Super Smash Con 2019

okay marss

MkLeo is good, but Sakurai is a stupid, braindead idiot who ruined the competitive meta.

dump lewds
this "leo wins lol" shit is getting boring as fuck

LOOKING COOL JOKER

Soul vs Soulless

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This has been the most embarrassing smash ultimate tourney so far. Before this tourney Leo was playing better than his opponents and using Joker so it seemed he was just godly at this game. Now he's getting outplayed and still winning and it's abundantly clear that Joker is just unga bungaing him to victory.

>get hurt to gain meter
Fucking stupid, games stopped doing that shit for a reason.

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este es el fin el hombre negro de gay

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>commentator talking about "black excellence"
>sam proceeds to get btfo
get fucked nigger

is leo an unironic psychopath

>Ruins your game

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>That 60% kill
so is there a reason why arsene aerials are as strong as ganon aerials

Find your own lewds you 8 year old.

clips.twitch.tv/LongMoldyHerringKippa
look at their reaction
leo really seems like a nice guy

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LEO'S INSIDE HIS HEAD OH NO NO NO NO NO NO

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joker is cancer

BASED LEO DOES IT AGAIN, LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE BTFO

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HERE'S A FREE ARSENE BRO :)

damn that was based

*nerfs ivysaur for no reason*

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I think his ability is that he has the aura of invincibility. All of these zoomer opponents he plays are all ridden with anxiety, and fold like a wet paper towel under pressure.

L(oving)
E(very)
S(eethe)

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I find Leo's dominance less annoying than Hungrybox's, probably because Joker matches aren't nearly as boring as Jiggly's

GAME PUNISHES YOU FOR HITTING THE ENEMY AHAHAHAHAHAHA NICE "FIGHTING GAME"

Based

So it's over ?

At least this will get Joker nerfed soon enough.

Xth for Tw**k

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it's fucking over
THE EIGHTH TIME THIS YEAR MKLEO HAS KNOCKED OUT SAMSORA
THE E I G H T H TIME T H I S Y E A R

Samsora is dead inside

I'm so fucking happy people are mad about joker of all characters. Really shows how scrubby the smash community is. There's a reason it should've stayed a party game I guess

Lmao the crowd is ready to kill themselves. BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH ARSENE HE'S FUN TO WATCH THE CROWD ARE JUST JOKING

TWO TURNIPS
FULL ARSENE
FAIR AND BALANCED

arsene just comes in way too easily
he shouldn't be a thing until he's at kill %, you just get a full bar of arsene from like 50%

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Why the fuck does Samsora keep throwing turnips?

we need a hoes mad joker bros

Every single tournament MK Leo shows me something new that makes me dumbfounded at the brass balls he has.

I was mad just watching the last game of the previous set

>everyone will bitch about arsene being overpowered
>retards don't realize the real problem is sakurai and nintendo nerfing all the other characters
Tweek had that game 5 in huge advantage, except Ivysaur spike didn't kill at 70% because that moron Sakurai nerfed it.

Joker left alone though. The idiotic jap has no clue.

Once Arsene is out the matches are actually more boring.

The crowd unironically fucked it up. Tournament stock against Leo you shut the fuck up until its guaranteed. Otherwise your darling will buckle and Leo will begin the dismantling.

Is Arsene a problem?

clips.twitch.tv/BelovedGiantOpossumPRChase

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can't tell which one is soul

Fuck off hotpockets

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>Samsora
>winner bracket
>underdog

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>leo just sandbags until he's down 2 games because he's so bored with his ""competition"" and has to entertain himself with reverse 3/6-0s

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Guys, playing badly and getting beaten SHOULD reward you. Otherwise players might feel bad and then we won't see the epic comebacks that crowds love even though the crowd is completely dead right now.

What was the picture that got deleted?

but he looks so cool

>complaining about the Ivysaur nerf
Tweek, stop balding and start studying those replays

>Lucario has comeback mechanic that makes his moves stronger and better
>No one ever bats an eye
>Joker gets something similar to it with his Persona
>OHM YG OD BROKEN CHARACTER LITERALLY REWARED FOR PLAYING BAD
what did we mean by this?

joker has no kill power without arsene. just watch the fucking match.

he knows mkleo is getting hungry, it's been a while since his last break

>either you body Joker and he gets a free transformation into a fusion of Sheik and Ganon to shift momentum in his favor, or you get bodied by Joker and if you mount a comeback you get your momentum taken away from you for free by Arsene
>all while being ungimpable and having more combos than most characters in his "bad" form
All it takes is someone with good execution to expose how broken this character is.

>samsora edge guards with turnips
>leo down b's two turnips and recovers with arsene
what did he expect?

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BIM BAM BOUM
LES JEUX DE COMBAT
PIF PAF POUF
C'EST POUR LES TAFIOLES

Arsene makes them real fucking boring

Joker is really fun to watch

>People wanted Ike and inkling to be nerfed
>Didn't happen
Based sakurai not listening to faggots like you

amazing how fast fans turn on players when they play a character they come to hate

We are in the prescence of the Smash GOAT and all you guys can do is complain about Joker needing to be nerfed.

Bow before him

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What is going on through his mind?

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...

Get fucked peach no projectile camping 4 u

Based

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If Samsora couldn't win having a 2-1 advatage he probably doesn't deserve to win.

I’m starting to get early smash 4 zero diddy flashbacks, where zero dominates every fucking tourney with hoo hah until it’s nerfed and he dips like a faggot

>haha you thought you could throw two whole projectiles at me off-stage? That's an Arsene for me :^)

and by do it I meant choke

Isabelle!

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is p. peach a virgin

>punished for hitting your enemy
uhhhhh smashfags?

this spic has won the past 5 supermajors god damn it

he needs to go back

protobanham can beat leo in a best of 5

Lucario is mediocre outside of his jank and relies on being at high %. Joker is decent without Arsene and he gets it way too easily.

Lucario's moveset is fucking awkward, also people have bitched about his gimmick before because it's still awful.

>leo wins again

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This is fucking over

He got away with it AGAIN

Leo needs to win more until Joker is heavily nerfed so he can go back to honest mains like Ike.

Throwing projectiles to Joker on stage is just giving him meter. Its Samsora's fault and it was Nairo's fault before

Because it's both stronger than aura and mostly independent from percentage, this can trigger it more often. I don't think Joker is busted but Arsene needs to be toned way the fuck down.

This is just boring as soon as Arsene shows up. I just start checking the thread and other tabs as soon as it happens because there's no real entertainment to be gained from it.

Yo what's up with foot fetish kek

I know he's losing right now, but we need to add Samsora as LA EXCELENCIA NEGRA

samsora doesn't deserve to win for choking

SAMNIGGER BOUT TO GET BEANED

>joker has no kill power without arsene
Joker has kill confirms it doesn't mean shit

WHY ARE ARSENE AERIALS AS STRONG AS GANON'S AND AS FAST AS SHEIKS FUCK THIS FUCKING CHARACTER

Lucario doesn't get massive, safe normals and is utter trash below 70%. He's only good at percentages where he dies in a hit or two. Joker is a better Sheik at worst and becomes the best character in the game for 20 seconds after a single counter or just taking 50%.

I don't think anybody really dislikes Leo. Nobody likes him either though because he's boring as fuck and has no personality.

I can now say with confidence that Melee is the better game.

I'm not calling for nerfs you mentally defective idiot. I'm criticizing Sakurai for unnecessary nerfs based on feedback from utter morons like yourself.

two arsenes a stock is not fucking ok

Shitty one trick players.

The entire Arsene mechanic is based around rewarding the player for choking and getting shit on.

Arsene is literally a crutch

>no one ever bats an eye
Zero bitched about him to an insane degree in 4. In Brawl there were entire doubles strategies (Anubis) around exploiting it and people called it cancer. He just isn't as good in neutral in this game, but if he was it would be just as bad. He's terrible design

LOL
SPICS > NIGGERS

the white man is pleased with these colors fighting for my entertainment

TRUMP WAS FUCKING RIGHT

BEANED.com

>his smile and optimism
>gone
Samsora right now

cry harder bitch

leo is god.

I fucking cant bros. Say what you will about joker, NOBODY could do this except leo.

