Are there any well known Nintendo owned characters left to include in Smash?

If your definition of well known imeans normalfags or entry-level subhumans recognize a character, you should stop playing video games.

Probably Toad but I doubt he will ever actually become a fighter. Then again they manage to make a fucking Piranha Plant work really well as a fighter so I guess anything is possible

She was literally the #2 most wanted newcomer around the time of the ballot, and overall like #4-5 (since idiots wanted their clone DLCs back). Sorry you’re gay, bro, but most of the world likes her or is at least indifferent.

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Any character that's good enough to be an assist trophy is good enough to be a character, in fact many of them would be more interesting than Roy/Lucina/Dark Pit/Dark Samus

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Majora's Mask/Skull Kid
Dixie Kong
And unironically Bandana Dee

These characters are the most universally recognizable ones left

Toad is the most obvious exclusion. Really weird that he's not in and just a shitty counter that's completely out of character with how he ever is in the original games.

Unironically Waluigi, normalfags love him

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Kill yourself you retarded kirby faggot. Your garbage is irrelevant compared to donkey kong

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This always bugged me. Of all characters, why does peach have a counter?

Every nintendo franchise is well represented and some are overrepresented.

Toad and Waluigi are the two main ones I can think of. My boy Toad has been cucked since Melee

That doesn't matter, its still part of the DKC trilogy, plus she was in Tropical Freeze. Out of a total of FIVE DKC games, Dixie has been playable in THREE of them, a majority of them. She is clearly the biggest first party omission.

If Toad ever gets in, I hope it isn't just replace with another type of counter. I wonder what would be a good replacement.

Who voted in this? How many? Real talk, most of those wouldn't register at all with most players. A drop in the water compared to the majority of the fanbase who would take say Waluigi on a heartbeat over that compendium of never evers

>haha look at this idiot in 10th place
>says 9th place
i feel like there's some ancient chingchong proverb somewhere that explains perfectly how fucking retarded you're being right now

Not really besides Pokemon and Fire Emblem which could keep filling slots indefinitely until it was just Fire Emblem v Pokemon
Tom Nook should replace [PLAYERNAMEHERE]
Squid Sisters should replace [PLAYERNAMEHERE]
Astral Chain, Fatal Frame and Arms should get characters as well as a few more retro series like Advance Wars and Famicom Detective Club
desu we need a trash cutting reboot more than anything at this point
>Daisy
>Metaknight
>Ness
>Jigglypuff
>Sheikh
>ZSS
>Young Link
>Wario
>Pit
>Dark Pit
>Little Mac
>Palutena
>Incineroar
>Greninja
>Lucario
>DrMario
>Ike
>Shulk
>Roy
>Robin
>Corrin
>Chrom
>Falco
>Wolf
>Fox
>Krool
>Ridley
>the entire third party line up should get a shakeup only carrying over Sonic if anything

We need our items tho. Don’t cut down the item list :(

Cooking Mama

>Half-decade old DK game beats out a brand new Kirby game
cope

Cringe

here's your (You) for that shitty bait.

With Ridley, K. Rool, and Isabelle, yes I count her as a notable omission all the holes are filled with the exception of another Splatoon rep, which the franchise has totally earned. Even then that's not exactly the kind heavy end previous entries have covered. Waluigi and Dixie tread similar ground to what adding Bowser Jr and Diddy Kong did.

Octoling could easily be a cosmetic alt.

>the entire third party line up should get a shakeup only carrying over Sonic if anything

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I should have detailed more, I guess. Along with that, Dixie really doesn't represent much to the DKC franchise. At best they could have one of the many creative locales from DKC3 be represented through a stage, but that's it. Dixie doesn't represent an era, Dixie doesn't represent anything. She's just a side character, Diddy with Blonde Hair and a hover ability. It's no wonder many people would be fine with this character as an echo, but when a character is just fine as an echo, you might as well ask yourself if your character really is important or not.

Imagine actually wanting Smash to get circumcised. Still coping with your loss as a baby?

>the entire third party line up should get a shakeup only carrying over Sonic if anything
Entire post discarded

>Nobody mentions Rhythm Heaven
What the fuck?

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There are so many weapons in Splatoon that it's super easy to make a whole second set of abilities. There also isn't a singular stand-out character to give it to other than generic Octoling.

