Echo fighters were not utilized to their fullest potential were they?

True but she would have been fine if instead of the Jetpack she spun with her hair like DK

>no Proto Man
Richter was an elder god tier choice though, at least

The only chance for a new Pikmin rep squandered since they all play the same in game anyways. Ah well

Attached: EBF24216-A80B-45D5-99ED-101A9C0529A8.png (286x350, 9K)

>No Proto-Man for Mega-Man
>No Shadow for Sonic
>No Miss Pac-Man for Pac-Man
robbed desu

There were basically last minute additions with a term slapped onto them to stop people from bitching. Expect to never see it utilized again like custom moves and any other innovation.

I wanted those and Louie. I figured they'd get in!

Attached: 1564434527412.jpg (301x264, 12K)

Damn at the very least they could've given Megaman a skin without his helmet

They really just wasted the idea of skins in general

They should have gone further with it, definitely.
>Funky Kong
>Shadow
>Liquid Snake
>Zack Fair
>Digby
>Blaziken for Captain Falcon
>Alm as a faster, lighter Ike with Marth's up special
>Celica as a weaker Robin without resource management and seraphim instead of nosferatu

Attached: 1495677751464.png (1440x1446, 1.37M)

Honestly i kinda like em as is, because they are basically costumes with some non-vital animation changes, cause damn i do love Dark Samus floating and the fact Daisyfags finally shut the fuck up.

>>Blaziken for Captain Falcon
It would've been weird, and kind of cool to see Echo fighters that were from separate series than the original

Except the whole point of Echos was to be nearly identical so they wouldn't take up any time during balancing.

Ken's the only Echo that is a must stay for Smash 6. Dark Samus and Richter could still come along too..

And the occasional stolen move, i know most Shadow ideas are basically "Sonic, but Up-B is Mewtwos Teleport" and shit like that, we can always hope for a Echo Pass after the Fighter Pass i guess.

Every single marth plays the goddamn same, axe them all and keep either Lucina or Marth

They'd have to change the dash attack too. She doesn't cartwheel. Especially not Diddy's half assed one since Smash 4. I don't get why Sakurai turned it into this weird front flip in the first place.

Considering Ganondorf is still fundamentally a Captain Falcon clone I never want any character to suffer that again. They should stay within the franchise.

It's literally just having different spacing and lacking a horizontal recovery. The most significant thing is Chrom having Up-B as an out of shield option.

Attached: space borb.png (1901x1776, 3.03M)

one of them was

Attached: Ken3sportrait.gif (240x240, 25K)

Hey dude, you must be new right? Roy and marth have sour spot combos that others don't have, so they play different

The "echo" label is pretty inconsistent. Why is Pichu considered unique while fucking Ken is considered an echo?

>Ken is basically a seperate character on the tier of Isabelle, but is labeled as an Echo because "HURR DURR, KEN WAS DA ORIGINAL 1 (even though it was actually Luigi considering Mario Bros. predates Street Fighter by FOUR FUCKING YEARS!)
>All the other Echos get at most two changes because he secretly hates Nintendo

Fuck Sakurai.

This. Diddy had all of his moves that used his tail removed. They only needed to change the up b and nothing else. As for Shadow, they had the model and everything sonic could do, so could Shadow. They only needed to change the running animation.

Roy's Up-B is a decent out of shield option too. It should only be used as a kill option though, while Chrom's is to rack up damage.

>Why is Pichu considered unique
Drastically different weight, movement speeds and a whole unique gimmick.

There should of been 1 new fighter, 1 echo fighter, 1 stage and music in the fighter pass

Ken has different weight, more input moves, different moves, hes just as different to Ryu

I don't understand how they were willing to give Ken the proper clone treatment he needed, where he plays drastically different, but not anyone else.
It seems really lazy if it was because he has established mechanical differences, and they didn't want to think up new mechanics for anyone else.

Ken is only called an echo just so they can say the original echo fighter is here.

After the last real fighter is done they should give us one final Echo fighter pack to go out on. I'd be fucking fine with Geno as an echo of Mii Gunner, I don't even care at this point.

It's crazy because in the beginning Peach and Daisy did have a difference outside of visuals and visual effects, but then Sakurai patched it out for some reason.