>play a good character
>people get mad that you're playing a good character in a competitive video game where money and fame are at stake

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This is actually more hype than the Evo GF reverse sweep, don't @ me

Won't matter - brainlets will always bitch about whatever MKLeo is playing.
There were people here crying that Ike's Nair into Fair was "broken".

JOKER LITERALLY HAS NO WEAKNESSES
NERF THIS PIECE OF SHIT ALREADY

There's nothing wrong with that clip. Samsora played like a retard throwing slow projectiles against Leo.

She's been kidnapped like 20 times and there was enough room for her to doubt Bowser Jr. being her son.

Joker is def the best char in the game right now but leo is also just way better at keeping his composure opposed to samsora who blew a huge ass lead and is just phoning it in now

Hating on joker and liking peach is like hating on fox/marth in melee and liking jiggs, only really retarded people are like that but there’s more and more of them every new game

>it's the smash 4 zero all over again
Remember when they nerfed Diddy yet zero still dominated with him? It'll happened with Leo too

The lighter the better.

someone answer me. why are you punished so hard for hitting joker?

I love Mori Summer!

>what is joker back air?

Not saying Leo isn't insanely good, just saying it's not enjoyable to watch.

Just make base Joker trash, keep Arsene as the win condition but make it so if you don't have Arsene you're shit.

New thread:

>Peach pulls a bomb
>Joker just fucking shoots it
lmao

>wins
>decides to activate FORMA DE LEOOOOOOOOOO

Who put Leo in losers?

MKLeo is the GOAT

How can you still be a seething joker baby now? Just accept that its the player.

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OLE OLE
OLE OLE

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who knows?

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>what is Bair
>What is dragdown Smash attacks
retard

Ike is nowhere near as good as Joker though. It's not even a competition.

jokerbros i think we are getting nerfed...

Samsora

Joker isn't the problem you fucking idiots. Sakurai and Nintendo are for constant character nerfs.

Joker - untouched.

Peach - heavily nerfed.
Pokemon Trainer - heavily nerfed

Take those two nerfs away, you have a completely different outcome. Incompetent jap developers are the problem.

lol the coon puttered out

MKLeo being amazing and Joker being overtuned are not mutually-exclusive concepts.

Carried by Joker

because smash is a party game

Fuck peach she should be nerfed to the ground fucking gay ass character

It's balanced bro just get good.

>when Leo taps into his aztec superhuman powers
AYAYAYAAAAIIIIIII
youtube.com/watch?v=XUhVCoTsBaM

Nairo outplayed him
Tweek outplayed him
Samsora outplayed him
He's carried.

MKLeo is a good player but Joker is seriously busted

>Hating on joker and liking peach is like hating on fox/marth in melee and liking jiggs
Not even remotely.

>character has overtuned move
>top player abuses it
That's all it is, and it's boring when it's the only thing that makes a character have too much reward for such little creativity of the toolkit/play.
Most of them in this game it's Nair spam (Ike, Palu, Fox somewhat, etc.) where reward is overly favored for getting a long lasting move to hit/trade, other can be centric around a particular move as well such as up tilt on Falco or Lucina back air where the reward is extremely valuable for how spammable the move is.
This is nothing new and was in Smash 4 as well (ZSS/Luigi and grabs, Mewtwo spamming down tilt and nothing else) but Joker is Smash 4 Cloud 2.0.
No other character gets so much reward on losing exchanges AGAIN like Cloud did and entire gameplay can come to a crawl because of a special status buff being too strong.
Also fuck drag down combos not leading people into a tumble state so they can tech it

AWAKEN MY MASTERS

>BUILD THE WALL LOOOL LMAO
>SEND THIS MEXICAN HOME LOOOOOOOOOL

GET

F
U
C
K
E
D

Did waifufags really think he could win?

yeah I don't think this semen slurping game is for me guys

at least big leff won bros

DESCARGADO

>Peach
>heavily nerfed
>pokemon trainer
>heavily nerfed
you don't play either of them retard, that's obvious
t. someone who plays both

MEXICO
E
X
I
C
O

Does Sakurai ever consider whether characters are fun to play against anymore? Having a Ganon running around at fast speeds every minute doesn't seen fun to fight at all.

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What kind of cursed game is this in which down throw kills off the TOP

This.
MKLeo is crazy good to be able to pull this off, but there were many points during the past three sets where Arsene saved him.

mkleo has some sort of magical protection right? how does someone get their back put against the wall so many times and then claw back?

Joker is currently the problem comparatively because he wasn't nerfed while others were. How the fuck do you not understand that's what people mean? Of course people know that the devs are behind the characters and how they play.

MEXICO WINS AGAIN BABYY

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>the problem isn't that joker is overpowered, its that everyone else is underpowered

sam was fucking robbed

It's the worst gimmick in any game.

B A S A D O

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better player lost
ultimate will remain trash.

>sam just sitting there getting slowly covered in confetti
jesus christ

It's literally like a replay from Evo.

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Joker is fucking broken thats why

>up 2-1
>3 stocks to 1
>choke
>get 3-0'd next set
>sitting there while confetti falls
being Samsora must be suffering

This tournament damaged Ultimate's competitive value to me. Might not watch for a while, it was kind of embarrassing.

Aww man, I feel bad for Leo, he can't enjoy the moment because the crowd is being faggots.

YOU'LL NEVER SEE IT
CU
MMING

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How can he be so good? I can't wrap my brain around it.

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>Samsora

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>Arsene two times a stock

And I think he was still holding back with the counter baiting.

LEO PENETRATED SAMSORA WHO MADE AN AHEGAO FACE

New thread:

PUNISHED FOR WINNING AHAHAHAHAHAHA

OH NO NO NO NO

>Proceeds to beat the top 2, 3 and 4 players in a row from losers.

Jesus fuck. He's unstoppable.

Jesus way to suck all the fucking life out of the event. The crowd was ready to lose their minds for Samsora and then everyone looked ready to slit their wrists as Leo was winning.

OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE

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Apologize.

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I'm happy for leo, the amount of damage peach got to get with one combo vs non arsene joker was stupid

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>The nigger lost
Best timeline.

Said it before and I'll say it again, two games is all Leo needs to download his oponent

Arsene saved his ass multiple times in those sets

N-ni siquiera la excelencia negra puede contra este monstruo!

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gimping and kill confirms are not kill power what the fuck are you talking about.

R I G G E D
I
G
G
E
D

Seriously. Why is every fighting game trying to push this retarded mechanic? Everyome hates it. How are devs so deaf.

B A S E D

HOES MAD

it just exposes how busted joker is

everyone else who uses him is just an omega brainlet

What a joke. Smash died with brawl.

>combos
>zoning
>range
>recovery
>speed
Pick 5 lmao. What a joke(r) of a character

SONY WINS AGAIN

>Peach - heavily nerfed.
Peach's nerfs were fairly small.
>Pokemon Trainer - heavily nerfed
Pokemon Trainer was actually buffed overall with tiny nerfs to Ivysaur in particular.

why arent we hearing the crowd . u can hear them everytime the commentators talk. great mixing gimr!

>samsora

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Samsora did his best but he is merely a human, and a human cannot hope to win against a god.

>2 stocks up on set point
>chokes lead
>proceeds to lose that set and next set

Leo is legitimately fucking insane. It's like he's not even fucking trying until he's about to lose.

APOLOGIZE

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Turning Ivysaur into a situational option is a fucking heavy nerf for trainer.
You underestimation how much that effect the character rotation.

My taste > your taste, last I checked peach was defensive campy cancer and joker is aggressive

Being up 2 games on Leo has to be scary as fuck

The real answer is DLC characters are almost always bullshit in a way
Just look at Cloud for tr4sh doubles and Bayo for singles

ESTO ES EL FIN, NIGGER

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FUCK OFF FAGGOT

Leo is the ZeRo of Ultimate. Winning this right after EVO hard confirms it.

Hate Leo all you want, but no one plays Arsene/Joker on the same lvl he does.

Just to put it in perspective: Void, a lab monster, couldn't push Joker to Top 32.

>200 replies

this is a tremendous amount of dickriding, lol

fucking broken piece of shit character, bayo part 2.

so is this leo guy just on another level compared to everyone else
i don't follow ultimate

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JUST DONT HIT JOKER BRO LOL!

