So why is this game so widely criticized on Yea Forums? Has some of the best gameplay in the series...

Because zoomers don't actually like SMT, they latch on to Nocturne because they want to be anti-Persona contrarians and think liking the edgy fuck you one more god rejected be Lucifer's cocksleeve game makes them cool on the Internet, so anything that isn't just more Nocturne is considered bad.

I agree the combat is great, but there’s something about the story, the designs, and the overall tone that really makes me irrationally hate the game.

Nocturne is fun though

The consensus is that while the story sucks it has the best gameplay so far. Lurk more.

I agree, Nocturne was my first SMT game. The difference being I got into it when I was in junior high school back when it was released, while zoomers only got into it a couple years ago and emulate it, or they just watch cutscenes on YouTube.

the doi demons are way better than whatever the fuck they attempted in 4 though

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This. Nocturne attracted the worse sort of people despite it not being representative of SMT

But Apocalypse is way different compared to SMT and SMT 2.
It’s not about being contrarian, but about what separates a SMT game from a persona game. Even the Devil Survivor games are more SMT-esque than Apocalypse.

>all future SMT games will probably drop first person dungeon crawling and battles

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Characters are really hit and miss.
But I like most of everything else about it.

Need some incentive for a Phys build

you mean like how its mostly been since nocturne aside from SJ?
what?

Just get the mp recovery app.

>But you die-hard SMT fans can't stand "muh power of friendship"
It simply doesn't belong in the series. There are thousands of other JRPGs for that, it's stale. Also, they're not as interesting as you claim, in my opinion

Nu-Lucifer still looks like absolute trash. Satan still looks worse than Kaneko’s. Just because Odin looks better than the blue man doesn’t mean all other fucked designs get a pass.

Nocturnefags and P3fags are the illogical extreme of both fanbases.

YHVH did nothing wrong

IV had first person battles. The only full 3D games are Nocturne and Nine.

>not diaper odin
Cringe

Because I wanted to love it and it could have been one of the best ones BUT it had so much bullshit.

The battles were nothing short of amazing, the music was good, tokyo was ok could have been better but the story was meeeeeeh, the characters were meeeeeeeeeeeh apart from 2,3 people
and dont get me started on the world map and searching for the sidequests. Just thinking about them is giving me a headache.

Soul Hackers is still my favourite game and this game almost took its spot...almost.

>It’s not about being contrarian, but about what separates a SMT game from a persona game.
You're literally just proving my point. You don't judge 4A based on whether it's actually good or interesting, you're judging it entirely on whether it has anything even remotely similar with Persona, and by Persona, you really just mean Persona 4.

>not this odin
oof AND yikes

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Because it just isn’t interesting. There is nothing stand out or engaging about the game. That’s why it ganders to be judged and compared to a spin off. Nobody compares SMTIV to Persona for a reason. Nobody compares Devil Survivor to Persona either.
All Apocalypse has to stand on and set it apart is the combat. That’s it.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

>and dont get me started on the world map and searching for the sidequests
Massive improvement over IV where you might as well find your way from an actual map of Tokyo on the side instead
Both has great music though
youtube.com/watch?v=qDsDYCI3fyc
youtube.com/watch?v=7prWEHN8_HA

Won't argue with the gameplay, it's fantastic. So, coming from someone who actually LIKES SMT4A:
>Party is a bunch of passive errand boys doing stuff for other people until the very end of the game
>Half the time you are But Thou Must'd into doing really stupid shit for Dagda because of his overly complex plan
>Worldbuilding is atrocious, if you haven't played IV you won't know jack about what's happening aside from everyone sucking Flynn dick all the time
>Main cast is pretty one-note, they have their motives and even development, sure, but they don't have much of a personality sans Navarre/Gaston
And of course, the "muh power of friendship" argument is valid, because that's the main draw of Persona, not SMT. I like Persona. I like mainline SMT. But could we, like... not mix the two?

SMTIV is the only persona game i've beaten but the "dungeons" were fucking awful, tedious and uninspiring. I've seen maps of SJ and it looks infinitelly better, what about the rest of the mainline games?

