What makes a game "hard"?

What makes a game "hard"?

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idk I play games on easy

In darkest dungeon the rng Is what makes it so difficult, especially when it comes to turn order
If the boss attacks 4 times in a row Its over regardless of team composition or strength

your intelligence or lack thereof

A game can only be forever difficult if it has aspects outside of the players control that can't be manipulated. Otherwise, the difficulty is subjective.

DD is not hard, unfavorable RNG doesn't make a game hard. If you prepare well you can get through missions without too much difficulty.

Information and Execution.
When you don't know what you're doing, everything is challenge.
And if you can't push buttons when the games asks you to, you'll never beat it.

time investment
we live in the era of easy rewards whit no long-term rewards

The RNG means that sometimes you are just fucked no matter what prep work you did

name 5 "hard" games where the difficulty isn't just that, from any era

Darkest Dungeon know's its a motherfucker, most of the game is just preparing a party so you dont get as fucked as you normally would
there is not a single boss that doesn't get shredded with the right party

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Yeah exactly. When an element of the game is out of your hand I wouldn't say that its difficulty. Difficulty should only come from factors you can directly control.

An user put It like this before. DD is making a deck of cards where the highest valued cards win matches. The thing is you cant have a deck of just Kings and Aces. you have to maximize high cards and minimize lows.

>idk I play games on easy

You a games journo?

see

RNG most of the time, shit like BoI and DD are mostly RNG based, so they are hard because relying on RNG to give you a good run makes the game feel harder then it is.

Then theres games that are hard because the game makes several features direct counters to your gameplay to give the feeling of hardness. This is the Souls series. Where if you remove the enemies one shotting your HP, the game isn't really that hard.

Then theres games that are hard based on movement, these are games like Megaman and Super Meat Boy, where these games rely on your skills to move and dodge obstacles which will fuck you otherwise.

Then theres complex games that LOOK hard but are actually easy, like Dwarf Fortress.

I review the games I play in my head so kinda.

If a boss has a lot of actions per turn then just bring a DoT stacking team, it'll fucking shred them

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The game

A game isn't difficult if the challenge can be overcome by just reading the wiki

How do you even use the jester after all of the updates? He is just a stress heal? 1 finale, only when you're already about to kill a boss?

stress heal/crit buff, he's busted as hell in the farmstead or any of the longer bossfights where his finale can reach dumb peaks
aside from that he has some alright bleeds

When a game is designed in a way where you can lose.

Be Wizardry 4

Attached: Throb of the Demon's Heart is actually an unrelated spin-off and not a version of Wizardry (1200x1200, 1.07M)

>attacks one hero 4 times in a row
should've prepared of that

would you say battlefield 3 singleplayer is hard?

that's mpt hard, that's just rolling dice and hoping they land on evens

why don't games do this anymore?

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Did you get to the part about the dungeons

>Get perfect information with 0 effort
>On a game where information is the most important resource
>huuur why. game. easy?

>On a game where information is the most important resource
that's bad game design

>chess is harder if you don't know the rules trust me!

The same reason there is no class-exclusive quests/locations/whatever anymore. Players can't "experience" everything at once in the sole playthrough the prod... sorry, "game" is designed for.

In a well designed game information should always be the most important resource. Would you rather a game be about random chance?

>prod... sorry, "game" is designed for.
games were always products dipshit, at least as soon as we moved away from the fucking radar display

>capitalism = bad
Fuck off.

>In a well designed game information should always be the most important resource.
no, a game shouldn't be challanging only if the player doesn't know how to play

No game is hard if you read what the game tells you

difficulty is a meme

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If you know what you're doing you should always win in a video game. If it's down to luck it's poorly designed.

There's no rng on Darkest Dungeon. The game will try to fuck you up with all it has.
Your job is to not let it fuck you. There's nothing "random" about it.

You literally can though, flagellant for example can do DoTs and be built for death blow resist, up to like 85% or something retarded like that. Or bring a dodge stacking houndmaster. Or a high PROT MAA. All of those can take four attacks and be laughing.

see and a good game doesn't tell you shit

Didn't know we had Saudi Arabians here

If we're going by Darkest Dungeon standards then "hard" is "randomly forced to lose hours of progress that you must grind through even more RNG to restore".

