What's a good MMO that's actually fucking challenging in some degree?
I played WoW back in the day and I'm trying FFXIV now, I'm level 40 SCH and there's just no challenge whatsoever in anything. It was the same story in WoW. I'm tired of this shit.
Money is no object.
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try teaching a special needs class, it's basically the same as mmo endgame content
Difficult and often frustrating, but in the end it's rewarding?
If you actually sub to a fucking MMO in 2019, youre beyond help user. Make sure to buy Borderlands 3 when it comes out like the shit snorting scum fuck you are
>good
>mmo
pick one
>also I want a challenge
lmao
Wildstar. You missed out.
MMOs are more about reaching endgame than that these days. You might find it in older MMO's. City of Heroes can be a fuck, which is my experience as I play on Homecoming. SWTOR has its story difficulty levels too.
user, have you heard of Fallout 76?
>I'm level 40 SCH
Wow it's fucking nothing
>homecoming
Play on /coxg/ you onions sucking dipshit.
kek, this
if you want a challenge get to endgame content and do ex raids
or just play everquest
Wait for WoW classic. The livling is actually a challenge unless you pick hunter like some sort of faggot.
I work the night shift and my job let's me game all night, is there a better kind of game in which to kill ~8 hours a night?
>instant gratification faggot
The challenge is in the endgame you braindead imbecile, like in every MMORPG ever. You're not even halfway through to the max level in FFXIV. Think before you post.
Why the absolute fuck would I play with you 15 mouthbreathers?
>The livling is actually a challenge
No, its time consuming. Sitting down and eating food or water isn't a fucking challenge you retard.
>vanilla leveling
>a challenge
If you a literal retard, maybe.
>You OBVIOUSLY have to be bored out of your skull and do mundane tasks for 100 hours before you get to have fun, jeez retard, what part about that is hard to understand?
>You should mindlessly grind and everything should be piss easy until you get to the max level
At least say "Try X Dungeon with a party which is recommended for higher levels" or something. There's a reason people do minimum level runs of FF1.
>no challenge in ffxiv
i wish
MMORPGs aren't for you. Have you thought about CoD or Battlefield games?
>The challenge is in the endgame
>like in every MMORPG ever
you haven't played many MMOs, now have you?
>strawman
Nice argument, faggot.
i aint played many mmo's but are they all braindead other than optional raids? ff14 may be gay as fuck but synced binding coil was so much fun with randoms, learning to work together is a kind of fun i cant get anywhere else
Aurum Vale (level 47)is the first and only challenge in FFXIV until endgame. Everyone is way too overgeared for anything else now.
What's the best healing class in FFXIV?
If the game is too easy, you make a challenge for yourself. It's why people do speedruns. It's why people do stuff like "4 White Mages" or "4 Black mages" (Admittedly I don't know if that's actually hard or not). Don't be a faggot who thinks you only have one way to play.
post-WoW MMOs are not challenging.
You need to play old shit like Everquest, Asheron's Call, DAOC, etc. if you want challlenging content.
good to know, thanks
piss vale isn't challenging, it's just annoying.
>Mortal Online
>EVE Online
Well, they're not good per-say, but they're certainly challenging.
I miss 1.x
EAT MORBAL FRUUT
What tank should I play as someone who only played ranged DPS?
No, just difficult and frustrating. You'll tell yourself it's rewarding but it isn't. Those kids are going to be like that for the rest of their lives and you can't really do anything about it.
>I just started playing why isn't everything endgame-tier hard yet?
Topkek
I'm 68 hours in, I guess I have at least 68 more until I can play without smoking meth to stay awake
Ffxiv needs a heavy sync roulette or some shit. Would keep old content more fun when everyone's just barely over the required item level. Compensate with a decent high end tome reward or something
ngl my GF did that job to help kids / tard adults get high school diplomas
Its frustrating, slow and difficult in ways you cant imagine but it ends up rewarding as fuck when your entire class graduates
You sure you played other MMOs before?
I'm 900 hours in and I have yet to do the most difficult stuff this game has to offer
the version that is unanimously regarded as shit and was so bad they had to redo the whole thing? yea sounds like a Yea Forums opinion alright
>ffxiv's dungeons are full of instant death mechanics that you wouldn't know about unless you watched a guide video
I feel like this game was made for people who don't learn by doing
I have had at best one Aurum Vale run where one person hasn't left.
