO THE GAME

And you also clearly don't understand whiff punishing, but I'm not even going to get into that

If I'm playing with someone and they air dodge into the ground, I quit. I don't play with cheaters.

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Waaah why does he keep moving!
That's unnecessary!

>uses the example of the boxer literally everyone hated and wanted gone from the sport

i am laffin

If I'm playing Smash and someone throws me, I quit. Using a move where I lose control of my character for more than half a second is cheating

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That makes sense. The last time I played a Peach I tried to camp them, so I did none of that.
it's Z that catches items right?

it punishes anyone who plays the game. Every one of the millions of casuals

>i have watched a single game

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Every laser shot is a risk, where he could get clocked in the mouth and eat a huge combo for trying to deal 3%
If it's not a risk, because he's retreating, he's giving up stage control which is a more complicated disadvantage
He earned those lasers for taking that risk

Same thing as fireballs in any 2d fighter

Why is this such a controversial thing? It seems pretty obvious to ban it, if they'll ban that freezing glitch you can do with them I don't see why this is any different.

>Find some videos of Wobbling
>All these guys staring at the screen with a blank, lifeless expression once they get their opponent in the infinite
>Opponent may have to wait for over a minute if it's a fresh stock

Not really invested in competitive Smash but after seeing those clips and their blank looks I'm glad to hear it's getting banned.

All someone has to do is grab you and they get free damage and the throw will guaranteed kill at certain percents. So long as the IC player isnt braindead they can maintain the hold indefinitely.

In brawl people were gonna ban chaingrabbing and they settled on stage bans like no walkoffs or shadow moses. Wobbling is arguably worse since you dont need special circumstances to keep on grabbing.

Yeah, peach can out camp Marth easily but she really struggles when it comes to approaching him outside turnips and low float cancelled aerials.
Z is to grab turnips and also to drop them. A good punish with Marth if you get one is jump above z drop and then fair.

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>It's a risk

So what faggot you don't have the health advantage so you can't laser camp. Don't get mad because somebody refuses to play your game, it's like getting mad at somebody blocking in the corner 5 seconds from timeout in a 2d fighter while you sit in the corner throwing fireballs. He doesn't have to approach you, he already won. It's on you to make something happen.

Thing is, that 90% of the content is really broken.
Go up to M2K, HBox, Leffen, ect. and ask to play against them on Icicle Mountain with items on.
I can guarantee you that you will lose harder to them than you would with the banlist on.

>Wobbling is arguably worse since you dont need special circumstances to keep on grabbing
1) Nana needs to be alive. It's tough keeping her alive against anyone with a brain, as most characters in the game have tools to seperate them. After separation, killing Nana is easy as she makes no effort to escape a combo or survive.
2) Nana needs to be around. This won't happen EVERY time, as basic movement can desync her from Popo and force her to have to catch up.
3) Enemy can't mash out. This condition varies based on whatever setup you used to land the grab. A solid one can secure a wobble at zero, but those are by no means easy to land. A raw grab won't confirm a wobble until about 40-50 percent

I've always loved the casual elitist mentality where they think they would immediately beat the top players if it was items on and random stages.

gotta ban yoshi and puff next

BASKETBALL CAN’T BE COMPETITIVE
THEY BANNED HOLDING THE BALL FOR TOO LONG AND BANNED DRUG USE

Maybe smelee players should try a real fighting game

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Haxdashing or refreshing invincibility even several times in a row is totally fine.
Being completely invincible for minutes at time, with no risk or downside is kind of stupid.
We aren't mad people refuse to play "our game," it's just not fun when they refuse to play THE game.

Every fucking competitive sport or game in existence has rules to force or at least incentivize interacting with your opponents

see below mouthbreather

Approaches must be hard, I considered maining her but her play leans towards playing safe usually. I like the balance Marth strikes between being a campy dickhead and rushing in with tippers. Thanks for the turnip advice, I need to get used to item play overall

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Holy fuck that looks awful

why even have combos that go on for this long

All infinite ledge stalls are against the rules, they are "invincible" because you are refusing to play their game. The rule incentivizing YOU to go interact with them is the percent lead.

here is the real reason why wobbling was banned: you get some reasonably skill ice climbers, probably not even ranked and then they grab a high ranking player 8 times in 2 game to knock them out of the tourney and then they immediately lose to a shitty captain falcon because they didn't get lucky with their interactions. now seeding is fucked up and someone probably gets an express path to top 16 for doing nothing but their opponent losing to a unlucky set

I play a very aggressive style of peach where I use a lot of her defensive options to approach and force space with them.
Marth is definitely the best of both worlds in that regard, he basically has the sphere of safety where his sword can reach. (if you wanna experience hell, try playing doc or regular Mario against a competent Marth and try to approach them).