>well known Nintendo characters
>Rythm Heaven

Mathematically speaking nothing is truly omitted. Every single major release on a Nintendo console has received some form of representation over the years with zero holes now that Banjo and Kazooie are in.
But if you're strictly speaking fighters
>Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble is the 10th best selling game on the console and warrants Dixie an inclusion
>Excitebike doesn't have it's prior representation (assist trophy) and warrants upgrading back to AT, to stage, or to playable character
>Super Smash Brothers itself doesn't have a proper fighter that represents the series like Master Hand or Tabuu, being on of Nintendo's most successful franchises by far, it more than warrants it
>Pokemon Gen 3
>Pokemon Gen 5
Every Pokemon gen has personally carried Nintendo's handhelds and warrant the inclusion

Not from Nintendo is the following
>Tetris, which only has public domain music right now and absolutely warrants remixes, a stage, an AT, or some wack ass fighter
>Goldeneye 007 which outsold OOT on the N64 absolutely warrants a fighter inclusion, or at least a credited inclusion

And then there's Golf, Nintendogs, and Brain Age which can't realistically be realized as fighters and all but Golf have substantial representation outside of fighters. (Golf is arguably represented by Peach and Daisy, as Nintendo's Sports line evolved into Mario Sports, which the move is derived from).

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Just take a look at the spirits list or assist trophies. At least 4 of them will be in the next Smash.

>which the move
which the side smash*

Excitebiker, (Captain) Toad, Dixie Kong, maybe an NES rep like Bubbles from Clu Clu Land.

>Dixie doesn't represent anything.
She represents the DKC series, like Diddy and K Rool. Just because she wasn't in the first game doesn't mean she doesn't count.

Would be nice if all of Nintendo's franchises and games had their main character on the roster. Saki, Isaac, Takamaru, Sabel Prince, Captain Rainbow, Mike Jones, etc. Yeah, they're not AUGHAWAUGHA SUCH BREAKTHROUGHS AND CHANGING GAMES FOREVER but they're still Nintendo characters and the central characters of their games/series.

Arguably the biggest Nintendo franchise not represented above Spirits or Music yet, along with a scrapped fighter in 4.

This. So much this. WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T NINTENDO INCLUDE A GROUND UP REMAKE OF EVERY SINGLE ZELDA GAME IN WITH BOTW?!?!
Face it games that don't include full remakes of every single game in their series should be OUTLAWED!

I would actually love Octavio using shrunken down versions of different boss abilities. He hasn't been outside the mech yet though, so they'd probably be more inclined to just explore more weapon options with Octoling.

Nintendo should honestly come up with a second crossover that would let them include all the franchises that don't warrant the money and time needed to make a fighting game character.

IDK what genre would be best though.

Smash is over. Ultimate will just be ported with more characters now.

The series has nowhere to go in the gameplay department. There's no need for a sequel already, and they can't just go back to cutting characters again after EVERYONE IS HERE

fuck i wasn't planning on looking up krystal porn today fuck you user

Horrible analogy, kill yourself.

Strategy game, probably. Or a second Smash Bros-type fighter that has only one character from each franchise/series/game so they can have time and room to put in all the other main characters.

I kind of wish they'd throw in a star specific to the SNES. So much of the wank was focused on the really old school characters, with Banjo, an N64 star, only getting in through fan demand. I'd say Chrono would be perfect but that's never happening after Hero. I would have loved Terra. After the N64 era it feels like every subsequent star more or less stuck around for more success later on, so I doubt we need to scour the GC or Wii for anyone like that.

An RPG. Basically, Kingdom Hearts but it stays silly and cartoony instead of going retarded.

>well known Nintendo owned CHARACTER
Rhythm Heaven doesn't have any notable characters.

Mario Kart => Nintendo Kart. Super easy to make drivers for those types of games. Also allows for more creative use of those worlds rather than Smash maps.

>I'd say Chrono would be perfect but that's never happening after Hero.

I dont know wasnt it named the best game of the last 30 years or so by the Japanese?

I think we're good on the pokemon front. If anything, a single rep from gen 3, 5, & 8 at best.

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>Saki got removed
H-he's in, right bros?

