Why are they so much better at picking music artists than picking actual devs?

>the last game with an overall great OST was Sonic Unleashed
I get that the current sonicfag narrative is to shit on Colors at every chance possible, but you're an idiot if you think you're going to convince people that its soundtrack wasn't fantastic.

Attached: 1565640473948.png (384x289, 232K)

Is Colors a fun game overall? Is the Wii or DS version better? I heard it’s like Rush which I enjoyed.

>I get that the current sonicfag narrative is to shit on Colors at every chance possible
Fucking why is that a thing?

Both versions are worth playing, imo. If you enjoyed Rush then you might prefer the DS version since it's essentially Rush 3.

Not him but even as somebody who hates boostshit I respect it's visual design and music a lot, I'd say it's almost worth a playthrough for that alone.

A shame it's also the most 2d-centricd boost game, which is my biggest issue with them, since the 2d gameplay in the boost games is awful

sega gives them all the new guys and moved everyone else worth a damn onto yakuza
the ds version is basically sonic rush 3 and the wii version is a mediocre 2.5d platformer with some 3d hallways

Attached: 1563228871937.gif (499x499, 178K)

Sweet I’ll check it out

Lost World and Forces have 10/10 ost's and that's a fact.

I usually don't like Buttrock but for some reason I am kept drawn into Shadow's themes throughout the series.

DS is a straight Rush sequel, Wii game is not quite the same, more like a "dumbed down" version of Unleashed, but much better since it doesn't have the werehog.

revisionist thinking, people now say it was only good by comparison as it came out after four years of shit with the only bright spot being half of unleashed. Given that Generations on PC means you can basically play a much better Unleashed (including fan ports of all of the unleashed day levels), people now say "colors was just a lesser unleashed, go get generations and play the mods" and then it sort of evolved from there.

Because all the kids who grew up with Unleashed over a decade ago are upset that Colors got a better reception from reviewers, and idiotically blame it for the current state of the series instead of blaming Kishimoto, who is the actual problem.

Attached: 1541184556121.jpg (572x621, 104K)

>sega gives them all the new guys and moved everyone else worth a damn onto yakuza
Why is this board so buttmad over Yakuza being successful? You all complain that they don't make anything except Yakuza but how many of you went out and bought Valkyria 4 or Shining Resonance?

Oh boy. A thread about Sega music
youtube.com/watch?v=6ZDW2reFsOI
youtube.com/watch?v=yMZg9F4j7-A
youtube.com/watch?v=ZHuMSxhDjLY
youtube.com/watch?v=hOerurDNo9Q
youtube.com/watch?v=NKxdju1NpMQ
youtube.com/watch?v=9iLPqWc-4YY
youtube.com/watch?v=LX6zfIlOPpQ
youtube.com/watch?v=YI9LaWBUpOw
youtube.com/watch?v=grKBNcMRyjQ
youtube.com/watch?v=xsXyRIohm6Y
youtube.com/watch?v=hUAMmRI6l8k
youtube.com/watch?v=J4-5agpTwbU

IN HIS WORLDDDDDDD WHERE I BELONG

It's incredible how despite coming out in 2008, nothing in the entire Sonic universe has topped Unleashed in terms of graphics
Not Colors, not Generations, not Lost World, not Forces, not even the fucking movie, none of it.

Why did Unleashed look so good and why has nothing topped it? It’s baffling

Because making good music is easier than making good video games

Attached: 1564849117313.jpg (1080x1266, 85K)

None of that is particularly good. I'd rather take Crush 40 instead, any day.

Yeah, but you don't have to say it like that. I wish I could compose for video games.

who said i was mad?

Because you buy it thinking it's a 3D game and then find out that it's actually mostly in 2D and the vast majority of the 3D parts are just you running along straight paths with little to no interaction

Seething

Most of the Avatar music is cheating. Sonic's is shit and Classics is cancer compared to this. It's because the Japs wanted this to be an OC Sonic character game, not a Sonic game to begin with, so they shilled the fuck out of making the OC be the selling point

But even then, this is nothing compared to 06 or Unleashed. One of the issues I think people come from this is all of the use of Electric instead of have verity like in SA1 for instance, which I kinda agree with..

That's fair. SA1 has some of the best level music in the series.
That said, I think Sonic Forces has a very musically strong main theme and villain theme, as edgy as it is.

Crush 40 is band with one of the head boys developers.
Stupid

I keep reading this but still don’t understand what you’re trying to say. The guy from Crush 40 is the son of one of the developers? The guy from Crush 40 is also a developer? What?

For someone that loved Galaxy's music, I just don't like Sonic with it. It's just a matter of style over substance. Mario has always hit a cord with music that sounded "whimsical" to me, and orchestra music ties into that beautifully. Meanwhile Sonic has always been about action, or, if the music isn't about him, it tied with the stage. Colors music only worked narrative speaking, which only rides on the fact its in space. Mario didn't just make music that tied into space, it also sounded like music that defined Mario himself based on past games.

