FF6 sucks ass

>FF6
>billion dollar game
dumb fucking retard

FF7 fags are just assmad that FF6 is considered the best in the series. They will cry it's contrarianism when by 2003 major publications like IGN didn't even consider FF7 a top 100 game

everything you point out is character progression and sticking to their personality instead of allowing people like you to shove their self insert like you do with cloud.
it also sounds like you got your ass kicked so hard that you didnt realize there are multiple paths to take.

> Final Fantasy VI (859 Million Grossed)
> Final Fantasy VII (1.3 Billion Grossed)
> Final Fantasy X/X-2 (1.7 Billion Grossed)
> Final Fantasy XIV (1.9 Billion Grossed)

wooooow
but was it an official statement that 6 was voted the best in the series?
if so good. I love 9 the best but its 6 that takes home the Best Trophy.

>it also sounds like you got your ass kicked so hard that you didnt realize there are multiple paths to take.
The majority of FF6 is completely on rails. You aren't even allowed to pick your party members for a huge chunk of the World of Balance, much less freely explore.

>Betrayal of Krondor
who has even heard of this shit, are you 45 years old or something

thats most ff games you simplton. you got to play 3 choices in mid game then you had tp collect party members end game to which is always the final fantasy standard when you get and airship and go where ever the fuck you want, mean while your decisions in the game make it to where you may or may not get certain characters. I think it was too much for OP.

>being intelligent means you must be old
what is sad right now is that you just outed yourself as a retard and underage.

>Terra, ostensibly the protagonist
nope

But OP, FF5 is the real contrarian hipster faggot choice.

>FF7 fags are just assmad that FF6 is considered the best in the series.
By a very dedicated vocal minority, yes.

I'm neither a retard nor underage, I'm 24, and being more intelligent doesn't equate to having heard of more video games
that said, I actually know quite a few fucking old games but this particular MS DOS rpg wasn't on the list. at first I meant it as a compliment but now I'm genuinely curious, how old are you?

>Writing is not hardware-related, why would it be a "product of the age"?
Trends are a thing, user. What would be considered cliche and annoying now would be considered fresh then.

>you got to play 3 choices in mid game
What choices? Your only 'choice' is which one of 3 completely linear and disconnected vignettes you get to do first. How is this choice? You're barely even exploring new places, as Locke's scenario takes place in Figaro and Terra's just goes back to Narshe.

>mean while your decisions in the game make it to where you may or may not get certain characters.
Is this supposed to be noteworthy? Even FF7 has optional characters like Yuffie and Vincent, much less other RPGs,

The fact that the only thing you can come up with to defend FF6consists of bragging about incredibly basic features present in most RPGs says volumes about how shitty FF6 is.

>You aren't even allowed to pick your party members for a huge chunk of the World of Balance
By "a huge chunk" you mean the beginning right? The choose your scenario is the end of the beginning of the game, and right after that you can pick your part.
>much less freely explore.
Halfway through the WOB you get the airship.

Why the fuck you lyin?

>With any classic RPG, the implication was that, regardless of what the game showed, the trip between towns and story points took several days. There was no way to realistically display this time that wasn't arbitrary.
Are you for real? Fucking Dragon Quest 3 had a fully functional day-night overworld, which alone helped set a sense of scale on how long an adventure would take.

>Trends are a thing, user. What would be considered cliche and annoying now would be considered fresh then.
Yet somehow that's not the case for other media. I can read a book from the 50's or watch a movie from the 70's or indeed, play other RPGs from the 90's and still be entertained.

Maybe FF6 is simply not very good?

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm simply stating that "writing can age" is technically true from a modernist perspective.

imagine thinking 6 is better than 5

Reminder Suikoden II did the evil nihilist destructive asshole villain way better than FFVI.

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34, so 10 years, born in 1985. And being intelligent does equate knowing things to the subject that you are talking about.
How could you not know this?

Imagine thinking 5 is better than Tactics.

wether to get other party members like shadow gogo the yeti the moogle with the moogle charm.
Again if a game is on the rails of a story and gives you movement inbetween thats more than what you got in lets say 13.
none the less you missed it because you were too focused on being over critical of the game.

>Is this supposed to be noteworthy?
yes, its called intelligence. its to show you have opportunities that you wont get again. its what makes game great and challenging. Are you this retarded.

Those flaw you mentionned are all valid and understandable, but I fail to see how this make it worse than FF7, I mean, it ultimately has a somewhat coherent plot right?

the flaws are the same in 7

>Suikoden II
>doing anything better
Luca isn't even the final boss, much less a compelling antagonist. He doesn't even act of his own will, as he is basically posessed by the Beast Rune, and it's that Beast that is the final boss.

More in general, Suikoden 2's story utterly fails as a tale between two friends being forced to fight each other because Jowy's motivations are unclear at best and downright nonsensical at worst. He's also hard to take seriously as a threat because he never does anything of note once he has power, he just keeps losing ground while the game tries to pretend he's got some kind of grander scheme going on.

So Jowy is a terrible character, but so is the other main character, who is a completely silent protagonist with zero personality, hopes or dreams.

And then in the true ending I’m just supposed to believe that they run off into the sunset together as best bros just like old times, even though they were literally trying to murder one another just earlier.

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I'd say FF7 is pretty much worse on basically every aspect.

you are very smart
and also on the spectrum

Yes
> 2003 IGN Games: FF6 (10th) > FF4 (43rd) > FFX (85th) > Unranked
> 2004 IGN Games: FF6 (24th) > FF4 (56th) > FFX (86th) > FF7 (88th) > Unranked
> 2005 IGN Games: FF6 (20th) > FF7 (29th) > FFX (82nd) > Unranked
> 2006 IGN Games: FF6 (8th) > FF7 (20th) > FFX (60th) > Unranked
> 2007 IGN Games: FF6 (9th) > Tactics (38th) > FF4 (55th) > FF7 (76th) > Unranked
> 2008 IGN Games: FF6 (13th) > FF7 (30th) > FFX (48th) > Unranked
> 2012 IGN RPGs: FF6 (1st) > FFIV (5th) > FF7 (11th) > Tactics (14th) > FFX (64th) > FF9 (88th) > FF8 (97th)
> 2015 IGN Games: FF6 (28th) > Tactics (67th) > FF7 (80th) > Unranked
> 2018 IGN RPGs: FF6 (2nd) > Tactics (18th) > FFIV (22nd) > FF12 (31st) > FF9 (40th) > FF7 (52nd) > Unranked)
> 2018 IGN Games: FF6 (18th) > Tactics (71st) > FF7 (99th) > Unranked

did you have this lying around or did you just type it up for the thread?

Have sex

I googled it, it took me like 3 minutes. Anyway, why did FFX recieve such a drop off after the 2000s?

>I'd say FF7 is pretty much worse on basically every aspect.
They're the same game. Same combat system, same style of invisible random encounters, same interface style, same style of storytelling and presentation, same music composer, same spotty translation, etc.

The major difference is that FF7 has a much more fleshed out characters, a more character-driven story, slightly more challenging combat, low-polygonal character models instead of sprites and pre-rendered 2D backgrounds instead of tiled 2D backgrounds.

So all in all, I'd say FF7 is the better game.

>why did FFX recieve such a drop off after the 2000s?

youtu.be/pi96ucB7ZdI
because this video was released in September of 2009

you have moments like pic related, yeah you are gonna leave with best trophy.

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Oh you know, standards evolve, people start to recognize trash for what it is, and FFX doesn't have the criticism-deflecting excuse of "being released in 1994".

I"m surprised you managed to enjoy the absolute mess FF7 has for in place of a story, and frankly all of the character in FF7 strike me as just being obvious stereotypes that never quite break the mold they're made out of.

I like 4, 7, and 12 the most. Don't even @ me my opinions are fact.

no it can, what with games just acquiring voice acting scenes and actors were new to the concept of early 2000s. Translation was something that was still rocky so it always seemed off.

go to bed timmy

I only compare FF games in the same generation to each other, trying to tank them outside of that always feels inaccurate to me.
2 > 3 > 1 (2 had the strongest plot by far of the first three, and though I know a lot of people dislike the systems, it was the basis for the SaGa series which I love dearly)
5 > 6 > 4 (5 is a masterpiece, 6 I enjoyed well enough but 4 just felt like it was painting by numbers for most of the game)
7 > 8 > 9 (Really felt 9 was a step backwards in terms of freedom to customize your battle setups, and the story felt like it crossed the line from homage to retread of the older games)
X > X-2 > XII (XII is one of the most bizarrely paced games I have ever played)
XIi-2 > LR > XIII (I pity the people who dropped this trilogy after XIII, the sequels are legit)

But Kefka isn't a CUHRAZY evil asshole villian. He was normal soldier who's mind got shattered by torturous experiments that were supposed to make him a super-soldier. He hates the empire and literally becomes god to say fuck you to Gestalt. What he does is out of spite, not nihilism

>no it can, what with games just acquiring voice acting scenes and actors were new to the concept of early 2000s.
"New to the concept?" What concept? Most games released in the mid-90's and onwards had voice acting (and better voice acting than FFX, at that)

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> FF6 has been circlejerked for 25 years & now we've reached a point to were the contrarian opinion is saying it's worse than FF7
What a time to be alive

what final fantasy had voice acting before 10?

>I"m surprised you managed to enjoy the absolute mess FF7 has for in place of a story, and frankly all of the character in FF7 strike me as just being obvious stereotypes that never quite break the mold they're made out of.

Of course they're stereotypes. One of the characters is literally Mr. T.

Still, that's more than I can say for FF6. Not only do the characters barely even speak, but when they do, it's just some bland platitude devoid of any actual personality or characterization.

In fact, the characters in FF6 are so generic that some of their dialogue is literally copy-pasted from each other. I.e. they will say the same generic lines in certain story scenes, no matter which of the characters in your party.

thats what 7 is guilty of

>WRPG has better writing than JRPG
You don't say...

But 7 is much better paced. It takes a long time for the party to get back to normal after Aerith's death. And most of their traumatic moments happened off-screen anyways.

You got me there. Never played DQ3. I'm sure the day/night cycle really helped accentuate the superb writing and story that game had.

ok so your argument is based from you just liking 7 the best. You cant actually get out of your fandom and look at this objectively enough to make a sound argument.

>Luca isn't even the final boss
Did you miss the point? He's meant to be the catalyst that causes everything to get thrown in disarray in the first place, similar to Kefka. Even when your party finally corners him and takes him out after a long grueling battle, he STILL accomplished everything he wanted, and died without a single regret, crying out for blood while doing so.
>much less a compelling antagonist.
He's far more compelling than Kefka is. Kefka adds nothing to the plot of FFVI, he's arbitrarily hamfisted into the story while doing absolutely nothing of importance, and only attains relevance when the plot deemed so. Meanwhile Luca is easily one of the most important and influential figures in Suikoden II's story, even after his death.
>He doesn't even act of his own will, as he is basically posessed by the Beast Rune, and it's that Beast that is the final boss.
Oh so you're a retard who never played the game. Luca did literally everything out of his own volition, you dumb fucking secondary. He simply was interested in the potential destruction the Beast Rune could cause and went out of his way to fuel it, he was never "controlled" by it. Luca simply wanted death. The fact you missed the point of such a straightforward villain makes me believe you don't hold an opinion worth sharing.

I'm not gonna bother with the rest of your post because it's incoherent rambling that has nothing to do with Luca.

>But Kefka isn't a CUHRAZY evil asshole villian.
Yes he fucking was.
>He was normal soldier who's mind got shattered by torturous experiments that were supposed to make him a super-soldier.
Wow two-three sentences by some throwaway NPC.
>He hates the empire and literally becomes god to say fuck you to Gestalt.
And nukes the entire World.
>What he does is out of spite, not nihilism
It's both.

The problem is that they went for an ensemble cast but there are characters who fulfil the exact same role in the ensemble
>Terra and Celes are both women who have been used by the empire and robbed of their past, and struggle to come to terms with their abilities and why they're here
>Celes actually gets character development, Terra doesn't other than "muh orphans"
>Setzer/Locke are men ruled by a tragic event with a woman in their past
>Setzer/Locke/Edgar are all le cheeky charming dashing chap

Op has a problem of thinking anything that doesnt fallow the same tropes he gets from ff7 is shit. Thats how he defines his objectivity. there is no point in talking about the vast amounts of types of villains if they dont look and act like sephiroth.

I never said I liked 7 or that it was the best. Compared to 6, it has better writing and pacing. I'm not even saying THAT is good, either.

I think you watch too many animes because even though 6 was a japanese made game it did something different, they tried the whole Quinton Tarantino pulp fiction shit. Not only was that good story telling it was showing perspectives of characters you didnt get before because they focused on someone else previously.

7 was the refinement of themes that 6 attempted unsuccessfully.
6 tried to have a series of villains who were sympathetic and misguided, but didn't pull it off because Kefka was simply too far gone and you never got a glimpse at how he became that way. Similarly Gestahl is only ever seen in full retard mode, you never get the idea he wants more power to improve the world or a the like.
Compare this to Sephiroth who is such a beloved character because he's as much as a victim as anyone else in the game, born and raised as a living weapon, praised as a hero for things that he knew weren't heroic, and absolutely misguided more than malevolent. You can watch the decline in his mental state, understand why he makes the mistakes he does. Similarly Shinra may be responsible for some heinous shit but at the core they seek to advance humanity with the Neo Midgar project. All of the things they do are leading to an end goal that they consider worth the cost. Jenova is simply a wild animal following it's instincts, as Lavos was in CT, you can't really call it evil. The only true villain in the game is Hojo, and even he has more of a human side to him than Kefka.

>multiple perspectives
>Tarantino
Get the fuck out of here, zoomer.

Tarantino is a hack though.

I couldn't agree with you any more.
FF6 isn't even a good game and nobody would even know what Final Fantasy series is if it wasn't for FF7, which should have been stand-alone tile so that people would't even associate it with FF6 abomination
There is a reason why FF7 is being remade...

celes is the protag (or locke if ur a fag in denial) not terra

how old are you? it was popular story style at the time to switch them in mid story.

eat shit nigger

When a rom cart has size limitations you’re limited to how much text you can have in a game. Pc games weren’t affect by this, but hardware did limit story on console games.

if you are a child and didn't understand the whole point of all these things are happening at once and then gets tied together.

FF7 is dogshit and you're probably retarded

>click on final fantasy thread
>NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS NUMBERS in every post
i know why but it's just funny seeing every post filled with numbers, roman or otherwise.

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I don't care about your point retard.

ffp z 10-2

thats because you are retarded child who just wants to bitch because the thing you like isnt the best thing ever.

ok retard

>When a rom cart has size limitations you’re limited to how much text you can have in a game. Pc games weren’t affect by this, but hardware did limit story on console games.
The problem with FF6's writing isn't lack of quantity, it's lack of quality. It has worse writing than other snes rpgs.