A garbage player like yourself is in no position to argue on the matter, moron.

You're the one failing to understand, idiot.

Joker shouldn't be nerfed. The real problem is that other characters were nerfed when they shouldn't have been.

Nintendo should've balanced the game by buffing underpowered characters, but they listened to whiney idiots like yourself crying for nerfs.

Yeah nigga some people get mad when DLC kills their favorite game

Looking cool, Joker!

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MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
>MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
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MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
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MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
>MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
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MECHANIC DESIGNED TO REWARD LOSING PLAY
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Fuck off, this thread aint over

Joker isn't super duper busted BUT he just needs these changes
>Rebellion Gauge needs to raise slower
>No buff to its speed when a stock behind
>Arsene needs to last like 25% less long

There was not a single moment in any of sets that he won where he was getting outplayed.

MvC3 X-factor "hype" and Sakurai's undying love for "anyone can win regardless of skill"

If you think back air isn't fucking good you're a retard

poor Samsora got the FORMA DE LEEEOOO leo

it's not joker, leo is good with every player he plays

"Hoes mad, Peaches sad"

amazing

HOES MAD

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BASED

You know, I'll say this, counters are fucking stupid

>pt nerfed
>peach nerfed
>wolf nerfed
>pichu nerfed
>joker left untouched
DUDE

zero would whoop leo's ass in ult if he played

>DAE JOKER IS DAE BROKEN
>literally one joker in top 32 and its leo
ok

Reminder that all the Jokers at Evo and smashcon drowned in pools.
Reminder that Nairo tried to ride the Joker bandwagon, but got 3 stocked by a Fox.
Reminder that literally no one else in the world plays at Leo's level.

Joker isn't the problem. Leo is.

Hoes Mad

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he is.

And tell me how he managed to get Arsene so many times?

Oh that's right, actually outplaying the ledge traps and the edge guards from everyone he faced and turning it into an advantage.

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This isn't gonna help the whole "Joker is broken pay2win" shitposting is it

>J-joker is OP!
>meanwhile Nairo and Void fumble around on the character and Leo was the only Joker to place well at evo

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ESTO ES EL FIN EL M A Y A T E

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GENTLEMEN, HOW DO WE STOP MKLEO?

He kills at 110-120 with smash attacks, which he has confirms into.

Tweek needs to seriously pick up Ridley

Way to miss the point you utter moron. It's not about other characters being underpowered, it's about them being NERFED when they didn't need to.

>up 2-1 winners side
>up 3-1 stocks
>choke
>proceed to get 4-0'd the rest of the way
>this happened to both Tweek and Sam

This has to be fucking scripted

There's a reason MKLeo is literally the only relevant Joker player and every other Joker drowns in pools.

People just bitch about literally every character MKLeo picks up.

How would you change joker to not having to charge arsene?

kill yourselves, joker is broken and Leo is a hack.

He really is, the dude is constantly winning massive tournaments without breaking a sweat
He's stupid good and only benefits the longer you go against him

>goes to losers to get more matchup experience
>deliberately drops two games to see the hope drain out of his opponent's eyes when he robs them
Based

>people crying about Joker
if he's that broken, where are the other Joker players?

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I'm starting to think Leo is a super autist that doesn't realise the position he is in so he doesn't feel any pressure.

There isn't other explanation for what happens.

>literally the only ranked player that main Joker

Yep, sounds right.

character*

>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
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>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
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>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
>COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING
COMEBACK MECHANICS ARE A NEW THING

Arsene is a bit overtuned desu

MKLeo is literally the Mereum of Ultimate. He reads his opponent's rhythm and uses it against them. He can wring water from stone. He's basically the Armada of Ultimate. He's close to being the Magnus Carlsen of Smash.

sorry

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>this mad because tweek and samsora choked out of their fucking mind

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The fact that Joker basically invalidates zoners because
>lol I get Arsene now XD
is kinda bad. The amount of Arsene charge you get from projectiles should be drastically reduced. Getting Arsene from TWO turnips is retarded.

And Ike and Lucina, lmao. I was just quoting EE as well, cry more.

BASADO KRILLIN

fucking this. one player being insanely good with a character doesn't mean it is broken if no one else can be half as good as him. what a bunch of bitches you are.

Who can stop him?

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charizard was buffed, cuck

Today was the first time I watched Ultimate in a tourney format beyond the first month. Leo did the same few confirm combos against every single character. It's absurd how people can think that that's fine, that his combos literally work no matter the fall speed or weight of the character.

Name one weakness Joker has.

>Lucario

>send Leo to losers just to lose the entire tournament to him
Even more devastating than Tweek's loss at EVO.

Also, I really hate it when the players just give up after the bracket reset.

Hes super cool under pressure and his comebacks mentally break his opponents. They get so close but choke near the end and cant come back.

Leo is the king at grasping victory at the brink of defeat, jesus christ.

It's like he's just fucking sandbagging until the last minute.

Make it so he doesn't gain so much meter on hit, Arsene is just too easy to get.

I wish MKLeo was more charismatic or just entertaning. At least m2k is an entertaining and based robot, MKLeo is literally personalityless and that makes me not want to root for him against other players

Just remove arsene entirely, problem solved

Leave NIGGERS to me

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everyone just sucked dick then, literally no lucina or Ikes are relevant anymore other than 1 fuck.

There were things that needed tuning down (before DLC powercreep started hard). Wolf's dsmash was definitely over the top with knockback, and Pichu's ftilt was retarded as fuck

How to "fix" Joker:
1) Cut Arsene time in half
2) Remove the "get hit, get meter" shit, force him to use Rebel's Guard
Leo still wins because he can easily kill without it due to his godlike reaction time and fair1/dragdown upair

That crowd was absolutely fucking deflated lmao

t. mad hoe

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Ridley? The fuck?

He's perfectly fine. He was building Arsene off of turnips all game, and Samsora couldn't adjust to one of Peach's core tools being shut down.

If he was actually busted at all, we would be seeing a LOT more Jokers. But we aren't lmfao.

Based Hunterbro

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No shit, that doesn't change the fact that theory!Joker is poorly designed and broken. UMvC3's best core was Morridoom and only a couple players ever successfully pulled it off, yet nobody denies it wasn't the utter best core of the game.

Leo being the best in the world and Arsene being busted are not mutually exclusive. Why isn't Leo playing Lucina if it doesn't make a difference?

He's playing a top tier character, but he's also the best player in the world. Joker could use some nerfs, but there's a reason why no one else ever makes top 8 playing Joker.

PUNISHED FOR DOING DAMAGE LOL
PUNISHED FOR DOING DAMAGE LOL
PUNISHED FOR DOING DAMAGE LOL
PUNISHED FOR DOING DAMAGE LOL
PUNISHED FOR DOING DAMAGE LOL

>joker comeback mechanic
>work twice as hard to win match
>everything require twice the input, quadruple the instinct
>get heavily exhausted
>lose the longer the matches goes

>SFAT winning
How far back did you have to go to find that one?

he's only like that since he cant fully express himself in english. He cant let his spanish banter through

why are zoomers so op?

>Peach's nerfs were fairly small.
Blatantly wrong. Forward air got a massive nerf, and that's by far her best kill move. Samsora had several forward airs against Leo that would've killed pre-nerf, but didn't. Meanwhile Leo still gets his 50% kill confirms.

They also increased the lag for pulling out turnips, which is HUGE in the context of neutral. Leo harassed him non stop as he was pulling them out. Again, another example of Leo benefiting directly from Nintendo's idiotic input.

>Pokemon Trainer was actually buffed overall with tiny nerfs to Ivysaur in particular.
Charizard will always be garbage.

Ivysaur was the main kill confirmer, and he lost a shit ton of kill power. Again, down air nerf directly cost Tweek a huge stock advantage.

He has shonen anime powers. Mexico's shit taste in anime is finally paying off.

Just make Arsene last less long, everyone has success with Leo when they just didn't engage with the thing. His kit is insane.

