Why is SaGa held in such high regard?

>>>wrpg kun trying to start shit again because jrpgs aren't carbon copies of shitty wrpgs
The OP is specifically criticizing Romancing SaGa for being worse than other jrpgs.

It's really not subtle at all.

that's Minstrel Song everyone's talking about. You downloaded the sufami original, which is ambitious but clunky as all living hell.

>The other thing I notice is the complete lack of interactivity. There is no dialogue system, or ability to pickpocket NPCs or pick locks. Even jrpgs like Breath of Fire had non-combat skills.

Ill never understand people who focus on features a game doesn't have instead of what it does

Technically the original Fire Emblem and Dragon Quest games were groundbreaking and original RPGs, but that doesn't mean you should start there or use them as a metric by which to judge the rest of the series.

>that's Minstrel Song everyone's talking about.
Who's full of shit here, the OP or the people criticizing him or both? The SNES Romancing Saga absolutely is the one people praise non-stop

SFC RS1 sucks
The one everyone praises is the PS2 remake
That's all I have to say
I'd /thread myself but /threading your own posts is gay

>that's Minstrel Song everyone's talking about
Nope, they were specifically talking about the SNES original. For example:

>It's not a series for everyone since it's mechanically very unique and particularly complex, and gives you no tutorials or handholding whatsoever, but it's one of the most interesting and richest RPG series out there, even if Square tried to kill it real hard until recently, actually you might end up being surprised Square created it in the first place.

>Just to give you a general idea, SaGa already had visible enemies on your maps in 1992, enemies that also had their own movement and tracking behaviour mechanics depending on their races, FF started having visible enemies in 2005, with basic movement and tracking mechanics for everything regardless of the enemy.

>Implying you aren't lying
Literally the first available enemy batches have already more than one enemy, so off with the first lie.
Secondly, you've chosen Albert, the MC designed specifically for beginners, as the main protagonist out of eight, which you conveniently didn't mention, you also conveniently didn't mention anything about the character creation screen.
Then you complain about the enemies in the prologue of the MC specifically made for beginners being too easy, which is fucking rocket science levels of dumb given how all prologues in RPGs are easy as shit because they're supposed to be that, introductions to the games, and moreover you complain about the campaign designed to be the easiest of the 8 available ones.

On top of it all you've chosen SNES Romancing SaGa, and it's no mystery you've done this deliberately, because everyone and their mother knows this was the most flawed game in the series outside of SaGa 3, being the transition from GB hardware to consoles AND the first game in the series not structured as a linear dungeon crawler, AND to be even more dishonest, you complain about literally the first 30 minutes of the game.

Again, who the fuck are you trying to fool other than yourself, you fucking retard?

Attached: Nice one enemy you got there.webm (900x486, 1010K)

It's nice you've lurked on the /vr/ archives enough to carefully cherrypicked the old pastebin stuff I've written, it's too bad you also conveniently forget to link all the various posts who talk about SNES Romancing SaGa and tell people to avoid it unless you want to play for historical purposes, my dear Pinocchio.
Even a simple search in the archives redirects you to posts like this one.

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>Literally the first available enemy batches have already more than one enemy, so off with the first lie.
Which only occurs once in a blue moon. The majority of encounters I experienced only consistd of a single enemy. You know this. Why are you lying?

>Then you complain about the enemies in the prologue of the MC specifically made for beginners being too easy, which is fucking rocket science levels of dumb given how all prologues in RPGs are easy as shit
It's one thing to make the enemies be weak, it's another thing to make them deal mostly 1 damage. What purpose does this serve? Combat can't possibly be a threat, so it's just busywork.

And as that screenshot I posted indicates, enemies dealing 1 damage doesn't just happen during the prologue. It kept happening for as long as I played.

op (wrpg-kun) is full of shit. i see minstrel song recommended to newcomers far more often than the original.

lol
see next, point out the non-stop praise for the original RS1, this gon be gud

So now you expect me to obsessively follow every single SaGa-related post on the board?

I didn't see those other posts talking about Minstrl Song. I simply saw people praising the first SaGa game from 1992 Why are you blaming me for that?

>Why are you blaming me for that?
Because you're a disingenuous faggot?

>everyone says this one is the best
>no they don't
>how was i supposed to know that?

have some honor

>Because you're a disingenuous faggot?
I literally posted proof of a post where someone jerked off the original SaGa game as being revolutionary and out of this world. What am I being disingenuous about, exactly?

>Which only occurs once in a blue moon.
It really doesn't, but whatever suits your delusions I guess.
It's also fun how you're so stupid you keep on evading the point of how Albert's quest is again, specifically made for beginners, if you've even tried playing one of the other characters you'll see how not always the game begins completely differently, it also has a different difficulty curve.
Let me just post other screenshot of your lies though, just to expose you even further
>It's one thing to make the enemies be weak, it's another thing to make them deal mostly 1 damage. What purpose does this serve?
A narrative one, like most RPGs, you're the son of the lord of the Isthmus, a settlement made to specifically guard a certain location, so it makes sense that some puny monsters really can't do much to you, your older sister who has to marry an emperor renowned for his battle prowess and two royal guards, it's almost as if the game is trying to convey narrative through facts rather than your average WRPG walls of text.
Of course, to know this stuff you need to actually play through the game instead of frantically trying to find faults in games you know shit about, lie compulsively hoping nobody played the game and making threads like this out of the sheer butthurt for having been BTFO on a daily basis.

You're really a pathetic, repulsive human being, each day it's the same story all over again, and now you've also developed a grudge on a franchise because I keep exposing your sorry ass, really, the only thing you can do to find some peace of mind is to kill yourself.