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Smash bros you need to get in here NOW-

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

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>cutting the trash
>removing palutena but keeping Dark Pit
I will admit, you almost made me laugh, baitposter.

Isabelle was the last Nintendo all-star not in Smash.

>Wonder Red
>Lip
>Ayumi
>Medusa as a Palu echo
>Fucking Anna

How do you have such great taste

I’d say Dixie, Funky, Waluigi, Toad, Tom Nook, Mew, Meowth, and Eevee are the last truly iconic Nintendo characters that aren’t playable, but I don’t think most of them will ever get in

Waluigi, Skull Kid (Majora's Mask is iconic as shit, Skull Kid himself really isn't), Toad, Waddle Dee, and a fuckton of Gen I Pokemon
That's pretty much it. I can understand Waluigi not being in because he's spinoff-exclusive, Skull Kid because he's a one off character, and Waddle Dee because the character hasn't really been solidified as a true main character of the series until recently, but I still have no fucking clue why there isn't any Toad character in Smash. Easily the most iconic Nintendo character not already in.
I fucking adore Rhythm Heaven and Karate Joe is my most wanted character by a large margin but pretty much nothing about RH could be considered "well known"

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At this point, "iconic" would just result in padding the roster with more Mario and Pokemon. Toad and Waluigi are almost non negotiable, and you can argue for the Eevee Family

best thing for Smash 6 would be sprinkling in a few of the cooler side-characters like Urbosa, Gengar etc.

This is how I would have done the Pokemon representation.

Gen 1: Pikachu
Gen 2: Tyranitar
Gen 3: Gardevoir
Gen 4: Torterra
Gen 5: Haxorus
Gen 6: Greninja
Gen 7: Incineroar
Gen 8: out of who we know about at the moment, Obstagoon

Goomba.

You DO use the best alt color of each character..... don't you user?

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Smash bros you need to get in here NOW:

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

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i feel like the only interesting nintendo picks at this point are obscure picks like saki, andy, mike jones and all that jazz
>cutting wario
kill yourself, i mean it

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There are no big omissions. None. Everyone is in, the only characters they can add in now are pointless meme picks that absolutely would not get in the next game. We're literally, not figuratively, scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to characters, it's why dumb shit like Dixie Kong or Waluigi keep getting brought up even though they'd make terrible additions. Like, who the FUCK actually wants to play as Toad? What's he going to do, jump at you? Just because Toad and the toads have been in tons of games doesn't mean they'd be a good fit for Smash. I really wish we could just never have these threads ever again, they're always the same idiocy and whining every fucking time.

>listing mario characters (that I agree should be in) but forgetting every other franchise nintendo has
>mentioning gen1 but no others
>RH which has multiple games across generations and a prescence in Smash 4 & 5 is somehow not "well known"
Cringe pilled post.

Dixie Kong is way more iconic than Samus. DKC trilogy was relevant, something Metroid never was.

this

Same. Could even stand to trim some of the Links

i fucking wish

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>Gen 4: Torterra
Okay as a massive Gen 4 fan (even my favorite being Empoleon), I dont think that'd work. Its either Lucario, Weavile, or Garchomp for Gen 4. MAYBE Darkrai if you truly want to stretch that rep.

You're right, but I'd love the idea of a Pokemon super-heavyweight that rivaled Bowser in mass and weight and while slow has a lot of launch resistance and powerful attacks like Wood Hammer, Seed Bomb, Bulldoze, and Stone Edge.

Dark Samus was an assist retard

In Theory Garchomp could easily be that heavy weight idea. Garchomp was easily one of the heavy-hitters in Pokken.

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I use the green alt on all characters except for Simon since he doesnt have one, so I just use his 4th alt

toad and waluigi are the biggest ones left. but even then, the mario roster is already bloated as fuck so they are far from necessary

>haxorus
>not scrafty

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Paper Mario and Wolf Link/Midna are the only first party characters I can immediately think of that I would actually care about.

To be honest deciding on a Gen 5 rep is a bit tough, it seems to be the gen with the most forgettable Pokemon.

There's tons of them. From donkey Kong alone you have Dixie, funky and cranky. Waluigi still isn't in. There's birdo from Mario spinoffs. They could easily make another pin in character. Paper Mario. Skull kid. Geno. Another F-zero character, Tom Nook, etc. I could easily come up with 50 major Nintendo characters who haven't been included.