Compare it to say, Dark Gaia's theme in Unleashed, that was both mystical and defined Sonic's character. It sounded like a Sonic theme with a narrative. Compared to the classics being a theme that went with the stage first before the character at the time, I can't really remember anything from Sonic Colors outside of the title screen, Tropical Resort and that one candy level, but only because it's kinda obnoxious sounding to me with a not so bad sounding electric gaiter rift added in.

>people now say "colors was just a lesser unleashed,
I said this the day Colors came out and beat it day one. If you weren't a person that got triggered by the Werehog and actually played all of Unleashed, it's inferior to Unleashed. It's only appraisal is that it's a decent attempt at boost gameplay on Nintendo's shitty hardware, but even then they slowed Sonic down to compensate the system.

Not that user, but I think attaching a soundtrack's quality to their game or how they fit is unfair. Sonic's always had music that sounds great in and/or out of context. My all-time favorite Sonic OST is Jacques' 3D Blast OST, which is close to the least Sonic sounding Sonic OST out there.

Retard

>Why did Unleashed look so good
To save face from 06
why has nothing topped it?
Because SEGA got buttmad about it being considered in the first place, only to feel validated being a waste of money after it was critically bashed on by reviewers.

They're retarded. It has some kinda shitty acts and the bosses are still lame (by Sonic standards, and Sonic bosses generally suck), but it's a Sonic game generally free of bullshit alternate gameplay styles like the Werehog, or Rogue in SA2, or Silver, or Classic Sonic (who'd be a lot better with some actual attempt at physics).
Colors is largely solid.

Unleashed's day stages are dramatically better than the levels in Colors by far. Like, it's not even a fair comparison. Unleashed has much, much, much better level design (that's also less 2D focused).

It's much harder making good games than music.

That's why I can never enjoy Colors to the fullest. Unleashed is just unfortunate wasting everyone's time with the Werehog, but since I grew up on GoW games I was able to tolerate it, so I lucked out. Of course if I could have just had all boost levels I wouldn't complain 100%, but I think I just had it better than the people that just couldn't get past it in Unleashed.

hey fuck you Sonic Runners had a pretty good soundtrack

Oh dark the darkness that dozes in the dusk
Throw it all away!
No-one can break you, nobody can tear you
You live an endless life forever
Oh dark the darkness that dozes in the dusk
Throw it all away!
You see a light wherever you go
You have to face it again and again

Good for you.
youtube.com/watch?v=EwsXNz2jYXc

>sonic runners

??

Why the FUCK is the movie not made in this style

youtu.be/3fTi-U3qWVk

Americans hate CGI movies unless it's low effort casual pandering trash.

Is this a Sega thread?
WHEN THE FUCK IS PUYO PUYO GOING TO GET A NEW ENTRY THAT ISN'T SHIT GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

>Dude what the fuck are you talking about
>My personal opinion is SO important you should have known all other opinions are trash

Take your meds, kid.

Colors might've ruined modern Sonic forever, but it still had a kickass soundtrack
youtu.be/Zfc5twxGjZQ
youtu.be/o9z3bK1nQ_Y
youtu.be/Aq0QE11vEWE

youtube.com/watch?v=v1rUHB6HA8s
youtube.com/watch?v=EUUBfr1fyt0
youtube.com/watch?v=bLDJwTYoGjo
youtube.com/watch?v=0lVgL3Wq0x4
youtube.com/watch?v=PvqqlOVf5yk
youtube.com/watch?v=kZZqmdc-mXM
youtube.com/watch?v=0F-hJjD3XAs
youtube.com/watch?v=-4lShwY8n3U

This is fucking Disney shit. How the hell did Sega not make stuff like this anymore?

This could've been the movie we're getting now. Absolute wasted potential.

Without clicking this I’m gonna guess it’s the opening cinematic from Unleashed. Am I right?

It's crazy because this was just the intro. The ENTIRE game had excellent dialog and story telling in between all of the bad warehog levels.

>that puyo puyo pachislot machine that has better visuals than any of the actual game
youtu.be/rxa4dpZPdxE

Attached: lucymad.png (496x700, 818K)

Unleashed was high budget damage control following 06, they put a shit ton of money into it.

Then it got disastrous reviews, so they stopped trying and Sonic has been on a B budget ever since.

>this one was for the 15th anniversary
>even the 20th anniversary pachinko machine was lower budget
Honestly, the new Puyo team just doesn't fucking care about the series even when selling it out to the gambling industry.
youtu.be/PIkGIYKQGgc

Sad

youtu.be/Jx-FXccJe6g

I'm right there with you man, this is my number 1 favourite music track out of all Sonic games to date:

youtube.com/watch?v=69uzOgkgN_w

Forces OST was dope as fuck. Kill yourself.

Excellent taste
Act 2 is mine.