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claiming that one post represents all post is disingenuous
you also have to be older than 18 to post on Yea Forums please leave

>taking an anecdote and treating it as the majority opinion isn't disingenuous, I swear!
Yeah nah, fuck off.

>What am I being disingenuous about, exactly?
Because you're so stupid, butthurt and delusional you pick things out of context in the vague hope to rally some other idiots to your cause through lies, also hoping people like me aren't around to expose you as the miserable, pathetic compulsive liar you are.
You're a fucking sociopath, with each post you make on this board you keep embarassing yourself further, no matter how many times you keep on piling lies on yourself, at this point it's really obvious you're pursuing this silly vendetta just to have the last word (or rather, lie) just to prove to yourself that yes, you can fucking win an internet videogame fight on Yea Forums by lying through your teeth AT LEAST ONCE in a week.

Again, you're mentally unhinged, butthurt and a massive loser on top of it all, and I'll keep on blowing you the fuck out on sight, on every thread you try to show your sorry ass in.

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The only input I can provide is that Saga Frontier 2 has a bitchin soundtrack

>It really doesn't
It really does. But again, you know this if you have played the game, so why do you continue being in denial about this?

>It's also fun how you're so stupid you keep on evading the point of how Albert's quest is again, specifically made for beginners, if you've even tried playing one of the other characters you'll see how not always the game begins completely differently, it also has a different difficulty curve.
Bullshit. I dipped into the other scenarios and they were just as insultingly easy. Not only that, but they were insulting in other ways. For example, the pirate's scenario begins with you having a boat and sailing at sea. Except, the sea is completely surrounded by coral reefs. So the sea is literally just a corridor in disguise and you can't sail anywhere.

>A narrative one, like most RPGs, you're the son of the lord of the Isthmus, a settlement made to specifically guard a certain location, so it makes sense that some puny monsters really can't do much to you, your older sister who has to marry an emperor renowned for his battle prowess and two royal guards,
What narrative purpose does that serve? If the settlement is supposed to serve some key strategical purpose, why are you clearing out a generic monster-filled cave af if this was some MMO? If Albert is supposed to be some sort of prodigy, why are his stats so low?

This is literally DQ1 levels of plot, except more pretentious, yet you're praising this shit as if it's Shakespeare. You really are deluded.

>it's almost as if the game is trying to convey narrative through facts rather than your average WRPG walls of text.
What on earth are you talking about? Romancing SaGa starts with an obnoxiously long text crawl about some epic past war vs good and evil. And the game doesn't even trust you to explore freely and railroads you at every turn for the sake of its silly narrative. It has a way more heavy-handed approach to story than any wrpg I can think of from that era.

>it's definitely impressive, and compared to the other games of its time, wildly ambitious
I have yet to hear what makes Romancing SaGa so impressive and wildly ambitious.

You already made this thread you dumb reposting nigger.

>Bullshit. I dipped into the other scenarios and they were just as insultingly easy.
No you didn't, you just played a few minutes through the prologue of Hawke's campaign and called it a day.
>What narrative purpose does that serve?
What I've just said, but I guess it doesn't count to you, much better to go through eight walls of text I guess.
>why are you clearing out a generic monster-filled cave af if this was some MMO?
Because if you actually played through the game you'd knew what that cave is, it's not some random ass cave you know...oh wait, the game does tell you that but as usual you try to pretend it doesn't, or maybe you're just stupid enough to not understand that.
>If Albert is supposed to be some sort of prodigy, why are his stats so low?
Because he's young, in fact he's one of the weakest of the MCs together with Aisha due to their age, which again, if you bothered to play the game you'd knew since Hawke or Sif for instance start off with significantly better stats given how they're older and more experienced.
But I guess this isn't good design because it's not bog standard D&D.
>yet you're praising this shit as if it's Shakespeare
Not really, in fact I haven't praised it at all, it's one of the most narratively barrent games in the series but at least it starts off with the right foot, especially for somebody like you who complains about cutscenes in JRPGs, but I guess being concise and subtle is also bad now.
>Romancing SaGa starts with an obnoxiously long text crawl about some epic past war vs good and evil.
So do 99% of RPGs, and it's not long either.
>the game doesn't even trust you to explore freely and railroads you at every turn for the sake of its silly narrative
Must be why people like Barbara can access 99% of the map in the first 20 minutes.
But yeah, let's pretend a 10 minute linear prologue is bad and that the game that was widely praised for its free roaming design and interconnected map simply doesn't do that.

Attached: mwahaaaaaaaa.jpg (480x360, 10K)

Also, there's numerous dumb shit I forgot about:

>you can get captured and sent to prison
>but they don't bother to take away your items or equipment

Defend this.

Also:

>you can fight guards in town
>when you defeat them (naturally, they are utterly trivial) nothing happens. They don't even disappear, they are still there and you can fight them again infinite times. They don't react to the fact that you just murdered them, neither do their colleagues. Literally nothing.

Again, defend this.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of dumb game design. Like, there's a compassion stat, which is obviously ripped off from Ultima 4. But in Ultima 4, your compassion stat went up if you performed compassionate actions, like giving money to a beggar or sparing an enemy. But since SaGa doesn't let you interact with the world, your compassion stat goes up through combat. Because that totally makes sense.

>It really doesn't, but whatever suits your delusions I guess.

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>that spacing
Yep, it's the anti FFVI faggot.

>Play the SNES version instead of the widely considered better and more complex Minstrel Song
>All this text from what just ammounts to few hours of gameplay
Hmm

>>All this text from what just ammounts to few hours of gameplay

>it gets good 50 hours in, trust me!

