How do we stop him

Put salsa de la que pica on his tacos.

Don't play smash but watched top 8 a bit and is joker just really fucking strong? Seemed to not have any downsides to me

Build that wall.

Samsora had 3 stocks and MKLeo just one with Samsora at game match. After that it was just an endless barrage and commentators going asshurt because their negro buddy was choking.

Wait for Nintendo to nerf joker, might take a couple months.

He's the only one with a Joker in Top32.

At this point this

literally the only player doing anything with joker

americans are dumb niggers

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We need Kameme to gain more power. He's the only one who stands a chance.

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Yes incredibly strong but also hard to play.

>implying Leo won't just dominate with the next character he picks up
this dude got people thinking Ike was broken because of how strong he made him look. If Mkleo picked up Kirby or Bowser Jr. people would be talking about how broken they are within a month.

he's a very solid character, but he's nowhere near the meta-breaking character people pretend he is. you can see his games against zoners and see how OP Arsene is but how obvious it is to respond. Leo is just super, super good.

the kiddies who hate Hero and Joker and stuff are just used to online spammers and lose to King K Rool repeatedly right now, but actual top-tier smash players solved K Rool so bad he's a low tier in tourney play now, and we've seen obvious progress on figuring out how to counter Joker. i think the main thing with figuring out characters that are genuine mid-high tier characters is that the roster is so big that there's as many characters being used to fight Leo's joker as there are competitive players who are facing him.

He's definitely top tier but Leo plays him at a level beyond anyone else.

Look at Nairo's Joker or any low level scrub trying to emulate Leo's Joker and it's clear he's just a great player that has mastered the character.

literally impossible.

down air into up smash needs to be patched out
Then he will be honest

You can't the more you try and stop him the harder he bounces back.
Tweek at evo reverse 6/0
Samsora at smashcon reverse 6/0
Tweek at smash con reverse 3/0
The closer you get to beating him the better he is

This. Also, it'll be just as depressing when he goes and beats them anyway post-nerf. Leo hasn't been stomping people like he was at first either. Tweek and Samsora really gave him a run for his money. He's been sent to losers' bracket twice now, and he lost in 2nd at a major before that. All the high-tier players need to work more on their nerves and composure more so than their gameplay. Because that's why he's winning. In their heads they built him up as an unstoppable monster and they partially defeat themselves.

even look at Leo's set openers at Evo and Smash Con. if the char were broken, he'd be picking up perfect sets over and over, but he's routinely losing before he downloads his opponents. this isn't bayo. Leo is just very good. he just needs a youtube channel or some streamed casual games where he wins sets against top players with Lil Mac and shit so people can see it's him and not his char

S E E T H I N G
E E T H I N G S
E T H I N G S E
T H I N G S E E
H I N G S E E T
I N G S E E T H
N G S E E T H I
G S E E T H I N

CAN SOMEONE TELL TWEEK TO STOP TOUCHING HIS HAIR ITS VERY UNNERVING

yeah, at smashcon for just one example, zackray got completely fucking broken by losing a close set to him and then dropped a set against someone he's definitely better than.

the salt level in the smash community is so unhinged. they were gonna ban fucking Hero then the char didn't even show up at Smash Con in like what Top 64? Top 128?

>He's the only one with a Joker in Top32.
Actually 2 others got top 32. Void got 25th.

Leo thinks Chrom is broken
His opinion is invalid

Top 128. Couldn't break top 64.

From what I've seen playing the matchup, the only nerf Joker probably needs is for his gauge to fill way slower than it currently does without using down-b.

Half the time he gets Arsene at or just before 100% without using down-b once which kinda negates the purpose of the move and forces you to go for early kills and gimps to prevent him from using his free comeback mechanic. Down-b should be the most reliable way of getting to Arsene and forces Joker into a certain playstyle that relies on it if he wants to abuse the boost from Arsene. That or make Arsene drain faster for him getting hit; a power-up like that shouldn't be as strong as it is for as long as it stays out.

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Is the online for this game still garbage without an ethernet adapter?

The people who want to ban hero are the same ones defending joker. Its the Leffen fanboys.

get him a korean gf

Yes, don't bother. Sometimes it's even garbage with one, just far less. Don't make it worse on us with wifi please.

That cunt needs to shut the fuck up and stay on smelle

The online for any game is garbage without Ethernet. Some games just do a better job of hiding the lag visually but lag is always there over wifi.

as much as he straightens it he won't have it for much longer

Except you can literally just hit him to speed it up

how do you use an ethernet adapter and the gamecube adapter? do you have to seriously get a USB splitter?

Leffen needs to get carpal tunnel already.

>they were gonna ban fucking Hero then the char didn't even show up at Smash Con in like what Top 64? Top 128?
I think we still need to wait and analyze more for hero to start placing high. He hasn't been out long enough for someone to really get good with him I feel. But yeah, I don't also don't feel like he's going to go too high either. He's a solid character, just I question how consistent he can perform.

Only in Leo's hands so far, no one manages to get very far with him.
For online play, he's honestly just another average ass character with some strengths and weaknesses. I read most of them like a book.

You can't risk hitting him because if he lands one hit from about 30% you will die to a single combo.

Also zackray. Him pulling out a fucking ROB outta his ass and nearly stealing the set out from under Leo's nose was inspirational.
Honestly, I think the one who truly takes a tourney from Leo will be a low tier hero. As a supreme technical player, matchup unfamiliarity is Leo's greatest weakness.