>For someone that loved Galaxy's music, I just don't like Sonic with it
What is this even supposed to mean? Most of Galaxy's soundtrack was purposefully orchestral, which isn't the case for Colors, since it only has a few orchestral pieces used for menus and the final boss. Honestly Colors' soundtrack is just as varied as Unleashed's or SA1's.

>Compare it to say, Dark Gaia's theme in Unleashed, that was both mystical and defined Sonic's character. It sounded like a Sonic theme with a narrative.
This kind of shit is why people make fun of unleashedfags. "Sonic theme with a narrative", what the hell are you even trying to say here? Dark Gaia's theme is a generic orchestral track just like phase 1 of Colors' final boss. There's no difference.

Attached: 1558767915017.jpg (300x449, 106K)

>Dark Gaia's theme is a generic orchestral track just like phase 1 of Colors' final boss. There's no difference.
Whoa, now. I disagree with the guy (I was the one that went on the tangent about 3D Blast), but that track is kickass.
youtube.com/watch?v=mdDwqJiYO6c
It helps that Endless Possibilities is an excellent vocal tune, but that orchestral mix is genuinely incredible. I get people's love for it.

>Why did Unleashed look so good
Because they prioritized graphics over performance. Colors onward they did the opposite. I don't see an issue with their change in priorities, honestly. Faster-paced games should aim for higher, fluid performance rates.

He said Dark Gaia's theme, not Perfect Dark Gaia's theme. But in the case where he WAS referring to the latter then phase 2 of Colors' final boss is the same shit. It's just an orchestral remix of the game's vocal theme. Again, there's no difference.

>since it only has a few orchestral pieces used for menus and the final boss.
That's likely why I dislike it. Most people proclaim that's the highlight of the entire track, when it really isn't, and all of the other tracks were nothing special compared to other games in the series. Namely 06.

>what the hell are you even trying to say here?
I'm saying Super Sonic saving the world that also sounds like a track that fits being at the center of the planet. Like how in SA2, Green Forest sounded like a races to the finish to get the hell out of there, which is practically Sonic incarnate, or White Forest doing the same but with even more obvious animals in the wildlife elements added in.

Sonic in the classics was level identiy, Modern Sonic was mostly known for character identity. What I'm saying is, Colors' identity is lacking. For something called "Tropical Resort" guitars isn't the first thing I'd think of, which is my point. It's may sound good, but compared to other songs in the series, it doesn't do much to express itself, at least with the give name. As a carnival theme park, it maybe works better with that in mind.

Even has more character put into what it belongs to (electric sounds because it's in a Eggman facility, with fast tempo because you're trying to escape it)

>He said Dark Gaia's theme, not Perfect Dark Gaia's theme.
I meant Perfect Dark Gaia's theme, my bad. Slip of the mind.

>Colors onward they did the opposite.
Is that a joke? The only game that runs at 60fps on console is Lost World. Hell, Generations had a God damn 3D glassed mode included for some dumb ass reason.

Act 2 comes close for me, but I prefer Act 1 myself due to the greater piano emphasis, and it has my preferred intro of both acts; I love the fade-in piano.

Act 1 also has extra relax-factor to me, due to the different percussion.

Well tbf of that anons post Colors was capped to 30fps afaik, while Unleashed was 30 on Xbox but 60 on PS3. And since most played it on PS3, it would lag like shit the most noticeably on that system, while Colors was tailored to not be set at a high FPS to begin with.

>Is that a joke?
No? Colors and Generations both ran at 30 fps, but had more stable framerates than Unleashed, and in Gens' case it was because they toned down some of the graphical effects carried over from Unleashed. Then Lost World and Forces were designed to run at 60 fps on consoles, aside from the switch version of Forces needing to be limited to 30 fps (among other changes) for hardware reasons.

Either literal autism, or you seriously misread his post. Probably the former, since he wasn't saying anything remotely to what you accused him of

I get what you mean, I prefer the pulsing synths of Act 2 and the slightly lighter tone. What a difference a slight change in key can make, huh?
youtube.com/watch?v=Wn2YxjPxnuk
There's this moment I fucking love, speaking of the percussion. It's subtle, but around 1:38 when the bassline kicks in, the drums pick up in intensity JUST a little, not too much to add unneeded energy to such a laidback track, but not too little to be unnoticeable. It's a very smart shift.

Unleashed hit 30fps regularly. It struggled in werehog stages, and some sections in Adabat but the game was able to maintain its framerates for a majority of its Sonic Only experience.

It was meant to be sort of an apology game for the travesty that was 06. High production values, tons of legitimate talented developers, and an actual drive to make something great. Even though the end product is just a decent game at at best, every pixel of it is filled to the brim with effort and passion.

But after mediocre critical reception, Sega most likely saw no reason to invest so much in the series, and Sonic Team probably just straight up gave up trying. If their absolute best efforts are met with an overwhelming meh, why should they even try?