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>Defend this.
What's there to defend?
It's the first big game from a team that only worked on handheld games up to then, a game that also suffers from massive cut content and various design flaws everyone acknowledges but you are somehow still pretending people say it's a perfect game.
>And that's just the tip of the iceberg of dumb game design.
All RPGs are ripe with dumb game design, a 1992 console game made by an unexperienced team is not exactly the best target to choose, it only shows how petty and utterly alienated you are.
But of course, it's fine when WRPGs do that.
>But since SaGa doesn't let you interact with the world
It does, SaGa just doesn't have stat checks or other related requirements for interacting with the world, this is a deliberate design choice that has been always there throughout this day to break away from traditional game design.
The way you interact with the world is decided by who your main character is and the choices you make, not your stats, same thing goes for the narrative, which is why you have different main characters with their own defined roles, options and specific reactions to the events of the games, Jamil being a thief for instance has his own ways to get into Wuhan's harem that none of the other MCs do, because they're not thieves and they don't live in Estamir.
This is something you'd knew if you actually played through the series since all games are made like that, RS2 is perhaps the most eminent example of the old games.
>your compassion stat goes up through combat. Because that totally makes sense.
So healing people isn't an act of compassion now? Not like I'd expect much from somebody who lives 24/7 on Yea Forums, lying on multiple threads, but this is particularly low even for you, in more ways than one.

Again, your only argument as usual is that a JRPG is shit because it's not a copypasted WRPG, and only one of the WRPGs you cherrypick.

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Haven't said that bra

>The other thing I notice is the complete lack of interactivity. There is no dialogue system, or ability to pickpocket NPCs or pick locks. Even jrpgs like Breath of Fire had non-combat skills.
Go back to your WRPGs.

>your compassion stat goes up through combat. Because that totally makes sense.
So does your Piety stat in all Wizardry games up to 8.
At least in SaGa you have to actively play as a healer for your COM to go up, meanwhile, in Wizardry it's either a lottery on level up (Because it totally makes sense for your level 10 fighter to lose STR points on level up) or dumping points regardless of how you play.
I guess every single Wizardry game is now bad according to you.

you haven't heard? lock-picking minigames are the be all, end all of a game's quality according to wrpg-kun.

>you haven't heard? lock-picking minigames are the be all, end all of a game's quality according to wrpg-kun.

>Being so ignorant of RPGs that you think mini-games are the only way to implement interactivity
I take it your first 'RPG' was Fallout 3?

It's just WRPG-Kun, self appointed WRPG crusader on a mission to destroy the evil JRPGs tainting the good name of WRPGs (only the ones that count for him though, the others do not exist).

>ITT eternally seething WRPGtranny mad that he has to play a game that's actually fun instead of a boring isometric dilating simulator that may as well be a visual novel with stat checks

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>It's the first big game from a team that only worked on handheld games up to then

>this level of mental gymnastics and excuses
It was made in the 90's by Square, one of the biggest game developers in the world. We aren't talking about something like Ultima, which literally began with a teenager messing around in his basement in the late 70's.

>It does, SaGa just doesn't have stat checks or other related requirements for interacting with the world
So what you're saying is that your character building choices in SaGa don't affect how you interact with the world around you. You do realize that's one the most basic requirements for an RPG, don't you?

>this is a deliberate design choice that has been always there throughout this day to break away from traditional game design.
But SaGa is full of traditional game design. For example, the system where your stats and skills grow stronger the more use them, which was rather mindlessly copied from older western rpgs.

>The way you interact with the world is decided by who your main character is and the choices you make
From my experience, your choices were utterly meaningless. For example, when escaping from the castle, you can choose to fight the monsters, allow you sister to escape or be selfish and save yourself. Naturally, I reloaded to see the different outcomes and guess what? All three choices end with you escaping and the sister left behind.

>So healing people isn't an act of compassion now?
It's an act of self-preservation.

You really have no grounds to call anyone in here ignorant, even turning a blind eye to the tons of lies you push in every single thread you post.
How come you haven't answered this post either way?
Oh wait, it's because it completely demolishes your nonexistent arguments.

>visual novel with stat checks

Hey, I liked Long Live the Queen.

>It was made in the 90's by Square, one of the biggest game developers in the world.
Square was hardly one of the biggest developers in the worlds back then.
>We aren't talking about something like Ultima, which literally began with a teenager messing around in his basement in the late 70's.
And was just as shitty until U4 hit, mind you, most people who worked on those Square games were also young and inexperienced, but I guess as usual, it doesn't count.
>So what you're saying is that your character building choices in SaGa don't affect how you interact with the world around you.
Stat wise? They don't, stats only express battle capabilities in these games, skills are separate and world interaction is defined by who you are playing as rather than their stats, yes.
>You do realize that's one the most basic requirements for an RPG, don't you?
Not really.
>But SaGa is full of traditional game design
So are all RPGs, SaGa happen to be one of those who strays away from classic design the most.
>which was rather mindlessly copied from older western rpgs.
It wasn't since it works differently, besides, I don't see you complaining how Ultima, Wizardry and literally 99% of the WRPGs are mindless and shitty adaptations of tabletop games, I guess again, it's fine when WRPGs do that.
>All three choices end with you escaping and the sister left behind.
Most WRPGs have the exact same "choices" as well, maybe you kill more or less if you're lucky, but they aren't any different.
Many WRPGs have even less choices than that too, see something like Neverwinter Nights 2 numerous questlines that are all resolved in the same way no matter what you choose, the worst of all being the trial at castle never, being a supposedly major event in the main quest, which you literally cannot lose no matter what, don't see you complaining about that stuff, no sir.
>It's an act of self-preservation.
Healing OTHERS is an act of self-preservation now?