Switch has 3 USB ports. And even if it didn't, you only need the second USB for rumble for the GC adapter.

I'll give a serious answer for once in my life:

The only player right now who can conjure enough mental stability to beat Leo was Samsora. And even then, he broke and Leo fucked him up easily. Leo is strangely stoic, always composed and always follows his plan. I've seen him repeatedly win games where he only has one stock left and his opponent has all 3. He's a good player, but the mindset of a player is something nobody ever talks about, and this applies to all other games played competitively.

The Ultimate players, most of them at least, are too focused on behaving like robots. Their efforts are being concentrated on finding the broken top tier of the game so they can just auto-pilot with it. There is no such top tier in Ultimate. Leo is so fucking good that he made everyone else parrot the same opinion because he kicks so much ass with Joker: "JOKER IS SO BUSTED, JOKER IS BROKEN!", and yet no one else can place high with Joker. Leo loves his character. He is seriously a Persona fan so he just loves the character, it has nothing to do with top tier or not. Even without Joker he dominated.

What I'm trying to say is that Ultimate players need to stop trying to tier whore so much, and they need to actually play the fucking game for once in their life. Leo has done nothing but shut the fuck up and practice, that's why he's the best right now and he will remain the best so long as everyone else is too busy bitching about character choices, flip flopping on who their main is and discussing who is or isn't top tier. While they're all vomiting theories and not playing the game, Leo is going to tournaments and getting paid because he just plays the fucking game instead of theorizing about it.

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Joker has some properties that Leo uses to their upmost advantage.

Joker's meter gauge and how fast it builds makes it easy to come back from a bad situation, look at how many times Sam or Tweek combo'd him to 60-70% in one string, which immediately triggers Arse and forces them to back off or risk eating that damage right back. You can attack Joker to deplete the gauge, sure, but it's comparatively small chunks and much more dangerous to do than stalling out, which also takes forever. There's no drawback.

Rebel's guard also needs to be looked at. Notice during Sam's run as Peach his turnips would instantly fill up the gauge for no particular reason, it cost him a few stocks by using Rebel's Guard offstage, eating a turnip, instantly getting Arse, then jumping up from the blastzone with no risk. All from an attack that causes 5% damage, now imagine every other character trying to edgeguard him while he holds down Rebel's Guard? The only safe chance you have is the few fames when he uses a zipline. Being able to hold down Rebel's Guard, especially offstage, is an incredible tool that lets him have a wider recovery range than characters like Rob.

a good game doesn't need perfectly balanced characters, which is not even possible. It's just that the best characters should require skill to play optimally and should not win in a merely trivial way. A game is imbalanced when a significantly less skilled player can beat a better one simply by picking an overpowered character.

High skill cap character. Watch other people play him and then watch Leo do it, the difference is night and day from someone like Nairo and MKLeo playing Joker. The main reason is that the character has a lot of options but you have to shmove in the neutral game to actually utilize it. If you play Joker just around his persona, you're not playing him well which is what a lot of low level people do

leo is just very good but idk why people are pointing to results other than leos as if other characters that had gotten deserved nerfs were dominating top 32s.

Tweek by not choking and activating his curse marks.

this
Leo's opponents are going in with the mindset of gamers
Leo himself is going in with the mindset of an athlete

Joker can't kill w/o Aresne until like 150-200%, that's a pretty big downside

Leo wins not because Joker but because he has inhuman stamina. Everyone else tires out after two games but he plays like it's his first. So he's been sent to loser's bracket in both tournaments, but it actually helps him win grand finals because he can power through a bracket reset and go for the win while Tweek and Samsora blow it and start to choke.

Hero seems to be a solid high-mid tier. his frame data is ass and his most consistent kill moves without frame issues require set up and to hug opponents despite having a mediocre grab and movement options OoS. he's also like tailor made to lose against a ton of the popular chars in the current meta like ZSS, Poke Trainer, and Joker unless you really play him safe.

>people actually think joker is fine

Please tell me how a character that features a literal comeback mechanic is fine? Joker without Arsene is already a good character and anyone saying otherwise is completely ignoring the many 50% damage combos and kill confirms the character has, then you add in Arsene and things just get wild. But why is Leo the only Joker winning stuff you ask? Because he is fucking good and no one else at his skill level has put so much time into the character, this doesn't at all change the fact that the characters kit can be overtuned.

There were many sets where Samsora in particular completely outplayed Leo until Arsene showed up and he just could not keep up with the combo and kill power that character has.

But He gets Arsene so often it doesn't really matter. Leo sometimes gets Arsene back out in under 10 seconds.

Lucario has a comeback mechanic and he sucks. Joker is still better than Lucario of course, but it doesn't automatically make him OP. Everyone has a bit of comeback anyway with rage.

agree with your principle, but if it applied, Hero would have made Top 64.

No one else turns into a god as soon as they reach around 70%. You can't even play heavy characters into him to kill before that because he can combo the shit out of them.

Lucario needs to be at kill range for his comeback mechanic to activate, meanwhile Joker can get hit by a 5% damage projectile with Rebel's Guard on and go into beast mode, regarldess of his percentages.

If he is getting stomped, Arse STILL activates at around 60-70%, which is still much less than Lucario's comeback, or anyone else's potential comeback mechanics in the game.