That's not to say of the talented blood that jumped ship to the likes of Nintendo and Square Enix, where they get a better deal, an their games don't get collectielly shat on by the community and critics alike.

Yeah, basically the literal only reason Sonic doesn't just look like Unleashed graphically is solely because they cripple the engine for Nintendo systems. The fact the HE1 couldn't even run on PS3 without frame dips meant making a new HE wasn't going to work well even on the Switch, which it clearly didn't. SEGA really make software catered best for the PS/Xbox and then dummy it down for Nintendo, which only became a thing with Lost World. Before then they'd just remake an entirely new game just for Nintendo's hardware.

Only on the Xbox version. The PS3 was set to 60FPS.

Unleashed PS4/PC port when? I'd like a stable 60fps (and 1080p for that matter)

Who the fuck played the PS3 version?

Speaking of subtleties, I really like how Act 2 builds upon Act 1, by slightly increasing the amount of times the vocal chants are used, yet doesn't overdo it. :-)

The problem here is, they don't learn from WHY all that effort was for nothing, which was critcally stated WHY, which led to Colors. The effort only matters when you actually have something solid to make it worth it, but SEGA is the worse company for this kind of thing, they don't know what fans really want. If anyone seriously complained the game was "too HD" back in a time where graphics fagging was at its peak, you were a retarded minority. The problem was the Werehog was a bad idea. It was Sonic Team proving to people they just can't make a straight forward Sonic game with ABSOLUTELY no bullshit half baked side gimmick. That's why Colors was made, and loved so massively at the time, as people claim every time you hear them talk about the game.

The same people that played 06. No one plays Xbox Sonic games, no one.

>That's likely why I dislike it.
But you just claimed to dislike Colors' soundtrack because it was too much like Galaxy's, which apparently doesn't fit Sonic? But now you dislike it because it's not enough like Galaxy's? What?
>Sonic in the classics was level identiy, Modern Sonic was mostly known for character identity.
>As a carnival theme park, it maybe works better with that in mind.
Then you're basically just admitting that Colors went the "level identity" route like the classics instead having its soundtrack be designed around the game's narrative (which can also be applied to a majority of Unleashed's soundtrack as well). Additionally, Tropical Resort is a futuristic mall/carnival in space with flying cars. To say the music doesn't fit the level's name is unfair seeing as it clearly wasn't composed with just the name in mind.

You're overthinking it entirely. Nintendo has nothing to do with it. Unleashed ran like garbage on both PS3 and 360, so they had to tone down shit for future games because it looked TOO good. To compare it to an entirely different series, it's like AssCreed Unity to Syndicate (and later games). Unity ran like absolute garbage at launch, and still looks objectively superior to what's come after. Consoles just are all garbage

>Unleashed hit 30fps regularly.
The fact that it didn't maintain that 30fps the entire time is why latter games look worse, though. Gens rarely dips below 30 fps, because they dialed back on some of the HE's graphical effects in order to maintain more solid performance.

>UNLEASHED RAN LIKE SHIT!
When's the last time you numbuts played Unleashed? I'm not claiming it was a flawless experience but its dips were not a constant thing
>The same people that played 06. No one plays Xbox Sonic games, no one.
Going to need some hard fucking data for this one. Especially considering that Xbox was the dominant console for a majority of that generation, and the PS3 version of 06 didn't even come out at the same time.

Yeah. I like how the whole track (on both acts) is kind of a variation on the main theme. The main piano melody starts with the same interval between the first two notes as the title theme before going down instead of coming back up on the repeat. The whole soundtrack is full of little nods to that motif and they're all very clever.
youtu.be/f035kGmpdW4?t=102
Might be my favorite of the callbacks. It's so soft and sweet over this really daunting, short string ostinato.
God, this soundtrack is genius.

Sega putting the majority of Sonic's audience on Nintendo hardware since 6th gen sure bit them in the ass in the long run didn't it?

Is this a Sega/Sonic Team music thread? Does anyone else feel like there was something magical about the tracks they made? Vocal tracks specially, like damn.

youtube.com/watch?v=osS8xrJ-pcc
youtube.com/watch?v=yvef7waXCxY
youtube.com/watch?v=wWnzfA9AqrA
youtube.com/watch?v=1oUZlwmqqv0
youtube.com/watch?v=6ZDW2reFsOI
youtube.com/watch?v=ZHlrHvt1dUE

Attached: 1537464609747.jpg (224x225, 5K)

If only they didn't force in that fucking werehog, it'd all be different. Goddamn it.

>UNLEASHED RAN LIKE SHIT!
Certain areas did, though. It's been years since I played Unleashed, but I specifically remember parts of daytime Adabat and Empire City's hub dipping hard in framerate.

>But you just claimed to dislike Colors' soundtrack because it was too much like Galaxy's
No, I didn't say that, I was just making a comparison with another space theme game released around the same time. I was mostly going on about the soundtrack was lacking identity to me, compared to other Sonic songs, whether or not they were orchestrated, which is why I compared it to 06 or Unleashed, which did the same thing in areas.