>zoom zoom

FF6 and FF5 are the only good games in this overrated franchise. Only normalfags still pretend that Final Fantasy 7 (or any other game of this franchise) is a masterpiece.

Tactics shits all over both.

FFVII is the most overrated game of all time after Ocarine of Time

I don't get this meme. Tactics is pretty shit.

That's because you're a vapid 5fag, probably.

nah, tactis is mediocre at best

Final Fantasy Tactics sucks lol

What didn't you like?

Why do Final Fagasys fight so much? Why do people cling onto one game and shit on all the others? No other series of games has this fucking problem.

>Luca simply wanted death.
And this is supposed to be a well-written villain worthy of jerking off over how exactly? Violent psychopaths are a dime a dozen in video games, and Luca's characterization and dialogue is bland and forgettable (could be the fault of a crappy localization though).

>he was never "controlled" by it.
Actual dialogue from the game:

>"[the blight clan] has become servants...slaves to that rune"

I never played it as a kid because JRPGs was a complete unknown. Bought a SNES Classic (and packed it full of ROMs), got into it, then got ass-blasted by someone called MagiMaster. He wrecked me so many times I had to find a guide, which said use reflect, but it reflects my fucking healing spells. Always said I'll come back to it, never did.

Seven is far superior in story, although I don't have much faith in the Remake.

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>shuts down arguments with memes with projecting

because there are so many shallow faggots that can't get over their nostalgia to actually have a productive conversation about the series.

Terra is my wife

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Eh, I do think the writing is messy but I think you're focusing on the wrong thing. The cast is a mixed bag but they have their moments. They're pretty alright for a JRPG of that generation. The real strange writing is in the overarching story, especially the big cataclysmic events like when Kefka kills every Esper at once in the same scene with some new unexplained superpower or when he destroys the world with the statues that are suddenly the most important thing ever even though we learned of them less than an hour ago. It's really still the same seat-of-your-pants writing style that brought us FF4's moon.

you know Kefka was created to do that right, but it made him go nuts instead.

>The real strange writing is in the overarching story, especially the big cataclysmic events like when Kefka kills every Esper at once in the same scene with some new unexplained superpower or when he destroys the world with the statues that are suddenly the most important thing ever even though we learned of them less than an hour ago.

IIRC the game was originally only planned to have the world of balance, but development went faster than they anticipated so they added world of ruin at the last minute.

I think that would explain those plot holes.

>It's really still the same seat-of-your-pants writing style that brought us FF4's moon.
whats wrong with that? You know this is a japanese game right? The Moon is "biggly" important in their culture, more so than just a rabbit making mochi on the moon. Its where some gods would reside.
Also since they lived on an island the moon affects the tides of japan greatly which made the moon that much more significant.

This is by far the worst opinion I have ever seen on a FF rpg

FF6 is that one game Japan doesn't even like, but western baka gaijins hail as the best because it "has the most bestest graphics on snes" and "muh nostalgia" and "at least it's not FF7 so I don't look like some person who actually can express liking something despite it being popular"
Just look at the remake on IOS/Steam, you can tell Japan doesn't give one flying fuck about FF6, compared to the love FF4 and FF7 gets, the superior games.

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you can stop pretending to be japanese faggot, no one is impressed.

He's right though. FFVI didn't even crack Japan's top 20 games, whereas even FFXV (lol) did.

He's right though

no he isnt because they even say they skipped 6 because of 7 and they wanted to remake 6.

>whereas even FFXV (lol) did.
wait for real? japan is fucked up sometimes. I mean I liked 15's story but it wasn't final fantasy to me.

You got your remake already, enjoy it

>I liked 15's story
Oufh, I liked FF15's setting right up until Leviathan, after that the game just nosedived

>wait for real?

mynintendonews.com/2019/04/24/japan-heres-famitsus-top-20-games-of-the-heisei-era/

Chrono Trigger
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
NieR: Automata
Final Fantasy VII
Okami
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Final Fantasy X
Pokémon Red/Green/Blue/Yellow
Dragon Quest V
Xenogears
Vainglory
Suikoden II
Mother 2 (Earthbound)
Splatoon 2
Tactics Ogre
Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (Monster Hunter Freedom Unite)
Kingdom Hearts
(Number 17 tie) Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy XI
(Number 20 tie) Pokémon Diamond & Pearl

No that's fine, I quite like how unapologetic IV is about the story clearly being written as it goes along. It also doesn't try to make you emotional too often though and that's where I feel a bit of a mismatch in VI between the writing and the intended tone. VI feels a lot more serious.

Mind you, there are plenty of individual sequences I like in FF6 too. I don't mean to sound like I hate the game or anything.

They stopped at IV and skipped to VII though

>It also doesn't try to make you emotional too often

>literally half a dozen character die a fake soap opera death for the sole purpose of shocking the player, only to later turn out to have survived
>"doesn't try to make you emotional too often"

that no remake and you know it you spoiled frenchy

Now go, enjoy it, this is the level of care Japan has for FF6

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you might need to get your self some more juvenile works because it shows you couldn't keep up with the story.

True but after the first couple of times I knew they only needed an excuse to free up a slot in the party for a new member. It's hard to take it too seriously after that.

why? i can go to the original and still give enix more money by pirating it than giving them internet bux.

>enix
Ah, the company responsible for FF going to shit

I liked it. I though Gau was pretty cool. I really liked how you needed to wait until the last like five seconds to save Shadow, kid me was surprised as shit when that happened.

I actually went to bed yesterday trying to think why despite loving FF so much I don't really like VI.

It's a mix of I don't really like how they told the story with like mini-groups like FF13, the only party I liked was probably the same as everyone with Edgar and Sabin. I don't like how people talk about "KEFKA WON", you know in FFVII...In order to summon Meteor you need the dark materia, but the ancients realized this is a terrible power so they bound it to the temple of Ancients which needs a very secret key to get in, then needs you to solve many puzzles and finally requires the person who retrevies the materia to be crushed by the temple itself (As the temple itself as Dark Materia) so it was kinda an impossible task, but Sephiroth let the party do it then uses his mastery of Jenova cells to influences Clouds to straight up hand it to him/do all the dirty work, great. In VI Kefka pretends to be a retard to get captured and then suddenly some triad stones control all power in the world and then 1 short airship ride later he just literally "WINS" by PUSHING STONES INCHES APART. It's just kinda like no wonder he "WON", the way to win was retarded. Also random battles in the game are really unfun because they are so numerous, just lemme be for 5 minutes please game.

I did like how there were all sorts of little "choices" you could make but otherwise I just feel negative about VI, it's got cool set pieces like Opera/World ending/fishing/Doomtrain departs but how it gets to each point I find is really abrupt and disjointed overall.

Actually based Lucabro.

enix was square soft. Most of the talent left now.

>Splatoon 2
>Pokemon Gen 4
>FFXV
Opinion fucking discarded. Send another nuke, and I say this as someone who enjoyed XV and DP.

>VII, X, XV, and XI best FFs
>CT
>Okami
>KH and MGS3 best KH and MGS respectively
>Suikoden 2
>TO
Nintendo stuff aside, it's a pretty solid list.

But Sephiroth still is a much better villain regardless.

>I don't like how people talk about "KEFKA WON"
He doesn't even really 'win' when you think about it.

>in the ending credits we inexplicably see the world restored to its natural beauty and lush forests, as if nothing happened
>all the towns still look the same on the inside (except for two towns)
>even the fucking auction house is still going on as normal during the supposed apocalypse, and has the same npc saying the samee shit
>even after ascending to godhood, kefka can easily be beaten by a bunch of puny mortals

Didn't read but you are wrong and should quit video games

The one winged angel. One wing to fly himself in circles... homosexual circles, I might add!

The best thing is that those puny mortals don't even go to train or obtain some extra special powers. They just waltz up to the supposed """"god"""" and behold, all problems are solved because they have the power of optimism now.

Right? Kefka was relatively as successful as Sephiroth at the time in the sense he created a doomsday scenario but somehow that translates to KEFKA MR WICKED SENSE OF HUMOR LIKE ME WON!

I mean like you said most of his shit is straight up undone by the end...If you compare this to FFVII which ends on a literal open note it's not nearly as poignant in anyway! In FF7 you wonder what the impact of Meteor was and 500 years later you see that life did go on but potentially that humans may have suffered extinction, only to hear the sound of laughing children faintly to let you know human life survived most likely, THOUGH MIDGAR SURE DIDN'T.

FFVII just literally elbow drops FFVI.

FF3 DS has been my favorite FF experience so far.

>Why do Final Fagasys fight so much?

Becasue the series has no substantial core gameplay and every other game slaps on a completely different system. There's basically no coherence to the series at all and all its entries have in common is that they are Square made RPGs that happen to be given a numbered title instead of a unique name.

6 is fucking terrible. An unself-aware childish fantasy story packed full of cliches, bland characters I couldn't give a single fuck about and gameplay that's broken beyond belief. My whole playthrough was nothing but an overwhelming feeling of secondhand embarrassment at what kind of manchild you would need to be to actually think it's good.

>no main character, the few that get any real development can be summed up in two sentences
>mediocre music where no tracks are particularly memorable
>the clown being the big bad is extraordinarily stupid and there's no real build up to it
>painfully retarded sequences like the opera scene
>the end of the world forces you to get all your party members again just to beat the game in the most tedious sequence imaginable
>the end of the world also undoes all the characterization of Celes
>shitty side characters
>kefka poisons a kingdom because ??? oh i guess they needed the mustache guy to have a reason to join you
>ultra simple combat system
>very little challenge
>poorly fleshed out ability and esper systems

I get it, it's the hipsters choice because FF7 is so le overrated and it's actually le best FF ever but there's a point where after 15 years of your bullshit people are gonna check out what you're talking about and they're gonna confront you about the flaws. It's pretty bad. Definitely one of Square's weaker games. It's largely forgotten about in Japan and held in very low regard.

Trying too hard kid

Holy shit you guys are legitimately based unironically. I'm so sick of IV hipsters bullshitting on VII for the sake of imagined internet cred.

see proof right here

?

The hilarious thing is I agree with almost all of his points totally.

FF6 is as deep as a puddle. The only reason people care is because its pretty.

>Unselfawared childish
said the emo fag who cries over aerithfhthfhfs deafth everytime.
You cam suplex a fucking ghost train! of course its self aware. You are just so autistic that you cant see people liking it for the humor that is their self aware gags. If it looks cool too then fine but fuck off with your edgy fagdom. you arent special and no one gives a fuck how deep you think you are.

>FF6 is as deep as a puddle. The only reason people care is because its pretty.
But it looks worse than most every other SNES RPG.

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graphic whores? really?

you cant be fucking unbiased because you grew up with just anime swordsman with retarded sword.

Modders actually managed to clean it up pretty damn well imo.

Still real rough around the edges at some places but I can look at it now.

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>intelligent
>video games
Shut the fuck up you old ass loser. You’re not smart because you played a video game. If anything you’re more stupid because of it. Don’t flaunt your hobby and act like you’re better for it. No one is impressed you played some unimportant not popular game you fucking contrarian. You’re the epitome of Yea Forums cynicism.

Shut the fuck up nigger

LMAO

FF6 is the game that made me realise that most JRPG fans are retarded monkeys. These are the same people that whine all the time about newer JRPGs and I just can’t help but feel like I’ve been meme’d into being like that too because "older fans have more experience". Fuck that, learn to form your own opinions.

>worse than most every other late SNES RPG.
FTFY. But yes, compare FFVI to Chrono Trigger, Tales of Phantasia, Star Ocean, or Seiken Densetsu 3 (if we stick to RPGs only) and all of them look much better.

Where can i play this? Did they fix Cyan as well?

I played both when they came out and judged them accordingly, 7 is the weaker game by far simply due to having a shit story with shit characters. It was still fun to play and had a good soundtrack, but it was a vastly worse experience as a whole. I don't give a shit what the fucking internet thinks of the games, because my taste is better than yours. I'm really just making this post because I think you and the OP are dumbasses, and I wanted you to know that, so thanks for reading.

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just pirate the gba version with the sound patch and color restoration patch

When will this picture be updated?

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>>worse than most every other late SNES RPG
FF6 came out in 1994, it WAS a late snes rpg.

That was my point. It's a late SNES RPG, but it's only "pretty" compared to games older than it, not its contemporaries.

based.

ff7 is boring overrated garbage. You idiots only dickride it because of your nostalgia.

>ff6 is boring overrated garbage. You idiots only dickride it because of your nostalgia.

Terra is mad cute though
I wish they adjusted the difficult for the PC/Mobile release

So what I'm posting is my own custom mod load out from here:
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=591798883
This link focuses on all the mods and mainly the thing that's supposed to make modding easier: Atma Weapon. But currently, AW only supports 4 specific mod load outs:
A World Reborn, Nostalgic, Hybrid and Classic.

You would think Classic would do the trick but it currently doesn't do enough to revert things to the SNES graphical style and the others are a mixed bag imo, some good some bad, you can research them and see what each do in the Presets and Comparison links.

My loadout is custom which AW is supposed to support but doesn't just yet so just download AW, install the Extra files only for easy modding and add what you want yourself if you want it custom. Idk what you mean by fixing Cyan though.

From where I'm standing now modded PC version has more pros over the GBA even with patches:

Graphically they both take a hit due to GBA screen crunch ratio, it really bothers me but of course GBA is more consistent here though modded PC doesn't bother me anymore outside of world map towns.

It's actually the music that makes GBA inferior to me. Even with patches the GBA bitrate for music is crushed to fuck, once you hear the static, EVEN WITH the music patch, you can't unhear it. And playing with headphones it's impossible not to hear it. PC's audio not only has good ass quality, it's also moddable.

Plus PC version fixes Cyan's Bushido to charge passively, I don't want to give that up if I don't have to.

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>Op has a problem of thinking anything that doesnt fallow the same tropes he gets from ff7 is shit.
But ff6 does follow the same tropes as ff7.

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>due to having a shit story with shit characters

The game's story is superior in every regard with the exceptions of how difficult it is to understand, which results in people disliking it out of confusion. Character wise even a 'minor' party member like Cid has more personality than VI's whole cast.

VI isn't awful. The customization is just slightly more awful than 9's skill system, the game isn't a gag quest like 5, the characters have patchy development at best, and the so called mini-groups like XIII don't all converge to the same inevitable destination but rather cascade off into the horizon or flat out stop.

It's not a bad game. It's polished, plays and sounds well, has a story that's easy to follow with a conclusion that's easy to follow. It's just a bit harder to play and with less gaming experimentation than its predecessors while also having a rather rushed pacing. Pacing being something that this series (yes, including the 13s but excluding X-2) have been okay at.

At least there's no real romance focus in VI. This series is awful about that.