Leo usually uses Arsene to clean up the end of a second or third stock because he doesn't focus on Rebel's Guard. also, every character has rage mechanics, and Lucario has an OP comeback mechanic, too. you're just a triggered low GSP online player who's getting schooled by kids copying Leo instead of getting gud

make him run a mile

>when he rebel's guarded two vegetables in one edgeguard

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Well I still don't think he's ridiculously OP, not Smash 4 Bayonetta levels or even Cloud. But I do agree that maybe they need to nerf how much Arsene is on the field.

The 10ish seconds is a measure of being able to accurately read a situation where he can counter, it’s not some innate inevitability

Joker's comeback mechanic is one of the strongest, if not the strongest, in the game and he can routinely have it out by 40% on good reads alone. Even then, if he survives to 100% he automatically gets an Arsene for free. The problem is that it's ridiculously strong as both a comeback and a win-more.

>he is obviously a Persona fan
>admits to never having played Persona 5
Dude just figured something out nobody else could & capitalized on it, that’s all there really is to it.

This. He just tried the new character and liked it. he didn't play Persona ever until after Joker was already his main.

By that logic can Captain Olimar be playable? Love Pikmin but cannot into him.

Sort of, but not really. He's basically Sheik w/limit.
I don't think Joker will be near anywhere Bayo lvls of toxic.

The thing with the Arsene comeback mechanic is that the situation where you get Arsene like that, you're already in a negative situation because you're 99% of the time going to be off stage trying to recover with Arsene out while you're opponent is edge guarding. This is actually the worst place to be as a joker player because your recovery options become worse with Arsene, or rather your opponent has more room to fuck you up on edge guard when you have Arsene. The opponent is still going to be in a good situation even if Arsene comes out when Joker gets to 60-70%, Samsora showed that in both his sets yesterday

Rebel's guard is another similar situation. The idea that Peach only has turnips as edgeguard techniques is wack and knowing that Joker can counterplay that move means you have to change your gameplan against this character. Just because you can turnip edge guard Wolf and Fox effectively doesn't mean you need to do that against everybody, especially Joker. If you really want to have options, whiff a turnip and punish a missed rebel's guard off stage because that move is insanely laggy

>haha I'll take an obvious joke at face value that'll show him!!!

Yeah and even though Lucario is completely built around his comeback mechanic it is still garbage compared to Jokers, Lucario can't have his up at the beginning of a stock with 20% like Joker can, he can't build it up for free, and it damn sure will not kill at under 60% like Arsene can off the top with a down air into upsmash.

>hurr git gud
>comparing rage to Arsene

please don't talk about games you have no clue about.

Kill yourself Sony faggot, nothing you say or do will stop smash from being the top fighting game

>he's literally Arsene himself

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twitter.com/SuperSmashCon/status/1160756543069052928
>kills at 57% for free

Nah Arsene is fine guy and doesn't need to be tweaked at all, you guys just need to get good

He is unironically 1 trillion IQ
Someone post that webm of him farming Arsene on Rob's gyro. Who the FUCK would think to do that.

That conversion is absolutely retarded and needs to be patched out

>bitching so much about arsene
just learn how to mixup into grabs you faggot

Me
i'm white so if he's 1 trillion then I'm 1 billion quadrillion IQ

>whiff an up smash as a light character
>get killed for it
omg you guys BAN THIS CHAR

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>All these pseudo-intellectual autists typing paragraph after paragraph about why Joker is overpowered despite only playing quick play and never attending a tournament themselves

Sakurai balances around quick play anyway, that's why K. Rool got nerfed. Joker actually has some depth to his playstyle so autists can't just pick him up and automatically win. Joker will never get any substantial nerfs and you'll just have to learn how to play around him instead of whining for balance changes, stay seething retards.

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You're thinking of rebel's guard as just another counter, when it's in fact better. You absorb impact, don't get bumped, and put that damage into meter for your god mode, and you can do it offstage, AND you can hold it down so timing isnt even an issue. Just because you can outplay it once or twice doesn't make it a bad option, and makes those times an exception rather than the rule. It's still ridicuous to get a full charge from 5% damage and is a gross skew of risk vs reward.

Actually I prefer Nintendo games. Smash has always been a casual party game and you faggots limit the game in order to make it "competitive". Take a fucking shower and play a real fighting game if you want to be taken seriously. You are a cancer upon the FGC and are only tolerated by TOs because you bring in that sweet autistic money.

FACT: If Leo was white, American and racist you'd all be calling him based instead of seething that his character is OP.

Ban his bullshit broken character. This is why Ultimate will never be as respected as melee.

He's high tier but only someone like MkLeo can bring him to top tier. The comeback mechanic relies on player having the mental fortitude to be behind to make full use of it. As we see from players like Tweek, Samsora and Zackary, they all crack under the pressure. Comebacks only work if you can handle the pressure of losing at any time.

>5% full meter
[citation needed]
or do you just mean you're triggered that any attack can add to meter so a 5% projectile has the capacity to help Joker get over the edge? 'cause if so, that's retarded. anyone shooting a projectile has to adapt their strategy to characters with shines and reflects. why the fuck can't they adapt to this counter? and i ask this again because you avoided it earlier, why don't you just learn how to fucking grab??

Dragdown up-air -> upsmash kills around 100, depending on stage. But they always counterpick him to the stages where this is works.

strangely, there is only one joker in top 10.

if people start switching to joker en masse because he cannot be beaten when even lower ranks play him, ill probably think otherwise.