>starts tweeting literally seconds after winning on evo main stage, in front of a crowd of thousands
>"I'm soooo happy"
he's a giga autist, and not the cool kind like wizzrobe

HE
IS
MEXICAN

>Can we leave???

void, nairo, and zackray can't get results after picking him up. what the fuck are you talking about?

haha I love watching a game die before my eyes HOES MAD XD

it LITERALLY is
this was all unveiled by Zack

>please let me projectile camp daddy sakurai

>Little Mac
Mac's meter is only for one move, and the character as a whole is fucking garbage. Also unlike Joker and Cloud, Mac has literally never won any tourney.

end your life you permavirgin weeb

>At least m2k is an entertaining and based robot
No he is not.
There's a reason why his streams don't get views and he's starting to realize that.

They only use him because DUDE ARSENE LMAO. MK Leo has mastered Joker's entire kit and he has shown us new shit at every single tournament, and yet, nobody is doing even a quarter of the shit Leo does with the character. You can easily make a Bible that details how to play the character by looking at his matches uploaded on youtube.

Not a waifu

esTO ES EL FIN, NIIGASORA

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keep the same amount of Arsene meter you get on a successful down B, but change it so that if you dont use rebel's guard *at all* he doesnt get it until like 120%.

High risk high reward.

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Leo has outright said he's prefer Arsene nerfs for slight Joker buffs without him.

zero was carried the whole way through smash 4. Leo took a shit on every bayonetta with multiple characters. Leo took the 2gg championship. Kill yourself fag

Lucario wishes he could have Arsene. Plus lots of Lucario's moves suck. More damage isn't going to make Lucario's sucky moves suddenly not suck.

Joker gains new properties on every single one of his moves. It's nowhere near comparable.

This. You can tell everytime he starts losing he changes his gameplan and adapts. Against Tweek at Evo he stopped challenging Squirtle head-on and learned to punish Tweek's unsafe switches. Against Samsora tonight he zones her out and shuts down the turnips instead of getting caught up in her free 0->50% combos.

>He was building Arsene off of turnips all game
He was getting most of his Arsene's just from getting combo'd(sometimes getting two in one stock). Relatively few was from Rebel Guard in comparison.

Leo is basically mini ZeRo.

That happened before the Ivy nerf, you retard

Ivysuar was BARELY touched outside of Down Air, and the patch was considered a net gain by nearly every trainer main. aerial Vine Whip still kills incredibly early when it counts, and Razor Leaf's extra lag was like 3-4 frames
Peach's biggest nerf was Back Throw, Fair is still incredibly good as you no doubt have seen and Turnips are still oppressive as fuck.
Don't talk about shit you don't understand
likewise, bitch. Pathetic that you had to run to a new thread because you weren't getting the (You)s you wanted
I... know? What does this have to do with me?

I did the EVO comeback to win SSC! I made a huge comeback and then reset the bracket and won! Im so hapoy even tho a lot of people hate me and are talking trash, im still happy with my win :) i just have to say joker is honest @echofoxgg #FOXWIN

The balls on this fuck

No, nothing needed to be nerfed. Just because low skill trash like yourself can't handle it doesn't merit a nerf.

Nerfs only ever slow down games and make 2 stock matches more viable. If you're going to balance the game, Nintendo should be BUFFING other less powerful characters.

EE is fucking hilarious

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That's exactly why he wins though. He's a fucking robot. Everyone chokes against him while he never chokes because he has no goddamn emotions.

IF ARSENE IS OVERTUNED WHY DIDN'T NAIRO WIN?
IT'S NOT FAIR NAIROBROS

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Hoes mad is literally u mad but twitter-flavored because twitter can't make original memes

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I'm going to train extra hard for a year, and I am going to win EVO 2020 with SHULK.
Screencap this

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Then he'll just go back to Ike and start nairing people into oblivion again.

Bad out of shield options, and does not like to get crossed-up.

How was leo in smash4? And what was zero's win streak?

>125% damage taken to get Arsene
>Arsene stays 25% less time
>Rebellion Gauge fills the same rate regardless of stock deficit
I'm a Joker main but anyone who doesn't think he's an easy best character in the game is stupid.

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>Huntercucks

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Of course hbox tries to force himself onto the camera

He'll get to it when Joker is nerfed and he doesn't simply find another replacement so Lucina doesn't get nerfed as quickly.

I think joker represents a problem I have with most of smash post brawl where everything has to be over designed and gimmicked.

watch game 4 of the first set again

Sam had to work 10 times harder that entire set only for arsene to come around and wave his fat cock in the air and take it back with 0 effort

...and neither of them truly mained Joked.
Just look at Nairo joker, he have no fucking clue on what to do with him.

Leo on the other hand said that he have a second character ready, but no matter how far he fall behind he never pull it out.

>Hurr why didnt Nairo do well with his secondary (tertiary?) as well as someone else's Main

sakurai, but he won't

CHROM

Joker is only a problem at equal skill levels. If you're better than him than him getting Arsene doesn't matter as much because you can hit him and lower the meter faster.

However if you're at equal skill levels and have to approach Arsene then you're fucked because he just needs a handful of hits and you're either dead or at kill percent. Or you can lame him the fuck out but then he gets to freely spam gun and side B at you for free damage. And reminder he gets Arsene for free once a stock and sometimes twice a stock. And more often when you're losing. It's a fundamentally busted design that forces you to completely change your gameplan 4-5 times a match. It's actually perfect for an emotionless robot like Leo. It's like Limit on steroids except smash 4 Cloud could be gimped easily.

And even then he was still pounded and stalled out in previous games and sets despite getting Arsene so often and early. It actually doesn't mean shit as long as you play well or play around his mechanic.

How to succeed in Ultimate right now
>pick up joker
>win
do your fucking job sakurai

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leo was arguably the best in smash 4 but only towards the end of the game's life

He was top 3 I think, he was a cloud-fag
I think Leo had a 57 tournament unbeaten run

>Chrom as his backup
yeah I think I'm okay with Joker on him for now

You bitches said the same thing with Hero and there was no Hero at Top 64, let alone a relevant one.

Stay fucking mad that Leo just proved Ultimate still has years of research ahead compared to Melee.

I watch tons of esports like the loser I am.

The biggest thing that's consistent across every game I watch is that no matter how much they show up, the 'weaker' palyer will always have "I shouldn't be beating this guy, he's better than me" playing in the back of their heads, and 99% of the time that makes them lose and that's why they stay the weaker player.
This is why Leo turns it around so much. His opponents get to the final round to knock him out and they start thinking "HOLY SHIT I'M GOING TO BEAT MKLEO AND WIN THE TOURNAMENT" and then the moment that shit gets in their head they stop thinking about the game and instead start thinking about how they shouldn't even be able to win, which of course spirals into them inevitably losing.

It's a sad thing. You need to rid your mind of that shit, but it's a hard thing to do.

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>Arsene being busted are not mutually exclusive
But it is. Why can no other player make top 8 with Joker if Arsene is such a problem?

HOES MAD HOES MAD HOES MAD

That's his surprise swodie backup? wtf. Shoyo James going to neck himself

Remove joker's comeback mechanic completely and he's balanced.

>offstage, you die
>basically never died offstage
lol this nigga shameless

He was starting to take over Zero as best in the bizz, but Smash 4 died before it could happen

He's not your fucking clown.

HE IS GONNA USE CHROM NEXT
NERF CHROMMMMMMMM AAAAAAHHHH SAKURAIIIIIIIIII NERF CHROM RIGHT NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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You mean netplaying subs trying to make $5 while 1000 people watch is gay and boring as fuck? He is just a bit retarded.

ESTO ES EL FIN NIGGERA

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Joker is more entertaining than Fox and Marth.

he's a god

zero won like 55 tournaments in a row. towards the end of smash4 leo was among the best, he played a lot of cloud and marth

You sound like one of those people who legitimately complains about zelda and duck hunt.

If you can't deal with a game where nothing besides rushdown is viable maybe you should play SFV instead.

>be you
>pick joker
>don't even make top 500 out of 600 entrants
LMAO

And yet, how many Joker mains other than Leo have made top 32, or even top 8?

Yeah, and that makes Leo unstoppable because he's at least equal or higher in skill level to everyone else, so there's no fucking reason to even watch the tournaments anymore unless Arsene or something about Joker is changed in some way because Leo just won't lose with the Arsene mechanic as it currently is.