I don't understand why they felt the need to make Daisy and Richter echo fighters when they are nigh identical to the original in every way. Even something as simple as one move being different like Chrom's Up B makes it different enough

I'd be more willing to accept Ken as an "echo fighter" if Dr. Mario was one too. But you know they didn't do it to pad out the numbers. Look guys this game has 80 unique characters.

Sakurai literally just made up a term so people would stop bitching about clones like they did in Sm4sh.

See? Now nobody cares about clones because they're acknowledged already.

Genius strategy from him.

Attached: Monica_FE16_Portrait.png (309x309, 145K)

I used to not care about clones but now that there's a completely arbitrary distinction between clones and echoes it actually does kind of bother me.

Would you buy it?

Attached: echo pass.jpg (1980x1112, 1.33M)

If Smash 6 is gonna have a SF rep still, than I'd rather have Akuma instead to switch it up.

>Proto Man
>Louie
instant buy desu

Dark Samus got me into playing Samus, turned out I clicked with the playstyle, than got me to buy Prime 1&2. I'd say they succeeded if their goal was to get people to try a playstyle they normally didn't mesh with the character of all that well.

dr. Mario and Pichu should've been classified as echo fighter while roy, luigi, lucas, ganondorf, falco, young link, toon link, and wolf get many significant new moves. also jeanne and octoling should've been echo fighters as well.

Here's a clone done right.

Attached: Isabelle_AF.png (602x1023, 486K)

Let's be fair, the "Echo Fighter" choices were just plain better then the "Clones" added in Smash 4, i mean even "downgraded" to Echoes most people will admit that Lucina and Pitoo are pretty much the lamest of the bunch. i mean, i guess some Waifufags might disagree about Lucina, but their opinion can be discarded since they are blinded by love.

Nope

Attached: FFCFC89A-5B27-4E7D-A14A-DC8F0557E609.jpg (3952x2211, 1.81M)

Pichu is a completely different (literal) animal to fight than Pikachu. Most attacks will still hit Pikachu no problem, but there are some that will just fly right over Pichu's head meaning you have to drastically change your style to fight him.
He also dies ridiculously early to the point where that needs to be your focus to beat him, to work on taking a stock at like 80% instead of Pikachu which is more like a normal character.

Why is Lucina better than Marth? Why is an echo better than the original?

>there's a completely arbitrary distinction between clones and echoes
Echoes have near-identical movesets, damage, knockback, etc. with a few exceptions like Richter's down special having Lucario's aura properties instead of the fire on Simon's down special. Samus and Dark Samus are almost identical, Peach and Daisy are near-identical, etc. They share all of the above.

"""Clones""" have been changed much more extensively, with characters like Ganondorf and Falcon sharing none of the above (damage, knockback, hitboxes, frame data, etc. etc.) and not playing similarly at all.

There's a clear difference, echoes are literal clones, """clones""" are not.

Metal can't spindash in more games than he can and Sonic has 2 spindash moves & endless amount of moves where he rolls in a ball
Metal doesn't work that well

>no Louie

Attached: 6D58CED7-26EE-4EC8-B316-737F3B9870D6.png (705x898, 511K)

It was just rebranding "clones" so autists wouldn't get mad about a character "stealing" a slot. It worked.

Marth has his stupid sword tip mechanic that means he needs to sweetspot or the knockback is like getting hit with a wet noodle, Lucina does not and just has "normal" sweetspot and damage/knockback outside the sweetspot, so she's better.

because you're bad

Unless...

Attached: 619D7E98-1F45-40D9-A92F-5C53B3F3654F.jpg (2338x2878, 1.12M)

>lol he dunt spindahs sometimes, wunt wurk

When was the last time Mario used his cape? Such a shit choice for the game, he just wouldn't fit, amirite?

Honestly, I thought that about half the cast was going to get an echo fighter when it was announced.
I don't really see the point of it and not just having them be their own character if its just 6.

Why the fuck haven’t we gotten more echoes?

They unironically should have added more FE characters. They play so similarly that they could have been done like the Hero, but I like the echo approach. Should have added some kind of echo for Ike or something. I like that we basically have such a wide spectrum of swordfighters that are minimally different so you can pick whichever suits your needs. They should have also made Blood Falcon and Galacta Knight echoes since they practically have the skins and everything. Also, Shadow and Dixie were no brainers, and it would have been cool to also get TP Ganon and Link back as echoes. Man they really underutilized the idea. They should have crammed the roster full of them.