Literally every other top character has recieved nerfs. imagine beating everyone who mains already-nerfed characters and being called the best witht he only non-nerfed top. Leo has been struggling to get his tournament wins recently, I doubt he'll be able to hold his win streak with a nerfed joker, even if its baby nerfs

Downair with arsene can be teched when you're on the ground. It's one of the few dairs in the game that you can do it with, which makes me think it's actually a bug.

>almost every top tier player in Ultimate mains a different character and roster variety is constantly being reassessed so much that no one agrees on a tier list
>one player fucking grinds all day instead of bitching on social media about the game (Light's lol i practiced one day a week for Evo shit) so he wins
>you SEETHE

meanwhile
>dinosaur game for grandparents with like five viable characters
>competitive scene is extremely toxic and exclusionary of new players
>every matchup is fucking solved at this point and it's a matter of reaction speed instead of well-executed plans for win conditions

stay sweaty and away from Evo, Meleefag

Only 1 puff in melee top 10 but that character should still be banned for degeneracy.

I'm citing the game itself, with Smash Con finals being the most recent example, there were multiple instances where single piddly attacks filled up his Arse meter, on OR offstage, which was even commented on by the casters themselves.

yeah, just like Diddy and Sheik in smash 4-oh wait

he gets frequent kills at 50%+ without arsene

It's only against the really damn good players that 150-200% comes into play

Leo had already said he has Chrom as his secondary so I am going to be awaiting the numerous cries of Chrom OP and nerf Chrom when he switches to him.

Galaxy Brain

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>Literally every other top character has recieved nerfs
No one in Ultimate has been as dominating as Leo is, different scenarios

it wasn't a 6/0 in the technical sense. He didn't win 6 matches straight, he won 5 straight

Olimar got nerfed for being annoying in competitive. Joker is single handedly destroying the competitive scene he's gonna get nerfed.

Make him pick up chrom. A character that is arguably the best in the game if not for his horrible weakness. Then other people might have a chance

static bkb of gyro causes higher gain. Try harder leohater.

>Defending joker
The character is good but people who think he's broken and unbeatable are retarded fags that should just stick to elite smash

those projectiles also deprecate arsene meter once he's out, dipshit

The fact that he eliminated the other top 5 players in the losers bracket run, has undeniable proves he really is the top player in the world, period.

he hasn't been dominating this consistantly until he went to joker. He had good wins before that, but he still regularly lost

He's a great player, but joker is definately elevating him a bit higher than he should be. namely from being a great character with comeback potential due to having an actual comeback mechanic that lets him bounce back from having bad starts to matches

This. It's the bayo situation again. Competitively fine at release but fucking babies whine about everything instead of adapting.

just work on your composure losing repeated sets against a character literally designed to punish you for winning against them.

God i feel sorry for them, no wonder zackray crashed like that

if joker is so good why hasn't dad come back yet

People have consistently had the advantage in sets against him and he has consistently made adjustments and come back. That suggests that it's less the character and more the player.

Holy shit all of this, I don't think he was a persona fan at first but I do know how much he liked JoJo, he has like giorno ladybugs on his Twitter page and dyed his hair blonde and honestly seeing a stand user in smash is fucking cool it's why I play him.

Japanese protagonists are barely allowed to have visible parents, and especially not dads.

I just think they need to work around how fast falling multi-hit aerials work.

Leo was 2-0'd at Evo by a japanese player who then got knocked out by other JP players. There's a consistent strategy to fighting Joker that players are slowly learning.

It can be both user. It can be him being a great player AND having an overtuned kit

an overtuned kit is worthless if you aren't a good player

Bayo was literally carrying nobodies to victory though. That player pink fresh was a literal nobody for the entire first smash 4 year picks up bayo and starts beating top players and dominating his region. Same with captain zack

You can SDI it but it's very ineffectual. I think they should just adjust the SDI multiplier across the board, just a bit, and it would be a good improvement.

youtube.com/watch?v=AI63RHUb1uc
watch from about 16:00. Samsora literally stood there and thought about it and decided to bop him with the projectile anyway even though he had been holding forever. that's the situation where you drop the turnip and grab, not where you hand the arsene over without being out-played at all.

but captain zack was carried by ally's love

most of those matches have gone down to the wire. and when matches get that close, you tend to glance at the character being used than the player. which one is the clearly better choice? it probably made a difference

Yes but if it's not the character Yea Forums will have to admit a Mexican is objectively, demonstrably better than them and they need the coping mechanism

you wouldn't launch a fully charged neutral B attack with Samus, Mewtwo, or Hero into a lingering shine or Mother character absorption thing or a Pit shield. why the fuck would you pop a projectile at a fully held rebel guard? absolutely retarded play. Leo deserves to win if his opponent is gonna make those kinds of rookie mistakes.

Build the wall

Why? If Joker gets nerfed he will just try another character. He already played Ike and Wolf.

na sorry, bayo was fucking duuuumb. she was in the game for a long time and even pros had a hard time dealing with her up til the end. consistently #1 in tier lists, couple of matchup points above cloud which is astonishing considering cloud was #1 contender strong easily.

remember how many bayo dittos were in any tournament? remember evo???

because most of the time leo wasn't holding the counter, he was tapping it

I honestly wouldn't fault samsora there. that was leo mixing it up

Agreed.