>WoW
>Character Boost to 110
>Level for 6-8 hours
>Start doing Mythic+ (is challenging content because it scales infinitely)
Definitely not hundreds of hours...
>buy a boost goy
Imagine not wanting to play video games so much you pay to skip it.
You probs won't see a spike in difficulty until end game. Same for WoW. Past 5 mythic raids in WoW had something between 1~4% clear rate each. FFXIV ultimate was under 2% iirc if you're not in JP.
If you want challenge in the form of more difficult leveling experience, classic WoW might fit the bill.
What?
Dying to something is not end of the world and people who think you should be able to clear anything without dying once is a stupid methodology.
>Everyone leaves after wiping because the newbie doesn't know about the mechanic
It sure is stupid
Classic Ragnarok Online
Is there a good guide or video or something about how you should progress through FFXIV as a newbie? Maybe some stuff the game doesn't tell you?
>bab's first time playing an mmo
Let me guess, you skip story and ignore skills too
GNB or DRK
Unironically Runescape classic on am Ironman server
Almost like shitty groups can exist anywhere and I highly doubt every single group you join breaks apart and leaves instantly if one person dies to something.
You get boosts free when you buy the expansion
Ignore literally all the sidequests, do the MSQs only (they have a special icon). Queue for dungeons in the duty finder but only after you go through the explicitly highlighted "novice hall" that teaches you the skills you are required to know.
Literally only classic WoW does this anymore. That is, actually presenting you with an adventure before max level, and making the entire game fun instead of it just being one or two "raids" at max level max ilevel. Currently MMOs are about getting to endgame where the "real" fun begins.
I haven't read the thread but I'm just going to assume there are a lot of posts already about shit like savage and mythic raiding.
Addendum to this, you should also do quests that have a blue question mark with a + sign as they generally unlock things.
Oh fuck off you vanillafags, you are all so god damn delusional about your piece of shit game.
It was the most casual MMO when it came out and it set the genre on a downward spiral leading to dozens of failed clones. It was not deep, it was not complex, it did not create an engaging adventure from 1-60 and it was not the second coming of christ.
Do quests marked as blue with + signs, they unlock important content from dungeons, to raids and bosses, to advancing your current class and unlocking abilities.
Don't be that fucking guy in a level 40 dungeon who still doesn't have a jobstone because some retard told him to ignore sidequests.
ty kind anons
If you just want to hit end-game, you just need to do the main story quest and your job quest. You get a pop-up explaining almost everything else, but I seem to remember there weren't very good in-game explanation on how to spend your tomestone.
If you care about crafting, side content, or unlocks,do all the blue quests you see as well, and you'll typically get an in-game explanation.
>it did not create an engaging adventure from 1-60
Okay retard, keep talking about it like it's a rose tinted glasses thing and not a game that everybody has actually been playing.
Oh yeah and before I forget, remember prepare your anus for 40 hours of MSQ filler quests between ARR and HW
based and truthpilled
WoW killed MMOs
You get one boost. And you are skipping a majority of the games content in the process.
that's pretty much my major turn off as a new mmo player. I'm enjoying the game overall but god damn people expect you to know everything about the game. I have the sprout for a fucking reason. never experienced a higher concentration of elitists on my life. that said there's been plenty of welcoming people as well but when I transferred to aether to play with my friends I find a whole lot less of them. the game isnt even hard I just can't know what I don't know yet in regards to some mechanics
IS there an MMO that rewards teamwork? Like FFXI?
I loved t hat game. its the only mmo to do it right aside from SWG.
FFXIV is soulless
It didn't you sack of shit, I leveled Druid, Paladin and Warlock to 60 and you know what it was? A ton of run of the mill fetch/kill quests and grinding mobs with the occasional dungeon. There was no story, there was no engaging quest chains, it wasn't difficult, and everything was braindead simple. Not to mention the class balance is completely fucked, the talents are idiotic and full of objectively terrible choices and clearcut builds, and tons of strange ass gearing choices due to wonky availability of stats and equipment.