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I too enjoyed falconry simulator.

>So does your Piety stat in all Wizardry games up to 8.
??? You do realize piety and compassion have completely different meanings, right? It's called Piety because it expresses your devotion to a certain discipline, and that discipline can be combat-related. And in fact, piety can go up through both combat and non-combat activities.

This analogy makes no sense whatsoever. I have no clue what you were even thinking here.

>You really have no grounds to call anyone in here ignorant, even turning a blind eye to the tons of lies you push in every single thread you post. How come you haven't answered this post either way? Oh wait, it's because it completely demolishes your nonexistent arguments.
No, it's because I thought I had hit the post button, but the captcha expired at just that moment and it didn't end up being posted.

Besides, are you such a complete retard that you expect me to reply to every single post within the split-second they appear?

>It was made in the 90's by Square, one of the biggest game developers in the world.
just because it was made by square doesn't mean it got a ton of money and resources. final fantasy gets everything, niche series like saga do not.
>We aren't talking about something like Ultima, which literally began with a teenager messing around in his basement in the late 70's.
and ultima was shit then and never stopped being shit even when it became a big professional franchise.
>You do realize that's one the most basic requirements for an RPG, don't you?
your autistic "requirements" don't apply to everyone.
>From my experience, your choices were utterly meaningless.
"le meaningful choices" have always been a meme. an rpg where choices mattered as much as Yea Forums wants them to would take decades to make and have more obscene feature creep than scam citizen. and if it ever did come out, it would inevitably disappoint people by having a weak-sauce story and shallow characters in order to support all the different choices.

>I downloaded a rom of the first Romancing SaGa, fan translated,

I hope somebody told OP where he messed up.

>You do realize piety and compassion have completely different meanings, right?
Except both serve the same exact purpose in Wizardry and SaGa, a multiplier for your healing spells.
Want to know what's funnier? There's no Compassion stat in the original game, the original stat's name is LOVE(愛), so your ridiculous play over semantics is not only wrong on a basic level, it's also completely based on a mistranslation that further supports how PIE and COM are the same exact stat and you can call it however you like.
Seriously, you're a clueless imbecile that can't even weasel out with semantics.
Do you also pretend Vitality and Constitution aren't the same exact stat but with different names?
Are you truly that fucking retarded and butthurt to even pretend this is an argument?

Attached: B...BUT MUH PIETY.png (1291x597, 74K)

>Square was hardly one of the biggest developers in the worlds back then.
What bigger developers were there in the RPG space? Square developed dozens of RPGs for the SNES alone. What other RPG developer even came close to that kind of output?

>And was just as shitty until U4 hit, mind you, most people who worked on those Square games were also young and inexperienced, but I guess as usual, it doesn't count.
What doesn't count? I'm not the one making excuses for Ultima's game design. You are the one making excuses for SaGa's game design, by pointing to the team being inexperienced.

Are you so consumed by your hardon for SaGa that you can't even remember what you just posted, and instead have to resort to attacking me for something YOU are guilty of?

>It wasn't since it works differently
True, it was implemented in a more simplistic way.

>I don't see you complaining how Ultima, Wizardry and literally 99% of the WRPGs are mindless and shitty adaptations of tabletop games, I guess again, it's fine when WRPGs do that.
Mindless and shitty how? Considering SaGa copied those wrpgs in turn, wouldn't that make it shit as well?

And considering tabletop games are about a billion times more creative than video game RPGs, I fail to see how taking inspiration from them is a bad thing.

You keep jerking off SaGa as this incredible series, but can you name even one thing it has done better than other RPGs?

>Most WRPGs have the exact same "choices" as well
Most wrpgs have the entire game world open from the start, let you kill most any NPC, allow quests to be solved in different ways, etc. That alone is lightyears ahead of the absurd amount of railroading and lack of player agency in SaGa games.

>Healing OTHERS is an act of self-preservation now?
Yes. Why would you let your companions die on purpose? If they're dead, that makes you even more likely to die.

When Minstrel's Song came out like 14 years ago, I wanted to ask for it for my birthday after seeing some cool ads for it online, but my middle school self was embarrassed to say "romancing" so I had to write it down and show it to my mom. I still have my birthday copy and I still haven't finished the game because I get distracted easily.

PROPER RELEASE DATE FOR SCARLET GRACE WHEN?

>Want to know what's funnier? There's no Compassion stat in the original game, the original stat's name is LOVE(愛), so your ridiculous play over semantics is not only wrong on a basic level, it's also completely based on a mistranslation
If it's based on a mistranslation (I am playing a fan translation, after all), then I would gladly admit my mistake. However, if the original stat's name is 'love', that is even worse because again, what does healing someone have to do with 'love'?

>Seriously, you're a clueless imbecile that can't even weasel out with semantics.
What semantics? Again, piety and compassion do not mean rmotely the same thing. Piety means devotion to a certain discipline or philosophy, specifically religion. This makes sense because healing spells in Wizardry fall under the clerical school of magic. So having piety affect your healing spells makes perfect sense, unlike SaGa.

>Are you truly that fucking retarded and butthurt to even pretend this is an argument?
You tell me. Half your post consists of slinging insults at me because you can't come up with any coherent counter-argument.

