How do we simplify Guilty Gear without ruining the old appeal?

How do we simplify Guilty Gear without ruining the old appeal?

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Dial the gameplay back to Missing Link.

You don't. Its impossible to make it easier without also making it easier for hardcore people.

Its gonna be DBFZ tier and you know it. Be glad that we have Accent Core and Xrd.

Nah it will not be as easy as DBFZ. Daisuke said 'To create a game that both new and existing players alike would want to get their hands on.' And existing layer don't want DBFZ they want guilty gear.

this is true though. And I hope that the game won't get killed because noobs still get stomped and suddenly a lot easier game with a very known IP and GGPO comes out and erodes the newcomer fanbase leaving the old players with a game that they don't really wanted.

Even if it were easier for hardcore players, that doesn't mean it would lose its appeal. It just depends on how its made easier.

It will certainly not be. If GG goes downhill because its too easy or for any other reason, it's not going to be because it's trying to emulate BBTAG or DBFZ, it'll fail for its own reasons.

>Even if it were easier for hardcore players, that doesn't mean it would lose its appeal. It just depends on how its made easier.
>lower skill ceilling
>an expert will have mastered everything in less than a week
>still destroy casuals online anyway
>get bored of it
The DBFZ effect. Its fucking pathetic how the devs want to reduce the skills gap between the shitters and hardcore players.

They already did that with Xrd and it still retained the appeal of GG. There's a space between making things simpler while not ruining what makes the game good and making it braindead. It's not like if you removed Jump Installs from GG all of a sudden anyone competent will master the game effortlessly, but it would make people trying to learn Chipp have an easier time, making the game more simple overall.

>Nah it will not be as easy as DBFZ. Daisuke said 'To create a game that both new and existing players alike would want to get their hands on.' And existing layer don't want DBFZ they want guilty gear.
Yeah, but they also want to sell more games. DBFZ has big numbers even if the game is more dumbed. I think that they will try to make GG a less niche game.

Xrd isn't even that convoluted, is just that smooth brained casuals NEED their instant gratification and can't do half a dozen tutorial missions before sperging "game too hard baww"
Just make characters' hurtboxes more similar to one another, simplify character weight and remove redundant shit like jump installs, YRC eating inputs, danger time and mashing to tech. Fuck, slap auto combos in it for all I care, just let me do crazy, creative shit like I always could

>its not like removing this really hard thing to do will make the game easier to master!
Hum yes it will. They want the casuals to be able to do the same stuff that an expert can do without practice. Shit is fucking boring when everyone can play on the same level.

Just remove mash to tech and mashing out of stagger.

and I don't think that they're stupid enough to not realize that it sold because it was dragonball.
He also said that they want to use the defining features of all of guilty gears titles to create the new one so it would still feel like guilty gear. And guess what stupid hard combos are part of this. At the end of the day if the game does not survive the eventual exodus they can still ramp up the difficulty.

I didn't say it wouldn't make the game easier to master, I said someone competent wouldn't master the game just because of the mechanic's exclusion. It's not like GG is teetering on the edge of being overly simple and overly complex, there's room to change things while still keeping a high skill ceiling, and beyond that, retaining what makes the game fun, which is more than just the difficulty to begin with.

>make an already simple fighting game even easier?
why???
it's already a game with autocombo that lets you instakill your opponent with an input that's not even as big a casual filter as it should be.

>making it easier for hardcore people.
But I think some of them want that. There is a lot of bloat under the surface that not many people seem to really like. You could still have one of the most complex games on the market by stripping out a few things under the hood. I believe Tekken 7 did this to some degree and it has worked out well for that game. Simplification doesn't just mean 1 button specials, but also simplifying how complex each decision you need to make is. The ones that stand out to me are

>Unique wake-up timings
Make it the same for all the cast or just have 2 distinct groups. Get rid of face up vs face down timing

>R.I.S.C.
I don't think anyone likes this mechanic, and less even really get everything it does. Nobody learns the R.I.S.C. damage scaling for each move

>Different guts rating
A lot already dislike the mechanic, but it working different for different characters is even more annoying. Fuck it get rid of guts

>Dash Velocity and Acceleration
Again just standardise to a smaller number of groups. It is already kinda there but then they go nah venom needs 14210 rather than 14000 like a few other characters.

If you really try to get into GG and break down all the more esoteric mechanics it sometimes is more approachable than it seems. But I don't think anyone likes those aspects and a similar appeal could be found with simpler systems. Most of this system data stuff really could e tied to weight, so if you just learn what to do vs each weight class then you are already there.