Attached: 2e1.jpg (640x550, 79K)

>No Protoman with Mega Mans old custom moves from 4
I don't even care that much about PM himself, I just want those cool moves back.

I think it was testing the water first and foremost, now they know people are pretty receptive to the idea of Echoes if the characters are "right" for it, but when you remember how people did NOT like Dark Pit i can understand not going balls deep on them before seeing the reception, the did start with a "Lame" one with Daisy that could easily been a costume and we got the more realized ones with Chrom who had a Recycled Model but one changed move to shake up the gameplay and one that was more about the Cosmetic aspects with Dark Samus, and of course Trevor. They were probably gauging like hell what people liked/disliked about each reveal for any potential future games.

I wish dark samus had some of her assist trophy moves

Just let Ms. Pac-Mans old custom moves from smash 4

Honestly the fact that they scrapped Custom Moves was what made me thing we were gonna get a lot of echoes if anything, because that was A LOT of moves that been lost to the void now.

I mean i get that THOSE PEOPLE did not use or care about customs, but there was some neat shit among them, especially for Palutena whose whole character gimmick was basically them.

Smash bros you need to get in here NOW'

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

Attached: hero7.png (640x640, 636K)

Stop spamming your discord. Or at least change the picture, you're making Eightbros look bad.

can we just word filter discord

Every new character in the fighter pass should have come with one free Echo fighter.=

>They unironically should have added more FE characters

Yeah 7 characters everyone scratches their heads and go "who?????" Wasnt enough.

Please play another series

Yeah a lot of characters had a lot of interesting custom moves that were at times better than the original.

Yep, too bad unlocking them all was such a fucking RNG hassle. People bitch about how unlocking all characters in Ultimate was, but it has nothing on getting all Custom Moves in 4. ...TWICE.

Still mad that Richter's FS isn't Hydro Storm.

Dark Pit and Dark Samus were the most harmed by being Echo Fighters. DP could have showcased all of the various weapons from Uprising, with a different one for each attack. DS had all of her abilities from Echoes and Corruption that could have been adapted. Those alone would have made them very unique and distinct from their bases.

The others weren't nearly as badly affected. Daisy has nothing in the Mario games to differentiate her from Peach skillset-wise. Lucina specifically trained to fight with Marth's style. Simon and Richter were already close enough that sharing some moves between them was logical. As for Chrom, don't know enough about him to comment.

The reason there's so many of them is because people like them. You're in the minority.

Your Mom doesnt work that well. You act like liberties have never been taken in Smash movesets. Go suck a peen, Edgehogfag.

You must be over the age of 18 to post on this website

They like them so much they literally never show up in character request polls.

Why the fuck would you want Proto Man when you could have MMZ Zero

Chrom was pretty popular since he became the male face of Fire Emblem, but I can't say anyone was begging for Corrin to get into Sm4sh.

Because Zero is a faggot and he's in every Capcom crossover ever made

Nobody requested either of them, just like every FE character

You really think that when we got Roy back in 4 over Wolf and they choose Chrom over an echo like Dixie, Proto Man, or Shadow? You really think Chrom didn't do well in the ballot? Your obscure gamefaqs polls that vote up Bandana Dee aren't representative of the overall population

Considering how different Ganondorf is from Falcon now I feel like pic related would be a fitting Falcon echo with a Melee Ganondorf stats, too bad Nintendo doesn’t give a shit about F-Zero

Attached: 732F1085-2A25-44C6-9A02-5A404EC329EC.jpg (1440x2063, 145K)

>No Octolings
>No Shadow Mario
>No Jeanne
>No Big Boss
>No Medusa
>No Protoman
>No Funky
>No Galacta Knight or Dark Meta Knight
>No others Pokemon Trainers
Echo fighters really are a wasted potential

Attached: 1559697354079.png (500x500, 218K)

Snake already has elements of BiBo though.