>What bigger developers were there in the RPG space?
Oh I don't know, Origin, Sirtech, Strategic Simulation, just to name a few eh?
>What doesn't count? I'm not the one making excuses for Ultima's game design
Yes you are, just as you make excuses for a lot of other games by conveniently not mentioning them, or pretending Square was somehow a colossus in the early 90's, with SaGa games, being notoriously put in second or third place in their own companies since forever.
>Mindless and shitty how?
You're truly pretending people played Ultima, Dark Sun or Ravenloft games for the gameplay? To this day most WRPG fans admit the gameplay was never the point of WRPGs, nobody pretends games like Arcanum or Torment are good to play.
>Considering SaGa copied those wrpgs in turn
Oh wait, first you complains that SaGa lacks BASIC requirements of RPGs were even basic stats work differently and now all of a sudden it's copying other games?
So you're not just a sociopath, you're a psychopath too.
>I fail to see how taking inspiration from them is a bad thing.
So again, it's fine when WRPGs do that, glad you finally admit it.
>can you name even one thing it has done better than other RPGs?
Oh, a lot of stuff, from narrative to basic battle design, of course you'll disagree on that.
>Most wrpgs have the entire game world open from the start
No they don't, don't even try to pretend this is the case.
>That alone is lightyears ahead of the absurd amount of railroading and lack of player agency in SaGa games.
Railroading? Romancing SaGa 1 alone is more open and nonlinear that most of your supposed WRPG giants, especially the later ones such as the D:OS games or the widely acclaimed Kingmaker, which is almost completely linear.
>Why would you let your companions die on purpose?
Oh for many reasons, in fact there's a trick regarding the very last boss involving deliberately letting one of your companions die.

There was almost a decade between Wizardry 7 (1992) and Wizardry 8 (2001), yet Sir-Tech somehow was a bigger and more succesful developer than Square? I'm not even going to justify this nonsense.

You've completely lost it. Mind you, all your previous posts were filled with lies and falsehoods as well, but you're not even pretending anymore.

>I'm not even going to justify this nonsense.
That came out wrong. Meant to say, I'm not even going to dignify this nonsense with a reply.

>what does healing someone have to do with 'love'?
What does healing have to do with Piety or Compassion? They're there to calculate healing, that's it, it's just a naming convention for an abstract ruleset.
Throwing lighting bolts at your fellow kin is supposedly part of some kind of piety to you?
Are you that dumb? I can have a cleric with 18 "piety" slaughter a village of innocents and not lose any.
Do you really want to get into other pointless arguments about faulty mechanics and naming like alignments?
>This makes sense because healing spells in Wizardry fall under the clerical school of magic
Not really, it has nothing to do with making sense beyond a very superficial level, cleric and wizard spells are divided because of arbitrary class balance design, not because "it makes sense"
Wizards supposedly being unable to cast healing spells despite being the class that is completely dedicated to understand any form of magic makes sense to you?
Again, you always argue about completely arbitrary mechanics supposedly make more sense while missing the big point, you are literally desperately climbing on mirrors right now just to have the last word.
>yet Sir-Tech somehow was a bigger and more succesful developer than Square?
Now you're trying to argue that it wasn't given how you literally said Square literally ripped off other WRPGs including Wizardry?
So somehow Sirtech was never big but Square (and all other JRPG devs of course) somehow went out of their ways to rip off a tiny, niche, irrelevant company such as Sirtech? Or Origin?
And I'm the one who completely lost it?

Take your meds, scum, and at least try to read some books in your life, maybe you'll learn something that will help you to argue with people a bit better given it's the only thing you do with your pathetic existence.

>Wizards supposedly being unable to cast healing spells despite being the class that is completely dedicated to understand any form of magic makes sense to you?
Because mages use arcane magic, whereas clerics use divine magic. Arcane magic comes from study, which is why it requires intelligence, whereas divine magic comes from following a specific diety, which is why it requires piety.

>Are you that dumb? I can have a cleric with 18 "piety" slaughter a village of innocents and not lose any.
Did you even play Wizardry? It's a pure dungeon crawl, there are no villages to even slaughter, you retard.

Have you ever played an RPG in your life, besides your shitty SaGa games?

>Now you're trying to argue that it wasn't given how you literally said Square literally ripped off other WRPGs including Wizardry?
I specifically said they ripped off Ultima with the compassion stat, you utter mongoloid.

>So somehow Sirtech was never big but Square (and all other JRPG devs of course) somehow went out of their ways to rip off a tiny, niche, irrelevant company such as Sirtech? Or Origin?
RPGs originated in the west, so of course they had to rip off the west to begin making RPGs. Are you this retarded?

>And I'm the one who completely lost it?
Yes, you are.

SaGa is so fucking good. I love video games. I wish the other romancing saga games got the minstrel's song treatment too.

>So I finally bit the bullet. I downloaded a rom of the first Romancing SaGa
Oof. Combined with the subject title it's easy to see this is at best a bait thread at best and an idiots attempt to be relative at worst

>Because mages use arcane magic, whereas clerics use divine magic
Nice arbitrary restrictions you got there.
And who decided that healing magic was exclusive to Divine magic, hmmm? How come a Wizard with 20 WIS who worships a god can't learn divine magic no matter what but a Cleric can?
How come a Cleric with 18 INT and 10 Wis can learn divine magic but somehow can't cast a single Arcane spell?
This truly does make a lot of sense, doesn't it? Totally not arbitrary game design, no no no, just as how a level 20 fighter can't physically equip a Katana without a specific feat but is totally fine with any sort of Martial weapon, fucking ace logic, uh?
>Did you even play Wizardry?
Who said I was talking about Wizardry? Are you dumb? Oh wait, you are, you're frothing so hard to have the last word in this nonsense you can't even read, or maybe you're drowning in your delusion so much you're imagining things.
And I played more RPGs than you, especially SaGa games
>I specifically said they ripped off Ultima with the compassion stat, you utter mongoloid.
You say whatever you like when it suits you, it doesn't matter to me one bit, you're a delusional, hypocritical piece of shit.
>so of course they had to rip off the west to begin making RPGs
Not really, people can be original and come up with their own systems you know?
Games like Munchkin for instance didn't rip off other games, so WRPGs have really no excuses, especially since all they can do is rip off each other.