I don't even like VII all that much, but it's unironically true. The "romance" of Locke and Celes for example consists of two short scenes with like three lines each, with Celes just saying "Locke..." over and over again. And it's not like it gets developed in their interactions with other characters, either. Gau gets 1 (one) short sequence of proper party interaction, while throwaway trash like Gogo don't get a single line. Pretty much nobody talks to each other after they join the party except for the interchangeable group "let's do it" once in a while. Sabin and Edgar are the only exception, and that's only because they were written by a different writer who knew something about character writing.

not all of them

>At least there's no real romance focus in VI. This series is awful about that.
You have Celes deciding to live or die over a guy she had talked to twice, but suddenly he's the love of her life. People whining about how Squall and Rinoa "comes out of nowhere" should've been apoplectic when playing FFVI.

It's throw away romance. I mean that it's given the exact amount of bare minimum screen time that it deserves.

>The predecessor follows the sequel
I hate this fucking board.

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The sucessor does it all better and polishes and improves on every aspect that matters.

6 is closer to 9 than it is 7 though.

Kefka is overrated

>But-but he destroyed half the world

Cool, but did he ever ruled Heaven and Hell?

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The emperor is an example of a character who had to be gimped intentionally powerwise in order for the party to actually win.

His feats aren't anywhere close to the level of strength you're faced with. Realistically your quest should have ended ages ago with the main characters dead in obscurity.

YUH bro I been fucking with FF since 2019 too bruh

Why does Yea Forums hate VI so much? Of all the shitty fandoms on this board your really gonna act VIfags are the ones shoving their retarded opinions and lists down everyones throats.

Every FFVII thread devolves into waifu autism and turbo-apologists making excuses for all it's flaws. Every Persona thread devolves into literal simpletons making a case for the best game in the series in the form of some dumb list like: x > y > z > x's characters > y's story > z's graphics.

There's like 1 VI thread a month and it's mostly Vifags arguing amongst themselves about which version is the best to play. God I fucking hate the people who browse this board

>Every FFVII thread devolves into waifu autism and turbo-apologists making excuses for all it's flaws
Unlike FF6-fags who gets mad when flaws are mentioned and goes with "must be a 7-fag"

Were you not on the internet for the previous decade? VI-fags dominated everything and were totally adamant that it, and not the other popular FF favorites for plebs/babies who couldn't appreciate a real old-school classic like it, was the obvious pinnacle of the series.

Now everyone has actually played it and realize that it's nothing special outside a few super impressive scenes and so they're rightfully taken to town.

Lets take a moment and enjoy how MAD a video game makes you. stay mad. You come here and sperg over a game made in 1994.

>His feats aren't anywhere close to the level of strength you're faced with.
To be fair, FF2's narrative does convey that very well given how for the entire game up until the very end you're losing really hard.
Blood swords aside, it's just that your party is hell bent on taking him down no matter what and are more tenacious than cockroaches, never mind the fact that half of the cast dies to him too on top of the entire world sans Fynn and that one tiny village in Mysidia is under the Empire's control.
You do win in the end, but a very narrow victory with massive costs on your side, and by that I don't mean a dead girlfried or two like the other games, most of your companions are dead, your adoptive brother is scarred by guilt for life and the entire planet has to recover from total domination AND a gaping, virulent butthole that leads straight to hell.

On the other hand, it's fun how Unlimited Saga completely reversed that idea and gave you an even more powerful emperor than FF2's Emps as a playable character on your side, and boy is it well conveyed in the gameplay.

Really liked Islanders lines in Unlimited. Or rather. The VA that did their delivery was pretty fucking great.
Question and a segue. Why the fuck did he come back to the world if the one that the game takes place in is the only one he can age in?

Unlike VII and other relevant FFs, there just genuinely isn't much to VI. It's a handful of set pieces loosely strung together to masquerade as a story, where nothing really happens and when it does it's really retarded. The only reason why Kefka succeeds, for example, is the fact that the dumbass protagonists just let him go - repeatedly - after defeating him in battle. He doesn't teleport or anything, they just let him walk away for reasons. It's the very definition of idiot plot - the whole plot happens only because every single character is too stupid to live.

>Why the fuck did he come back to the world
He was tired of living as an immortal, invincible being, mostly.
The other reason being that his home world was in grave danger and he felt compelled to do something about it.
Iskandar is actually a fairly chivalrous character despite being jaded, the ENG VA doesn't convey that at all since they made him a lot more smug than the original, but in the JP game he sounds almost paternal at times, when your party is at low health for instance he sounds really worried, when you're fighting the chaos ruler he is almost angry.

Would have liked him to be available in Mythe's route though, having him on the receiving end of the Blood Sword as a reenactment of FF2 would have been thematically very fitting.

recently broke through the beginning part and got to an interesting part where the party splits and you can play out their experiences. Cool idea

>Square Enix will be burned down by a crazed man in your lifetime

Wada is coming back?

Still get wowed how much young idiot me missed in that game. Anyhow can't wait for the localization of the SaGa(s) whenever that is.

SaGa's full of stealth lore and pretty subtle writing and references, Unlimited being both a fantasy retelling of the myth of Alexander the Great and also FF2 turned upside down is one of the best things in the writing because the game doesn't really give you any clue about the latter until you begin to pay attention to the particulars set up through multiple routes.

Scarlet Grace also has some funny FF2 reference which I hope make it through the localization, it's a game with lots of references to Kawazu's portfolio to begin with, you'll enjoy it a lot.

No it's just that FF6 is an extremely pleb game in a series that is already maximum casual. It's just embarrassing to see people care so much about claiming 6 is better than 7 when there are numerous objective measures by which it clearly isn't, like the fact that FF6's combat formulas are retarded meaning the stats are ridiculously unbalanced with MagicPower being extremely useful, speed and vigor being not worth it, and stamina being next to useless.

FF4 and FF5 are legitimately good games. FF4 was innovative and is full of soul (assuming you aren't playing a shitty remake), and FF5 is more polished and has the flexibility and customization dynamic that FF4 lacked.

FF6 on the other hand is great if you're only into the superficial stuff. It looks great on the surface-level but once you dig in you find the game is not robust or balanced at all and doesn't hold up well under scrutiny.

The fact that there are legitimately some things that FF6 did better than FF7, though, means that for all eternity you'll have a normalfag war between the two games.

The strictness of FF4's party was what made a lot of the dungeons and their random encounters so engaging. 5's job system was fun, but it came at the price of the really finely tuned random encounters that FF4 had.

>FF4 and FF5 are legitimately good games. FF4 was innovative
How did it innovate?

You are fucking retarded.

>Betrayal of Krondor for example came out a year before FF6 and had writing on par with actual literature
I don't know about that. Feist didn't actually write the game, it was just set in his universe.
>>WRPG has better writing than JRPG
>you don't say
This is not an unequivocally good thing.
JRPG writing (at the time) went for a more kinetic comic-book/manga style. JRPGs emphasized snappy dialog and you had sprites on the screen to act out dramatic scenes. This is perfect for a 90s JRPG where the game is oriented mostly around gameplay (grinding and exploration). The cutscenes are exciting and don't get much in the way of the gameplay.

WRPGs on the other hand tended towards being written more like a novel or a tabletop sourcebook. This can have a very weird effect on pacing for a videogame and WRPGs from the time had a reputation for having walls of text with mediocre writing that you had to slog through. With minimal ability to portray dramatic events on screen, the transition from gameplay to story could be jarring. You'd have to adjust your brain from engagement with the game, to a relaxed novel-reading mindset. In a JRPG, this transition from gameplay to cutscene was seamless.

If you compare the writing in each genre by the appropriate standards I would not say that WRPGs consistently have better writing. It's just more mature and written in a different style.

I haven't played ff6 but it can't be worse than final faggotry 7

>I don't get
brainlets have trouble getting things all the time

>It's really still the same seat-of-your-pants writing style that brought us FF4's moon.
Are you kidding? There's nothing at all wrong with the moon in FF4, writing-wise. It's foreshadowed for the whole game even.

>It's just more mature
Not really, it's just more grandiose and pretentious on average.
If you really think Ultima games with their outlandish pseudo olde english or the various IE games with their constant jokes (which bitter grognards still pretend isn't the same exact "reddit humour" they bitch about nowadays) are somehow mature I don't know what to tell you.

>I don't know about that. Feist didn't actually write the game, it was just set in his universe.
What are you talking about? The game wasn't written by Feist, no, but it was still very well-written, so much so that Feist later decided to novelize it himself.

>WRPGs from the time had a reputation for having walls of text with mediocre writing that you had to slog through.
What? WRPGs of that era had very little emphasis on story, apart from a few outliers like Betrayal at Krondor, and even that wasn't as story-heavy as jrpgs. I mean, the world of ruin in ff6 is regarded as groundbreaking, despite almost every wrpg from that era giving you access to most or even all of the game world right from the very start of the game.

What wrpgs from that era forced you to slog through walls of text? I certainly can't think of any.

>In a JRPG, this transition from gameplay to cutscene was seamless.
How so? Most wrpgs made after the 80's transition seamlessly from combat to 'cutscene', whereas Chrono Trigger is the only jrpg I can think of with seamless transition from combat to cutscene.

>How did it innovate?
FF4 introduced the Active-Time Battle system, used by 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and Chrono Trigger.
Furthermore, using a speed(agi) stat for a global unit-based turn order, where actions are taken (or at least queued) immediately after a decision being made, rather than doing everything in rounds or phases where you issue orders to the whole party at once, is a far more elegant system and was used by FFT and FF10.
>but I hate ATB
no one gives a shit. It was the defining feature of the Final Fantasy franchise for a whole decade. When FF4 came out, it's fast, dynamic battle system put it head and shoulders ahead of any of its competition at the time.

ff6 brave new world is the only way to play

>I mean, the world of ruin in ff6 is regarded as groundbreaking
By who exactly and for what reason?

>Furthermore, using a speed(agi) stat for a global unit-based turn order, where actions are taken (or at least queued) immediately after a decision being made, rather than doing everything in rounds or phases where you issue orders to the whole party at once, is a far more elegant system
How is that innovative? That's literally the system that D&D uses, the first RPG ever made.

>When FF4 came out, it's fast, dynamic battle system put it head and shoulders ahead of any of its competition at the time.
Fast? People are still spreading this false narrative? ATB is SLOWER than a traditional turn-based system. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands, and after they are executed, you have to wait again for them to fill before you can input new commands, over and over again.

Here is a random encounter in FF4
youtube.com/watch?v=oLgbqywWJcM

Here is a random encounter in Fallout
youtube.com/watch?v=RtN2fZhU2Ss

Despite your characters being massively overpowered, the random encounter in FF4 takes longer to complete than the random encounter in Fallout, which involves dozens of combatants with the ability to move around, so you'd think it take longer than FF4. And Fallout's combat system isn't even particularly fast, it's just that ATB is incredibly slow.

Betrayal at Krondor was written better than anything Feist managed to shit out in his lifetime

>By who exactly
Pretty much every gaming journalist and who people who post on gaming fora

gameinformer.com/2019/04/02/the-best-of-an-era-looking-back-on-final-fantasy-vi-after-25-years

>The second half is more freeform, allowing players to wander across the shattered landscape, rejoining old friends and gaining the strength to strike back. This pioneering approach meant that the narrative was largely player-driven in the second half, focusing on smaller character-centric episodes instead of a following a prescribed path with clear objectives. Though it differs in some ways, this formula is a part of the basic structure that open-world games would employ years later.

>wait for real? japan is fucked up sometimes

to be fair, that poll was only for Famistu readers

>Pretty much every gaming journalist and who people who post on gaming fora
>Gaming "journalists" and random casuals
Ah yes, western EOPs, many of which are literally hired pens, are truly trustworthy authorities on the matter.

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Gold Box D&D games literally had you open a printed book to read story text.
>>In a JRPG, this transition from gameplay to cutscene was seamless.
>How so?
You're walking around a city in the standard gameplay engine, initiating dialog with NPCs and such. And then you either talk to a specific NPC or hit a certain trigger tile and sprites start moving in a scripted manner and their lines show up in text bubbles. This is what I mean. Actually cutting away to FMV didn't start happening until the playstation era (with maybe one or two games using anime-style stills instead).

Meanwhile in a WRPG (say, Eye of the Beholder) you might be walking around exploring the dungeon for 2 hours and then suddenly you'll hit a tile, an NPC will appear in front if you with an accompanying dump of text describing how you encountered that NPC and what the NPC says.

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>Modern RPGs are generally better paced
lol

>Betrayal of Krondor for example came out a year before FF6 and had writing on par with actual literature.
>Westernfags actually believe this

Breath of Fire 1 as well.

>How is that innovative? That's literally the system that D&D uses, the first RPG ever made.
It's not though. D&D uses rounds. Every unit gets to move in each round. It's true that D&D didn't make you issue orders to everyone like round-based JRPGs did, but you still did not have a speed stat and you did not have a turn list that persisted outside of a single round unless there was spellcasting involved.

>ATB is SLOWER than a traditional turn-based system.
Not slower than a JRPG turn-based system. Also, you can tune the battle speed in Final Fantasy IV so showing a clip on youtube is not a reasonable comparison.
If I have time before the thread dies I'll do a more comprehensive analysis suffice to say that cherry-picking a few seconds from a game that game out SIX YEARS later is not in any way refuting my point.

>FF6 is considered the best in the series.
Only by Nostalgic Americans though(the same crowd hilariously enough also thinks this mediocre game comes even close to the masterpiece that was/is Chrono Trigger lmao).
Japs don't care about 6 that much.

>But 7 is much better paced.
You have to be joking.
The battles and the loading time alone make FF7 much much slower.

>It's not though. D&D uses rounds. Every unit gets to move in each round. It's true that D&D didn't make you issue orders to everyone like round-based JRPGs did, but you still did not have a speed stat

d20srd.org/srd/combat/initiative.htm

>At the start of a battle, each combatant makes an initiative check. An initiative check is a Dexterity check. Each character applies his or her Dexterity modifier to the roll. Characters act in order, counting down from highest result to lowest. In every round that follows, the characters act in the same order (unless a character takes an action that results in his or her initiative changing; see Special Initiative Actions).

>and you did not have a turn list that persisted outside of a single round unless there was spellcasting involved.
That much is true, yes. D&D used a round structure.

6 is very highly rated still IIRC it's something like.

5 > 10 >= 7 > 6

>get ff6 on ps1
>memory card gets corrupted and lose all my data
>get ff6 on my phone on emulator
>phone gets stolen
To this day I have not beat the game, I made it to the point where Kefka goes apeshit and your whole party gets separated. How far was I from finishing it? I plan to give it a try eventually though.

FF6 is not even the best Squaresoft game of 1994.
That's Live-A-Live.

Final Faggotry is the most overrated blandest series from Squaresoft ever yet faggots eat it up.

>my first gaming console was the N64

Fuck off, kid.

>This is one of the worst experiences I've had playing a game.
I don't understand why people have to use such extreme hyperbole here. You just start the conversation basically telling everyone that you're not here to actually discuss this.