>Nobody compares Devil Survivor to Persona either.
I've seen plenty of people do so, though often derisively to claim that DeSu were better Persona games than Persona.

>SMTIV is the only persona game i've beaten

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Don't fucking reply to it.

DeSu gets the comparison because of the attractive female cast, and dialog choices.
Apocalypse gets the comparison from the themes and the tone of the game.
One comparison is more substantial and less superficial than the other for good reason.

Currently playing this n its pretty good. The gameplay is refined so well it is so much fun.
The plot is okay, but its certainly not terrible so far. There were some moments where i rolled my eyes but overall, the story is still interesting: certainly not as good as smt 4 though.

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>attractive female cast
only DeSu2 had that

I just woke up and you're all shitting on persona, please bear with me.

>Apocalypse gets the comparison from the themes and the tone of the game.
I can see the comparisons to Persona 5, in that the themes of both games were completely missed by people who assumed it would just being Persona 4 and turned their brains off, but that doesn't make it actually true.

Mari, Misaki, Shoji, Naoya, Haru, Amane

Just because all DeSu 1/OC fags want to suck cousin cocks doesn't mean Yasuda didn't put in his anti-gravitits

Holy shit user SMT games law and chaos arent exactly the deepest shit ever compared to frenz.
Take off your fedora faggot.
Smt 4 a is nothing like persona.
>no social link
>smirk system and turn press
>no slice of life stuff
Ffs i hate pretentious faggots that get all worked up their smt game isnt edgy enough

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>law and chaos arent exactly the deepest shit ever compared to frenz
Never said that, either. I like SMT primarily for the atmosphere and demon designs, and not only is IV:A's atmosphere trash, but I don't care much for the new demon designs in that game, either.
>Take off your fedora faggot
Fuck off, bitch.

I agree.
Comparing Apocalypse to Persona is just a lazy way of saying it has a mediocre plot and boring characters. People don’t want to go into reasoning Apocalypse’s poor execution.
The main reason the comparison is made though is because Apocalypse just doesn’t feel like a SMT game, tonally and stylistically. Apocalypse makes more sense as a spin off like DDS, and Strange Journey, than as a mainline game.

I did but I had to bring them back because that free persona attack is too useful

Should I get Trisagion/Ice Age/Thunder Gods/Deadly Wind or stay with my all 4 +9 -dynes?

yeah

Yes he did
Being in my fucking way.

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Dagda and Toki were the only redeeming parts of that dumpsterfire, and they went and screwed the pooch with Toki 90% into the game.

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Yeah but iv: a isnt a mainline game. They just wanted to make another smt game on the 3ds that isnt smt 5.
The story and the characters obviously feel like an after thought because they were created around established plot, settings, and characters of 4.
Id understand the hate if this was smt 5 but its just a sequal to 4.

That won't help you against Stephen.

Bruh what it’s literally the most SMT game ever.
You kill your friends god then make ever shake in fear as you slaughter them
The tacked on Persona ending was gay but I consider Apocalypse to be the canon ending

Hey now, Gaston was cool once he stopped being a cunt and got humbled.

Gaston was alright too but he eats your press turns which is a death sentence against yhvh.

She should have said
“I still love you but I can’t stand by this.
Sometimes love hurts and I have to stop you”

I only felt like it was needed in the Krishna fight after you killed them. The other fights didn't make me want an extra turn clutch like that one.

She should have just sided with you. Nothing in her character before portrays her as anything other than a chaosfag.

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I just went with Asahi
Her and Dagda were the only people I gave a fuck about

It’s just as main line as IF, which is more so than most spin offs.

Have you ever played any SMT games that came out before Noctrune?

That too
I would’ve perferred

1. She joins you

2. After the fight Dagda asks you do you want her as your queen or someone else

3 if you say someone else Dagda uses his new soul absorbing powers to take her soul then offers you one of your other friend’s souls in exchange

the guest designs in 4 weren't bad on a conceptual level, just executed badly. Case in point, Nirasawa's Medusa, which Doi simply redrew (but kept the same design).

