Can video games be art?

No

This basically. Videogame can only be art when the artwork presented can only be done inside the video game format. Otherwise it's just writing/visual art.

Dear Esther has poetic writing, and it could work in writing without interactive visuals.

Difficulty can evoke anger/boredom and catharsis based on gameplay. Try again.

Yes. Disregard Yea Forums and Yea Forums pseuds who know nothing.

t. Master's degree in literary criticism

Genuinely curious, do people just pretend to like that book to seem cultured?

Some do, but it's a good book if you understand it.

Finnegans Wake is a piece of shit, though.

no one is woke enough for Finnegans Wake yet

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the unfinished swan is litterally art I guess

how's that mcdonalds job going?

>look mom, I did it again! I implied that non-STEM degrees don't give you a job and I also implied having a job is the most important thing in the world instead of doing what you like!

weak cope wagie

Perfect. Fuck you Yea Forums, I'll never read this shit.

>literally said having a job isn't important
>C-COPE W-WAGIE

Dropped out of highschool, user?

Why are you getting so upset at a shitposter?
Are they hitting a bit to close to home?

Show me a game without any visual elements first.

Is there nothing to get out of Ulysses if you don't get its references?
I don't like references because I don't know anything.
I took a writing quiz that told me that my style is closest to that of Joyce, so I've always been a little interested.

Blind Legend.

Text based adventures

Because shitposting isn't an excuse

Maybe. There's two main characters, Bloom and Dedalus. Bloom's chapters are pretty much just him walking around Dublin eating food and thinking about things.
Dedalus' chapters are all ultra dense reference fests that won't make sense unless you know the references or follow along with notes.
If you really want to get into Ulysses then pick up an annotated student's edition. You should probably start with Dubliners and Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man as well.

>silent weebfarts 2
lel

>Silent Hill 2
>art

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An audiobook isn't a videogame.
A choose your own adventure book isn't a videogame.

>An audiobook
It's not an audiobook. But since you're going to be a faggot about this and just move goalposts and say "nope, that doesn't count" to everything there's no point in bothering to continue this.

If you go by logic and strip that game from any visual, narrative and audio elements, what is left of it?

a transitive experience into the modern psyche of the kind of pleb who argues on Yea Forums.

>planescape torment
>"gameplay"

No. Video Games are a product of the Arts.

>>planescape torment
>>"gameplay"
It has a hell of a lot more gameplay than Silent Hill 2. And its story is actually driven by the player's actions, instead of just being a movie like in Silent Hill 2.

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Well Silent Hill 2 is actually good for one, maybe compare it to something that's not zombie trite next time.

how is this art?
literally a few bits of film replicated in-engine

Lmao, ok

Pseudo-intellectual bullshit. The defining part of a painting is the paint, now if you strip away the combinations of color, the image created by the paint, and the techniques used while painting, then you're just left with plain paint. Can plain paint evoke emotion? Paintings aren't art.

This may be difficult for a brainlet to understand, but you can combine things to make other things. Taking one piece out and saying "Look! This thing used to make the other thing is a different thing!" Is unbelievably stupid.

Let me ask you something. What is gameplay? Provide an example of just gameplay. Be specific. What does gameplay look like when isolated from graphics and sound?

A "movie game" is not when a game has a lot of cutscenes, it's when a game's gameplay hardly qualifies as gameplay and is basically an interactive cutscene.

>Pride and Prejudice and Atlus Shrugged not in garbage-tier but on the same level as fucking Ulysses
Cut your eyes out, you don't deserve to read

Wait 30-40 years and ask this question again.

>music is art
>literature is art
>cinematography is art
>painting and design is art
>a combination of these in cinema, a movie: art
>a combination of these in digital space, a video game: NOT ART
Explain yourselves.

>you're just left with plain paint.
Yves Klein's IKB 192. It's a single uniform blue on canvas. It's art.

>IKB 192
191 that is.

But you're forgetting that all those other things don't have social stigmas surrounding them which cause me to be insecure about how much I enjoy them. Therefore those are art and games aren't.