I'm kinda curious to see them attempt a full body Andross.

Also Pig Ganon. We constantly get multiple Links and Zelda/Shiek, but they just use Ganondorf.

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Zoroark, despite being a failed marketting ploy, is probably the best rep possible, besides Snivy.

vaati would be cool since apparently ganon cant be a fucking sorcerer

This would also give us the likes of Twintelle, Min Min or Dr. Coyle instead of Spring Man and Ribbon Girl

>I'm kinda curious to see them attempt a full body Andross.
He wasn't exactly an actual fighter/soldier before he became two hands and a head.

Yes dixie is the only major one left.

Nobody actually cares about Dixie though, that's the whole problem with her. Sure she has the credentials but nobody really cares about her much, people just ask because she "could" be in.

No, but he was a dangerous and cunning scientist.

Hahahaha the absolute state of walugigi fags.

You can't make every newcomer a hype release. They couldn't even do it here and they only added like 5 characters. The next game they'll add like 12-13 new characters so there has to be a lot of "padding."

Octoling
Rex
Spring Man
Excitebike

Xb3 will be out by the next smash game. Rex missed his chance.

>I use the green alt on all characters
a man of exquisite taste

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Nah, he's a failed attempt at Lucario 2.0 and isn't visually interesting.

>a FAILED marketing ploy qualifies for a WELL KNOWN character

Waluigi is a good start

there's still a lot of characters to choose from

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Smash bros you need to get in here NOW:

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

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>male robin

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Well known? Probably a couple. However, I'd like to see some more niche guys get some love at least in the form or Assists or something.

Mike Jones deserves at least a fucking spirit.

I love how you people always react like this whenever someone else uses the male option for a character.

Its not my fault they removed female Robin's best alt from Smash 4.

Male Robin and WFT are based.

All of the DLC will be Third Party, you're better off hoping they spice things up for the next Smash when the inevitable mass culling and revamping takes place.

If they can make a plant work.

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>Waluigi
Kys

Yokai Watch rep would be nice.

Well there is this other certain character aside from the likes of Waluigi and Dixie.

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Can't we just have both?
> a representative for the non Sakurai Kirby games & to an extent a real vilain for the franchise
I say we kill two birds with one stone.

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I don't get it. Why is DK smug when Smash Ultimate is a Kirby game.

>Any of the more popular Zelda side characters
>Toad
>Waluigi
Fair.
>A ton of Pokemon
Sakurai is limited to whatever The Pokemon Company wants to advertise plus they always get a newcomer. It sucks they can't use some older characters but they get damn good representation as is.
>Krystal
No.
>FE Antagonist
I understand the reasoning but fuck you anyway for so much suggesting more god damn FE reps.

Dixie Kong fags are insane, she's easily the most boring pick nintendo could do for a first party pick barring Fire Emblem.

He's one of my most wanted, along with other options like Marx and/or Magolor.
That said Kirby, Meta and Dee are the main three and serve as perfect rep's.

I'd love more Kirby charterers but in the grand scheme of things we don't "need" more Kirby characters if that makes sense.

What makes them so horrible and bad? The fact they're male?

You people say that about every Nintendo character people suggest now that every character of actual importance is in.

What do you mean "you people"?

This is absolutely based but it sorely needs Ryu Hayabusa, Rayman, and Dixie Kong.

I unironically want him in.

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>Mass culling and revamping

You guys are hilarious, even in cutfag threads you only talk about the roster rather than features you want and yet you think they’re gonna cut anything non third party.

Puzzle games in general need more rep besides Dr. Mario and maybe Yoshi. For first party characters I can only think of Lip but for third party characters there's Arle, Layton, and Bub/Bob.

post yfw they put in Paper Mario, but base most of his moveset off the last two games

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Happy as fuck provided most of the attention goes to Color Splash. Yeah flawed as fuck but the script is the funniest I ever played.