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I emulated SMT on SNES forever ago and never beat if that counts

Not bad at all.

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Not good either.

No, but then again that's him Salvaging Ayyy YHVH. I take back what I said about not bad because some WERE really really bad. Guess what it was Nirasawa again.

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SMTV WHEN

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That’s fine. I just remember SMT being about deciding the fate of humanity in a very heavy handed and this is a choice that’s brought up from the beginning of the game to the end. Lawfags vs. Chaosfags. SMT Apocalypse has a bootleg version of this. Give me a on the same level as Walter or even Jonathan in Apocalypse. There a depth in the series that is absolutely absent in Apocalypse.
That’s just what I feel for someone who’s loved the series for a long time now.

Major artists:

Nirasawa is the one that did a bunch of designs that were basically just drawn in Prismacolor markers and then scanned right into the game. Has a boner for really long gangly bird talon hands, dunno why. Designed Centaur, Medusa, Lucifer forms 1 and 2, Asmodeus and Michizane. Overall pretty much misses but I like the concepts on Centaur and Medusa (which Doi redrew)

Amemiya really, really likes forced asymmetry. He designed Lilith, the 4 Archangels and both forms of Merkabah so just looking at all of them should cement what I meant by asymmetry. Lots and lots of superfluous edgy scraps hanging off demons, random bird talons here and there.

Shinohara I feel did mostly solid designs except for Chemtrail and the DLC. Designed Napaea, Minotaur, Dullahan, Koga Saburo, Tenkai, Chemtrail, Sanat and Ancient of Days. Minotaur and Koga Saburo were probably his best received designs.

Doi redrew any reappearing design of these that ended up in 4A, which included:
Napaea (probably the only downgrade), Lucifer, Merkabah, Centaur and Medusa. maybe a few others I can't remember, though he did draw a lot of guest designs for promotional material for SMT4, such as the archangels.

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I probably hate Amemiya's designs the most because it's just fucking, scaps of metal sticking out here, bird talon sticking out there, what do these have to do with the mythology of the demon in particular? eh who cares I think it looks cool. That's why Lilith is like some kind of crow spider bitch instead of snake themed.

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I like apocalypse for the simple fact that the gameplay is really fucking good and dagda was amazing the real selling point is killing all your "friends" if you don't go for that route because the free persona atacks is op of course the game is gonna be shit

It is only in lne ending yo, the apocalypse ending is the better since it gibe muh power of friendship a stab in the gut

it still stinks that effectively the endings are still mostly the same.

"agh fuck YHVH let's kill him" is the end result regardless. It would have been more fun if they did let you side with the polytheistic gods

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>But you die-hard SMT fans can't stand "muh power of friendship" contaminating your dark and edgy RPG.

I hate JRPG's and only like SMT because this shit is absent, so yeah it's pretty annoying.

it isn't in most JRPGs, it's a fucking meme
even FF doesn't have it most of the time

It's in enough of them to turn me off majority of the genre, and if it isn't that there's something else I hate in most of them. What kept me interested in SMT was the unique atmosphere and the combat system is actually fun which is another thing most JRPG's suck at.

I enjoyed it, but FUCK the final dungeon.

>nothing but long corridors
>you can't talk to demons in it, only fight them
>doors that suddenly have stat requirements to get treasure that as far as I'm aware, aren't anywhere else in the game so you have no idea that they come up
>everything looks the same, you get teleported to random parts of the map, so it's trial and error trying figure out which way to go
>no real puzzles or anything interesting, just a big blocky black floor and space
>shit takes like 2 hours long to go through

The only cool thing is Flynn helps you out and YHVH is a enjoyable enough boss with you controlling two teams but fuck everything else. What a obviously padded ass dungeon.

Diamond Realm DLC was cool though.

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Would be nice an scenario where dagda joins them divine powers and you go to kill yhvh with shesha tootman and godslayer flynn

Horde of Metatron's first appearance was a nice moment desu

I can't even remember what it was, I got to the World Egg thing and then got bored

That's the dungeon before the final dungeon. Final dungeon is like x4 that in terms of padding and is a lot more boring.