D&D does not have a 'speed' stat. You do not have FFX style dynamic turn orders.

There are some TT games that have done it... but you have to be a real fucking man to play Exalted.

>Final Faggotry is the most overrated blandest series from Squaresoft ever yet faggots eat it up.

FF has also been going down in quality after FF10

Member playin FF7 on the NES? The good days...

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I think the main problem is that because there is too much character it just becomes too hard to make everyone participate in the main story equally
Character chemistry is one of the most underrated thing in JRPGs, it can make or break a game for me

Mega Man 2 is the most overrated game of all time.

CT vs FF6 is a retard comparison. I'm an FF6 detractor but CT is overrated as shit.
CT is more polished but is also much more babified. FF6 has more abilities, a greater variety of abilities, and greater customization options. In Chrono Trigger, for example, it is impossible to create a bad party. Every character has a balanced set of abilities and every party combination has a similar array of powerful moves to use, differing only by flavor. In FF6, you can easily make a party with a bunch of unprepared scrubs that get wrecked.

Chrono Trigger has nothing like Gau and nothing like Strago. FF6 has actual complexity with its equipment system where you have a wide variety of decisions to make about which items to give to which character. In CT each character just has maybe one or two weapon choices and then everyone has the same access to armor and relics. And, there are only 3 party members to worry about and there's no shield slot.

FF6 is not a great game but it's really cringe to see someone shit on it and then turn around and praise Chrono Trigger lol.

Based common sense user

>every other game slaps on a completely different system.
That only started to happen with the XIII series.

FF1-3 old-school turn-based
FF4-9 all of them ATB
FFX had its own system
That's it

The international version is pretty meh. The jap version with the original difficulty is way better.

>FF7fags are such retards they don't know how to use healing items

>"has the most bestest graphics on snes"
It literally doesn't
FF6 looks like complete fucking dogshit
The colors are Call of Duty-tier brown

Breath of Fire, Breath of Fire 2, Live-A-Live, Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, Earthbound, Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana, Secret of Evermore, Seiken Densetsu 3 etc. all look better than that pile of shit.

I'm still surprised that Chrono Trigger got the top spot and not a DQ game.
Some of that shit like Nier Automata is pure recency bias though.

>In FF6, you can easily make a party with a bunch of unprepared scrubs that get wrecked.

i feel like we played a different game.

hah no but I get it. MM2 gets a lot of praise but not nearly as much as FF7 and Ocarina (at least FF7 fags usually stay in FF threads while Ocarina fags bring their shit everywhere). Really though, MM2 deserves a lot of its praise. It has a great gameplay premise, excellent level design and solid execution. It's flaws are largely nitpicks the worst one probably that it's too easy which is debatable as difficulty tuning doesn't always have an obvious optimum (MM2 might not have been as popular as it was if it had been too hard. Better to increase difficulty after you've built an audience that knows your game than alienate people right off the bat)

I'd argue KH2FM is better than KH1FM
At least gameplay wise
Both have their pros and cons though

Shame the rest of the series sucks

Enix made better games than Squaresoft overall
DQ >>> FF
Soul Blazer trilogy >>> Mana games

>enix was square soft
Are you stupid?

Please understand I am comparing to chrono trigger and by no means am I suggesting that FF6 is in any way a difficult game.

But, the fact is that you can create a party of just a level 32 Strago with no lores and go wander the Tyranosaur forest. He will get wrecked immediately by the first random encounter. Chrono Trigger basically does not let you do anything like that. You might be able to cherry-pick a few situations if you try really hard, but it's nothing close to the freedom you have in FF6. That is the point.

I like the story and Kefka but characters are pretty meh combat is boring too ended up dropping it. FFX and FFIX are the only FF games i played through the end.

Heal All does more healing across the team, a single potion does less to a single target you fucking nigger. All items haven't been unlocked yet, so I'm guessing you haven't completed it either.

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>Becasue the series has no substantial core gameplay
retard meme

gaudy

Nigger FFVI looks worse than fucking Breath of Fire 1. BREATH OF FUCKING FIRE 1 which came out a year earlier.
Other games that look better than FF6 that came around the same time or earlier.

Illusion of Gaia
Earthbound/Mother 2
Breath of Fire 2
Secret of Mana

FF6 still uses chibi sprites and static sprites with no animations for the enemies ffs. Even Breath of Fire 1 had animated enemies.

This might be the best FF6 has actually ever looked. Shitty UI aside.
I'm guessing the enemies still aren't animated though?

>Nigger FFVI looks worse than fucking Breath of Fire 1.
No.
>But muh animated enemy sprites
Doesn't matter when they look like dogshit.
You might have had a case for BoF2, which is indeed a good looking game, but even there it's pretty questionable.

>Thinking games are in anyway close to real literature
>thinking that an 'award winning fantasy author' is anyway a respectable writer of high fiction, especially if he would novelise a fucking video-game
>he doesn't even know where the line 'he kissed me under the Moorish wall' comes from
>intelligent
are you intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humour?
shut up

also, retards ITT falling for a copy-pasta

>You have Celes deciding to live or die over a guy she had talked to twice
what? Are you talking about Cid? It's implied that Cid had been a father figure for her for quite some time.

Yeah I think I agree it just needs a little bit more tweaking of the colors here and there. The modders really worked some magic.

I do think they did a pretty nice job with the enemy sprites, especially after you de-blur them but sadly nah that's beyond the scope of mods to animate the enemies. That does remind me of the Arte Piazza Romancing Saga 2 remaster which was the look I was trying to get with the mods available for FF6.

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>ATB is SLOWER than a traditional turn-based system. In a normal turn-based game, you input your commands and they are executed. But in an ATB game, you first have to wait for the characters' ATB bars to slowly fill before you can input commands
Up the speed casual.
Play CT at the highest speed setting and tell me that's slow.

Found the FF6 nostalgiafag.
Chrono Trigger is not overrated. It's objectively the best game in this whole overrated ass genre.

I recognized the pasta, just responding to subsequent discussion

The hard mode in the International Version is the Japanese version.
The difficulty is not the issue with it. It's just plain inferior to 1 and 3.

Nah.
MM2 get so much praise cunts try to say that MM2 was the first game in the franchise.

Imagine Ocarina of Time without A Link to the Past coming along and correcting the things Zelda 2 fucked up.

So?
It's not that hard to use a potion on each character.
Just buy potions dumbass.

Artepiazza did a pretty good job on that, RS3 is looking even better, though I'm a bit disappointed they're changing some of the battle visual effects this time around.

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If you want a difficulty in CT then up the speed to max and don't overlevel you casual.
Either way difficulty is so overrated in JRPG's. It's a fucking menu simulator genre.

>Betrayal of Krondor for example came out a year before FF6 and had writing on par with actual literature.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, wrpgfags actually believe this shit!

Spoken like a true casual.

>No.
Yes

>Doesn't matter when they look like dogshit.
They look way better than Nomura's abominations.
BoF series has some of the coolest monster designs I've seen in the genre.

BoF2 destroys FF6 graphically. Don't even go there.
Holy shit.

Fuck sake even Squaresoft's own Live-A-Live which came out the same year as FF6 looked better than FF6 despite being on a smaller cart.
No fucking brown and grey everywhere like in FF6 for one.

It does feel like I'm looking at the game through improper crt shaders...feels like Octopath Traveler a bit.
Still would take it over the original though.

Oh please. If you want to be hardcore then play actual hardcore games like Arcade games and Shmups.
Turn-based JRPG's were never and will never be hardcore.

>Gold Box D&D games literally had you open a printed book to read story text.
Yes, which is why I specifically said "most wrpgs made after the 80's". The Gold Box engine was made in the 80's, and a bulk of the story was written in the manual because of space limitations. The later D&D RPGs abandoned that.

>Meanwhile in a WRPG (say, Eye of the Beholder) you might be walking around exploring the dungeon for 2 hours and then suddenly you'll hit a tile, an NPC will appear in front if you with an accompanying dump of text describing how you encountered that NPC and what the NPC says.
I don't know that game you played, but that doesn't happen in Eye of the Beholder, except maybe one or two isolated instances. When you meet an NPC, there is no "accompanying dump of text describing how you encountered that NPC", it's just dialogue.

Eye of the Beholder has places where there are NPCs and they are visible from a distance, they don't magically 'appear in front of you' like you seem to be describing.

Besides, why are you comparing jrpgs to first-person dungeon crawlers with extremely minimal npc interaction? Why not compare jrpgs to something like Ultima 6, which uses a top-down view just like snes jrpgs?

>You're walking around a city in the standard gameplay engine, initiating dialog with NPCs and such. And then you either talk to a specific NPC or hit a certain trigger tile and sprites start moving in a scripted manner and their lines show up in text bubbles. This is what I mean.
That's not what I was referring to though. I was talking about the disconnect between cutscene and combat. Take FF6 for example. Not only does combat take place on a separate screen, but human enemies are depicted as being as tall as skyscrapers during combat, while player characters are still depicted in their stylized, cartoony proportions. It's very jarring.

>3D objects with sprites
This looks ugly as shit

>Yes
No
>They look way better than Nomura's abominations.
Hot opinion, and I don't even like Nomura.
>even Squaresoft's own Live-A-Live which came out the same year as FF6 looked better than FF6
You must be joking, LaL only looks decent in battles and even there it doesn't reach FF6 level.

Bravely and Megaten come close

I generally dislike jrpg's but your right, even by FF standard, its a slog. Especially that fucking beginning. I only really enjoy the music, that shit is god tier

I play those, as I play fighting games regularly since over two decades.
You're a casual, one of those people who have never gone beyond the very basics and pretend turn based games aren't hard because you can follow guides, the fact that you pretend CT, perhaps the most entry level RPG there is, is the peak of anything, let alone difficulty is a horrible red alert.

Final fantasy games are all bad.

Yes.
I'm sorry but it's the truth. All of the FF games on SNES look so fucking goddamn ugly.

>LaL only looks decent in battles
If anything it looks the worst there. Even that game doesn't have animations for the enemies(fucking Squaresoft lazy cunts)
The environments look really good with plenty of variety and really good color.

Also it has very nice little details such as your menu cursor being Sundown's gun for example which you don't find in FF6.
I'd point out all the different fonts too but that actually was something only the fan-translation did(still awesome though)

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>Up the speed casual.
You're the casual, considering you don't even seem to know how the battle speed setting works. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn't make the ATB bars fill up faster, it only alters the delay enemies get between filling up their ATB and acting. That delay acts as a way to compensate for the time you spend accessing menus to select actions, which is something the enemy AI does not have to do.

Even if you set it to maximum, the shortening of that delay only increases the pace of battle very slightly, so it does little to solve the issue of ATB combat being painfully slow.

Terra is pure, though. I cant lewd her. Celes, on the other hand

>Anyone who rates this game above FF7 is clearly a contrarian hipster
Why? 6 and 7 are literally the same game except for setting.

Isn't Kefka supposed to be the Ubermensch, but with the Schopenhauer mindset? If you tie it in with the rest of the series (mainly the final bosses in 1-5, and shit like the Cloud of Darkness in 3) you could say that he was corrupted by darkness/the void and that the experiments involved that somehow.

You're insane if you think those games are hardcore.

LMAO when you want to overcome shit in a JRPG your only option is to actually grind most of the time.

Get the fuck out with this shit. You played fighting games but not at a pro level, you played them casually with another friend just like most people.

Now I can see you saying an Action JRPG like KH2FM in Level 1 Critical being hard...but turn-based shit?
Fuck outta here, they're not hard they're just tedious grindfest story games.

>I'm sorry but it's the truth. All of the FF games on SNES look so fucking goddamn ugly.
Look, I despise FF as much as the next guy, but this is just shitposting.
>If anything it looks the worst there
And here's when I stop taking you seriously, if you want to play hipster at least do it right.

>If you compare the writing in each genre by the appropriate standards I would not say that WRPGs consistently have better writing.

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Ff5 has superior gameplay

>motb
>no critical acclaim.

On top of that you're using a rather flavourless translation.

>LMAO when you want to overcome shit in a JRPG your only option is to actually grind most of the time.
There's plenty of JRPGs where grinding is impossible, if not counterproductive, see the dept. heaven games, SaGa and whatever else, the fact that you don't know this very basic fact only points out how casual you are.
Didn't you just come out with justifying CT being easy by telling people not to grind either way? Talk about massive double standards.
>You played fighting games but not at a pro level
You don't know that.
You also didn't get world record scores as far as I'm concerned, but even if you had such achievements it would mean nothing when you fail at basic arguments, if anything it makes you and your supposed "hardcore gaems" look worse.
>Now I can see you saying an Action JRPG like KH2FM in Level 1 Critical being hard
>KH
>Hard
And I'm still very pleased that you use the no grind argument when it suits you even here.

The amount of money XIV made amazes me.
Then again, someone has to fund Nomuras vanity projects. How much of Nier Autotomato's money do you think goes into FFVIIR?

>motb
>no critical acclaim.

metacritic.com/game/game-boy-advance/final-fantasy-vi-advance

>"universal acclaim"

metacritic.com/game/pc/neverwinter-nights-2-mask-of-the-betrayer

>"generally favorable reviews"

I tried the final fantasy 10 battle parody for the time being.
youtu.be/qxJpVTGvN10

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>On top of that you're using a rather flavourless translation.
Most FF6 fans seem to consider the SNES translation to be superior.

>NWN2
>Fucking MoTB
>No critical acclaim
It's one of the most disgustingly overrated RPGs ever made, and if you pretend Myrkul's tripe is acceptable you have the most garbage of tastes, the only well written part of that garbage campaign was the Skein segment, and they still managed to make Gann's reunion with his mother one of the most underwhelming and poorly delivered moments in the game.

>the fact that you don't know this very basic fact

You always have to try to hard to point out exceptions that you ignore how much of the genre it does apply to.

>You don't know that.

We basically do. There's no way you've played fighters on that level, it's obvious by how you've worded everything, on top of your opinions. You don't understand what there is to understand.

>the no grind argument

KH2:FM is famously designed to specifically be beatable on level 1 on critical mode, and this is considered one of the greatest designed modes of all action titles.

You straight up have more control with ATB than you do with regular turn based.
With regular turn based the one who attacks first is always determined on who of your party members has the highest speed. Fuck that boring repetitive shit.
The bosses are also much more fun with the ATB system.

Not to mention that depending on the game your complaint might not be valid at all.
Like for example in CT where you have no random encounters and there's not too many battles like in a lot of other RPG's that complaint doesn't hold water. You also can always skip encounters you don't wanna fight of course.