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Sounds like this high ranking player is actually trash for getting grabbed by a bad player

the actual FGC thinks this is stupid too
It's the #1 thing people complain about regarding Alpha 3

it happens, we know it happens, we can't stop it from happening. top players getting scummed out by much worse icies has been a thing as long as wobbling was legal

Busted games are so much fun

Why do the characters take almost no damage once their health gets low?

puff won't ever get banned, ledgestalling should've been banned a long time ago

also ICs are still trash and barely make top 8 at big tournaments and wobbling shouldn't be banned

t. ranked shiekmain and I hate wobbling more than any of you fags ever could

has this ever happened?

in case you haven't noticed, fighting games are entirely populated by people with autism who will gladly grind for 100 hours to memorize combos

more combos = more memorizing = more good

Most games have damage scaling on combos to prevent touch of death infinities.

Damage scaling: Each move in the combo does less damage as the combo goes on longer and longer. It's a standard feature of pretty much every fighting game

Most fighting games have a mechanic to try to prevent infinities by having your damage decrease relative to your combo count.

Doesn't the whole stock system balance out the fact IC have an infinite? This isn't like a Megaman fly or Jedah nero osg where you literally can't do anything about it once they set it up. You got 3 more stocks.

isn't that bananas whole shtick? he never wins anything but scums out wins over better players?

s

Puff will be next.

ITT seething capcom cucks use buzzwords and playground insults to try to convince each other that Melee players are x, y, or z.

Instead of outright banning wobbling why don't they just implement a limit on either how long one can maintain the infinite or how much % one can put on your opponent in an infinite.

ICs are entirely unviable now.

While 0 to 100 is gay, wobbling is a high skill setup that should provide some form of payoff.

>ledge stalling will be next
fixed

I agree with you in theory, and like this about fighting games in general, but Puff's ledgestall is just too strong.

In any other fighting game, simply holding down-back will not work for more than 3 seconds. You can just dash up and throw. If they just run and jump away, they're being predictable and there is a counter to it. You can use the fact that they're not attacking.
There is basically no such counter to Puff's ledgestalling because she's putting out hitboxes and threatening you while also being almost impossible to attack, and I think 80% of the time LITERALLY invincible

Correct, it’s effectively the equivalent of a 25% combo in a real fighting game it’s honestly a joke they are banning it.

Did they ever end up banning megaman fly?

>why don't they just implement a limit on either how long one can maintain the infinite or how much % one can put on your opponent in an infinite.
They do have this. The limit is 300%. This is only in place to prevent stalling. killing with a wobble is still guaranteed below that number

She definitely can become a rushdown once she lands a good turnip or fadeback N-air. In that sense she doesn't really feel like a floaty, her combos are great and I've never had much trouble landing combos on her either. I've been the one causing hell to stubby chars before, even made a Luigi quit out once. Luigi is better than Doc/Mario at getting in purely on his wavedashes, but that guy really hated down tilts

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>Instead of outright banning wobbling why don't they just implement a limit on either how long one can maintain the infinite or how much % one can put on your opponent in an infinite.

they already did to prevent stalling. a wobble to 100 is still a kill on everyone except like... peach?

ICs are fine without wobbling. You can watch Fly and Wobbles be extremely dominating without it.
"Without wobbling, Ice Climbers are still in the same spot on the tier list in my opinion. People say they "need" wobbling which is completely not true." - Axe

>retards who can't put in the 2 hours to have a competant pocket ganondorf
What a barrel of fags

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this, it should really be illegal at around 50% to make killing for free harder but still allowing the percent gain.

>Just because no ICs have ever won a major tournament with wobbling unbanned doesn’t mean they aren’t viable without it ok one guy that religiously played them for over a decade for fun exists in tournaments or something

Truly great stuff here.

a wobble is a kill on 120 by the edge, 150-160 mid stage, and 200 on the opposite side of the blast zone you're launching to. Varies by weight, of course

When you start doing more technical shit with Peach she can get pretty absurd, like using djc nair to functionally waveshine people.
Marth's dtilt and fair can invalidate most of the casts approaching him.