How would you feel if there's a Season 2 of DLC for Ultimate and at least one of the DLC was an Echo Fighter Pack? Say 6 characters in the pack, all of them from franchises without Echo Fighters in them, so as examples snatched from the ether we get Dragonite, Lord Fredrik, Black Shadow, Octolings, Jeanne, and Impa?

That's because Zero is cool and Proto Man is just Red X with a shield

Smash bros you need to get in here NOW-

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

Attached: hero6.png (640x640, 636K)

Okay who is this ban evading autist that spams discord links in literally every Smash thread
Did I miss something

FUCK OFF

Two unique newcomers for one third party series is a never ever, and Proto Man's just a cooler character. Out of possible Mega Man echoes he's the best pick.

MMZ Zero would be awesome but there's no way Sakurai could ever adapt his physics.

>You really think that when we got Roy back in 4 over Wolf and they choose Chrom over an echo like Dixie, Proto Man, or Shadow?

Not those characters specifically, but judging by how there's so few there were only so many echo choices they could've made.

>You really think Chrom didn't do well in the ballot?

Yes.

>Your obscure gamefaqs polls that vote up Bandana Dee aren't representative of the overall population

Online ballots have been proven to be more legitimate than you denies say.

>banjo in
>ridley and k rool are in
>the only indies represented are shovel knight and shanta, the 2 indie characters with the most pushing
>isaac literally the only assist trophy brought back

>Brawl and Sm4sh days
>everyone shits on clones
>they are called lazy and that they ""steal"" slots

>Sakurai renames them as "Echo Fighters"™
>the community won't stop begging for more echoes, to the point they will willingly settle to have long time requested characters being echoes
I'd say they did a pretty damn good job with them.
Oh, and also, fuck you.

if louie's in l'm good

FE characters should be repurposed like the Hero of DQ.
90% of the lords are swordsmen with a different tone of blue hair and a sword.

How about a Fire Emblem character that doesn't use a sword for once

I'd play Hector in a heartbeat

Play Robin then

Corrin is literally the only FE character in the roster that wasn't asked for and his/her game was incredibly popular.

Hector could be an echo of Ike really, or at least a semiclone. The way Ike swings a sword is reminiscent of an axe.

If a character is based off another character to the extent that it's blatantly obvious who that character was, then they're a clone and should have been an echo. Ganondorf is the only character that's even close to breaking away from that and he should have gotten a new moveset games ago anyway.
Arbitrary changes in hit angle and weight are so fucking easy to do that most Brawl character mods done by a single teenager have way more complex playstyle changes than any of the clones in Ultimate.

This picture is almost a sin.

>No others Pokemon Trainers

They wouldn't be an echo by that point but I would have loved a Blastoise/Charmeleon/Bulbasaur rival. Probably not exciting enough for most people to be worth the effort that would have taken but I would have been into that.

Smash bros you need to get in here NOW'

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

discord.gg/NF5Ysmz

Attached: hero5.png (640x640, 636K)

Lmao nope. Prove me wrong

Who would Captain Rainbow be an echo of? Falcon? He is so fucking different in game outside of aesthetics.

This. Sakurai's autism has prevented Ganondorf from actually representing Zelda for years now. Give his moveset to fucking Black Shadow already and give Ganondorf a lance and magic projectiles and other things he's had in the games.

>waaaaaaaaah liberties are NEVER taken in Smash movesets
He would be a Falcon echo you idiot.

Go suck a cock you cumslut

Hell no.

Attached: DlAw_IsV4AURWzW.jpg (1200x452, 185K)

Hot take: more characters should have gotten the Koopalings/Hero treatment.

Attached: images.jpg (299x168, 22K)

Attached: f7389f42172468ef042dc1d1f85d5651.jpg (340x500, 54K)

Thoughts?

Attached: Echo Fighters.png (672x220, 304K)

>tails without flying
>Knuckles without gliding and wall-climbing
>Ray without gliding
>Mighty without super armor and power drop
>Metal Sonic without Black Shield and V. Maximum Overdrive
No thanks

Attached: Screen-Shot-2013-06-11-at-9.16.04-PM-550x309.png (550x309, 202K)

Doc was never an Echo Fighter and moved further form being a clone in 4.

Not far enough though.

It's Mario with a doctor's outfit and pills, how far could he possibly be decloned?