Really, for how long are you going to show people how retarded you are? What do you ever hope to achieve by getting massacred like this every single day? Not even WRPGfags like you.

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Minstrel Song was great for most things, but I disliked some of its mechanics.
ER for instance makes the game a lot more linear than it should be compared to the original, it's a good difficulty manager and does handle the passage of time in a rather efficient way but the way it's calibrated in MS is pretty whack and leads to disproportionate losses if you don't play through the game in a pretty strict order.
The long quest chains also exacerbate ER's problem given how missing a single chain in a quest leads to massive losses again, RS2 had a better idea in gauging time in quest length standard, with BR adding an extra tally.

Imho, Scarlet Grace arguably has the best progression design so far though, they really nailed it with that game, it's probably the most balanced yet freeform entry in terms of progression, shame they didn't have enough time and money to work on other aspects though.

>all of this fucking text
no one cares

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maybe if rs3 and scarlet grace sell well, square will finally give a decent budget to the franchise for things like remakes. a saga frontier remake with granblue fantasy relink's artstyle would be kino.

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Find a flaw.

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Requires 400 IQ so smoothbrain plebeians get mad and call it shit reflexively

People only call it shit because other people called it shit because some youtuber called it shit. As a kid when this came out, this wasn't the case, and I played the shit out of it. Surprise to me when I find out years later people suddenly "hate" this game they've never played.

SKL is a massively broken stat.
Most campaigns are pretty linear and have no player agency compared to previous games, which is kind of a shame.
Some ideas on certain skills have wasted potential, and some skills like Inconspicuos do not meld well with the general ruleset.

Still my favorite SaGa game and one of the best RPGs ever made, love it.

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>a saga frontier remake with granblue fantasy relink's artstyle would be kino.

You really shouldn't waste energy on fantasies that are implausible on multiple levels.

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I have ignored all the autism and not read a single post in this thread so far.
Now that I have your attention, which game should I start with? Or in what order should I play them?

In its attempt to faithfully replicate the tabletop feel, it ended up being too dry in the end. Basically the game feels like when you play a campaign and the group doesn't really do much else besides roll the dice.

SaGa's made a big comeback in Japan in the last few years, even the higher ups are impressed this time around and Wada is long gone.
It's really not that impossible as you think it is, maybe it won't have GBR' style and budget, probably more of a DQXI kind of deal, but honestly, it might very well happen, Kawazu's dropping his usual signs left and right too.
Start off with the first Frontier or wait until the Romancing SaGa 3 remaster comes out.
Alternatively, the DS remakes are also a good choice if you want to start with the very basics without going too retro.

>Basically the game feels like when you play a campaign and the group doesn't really do much else besides roll the dice.
That's kind of a good point as well, the game could have used some more fleshed out party banter mechanics and events outside of the scripted ones for some of the quests.
It also doesn't help that there aren't really many quests in the game at the end of the day, and with all the cast having their own maps it becomes much more evident, Judy's especially short campaign is pretty hard to replay consistently as there's very little to do, and it's also very easy.

>the game could have used some more fleshed out party banter mechanics and events outside of the scripted ones for some of the quests.

This is why I'm interested in Scarlet Grace, although I've heard that even though you can recruit a lot of people, the game is still pretty sparse in terms of character/party dialog, which worries me.

WHAT IS THE ABSOLUTELY BEST KINO SAGA GAME?????? YOU FUCKERS KEEP SAYING X IS THE WORST ONE. TELL ME WHICH ONE I FUCKING PLAY!!!!!!!!

>Start off with the first Frontier
Are all the character worth playing? I think I started with the girl accused of killing her cop bf years ago.

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the series is split into several smaller sets of games with similar design styles.
you have:
>Gameboy trilogy
>SNES Romancing SaGa trilogy and their various remakes
>PS1 SaGa Frontier duology
>Unlimited SaGa for the PS2
>The Last Remenant
>and SaGa Scaret Grace
Personally i started with the gameboy games but they might be a little too barebones compared to the mutant mess of crazy experimental mechanics that the series became. I haven't played the ps1 game but I hear that they're good to start with. also the PS2 remake of Romancing SaGa 1 is good for beginners

I still have no fucking clue what kino is specifically meant to refer to, but arguably SaGa Frontier 2. But its not one you should start with.

Yeah, Scarlet Grace definitely fixed that problem coming from Unlimited, there's a lot more stuff to do, much more nonlinearity and a shitload of events with multiple variations that give the game massive replay value, not to mention you have 80 recruitable characters, that's a massive cast.
>the game is still pretty sparse in terms of character/party dialog, which worries me
I wouldn't say Scarlet is sparse when it comes to dialogue, as far as the series goes of course, in fact it's the most fleshed out game in the series as all recruitables outside of your starter team have their own little stories, some of which are pretty lengthy as well.
Of course, this being a SaGa game means you don't have the party banter you might expect from something like Baldur's Gate, for the most part, your characters still end up being mostly nonexistent once you recruit them, though there's are quire a few exceptions to this rule, some characters end up playing active roles in certain quests if you have recruited them...or not, and many of these also end up being part of crucial event development that might even lead to their own deaths, in fact quite a few party members can die on you if you take certain routes or decisions, in some campaigns you might even end up killing the other MCs.
Frontier 2 is unanimously voted as most Kino, because it's THE SaGa game dedicated to storytelling, but really, all SaGa games have good amounts of kino.
Emilia's a good choice for beginners, so is Red, and to a certain extent, Asellus.
DO NOT START WITH LUTE OR RIKI.