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Really depends on the crowd, marvel fans really love their infinites. Capcom players, yeah you're right they probably don't like it as much as others. There are pro Street Fighter players who heavily disliked the dumb stuff you can do in SF4 like the 0 frame or 1 frame links, which goes in contrast to the audience that loved it

Peach with good DI and SDI and Samus.

wobble to 100 and then chain grab for like 20%, you will almost always reach the edge while doing so. which is why peach would survive since she doesn't get chaingrabbed

There's a couple of peach specific hand offs.

I meant, instead of banning the technique altogether, why not make it so you can't deal more than 40% with pummels inside of one infinite. This way there's still a payoff for the setup (high damage, or a kill >60), but 0 to stock gayshit is outlawed.

I'm sure Axe doesn't "need" edge play either.

>why not make it so you can't deal more than 40% with pummels inside of one infinite
thats what they are doing? they are making it so you can't pummel more than 4 times which is already a stupid amount of damage

first of all
>not killing with a wobble anywhere on stage
secondly, very few characters at all get chaingrabbed by ICs. This is only reliably doable against Sheik

I sure as hell never heard of any character-specific handoffs. The only thing character-specific about them is timing on d-throw to grab, which varies by weight

Nonissue compared to the lack of ledge grab limit

Falcon just won a supermajor for the first time in over a decade, so was he not viable before then?

Your the only pathetic person here, can't handle the depth of smash, can you brainlet? Enjoy your dogshit noskill rng ugly visualy overbloated clownfest of a game faglord.
>Buhuhu the creator of ssbm never intended for smash to be competitive, so you guys are wrong, it's strictly a party game because creator said so
I can't comprehend why you drones keep repeating this braindead argument, if you want to play at home with a few buddies, how is a skill ceiling preventing you from doing so? If a tournament is being held, does that prevent you from playing at your own level at someone's local Wii? Enjoy your preschool tier skill ceiling fucking idiot

??? Ics down throw is pretty much just as good at chain grabbing as sheik and ganon’s

DID FALCON JUST HAVE KNEE BANNED

Yes. Only sheiks and ganons, and no one else. They can also do it on Falco, but that requires reading DI every time, so it's not practical in the slightest.
It's not worth going for when i can just kill you on the spot

I've seen that DJC shit before, it's insane what float cancels can do. I keep forgetting she's top 6 because I don't see her often in top play, then I get beat by one and I remember how insane her combo potential is.

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Imagine believing this, imagine believing a game with garbage mechanics, comic book tier visuals and rng is better than the most advanced platform based fighting game to exist, off to Reddit you go

I have researched what wobbling is and I don't see how people here think it's bad that it's being banned. I don't know how such garbage was allowed in the first place.

It just shows that games that were never intended or updated to work competitively should not be played as such.

>Smash is braindead
>Ultimate hard
Hahahahahahahaahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahaaagahahahha hahaha fuck this Reddit infested shithole of a board, never going here again

how is wobbling any different from sheik's chaingrab?

>that is a skillcheck on your APM
t. Someone that hasn't played Starcraft
LaughingWhores.jpg @ the Smash community.

not that guy but icies can down throw chaingrab sheik, ganon, marth, captain falcon, bowser, pikachu, pichu, link, yoshi, DK, young link, roy and gnw. just with varying %s where it actually works. you can chaingrab space animals at high % but its stupid fucking hard

Peach honestly has some of the best free flow combo potential in the game, you just don't see a lot of it because it's not as easy as just learning some basic punishes to kill with.
You don't see a lot because the scale of learning her gets quite steep and she is also combo fodder for most common characters.

>P-PLEASE POPULATE MY DEAD FIGHTING GAME PLEASE
Never gonna happen buckeroo

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The chaingrab is only a good chunk of dmg that stops working after around 40% damage.

The wobble is any % to DEATH guaranteed unless they mess it up.