>Why not compare jrpgs to something like Ultima 6, which uses a top-down view just like snes jrpgs
It was just the first wrpg that came to mind from the era. But Ultima 6 also uses a narrated text-log with a GM feel, not like JRPG text bubbles in a comic book (where the sprites on the screen in place of the comic frames). Ultima doesn't necessarily have a "wall of text" issue but the flow of the dialog is still much different.
>You see the noble ruler of Britannia
>"Good evening, what wouldst thou speak of?"
Events will usually be described rather than portrayed by sprites.
>"Well! How rude!"
>She turns up her nose and leaves.
But then the sprite is still there on the screen and you can re-initiate dialog. If you were to offend a character in a JRPG, they might say "How rude!" and then bounce away and slam the door of their house (and might be able to re-initiate dialog after changing screens or something when the sprites reset)
>I was talking about the disconnect between cutscene and combat.
I wasn't, and you were responding to me. Yes, there's a disconnect between combat and overworld. That's really a whole separate issue that requires examining the focus and emphasis of combat in each style of game.

>You straight up have more control with ATB than you do with regular turn based.
How do you have more control? You have LESS control since you are punished for spending time choosing actions, because enemies can continue to attack you while you do.

>With regular turn based the one who attacks first is always determined on who of your party members has the highest speed.
You do realize plenty of turn-based games let you 'pass' or 'delay' your turn? Have you ever even played a turn-based game in your life besides a handful of jrpgs?

No it's not shitposting. I genuinely think the FF games on SNES look fucking hideous.
FF8 and FF9 have aged better despite their shitty framerates.

LaL's battle scenes looking the best? Are you joking? They were glorified grids with very simple backgrounds and non-animated enemies. Only good thing in them were the animated party members but that's it.

I was never taking your seriously at all because you must have legitimately bad eyesight if you think the FF games on SNES looked good graphically let alone better than LaL or BoF1/2.

Your reply proves the point you don't know about playing efficiently, especially during a boss battle. Waste 3 turns to individually heal for lower numbers, or a simple Heal All spell. Go back to Fortnite.

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that image is retarded and proves nothing. If you want to really argue Yea Forums shit at least pretend like you have the most basic understanding of how to do criticism.

5-6-7 was the peak. Each entry had it's own priorities and strengths complimented by crazy creativity and goofiness. The games were easy to blaze through if you knew them but chock full of weird scenarios and charming diversions.

yeah it's just a matter of taste. Do you like gaudy and ostentatious visuals that scream "look at me I'm good graphics!!" or do you like graphics with taste and subtlety but still great attention to detail.
If you like flashy gaudy shit then you'll hate SNES final fantasy games. If you're a patrician of good taste you'll appreciate them.

>You always have to try to hard to point out exceptions that you ignore how much of the genre it does apply to.
The vast majority of all games in all genres are easy and made for a casual audience, that's not really a good argument to push and only shows how narrow minded you are.
SHMUPs aren't really any different, not to mention you grind in those too and the real difficulty only comes in scoring at high difficulty levels on multiple loops, which is just bragging rights on the same level as completing an RPG at the lowest possible levels or speedrunning.
>There's no way you've played fighters on that level
You don't know, and the same goes for you, not to mention that again, none of these presumed achievements matter in this conversation, as much as you'd like them to.
>KH2:FM is famously designed to specifically be beatable on level 1 on critical mode
That's because KH is an extremely shallow game, both as an action game and an "RPG".
What does that have to do with RPGs either way?

>4-5-6-7
fixed

Square's art was all over the place and LaL is a good example, being an early instance of a game jam. People just made shit for it and sometimes it was beautiful and other times it looked like a slightly prettier NES game.

6 was the only SNES FF to look pretty good and it (and Mana 3) replied heavily on samey color palletes to get those details in.

Every single turn based JRPG is easy. Every single one.
I don't care if grinding is bad in the SaGa games. They still don't require any reflex or skill whatsoever.
Once you understand the system the game is easy as shit no matter how esoteric it is because it doesn't require any actual skill.

2FM is harder than some turn-based shit lmao. Even fucking regular ass Critical is harder.
Level 1 is an actual official mode designed by the developers not some arbitrary "muh low level run" like autistic speedrunners do. It's even designed so that you can do decent damage at different points of the game but you still receive as much damage as you would in Level 1.

It actually requires skill to guard attacks, dash at the right time, parry attacks well, extremely fast menu navigation skills when you wanna use something you don't have in your shortcuts(such as going into Drive Form or using summons etc. when you're up against hard bosses like Organization XIII Data Battles) all on top of constantly watching out for what the enemy/boss will do next.
The skill ceiling is much higher, give me a fucking break.

>4
Not before the 3D version. Superfami 4 is easily the worst FF before 8.
>Lacks the brevity of 1 and 2.
>Worse writing than 2 and 3 despite narrative focus.
>Designs gameplay around story which in turn is designed around gameplay, so you're strung along with your party rotating into whatever it currently needs to be, making most of the adventure a bore with no real options (strengths of 1-3 and 5).
>Game balance is piss easy even before EasyType.
It's a lesser DQ4 with no outstanding elements to hold it up. Not awful so much as unremarkable. All the entries surrounding it have strengths to prop up the shaky foundation.

3D 4 is pretty good, though. Much better balance and better writing.

Nostalgia for Ted Woolsey.

>FF8 and FF9 have aged better
No they haven't, not one bit, especially not FF8 which is the worst looking of the PS games.
>They were glorified grids with very simple backgrounds and non-animated enemies.
Still better than the NES tier overworld.
>you must have legitimately bad eyesight if you think the FF games on SNES looked good graphically let alone better than LaL or BoF1/2.
Nobody gave a fuck about LaL even in japan, the game was visually mediocre for the time let alone mediocre to play, and of the games you mentioned only BoF2 can compete with FFVI in terms of visuals, not to mention that even there it fails hard compared to FFVI when it comes to things like battle effects.

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>not to mention that even there it fails hard compared to FFVI when it comes to things like battle effects.
lolwut. The dragon summons/transformations in BoF2 (or BoF1, for that matter) alone are more dynamic and better animated than anything in FF6.

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>They still don't require any reflex or skill whatsoever.
Congratulations on being not only a massive retard but a mouthbreather that talks about games he never played.
>Once you understand the system the game is easy as shit no matter how esoteric it is
Same shit for action based games, no matter how hard you try to pretend it isn't.
>Level 1 is an actual official mode designed by the developers not some arbitrary "muh low level run" like autistic speedrunners do
Which means it's by design inferior since there's functionally no limit to self imposed challenges, and again, critical mode is piss easy because KH is a kid's game at its core, nobody pretends No Future mode in LoM is hard, why do you have to pretend KH2 is any different?
>It actually requires skill to guard attacks, dash at the right time, parry attacks well
Same amount of skills it requires to understand turn based gameplay, one is muscle memory, the other is planning and hard math.
KH2FM on Critical isn't harder than your average Nethack run, if anything it's a lot easier because you're not at the mercy of RNG.

Again, play more games, and don't talk about games you never even played once.

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wrong 4 is great
3D version is good too but not as good as the original overall.
>Lacks the brevity of 1 and 2.
Wrong, you're probably confused about this because you think the voice-acted 3D version is canonical.
FF4 is easily the shortest SNES Final Fantasy game with a
>Designs gameplay around story which in turn is designed around gameplay, so you're strung along with your party rotating into whatever it currently needs to be, making most of the adventure a bore with no real options (strengths of 1-3 and 5).
Invalid criticism, presumes that the only interesting part of gameplay is building your party, which is a stupid perspective to take. You fail at logic anyway because you admit its built around the gameplay.
For example, you have to fight The Magus Sisters with Tellah as your only caster, who can't pierce a wall, leaving you a variety of ways to approach the fight. You have to make decisions about target selection, whether to try bouncing spells or just keep tellah for healing, etc.
You have to fight the Calbrena (the 8 dolls) with no AoE casters at all. This is despite the fact that all of those mechanics and abilities had been introduced already.
And for the final stretch of the game you have a very balanced 5-character party, which can be reconfigured somewhat using equipment (equipment stat mods matter far more in FF4 than FF5).
>Game balance is piss easy even before EasyType.
Simply wrong. Game is extremely well balanced if you play at a normal pace and don't stop to grind, in part because of that you can't customize your party. The game presents a sequence of encounters escalating in both challenge and complexity. You start as 2 level 10 fighters that steamroll everything in seconds, and end up with a balanced party against one of the best ATB final boss fights in the entire series (Zeromus), assuming appropriate level.

Nah man. You’re close, but my personal peak was 6-7-8

>You do realize plenty of turn-based games let you 'pass' or 'delay' your turn?
That's a band-aid not a solution.
It doesn't make the battles any faster. You still see their animations(like for example if you set the rest of your party in defense mode so that you have shorter animations), it's still slower.

With ATB you can just cast a high level spell at every encounter with whichever character you want and you finish the battle in one single action/turn.

Honestly there's probably some turn-based games out there who implemented shit differently but most of the ones I've played it's always the same "speed determines who of your party members goes first" which gets very old fast. God help you if your white mage goes first and she has shit offensive spells.

>FF7 nigger telling anyone to go back to Fortnite
FF7 was 90s Fortnite. You do realize that?

Other than the lack of customization and canonical english version, which is an insufficient criticism to keep it from being a great game, the biggest complaint you can make about FF4 is probably the slow walk speed and old UI that requires you to switch screens to see things like stat modifications on items (and straight-up doesn't explain how shit like elemental resistance works and what items have it). And these are all relatively minor details, some of which (eg walk speed) easily fixed by rom patches in present day.

>IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 2 COLORS IN SCREEN IT'S GAUDY !!!

Is that webm supposed to be a counter-example? It looks like a turn-based jrpg with some sort of slot machine/QTE gimmick, i.e. a real-time element

You do realize that only UNDERMINES your own argument?

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If KH is a shallow game than your turn based shit is completely flat and there's no water in them whatsoever.

Shut the fuck up you retarded nigger you don't know what the fuck you're even talking about.
I doubt you even watch high level play videos of the games let alone play them.

Don't mind me, just posting the best Final Fantasy.

Attached: 611352-ffx.jpg (353x500, 26K)

>REFLEXES DON'T COUNT WHEN I SAY SO
But this, this is the epithome of skillful and challenging gameplay.

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>That's a band-aid not a solution.
Bandaid for what? Those turn-based games existed before ATB, or even the first Final Fantasy game was even made. What are you even talking about?

>It doesn't make the battles any faster.
It doesn't come at the cost of anything. You just press a button to delay their turn.

Besides, we've already established that ATB is slower than a normal turn-based game: Why do you continue being in denial about this?

Celes is one of the most poorly written characters this side of FFVIII. She's got all the depth of a skidmark and all the potential drama involved in her past and upbringing is never utilized. She simply does what the plot commands, pines for Locke because the story says so. And when we finally get a glimpse into her presumably fucked up upbringing in the WoR, it turns it to be pretty tame and peaceful, down to her having a kind old man she calls grandpa creating death soldiers for the empire. She could have served as a vibrant contrast to Terra considering their similar upbringing, used to flesh both characters out, but instead she's basically the same character - an emotionless, unrealistic bump on a log.

>They still don't require any reflex or skill whatsoever.
Stop being a dumbass faggot turn-based RPGs are about making good decisions and never about "reflex or skill." Some are better than others and that can be debated, certainly most JRPGs are tuned to be very forgiving, but you're just shooting yourself in the balls before the discussion even starts with an assertion this retarded.

I don't even like Kingdom Hearts whereas I like turn-based games, so I don't know what you're arguing against.

I'm just saying that if you have to point to QTEs and clunky real-time gimmicks as a positive of a turn-based game, that only suggests the opposite: that turn-based combat is shallow and unengaging, hence why you need to point to a gimmick as a positive.

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>so I don't know what you're arguing against.
Not my fault if you can't follow a simple chain of replies and yet still feel the need to make retarded assertions and play semantics on your delusions.
Go take a walk outside, your brain needs some oxygen.

>Square's art was all over the place and LaL is a good example
Each chapter was separate and the art was very well designed for the movie genres they were parodying.

I don't see how it's all over the place when all of the chapters are clearly separated from each-other.

I really disagree with FF6 looking good.
BoF2 used the same kinda cart FF6 used and had just as much of that "detail" FF6 fans speak off with none of the shitty dull colors. It also had much better battle sprites but that goes without saying.

As for Seiken Densetsu 3, great looking game but imo not quite as good looking as Chrono overall.
Monster designs lack personality. The party member sprites are also not as memorable.

I would have to say CT and Super Mario RPG have aged the best graphically from the 16 bit era Squaresoft games.

>Terra, ostensibly the protagonist
Yeah , stopped reading right there

he's right, a good turn-based game should be about making decisions that have consequences. It should be about managing risk and resources, and making tactical decisions. In some cases it can be straight-up puzzles but in most combat situations it's about responding to changing conditions and updating your strategy based on how the RNG has treated you and what the AI has done.

Sensible quads of truth

All FF games are substandard RPGs barring maybe one or two of them, unironically maybe 1 and something else. Even then, there's more compelling options pretty readily available in any given year an FF was released.

>FF8 which is the worst looking of the PS games.
I stopped reading here.
FF8 shits on FF7's graphics. This is not even an opinion, this is a universally accepted fact.

Based.

Lmao, nice headcanon. When is it ever indicated that Kefka hates the empire or is spiteful towards them? If anything he just used them to get power and is ambivalent to them as an organization. In fact, I'm betting he enjoyed his service to the empire because he got to torture people and commit genocide every now and then.

He is a shitty one note villain, and his motivation is "more power". That's it. His backstory is vague and unsatisfying, not to mention poorly delivered, and does not serve to add any depth to his craziness.

>still spamming that emulator glitch meme video
LMAO stupid nigger. Thanks for confirming you know jackshit.

>turn-based RPGs are about making good decisions and never about "reflex or skill."
Thank you for confirming that turn based RPG's are easy.

>He is a shitty one note villain, and his motivation is "more power".
Makes sense since he's a mindbroken shell of a man, what other motivation should he have for his already established role?
Seems to me you have problems with what he is rather than how he's written, but that's a matter of tastes rather than the quality of writing.

>Coping this hard
Don't tell me you're KH-Kun, even Barry doesn't come to this place anymore.

It's not an emulator glitch. Cope.

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>shitty dull colors
I vastly VASTLY prefer the palette of FF6 to bof2. BoF2 looks like generic anime to me, even if the art is quite vivid and distinctive. What you call "dull" I call "tasteful" as FF6 really does use wide range of colors to express a wide variety of settings and effects, from the icy mining town of Narshe, to the green fields of the world of balance; from the rainy slums of Zozo to the grey steel magitek factory. The subtle dark shade of green for the phantom forest, the more vivid greens on the mountainsides, and then everything being more brown and desolate in the World of Ruin.

Sorry but if you're trying to criticize FF6 by attacking its color choices you really have shit taste.