Not really an MMO, but Monster Hunter World
>wow
>hard leveling ever
Nigga did you even play Lineage 2?
>get normal Garuda/Ifrit/Titan on Leveling Roulette
is there anything better?
Monster Hunter as a series is the closest we are going to get to "MMO Group PvE" as it's own game.
I really wish there were more games like that.
Cape Westwind on Trial Roulette comes close.
Check out PokeMMO if you ever get the chance. I have about 1k hours in the game and still running strong. The community is definitely a strong point.
oh no 15 whole dollars mommy will make me chose between a sub and vbuck :((((
>tfw I'm hoping Temtem can be a Pokemon MMO of it's own merit.
So far I've enjoyed it and I'm really shocked more companies haven't tried turning monster catching games into an MMO, the formula for them scales very well into an MMO sized game.
Truth, WoW was always a casual mmo but children who started on it always forget that. Yeah sure it became more casual but lets not pretend grinding for a 5% chance of getting a tiger paw in the jungle is some grand difficult task.
I played vanilla heavilly including clearing MC BWL AQ40 and half of Naxx and I agree. Everyone who's unironically excited for classic WoW should be rounded up and put into labor camps. These smooth brains are fucking delusional.
It's definitely a formula that I would like to see heavily incorporated into an MMO. With it's own twists and gimmicks of course
In one of those idea guys moments with friends we were discussing how if you just combined all of the various pokemon titles you really would get a very full MMO "world".
Having stuff like PokeSnap, PokeStadium, even the Rangers games could be included as a different avenue. It's incredibly easy to think of new continents as expansion packs in their own right that just continue to add to the base game. You've got endgame PvP nailed down already and one of the things Temtem does that I like is the entire game is built around 2v2 or 2v1 with the inclusion that you can co-op the entire game. They are also discussing ways to add group encounters since it has that focus, more partner style abilities and buffing/setting up combos.
Definitely neat to see but Early Access still blows and it could always go south and underdeliver heavily.
I heartily lold at this
I remember a time when the normal 4man Garuda caused multiple wipes.
>Wants a challenge
>Can't beat the easiest challenge of all. Getting max level.
You sure you want to play an MMO? Seems like this type of game is not of interest if you can't even level up.
why dont you fags just fuck off to xivg instead of making thinly veiled xiv threads constantly
I didn't beat it without max echo that's for sure
That is why I have come to enjoy PokeMMO, It has been around since 2012 and have managed to stay up since. The game has it's own staff that changes and such. The game currently has 3 regions with the inclusion of a 4th (Sinnoh) some time around October. The main downside of the game is that it only has 4 developers so things release at a slow pace.
there wasn't one up for like half of the day meanwhile there are constant Smash threads
no one wants to go to /vg/ since the mods there don't do their job
mmo players dont play other games
If I were a principal/HR guy and I saw your gf's resume I would probably go "If she can wrangle a class of 30 tards and teach them properly, she can definitely handle a class of twenty pricks". I'd assume that most HR folks would say the same.
I can see you two never tried to clear a cave as a warrior full of orange/red mobs that all patrol within 20ft of each other.
Classic wow is not a challenge.. Pfft.
Please help me understand why they didn't account for this.
how
??? no they aren't worst case scenario you lose half your health and get a vuln stack
Buy a level and story skip. Anyone can pick up the basics of their class in a few hours, and it's a lot better than wasting your time sitting through ARR, which is objectively a bad game in every respect.
>main villains are "the empire" and Organization XIII members straight out of Kingdom Hearts
>gameplay at level 50 is so easy you barely have to be conscious to do it
She's a senior HR manager now so its basically the same shit since there's no date when one of her coworkers aren't on their period
Imagine being this dumb.
I love mh but it doesn't really require teamwork or coordination at all. instead of beating up the monster, you're beating it up and 3 other people are present. the closest thing we have is extremoth in mhw which funnily enough uses mmo mechanics.
One of the things I was hoping Dauntless would do (and it doesn't) is try to bridge the gap more between MMO playstyles and MH boss design and combat.
Only Looty-Shooty games get sort of close to that but they still fuck it up. I just want an honest to god group PvE game with like 4-8 players that hunt monsters to collect loot, create character builds, and actually has mechanics and coordination requirements.