>black sheep

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AKA: Meme garbage thatr nobody except Yea Forums likes

Well, if we consider Assist trophies as characters included in Smash, then I'd say the biggest 1st/2nd party omissions are:

-Mike Jones (Star Tropics)
-Ninten
-Porky
-Mach Rider
-Paper Mario
-Chorus Kids
-Sandbag (from the Smash series itself)
-Octolings
-Bandanna Waddle Dee
-Tethu/Tethi (Ever Oasis)
-Rex
-Dixie Kong
-Doshin the Giant
-Captain Rainbow
-An ARMS fighter (with Spring Man as an Assist Trophy, I say either Ninjara, Min Min, or Twintelle)
-Peppy, Slippy
-Louie, Brittany, Charlie (Louie and Brittany could likely just be more alts for Olimar and Alph, but due to Charlie's larger physique, he'd probably have to be an echo that might be a little slower but also a little more powerful)

I feel like that covers the bulk of it, of course I think some 1st/2nd party assist trophies really deserve to step up as proper fighters like Skull Kid, Isaac, Krystal, Lyn, Waluigi, Midna, and Spring Man. But since they are in the game and participate in fights as it is, I suppose they don't qualify as answers for who is left to include in Smash?

How would you implement advance wars as a fighter?
I’m thinking a sort of ice climber/Pokémon trainer system where the orange star trio ride in a single tank that can turn into different units depending on whose driving
Max- tank
Andy-battlecopter
Sami - infantry

>everything I don't like is le maymay gurbawg
So who would you like to see in Smash?

An idea I loved is Young Link, but instead of basing him on Ocarina of Time, basing him on Majora's Mask, where instead of having another moveset similar to the other 2 Links, he actually alternates between 3 forms, much like the Pokemon Trainer, these 3 forms being Deku Link, Goron Link, and Zora Link as his B-Down would switch the mask he puts on. His final Smash would then see him turn into Fierce Deity Link. I feel like this is such a cool idea and a real missed opportunity that they never tried anything like this.

>drain punch scrafty

Instant main

>Krystal
Not even a little subtle about being a furfag, are ya, user?

You guys suck for forgetting him so much. Fuck Yea Forums. It's almost like you would actually rather have a support character from a single RPG than the lead villain of a series.

>ton of pokemon
>more fe shit
Please god no

I've also been a fan of this, along with giving Toon Link his actual tools and weapons from his games like the Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer, Grappling Hook, etc.

>zelda franchise is only allowed different flavors of link

>Smaller roster; reworked moves.

I like this as well, but I don't know how likely it is especially when all these old clone characters have become so well established in smash itself. Would fans throw a fit if ganondorf was rebuilt to be nothing like captain falcon, for example?

Doctor mario seriously needs to be cut and made into a costume. Him and dark pit absolutely.

What if I like that his pills are bouncier than Mario's fireballs?

Toad, Tom Nook and Meowth. Especially the first two considering the former's been the Player 3 in Mario's latest multiplayer games, and the latter has a prominent role in Animal Crossing again. Meowth is also well-known due to the anime, but that has less to do with vidya.

According to Sakurai and Yea Forums fans would throw a fit if he was made his own unique character with moves from actual Zelda games.

>More FE reps
>When FE basically has one rep reskinned a bunch of times, and two shill characters that FE fags didn't want
FE has to deal with Smashcancer to this day. Ike had his dick sucked because he was in Smash until the newest games, and Smashfags are the absolute worst FE fans. Smash owes FEchads for the abuse we've had to suffer. That's why we need Our Guy Camus in the game.

>moves are based off all the different boxers in punch out

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James bond for smash

>a fucking floating legless character

>lol y r there 2 metaknights

Uses his tongue instead of legs to attack and can still be hit by low attacks. Next complaint.

Sakurai, if you read this : this guy is trippin. Don't listen to him.

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>WAAAAH I ONLY HAVE SEVEN CHARACTERS, BUT THEY'RE NO MY FAVORITE WAAAAAAH

Fuck off FEcancer.

>Hockey Team
Actually fucking based

There aren't any. More 3rd party characters would be nice though, hoping for Master Chief.

It should at least get a stage.
I wish more non repped series got stages if only for music.

Jibanyan,Captain Toad, Captain Syrup,Pauline,Veran,Vaati,Andross, Hades, Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Skull Kid, Byrne, Sylux, Ribbon girl/Min Min/Twintelle (Springman is already an assist), Birdo, Fawful, Mach Rider, Kamek,
Do it.