>Wrong, you're probably confused about this because you think the voice-acted 3D version is canonical.
No, I'm specifically talking about the SFC version. It's longer than 1 and 2 on Famicom.
>FF4 is easily the shortest SNES Final Fantasy game
I know, that wasn't my point.
>presumes that the only interesting part of gameplay is building your party
What the fuck are you talking about?
>You fail at logic anyway because you admit its built around the gameplay. For example...
I'm gonna explain this slow for you.
It's a problem of cyclical compromise. The gameplay compromises for the story which then etc. Characters swap in and out repeatedly based on both, which means you end up with really shitty story beats like nonstop sacrifices that would make 2 blush, party compositions you get very little time to get a feel for, and way less in terms of actual options compared to its predecessors and successor. It's not braindead, but the developers are basically shoving answers in your face. The game also makes itself much easier to overcome with simple tactics than those games because it knows it's constantly throwing different shit at you. If the game sacrificed on gameplay but had stronger writing (6), or ignored the writing for a better gameplay experience (5), or even decided to be a bit stingy with who you can use, where and when in order to incentivize more complex, meaningful encounters (Tactics), I'd think that's fine. Instead it's sitting right in the middle, failing to be strong anywhere and making each element worse in the process.

I get you're in the mindset that anything that isn't how you feel is not "objective," but from my perspective the game has a snore of a story, easy battles, and very little customization for replay value. It's just not very good. Shame too, Rydia and Cecil are probably the first well written characters in the series.

>muh KH-kun
And there we have it.
No argument, never has played the games he's talking about yet spams meme videos and buzzwords from months ago.

I'm sorry that you can't prove that turn based rpg's are difficult.

So you are KH-Kun, I should have known.

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You should try playing the games and forming your own opinions rather than just parroting dumb shit from others.

>KHfags still pissing themselves over how a good combat system alone doesn't make your game good.
I like Lingering Will, but fuck 90% of KH2's content.

>That hud
Who do you think you're fooling you idiot?
That's a stretched 16:9 hud you get when you emulate the game.

You can't pull this shit in actual hardware because the revenge counter is not glitched in the actual game.

Get a life holy crap.

>I'm sorry that you can't prove that turn based rpg's are difficult.
The fact that you have never beaten one is persuasive evidence.

Retard.
Everyone here knows you're one XV-kun.
You're spamming the same webm's you used to spam in KH3 threads.

Regardless KH3 and FFXV are both piles of shit.

>I'm to dumb to understand simple English words
You're not really doing very well for yourself here especially since the guy arguing with you insists on arguing-by-webm.

>He's making fun of my game
>So I'll try insulting his back
C'mon user, why does everything have to be so black and white

I'm not Barry though, nice try, I loathe both franchises.

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It doesn't, because I thought KH1 was fun if a little sloppy. 2's enemy and level design is atrocious. People only bang on about FM because they added a few worthwhile things that take advantage of the wonderful combat system, but most of the content is awful.

How is KH's content any worse than most JRPG's out there(keep in mind that if you're referring to the story and the amount of cutscenes there's a lot of JRPG's out there just as bad as KH in that regard)?

And we were talking about gameplay and difficulty here specifically.
KH2FM on Level 1 Critical takes skill.
Turn-based RPG's don't because you're glorified menu simulators. Period.

The appeal of turn based JRPG and their gameplay was never the difficulty. The appeal was that it was comfort food gaming and didn't require much skill to play. The story and the worlds were the most interesting parts.

Of course some people are dumb and think that turn-based games require a high IQ to play.

>FFXV is a pile of shi-

Attached: God Tier FFXV Combat.webm (700x392, 2.89M)

Oh I've beaten plenty of them.
Easy ass genre.

Oh boy here we go again

Attached: 1561989872858.jpg (640x640, 33K)

Only complaint i have on 6 is the beginning. I get it that they want more character progression and they split the party in to 3. To me its just tedious as all hell, you finally get your party to a decent level and equipment and boom, end of their chapter, now you are weak as fuck again and you have to level and gear up again.

Its not fun. That is the main reason i wont pick it up again. Oh yea, and its fucking stupid to fight about which is better 6 or 7. Both are great with some flaws, deal with it

You literally said they don't require reflex or skill.
That makes them easy games.

Is that supposed to look good? The fact that they defeated that enemy with ease despite just standing around for most of the encounter speaks volumes about how braindead FFXV's combat is.

>Turn-based RPG's don't because you're glorified menu simulators. Period.
>Chess doesn't take skill
You wouldn't last one floor in your average roguelike, don't kid yourself KH-Kun.

You loathe Final Fantasy?
Then why are you in this thread?

I have no idea what the thread is about by now. Seems like shitflinging in every direction, my tastes > your tastes, very little constructive discussion

God I can't wait for this, I wish my Japanese was better so I could play the original SFC game right away
How do you feel about the English translation of Romancing SaGa 3 that exists now?

>Holding O
>half the webm is a cinematic attack

and?

>FFXV's combat is braindea-

Attached: Kingdom Hearts 3 vs FFXV Combat.webm (640x720, 2.97M)

>2's enemy design is atrocious.
Hello retard.
I agree with the level design being bad, well if you can call it level design that is because it's just a couple of battle arenas stringed together...but the enemy design was very very good.

Both KH1 and 2 have their pros and cons though.

Because it's a bait thread with a WRPG-Kun copypasta that was bound to have something interesting to look at.

well OP is an FF6 hate pasta.

I've played them. To date, nothing gets me through 7, and it's the only one I haven't taken to the end at least.
And all I have taken get outrun, usually by games out before their release, because FF is mostly just a brand name by the time they get into 6 and up, where the gameplay melts into "every character does everything" until 9 where we decide to jump to static character classes again and then veer right back off of it.

They're not amazing games. Their writing isn't amazing. Their worlds aren't unique. The gameplay is usually just very watered down RPG mechanics.
What's so great about them?

Do I need to break each one down individually by what I perceive as its flaws? All I was saying to the OP is that he's wrong to expect high accolades from FF.

Looks lame, slow and boring.

>How is KH's content any worse
The worst kind of defense. No, Jimmy, "Todd also jumped off a bridge" doesn't matter.
>KH2FM on Level 1 Critical
If we're going that route we may as well compare it to Wizardry 4 or Etrian Odyssey. Planning, risk mitigation and adaptability are skills whether you like it or not.

If you care about being forthright you'd compare the laughable mashfest that is vanilla KH2 to a JRPG. You're just here to shitpost and get mad when people acknowledge KH is a flawed as fuck action RPG series that's all over the place both as a franchise and within the systems and design of each individual game.

It's okay that the thing you like isn't perfect. Calm down.

They require decision-making skills, not reflexes and hand-eye coordination.

Did this nigger seriously just compare fucking turn-based RPG's to motherfucking Chess?

Nigger not even the most autistic tactical video games out there have the depth of Chess let alone your entry level weaboo turn based trash.

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>base game of KH3 vs $15 DLC for FFXV

not helping your cherrypicking "argument"

just looking at that webm might turn you gay

To me FF7 is Top 1 and FF6 is Top 2. At the end of the day nothing is better than Suikoden 2 anyway.

>Anyone who disagrees with me is retarded.
I'm sure you want an intelligent, thoughtful discussion. There's good stuff in there, but a lot of the normal mobs are comprised of a combination of braindead goons for the kids to style on and bigger guys that either have a fair bit of super armor or designated weak points, arranged to annoy rather than challenge. In a vacuum they're fine, but in practice the game is annoyance before you learn and pathetic non-challenge once you do. Big step down from 1's enemy packs imo.

>Just hold O, bro!

Attached: Hold-O-2.webm (960x540, 2.92M)

>How do you feel about the English translation of Romancing SaGa 3 that exists now?
You mean the one that Gideon was pushing?
I don't know about that one, the prologue already contained errors and was evidently translated by someone who didn't play through the game, I don't know if something changed since the last time I checked on it, surely better than Manasword I guess, but hard to call it appropriate from what I've seen.
On the other hand, the official localization for 2 was far from being perfect either, what with the usual gratuitous name changes and all, so eh, it's the usual problem of the source material still being the best.
We usually have plenty of discussion about localization changes for the series when we have threads, so it's not like you're gonna lose much, you just need to ask and some people will pop up to point out the mistranslations or just plain errors.

Don't worry, there's no need to look for chess when you don't have the skill necessary to beat any of those.

>up the speed to max and don't overlevel you casual
top fucking kek
do people think this actually makes Chrono Trigger difficult?

>let me suck shit at a game on purpose just to prove a point!

this is the last (You) will get from me Barry.

XV is casual mess thanks to the director

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Name one (1) game harder than Chrono Trigger.

I don't see the difference.

>Name one (1) game harder than Chrono Trigger.
You can't be serious, someone please tell me this is just really bold bait.

Attached: 1564065314967.png (1240x900, 1.06M)

Dark Souls

I hate the stupid name changes and accents Square pushes, but that aside they put out some of the best translations in the industry these days. DQ11 especially blew me away.

Ok you're serious? How about this:
>Even then, there's more compelling options pretty readily available in any given year an FF was released.
Tell me a "more compelling option" to Final Fantasy IV in 1991 or 1992.
>Phantasy Star II
>Dragon Quest 5
FF4 is better than either of these games.
>Ultima VI
>Gold Box D&D
>Eye of the Beholder/Dungeon Master
>Might and Magic 3
Apples to oranges comparisons. Those games all have various specific strengths over Final Fantasy IV, but all come with substantial downsides as well.

I'm gonna go hipster on this one and suggest Gen'ei Toushi if that's the time frame you want.
And no, FF4 isn't better than DQ5.

>Did this nigger seriously just compare fucking turn-based RPG's to motherfucking Chess?
It was a reply to a complete and utter retard asserting that because a game doesn't require reflexes and hand-eye coordination, it cannot be considered difficult.
There are few types of numb-brained morons I hate more than people like you who deliberately misunderstand the point of using an example to emphasize a specific point, and take it as a full analogy. You are some of the dumbest fucks on the internet.

Final Fantasy is the highest form of JRPG. Acquire taste, pleb.

I don't agree at all.
Those braindead goons can kill you in 2 hits in higher difficulties.

>in practice the game is annoyance before you learn and pathetic non-challenge once you do.
The same goes for KH1.
Not to mention both games give you overpowered options.
Cure in KH1 is broken as is Reflect(especially in combination with High Level Stitch) in 2(except for Data Fights).

At the very least since cure costs your entire MP bar in 2 that means you can have those challenging Data Fights. With KH1's system you would just spam cure over and over.
Of course there's ways around that with the Drive forms in KH2 but they take extremely fast menu navigation to pull off in Data Battles and they're not as abusable because they carefully implemented the Anti-Form shit to punish you for spamming it.

>FF4 isn't better than DQ5.
yes it is

Nah you dug your own grave when you started to bring into this you autist.

>yes it is
It really isn't, the fact that a dragon quest game of all things beats it on player input is especially embarassing.
The story in DQ5 is also much more interesting and well executed than FF4 being a shitty copout copypasta of FF2 with less balls and even more star wars memes.

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>But what irked me most me was how godawful the writing is
Thats where I knew this post was a troll. Saged.

See and fuck off you retarded piece of shit.
There's a reason why Artificial Intelligence still hasn't solved Chess.

Do you seriously think your shitty turn-based games compare to Chess? Are you that fucking retarded?
Not to mention that Chess is a traditional game which is played competitively thus automatically making it much more of a game than a fucking JRPG.

Turn based JRPG trash doesn't even have the depth of C&C or Starcraft let alone fucking Chess.
Heck it doesn't even have the depth of Tactical RPG's like Shining Force, Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics.
Seriously kill yourself you stupid fucking kiddie.

Terra is cute

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>literally making up lies about playing on emulator somehow changing how combat functions

t. kh sperg

cope

Attached: ff5 hold x to win battles!.webm (780x540, 2.93M)

kh3 took longer to make than the time it took for xv plus dlc and that is in pc version by default

>the fact that a dragon quest game of all things beats it on player input is especially embarassing.
You say this like it's unusual. Shit, FF5 is the best at that of the gen 4/5 FFs and it's the most similar to Dragon Quest.

>bro just hold o to wi-

>this autistic outdated and debunked mistranslated bullshit again
Oh fuck off KH cocksucking faggot

That isn't the combat at all because you have manual attacks with opener, mid, finisher, counter and aerial attacks, charge attacks, directional inputs, warpstrike, point warps and warp itself, manual weapon switching which each weapon type plays differently, plus character switch which adds even more variety because each member has their own unique combat to them.

Stop fucking posting outdated 2014 interview that was literally debunked a few days after it was posted.

You're such a retarded cunt that gets BTFO on a daily basis and you're a piece of absolute shit.

FF7R literally has Hold to attack too you stupid fucking retard

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>FF4 is better than either of these games.
Unfortunately it's worse than Phamtasy Star for Master System.

>FF4 is better than either of these games.
What exactly makes FF4 better than all the games you listed?

the kh3 clip is only pressing one button to do all that flashy shit while the xv clip is pressing multiple buttons with specific timing required to do all that flashy stuff

>Do you seriously think your shitty turn-based games compare to Chess? Are you that fucking retarded?
No, you are fucking retarded for not being able to grasp simple argumentation. Your inability to grasp points and make appropriate responses is really rather comical given what you're trying to argue about. It's fairly safe to conclude based on your reasoning that even a standard JRPG for babies is beyond your ability to comprehend.

>FF4 better than DQ5
nigga you high?

Can you put a trip so I can filter you please?

>bringing up difficulty when arguing about various FF games
>when absolutely all of them have always been and always will be completely piss easy, optional superbosses included
>inb4 some retard says "just stay underleveled/don't use x" when this applies equally to all of them
Can't you guys just admit that some types of games are on the easier side and there's nothing wrong with that?

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>argumentation
Retarded ESL detected.

You shitty turn based trash doesn't require skill. Neither physical skill nor intellectual skill.

I mentioned SFC 4 is too easy earlier. I'm good with admitting FF games tend to be really easy. I just have a problem with 4 because it's pitiful while not having a good hook (7 is also so easy a baby could crush it, but it excels as a goofy ass dramedy).

>inb4 some retard says "just stay underleveled/don't use x" when this applies equally to all of them
Which is stupid because the games weren't designed that way.

Attached: flat,800x800,075,f.u1.jpg (443x455, 34K)

Agreed, self imposed challenges and nonstandard difficulty options don't apply. That said, FF and KH are equally braindead.

Pssst... hey faggot... use berserk on him you fucking clod

>KH
>Braindead
Zoomer spotted.

Attached: Kingdom Hearts Combat.webm (853x480, 2.95M)

No hipster it isn't.
>What exactly makes FF4 better than all the games you listed?
Vs PS and DQ:
- Polished and dynamic ATB battle system. (with more elegant turn ordering, etc. as has been mentioned)
- More party members and varied enemy composition.
- More satisfying and useful combat animations.
- Straightforward and accessible story that doesn't go overboard on anime tropes and cliches.
- Superior UI. Hard to imagine, as FF4's is archaic by modern standards but the simple clarity and effectiveness of the FF4 UI is just better than either PS2 or DQ5.
>vs the WRPGs
Better dramatic cutscenes, more consistent difficulty curve and consistent gameplay pacing. Though like I said, the WRPGs excel at different things and you'd play them for different reasons.