Who is the true final boss of /mhg/

That's why he should have been an echo.

>Hector
Is never ever going to ever happen now that Edelgard is the new Ax Lord.

I thought of this before of Hero (but inspired by Alph)
There should be a bunch of FE lords that are just a recolor of Marth
Marth, Alm, Sigurd, Seliph, Leif, Lyn, Eirika and Lucina

Are you even trying

Attached: 1562952563673.gif (245x184, 1.32M)

Honestly since three houses was actually a good game I really wish they never added Corrin to Sm4sh and gave us based Dimitri or Edelgard as DLC

Not him but, I thought of this too and I think it would be great. In fact, I thought of the idea of Hero before Hero as well and was surprised they went with something like it. Shame they didn't do a composite lord like this though.

Melee characters aren't Echoes. It's as simple as that.

Yes, actually

Attached: 40D6245756004357B4FA96089D2B6FBF.gif (900x600, 266K)

Sounds like a good idea to me. Now I wish we had this.

Hilda to contrast the new, cheery Zelda
Blood Falcon to give Falcon a rival
Ms. Pac-Man which serves as a simple reskin with her own fruits and Namco cameos
Dixie Kong with DK's up-b but it continuously lets her float downward
Wildcard that no one else suggested Bowser's Brother with his Fireball special from Smash Four

This too. I was really hoping to see some of those cool concepts fleshed out further and give them some proper use.

Attached: 796861dd44a5814dd56b323e04736390.jpg (800x800, 134K)

Oh dont worry edelgard is fighter 4

They should've at least adapted D Samus's Assist Trophy attacks into Smash attacks or something.

I don’t get why Yea Forums struggles with this, if they don’t play nearly identically in their home series they aren’t echo fighter material. The purpose isn’t to be a last ditch effort for characters to get in as “well a clone is better than nothing”

>protoman echo with some of megamans old custom moves

Danger wrap was fun

How the fuck are you not banned?

He's ban evading, obviously.

Ken uses Ryu's skeleton actually. Not only is Pichu different, it has different hitboxes to boot.

In another time when we do have more than six echoes you people are going to bitch about them being wasted potential for unique characters.

This. Echoes using the Custom Moves would have been awesome.
Garchomp
Neutral B: Fire Fang
Side B: Dragon Rush
Up B: Rising Cyclone
Down B: Rock Smash

>all that paragraphs worth of "differences"
>when only it is truly applicable to Ken and only if you try to list them all

Without question

Attached: 1561351283339.png (500x486, 379K)

Simply using the same skeleton doesn't make him a 1:1 clone

So they're not echoes anymore?

Yes they are, even use the same idles. Dr. Mario meanwhile got a unique skeleton and even idles.

FINALLY, he's here for you!
It's the last member of the F E Crew!

>Alm and Celica
"No". Should have added someone soulful like Leaf.

literally every third party should have an echo, there's no reason they shouldn't

An Echo Fighter is whatever Sakurai says they are.

nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-on-smash-bros-ultimate-why-incineroar-was-chosen-and-more/

>The Street Fighter series’ Ken will also be making an appearance in Smash Ultimate. He’s different from Ryu in so many ways, one almost wonders whether or not we should even call him an Echo Fighter… Nope. I said he was, so he is.

Cringe.

>Malos as a Shulk Echo with altered Monado Art attributes
>Medusa as a Palutena Echo with Palutena's unused custom moves (B: Celestial Firework, B>: Angelic Missle, B^:Rocketjump, BV: Lightweight)
>Alph with Rock Pikmin instead of Purple Pikmin and Flying Pikmin instead of Poison Pikmin
>Black Shadow as a Ganondorf Echo with Falcon's Smash attacks
>Celica as Robin with Pichu style self-damage instead of Tome durability
>Octoling as Inkling with different models of weapons

>>Metal Sonic without Black Shield and V. Maximum Overdrive
Wouldn’t those be pretty easy fixes though? Just make Black Shield function like Zelda’s Neutral B but without the reflecting properties and allow him to slide with it a bit. Then Maximum overdrive can just function as a chargeable weaker Flare Blitz without the recoil and self harm. Then just give him Spin Dash for down B and simple flight move for Up-B. Then some of the normal attacks like F-Smash and D-Smash are altered to fit Metal Sonic.