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You're pissing me off.

Team Rocket (Jessie or James), Giovanni, Mona, Krystal,Cooking mama, Ghirahim, Linkle, Marina Liteyears, Geno,Zant...

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Agreed. A character that represents the NES's initial lineup of sports titles is an idea with some potential to it.

I was always against bandana dee, but since Piranha Plant got in, BD, would be fine then, since he's basically the Dreamland equivalent.

We need anything but Gen 1
Pokemon has a fuckton of reps but none from gen 2 to 5

I think you meant 3 or 5. Sadly, I don't think Sakurai thinks they need representation, much like how he doesn't feel the need to add a Fire Emblem character without a sword. He seems to default to whoever's the new kid on the block for both franchises.

never ever

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Brawl was probably the best with this, sure I hate Hanenbow but the fact that they bothered to give fucking Electroplankton its own stage is still crazy to me.
As for Rhythm Heaven, I'm really surprised that it didn't even get an Assist Trophy. The biggest non-collectable impact RH had on Smash was a Smash Run enemy.

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they could work like the pokémon trainer, would main them day 1

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Rex/Pyra/Mythra and Spring Man, but those guys are new. I don't know, maybe a character from those black box nes games like the guy from Kung Fu or Urban Champion.

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Came here to post him. He really needs more spotlight in general. Would be awesome to get a Mario game with him and Bowser working together.

I just want to get rid of all the gay ones and add black knight. There's nothing interesting about any of the protagonists.

I always wanted to play as the moon.

Sounds like you're projecting, user.
I wouldn't have listed her if so many furfags like yourself didn't want her.

Any character they include in Smash will end up being well known so there's basically infinite characters they could add.

>gen 5 rep
You guys need to start thinking outside the box a little.

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Funky kong

ARMS, Golden Sun, Chibi-Robo, and Cooking Mama will have newcomers in Smash 6

>Dixie kong
>well known
aha

Fuck Inshiteroar. Tsareena should be the Gen 7 rep.

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Super Armor, absorb all of the damage and knockback while maybe neutralizing a small amount if you land it in the right timeframe. Say that Peach/Daisy are responsible for the actual counter attack while Toad is just responsible for neutralizing the damage.

The most popular Pokemon from Gen 7 was apparently Rowlet, which makes wonder what kind of moveset it would have had.

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I'm still against BD. Kirby is a mediocre C-list franchise that already has all the characters it needs in the roster.

>FE Antagonist
But Robin is still in the game

Jigglypuff with some slight changes.

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>Are there any well known Nintendo owned characters left to include in Smash?

That isn't how that works.
Nintendo can literally put in any Nintendo character they want: popularity or relevance isn't a qualifier as they've included Ice-Climbers, Duck Hunt Dog, Pit from Kid Icarus (who needs another fucking game in my opinion), etc.. So they COULD just slap in Takamaru or Excitebike Man.

Piranha Plant, Petey, whatever her/thing's name is- it also proves they're willing to include a fucking literal mook -IF- they have enough variants.... So, think like Shyguy. Shyguy could be in smash: he's got a million and five variations.

But to answer the question in who >I< want?
>Wart, from Mario 2
>Vaati, from Minish Cap/Four Swords
>Adeleine AND NEVER, EVER, BANDANA DEE, from Kirby 64/Kirby Dream Land 3
>Medusa, from Kid Icarus

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>A ton of Pokemon
>Krystal
>FE Antagonist

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i literally do not care anymore
I got Krool, banjo, shulk, lucas, Greninja, that's all i need.
The only thing keeping me going is the butt hurt from never ever fags like geno

>Black sheep

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also wonderful 101 rep but im not delusional

Yeah, and do you remember how she fought as an assist in 4? That's how she should've played, not reduced to an echo.

>Krystal isn't known despite being an assist trophy and a galore of porn of her

Next thing you're gonna say is that Rouge the bat isn't well known either

How the fuck would Moon work as a character?

Why does bandana dee feel like THE bandwagon choice of a character? Is it because of all the shilling they were doing after having just one game that had him playable before Smash 4 release?

I don't think being popular or having fans really has that much to do with being playable in Smash anymore.
There's at least 20 characters in this list that would have been many times more wanted than loads of characters that wound up being playable.