>Then you're basically just admitting that Colors went the "level identity" route like the classics
If it did it seriously wasn't rememberable. Even Heroes had far more synergy with level identity then Colors. The only thing I can remember from the music is how it was filled to the brime with electric guitars like SA2's rock based guitars, but without any cohesion to identify itself as either something defining Sonic, or defining itself. Like I said, maybe it's because it's actually music meant to sound like you're in a galactic theme park, but when Casino Night or Carnival Night, or even Bingo Highway is more rememberable with that theming in mind, I just don't think it did a good job.

The Werehog was a thing due to boost shit being a resource hog that they needed an alternative gameplay style in order to not finish the game in less than 5 hours. This has happened even with Colors and Gens, culminating to Forces.

When based SEGA will actually hire this man?
It's already been three years since this proof of concept was shown to the world, at least it's gonna be released this year with 6 different zones.

Attached: 585.jpg (1024x576, 76K)

>and the PS3 version of 06 didn't even come out at the same time.
I'd like to see how this happened when the point of the reason 06 became the trashfire it became, was because it was originally planned to be for the PS3 first, then ported to Xbox until Microsoft got buttmad about it and forced them to make it day 1 with the PS3 release.

Absolutely. All because Sony to them back in the 90s wasn't "professional" enough. And now look where we are. Elitism is the worst thing ever for companies, and SEGA's teaming up with their rival was the worse idea ever from them.

The werehog segments were the only sections where fluctuating frame rate was a constant issue and that's because the game filled the screen with more enemies than the game could handle and there were a ton of particle effects going on whenever attacks would fly out or connect.
The Sonic frame rate drops were not regular occurrence. The worst it would get is in Adabat for 2-3 sections. A direct comparison with Generations would be Chemical Plant Zone where it would chug for a section. Bringing up the PS3 version is pointless since the PS3 was always the worst version across the board that generation.

>SEGA HIRE THIS MAN

Hire the programmer, not Lange.

That's why they should have had just tried one more time with the Adventure gameplay but just kept Sonic as the only playable character. If it was anything like SA2, that would have been the best case scenario to fix your shit in and save face from the trash that was 06.

except the meme doesn't apply because he's not just recreating something with high res high poly graphics, and introducing an actual undone design concept.

It's his vision tho.

>It's already been three years since this proof of concept was shown to the world
What? A 3D Sonic tech demo? We get those every year. Utopia was the only one that decided to put original assets with nostalgia bait visuals instead of recycling.
But of course, no one remembers Blitz Sonic now.

At least Colors kept the same style of gameplay throughout. I'd rather have some gimmicky side acts thrown in than making me play a completely different game essentially.

And honestly people forget that Sonic games started out being very short. They need to realize that how fast you can finish the game doesn't matter if the game is fun. Good gameplay will give players incentive to replay the game, going back and getting everything, etc. Not locking the players out of content until they collect enough shit.

>at least it's gonna be released this year with 6 different zones.
lol

Attached: 1563845628165.png (466x575, 323K)

>introducing an actual undone design concept.
Are you serious? Christ, slap some "LOOK GUYS! "LOW" POLY!" graphics on something that's been done before and you guys are just ready to eat it up.

Attached: 909c6b1043dcbc3dc2457276fcf50680.jpg (389x407, 70K)

Dreams, Dreams in particular is bliss in audio form.

>Blitz Sonic
Why do you fags keep bringing this shit up? That shit played like ass, and the modern day version of it; the Bumper Engine, is just as trash too. Hedgephysics compared to how smooth most modern 3D fan tech demos like Islands and Project Hero makes that shit look like a joke.

Attached: 1501025043658.jpg (350x365, 42K)

>The werehog segments were the only sections where fluctuating frame rate was a constant issue and that's because the game filled the screen with more enemies than the game could handle and there were a ton of particle effects going on whenever attacks would fly out or connect.
>The Sonic frame rate drops were not regular occurrence. The worst it would get is in Adabat for 2-3 sections.
What exactly is your argument here? On console Generations maintains better performance than Unleashed. That's a fact. And why? Because the devs wanted the game to have a more stable framerate than before, so they dumbed down some of the graphical effects. And then they continued this mentality into the future by making sure their games ran at 60 fps on consoles. Maybe if they only wanted to aim for 30fps, then Forces might have ended up looking better than Unleashed, but they didn't, so it doesn't. That's it.
>Bringing up the PS3 version is pointless since the PS3 was always the worst version across the board that generation.
I said nothing about the PS3 version.

>hire the guys implementing the designer's ideas, not the designer behind said ideas

Attached: 1561342915958.gif (240x266, 3.86M)

okay, show me another game engine that''s a 1:1 copy of the physics from the genesis 2D sonic games, I'll wait.