I would've loved either of the boys

Attached: bff.png (1280x951, 985K)

Why couldn't they do what they did for DQ man and make the protags literal skins for FE

Dark Samus should have had a different Down-B and her damage should have been blue-fire based and she should have had an SA-X skin

Attached: 1546550768220.png (1920x1080, 100K)

I wish gooey got in as a kirby echo

she wasn't in 4. Ultimate sped up the game but didn't give Marth combos into tippers or better microspacing tools.

He's an exception to the rule because literally "he is the original clone".

Based. Not sure where all the Hilda hate has come from as of recent.

It's literally because Sakurai said so. He actually gave an interview saying Ken was so different from Ryu that he could be considered a unique character, but he called him an Echo Fighter because he wanted to.

>"all echo fighters must be 1:1 the original because Dark Pit and Lucina!"
>echo fighters added that have much greater differences from their bases, Sakurai even says an echo fighter is whatever he wants it to be
>"that doesn't count because X reason I made up!"

>reasons I made up
>literally only applies to the one guy who was known for being the original clone (or luigi)

why are smashfags incapable of context

Chrom says hello.

I like how they've made each starfox character have a somewhat similar moveset but they each play completely differently to warrant bringing them all back in subsequent games. Seriously, fuck cutfags who think they play anything alike.

Attached: 11015771.jpg (1000x706, 210K)

>oh no he has different up b
>despite using the same FS model
>despite using Roy's skeleton (hence the weird angles his arm would sometimes go in mid-animation)
>despite using Roy's animation

And you make it sound like a unique thing when Pitoo has a different final smash.

see Again, are you the same faggots who use the "AC cannot have fighters coz Sakurai said so but look at Villager hur hur" image when there's a clear context to the whole thing?

>alph
>not louie

ssbwiki.com/Chrom_(SSBU)#Differences_from_Roy

That's a hell of a lot of differences that affect his playstyle.

You mean "I don't see this character as taking part in fights" isn't clear?

I assume most of them are alternate costumes that got too finicky to be considered the same as their original characters, like Lucina. The exceptions are Dark Samus, who was previously an Assist Trophy, Chrom, who was obviously already made for Robin's Final Smash, and Ken, who has the label for mostly historical reasons.

Wolf is great but Falco is fucking boring and they should have done more with him. Why is his recovery worse than Fox's anyway? He's a fucking bird.

those are either aesthetic (flames) or due to minor stat tweaks tho (like lack of sweetspot)

He was robbed. ROBBED!

Attached: he_not_in.png (320x476, 340K)

The image was referring to how he can't conceive a moveset for him because Villager doesn't take fights. But now he made one based on that aspect. See also Ridley.

It's why people think "le epic trollman" when he isn't.

It's still enough changes to warrant a long list of things that directly affect playstyle. Compare that to Lucina, Dark Pit, and Daisy. The point is Echo Fighters can have more differences than just one minor tweak to a stat and still be Echo Fighters.

also someone else said earlier that if Ultimate Echo Fighters used Custom Moves from 4 then they wouldn't be Echo Fighters. To that I say, why? They're still using their base's moves.

His recovery isn't bad just predictable. To compensate his jump is the highest in the game and clearly you're not comboing with him because thats his selling point.

No, Ridley was because Sakurai thought making him smaller would make him not be Ridley anymore. Pure autism thinking.

well its a matter of opinion but you gotta learn to combo with Falco because thats why you play him over the other two.

Always relevant.

Attached: why doc is not an echo final.png (2022x2050, 1.34M)

>No Proto Man echo
>No Shadow echo
>No Jeanne echo
>No Liquid Snake echo with funny British voice acting
>No Funky Kong/Donkey Kong Jr. echo
>No Galacta Knight eco
>No Hector echo
>Incineroar instead of King from Tekken
>Joker doesn’t swap Personas or do any moves outside of Eiga.
>Still no Porky Means Business remix
>No Travis Touchdown
>No Mike Tyson from Mike Tyson’s Punch-Out!!!
Lil disappointing desu

>Chrom and Ken are the only good echos
Roy didn't get replaced to the point of him might as well not being in the game like Marth and Ryu

Ken has the same weight, but different movement speed. He is the most dissimilar echo, and really confuses the whole concept, but he's still not as different from his counterpart as any non-echo clone is. Although even acknowledging I still think the only reason Doc isn't an echo is because they didn't want roster slot #1 to be followed by #1ε

Nah that's not really my point. Wolf feels like his character. He feels sharper and more brutal than fox does to the extent that his similarities are forgivable. Falco doesn't feel like Falco. He's got good jumps and better air speed because he's a bird I guess but everything else just feels like arbitrary changes on top of Fox and a few animation changes he picked up over the years. Just doesn't feel as satisfying to me.