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>I don't think anyone likes this mechanic
I do, I'd be pretty unhappy to see it go. I think it's a much better mechanic for a guard break kind of thing than any other attempt at that kind of mechanic. It encourages you to not just sit and block, but at the same time it never takes away the defensive options at your disposal. It's much better than punishing you for blocking too long by just making it so you can't do it anymore. I would want dash velocity and acceleration to stay too, but I agree with the wake up timings and Guts, I could do without them.

>and I don't think that they're stupid enough to not realize that it sold because it was dragonball.
I agree, but that game gave Arc System a big boost in recognition with the normies. It makes sense if they want to take advantage of that to sell a more casual GG that could do better in the market. The hardcore GG fanbase cant sustain the whole company once that DBFZ players begin to get bored.

Doesn't need to be simplified- just fucking remove 1 frame throws. They're a retarded idea and they always have been.

They should keep them, I like them. They make you approach throws differently from every other fighting game.

>It encourages you to not just sit and block
I think chip damage does a good enough job of this already, good defence should be rewarded but it is ticking away at you going hey just blocking will eventually lead to death. If you want another system on top it really doesn't need stuff like different R.I.S.C. inertia ratings per character. I think a lot of people will already glaze over when they hear about the mechanic, and then there are a few more levels to it after that where you'll just keep losing interest. And that is already of the small group who will go outside the game to research this stuff.

>I would want dash velocity and acceleration to stay too
I get why you'd like it, but does Venom really need 210 more velocity than Faust? And does May really need 227.5 less than Elphelt. I don't think that 0.5 holding the series together. All of them could be 14000 and the game would be just as good.

Part of all this is just making it a more clear defined thing for players. Spread sheets of data where you have to internalise what a data point means is going to be a turn off. But if in game they could just display it as
>May
>Light Class
>-RISC level - low
>-Air Dash - slow
It would make stuff way easier, you just learn the 3 classes, have it display on character select and you have a way better idea going in instead of learning it for 20+ characters. It would take some changes to make everyone fit neatly but I think it is doable.

Apply Killer Instincts combo system.

>The hardcore GG fanbase cant sustain the whole company once that DBFZ players begin to get bored.
I don't see that as the goal of GG though. GG is the passion project and tech demo. It earns them a reputation and headlines. So then Mr Jimmy Cygames comes along and goes oh you do the graphics good, here is a pile of money to make a video game. Xrd earned them 2 big projects and a mid level one with KLK if. DBFZ2/Jump FighterZ/One PieceZ is obviously going to happen, 4 million sales and a huge boost to the image of DB video games means a whole lot. They likely already have a new licensed game in the work, and with GG2020 revealed every company with an anime IP will be saying why doesn't our game look like that we could be getting so much attention.

>I think chip damage does a good enough job of this already
I think for a game like GG that encourages aggression it's understandable to want something extra to keep the players from just sitting there and blocking, it's something other games have tried as well, but I think RISC does a much better job than the alternatives by never taking away your defensive options. I'd be fine with making it more standardized, but I like the mechanic itself.

>All of them could be 14000 and the game would be just as good.
I agree with what you say prior to this, but I wouldn't want everybody to be the same like that. Even if it's fairly minor, it's the kind of thing that can reflect on a characters playstyle and individuality, and I like that even for those more minor aspects. Generalizing it a bit more and being clear about what character is faster than another is fine though. They don't need to get into the decimal places to make a difference in these stats, but I still would like to see a difference.

Being clear about this kind of thing would be nice too, but that's something that could be done with the game in general, showing framedata for moves and the like as well.

But the DBFZ players did get bored soon after the release like in any other fighting game.
Isn't it the amount of initial copies that is what holds them afloat? Normies will not stick to fighting games either way. It has been shown time and time again.
Even the current steamcharts numbers show a decline after the growth sport caused by the trailer. People inherently don't want to commit to things like training mode or actually learning for a game. They're all deluded that if the new version is easier they will get to do all the cool stuff. There will be no cool stuff t do if the game actually gets down to the level of DBFZ. They also still won't be able to get over themselves and lab.
So the hardcore GG fanbase will go in on a way to easy version of their game and stomp the hell out of the newcomers. Then the newcomers will leave and the game will be dead again but this time not even the original fan base likes it.
I don't believe that ArcSys has not thought about this.
I mean I doubt that Bamco is not waiting for DBFZ's death. Just to run over in that very minute and comission a Naruto or One Piece fighting game or whatever they have in mind. So ArcSys should really not try to simplify the only game they still have that is not super easy.