Attached: Sem título.png (583x648, 584K)

It's a concept that's been around and improved on. Utopia didn't innovate or invent shit. GHP literally came out a few weeks before Utopia, but those dumbasses ruined their marketing value by having god awful placeholder graphics that made the entire thing look like trash.

Why would you want that shit?

youtu.be/fp-CfgwqF3c

Criminally underrated

It's not about who cames first but who did better.

How was Sonic Forces, user?

Sega tasks you with directing the next 3D sonic console game.
How do (You) go about it?

Attached: 1550822979571.jpg (680x1020, 67K)

Because Utopia is actually fun to play

>better at picking music artists
Wasn't the Forces theme by Simple Plan or some shit?

My argument is that the game doesn't perform as badly as you guys are claiming. You're making it sound like the game regularly dips to 15-20fps. A majority of its experience is stable, it's low points have no direct comparable in Generations or future games.

Utopia isn’t fun at all. Just like Forces

>They need to realize that how fast you can finish the game doesn't matter if the game is fun.
I agree with this, but this is getting harder and harder to justify as years go on, and in 3D games especially. It's just a common bias to think 3D > 2D to kids, and 3D is meant to feel like a immersive experience, which doesn't work well in short games. OoT or Mario Galaxy wasn't games you could just beat day one, aseptically as a newcomer, and yet Sonic can be beat in 2 hours. That's retardedly too short for Sonic, regardless if his gimmick is going fast.

This is why I really think Sonic's flaw is thinking he has to be "get to the goal as fast as possible" is ruining his potential. They making gimmicks to go next to Sonic really is a meets to an end kind of thing, but the issue was this; they never polish things to be as good as the main experience and ESPECIALLY, force you TO play the gimmicks instead of making it optional.

Not Sega, but Klonoa had a lot of great moody, dream-like tracks.

youtube.com/watch?v=S1XwmILHOYk

The designer didn't design anything groundbreaking, and his level design is mostly garbage, carried by the programmer's ability to deliver an movement system that actually feels fun and good. The common complaint about Utopia is how shitty the level design is.

Sonic Utopia wasn't even a fucking game, user. Was a proof of concept, more specifically how Sonic can be a 3D platformer (collect-a-ton)

>My argument is that the game doesn't perform as badly as you guys are claiming.
Then you're missing the whole point of the discussion. It doesn't matter how "badly" Unleashed's performance really was, the point is that future games look worse than Unleashed because they were made to maintain overall higher performance on consoles than Unleashed did.

>This is why I really think Sonic's flaw is thinking he has to be "get to the goal as fast as possible" is ruining his potential.
It really is. I'd like an attempt at Sonic being just a platformer. Lost World had some good ideas but they ultimately fucked it up with plenty of mediocre to shitty ones.

They kinda did that with Colors too, making it a blocky puzzle platformer and it was fucking terrible. Just leave the fucking slow platforming to Mario. His fucking name isnt slownic. Sonic's the name and speeds his game.

>Was a proof of concept, more specifically how Sonic can be a 3D platformer (collect-a-ton)
>collect-a-thon
Utopia's demo is a glorified test level made to mess around in. It's openness isn't an attempt at seeing what a Sonic collect-a-thon would be like, it's just to give the player a bunch of different level design scenarios they can smoothly transition between in an open area. The final game won't resemble the openness of the demo at all.

>Utopia didn't innovate or invent shit.
It didn't. But it didn't have too. It literally just did a basic polish of what SA1 should have played like, but with a bigger playing feiled instead of having Mario 64 sized level design. And no, this argument they couldn't just have bigger levels is retarded, if Banjo Kazooie and OoT could do it without much issue outside of frame rate. But that was on the 64. What is the Dreamcast's excuse? Oh, maybe making the game with real life textures for a real life looking game, might have been a knock against having bigger scaled levels to begin with.

But back to the point. Utopia was just a simple retooling of SA1, to make it think with the idea it could play more like the classics if given better hardware. While BlitzSonic was a poorer example lacking proper polish, with GPH being just proto Bumper Engine. Anyone saying GHP was good is a fucking idiot. The level design ALONE was hot trash and goes again the visual design of a Sonic game. The game itself barely feels fluid because it's really a hodgepodge of elements from every era of Sonic without much thought put to make it balanced and polished.

he also said there would be a demo at SAGE 2018.

In general, I feel like this soundtrack (And Sonic R.) is Richard Jacques at his musical peak.

The Sonic 3D Saturn soundtrack is very carefully put together, and the recurring theme throughout is executed extremely well.

In my opinion, the greatest use of repeated motifs/notes/theming comes in to play with the bad ending sequence. Its music starts off with a less-upbeat variant of a section of the Special Stage music, which is nicely fitting, as it musically hints to what the player needs to revisit and master (The Special Stages.) in order to access a good ending.

It then transitions to a faster-paced variant of Robotnik's theme, which musically communicates the urgency to properly defeat Robotnik, and also foreshadows the final boss music's faster pace.