>>Celica as a weaker Robin
just say you want her to be shit, man

Joker would be the lamest unique addition in the franchise's history if not for his stage.

reminder that
>No Melee characters are considered Echo Fighters because they were remade for Smash 4/Ultimate and have a different skeleton
>Echo Fighters have to basically be able to function as a palette swap before they can add any unique shit on top of that, then they have as much new shit as Sakurai feels like adding

I feel like echo fighters in this game were just cut content. Like they made models and animations for these characters but didn't have time to finish them so they just made a few minor tweaks and stuck them in anyway. I think we'll see significant changes to most of them and chrom cut in the next game.

Custom moves are so far altered I'd argue.

And what, Lucina and Dark Pit's minor tweaks greatly affect their gameplay but we're just talking about all the objective changes rather than what they entail.

Robin's concept was so shit they redid it with Hero and made it way better, then gave the character two additional gimmicks.
>Dude lets make a character whose specials and strong smash/aerial attacks go on a cool down lmao
>Meanwhile Ness, Lucas, Belmonts, Links, Snake, ROB, and Hero are out there spamming projectiles with reckless abandon

Let's update this comparison image by including the most echoey of the Echo Fighters.

Attached: v2.jpg (2965x2048, 1.56M)

honestly I think they should just make every fighter their own number instead of doing the whole epsilon symbol

I mean you say that but there are people who do think he isn't ridley anymore (ironically they proceed to post Project M garbage which doesn't even look and feel like ridley at all)

Would they get numbers?

Richter, Daisy, and Dark Samus are more similar to their counterparts than Lucina.

I honestly think Richter and Daisy are the most echoey. Followed by Dark Pit and Dark Samus, then Lucina and Chrom, and then honorary echo Ken.

And all of them are fucking retarded too. If size was all that mattered with what makes a character a character then the Kirby trio and Olimar were raped so hard by making them larger than their canon selves.

Which is funny because the PM Ridley was tiny as fuck too. I actually think Sakurai got it right that Ridley still is big but they made him hunch. Though I suppose he sees the boss Ridleys the more accurate size. Is there a size comparison pic for Ult Ridley and boss Brawl Ridley?

The things I do for you people.

Attached: v3.jpg (3954x1866, 1.49M)

>Richter
Genius move to introduce both characters, and people still complain about Doc.

I think the most objective ranking I could make would be
>1. Daisy
Slight height difference. Their turnips used to have different properties but this was patched out.
2. Dark Samus
Her altered animations make for slightly different frame data
3. Richter
His fire doesn't detonate bombs and kills red Pikmin. This is the murkiest ranking depending on how much of a difference you think that is compared to Dark Samus. However I'm ranking him as more different because Richter's differences seem to be of greater importance to match ups than Dark Samus'.
4. Dark Pit
Electro Shock and arrow properties
5. Lucina
Slightly different height and sword property changes. This means that all her moves are technically different.
6. Chrom
The same sword property changes + Aether
7. Ken
The only echo with different movement speed, has attacks entirely unique to him

Haven't found one, but I did find that Bayonetta is 8 feet 2 inches tall, which means she should tower over every other character in the roster except for Ganondorf, Bowser, and Ridley.

Attached: super_smash_bros_characters_height_chart_part16_by_sahoo64-dcyg2bi.png (1600x1171, 371K)

>duurrrrrrr doesn’t count

yeah and olimar is like one inch tall, some liberties have to be taken

keep up, lowtest

I keep forgetting Cloud is a manlet

Who the fuck would travis touchdown be an echo if?