More specifically berserk+vanish, though you still need a way to deal with ultima.

>Only a hipster could like less popular thing more.
If this was a hipster thing I'd be talking about Chaos World. God forbid someone has an uncommon opinion, they must be a poser. Guess my dislike for PhS2 was also fake all along.

Cool, now mash him out in normal mode with exp0 off.

>KH
Stop talking about games you didn't play.

>tfw we will never a game as kino as this again
Fuck Nomura for killing Tokyo Team and FUCK OSAKA TEAM FUCK THEM REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>Can't you guys just admit that some types of games are on the easier side and there's nothing wrong with that?
That's never the argument though. That's easy to admit. The problem is the insane exaggerations.

Also, you should realize there's a difference between accepting the relatively low level of challenge present when you play the game through at a reasonable pace, winning random encounters along the way but not going out of your way to repetitively grind near a safe spot to increase levels to get overpowered. All too often retarded detractors make claims like "all you ever do to win is attack and heal every so often" which is often a sign that someone has done just that: leveled up beyond what is necessary to win and is just steamrolling. Or they are cherry-picking early game content meant to be easy in games with a reasonable/gentle learning curve.

Otherwise, you couldn't even have a simple discussion about something like whether Kefka is more challenging than Zeromus. Obviously, if you're sufficiently underleveled, either one will kill you outright. And if you're sufficiently over-leveled, neither one presents much of a challenge.

But, given a reasonable approach to both games, you can compare the challenges involved in each fight, the methods available to win them, and which one takes more concentration and careful decision making in a typical play (the answer is: Zeromus). And frankly, in that case you can even compare maxed-out parties if you want to. With Zeromus, even at level 60 you'll probably at least have to pay attention to what you're doing even if it's very easy. With Kefka you can just kill him in 3 turns with your massive damage potential.

Life 3 you ding dong

Not him but not an argument. Level 1 Critical is an official mode of the game and the one the game was really designed for really.

Even in Normal mode you can't just mash him because of the RC. You can only hit him so much before he retaliates and hits you back.
Sure it's easier to survives but no you can't just mash him without him doing anything.

And this is just Normal Roxas not Data Roxas.

That's not really a matter of Kefka being better designed than Zeromus as much as it is being able to reach a way higher damage/defensive potential overall in Vi vs IV. Mechanically speaking one boss isn't more special than the other, though Kefka has the one notable difference of the tower gauntlet/12 player fight before him.
Don't ding dong me you forgot jump/palidor and rasp/osmose.

Based

>You say this like it's unusual. Shit, FF5 is the best at that of the gen
FF5 has zero player input whatsoever and less player input than DQ5.

Attached: FF6.png (976x1640, 463K)

excuse my ignorance, how can I make a "mosaic" of screens of a game? Do you use some program?

imagemagick montage.

Literally never fucking happened

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>That's not really a matter of Kefka being better designed than Zeromus as much as it is being able to reach a way higher damage/defensive potential overall in Vi vs IV.
No, that's only part of it.
- Party members in FF4 have varied HP and defense values. In FF6, everyone has a reasonable baseline.
- Zeromus has a much more raw offensive output, and begins using Big Bang immediately. Kefka doesn't start using Goner until a hp threshold.
- Zeromus can easily kill Rydia and Edge in a single Big Bang, and sometimes even Rosa or Kain on a lucky roll. Plus you'll have sap status most of the time so HP will rarely be full when Big Bang hits. So, when you get a bad roll and characters die, you have to decide what to do (while the clock is ticking toward the next Big Bang.
- Zeromus' counter-nuke is frequently dangerous because the target hit by it is more likely to die to the next Big Bang.
- Kefka attacks with elemental magic, and FF6 is fucking full of ways to nullify, absorb, or halve those attacks. The only way to reduce Z's damage is provoking a counter at the right moment (which might be unintended).
- Kefka's GrandTrain(Trine) is can be nullified with ribbons, and there are 4 obtainable in the game without any particular effort.
- Zeromus has more HP than Kefka

>Kefka has the one notable difference of the tower gauntlet
Yes, that's definitely the biggest thing in Kefka's favor as far as difficulty goes. Even all told, though, the fight sequence isn't as difficult as Zeromus.

ugly graphics

Name one (1) better looking SNES game.

Jesus fuck, you never let go, do you?

>Similarly Gestahl is only ever seen in full retard mode, you never get the idea he wants more power to improve the world or a the like.
You kind of do.
The thing in FF6's favor is that it manages to convey this in just a few lines of dialog during cutscenes in a game predominantly full of a standard gameplay loop. FF7 indulges in much longer cutscenes and extended storytelling events.

There are better looking games, but fuck that blind user, FF6 is a good example of good looking pixel art.

Attached: beautiful_snes.png (1301x3876, 1.75M)

Different strokes I guess I love FF6, but I've always been fond of the ensemble cast, and while the magicite system isn't as good as materia it's still fun.

cope

>FF6 is a good example of good looking pixel art
hah

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>GBA version

Attached: zoomer.png (434x327, 38K)

>I think FF4 is better!
M'kay, so why not just say that instead of acting like it's fact?
>Provide an argument... EXCEPT THIS ONE!
Yea Forums in a nutshell: "please don't provide an argument I don't personally like."
The sad thing is I specifically mention they lose their touch at 6 and you bring up 4 anyway.
It's barely even the lowest form of taste. It's decaf RPGs. It's Diet RPGs. You intake FF when you have no brain power to commit to an RPG, you just plug in and forget about everything because it's basically just a spankfest from start to end; at worst you'll have to apply some spells you don't normally use, or grind out a level or two for that last learned skill.
I don't really hate FF, but it's really just middle of the road RPGs. Each system is loaded up with great games. And like I said, most FF titles lose to games that came before them.

I think maybe this worship of FF is just what you guys do, and that's cool, but maybe just call it what it is.

It'll be pretty sad to see RS3 beautiful background go in the remaster, as much as they've done a great job in translating them, such a masterful use of colours and sprite art for a SNES RPG.
>Posting NeoGeo games
The dishonesty and butthurt is so palpable I can cut it with a knife.

>and the one the game was really designed for really.
It was an extra mode added for a rerelease, fuck off. The game was designed for normal mode. EXP0 is just an option for a challenge run, just like self-imposed challenge runs in FF. Don't pull bullshit double standards just because the way you like to play the game is a post-release challenge mode.

>Zeromus has a much more raw offensive output, and begins using Big Bang immediately. Kefka doesn't start using Goner until a hp threshold.
Kefka opens with Heartless Angel if I remember correctly.
>Zeromus' counter-nuke is frequently dangerous because the target hit by it is more likely to die to the next Big Bang.
Kefka counters with both hyperdrive and ultima, hyperdrive being able to kill its target even with strong endgame gear, and ultima being able to kill more than one character.
You are right that Goner is kind of pathetic compared to Big Bang though, Kefka's other attacks are way more dangerous in comparison.

>FF5 has zero player input
What the hell are you defining as "player input?"

Chrono Trigger, SaGa and SMT are all infinitely better. I'd even add DQ and Mother.

Why not put any of those CG scenes from Terranigma?
Those were easily the most impressive part technically.

Player input in how the game develops, what else?
FF5 will always be the same exact game every time you play it, at least DQ5 does give you a choice in terms of marrying one of the wives that adds a bit of flavour to a replay and lets you see slightly different things, FF5 doesn't have even that, though admittedly, nobody plays FF for the gameplay or player input, they're pretty much movies.

>>I think FF4 is better!
>M'kay, so why not just say that instead of acting like it's fact?
Faggot you haven't done anything other than spew vague opinions about how Final Fantasy games aren't good at anything, without justifying a single point. Don't lecture me about objectivity.
>I specifically mention they lose their touch at 6 and you bring up 4 anyway
Sure, just so we're clear that the claim made here is absolute bullshit and you were talking out of your ass the whole time:

I really hate these zoomers too.
Pisses me off how some of these zoomers play Breath of Fire 1 GBA with color/music restoration patch because "muh run button" when it worse character portraits, worse menu UI, worse resolution etc.

You said good pixel art and I posted good pixel art unlike the pike of puke that is ff6.

No it wasn't you cunt. They planned from that shit for the beginning but they had to cut it off from the vanilla release just like they had to cut out the Roxas battle.

>EXP0 is just an option for a challenge run, just like self-imposed challenge runs in FF.
Holy shit, just kill yourself. No seriously, just do it. The less of you low IQ monkeys in this world the better.

But the entire party composition and playstyle changes based on your job choices. It's probably the single most repayable FF. What kind off asshole quantifies "player input" by story choices and then complains about a game being story driven while ignoring how the entire way the game plays can be altered?

Alright, let's play your game then.

Attached: 0071.png (2688x2016, 140K)

Brain dead graphics whoring is peak zoomer, kill you're self fgt

>They planned from that shit for the beginning but they had to cut it off from the vanilla release
>Guys the game was totally balanced around this first and foremost but it had to be cut and three other difficulty options were created instead.
Were you born stupid?
This isn't like DMC1 where you could argue DMD is the "core" game and the lower difficulties are warmups. What you're describing is a scrapped extra game mode reimplenented later. Emphasis on "extra." If it was the core of the game's design there would be no purpose in removing it, everything would be derived from it anyway.

I know KH fanboys hate admitting their series has flaws, but Critical Modd isn't what KH2 was designed around, just like with 3. It was a mode that took the systems in place into consideration and made a better game out of it. You'd have to be delusional to believe otherwise.

>But the entire party composition
No, your party will always be Butz, Lenna, Faris and Kryle, with some Galuf along the way.
>and playstyle changes based on your job choices
So does DQ3 or even something as old as Wizardry, this isn't player input, this is basic ass RPG mechanics.
>It's probably the single most repayable FF
Cool beans for a series with zero replay value whatsoever, I guess.
>What kind off asshole quantifies "player input" by story choices
Because in an RPG I kind of expect to have at least a tiny shred of player agency beyond how I choose to kill things, which matters very little in FF5 since it's not just piss easy but also mechanically barren.

>nobody plays FF for the gameplay or player input, they're pretty much movies.
how ironic, since DQ5 started the trend of linear DQ games and a million cutscenes. Anyway
is right, FF5 is magnitudes more replayable than any DQ because of jobs. Before you honestly say stupid shit like FF5 having no player input you should play a four job fiesta and see that it has very clever design under the hood.

Eh was never much for Street Fighter 3's look
Not a big fan of the mix of 2D and 3D and I hated the character designs and how they had less shading and stuff

I prefer CPS1 Street Fighter 2 even if it is technologically inferior.

How is EXP Zero not a challenge toggle? All it does is stop you from leveling. It's just a more intentional implementation of a low level run.

I love DQ and think most FF games suck, but god you're a cunt.

There is no way in hell you can convince me that Critical Mode/Level 1 Critical wasn't planned.
You can't just implement a system like that out of the blue.

Of course I doubt it would have been bit per bit identical to the version we got(after all some abilities got tweaked in 2FM) but there's no way in hell the game wasn't designed around it.

>Nobody plays FF for the gamepla-

Attached: God Tier FFXV Combat 2.webm (960x540, 2.97M)

>Kefka opens with Heartless Angel if I remember correctly.
Yeah he uses Fallen One first so you need to queue up a cure right away (which can probably be done with any character as everyone should have cure magic by that point). Really not a big deal.
Zeromus on the other hand immediately begins a cycle of Big Bangs. The entire battle is defined by needing to decide what you're going to do in the space between big bangs.
>Kefka counters with both hyperdrive and ultima,
A 1/3 chance. And here's where it's hard to ignore the difference in damage output because Kefka only counters with Ultima when he's got less than 10k hitpoints, and it's not hard at all to have multiple characters who can hit that threshold in a single turn.
Also, having a character die to hyperdrive is not as big a deal as having a character die in the Zeromus fight. If a character dies in the Z fight, you have to either leave them dead or dedicate enough turns to raise them and heal them to survive the next big bang (clock is ticking). If it was Rosa that died, that means Life2 is not an option and you'll need at least 2 turns to get back on your feet. And if she is, you'll have to decide between using her turns to bring the dead character back or heal the characters still alive.
If someone dies against Kefka and they weren't already Life3'd, you just have someone else Life2 them. Or worse case scenario Phoenix Down and a cure, which you can do more or less at your leisure.

>There is no way in hell you can convince me that Critical Mode/Level 1 Critical wasn't planned.
Read, retard.
>What you're describing is a scrapped extra game mode reimplenented later.
It was probably a planned mode, but if the game was designed around it there would be no need to scrap it. You're mistaking something being the best way to play with being the default, intended mode of play.

>How is EXP Zero not a challenge toggle? All it does is stop you from leveling.
No, this is not all it does.
When you activate EXP Zero damage scaling comes into play. Your damage output gets scaled depending on which point of the game you are so it's nothing like a typical low level run at all.
It also doesn't negate all leveling since you still can level your drive/summons.

GBA games often have worse performance and are just worse overall. Usually there are hacks if you want run speed and some QoL updates, without having to downgrade the entire experience to get them.

>It was probably a planned mode
That's what I'm saying. But the FM version was always planned to be done later so they did make sure to design the game in such a way that it would be compatible with the FM version they were gonna work on later.

Otherwise a lot of the bosses might have not been possible to beat if they didn't design with that in mind.

>seizure-inducing animations is gameplay
you're not persuading anyone with these webms you realize that right?

>Less screen size and ugly UI and text is better
Dumbass millennial

Is it literally just FF7 fags repeatedly spamming FF6 threads every time? Because everytime i see someone shitting on it their crying about how anyone who likes it is "Contrarian" & nobody is allowed to prefer a FF game to FF7

>how ironic, since DQ5 started the trend of linear DQ games and a million cutscenes
Still has more player input than FF5, cry me a river.
>is right, FF5 is magnitudes more replayable than any DQ because of jobs.
There's also many DQ with jobs though, so this doesn't really add up, especially when DQ3 gave you a class system before FF5.
>you should play a four job fiesta and see that it has very clever design under the hood.
Fiesta autism has nothing to do with player input and again, the games are so mechanically barren you have to pretend your generic ass spells with a different skin exclusive to one of your costumes somehow is deep gameplay.
Fuck outta here with that shit.

This doesn't really sound like its unrelated at all to character damage/defense potential when you talk about what the characters can/can't do like that. You made a few points like that in your previous post as well when you mentioned ribbons and elemental defense gear. A better way to approach this would be to ask how FFIV's endgame party would fare against fighting Kefka, like if he was just transplanted into the game. Stuff like handling his Ultima counter becomes more difficult because its way harder to do 10k damage in one turn with FFIV's party.