>easy character
>NO ONE IN TOP 32 IN EVO
yeah sure.

This. This is also why Asians are so good at esports. They know how to purge themselves of all emotions.

> 4 (FOUR) JOKERS IN TOP 64

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO JOKER IS FUCKING OP, ITS BAYO ALL OVER AGAIN

Shut the fuck up.

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I'd rather watch Chrom than Joker honestly

Zero had some ridiculous 50+ tournament streak, but Leo finished #1 in smash 4 for its last season

So is leo the ult killer like how everyone pretty much expected zero to win every tournament? I hope not cause it killed any drive to watch tournaments

and why do you think they haven't switched to joker? because they can't pull off the shit Leo does. he makes it look easy. you balance the game based on results, you retards. joker has no results but with leo. deal with it.

>Blatantly wrong. Forward air got a massive nerf, and that's by far her best kill move.
Fair got a medium sized nerf and it was the only notable nerf she got at all.
That's a small nerf seen over the character as a whole.
>Ivysaur was the main kill confirmer, and he lost a shit ton of kill power
Fuck no he didn't. He lost a tiny amount of Kill power on Vine Whip, and the Down Air isn't even nerfed in terms of kill power, it just requires more precision.

I love Leo winning, it definitely highlights how shit Yea Forums is at this game.

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I'm in favor of mostly buffs to nerfs, but I would rather not just keep overtuning the game until everything is killing at 70%. Pichu's ftilt is a prime example of a move that was just not fully thought out. It was just straight up better than fsmash while being ridiculously safe. Only retards think all buffs and no nerfs are healthy if the game already has fucked shit. You just don't nerf FOTM winning but not dominating characters for winning. You adjust shit for blatantly dumbing down gameplay and interactions. Anyone with any sense are saying that Joker's counter needs the nerf more than anything else.

>peach
>work hard
(lol ultimatebaby

no, he's just the only one that bothered to actually learn joker

it's almost like... ARSENE IS NOT AUTO WIN WTF? YOU HAVE PUT SKILL INTO IT? WTF WTF

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Leo only came into the limelight near the end of Sm4sh's life. At that point he was still losing to Tweek, but you could tell he was on the cusp of becoming the GOAT.

m2k is not entertaining at all.

None of the current top smash players are particularly charismatic

Because he's hard to master, but once you get to his level he's just far and away the best character in the game. Answer the question now, why doesn't he play Lucina?

Joker literally saved Ultimate from being a snoozefest. He's the most interesting and technical character on the entire roster

Not only that, he's so specialized that one player can actually win at the top level with him so you won't see a bayonetta and metaknight mirror match situation

Joker is the best character and the most healthy character in Ultimate

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because people are too fucking retarded to switch from their shitty mains. I guarentee in the next 2 months there will be 10 times as many Jokers in top 32/64
kill yourself

I didn't say he was an easy character, I said he was easily the best character.

Babbies first false-flag

King Crimson was so overrated.

Lol, Zero looks salty.

No because he was trounced in a major before Evo, and came ridiculously close to getting killed by Tweek and Samsora just this tournament. He's not nearly as dominant as Zero was.

I don't even see the point in watching the tourneys anymore since everyone knows Leo will comeback with Arsene and win.

But white man got 3rd place lmao.
So it's actually
Spic>Nig>Incel

>>pick up joker
>>win
>when Leo is the only Joker in top 64

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No it didn't you stupid idiot.

Leo's giving an interview right now and he bemoans how he can't kill Peach and co. until near 200%. Joker is dogshit without Arsene.

does anyone have op's pic?

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>kill yourself

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In his interview, Leo says hes getting lucky and when hes about to lose he says "fuck it i might as well start to go in". Its funny how hes as surprised as we are at how he gets these comebacks.

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>"Joker not the best character"
>"He's only top 5"
lol.

read you fucking troglodyte

People don't like Joker because Arsene requires you to be a passive player when he's out. It's shit game design.

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Well, it's a good thing that Joker can get Arsene in 30 seconds easily.

>until near 200%
that rarely ever happened in-match, though?
why'd he say that when it didn't happen

>even Leo says he got lucky to win
Hmmmm

Arsene is kinda busted but samsora/tweek are both choking cucks who deserved to lose

>I need to stall
Just like Zero?

>pay 5.99
>win every single tournament

I would be too.
Leo is doing a pretty good job of toppling his legacy, and in a generally more popular game

>likewise, bitch
I always love it when complete morons like yourself have literally 0 argument. Good job moron.

>Because he's hard to master,
Samsora, Tweek, Nairo, and Void are not masters? All of them have tried to pick up Joker and all have failed.

Or I could just play melee and ban jiggs peach and ice climbers.

People said the same thing three months ago. It was only Leo making waves back then, and nothing has changed since.

>epic wojak face edit
you already lost the argument

that didn't stop people from switching to bayoneta in Smash 4 and they did it day 1.

>parrying Peach's recovery leads to kills
haha melee sucks am I right ult chads

but Ultimate sucks lol

lollllll let EE go home for fucks sake.

English isn't even his fucking first language, he's not robotic at all he's just humble

This. ARSENE ENCOURAGES LAME SHITTY PLAY, HE'S NOT OVERPOWERED HE'S JUST FUCKING BORING AND THE SMARTEST MOVE AGAINST HIM IS TO JUST NOT PLAY THE FUCKING VIDEO GAME FOR AS LONG AS YOU CAN

Poor Hero, what will become of him.

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Hero is absolutely a character that if he's broken it'll take multiple months to figure out, he's got a lot of shit. Joker is currently broken. Leo was never this good with Ike or Lucina, he got regularly dicked over by Tweek and even lost to ESAM. Now he just gets outplayed and unga bunga Arsenes people to death.
>b-but why is Leo the only Joker?
Because Leo is the only top 10 player to put a shitload of time in the character. Notice how there's only one top tier Pikachu player? ZSS player? Peach player? That doesn't mean these characters aren't really fucking good.
Plus Joker's not easy, there's a lot to his kit you need to figure out. But once you become very good with him he's broken and idiotic.

>no arguments

>I gotta pee bad
>I'm gonna open up this cup of noodles and make a deposit.

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>and technical character on the entire roster
literally Peach and ICs

>Lets playing chrom next
Cant wait for the "nerf chrom" fags

Why do that when Arsene-less Joker can do so much more?

just wait

since when did rarely mean never, you dumdum?

He killed Samsora at 66. He can fuck right off.

But we had that back in day 0.

A FUCKING GAME AND WATCH MADE IT IN TOP 8 FUCKING GAME AND WATCH. WHY DON'T YOU PATHETIC FUCKING CASUALS TRY TO GET GOOD WITH YOUR CHARACTERS INSTEAD OF CRYING LIKE BITCHES?

>WAAAAAH NERF EVERY CHARACTERS THAT IS NOT MY MAIN WAAAAAH

>he got regularly dicked over by Tweek and even lost to ESAM
Leo had a 50/50 record against Tweek prior to Joker. He also lost to Marss, Samsora, and some rando Megaman.

Do you even follow the comp scene?

It's
O-LEO LEO LEO-E. LEO. LEO.

>Peach and ICs
They are trash and campy characters. Try again.

Chrom was already known as a dishonest character from the early days of Ultimate

he's a top 10 player that has almost been unbeatable since switching to joker. so some people are claiming joker carried him

He kinda is, Joker is fundamentally too strong in some areas, but his weaknesses are pretty pronounced so not everyone can ungabunga button mash with him and win like bayonetta in smash4

Wait a minute... Nairo also played Joker for one match but... He didn't win...
BROS... BROS WHAT IS THIS... HAVE YOU ALL BEEN LYING TO ME???????? YOU SAID IF I PAID FOR DLC I WOULD WIN, THEN WHY DIDN'T NAIRO WIN????????? BROS PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH ME BROS AAAAAAAAAAA

this happen at least once each match.

I hope mkleo busts him out

>Smash Ult Top 8
holy shit, why do you fags need another tournament right after evo?