They're a waste of time and I honestly just prefer custom/clothing homages rather than full blown pallet swaps. Sakurai has a fetish for doing pointless things though so we keep getting lazy time wasted bullshit nobody cares about after a week (rosterfags aren't people) instead of stuff that can actually improve the game

Attached: 1558010643477.png (440x537, 19K)

The sad part is that a perfectly fine character can be made from the limitations Ken and Chrom are bound to. I don't mind not having Doc's giant ass changelist.

>Dr. Mario
>different skeleton

>Corrin is 1.85m
what the fuck

>different idle animation "except when holding a light item"
doesn't this shit still apply to characters like Yoshi (who revert to Brawl idle animations) and Lucas (who reverts to Lucas idle animations)?

Japan loves their short males.

isn't anything above 1.7m considered tall there?

practically everyone who has revamped idles

He was literally lumped in next to Lucina and Dark Pit on the character select, the other two blatant clones in that game.

Yeah but in the transition to Ultimate he got some nice changes.

Anyone above 1,80m is considered tall in Europe as well. But that may be mostly because the female average is at 1,60m

That's Sakurai for you.

ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSB4)#Changes_from_Super_Smash_Bros._Melee
ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSB4)#Differences_from_Mario

Smash 4 is where he got all of the things he was supposed to have in Melee that differentiated him from Mario, changing him to a semi-clone. Sakurai in his great wisdom decided to lump him in with Lucina and Dark Pit only because "lol clones". Ultimate took the changes even further.

ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSBU)#Changes_from_Super_Smash_Bros._4
ssbwiki.com/Dr._Mario_(SSBU)#Differences_from_Mario

I wish Charizard got an echo fighter for like the three people who liked Solo Zard. Just give his echo a different Down Special like how Chrom has a different Up Special. Also Medusa and Alph were missed opportunities in my opinion.
>Inb4 Louie
Louie should be unique.

I wish she could've had a scattershot move, and maybesomething using her clones as well. It could've been cool if she had somemoves referencing that she's actually Metroid Prime like a tentalce grab instead of the grapple beam. I was also hoping for her final form with the visible skull and see-through skin as an alt or taunt. Its hard to be mad about since I'm glad she's in at all, but there's a lot of cool shit that can be done with her.

Charizard's Echo wouldn't need a different Down B since Charizard lost Rock Smash, just give it to the Echo. As for who it can be, you have the choice of Dragonite, Flygon, Garchomp, and Haxorus.

I felt like there should of been more. What's the point of making characters that are the same or almost the same if you are only going to add 6?

Also, I think Dark Samus, Ken, and Chrom are great additions and better echos because they have differences. Ken feels so different, I'm surprised they even made him an echo. Chrom balances out Roy's sword, making his playstyle safer, and also aether makes his off stage game completely different. Dark Samus is lighter, making them just feel different in an indescribable way.

Personally I would have probably chosen Flygon.

>Dragonite, Flygon, Garchomp, and Haxorus.
None of these Pokémon could echo Charizard due to how their body types drastically differ. I guess there could be a case for Flygon as it’s the closest to Charizard’s build.

You say this as if Sakurai hasn't changed the proportions of characters before. And do we have to parade all of the Echo fighters with lots of differences from their bases again?

Dark Samus has exactly as many differences as Richter and Daisy do.

I don't get why switching wasn't mapped to another input like shield + B while all 3 were given new moves.

Don't argue with the Garchomp fag. He does that in every thread about echo fighters.

Echo's was also Sakurai's way of giving hope to a pick people wanted without actually having to put in the effort to make it a good playable character

>You say this as if Sakurai hasn't changed the proportions of characters before.
He’s done this only for clones, all the echoes we currently have share the exact same skeleton.
>And do we have to parade all of the Echo fighters with lots of differences from their bases again?
Most of those differences are some minor stat changes. The only echoes with major differences are Chrom (taking Ike’s up-b) and Ken (Who has new inputs and moves).

You've never explained why it's so horrible or evil for an Echo of Charizard to exist, all you do is cry about necks and tails and wings, things the Echoes all possess or can use something else to mimic in the case of wings.

Based

It doesn't even matter that Black Shadow is irrelevant, everyone loves Falcon's aesthetics and playstyle and a villain to pair him up against would be instantly beloved.