Art doesn't require skills and tasks to complete.
Art isn't consumed by manchildren

>he's never been subjected to installation art with combined performance and multimedia fusions
You lucky bastard.

>Art doesn't require skills and tasks to complete.
So literature and music aren't art. Gotcha.
>Art isn't consumed by manchildren
So literally no art is art. Holy christ you're an idiot.

>What does gameplay look like when isolated from graphics and sound?

It can't be isolated obviously, but moving a spaceship made out of 3 pixels is not artistic in anyway. Not even as an interactive art piece.

>So literature and music aren't art.
Consuming them doesn't require skills, except maybe reading.

This. If you think games are art you need to have sex.

The sentence "John picked up his cat."in a book isn't artistic either but it's still a part of the artistic whole, you retard.

>combined performance and multimedia fusions
Those usually don't require skills just press a button and something changes.

>Art doesn't require skills and tasks to complete.

Art isn't something to be "completed" it's something to be experienced. Not sure where you're getting that from.

>science is magic
>press button
>magic happens
You know people have to create the stuff for it to happen right?

you cannot experience games if you don't have the skills for games, also an average movie game lasts around 10+ hours which is quite long for an art piece.
Shorter walking simulator projects I can accept as art.

>Art doesn't require skills and tasks to complete.

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AAA videogames are objectively art because the largest amount of resources is put into producing art assets. They are literally more art than they are not art.

Who cares? You're putting arbitrary boundaries on what can be art, qualifications you pulled out of your ass. That's not how it works.

Yes, you philistine nigger, paint can literally make you ecstatic, dizzy, swooning, sad, etc just by filling out your field of vision the same way a tone can influence your emotions outside of a composition.
Videp games are toys, deal with it.

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Painting, music, literature are all media. Do you even know what the concept 'media' is?

Toys that would cease all functionality instantly if you removed the art in it. If something being mostly art is not enough, then a painting is not art either because most of it is the canvas, not the paint.

The literal point of Ulysses is that it has no point. It's a dude walking to a dinner date but it's so enveloped in Hard technical english that the mechanical skill of the author is what people read it for. Ulysses is a book people say they've read becauss it's literally made to be hard to read.

Stop huffing paint and stop mixing up the concepts. You're talking about color, not paint itself.

Both books are an elaborate joke that pretentious literary critics and historians (who are what they are because they can't write themselves) keep falling for nearly a century later.

paint is just suspended pigment, retard
it’s a medium used to strip unwanted wavelengths off the light reflected into your eyes
are you fucking retarded

Video games are art about as much as a ronald mcdonald figure is art.
Both are equally made up of things considered art.

I don't think games are art, but neither are marvel movies, for example
You can either talk about art as an institution, and therefore bideo games are not art in any case, or talk about an idea of "art" as an elevated and singular work, which is very vague and more of a case by case scenario

I'd be more inclined to call games like rainworld "art", only because its gameplay intentionally tells us something about ourselves and the medium itself

>institution
What? if you understand art as an institution you'd have potentially admit any form of expression into it. Institutions are by definition local, historical and constituted by variable and arbitrary elements.
Even literature hasn't been considered art during long historical periods.
>its gameplay intentionally tells us something about ourselves and the medium itself
Also does any other pirce of art.
>I don't think games are art, but neither are marvel movies, for example
So films as a medium can be considered as art but there are certain cases that don't make your subjective and arbitrary cut for being art. On the other hand, games as a medium are not art but there are certain cases that can be considered as 'art'.
Are you retarded?
Stupid threads like this one should begin by defining or at least giving some definition of art so we could easily know who should be excluded from any possible debate.

Games are games, not art. The only reason you think they're art is you play shitty storygames with blindingly shitty "HD" graphics and you confuse those for actual art.

>morons never played IPL game

And what's art, art and not games?