Stop saying that shit retard, all that matters is that he got first. Hes not some strange lone main fighting with his hand behind his back. Hes obviously super top tier. Probably right next to PT

He will never use Chrom against an actually good player.

he's being humble. he has won tournaments with other characters as well. every time he picks up a character everyone wants to nerf it. why can't you niggers see that holy shit.

yeah, like he said: without arsene joker can't kill unless the opponent is at 200%. peach on the other hand has 50% combos all the fucking time and no one is crying for nerfs because samsora can't beat leo.

Which is why he's fine with nerfing Arsene if he is buffed without him.

I find it cool that this game has a healthy metagame because the good characters are actually hard to play, unlike smash 4. Bandwagoning hasn't let anyone get beyond top 16 yet

joker LITERALLY needs to be nerfed thought, Arsen is fucking busted

Watch the tourneys until the finals happen then you can shutoff the stream.

Smash has a major every single week. You get used to it.

I argued how the nerfs barely effected them above
Oh, and before you go on a tirade about how it affected the outcome, because you r obviously the OP of the other thread, I want you to know that the gap between Peach and Ivysaur nerfs were much longer form release to now than how long Joker's even been out. I don't think he'll go without nerfs, Sakurai was watching EVO after all, but your just a little bitch baby crying that your favorite player got trounced by someone who knew what they were doing.

the scene is alive enough to support it

see Most people don't think he's overpowered they just don't like watching extremely boring playstyles

He's gonna go Chrom next tourney, watch all these cries for nerf Chrom soon my man. Leo is just broken.

Joker's throws have pathetic kill potential without Arsene.

because they get gatekeeped by all the other top tier players that are used to fighting jokers of mkleo's caliber

>without arsene joker can't kill unless the opponent is at 200%
Why are you lying

>I-ITS ONLY OK TO NERF ANYONE BUT MY MAIN!!!!
Listen retard, the fact that other top tiers were brought down a notch while joker was left untouched makes no fucking sense

He literally said he's using chrom at shine and he'll win too. Just to keep you fags seething

>didn't even try to argue technical skill
jej

>scarflard so mad he just threatened to toss his toe nail collection next time leo wins
>haha just joking guys pls don't report me!!

You and I both know I can keep grabbing as many screencaps from the set as you want and you'll keep saying it was "rare".

He'll lose a lot more regularly then go back to Joker.

Leo lost a lot recently, the fuck are you on? He came back from losers here and in EVO, and lost to marss's ZSS before Evo too
Not only that, but he was one stock away from losing in the last two tournaments

>Kameme
>Random Megaman
Way to out yourself as not knowing anything.

except those peach combos will never work on joker, because by the time hes done he will have arsene and be able to recover for free :)

He literally said Chrom is broken though

>yfw he switches back to Joker mid tourney and you still suck his tiny spic dick

why do 3000 people enter these tournaments? like they have to know they are just wasting their time and money right?

>He also lost to Marss, Samsora, and some rando Megaman.
And yet he keeps winning the tournaments over and over and over and over. The tournament he lost Marss to was the first one he lost in like 2 months. Before Joker it was a 50/50 whether Tweek or Leo would win a tourney.

>his whole kit is insane
>everything is overtuned
>he rewards losing play
>he is absolutely overpowered
>only 1 guys who plays him, the rest drowns in the pools
If everything were true, top 8 should be 8/8 jokers you retards.

Mexican G&W players aren't even playing in our reality, no one else can make an obscure character look top tier

Didn't MKLeo try to use him and get bodied?

>Arsene needs only 70% at minimum to fill up
>Also fills up passively
>Also starts partially filled when a stock is lost
Ok

Attached: 1495175434202.png (800x600, 192K)

Leo actually has a stronger non-Arsene game. As long as they don't nerf Arsene too hard he'll be fine, but Yea Forums will keep crying until he stops winning.

>Leo was never this good with Ike or Lucina
He literally won Summit and Genesis with Lucina. Before then, he won SCU with Ike, and after G6, Heart of Battle with Wolf. He has placed first at Majors with FOUR different characters.

Winning the tournament is all that matters. No one gives a fuck about what happened in round of whatever, they only remember who won it in the end.

>One option can't kill till 200%
>Smash's can kill at like 70%-120%

Wow, it's almost like lightweight weak characters tend to have bad throws. I guess Mac is really bad because he can't kill till like 200% aerials.

>Cant admit he's the clear best and thinks he's carried
You'll be proven wrong and writhing in agony at shine

>Kameme
>random Megaman
What the fuck

No picture better reflects Smashcon 2019

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Well of course he will, there's money on the line. Are you fucking retarded nigger?
The couple of matches he would win with Chrom is enough to make trannies like you cry and make threads upon threads for nerfs.
Don't ever respond to me ever again.

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2950 of those people know they're not going to win. But getting the experience of playing against people better than you is important, and there are always setups for friendlies at the venue to practice on.

Doesn't change my point, user. Joker / Leo isn't some unbeatable God you guys keep peddling. The narrative simply does not work.

Context?

>Love Chrom
>Hate Leo
What do I do bros? Do I root for him or not?

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having arse actually is worse for joker in the peach matchup, arsene can actually be edgeguarded.
In the 2 of grand finals we see a couple of kills when arsene tries to recover low.

All arguments crying about Joker being broken are thrown in the garbage when you realize that there are no other Jokers making it this far in tournaments. If he was so easy and busted, then why isn't everyone winning with him?
Keep crying babus.

which is why everyone asking where are the jokers are in top 8 are stupid. of course you wont see jokers in top 8 if none of the actual good players are playing him as a main. are there ANY actual good smash players that have switched to joker besides leo?

Not really tweek kinda fell off after frostbite, now he's back to where he was kinda

No, first you have to establish what constitutes Leo's "Near 200%" is - I'd say at least 165%+
then all you have to do is tell me how many times Samsora reaches that point vs. all active stocks and we can figure out how rare it is or isn't

So, even though Arsene isn't really busted or anything like that, regardless the crowd all fucking start sighing and rolling their eyes once Arsene came out and Leo started winning. What does this mean for the future of the Ultimate scene? Are people getting tired of watching Leo?

>And yet he keeps winning the tournaments over and over and over and over.
Probably because he's literally the only Joker that could adapt? You can even see how his playstyle changed against Tweek from Evo last week to Smashcon today. He made sure to snuff out the Squirtle that was giving him so much trouble.

Compare to a shitter like Nairo who literally never goes offstage even once and just flounders.

why do you guys get mad on someone else's behalf?
you will never have to fight any joker as good as leo, joker is not a free win button like bayonetta was

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I like how you zoomers think that don't reply to me shit is funny. Simple fact is that Joker is overtuned and he does the same combo to kill against every fall speed/weight of character and if you think that's anything other than overtuned, you're braindead.

Samsora couldn't kill him below 150. Arsene was a get out of jail free off stage

His non-Arsene game is always the thing that separates him from other Jokers imo.

Winning games when Smash was like 3 months old with wonky and weird characters is very different from 9 months after release. When he won with Ike the meta was still very unstable.

zack almost sent leo to losers but didn't.

So will you retards cry about Chrom once Leo start winning with him despite literally zero chrom ever making top 8?

Because not everyday is a fucking shameless tier whore.

youtube.com/watch?v=pylzsrcfnUM

Skip to the end.

this, peach actually easier to play and has an easy 0-50% true combo.

The idea that Ult is "pay to win" is bullshit. Leo is the only Joker with results, and there's no argument there.

Leo is also godlike and without a doubt one of the best Ultimate players in the world.

HOWEVER, there were some key moments in Leo's sets where Joker got an advantage that was early unearned, and I don't think it's that crazy an idea to nerf arsene.

He went from trading tournaments with Tweek and being the best player in the world by a tiny margin over him to shitting in Tweek's mouth constantly and losing a tournament once every blue moon. Now he's the best in the world by a huge margin.

Yes, almost everyone wants Leo to lose.

He is the best AND is playing a character that needs a nerf. This is not a mutually exclusive thing.
I know I'll be proven right in time and I'll be here to annoy the fuck out of you when it happens.