Joker is hard to get kill confirms with, if you nerf him he'll just become Bayonetta without the combos

I dont think we'll see base joker get nerfed much. Probably just the mechanics for arsene meter or maybe the amount of damage that arsene does, but not his knockback.

or at least, that'd probably be the best way to handle him

sure, joker is unga bunga but hes not OP. leo is just really really good.

>joker up air kill confirm is too strong!
>what? sdi? why do that when I can just die?
>hero is busted! rng has no place at all in smash! stichface and bobombs and swords and judgement hammer don't count!

lol tr4sh ultimate players, gotta whine to nintendo instead of getting better. melee must be terrifying.

thats basically it yeah. Joker is a good character but hes not THAT good, hes "needs some small adjustments" strong at best.

Joker is undeniably a strong character, but the difference between Leo's Joker and anyone else's Joker is worlds apart. Leo is making full use of the character.

On top of that, Leo himself is not only really good, but the guy has ridiculous composure on top of adaptability. Leo's managed to learn unfamiliar matchups and figure out how to punish his opponent's playstyle in just two sets, which has gotten him wins even when extremely behind. The longer that games go on for, the better it gets for Leo, and the worse it gets for everyone else.

Joker is basically jigglypuff from melee all over again

a Lone player brings a literally who character that almost nobody plays to a competitive level, so nobody knows how to properly fight them. But the character isn't so strong that you can just pick them up for the free win, you still need to main them.

Given how good MkLeo is with base Joker, arguable better than his Arsene-Joker, it would be a buff to him and he probably just wins harder.

What is it that makes people think Joker needs a nerf?

this is so true. see: a fucking villager playing even against marss' zss and giving him a really really hard time for two games, with an actually real chance of winning.

I think hes just better with base joker because its easier to punish arsene's recovery

He is strong, but he has a high learning curve, which is why Leo, his most dedicated player, is the only dominant Joker. There are some other great Jokers like Tsu, Eim, and Lemmons, but they haven't exploited his speed and retarded combos any where close to the extent Leo has.

A nonwhite defeats white people with him.

Joker is actually the only reason I bother watching pro Ultimate games, if they nerf the character Nintendo is fucking weak

you mean leo is, regular jokers play him pretty dull

And you think it's fair to get that great of a reward from a dumb 5% projectile, good job.

The best nerf I can think of is that Arsene should only come out if Joker is on a platform. There are tons of instances of Leo surviving because of Arsene coming out when he was getting back to stage or juggled.

>Meleefags wanting shit like wobbling ban and ledge grab limit
You're no better fag

It definitely is part of this. Tweek is the best example because if you look at what happened at EVO and then once again, almost beat for fucking beat at SmashCon, Tweek's biggest problem was he gave in to MKLeo's momentum the second he started gaining it. At EVO, it was that game 4 loss that really broke him when Leo started pulling the fight back in his favor and Tweek tilted and started making bigger and bigger mistakes. Then game 5 came and Tweek was too shook from giving up that massive lead that he continued to play worse and worse and he got in his own head. SmashCon was almost the same thing except it happened game 3 and once Leo had the advantage, Tweek tilted and Leo took the game.

Tweek clearly has the ability to go toe to toe with Leo but he gave into Leo's momentum too easily. I'm not gonna shit on him for it because Leo is fucking good at the game and it can't be easy to go up against an opponent like that but at the same time, what Tweek needs to remember is that he has played to that level as well. He's up against Leo for a reason because he earned that chance. You can't think of it as "how am I going to take down somebody this good?" You have to think about how well you've done to get that far in the first place and use that confidence to keep you sharp.

>high tier
This is the problem. We have for the first time a character that wins BACK to BACK to BACK Supermajors, in fact he has won EVERY single Supermajor since this characters reveal.
Yet we have Idiots who still claim he is only high tier, or barely top 10. WTF.
Name me ONE competitive esport that does this shit?
Joker is unquestionably the best character in the game. At worst top 2.

>this

Also faggots saying
>he's hard to play
go kys. in no way does that stop him from being the best character in the game

He already said Chrom is going to be his new secondary, I can't imagine why he'd need one unless hes expecting a Joker nerf soon

he literally took a second to think and still sent it. it's not leo's or my fault that you and samsora don't know how rebel's guard works

Imagine comparing scarflard to people like leo and armada.

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there is only one Joker in the Top 10. he is played by the best Ultimate player at the moment. when Leo picks up Chrom, Chrom will make you REEEE for nerfs.

>2 months ago
>Leo going through entire tournaments losing 0-1 games and never dropping any sets
>now
>sent to losers two tournaments in a row, not uncommon to drop games, went to match point twice in GF
>"we need to nerf joker NOW"

Nobody's arguing how it works, you're just too dense to realise how skewed the risk vs reward is here, or just won't admit how poorly designed it is.

shut up spiclover

banning degeneracy != banning characters because someone happens to be better than you.

>Joker is unquestionably the best character in the game. At worst top 2.

The problem with this logic is that no one else is getting anywhere near the same results as Leo with the character; you could argue that the character is only good because the player is talented, or both the player and the character are good as well.

Tell the cartel he said they're pussies

The bad Joker play actually makes the good Joker play by Leo even better honestly.

Imagine still being butthurt about Zero in 2019

Hes a Smash Master now baybee

>People uniroincally wanted puff banned for a day
>Wobbling basically invalidates icies
Like I said

only method that would work itt

If you really wanted to get him shut out as a player, coordinating a campaign to make him look creepier and creepier would be more effective. His k-girls comment opened that door.