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yeah they are all worth playing, Lute route is the weakest but still has a few cool moments. When you finish all seven you go to the developer room and can rebattle all final bosses at will, and there are a few bonus bosses too

You are one of the most disingenuous nonces to cross Yea Forums
This is your argumentative form, and you call yourself an adult? Please don't. You aren't one

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As long as they have decent quests tied to them I can handle party members being mute. It would always annoy me how most characters who join you in Unlimited give like a line of dialog before joining, then do absolutely fuckall after. Really puts a damper on the whole "freeform roleplaying" aspect the game hypes up.

youtube.com/watch?v=tomG4Z_CNyg

Yeah, I'm thinking it's kino.

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youtube.com/watch?v=04T-pUYN1bA
the DS version of this song just can't capture the melodramatic perfection
none of the fan arrangements can either

If SF2 is the most kino SaGa, what's the most ludo?

Should I start with Frontier 1 then?

Unlimited

Outside of your starting teams, all recruitable have little stories to them, some lengthier and more important than the others, while other people are relatively minor character who largely exist for powergaming.
Though even with the minor characters I must say that there's some nice stories in that game.

There's this one guy for instance, Seid Stabian, who's the mayor of a small town, you meet him a few times in the story by entering his town and he'll welcome you very loudly as a functionary of the empire in that game, with your MCs commenting a bit on his behaviour depending on who you're playing as.
At some point in the game, disaster strikes the region and he'll be flipping out for a bit, later on, depending on the MC you're playing as, he'll decide to join you because he's been inspired by your tales and decides to take matters in his own hand by defending his city personally, fighting alongside you.
It's really a short story but it's kind of nice and adds quite some flavour to the world, to see this clueless fatso who's not even that good of a mage man up and fight with you, there's quite a few characters with this kind of simple but fun stories.
Another character I really like in Scarlet is Thiago, but he's a major player in the story so it's normal that his story and character ends up being pretty elaborated, he's very cool though, definitely not what you'd expect by looking at him and the first times you meet him in the game.

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Start with Frontier 1, almost all people who are new to the series do.
It's kind of like the FF7 of the series in a way.

It's a strange feeling that this Yea Forums bait thread was turned into a reasonably good SaGa thread, while the only SaGa thread up on /vr/ right now is getting no replies.

Didn't notice that thread, last I've seen was a shitposting thread with Frontier's cover so I didn't pay a lot of attention.

What's the hardest SaGa game?

like a clam coating an irritating bit of grit until it becomes a pearl Yea Forums has a tendency to swarm negative threads with actual discussion. Meanwhile actual earnest discussion threads tend to just slide off the board with minimal replies.
Sad really

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Cause it's a unique way to improve character stats as opposed to flat levels and flat stats.

probably Unlimited SaGa

Romancing SaGa 2, Unlimited and Minstrel Song are overall the hardest, with TLR, Scarlet and maybe Frontier 2 following those, the rest is pretty easy unless you're a complete beginner, and the GB games are still very easy even for beginners.

Unlimited?

Are salamanders permanently gone if the volcano blows? I can't remember the scenario of what happens if you don't let the volcano blow.

unlimited by far just because of how obtuse it is, even by kawazu standards.

Yeah.

>Are salamanders permanently gone if the volcano blows?
Yep, all of Komurune is gone if you let the volcano pop.
Remember that your emperor will also be forced to abdicate if you choose that route.

Unlimited

I'l let you know once I can play it haha. I eagerly await.

I thought they only abdicate if you let the sorcerer go free?

GoS v2.09

Even beyond being nearly impenetrable without having a galaxy brain, Unlimited has some pretty dickass quest design and bosses, which is another reason why it's so good to me, some quests are really designed to fuck you over, like the abandoned castle quest having a really low turn limit or places like the Nakle lines being rape dungeons.

On the other hand, when you finally get how to play it and break it, it's a game that really gives you a certain kind of satisfaction few games can give you.
Iirc as long as you get the volcano to erupt you adbicate no matter where you decide to kill the sorceror or not after it.
I guess that depending on when you do it you might also choose to simply not complete the quest and leave it pending as long as you don't speak with the sorcerer.

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>It's really a short story but it's kind of nice and adds quite some flavour to the world, to see this clueless fatso who's not even that good of a mage man up and fight with you, there's quite a few characters with this kind of simple but fun stories.

That's really all I want. I like when worlds feel lived in with characters and stories you can come across without even expecting it. Steambot Chronicles is one of my favorite games because of that.

I'm sure you'll love it if that's what you're looking for.
Not just for the massive cast, but also because again, there's A LOT of quests and a lot of ways to progress through the game that changes events and how the world develops, Urpina's and Balmaint's campaigns are heavily focused on hard choice and consequence progression that does change how the story plays out AND gives you different lore pieces about both the world and the characters.
One of the most popular examples of this was Francis having something like five or six different routes that elaborate on his character, and in all of these you get a few different snippets on who he is, in a few of those you end up recruiting him, in others you end up killing him or fighting him in different places, in some of those he'll act all mysterious and suspicious while trying to cover up his research, in others you either catch him in the middle of his "work" or retroactively get a few hints about it, and he himself will behave differently depending on when you meet him, giving you different inputs on what you're currently doing.
Eidiel is another example of that, which is even better since despite being one of the "villains" in Urpina's campaign you can eventually choose to side with him and recruit him, it's a very, very rich game in that sense, much more than the previous games.