You saying it's the same now as it was 20, 25 years ago? EA, ZeniBeth, ActiBlizz and the rest are churning out IKEA-tier shit. It all has neat little schedules and quarterlies. It's as devoid of creativity as it gets.

No, corporativism == bad. Also
>knee-jerk reaction at the slightest hint of something you dislike
You're literally a cultist, my dude.

that's my point dipshit, according to you the player shouldn't know what they're doing because information as to how the game works should be restricted from them

ah yes arcade games were so consumer friendly...

They were, you just had to git gud

>x is not hard because if you do xyz it's easy
retards, hard doesn't mean impossible. get your heads out of your asses.

you need to get out of Yea Forums this board is for hardcore gamers only

see

there is 0 RNG in DD all events are predetermined

of course we are talking about your base, the only ''character'' in the game that matters, those bozos you send into the dungeon are expendable and their death doesnt count as a loss

>No, corporativism == bad.
Again, fuck off retard. Corperations are the only reason you get games that aren't lazy retro indie shit. You can't make good games without money.

That's the price of playing with a slow party.

A good game readily gives you all the essential information you need to succeed. Ambiguity isn't a bonus.

>not playing on Stygian/Bloodmoon

I'm saying 20-25, not 30-40, mate. Also I'm fairly sure that without indie (much of which is shit) and smaller devs the rate of unapologetically conveyor shit to something the devs cared about (or, God forbid, were passionate about) is much higher now. Remember Origin? Bullfrog? Cryo? Infogrames? How many good games Virgin published?

Difficulty comes in many forms. DD could be considered "hard to win" but it is in no way hard to play or master. The difficulty in DD as everyone already stated is mostly RNG and because the game was designed as having you do the best out of bad situations that will happen completely outside of your control.

then as breaks it down, some games are hard because the requirements for information may be enormous, and others because the mechanical requirements are. People will enjoy all sorts of different difficulties. Personally what does it for me is mechanical requirements with just enough information requirement that it can give me an edge on the mechanical aspect, but won't trivialize it either.

There's no "right" way to do it. It's all about execution.

RNG and bad mechanics.

It brings me great pleasure to see how butthurt you are over being wrong. I'm now considering the idea that indeed capitalism might be wrong if such a shithead is supporting it so vehemently.
Die in a fire, you cancerous piece of shit.

i hope you're proud of yourself

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>What makes a game "hard"?
In Darkest Dungeon's case, rigging the end dungeon so that it has to be run multiple times and only allowing characters to enter once so that you need to grind out twice as many shitty units.

That was the point dimwit.

If progress requires a lot of effort. Effort is subjective, but if you're struggling to move forward in the game for one reason or another, it's hard.

no
information is the most valuable asset the player has, the game should therefore restrict it

Wrong.

Wait a minute... is that... ME? It says its me(You). How did you do it user? HOW?

suuuuuuuuuuuuure
so your point was that I'm correct or what?

>money = good game
dilate

Never played it. Elaborate and explain why that was to be your example.

5 more years commie faggot.

Games that are "hard" are always games people love to call "broken", "badly designed", "doesn't give you enough information", etc. If a game was "designed well", it will never be hard. Most difficulty in video games is either from figureing things out yourself, like your first time playing a souls game blind, or Execution, ie fighting games and bullet hell games.

You know, when you dodge 2 times and do 3 crits in a row you are just happy but if the boss do something similar people chimp out.

Cultist Simulator was an interesting one in that regard.
The whole point of the game is it tells you absolutely nothing. The "gameplay" is trying to figure out what the fuck you're supposed to be doing.
It's an interesting idea, but I didn't find it particularly enjoyable to play.

it's easy as fuck normally but if you run in the wrong direction for 2 seconds it's game over since that's outside the mission are and they onlu modeled where you're supposed to go

>If a game was "designed well", it will never be hard.
chess against an ai

you can lose

So why wasn't your example something else like when it was obviously ironic to begin with? Do jokes often go over your head to this degree?

this board certainly fucking isn't