The bad ending cutscene is one of my favourite parts of Sonic 3D Saturn, as it wraps up everything succinctly and with consistent audio theming, while simultaneously communicating storytelling and performing subtle callbacks to past gameplay, without uttering a single word, simply ending the cutscene with Robotnik's laugh. It's a wonderful continuation of Sonic 3 & Knuckles' great non-dialogue approach to narrative.

youtube.com/watch?v=k0kvNY7k2kc

youtube.com/watch?v=DcqwFtF3lxU

I think if people can think Sonic going fast isn't the point, but mostly, the ability, then Sonic level design could easily be made with this in mind. It's like Mario 64, how you got that one autist that speedruns the game a new asshole, that's how Sonic should be. Speed being a skill to exploit, not the constant way to play Sonic, the only way.

>They kinda did that with Colors too, making it a blocky puzzle platformer and it was fucking terrible
That's because it was a 2D Mario clone, not a 3D Mario clone.

Adventure 2 in terms of variety. Unleashed in terms of visuals. Mania in terms of fanservice but with the training wheels taken off with a full on building mode for online sharing. Lobbies for people to be faggots and erp in or just be jackasses in general and grief eachother. Time trial records with weekly resets.

>Who the fuck played the PS3 version?
Sup.

>. Mania in terms of fanservice but with the training wheels taken off with a full on building mode for online sharing.
>3D Level builder
Sounds impossibly autistic, but interesting.

Attached: 1445695675422.jpg (600x602, 32K)

Not impossible. Just have a multi tiered grid system of some kind and a preset base ground with lite teraforming options.

>Three playable characters: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles
>Sonic plays like adventure and unleashed. On Adventure-esque levels he has SA1 momentum, SA2 controls, and parkour mechanics like Lost World, but not shit, more like Prince of Persia/Ninja Gaiden Black. Unleashed-esque levels play straight up like day-time stages, nothing different there.
>Tails also play like adventure, his stages are more exploration and puzzle focused, but nothing mind breaking, rather than just raech the end before Sonic. Simple, but not brain dead, puzzles that are fast to to finish for replayability's sake. Might have some pick up key itens and take to x playce to progress, still speedy, as to not make any backtracking monotonous
>Knuckles plays like the werehog, but way faster. Stages are nowhere near as long as the Werehog's, focused on combat and platforming, combat mechanics are DMC-inspired however, with lock-on directional based imputs. Combat can be completely ignored, but destroying enemies gives you time bonuses like Gamma levels.
>Has an exp system like Unleashed, where you can upgrade characters with better stats like speed, number of rings you lose, or new moves and shit for Knuckles
>Bosses play like traditional Sonic bosses for Sonic and Tails, Knuckles are more like action game bosses, where you beat the shit out of them
>Super forms are story 'locked' but once you reach the point in the story where you have all emeralds you can go Super anytime you want as long as you got the rings
>Story is like Unleashed/storybook series, light hearted enough to not come off as edgy or tryhard, but serious enough to not be downright retarded

It'd probably be a decent game at best.

>track's supposed to be short considering the actual level
>but you still want a proper full length version of it like it's first act
youtube.com/watch?v=kc-uUIAIU8Q
Reskin Jet set radio but replace it with sonic and add the spindash and homing attack.

Attached: complex.png (200x271, 68K)

Did you guys even Sonic Studio?
youtube.com/watch?v=lrn0vcAczoU

Attached: Sem título.png (1024x580, 491K)

>Has an exp system like Unleashed, where you can upgrade characters with better stats like speed, number of rings you lose, or new moves and shit for Knuckles
This was one of the dumbest things included in Unleashed. Having to grind exp to make Sonic faster or to unlock more moves for the werehog just feels pointless. Just give the player everything from the get-go and encourage them experiment on their own, don't create a scenario where the game only reaches its true potential gameplay-wise after a few hours in. If you feel like your really need to "teach" the player how to play your game then you do it through level design or enemy encounters, not by drip feeding them new abilities over time.

i'd wipe the slate clean and try to translate classic sonic gameplay into 3d again but with modern technology and without the pressure to keep sonic "hip".

Attached: 1554169908197.png (174x300, 5K)

Metroidvania Sonic could be interesting, but Unleashed wasn't the best example.

>The designer didn't design anything groundbreaking
>carried by the programmer's ability to deliver an movement system that actually feels fun and good
You think the programmers just came up with the movement system on their own?
>The common complaint about Utopia is how shitty the level design is.
Yes, and it's constantly pointed out the level design in the demo isn't representative of anything that's supposed to be in the final game.

I guess I should've made it clear that the unlockable moves aren't necessary to beat the game. They are there more as a way to give the player more options during gameplay.

Kind of like an action game, where if you're good enough you can beat the entire thing without upgrading your character, just with base stats/moves. The exp is meant more for Knuckles than Sonic and Tails, since he's the guy with the combat gameplay, and giving him a constantly increasing movepool would spice up the gameplay and give the player more options.

