Is System Shock an RPG or an immersive sim, and what is an immersive sim

none of those

No.

Based.

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The game's fault was loading times and not being as great as the original, that was it. It's disappointing in the same way Thief: Deadly Shadows is; a game that does not reach the heights of their progenitor. That makes them by no means terrible games and I'm frankly tired of the meme hate train on IW when HR has worse game design than it.

imagine being this much of a fucking contrarian. i hate this shithole and all the pathetic creatures that inhabit it.

Sounds like they have a point.
Go make an IW vs HR thread and have an argument about it. Every night for 2 months

It's a very lose definition for a designing philosophy rather than a straight up game genre. People often dumb it down to just having emergent gameplay (unscripted gameplay that may go beyond what the developers ever had in mind or expected) but it's not just that.
The idea behind "simulation" and "immersion" and some of the other core things that people look at when talking about immersive sims, is the creation of a cohesive and realistic world within it's own context, in which you have strong agency, usually through the means of interactivity.
That's really where the simulation part comes from. The idea is to make the player forget he's in a game not just through atmosphere, but through simulation.
In SS2 for example, the level design is made so that every room you enter, and ever asset you see in them seems to have a realistic function and purpose for the ship. It almost feels like they designed the ship first, and then built the levels around the ship.
In Deus Ex, it's all the little things that make the world seem so alive as well. It's trying to make the game feel as least "gamey" as possible in a certain way.

To sum it up, immersive sims basically relies on strong player agency within a cohesive world that is highly interactive and will respond - like a simulation - to the decisions taken by the player, which results in unscripted and emergent gameplay.

Is it being contrarian when you actually played the game and formed your own opinion rather than follow the hive mind of "WORST GAME EVER" that gets parroted around every forum? Please tell me the faults of Invisible War, other than what
said. It's definitely a lesser game compared to the original Deus Ex, but its faults do not make it deserving of the trashing it gets by people who never even tried it.
Helios ending is still the best even in the sequel

Does MGSV fit into that description?

deadly shadows played and controlled like shit though

It's not as good as the first two Thief games, I agree. but at least mods rid us of the loading times. The Shalebridge Cradle remains one of my favourite levels in the series

Your definition includes BotW

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No.

Ultima Underworld is literally unplayable lol. Aged like milk.

I've seen people argue for both of these games being immersive sims. Again, it's a lose definition for a design philosophy and sure they do check some of the boxes, but not all unlike games that represent that design philosophy best do (deus ex, thief, ss2 etc).

Both are open worlds but they aren't exactly fleshed out or cohesive, mgsV's world is actually rather empty. It's not like there was an emphasis with the level design to try and reinforce cohesion and represent elements that fill a specific function to create immersion.
Player agency is also reduced in comparison, noticeably in terms of character progression where your choices barely matter at all in zelda or mgs, compared to say how you may decide to spend your CM's in ss2, which may result in your character not even being able to wield a simple pistol you find on the ground.

Hopefully what I said here helps clear some things out, but again it's just a lose definition. Tons of games have some immersive sim aspects, and there is no point in fighting for the label, but if you're trying to understand what separates deus ex from breath of the wild under the definition of the term, that's basically what it boils down to.

it's a shooter with RPG elements
immersive sim is a stupid meme term for emergent gameplay

Here's the actual good list that isn't just for getting (you)s

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why isnt NV considered IS?

it's not immersive and it doesn't simulate anything

Skipping the first System Shock is a crime, considering it is the game that set the foundations for the later games.

Avoid bioshock if you're looking for an immersive sim, but not if you're looking for a great game with amazing atmosphere and solid level design.

Not a reliable standard whatsoever. Maybe he thinks System Shock 1 is unplayable by modern standards, and to non-spergs maybe it is. I personally don't know, I haven't played it in 10 years but even then I do recall it feeling a little janky.

The original System shock is very clunky to play by todays standards. Ide still think its worth playing but honestly I know how braindead most gamers are these days.