IC still has a massive skill ceiling with desyncs. Massive.

Wobbling is a terrible crutch that has held back the character meta for a long time now.

It does not do players any favors that Smash is extremely slow and long compared to other fighting games. We all know how much of a meme it is for top 8s to go on forever, but it's also part of what makes Smash so fucking difficult at top level. You need to maintain your mental momentum for 3 to 5 hours while other fighters wrap up in half that time even with a bracket reset and Ultimate, being the newer game, a;ways finds itself placed as the last game of any given tournament due to how much it could (read: WILL) fuck up schedules. It's easy to get exhausted and give momentum to another player with better mental stamina unless you're taking something like Ritalin or Adderall.

enforce border control

>Tekken ends
>afterparty immediately started
>smash 'players' couldn't get in by the time they got there

That was fucking great.

Leo enters the country legally
they can't kick him out as long as he has sponsor money

>Leo picks up Chrom
This will literally never happen as long as he is winning supermajors for Free EZ with Joker and even when Joker gets nerfed it still won't happen.

He will retire stream like Zero did and make easy money off twitch off of kids who look up to "the best smash ultimate player". Why risk this easy money by switching to a non-broken character?

All he has to do is continue to "prove himself" with this broken character for gullible idiots and kids and then retire saying "I'm no longer interested in smash ocmpetitively" or "People bullied me etc."

Spray deodorant at him

Hell, even look at Leo's Joker at Umebura. It didn't do too hot there, because he hadn't put a whole lot of work into the character yet.
It's clear that Joker is good, but you have to put a lot of work into him to make him that good, and so far Leo has been the only one to do it.

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i've seen his tweet, but what interview is he talking about? what is the joke he's making? to be clear, i don't really think canceling an 18 year old who's ESL for being horny makes any fucking sense but i am curious

>thinking this
Go back to quick play trying to get to elite like it means something

Fine then but you didn't answer my question
Name me an Esport where this wouldn't be the case that the character winning all the Supermajors back to back would not be considered the best character in that game's tier list?

?All he has to do is continue to "prove himself" with this broken character for gullible idiots and kids and then retire saying "I'm no longer interested in smash ocmpetitively" or "People bullied me etc."
Or he's going to place first at majors with another character and have the entire community whine about "X IS BROKEN PLS BAN/NERF" for the fifth time.

no nonwhite can enter my country legally
because being nonwhite is a crime

not to mention that japs have proven to be his weak point. Leo can't into spacing mindgames. americans are just Free EZ opponents 'cause they all wanna wombo combo and pursue pursue pursue

Protobanham can beat him in a best of 5

I'm not saying it makes sense at all, I'm saying that you could do it. You just need a few people who want to tear someone down and are willing to lie and cry to make it work.

He took a dig at people like Wizzrobe and HBox, saying "I'm an EVO Smash winner now, where do I get a korean girlfriend like these two guys?"

Well, this is finally it Yea Forums, think i'm just gonna end it here, I dont think I can take this shit anymore.
>epstien shit has me freaking out
>just lost 3k in stocks
>family wants to kill me
>keep hearing niggers and homos giggling 10 feet from my window every night
>get gang stalked every single day
>older brother has recently came out as a tranny and has admitted he has sexual feelings for me
Since you guys have always been my favorite board, and kept me entertained. I'll return the favor. I'll be streaming my suicide in about 10 minutes. In the mean time, I shall answer any questions, suggestions, etc

>inb4 go out in a blaze of glory
No, not going to ruin other peoples lives.
>inb4 why dont you make your own thread
ISP is blocked or some shit. so just posting this in first thread i see.
>inb4 is there anything i can do to change your mind
Nope, its Happening.

stream URL and quick rundown:
pastebin.com/mBNpUHbA

See you all soon.
~VQ

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>Name me an Esport where this wouldn't be the case that the character winning all the Supermajors back to back would not be considered the best character in that game's tier list?

I wouldn't know, but if thats the way ot works in other communities then they're probably retarded. Tier lists should be based on larger datapools than simply whats happening at the very top of play.

Everything sonicfox does in nrs games

Every character he played was considered best after he won.

I thought of that yeah, honestly people need to punish arsene coming out / going away more. since he does animation lock a brief moment

PB can't win tournaments

that has to be a pasta or some shit r-right bros?

>joker is the best character in the game because mkleo plays him
>if mkleo didn't play him there wouldn't be a problem
sounds like they want to specifically target a single player because they can't rise to the occasion

ok this is epic

Sonic fox could literally play any fucking character in injustice 2 or mkx and could win with them. He'll probably to the same with mk11

I mean, theres only one of most characters in top 10, I dont think any character has 3 spots

Wait really? That's fucking awesome. Chrom is a really fucking cool character and I'm sad that its basically only mr R and shoyo play him.
Hope we get to see more leo chrom

Leo's Joker has regularly dropped plenty of sets, and many of his wins have been in game five after starting out on the losing end. He or his Joker play aren't insurmountable, and people are already learning the matchup.

The problem is that his opponents have been taking too long to close things out and get downloaded, on top of not having the composure after being forced to go into game four/five and/or full bracket resets.

youtube.com/watch?v=AD4gaRunKpA&t=5m53s
Literally gets Arsene in 10 seconds without down B.

Before you go, what are your most wanted characters for Smash?