The only question then would be whether the tower gauntlet should be included or not, but in order to make this fair you'd have to give the player 2 of every character too (2 Cecil's 2 Rosa's, etc, or just go the route of the ports and have the other slots filled with the "dead" characters).

Gen 4 was the last good gen unovababy.

This entire thread sounds like retards that can't bumrush and rob dinosaurs

no DQ has jobs, silly. You can't enter a menu and swap out a class as you please. And the customizing /mechanics depth isn't anywhere near FF5. You can't
- change an enemy type to dragon
- manipulate levels and use techniques that target certain levels
- combine ingredients for in-battle effects
- command enemies
- use clever builds to make gimmick weapons like Blood Sword viable
in any DQ.

nah im actually 84

/doublethread

>what is megami tensei
>what is saga
>what is ys
>what is kiseki
>what is kingdom hearts
>what is breath of fire
>what is suikoden
>what is grandia
>what is wild arms
>what is valkyrie profile
>what is mana
>what is mystery dungeon
>what is front mission
>what is mother
>what is chrono
>what is monster hunter
>what is etrian odyssey
final fantasy has its moments, but the only way you could possibly consider it the "highest form of jrpg" is if you've played nothing else.

It is. VI is pretty similar to VII but gets more praise nowadays, which pisses off nostalgic fags of VII, who fill up the greatest portion of its fanbase.

>no DQ has jobs, silly. You can't enter a menu and swap out a class as you please. And the customizing /mechanics depth isn't anywhere near FF5. You can't
>- change an enemy type to dragon
>- manipulate levels and use techniques that target certain levels
>- combine ingredients for in-battle effects
>- command enemies
>- use clever builds to make gimmick weapons like Blood Sword viable
>in any DQ.

You're vastly overstating those aspects of FF5. You don't 'command enemies' in FF5, the capture mechanic is just a one-off attack. Functionally it's no different from a spell or ability.

The 'insane customization depth' in FF5 is just bogstandard jrpg stuff present in DQ as well.

Pic related is about FF9, but it applies to FF5 as well (except for thieves in FF5 being able to detect the odd hidden passage, whoop di doo).

Attached: 1378128812.jpg (2000x2516, 768K)

dumb zoomer kill yourself

I can understand where you're coming from, they had to leave wiggle room for later. A game I love dearly, DQ11, has a similar situation. They always planned to add extra difficulty options for later versions, and I love its balance on Harder Monsters...but the game was designed around normal difficulty, and the balance there is ass. The later mode added for fans is great, but that's not what the game was originally designed to be played on. I feel like it would be hypocritical to see these adjusted values as valid where a self-imposed challenge isn't in terms of enjoyment. Maybe in design, but playing a game that way is fine and often preferable.

It's posts like these that prove and correct. I would also point towards FFT fanboys as being incredibly obnoxious.

>Calls people driving fun from game systems autism while adamantly standing by the idea that game quality is tied to a concept like story involvement over all else despite disparaging story driven games.

The fucking irony.

>You don't 'command enemies' in FF5
finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Control_(ability)
Control FFV

Control in effect in Final Fantasy V.

Control (あやつる, Ayatsuru?, lit. Manipulate), also known as Manipulate and Charm, is an ability that appears in various games in the Final Fantasy series. In most instances, it allows a character to take control of an opponent via the Control status. In many games, this ability is required to learn certain Blue Magic spells.

Control is the Level 2 ability in the Beastmaster class that inflicts the Control status, learned for 50 ABP. This is useful in learning the Blue Magic spells White Wind, Mighty Guard, and Transfusion. The ability has a 40% chance of working without the Hypno Crown equipped, and a 75% chance of working with the Hypno Crown equipped.

I have played almost every final fantasy game and I can say with almost 100% certainty that only 2 of them aren't complete fucking garbage

>finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Control_(ability)

I thought you were referring to the capture mechanic.

So the equivalent of a charm spell? How is that noteworthy in any way again?

To be fair I don't care much for either VI or VII this is just what I continue to see in these threads. VI and VII fags both sides don't want to admit flaws to their favorite nostalgic game and it's just a wack pissing contest between those 2 fanbases primarily.

Oh, thieves in FF5 used to be the only way to sprint out of battle.
They also have a skill that allows you to run from any battle 100%, a passive that prevents surprise attacks, and mug that lets you attack and steal at the same time. Their ultimate ability lets you give their agility boost to any other job class. It's insanely useful, especially in challenge runs.

In a JRPG, stealing is rewarded with unique items.
In a WRPG, stealing is useless, since you can just kill the thing and take their stuff without having to gimp your party with a weak class that is done better by rangers.

Charm is not control.
You've never played an FF game.
Charm makes enemies randomly attack a random target with a random skill.

Control gives you full control of the monster. You pick the skill and the target.

>You can't enter a menu and swap out a class as you please.
Yeah, those games have commitment to the classes you choose, unlike Casual Fantasy V.

>Oh, thieves in FF5 used to be the only way to sprint out of battle.
They also have a skill that allows you to run from any battle 100%, a passive that prevents surprise attacks, and mug that lets you attack and steal at the same time. Their ultimate ability lets you give their agility boost to any other job class. It's insanely useful, especially in challenge runs.
None of those things have anything to do with being a thief, which is what that image is about.

>In a WRPG, stealing is useless, since you can just kill the thing and take their stuff without having to gimp your party with a weak class that is done better by rangers.
Sure...if you want to potentially aggro an entire town just to steal one thing of somebody's corpse.

Besides, as that image highlights, thieves have plenty of other abilities, both in and out of combat. That's not even getting into dual- or multi-classing a thief with other classes.

How long until you kill yourself?
>You've never played an FF game.
He hasn't played a single game he criticizes, he's WRPG-Kun.

>Control gives you full control of the monster. You pick the skill and the target.
At the cost of giving up control of the Beastmaster who uses control on the enemy. That's not really an ideal method to handle a mind-control ability.

This, 5's a beautiful mess and a wonderful compliment to DQ3. It's the foosball to its cricket.

>thieves have plenty of other abilities, both in and out of combat.
All of which are useless since arcane casters exist.
>That's not even getting into dual- or multi-classing a thief with other classes.
Bold point to make against the FF game that introduce multiclassing.

Traps are useless in every D&D game.
UMD is worthless if you have a wizard or sorc, druid, ranger, bard or any other magic class. Their only utility is sneak attack, which doesn't work on undead and constructs.

Meanwhile, Rangers and Bards are useful all the time.
Rogues are shit tier.

At least in FF5, the thief is unique enough to stand on his own.

thanks

FF gets props for making Rogue/Ninja not shit but also not wanking it endlessly.

>At least in FF5, the thief is unique enough to stand on his own.
By having no abilities that have anything to do with being a thief...except for detecting a hidden side passage once in a blue moon.

Based and Beepzorzpilled.

>By having no abilities that have anything to do with being a thief
Stealing shit, dashing, having better escape chances etc. all sound very thievish to me.

>Stealing shit
Attacking an enemy and magically conjuring an item out of him (an item that somehow is absent when looting his corpse) is not stealing, it's just a convoluted loot drop.

>dashing, having better escape chances
How exactly does one thief grant the entire party those benefits?

Also, the fact that the most thievy thing about a thief is a minor quality of life feature like being able to dash is rather sad, to say the least.

Attached: OP can't play FF6.png (1880x2166, 490K)

>All of which are useless since arcane casters exist.
Arcane casters can't backstab, pickpocket, steal from stores, detect traps or set traps (though they do have spells that alter the environment and can function as traps). They can use spells to open locks, dispel illusions and turn invisible, although that requires spending their limited spell slots memorizing those spells.

>when you talk about what the characters can/can't do like that.
Nah it's an integral part of the game. You can't completely ignore relevant content like that.
>A better way to approach this would be to ask how FFIV's endgame party would fare against fighting Kefka, like if he was just transplanted into the game
No not at all since we're actually just talking about which fight is harder in a typical play of the game, not some hypothetical scenario that no one would ever encounter.
For example, do you allow FF4 characters to use any FF6 equipment? A typical party facing Kefka will have a couple of Minerva armors that nullify Fire/Ice/Lit entirely. You'll probably have thunder shields absorbing lightning and halving fire and ice.
Do you require FF4's row formation or do you allow FF6 and put everyone in the back row?
>Stuff like handling his Ultima counter becomes more difficult because its way harder to do 10k damage in one turn with FFIV's party.
Well, it's possible, the difference is that you can't just churn out 10k damage any round you want. The way an FF4 party would deal with the risk of Ultima would be to have Edge save his Exalibur or Spoon dart until the final phase of combat. When Kefka goes under 10k, Edge throws Excalibur and hopefully ends the fight. If not, there's a 33% chance you'll wipe to Ultima. Otherwise you can finish him off with Bahamut or Holy.

steal/mug, scouting for enemies (to prevent ambushes) and being agile are all thief tropes, and the FF5 thief does those.

In FF3, thieves also can pick locks. In other installments, they can steal money, or even HP and MP or stats.

In FFT, they can steal equipment.

In FFXI, their 2hr is Perfect Dodge, and they get a Sneak Attack ability and Trick Attack that lets them transfer aggro to another party member by attacking from behind that member. They can hide, reducing their sight aggro radius, and steal buffs from enemies.

moron, reacting to a difficult situation (like the Liquid Flame or Sol Cannon fights who btfo physical damage heavy teams) by switching around loadouts mid-dungeon is what enables dynamic gameplay. In DQ your classes are unchanged for hours and you just mash your way through samey bosses with a boring party. No wizards throwing magic scrolls in DQ, forget it.
you forgot the !Control move, idiot. It mind controls enemies and makes them do your bidding.
>>Control gives you full control of the monster. You pick the skill and the target.
>At the cost of giving up control of the Beastmaster who uses control on the enemy. >That's not really an ideal method to handle a mind-control ability.
moving the goal posts.
Yeah I know
>replying to WRPG-denka

>steal/mug
Again, attacking an enemy and magically conjuring an item out of him (an item that somehow is absent when looting his corpse) is not stealing, it's just a convoluted loot drop.

>scouting for enemies (to prevent ambushes)
How exactly does the thief scout for enemies considering FFV has invisible random encounters?

>being agile
I'll give you that one.

>>At the cost of giving up control of the Beastmaster who uses control on the enemy.
It's a fair trade for balance purposes, considering how powerful most enemies can be.

Hell, using it on the fake Exdeath in that one castle gives you a way to make him one-shot himself.

Every time someone asks how to get into a franchise you give them the best FF to get hooked on the franchise. And 10 is the only one that fits the bill.
6 and 7 are outdated trash, 12, 13 and 15 aren't even FF, 9 and 8 are just gimmick.
Face it, the best FF, the only one who stood the test of time is 10. Sure, you can bitch about Tidus' voice actor just like I can anout the Opera on 6, but this is minor shit. 10 has the perfect balance, an epic journey without muh open world to destroy the flow of the game, it's not as stupidly easy like 6 and 7, with memorable difficulty spikes like Seymour and Yunalesca, and the setting is original, not some generic medieval shit with minimal sci-fi, you know it 's true, let go of your fear and say it with me:
Final Fantasy 10 is the best Final Fantasy.

>No not at all since we're actually just talking about which fight is harder in a typical play of the game, not some hypothetical scenario that no one would ever encounter.
The whole point was that what makes FFVI encounters so trivial, Kefka included, was more to do with how overpowered the average FFVI party is vs the more relatively balanced FFIV party. I don't really think its fair to say that Kefka is notably less difficult than Zeromus in a straight comparison when everything that makes fighting Kefka trivial can be attributed to what your party in VI can do, and not specifically what Kefka himself does. I think its fair to call FFVI easier than FFIV in that regard, though going all the way back to the original subject matter, I wouldn't say that makes FFIV a difficult game by any means either. The goalpost there is just low.

Facts.

>How exactly does the thief scout for enemies considering FFV has invisible random encounters?

It's called roleplaying. You're equating game mechanics to fluff instead of pure crunch. Thieves prevent back attacks because they use their stealthiness to scout for ambushes.

Have you ever played a tabletop game? Like, even once?

that castle had also the shield dragon, also a real cunt without control cheese. Yeah FF5 is a cheesy and easily broken game, but exactly because it has a myriad of options it's so fun to revisit and dissect, which is why it's still one of my absolute favorites of the era and series. . The solo runs of this guy are legendary.
sullla.com/FF/finalfantasy.html

Y'all are pussies.

Attached: MasterThief.png (1122x866, 807K)

>You have Celes deciding to live or die over a guy she had talked to twice, but suddenly he's the love of her life

Love at first sight has been a common and popular trope since the days of Shakespeare and probably long before that. I mean in the original version of Romeo and Juliet, the titular characters knew each other for, what, all of 24 hours? before deciding to literally COMMIT SUICIDE OVER EACH OTHER. Yet the play is still considered a timeless classic and has spawned some eighty gorillion remakes, reinterpretations, modernization, homages, and parodies.

>It's called roleplaying.
If only there was a way to have enemies visible to actually make that scouting skill something concrete instead of just something you imagine. What if you could use graphics to depict enemies?

No, no, that's madness. That's impossible. No game could do that.

It's still partly due to what Kefka does.
1. Kefka is not that fast. Zeromus is very fast relative to the party.
2. Attacks aren't that strong. Havoc Wing misses half the time anyway and elemental magic doesn't do much damage.
3. Fallen One looks scary, but ultimately it can't kill anybody and just demands that you get everyone enough health to survive an elemental attack on everyone.

The only things that make Kefka potentially scary are the Ultima counter (which is frankly kind of cheap and designed for a game where characters can buff with Life3) and the GrandTrain/Trine attack which can wreck you if you don't have enough ribbons.

It's hard to say though because everything I describe about the Zeromus fight I've experienced personally many times. Meanwhile, I have to deliberately fuck around on Kefka in order to see his script play out all the way and even seeing Ultima at all is extremely rare.

In The Magic Flute, Tamino falls in love with Pamina after only seeing a portrait of her.

That guy inspired me to do a "no job" run.
Possibly the most fun run in FF5, since you're basically batman.

He also didn't figure out how to beat Omniscient Boss without MP cheese, but I DID.

If Omniscient is muted, he can't reset! But it only lasts like 2 seconds.

You use the Mage Masher and Ancient Sword.
If MM procs, it silences him for 2 seconds. If Ancient Sword procs, uses "old" on him and now he can't regen HP faster than he can damage himself.
Pair it with Reflect Rings and any party that can equip a dagger and a sword can beat him.

That's a more fair comparison. I will say having 5 characters over 4 helps compensate for Zeromus' speed slightly, though. And as you said with Ultima, a lot of FFVI seems like its designed like that, with very gimmicky but powerful cheap mechanics designed to try and compensate for overpowered players. It doesn't really work if you know what you're doing of course, but it creates a rift between encounter designs for VI and games like IV.