>Is System Shock an RPG or an immersive sim
Both. Immersive Sim is about the design philosophy that can theoretically be used in any genre, RPG desribes the genre.
>what is an immersive sim.
A term Warren Spector used to describe his and Looking Glass Studios' approach to game design in which they created a bunch of system and let the player figure out how to use them to solve problems.
>"There was a moment when we were working on Ultima VI that I'll never forget," says Spector. "I was watching testers play this area where your path is blocked by a portcullis, and you had to flip a lever to raise the portcullis and advance. The tester didn't have the telekinesis spell that you needed in order to flip the lever, and I thought he was doomed. But one of the members of his party was a talking mouse, and since the portcullis was a simulation, the mouse could actually wriggle through it and flip the lever. And I just fell on the floor. No one else in the world had ever done that! You weren't supposed to be able to do that! And I thought to myself, ‘That, that is what I'm doing for a living from now on. I'm going to make things like that happen.' That's the immersive sim right there – all because of an accident."

As a practical example, a conventional game might give you a grapple hook ability and then designate a bunch of points around the map you can grapple to. Like Sekiro.
An ImSim like Thief instead assigns a material type to each surface, allows arrows to stick in some materials and not others, creates the ability to latch onto and climb hanging ropes, and then gives the player arrows that drop ropes when deployed.
These 4 system combined create a system in which a player can climb anywhere there is a surface soft enough to stick an arrow into if they have rope arrows, allowing a player to technically get somewhere the devs didn't intend, since they didn't just set certain spots they could grapple to.

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Feels so weird to see dishonored and bioshock next to the other gems on this list.

yeah, they're a lot more fun than the uneventful, primitive trash that populates the rest of the list. not sure why you called them "gems" though as that has a positive connotation

>my favorite kind of game is doomed to commercially fail nowadays

The pain will not fucking stop. Prey 2017 was a miracle but after the blatant commercial failure it's obvious we won't see more. Arkane CEO said it himself, people don't want these games and he's done with it.
But I do. I can only replay the classics so many times, PLEasE GIVE ME MORE. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fuck normies and fuck people who can't appreciate good things

It didn't help they made DotO. I loved both Dishonoreds, Prey, Arkane, and ImSims in general but that looked so bad.

They are fun, and I enjoyed them both but not as much as the rest on this list. I called them gems because I think they are amazing games and definitely better than the two I mentioned.
It seems you thought we agreed but that isn't actually the case.

>This
I consider SS to be some of the best games of all time but recommending someone play SS before SS2 in this day and age will likely discourage them form trying SS2.

I called them gems because I think they are amazing games.

I also enjoyed and had fun with dishonored and bioshock, but I really don't think of them to be in the same category as the other games.

Hopefully that clears things up for you.

>but I really don't think of them to be in the same category as the other games.
Not him but why? Both hold up in terms of gameplay depth to the others, and I think BioShock 1's story is amongst the best of all the games there.
I can't even say that inventory management is the difference between those two and the others on the top row, since both Thief 1 and 2 are there.

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Why are the Bioshocks there? I remember them being linear as all fuck, basically your run of the mill FPS but with a catchy art style and in the case of 1 a memorable plot tweest.

twitter.com/NightdiveStudio/status/1160740078685057025

SS2 EE just got announced

You're not remembering right. The first two are actually pretty open, you're free to explore each level before you move on to the next area and they're all pretty non-linear.

> I remember them being linear as all fuck, basically your run of the mill FPS
You should play them again then. You're mixing up Infinite with the other 2

Well that's pretty excellent. Hopefully they tweak the balancing a bit so Standard Weapons isn't so hilariously OP compared to the other playstyles.

I don't see how they could enhance it
Not even a ss2 fag either

>immersive sim

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try "was dark souls 2 really that bad" at least once daily, for over half a fucking decade
jesus

>Is System Shock an RPG or an immersive sim
Immersive sim.
>and what is an immersive sim
It literally means "any game in the style of Looking Glass Studio's games". It's the phrase they used to describe their own games.