I hard disagree. While joker is definately technical, he is not interesting.

literally give me a melee puff over joker, because all of joker's matches go the same.

leo's IKE was more hype than joker, even with all his nair spam

Literally nairo in this very tournament and he lost with him

>Leo actually has a stronger non-Arsene game
This is one of the things that sets him apart from other Jokers. Everyone else just gets dicked on and killed while they have Arsene out because the damage racked up so high.

arsene will be nerfed check this 7

Get Chrom'd inside

Zackray switched to ROB and started dismantling Leo's Joker, he flubbed an input in game 5 which cost him the set.

Yes, that's exactly what it is. I think Leo feels that too, which is why he's talking about busting out Chrom soon.

If Joker was actually "LE BROKEN XDDDD" top 8 would look like this with Joker over Bayo. The fact is that MK (FORMA DE LEOOOOOOOO) is an absolute God and the only player capable of pushing this character to the limits.

Cope with that nerfbabbies

Attached: 1565585650710.png (1200x800, 1.38M)

Yes. Leo is a legend, anyway.

>Sakurai nerfs high tiers
>Joker left untouched
>Joker now much better in comparison
>”h-heh, looks like you guys need to git gud”
Are jokerfags really this delusional?

Alright, time for TI9.

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>of course you wont see jokers in top 8 if none of the actual good players are playing him as a main.
That didn't stop a bunch of irrelevant nobodies that regularly drowned in pools becoming top 5 players in their regions with Cloud and Bayo back in Tr4sh.

Leo is also the only serious Joker player.

tl;dr

xDDD

OwO

Chrom really isn't very different from Roy who has been fairly successful lately.

>then all you have to do is tell me how many times Samsora reaches that point
Once a match. If you're in /ssbg/ I'll even go through the VOD and pick it out for you because I'm that autistic, but it's late now and I have work in the morning.

>>>>>>>>>>>main

There was only 3 Jokers in Top 32, and two of them aren't even on the same lvl as Leo

the only character hes picked up that was uncommon before was ike, and he actually lost some with ike

>people have the audacity to compare zero to people like Leo or Armada
yikes

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I’m tired of ultimatebaby crowds rooting for campy defensive projectile camping characters like peach over aggressive ones like joker because “muh underdogs” yes, was it ever this bad in tr4sh I don’t even remember

>Fair got a medium sized nerf and it was the only notable nerf she got at all.
This is exactly how I know you're a garbage player, and your input is utterly worthless in this debate.

The down-B nerf effects her neutral drastically, but naturally a player as bad as yourself doesn't understand the importance of neutral.

youtube.com/watch?v=KsMmD6xDyT0

An unknown kid from canada playing Ken almost sent Leo in loser.

>BUT JOKER BROKEN PLEASE NERF

at least on the Ultimate side

Nairo and void

Yeah, Rebel's Guard definitely needs to be reworked to lose super armor on strong attacks.

don't most Chrom players switch to Roy (and vice versa) depending on Matchups? Like I know there's a few characters were Chrom literally just can't recover.

>Leo actually has a stronger non-Arsene game
Agreed even if I feel Arsene needs a nerf. Make it charge slower or something.

Joker IS broken but Bayonetta was a catastrophe.

joker isn't THAT cancerous, and thank god for that.

>I argued how the nerfs barely effected them above
and your argument was pathetic, as expected from a complete moron.

That was literally tail end of smash 4's life and there are still 6 characters out of 8 options. Bayo probably wasn't so bad if you can till win with 5 other characters. Think about how many bayo's got knocked out in pools bro.

Shoyo James made top 8 at GOML, dumb nigger.

>An unknown kid
he got 13th at this very tournament, he's pretty damn good

Will Leo's Arsene start bringing down views for Ultimate tourneys since no one likes watching him at this point?

Towards the end of the set and throughout grands he started fishing for Arsene more. Remember the two rebel guards offstage? He even got Arsene twice in one stock. I agree, but I think Leo knows where his bread is buttered.

No, you don't understand, if Bayonetta was more powerful than Joker, Joker is fine.

None of you play at this level so why do you care about tier list? If you lost to a joker on quickplay you simply got outplayed and your opponent was better than you.

Bayonetta was straight up playing an entirely different game. Like didn't people find mid-screen Zero-to-Deaths like, 2 hours of her getting released.

hardly anyone plays Puff in Melee either, and hardly anyone switched mains to Bayo in Smash 4, guess that means they weren't broken
Pepega

Do you think anyone here ever participated in a tournament? I guarantee they're complaining because they once lost to little timmy's Joker online because they suck ass

Leo making all these comebacks reminds me of The Wong Factor and how J Wong used to completely deflate the crowd when he would win.

Nintendo isn't that stupid and will nerf him. They nerfed other characters based on competitive like Pokemon trainer and olimar.

>almost
Leo almost lost a bunch of times due to being outplayed this tournament, then won due to arsene.

>he started fishing for Arsene more.
To be fair Samsora was being really liberal with those turnips. I'm actually surprised it took leo that long to make the adaption.

Good I hope he get more exposure.

>Riddles
>unknown
He's literally the best Belmont player. Definitely a known player.

Mr. R is the only one who plays both. Rivers and Blank only play Chrom, and Salt One and Goblin only play Roy.

Shoyo 'my pad was broken' James

I wouldn't call casting a massive net "fishing" but to each their own.

Pokemon Trainer wasn't that good in the competitive scene, Tweek recently started to use PT.
Olimar did deserve a nerf.

There's a whole lot more gold on here since Leo mastered Joker.

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Smash bros you need to get in here NOW

discord.gg/Bgsxpks

discord.gg/Bgsxpks

discord.gg/Bgsxpks

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Mr R talking mad shit on twitter lately for someone who is pretty irrelvant results wise

true but his shield is still fucked though

it cost shuton his losers set

damn son thats some grade-school logic you got going there

Probably not since he'll just become the next Hbox. People will literally tune in just to see him lose.

NO NO NO DELETE THIS

Olimar didn't get nerfed as much a he should have, but got literally broke because his shield was made too small. The biggest problems with Peach, Wolf, Snake, Lucina, and Pikachu have not been touched upon yet. There is reason to doubt Nintendo at this moment.

It sucks but if they still wanna' use him while his shield is still fucked then that's on them

He did really well at EVO. But that's pretty much it.

>makes 30 grand in a week for playing video games
god i wish that were me

I agree, whenever I play a Joker in elite its almost the first thing they do when I go to edgeguard
Yeah man his down B is broken, surprised no one is talking about it, even the very bottom of its hurtbox can gain meter or reflect damage completely from ALL angles

>Anti-Jokerfags keep saying he's actually broken and like Bayo was and soon everyone will be playing him
>It's been 4 months

Tick Tock...

Hbox has way more personality for better or worse than Leo, who is basically just a Mexican robot. People care more about Hbox as a person whereas people just don't want to watch Leo's joker anymore.

The character is still top 10 even with the shield.

Don't worry he'll switch to Chrom and lose some to avoid Joker getting nerfed.

wait until you find out what Twitch streamers can make
there's a very good reason why Zero stopped trying at tournaments

>Brougth Zackray to tears
>Cucked Nairo out of his 3rd Smash Con championship
>EVO'd Tweek again
>Beat the shit out of Samsora who sent him to losers earlier
How can anyone hate Leo?

He's like a very budget Speedkicks in that he talks a big technical game up on Twitter but can't exactly apply it to an actual win

Yeah but if it losest hem a set/stock that's still their own fault for playing him.

Joker was tied for most played character in top 128, 2nd most in top 32. Give in another couple months and the jokers will be everywhere.

>like Bayo

Nobody compared him to Bayo, Bayo is straight up busted.
Its still doesn't take away to how powerful Joker is.

No one compared joker to bayo retard
See

Can’t wait until people start complaining about chrom again.

What were the final stream numbers?

Joker has done multiple drag down up air to smash kill confirms no arsen this tournament. Joker has performed grab chain combos to reach 50+% without arsen this tournament. How can you not see that holy shit

There are always people calling shit broken but Joker has the most of it this game, more than any of Leo's other picks by far. When he gets arsen popping twice in a stock or survives what should be 0 to death because his crutch timer went off off stage, it's easy to see why

>people just don't want to watch Leo's joker anymore.
People don't want to watch Puff either. They literally only watch to see HBox lose. You saw how the crowd was today.