Othello is great. The other ones have interesting concepts, but aren't enjoyable to read.

are you retarded ? YOU have an arbitrary definition of art
I'm saying (to make it simple for retards)
1. I don't think games at this moment in time should be considered art
2. The answer to the question "is [something] art ?" depends of what "art" you're talking about, for example : there is an art institution and it includes people nailing their balls into the groud as art but not bideo games of any kind
3. "Also does any other pirce of art." that is exaclty my point, but the vast majority of bideo games do NOT do that at all and are just games for children

sorry but you're probably pretty dumb

—Hello, Bloom, Nosey Flynn said from his nook.

—Hello, Flynn.

—How’s things?

—Tiptop… Let me see. I’ll take a glass of burgundy and… let me see.

Sardines on the shelves. Almost taste them by looking. Sandwich? Ham and his descendants musterred and bred there. Potted meats. What is home without Plumtree’s potted meat? Incomplete. What a stupid ad! Under the obituary notices they stuck it. All up a plumtree. Dignam’s potted meat. Cannibals would with lemon and rice. White missionary too salty. Like pickled pork. Expect the chief consumes the parts of honour. Ought to be tough from exercise. His wives in a row to watch the effect. There was a right royal old nigger. Who ate or something the somethings of the reverend Mr MacTrigger. With it an abode of bliss. Lord knows what concoction. Cauls mouldy tripes windpipes faked and minced up. Puzzle find the meat. Kosher. No meat and milk together. Hygiene that was what they call now. Yom Kippur fast spring cleaning of inside. Peace and war depend on some fellow’s digestion. Religions. Christmas turkeys and geese. Slaughter of innocents. Eat drink and be merry. Then casual wards full after. Heads bandaged. Cheese digests all but itself. Mity cheese.

—Have you a cheese sandwich?

—Yes, sir.

lol.

>Length can determine if something is art
>If it is short and requires no skill it can be art
Where are these completely arbitrary boundaries coming from like says. And just because it requires skill doesn't mean it can't be art. Just because a blind person can't see a painting doesn't mean it's not art unless you are, by chance, a game journalist.

"No!"

This is bait though, isn't it?

>Can video games be art?

Yes.

>Posts James Joyce

Why would you post a picture of something not artistic when asking about art?

The faggot was a pretentious hack and help gave rise to post-modernism

>I don't think games at this moment in time should be considered art
Sure buddy, videogame designers and players don't care about your normative claims of how the world should be. There are a lot of game designers that use the medium to convey and produce complex thoughts through aesthetics (which includes game mechanics as well as and narrative) and to evoke emotions through that same means. And a lot of players that play games in order to experience the medium in those same terms.
>the vast majority of bideo games do NOT do that at all and are just games for children
The vast majority of literature doesn't have artistic pourpose or content, the same happens with films, even with painting.
Media is not artistic in itself, it's just the means through which the artistic content is trasmitted.

>Twain in shit tier.

This fuckin' guy.

Is sex art?

>buddy
lol
>complex thoughts
if you think that's complex thoughts, good for you, but retards are not allowed to give opinions
you clearly don't have any clue about the theory and the history behind art and its meaning lol
there is no actual argument in your post, you what you think people think and what you wanna believe, kill yourself

I actually gave a pretty clear definition of art, with more than enough precision for a melanesian canoecrafting imageboard.
The structure of an argument is not that one of a normative claim or a value judgement 'i think... that...should...'.
If you frame arguments that way it's pretty clear why you're unable to identify actual arguments.

Art is the process of making something creatively; it is not the thing created. Artists and artisans have the skills to create, and if their work of art has value, it will reflect either the values of the creator, or resonate with the consumer. Everybody seems to get the definition of art wrong, and although I get that the definition of a word can change, I think there’s value in remembering the original meaning.

ALL artwork is either entertainment, decoration, or tool. The artistry comes from what’s put into its creation.

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"Art" is a rather vague label that you could apply to pretty much anything under the right context. If some hipster New York douchebag can splatter paint over a toilet seat and people will unironically call that art, then why can't video games be art?

a definition is not an argument
you do not have countered anything I've said but attacked my personal opinion that I've presented as such
you are no more than a savage, uncultured and full of himself

If you get creative

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Joyce was a brapposter.
theparisreview.org/blog/2018/02/02/james-joyces-love-letters-dirty-little-fuckbird/