Nintendude is officially DEAD

Nah, it was legal until the game officially patched it out. The game was too special interest for anyone to make a big stink about it. In the early days though it was always a side attraction game so instead the meta was mostly revolving the brokenness. Case in point this was what high level looked like before patches came out:
nicovideo.jp/watch/sm17304412

>sheik and ganon
yes
>marth
at zero, literally. no higher than zero not 10%, not 5%. Zero
>captain falcon
only reliable at high percents, when a simple throw to smash attack would kill
>bowser
who gives a fuck. nobody plays bowser
>pichu
same as bowser
>link
same as pichu
>yoshi
i've never actually seen this before. might test it out. i might see more yoshis with Amsa around
>young link
same as link
>roy
same as young link
>gnw
same as roy

very few of these are worth going for

That makes sense, I first picked Marth because I knew if I played the edge right I could get some easy kills. Melee's meta inevitably revolves around using everything at your disposal to try and get a kill in as early percents as possible. In the end it's most rewarding to get Peach-like combos though, I enjoy Melee the most when I can do something that just looks and feels sick.

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Legit why do people still play this game? Can people just not move on to a game with more variety and funner to watch? I literally don't understand why people think Melee is fun to watch. I legit don't get it. Why can't these people move on from the game that's been out for 18 years?

Icies have plenty of alternatives to wobbling that are almost as powerful without being as miserable to play and watch.
But even if banning wobbling really destroyed them, Icies being "viable" is not worth wobbling.

A wobbling ban is the one rule that really pushes the line though, I get it. It's 100% artificial and done for fun instead of balance, in a way most other rules aren't, even across other games

i don't get why people think your game is funner

I've never really cared about playing super optimally and instead try to go for whatever I think will work in a situation.
Had a conversation once with a top player about how there's no such thing as optimal as the optimal will be the expected result.

I picked up Marth in Brawl because the Game Guide told me he was higher tier than Ike, whom my brother mained. He was unbeatable with him, until I picked up Marth and beat his ass.

Also, chain grabs are greatly effected by stage and platform position
Wobbling completely ignores this

And?
Holding the ball is like telling a boxer to throw punches. They aren’t playing to the full potential.
You don’t complain when other fighting games do this, even when they ban specific moves and stages.

I know but I was just stating that they do have more chaingrabs than sheik. also "only reliable at high percents, when a simple throw to smash attack would kill" actually falcon gets escapes at high %s, he gets chaingrabbed to 40 and then away DI lets him escape, the marth chaingrab works until 8% or 1 regrab. also I forgot to mention pikachu that gets chaingrabbed to 45%

Because people like playing it? Why ask such a pointless question?

anything is more fun than your autistic fox vs. falco simulator.

Melee as a system has variety, since combo strings are basically a sandbox game where you can do anything you want if you're skilled enough. It also helps that a Mid-tier won a major recently, never seen anything close the kinds of combos Axe's Pika was doing that day.

Fuck right off. Wobbling is hilarious.

for the past 18 years, new smash games were overly defensive, boring snoozefests. Only Ultimate feels like it offers things Melee doesn't, specifically with it's roster. However, melee still has things that no other smash game has. Fast pace, big hitstun for sick combos, and being extremely satisfying to learn and master, all things that Ultimate lacks

Because Melee is god damned special.
It rewards creativity in a way almost no other game does. It allows you to be expressive in a way no other game does. It's much faster and more technical than basically any other fighting game

Hundreds of thousands of people appreciate those qualities, and -NO- other game comes even close to replicating them

F

naw your game is boring sweetie

Could have sworn i only ever saw it work on falcon at like 120 or something. i'll lab it out later

>WHO BITCH THIS IS

well Yea Forums?

youtu.be/1Sfs9h3bIDg

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What exactly about smash being the most popular fighting game is so triggering?

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you might be thinking of falco who has fucking retarded chaingrabs starting at 80.

Fox vs Falco is more deep and interesting than any matchup in Ultimate

>Legit why do people still play this game?
Suggest a game that does Melee's gameplay system better than Melee.

> Can people just not move on to a game with more variety and funner to watch?
Suggest such a game.

>Why can't these people move on from the game that's been out for 18 years?
Why would anyone want to abandon a game that is fun?

>I literally don't understand
That just sounds like a brainlet problem then.

That's interesting, reminds me of the Mew2King vs. Mang0 section in the Smash Doc. optimal things end up another kind of predictable. The only situation where I think optimal is actually optimal is basic edgegaurds, but even then people will do amazing but incredibly difficult mix-ups because the ledgegaurder is expecting a basic recovery.