Leo is quickly becoming the same symbol of hate. Whether or not he has a personality is irrelevant. Reminder that Ultimate has the same amount of views as Melee GF today despite being at 1AM.

Anyone backing the sure thing is a faggot.

Then you should easily be able to dismiss it

Wong factor was crazy in UMvC3. Literally solo'ing entire teams as solo Akuma without X-Factor, shit didn't make sense

>Nobody compared him to Bayo, Bayo is straight up busted.
No I mean the logic that
>You don't see Jokers yet same reason you didn't see Bayos infesting the game until months after her release

He'll be nerfed before long.

Armada hate was relatively tame, and Mang0 hate was nearly nonexistent when they were both the reigning champs of Melee. Hbox is hated for many reasons along with his dominance, and MkLeo hasn't really given people a reason to like him yet.

I will give Leo this, the man is clutch. How many game 3/5's did he win in this tourny? like 5?

BUT JOKER CANT KILL WITHOUT ARSENE HES BALANCED
>fair 1 (safe)
>drag down upair
>downsmash
.ok retards.

Yeah, they want to see Hbox the personality lose. Leo losing isn't really funny or anything, he's not a total drama queen whiny bitch like Hbox. If you think Hbox's personality has nothing to do with why people watch him then you seem no understanding of how viewers actually think.

didn't Melee top off at 65k? Because Ultimate had 82k at its peak from what I saw

>survives what should be 0 to death because his crutch timer went off off stage
But on the other hand Samsora got numerous kills BECAUSE of Arsene off-stage. Arsene is actually a disadvantage here so I'm not sure why you're arguing that.

>sure thing
>reversed Sam and Tweek
whatever LOSER

Here you are, revisionist

I was super fucking sick of Armada winning from 2015-2017, I would always root for Hbox over him.

I don't hate him as a person but damn I want to see him lose.

I'm not sure if you're still arguing with me or agreeing. The fact is that people still tune in to watch Ultimate, but now they tune in to see him lose. Whether or not they hate him as a person or not doesn't change the fact that Ultimate isn't anywhere close to dying.

I personally don't hate Leo, but I like most top Ultimate players and I want them to do well also.
I would have been okay with literally anyone in the Top 8 taking the tourney (Maister because of the G&W memes mostly, though)

>Whether or not he has a personality is irrelevant.
Yeah, no one watches Hbox because of his personality. No one, that's why people never post about how much of a bitch he is and how he acts constantly during his matches.

this is actually a good point, like I remember Leo saying there's a few matchups where he wishes he just never got Arsene because some characters can just gimp him forever while it's active.

Actually Ultimate had like 15k more viewers. Even if Leo wins the next 5 majors I don't see this changing.

82k

Can people/companies pay for views on Twitch? Not really asking about Smash, but I checked out some Gwent streams which is dead as dead can be and people are pulling 500-1k people at noon on a weekday, but chat is basically dead.

>JOKER IS BROKEN
>MKLeo literally lost in this tournament
>Multiple game 5 last hit situations
>Also he lost in the previous tournament
The difference was that MKLeo kept his cool while his opponents choked like there was no tomorrow

Fuck off you ban evading cuck.
boards.fireden.net/v/search/image/EsOeMo0mnRlI9KdK3-zvvA/

viewbotting is a thing

Yes, but Twitch is generally pretty good at preventing it.

Not close to dying, but will decline if this continues. Leo doesn't overreact and act like some kind of victim and make numerous twitter posts where he encourages people to hate him. There's just boring gameplay people are tired of but no drama queen to laugh at and shitpost about like with Hbox. There's no entertainment to be gained.

Viewbotting is a thing, but Twitch is very good at stopping them these days. You don't usually see viewbots for long on the front page streams.

Broken doesn't mean unbeatable. mkleo is probably the best player in the world. But is he SO MUCH better than the other top players he should be winning 95% of his matches? I dont think so.

Nice analogy my fellow HunterCHAD

I'd almost bet the bigger gwent streamers are doing it considering getting a match can take 3+ minutes at peak times and only 5-10 people are talking at any given moment tops with hundreds of people watching.

>but will decline if this continues.
I disagree with your assessment. It's been months now with Leo dominating yet viewership has actually been RISING.

We shall see.

Oh I'm a new dude. Either way, I think Leo might just lower viewership because the only thing he contributes is the thing you said, but Hbox is actually hated and people actively want him to lose. Armada and ZeRo boosted viewership due to their winnimg but seemed legitimately untouchable for a very long time. Leo has yet to reach that status, and probably will not as he seems very beatable given people taking him to game 5 so often.

Not all top players switch characters simply because they are more powerful, especially form a completely different franchise.
Which is why Smash 4 were dominated by literally fucking who who picked her up and plow through the tournaments.
This is also at the time when people start dropping Smash 4.

Then again, Joker can't be compared to Bayo.
Bayo bullshit is on its own league, essentially a completely different game of her own that throw off a lot of veteran players.
Joker is still a proper Smash character, just one that is very solid without Arsene, and a very strong one with.

Will there be more Joker player on the top spot?
Not from current top ranked players definitely. They would rather stick with their main and whop Joker ass than submit to the temptation.

>let a lot of streamers get away with viewbotting 2k viewers for years because “we can’t be sure he’s the one paying for it it could be someone just paying thousands of dollars for a viewbotting service just to get the guy banned or something”
>good at preventing it
lmao

Meleefags don't work with logic

Leffen vs. Hbox was a win-win situation.

>Leffen wins
Dominant player gets beaten.
>Hbox wins
You get to see Leffen rage again.

>numerous

I count like, 3 at most at the top 8.
Joker on the other hand survive at least 3 times in the GF alone.

Meant to reply to you

Were we watching the same set? Every time Leo got below stage as Arsene Samsora either wracked up damage or just got free kills.

comparing leo to scarflard is a sin.

That doesn't change the fact that both Samsora and Tweek's characters were nerfed unnecessarily.

PT got buffed in Tweek's case considering he doesn't rely on the Ivysaur crutch like Leffen and other shitters.

I was counting the time when Sam wreck and edge guard Leo from 0% only for Arsene to save the day with his recovery bullshit.

Peach can still do her 0-50% combo and the nerf to Ivysaur weren't that bad, Charizard got buffed too, so it evens out.

don't most PT mains consider 4.0 to be a net positive

but he did really on Ivysaur, you can arguably say Tweek uses all the pokemons.

>Removing the Joker icon from his Umebura outing
Cheeky.

Also note that his two recent first place wins are him coming from Loser's. He's clearly not untouchable as you appear to be implying.

use* fuck me

Leffen said that PT is better now.

Didn't remove anything. Liquidpedia didn't put it on because he didn't make it far enough into the tournament. Also not implying anything except that he's been winning more since he mastered Joker. Mastered being the key word since obviously he lost at Umebura when he was still figuring out the character, and again at GOML since he switched off Joker because he didn't feel comfortable against Pika with him yet.

I'm not denying that, but he also regularly uses Squirtle and Charizard. In fact Tweek was destroying Leo with Squirtle until Leo downloaded him.

Compare with 99% of other PTs like Big Leff who stay on Ivysaur 99% of the match.

I thought Leffen said he quit Ultimate to go back to Melee?

it's weird people keep claiming that "Leo carries every character" when that literally never happened.
his Ike was solved immediately by Nairo and Light at Glitch, his Lucina was solved immediately by Tweek at Frostbite and later lost to players like Mr. R and ESAM, his Wolf and Greninja never accomplished much.
that said Joker isn't really broken and I hope he isn't nerfed, but he's definitely the best character in the game. it's crazy that everyone accepts that Lucina and Wolf are top tier but have this weird denial over Joker, not sure if they're just Persona fanboys or what

No one says joker isn't Top Tier.

So? Ivysaur didn't need to be nerfed. That nerf directly decided the match.

>It decided the match
>But not the buffs

Okay.

Who cares about the buffs? We're talking about Ivy's nerfs you stupid idiot.

Buffs for PT? Great. Nerfs for PT? Utterly idiotic and unnecessary, like 99% of nerfs to any character.

Wasn't Evo played with a version before the Ivy nerfs?

my twitter feed does

yes

Yeah, Tweek sucks, anyway.