>he liked watching everyone take 5 seconds to nod at each other at the end every cutscene
>he liked quests that consist of re-iterating information you just learned to someone else, endless fetch quests, and blatant filler quests where you need to help someone so they can help you help someone else so they'll help you
>he thinks pressing 5 buttons in a cycle is good gameplay
>just starting
>challenging content
Pick one, retard. Theres savage and ultimate fights when you get to 80
thats the problem. the challenge in an mmo should start at level 1
why do you care what he likes
name one mmo that does this.
>blm downtime utility
>just run around spamming an instant gcd
>if you do this for 30 seconds (worst case scenario) you get a 750 potency nuke that can additionally be used for movement, weaving, a massive dps gain all around
>sam downtime utility
>pick a spot and stand very still
>after 15 seconds you get a 500 potency attack
>literally useless in 99.99% of lv80 content
fucking lmao glad it's going away
>I'm level 40 SCH
I'm convinced scholar players are literal retards at this point, if you don't like the levelling process in an mmo why did you bother? You know you can buy level/story skips right? This whole thread feels like b8
>hasn't come close to reaching endgame content
>complains about it not being challenging
literally no MMO made past 2003 is challenging at low-levels. You'd have to play OSRS or a EQ/FFXI/SWG legacy server to experience that kind of shit again.
Sch is boring as hell at lower levels though so they probably complain the most
you also get 50 kenki which is another 640 potency
Old TERA is literally the only difficult MMO I've played in my entire life. I have no idea what it's like nowadays though, but probably casualized to hell and back.
>wow why do these people expect a game to be fun from the start instead of only after 100+ hours of bullshit?
>all they have to do is spend another $25 to enjoy a game they bought, it's so fucking simple
ur a faget
whm
wow goddamn that's some lazy ass development
>expecting anything remotely challenging while leveling in a MMO
What's wrong with that?
I swear to god if this hotfix doesn't address Titan I'm going to be livid. I'm not putting up with another week of this shit fight.
And no mmo is challenging at endgame either unless you're in a top raiding guild or only play pvp. Even then it's still up to whether the game is balanced or not.
Whats wrong with it?
rust
if you are using scathe at any point in your rotation you are bad and need to learn how to play your class. blm has so many movement tools now the class is a joke.
Just wait for Pantheon.
While not a "saviour" by any means, it's the closest thing to old school we're going to have.
Here is a random set of wipes before a clear in Titan.
Look at how many phase 1 wipes there are. There's a reason for that. Titan bomb patterns after meteors is the main thing. A 2>3 dodge is practically impossible to do and a single person getting the damage down debuff from the bomb is enough to justify a wipe, but a 2>3 pattern usually means 6+ people are getting the damage down so it's obviously gonna be a wipe.
The second one being that Titan has an inconsistent enrage timer right now. Sometimes it randomly cuts off 15-20 seconds of DPS time. Turns out that's tied to the pattern he does in phase 1.
It might be the single worst fight in the game since A3S.
So what are the hotfixes going to be? Emergency Savage tuning? Potency tuning?
>he thinks it's talking about scathe instead of umbral soul
You're a fucking retard.
I am currently leveling up in WOW like a ((((real)))) ((((man)))), but fuck me if i ever gonna do that again - no fucking way, the content is fucking useless timegated outdated vanity crap. I tried to do a lot of things, but you quickly realise its just waste of time now, better get to the latest expansion and grind there.
Especially when you need to even grind flying in later expansions. Its just tedious.
ff14 unironically has a better sense of adventure than WoW did while levelling. It just didn't come out in 2004.
>What's a good MMO that's actually fucking challenging in some degree?
Lineage 2. That's it.
Max level was a mistake.
>wipe
>teleported in front of the boss
>people leave without saying anything
it just seems so baffling to me. no one communicates on whats being done wrong. how are bad players ever going to learn and become good players if no one instructs them on their mistakes? people just throw them in a bin and requeue. such a shitty community but thats how it is in modern mmos. everyone is replaceable so there is no need to have an overall friendly community.
My issue is with groups consistently making mistakes on the same mechanics for longer than an hour. If you can't consistently get to phase 2 on any boss with a group you may as well leave because it's a lost cause.