Nothing is better than trolling Smeleefags by calling their "tech" glitches.
I've heard the "its not a glitch its a legitimate way to play the game that was 100% intended" argument a million times before. It's just funny to continue calling it a glitch until they're foaming at the mouth.

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Was out of the loops of the melee evo drama. Why was it removed from the big stage?

S And P

Likely to make room for 2 unreleased games. Luckily, Samsho doesn't suck ass

Ledge guarding becomes an incredibly complex mind game with a lot of different mix ups and coverages.

It was the only game at Evo that still used CRTs, so they decided it was more trouble than it was worth to keep it around.

ledge grab limit should've been implemented before wobbling is banned, but banning either doesn't take any effort so hopefully it will come next.

I'm happy that Samsho did well and have been enjoying what of it I have played so far (don't really have the time at the moment to commit to it). But I still don't really like the fact it was announced as a headlining game for EVO before it even had a release date announced.

it's not a fighting game.

The ledge is really what makes Smash as a game great, no other mechanic can produce such creative plays from both the player in advantage and disadvantage.

So how long until desync combos are banned as well because they're deemed "non competitive"?

Pikachu is a pretty big omission lol

It's nice of them to take turns.

oops
chaingrabbing him is actually useful. Shiek too, for that matter.
When Nana is out of place, Popo can just chaingrab until she catches up, and then commence the wobble

never gonna happen. even at a spectator level people love them.

totally different things and are harder to execute and DI dependant.

Uh, buddy? What?

is this sarcasm? it should be

then it's a competition on apm?

nope. Ledgeplay is sick.

>depth of smash
lol

Ledge play is what defines Smash, is not about just killing your opponent at % or getting reads.
It's EARNING a kill by going out instead of waiting for them to get on stage safely.

samefagging, the problem is that there are also situations where edgegaurds are almost free, like the marthkiller. For the most part, ledgegaurders have to outplay someone to kill them, even if it's only one interaction.

>HAHAHHAHAHA SMASH BROS NOT FIGHTING GAME HAHAHAHAH
>PARTYYY GAMEEMEMEMEMMEME
>W-WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT HAS BETTER MECHANICS THAN STREET FIGHTER 5?
>F-FUCK Y-YOU S-S-S-BASEDBOY

How does it feel having the same copy paste opinion as everyone else on this board, user? Are you happy? Well, are you?

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why play the older games if you have to set an arbitrary set of rules just to 'play fair'?

>fun to watch
>fox, falco, marth, and sheik are the only characters anyone uses
>6 legal stages
Fun game. So much variety and spectacle.

would be fucking dope but not happening
Ness is a limbless potato and good fucking luck setting up the yoyo glitch consistently which is just a gimmick anyways.
You either avoid a straight line between the hitbox and Ness or just shield.
If Ness has a jacket, as soon as he throws a grab/A attack or touches your shield the jacket is gone.
It's hard to set up and Ness doesn't really get much of it besides "surprise!"

because that 'fair' game comes out great

All rules are arbitrary in life. Are you some kind of fag that follows laws?

How did a bunch of nerds make Melee's netplay better than fucking Nintendo's online for Smash Ultimate?

wouldn't it make more sense to just put the effort into the new game and maybe see balance patches due to the attention?

discord gg TxwR8Mg

I completely agree. Edgeguarding is the fundamental element that sets Smash apart from other competitive games.

Ultimate is getting new rules too. hero is getting banned. meanwhile even SFV is balanced enough that no rules need to be added

the new game at its core isn't as fun as the old one. so no

You mean like every fighting game?

>W-WHAT DO YOU MEAN IT HAS BETTER MECHANICS THAN STREET FIGHTER 5?
it doesn't, and it's an even bigger joke compared to games like unist and guilty gear.
>How does it feel having the same copy paste opinion as everyone else on this board, user?
what on earth are you talking about? Yea Forums is smashboards 2.0. smash autists greatly outnumber the normal people who bathe regularly.

Not hard when Nintendo are still terrified of the internet.

>be me
>finally reach EVO
>opponent picks a stage
>it's rainbow ride
>we're not even fighting we are just jumping around
>suddenly an item appears
>M tomato and hammer
>enemy regains all their health
>hits me with hammer
>all that work and effort, lost to a fucking hammer

Fuck off Nathanielfag.