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>One of the most popular examples of this was Francis having something like five or six different routes that elaborate on his character, and in all of these you get a few different snippets on who he is, in a few of those you end up recruiting him, in others you end up killing him or fighting him in different places, in some of those he'll act all mysterious and suspicious while trying to cover up his research, in others you either catch him in the middle of his "work" or retroactively get a few hints about it, and he himself will behave differently depending on when you meet him, giving you different inputs on what you're currently doing.

See this is what I want more of in RPGs. I understand why its not always feasible, but that won't stop me from wanting it.

Scarlet really delivers well in terms of content.
One other thing you'll like is all the throwbacks to the previous games in the series and how they're also integrated in the game's own lore, when you'll get to pic related for instance it will put a big smile on your face.
The setting is also really interesting too, it's basically a hybrid of imperial rome and mesoamerican culture, with a few other things on the side, like a region being more or less pseudoitaly while another has elements of Irish folklore.
The gods' pantheon is also really interesting in this game too, and a major element in the world's lore and mechanics.

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What's the female equivalent to Brawlers in RS2?

SaGa + SaGa-inspired games, from hardest to easiest:

Unlimited > RS2 > The Last Remnant > Minstrel Song > The Legend Of Legacy > SF2 > SF1 > RS3 > SaGa 1-3 > The Alliance Alive

havent played Scarlet yet so I cannot rank it

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Were you ever able to beat a boss in a water devil den at max chain? I kinda gave up attempting on news of a remastered re-release and have been waiting for that to come out to start again

>So I finally bit the bullet.
Cringe

The kunoichi class, kind of.
They're the only other class with focus on martial arts, but they trade the brawler's high vitality for speed, the also come with sword levels, so while brawlers are dedicated tanks the Kunoichi are glass cannons.

everything else in the game being way too easy made me not care enough to try, I just killed the four of them normally + the dragons and then went and facerolled the final boss.

Minstrel Song is harder than TLR, and Alliance Alive is harder than the classic trilogy, or maybe I'm just a bit biased on the latter due to having played the GB games so much.

I've confused you with another user, it seems. He had made far more progress than I did in that aspect.

Did you sacrifice salamanders to get dark magic?

I did by accident. Tried stopping the flow but died before I presumably got it down to it's last 10%>

I did a few times.
Wasn't worth it, Salamanders are a better investment all around unless you really want the loot in the sunken island, some of those dark spells are fun though, like Hell Claw or Pain, if you want to run a full caster team some of those might be also not that bad.

I don't get why you'd ever go dark magic. I mean you can't give light magic to a character with dark, damn.

Dark Magic has Shadow Servant, Deadly Drive and Wraith Form, all of which are absurdly powerful spells.

If you want another way to cheese the game.

but muh sword barrier

>Why is SaGa held in such high regard
it's the rick and morty of jrpgs

Don't need Sword Barrier at all with Wraith Form, it's almost as disgustingly dishonest as Quicktime, I have a hard time finding something as dishonest as those two spells, outside of maybe Galaxy.

Nice, thanks user

No, I usually end up playing as a moralfag
Also, when the fuck is Romancing SaGa 3 coming to the fucking west? Same for Scarlet Grace. Fuck.
I love SaGa and OP is a faggot.

oh that's busted indeed, I thought it only blocked normal attacks like bite

Frontier 1 is pretty good, but you gotta have some patience because it has a lot of problems (mainly related to budget). Play the T-260G scenario first, I think it's one of the few that got a proper budget and it's a cute story

Emilia's a good MC to start with, but you should be fine with anyone outside of Riki and Lute, leave these two for last.
There's also a thread on /vr/ which will probably last some time so consider posting there if you have question as SaGa threads on Yea Forums usually die very fast.
I wish anyone knew, there's been nothing but silence since the E3 announcement.
On the other hand, that usually means they're deep at work.

As long as the attack isn't magical Wraith Form straight up ignores everything, since you're essentially a ghost.
Sure, you can't attack physically, but any caster strong enough to learn Wraith Form can usually drop nukes for days.

no physical moves, so that means also no feinting or similar waza? Mikiri against temptation etc work in wraith form as usual, right?

Mikiri work as usual since they count as passives.
Besides, you can just slap the usual rings on your caster to avoid charm.
What makes Wraith Form even more disgusting in the remaster is that there's items in the maze of memories that let you access Crimson Flare by channeling, which means you can build a Dark/Earth/Wind caster with Wraith Form, Shadow Servant, Vortex, Deadly Drive AND Crimson Flare.

It is necessary to reach the ending three times with a time slip in 1992.

Dark magic sucks in RS2 because you only get good spells at level 25+ and the game practically beats itself that that point, whereas light magic is useful much earlier
And you want to spam light magic against the meatball to change the field element

>at level 25+ and the game practically beats itself that that point
I thought these games were supposed to be challenging.

it's hyperbole, but a big chunk of RS2's difficulty is figuring out what is going on, once you realize how to dab on the seven heroes it's not such a hard game

They are, mostly because they rely on strategy rather than raw stats.
Level 25 is pretty high level for proficiencies, it's more or less equal to a level 10-12 in D&D so to speak, the proficiency cap is 49 and if you ever manage to reach it in the first place it means you're pretty much at epic level of proficiencies.
Granted that even if you do get at around the 30 or 40 range, if you do not understand the mechanics or strategy, you're not going to push through with sheer stats.