Secondaries are good, joker does have bad matchups so even if he feels he can win sometiems you want an easier fight

he's balding and he's a cuck

cope sonygro

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His opponents straight up outplay him then crumble mentally when he evens it out.
>that zackray reverse pop off
>reverse 3-0 tweek twice in one week.
Tbh samsora got it the worst. You could see how shook he was when playing after giving leo so many free arsenes

retarded faggot. keep coping

Compare to Olimar who has Dabuz and Shuton in the top 10, with Myran just outside. The only other Joker player in the top 50 is Tsu, who has him as a secondary.

Joker isn't unga bunga you dumb faggot. He's not an easy character to master

coping with what, your dumb comment?

Sounds like a problem of the character requiring maining to be viable, and not a "well i want my free win" easy

t. jamal

Keep ruining the FGC cuck

A ton of his matches have been won with stray aerials from arsene. Arsene is such a dumb comeback mechanic. There was one instance where Nairo nearly 0 to death'd him only for him to get Arsene last minute and get his recovery back. He's not Bayonetta or MK broken, but there are a few retarded things about his design.

imagine being this retarded. leo is a much better player than that incel cuck faggot tweek

retarded faggot. end yourself

Nah, Tweek still got it worse, because he was up 2-0, and then just dropped all the way down. He just gave up after game 4 where as Samsora still tried to put up, if ineffective, fight.

Say hi to your wife's boyfriend when you go back to plebbit.

realtalk i dont even think its leo maintaining composure

I think fighting joker for extended sets is just mentally draining for these players

>Sounds like a problem of the character requiring maining to be viable, and not a "well i want my free win" easy

Could be, but we won't know until another Joker main starts getting results

But no user, THERE'S NO OTHER JOKER IN TOP 10, so that means it's fair and Joker is not overtuned at all!!!

Look at Leo's face when he won Evo and SSC. If we didn't know any better, he looked like he was the one that had lost the tournament. The man kept up his composure even when he had already won. He's the one that has to crawl up from the loser's bracket, while facing the other players of the world, and then fight two sets of finals. Almost every player pops off when they won a hard-earn victory. MkLeo just shrugs.

Sure thats a factor but being a top player means you have to win under those circumstances. In the end its Leo's mentality that beating out these other top players.

if anything that kinda makes me concerned for his mental state, not to dis his skill. I'm not sure i've seen him get excited

His mental state is fine. He actually has a sense of humor. He just knows how to keep his composure. Some people are just naturally like that and can't get phased by anything.

>implying Joker is the only top tier with jank

I'm laffin'

I want someone to beat MKLeo before nerfing Joker at all. Every set against him feels like watching a fucking boss fight and it's cool as fuck.

Would we be seeing those same results if he was still using Chrom or his older mains? This is a case of an interaction between a good player and a good character with unprecedented results, much like taking drugs and alcohol multiplies the effect of both.

people have "beaten" him. just not in a tournament tournament victory

It gives me a sort of impression that he's always thinking of how to improve, like victory to him is just a "good, but here's what I did wrong and I know what I need to work on for next time". Not letting it get to his head and knowing he can always do better and focusing on that even if he is at the top.

Marss beat Leo at grand finals for Smash Factor 8. Although, Leo pretty much lost the last game by SDing and Marss lost hard to Leo in losers at Smash Con.

Marss beat him like a week before Evo

Is a character like Roy or Falcon the answer? They're fast and hit pretty hard and can probably maneuver around edgeguards without too much issue.

Oh right i keep forgetting about that. I unfortunately missed that set

>muh fgc
cry some more autistic cuck

There were two sets. He beat him twice in the same day

probably not roy, the issue a lot of characters have is they get their recovery options gimped by arsene counter if they have an attack on their Up b.

Falcon maybe, Since his recovery is a grab, and would bypass the counter

>oh my god Arsene is 100% win button with no counterplay!!!!

unironically neck yourself, its literally part of his kit

sounds like these players are fucking trash then

I'd love to see mkleo have to deal with fighting a comeback mechanic for extended periods himself, see if his great composure holds up

/thread

He would still win, because he both has his own comeback mechanic and he has the ability to adapt. Stop acting like he wasn't winning tournaments before Joker came out.

Evert character has an in-built comeback mechanic. Every single one. It's called "fighting base Joker".

I'm pretty sure Justin Wong won several Marvel 3 tournaments with Storm, a character literally nobody else relevant except maybe Fanatiq for short while used. Also Justin made a ton of comebacks with solo Akuma, who due to his short buttons and extremely low health is no better than Upper-Mid Tier in that game despite his Top 10 assist in his tatsu.

doesnt mean its not broken

Why do smash players seem so much quicker to complain about characters than other fightan/competitive communities?

Larger audience means more vocal fans, most other fighting games are niche so they're not as vocal.

low emotional intelligence, low actual intelligence, but mainly because they are predominately literal children

Peach is broken, that shit character deals 60% damage with just a small grab but nobody says that it should be nrfed because it hasn't won a tournament, Joker without arsen can't kill you until you are over 150% and the fact that it needs arsen to kill you just shows you that smash is full of retards that can't play defensive until arsen wears off, MKLeo almost lost to a Ken but the retarded chunk decided to straight up attack Joker with arsen instead of waiting for it to wear off

Probably because Smash is the least likely active competitive game to get a competitively-tuned patch. Ultimate seems better about this but there's still some odd decisions being made and it's clear that Elite Smash is their main metric of what is strong.