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>your

You're still spamming this shit?

I wonder if Melee will live long enough to see Kirby be viable by sole merit of being the literal only fucking character that hasn't been banned.

aren't they both fighting games with simple mechanics?

>thinking characters in melee will ever be banned
>inb4 puff
The issue is ledge stalling. Puff is not that crazy

>this fucking grab
I hate it

the problem is how the gameplay has changed from Melee. what you're describing has already happened with Ultimate, the gameplay has been optimized with the same basic framework as Brawl and that game's patches are perfect (buff low tiers, keep top meta the same but balance S-tier outliers, fix glitches). But all people who like Melee see is that it plays nothing like it. If Brawl had been an optimized, balanced Melee that kept every intended movement option, I gauruntee it would have killed Melee.

What would be the incentive for the player to do that on the off chance they mess up the wobble? I mean I know there's folks that just set their controllers down but i've seen it happen

>smash autists outnumber-
Stopped reading right there, you're a fucking idiot, every Smash thread is full of you copy paste itemfags, we cannot enjoy a fucking thread without one of you biologically inferior freaks of nature just bombarding it with piss and shit.
You think you're so based, huh? Then why are you just pasting the exact same opinion as everyone else?

Under Melee's simplicity lies an ocean of depth, as those two aspects are not mutually exclusive. The game's movement, hitstun, and breakneck pace lends well to a game that is easy to learn, but by no means easy to master.
Ultimate's slower basic movement, lower hitstun, and slower pace leave it far more shallow than Melee

hoping for the wobble to be dropped is why they don't pause the game then SD

>Ultimate is getting new rules too. hero is getting banned.
In your dreams, Leffen.

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>Piano
>Simple
Yeah, if all you play is twinkle twinkle little star and the flea waltz.

>play older Deus Ex/Fallout/SF game over newer games in their respective series
>no one cares

>play Melee over newer Smash games
>retards throw a shitfit

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Insane arcade mastery. Fighting games like this are the equivalent of DDR at the highest level possible or tohou players who set it to maniac, they push the game to the extreme in order to appeal to the fanbase that wants to take it as FAAARR as it can possible go

So you were right, autists.

you faggots spam 20+ redundant smash threads all over the catalog at all times. you want copy-paste opinions? just look at all the smashfags who circlejerk over how "based" it would be if doomguy and geno got into smash.

Even better example would be the fact Brood War is still incredibly popular as a competitive game despite Starcraft 2 existing.

No, because neither 4 nor Ultimate so far have had arbitrary bans. It's why Melee's such a joke. At that point just ban the Ice Climbers, there's no reason to use them if they get stripped off of what made them remotely decent.

Rosterfags don't actually care about the game. Most of them are using it as the new console war shitposting.

This is why fighting games are cool.

>anime fighters
>"""""""""""""""""""""""""real"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" fighting games

LE MOW

Maybe
Just maybe
You should not play a party game pretending it's a competetive fighting game?

>game is bad
>flip a switch
>game is now good
what's the issue here?

OFFICIAL GUYS ITS GONE IN MINNESOTA ITS FUCKING HAPPENING

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>Maybe
>Just maybe
too obvious

Smash Ultimate peaked at 279k while DBFZ peaked at 257k.
It have been confirmed to have highest viewer peak ever.

He said of a fighting game, which Smash is not.

based low-effort poster

holy shit why are melee threads so full of 14 year olds who clearly know absolutely nothing about the game outside of memes about it and maybe a few hours of watching it? every time i enter one of these threads its so blatantly obvious that people try to talk about it while not knowing anything about it or its scene

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take a shower

this

>verified twinkter slang
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAGAHAHAGAHAGAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH MY FUCKING SIDES!

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This is the most pointless god damn hill to die on, it’s like arguing what is and isn’t art. Nigga it’s at EVO, it’s a fighting game. You don’t gotta like it or think it’s a good one, but what’s the point in saying it’s not a fighting game?

No game before Ultimate had competekeks in mind.

then who was Smooth Landing and L-cancelling for

>Nigga it’s at EVO, it’s a fighting game
Not that user and not really interested in the whole smash is/isn't a fighting game thing but I really can't skip a chance to talk about EVO 2006 where they had Mario Kart DS as a main event

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