Of course, the game would be lenient enough with the exp that just beating the levels give you enough points to upgrade all characters. I've played enough vanilla DMC4 to know that grinding for fucking upgrade points is absolute ass.

>game about speed
>criple with exploration and low pacing
Do you even really want "Marble zone" the game?

>exploration = bad
Off yourself. 3K and Mania are perfect examples it works fine. Just don't explore if you don't want to slow down idiot. It's called options.

Metroidvania Sonic could be interesting
Eh, I just feel like Sonic should be the type of game where you have access to every ability from the beginning. Sonic's moveset should be the equivalent of a swiss army knife and the player should be encouraged to tackle most obstacles/level design their own way.

It'd be like playing a version of Sonic Mania where you're only given the drop dash halfway into the game. Not a great idea, imo.

Focus on plataforming like Adventure but with no camera fucking your shit and more responsive controls. Boost is also in the game, but revamped to be something like a "High skill" mechanic that has short duration, but can be extended with good planning/tricks and lets you finish the levels in much shorter time (so something like 5 minutes for base level, 3 for using boost)

Imagine a video game cinematic universe series of movies. Akin to Super Smash but instead of a game, all those characters are put into in a movie

>Eh, I just feel like Sonic should be the type of game where you have access to every ability from the beginning
I didn't mean to claim otherwise, I agree with this too. Just the idea itself would be interesting, but I wouldn't be asking for it personally.

I did, it was my first PS3 game. Also played the PS2 version before that

I love that first one. That shit is so catchy

I came up with this as part of a plan, but here's my Sonic Adventure 3 pitch

>Base it VERY LOOSELY around the Metarex arc of Sonic X
>Big space adventure with big, open ended hub planets
>Each planet has a planet egg that the bad guys want to steal
>Only Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow are playable
>Sonic stages are just like Adventure Sonic, except there's a bigger emphasis on momentum and fluidity, with Utopia as a basis for how fast and smoothly shit should go. He even has his drop-dash instead of a ground pound.
>Tails stages are on his plane. Afterburner/Ace Combat style.
>Knuckles' stages are combat and exploration heavy. Treasure hunt, but mainly fight off small enemies until he has to fight a big boss.
>Shadow stages are a mix of Sonic and Knuckles. Speed platforming, but with more enemies to fight. He has a move-set that lends itself to both. He also serves as the window to Eggman/Rouge's crew and an additional perspective on the story.
>The planets, themselves, are big hub worlds that you travel to [Action stages] from. You have the option to travel from stage-to-stage, but this hubworld allows you to practice your abilities in a wide open space.
>You have to complete missions and side-quests to face the bosses (kind of like the Just Cause chaos system)
>The ship is also a mini-hub where you can interact with the team and form bonds/friendships (semi social-link ish) that unlock new abilities in the style of Sonic Advance 3's team moves. (For Tails, they're upgrade parts for his jet)

>Mfw I realize this is the last and I mean THE LAST good sonic doing cool shit video cinematic thing

I miss this bros. I miss seeing Sonic being cool.

Forgot to post the face. My bad.

Attached: 1565655085091.jpg (906x1024, 67K)

youtube.com/watch?v=j-ADCH064F4
i liked the trailer. the music fit well.

Roof Top Rumble was also s tier grade desu. That song made me want to visit Lodon... Until I found out how shitty it is over there lol.

I still can't believe this shit is from a 2008 console game

Attached: 1.png (1920x1080, 3.36M)

If you look really close you can see the little things that shows it's from 2008, but god damn, a normal glance and you wouldn't think that's over a decade old.

Attached: God dammit, this game is so fucking gorgeous.jpg (1280x720, 129K)

Non-Sonic related

Has anyone been to Sega's zoos or their casino hotel resorts? Always seemed like a rad place to go.
youtube.com/watch?v=KnJ7R8zpi2I
youtube.com/watch?v=5nQf2xGpUjk

Attached: 20190228.jpg (768x432, 99K)

intresting

youtube.com/watch?v=OM76zVfE7jQ

It was supposed to be in direct competition with Super Mario Galaxy. That's what they were aiming for.

Now they can barely reach for Splatoon

Attached: sonicdogs.jpg (1920x1080, 181K)

I enjoy Sega music.

Attached: 107419F8-E000-4B5E-A986-E419D739CE76.jpg (2011x2048, 1.14M)

I need an answer that's been bothering me for decades
WHO THE FUCK ARE THEY?

Attached: 000.png (640x480, 13K)

I very much believe that a good chunk of the critics who "re-reviewed" SA1 & SA2 on Nintendo platforms back then with lower scores were autistic Nincels who were prepared their pitchforks against Sonic at his most vulnerable period.

Like, they had one job at porting Battle to the PS2 and yet ended up with a console sitting at third place. Ass backwards fucking company.

seems like fun

sega music is on a whole new plane
youtube.com/watch?v=JLr2_tm3fZg