A company like Capcom, Bamco, ArcSys, etc. are at the very least in-tune with their competitive audience and while they have made some bad choices (ArcSys fucking up Fat Buu's restand mixups for no reason comes to mind) they at least attempt to look to tournament results as a metric for what to change.

because this game doesn't encourage improvement

Nobody gives a shit, stop playing a children's party game competitively and go take a shower.

You guys are gonna be 30 in 5 more years. Jesus christ get your shit together.

Take your own advice faggot

Rewind back Zero into scarf Zero

>Roy
No. People don't really talk about this, but Tetrakarn is actually really stupid. It has a huge hitbox which makes it great for disrupting recoveries that have hitboxes (such as Roy's).
Alternatively you can carry Roy offstage with Downwards Gun to the point where he can't recover.

>Falcon
Maybe? Falcon is pretty underwhelming in this game, but he has Speed on his side. He doesn't really have much to stall out Arsene, though, which is a problem. His recovery is also pretty bad and exploitable.

I'm inclined to say Peach is the answer. Samsora only started choking against Leo when he got hasty and started challenging Arsene rather than stalling him out like he had been. Up until that point he was incredibly dominant.

Mega man and rob literally beat joker's entire gameplan. The best walling characters against a character that while fast doesn't really have good approaching tools.

Is Leo the best ultimate player around? for sure.
Is he carried by joker? Nope
Does that mean joker is free of being toned down in some areas? Nope
The issue right now is that Arsene has a lot of ways to charge and quickly(passively, when scoring KOs, when being attacked, when using down B, free 20% charge on respawn) and lasting a full 30 seconds while hitting extremely hard. There's also his weight which is around 93 for someone who has shiek/zss tier speed. And he's visually scrawny as fuck

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If you don't know what you're talking about you should not say anything. Peach has combos but the range on a lot of her attacks are very small. You don't see samsora getting long combos every match.
>that shit character deals 60% damage with just a small grab
Down throw only combos into bair, nair, and up air at higher%. try again.

Attached: Doffy chuckle.gif (500x281, 1.98M)

why is this game unplayable online?

wifiwarriors are the biggest factor

at least everyone stopped whining about Hero.

it was literally just cuckfen and his garbage fan base. i really wish he lost to hbox.

Tell him to use a non-broken character.

That didn't help. Arsene is a broken as shit move that comes out WAYYYY too often.

He is WAYYY too strong. Arsene is just broken.

Is joker just a fun character for him and his real power level is with Lucina or Ike?

Seething

>If Mkleo picked up Kirby or Bowser Jr. people would be talking about how broken they are within a month.

lmao No.

I remember when people were raving about how OP wario was after tweek won a tourney with him.
It can literally happen with any character.

>meanwhile Joker can get hit by a 5% damage projectile with Rebel's Guard on and go into beast mode, regarldess of his percentages.

This is the problem with Joker- Arsene. It's a broken move that fills up WAYYYYY to quickly. His down B counter SHOULD NOT fill the bar up, as well as getting hit and hitting. The bar should only be filled up by getting hit as that will give a negative to something that DOESN"T have one(IE like Lucario.)

Joker is like a combination of all the best attributes of every character Leo has ever excelled with.

>how to tell when the poster is underage

>MKLeo almost lost to a Ken but the retarded chunk decided to straight up attack Joker with arsen instead of waiting for it to wear off
Source?

Check the VODs m8

Entire point of Persona as a series is getting your other self to face the dangers of the world for you. You should be able to have agency in acquiring Arsene which is what Rebel'd Guard is meant to do

At this point it's like Leo takes one loss on purpose so he can play more games overall.

>Lives rent free in Tweek, Marss, Samsora, Twitter, and Yea Forums

How does he do it?

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he has no gf so he has all the time to channel PURE SKILL

PRIME EXAMPLE of WHY Arsene is broken, this fucking shit should NOT happen. The bar SHOULD NOT fill up with counters(counters are fucking shit as well.)

He'll piss off a drug lord, get kidnapped and murdered in some rural area.

Chrom is easily the best swordfighter though. And he's way better than Lucina. Lucina is too slow in the air and has a really mediocre disadvantage state, and is really wiff punishable. Chrom's recovery may be bad on paper, but because of his insane aerial drift he can make it back easily on most stages just with his double jump and airdodge. He very rarely needs to use his up-b. He also has some of the best ledgetrapping in the game. Jab into attack cancel back air is so easy to do.

Sureno spotted.

...

>Joker v.s. Megaman
>Megaman won

Big respect to that Megaman main, that bastard is also very hard to use

Kameme has been the best Mega Man since Smash 4. He was known as Kamemushi for a while.

You say that because it hasn't happened yet. If Leo was good with Kirby and kept winning people would complain about shit like his down air and throw combos

Just send him to another Umebura Japan Major

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I mean samsora put him into losers.
he's not unbearable like at all.

That was his very first tournament with Joker iirc. He's beated virtually every top Japanese player since then

Highest-tier Smash capability is directly correlated with virginity, which is also why Zero was top dog in Smash 4. And that's why Tweek keeps on losing, he came to a Smash tourney with hickeys on his neck. Cursed himself

So far, Samsora, Marss and Kameme have done so while playing his Joker.
Not to mention he has had several close situations with Zackray, Maister, Nairo and maybe more.
Leo is the only one who knows how to exploit Joker to its maximum potential.
Dude deserves his wins but not being the villain of Smash Ultimate, he is just very damn good with any character he plays.

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