So you want an MMO that's difficult AND you're a paypig? EVE Online is just your thing.
>ff14 unironically has a better sense of adventure
It's a fucking on-rails story that you follow. There's literally NO adventure because the game holds your hand.
>level 40
kek, why do people do this? complain about lack of difficulty in the fucking tutorial?
try doing some extreme/savage content and cry like a little bitch when you get wiped
Don't you need to be an accountant to play this game? Also getting into a clan is a literal job interview.
Are you fucking inbred? Do you not realize what the fuck your talking about? MMOs are a genre that depend on hundreds of thousands of people playing to be viable while constantly pumping out new fresh content. If any were actually difficult they'd loose out on those casual audiences and only get a fraction of players, and new content would be difficult to design so instead its just about collecting new trash like mounts, titles, pets, outfits, ect. You can't put difficulty up on the fucking cash shop.
MMOs aren't a genre to play for their difficulty, they're basically just fleshed out mobile games since they all have trash combat and are just about time gating shit while giving you tons of trash to collect. That time would be better spent on developing a skill, but that would ACTUALLY be difficult, so you'd rather just lazily piss away your time with a genre made for people who have nothing better to do with their lives.
>adventure only means wandering about a zone doing loosely connected quests
>modern MMO
>challenging
lmao no
You're better off into looking at old games that are either still operating or have private servers. Any MMO released after 2005 is going to be casual shit.
>There's literally NO adventure because the game holds your hand.
>implying the story isn't the adventure
>implying the fact that you don't have the hard and fast separation of end game and levelling doesn't create a much better flow for "this is your characters journey"
You're basically handheld in vanilla unless you hit a couple of weird points where the areas were just badly designed, or you go and do retarded shit anyway. WoWbabies are just delusional casuals that couldn't hack a real early-mid 2000s MMO.
>buy game
>spend first month of paid subscription plowing through completely braindead unchallenging shit (plus even the story is uninteresting trash that's 90% of fetch some bear asses filler)
but of course, it's a great game since it gets "good" 200 hours in when you get to the epic gamer content where you learn to hate everyone and everyone hates you.
Listen, if you can't get invested in the plot you may as well drop the game or boost.
>you can't physically access 80% of the things you see in this screenshot
I hate how small and instanced the FFXIV zones are. Also invisible walls everywhere. thanks PS3.
it would be a lot easier to be invested if the mainquest wasnt in the cycle of 1 important storypiece quest followed by 5 quests of detour trash padding.
If money is no object just make your own game. faggot.
Yes it is unfortunately the weakest portion of the game but it does set up a lot of stuff for later even if it's a slog.
Maybe you're just shit at your job, you arrogant, judgemental prick
Get to level cap in XIV then find a group to do synced no echo minimum item level Gordias/Midas and Ultimate Coil/Ultimate Ultima runs.
The people in this thread defending ffxiv's shitty excuse of levelling content is something else.
No freedom, no challenge, "just get to endgame lol" is not a valid answer, the game should be engaging from the start.
>No freedom
What are you talking about, you can do all kinds of sprawling stuff as time goes on. Even 1-50 gives you a trickle of new things to do pretty consistently.
Why would you expect challenge when you haven't even finished leveling and are doing content that was made literally half a decade ago?
THEN FUCKING REMOVE THE CONTENT IF IT'S "IRRELEVANT" AND "OBSOLETE" AND THROUGHOUTLY GARBAGE
Literally no one wants levelling to be challenging, they never have. It's there to be a tutorial to the game and your class and to be a relatively painless way to get a feel for the game.
They could do to trim the fat, and they are dong.
>Literally no one wants levelling to be challenging
as in current playerbase doesnt want leveling alternative characters/jobs to be challenging. modern mmos are all about pandering to the current playerbase at the expense of making the experience for new players horrendous shit.
>ARR MSQ "compacting" confirmed in live letter for 5.3 at the earliest
>They had plans to change Praetorium and Meridianum to be a regular trial alongside Raubhan but was scrapped earlier
what are your hopes lads
75 era FFXI Private server is our only hope at this point.
Not gonna list the one I play on because no shill, but it's super fun and has a high pop.
And people keep asking why mmo's are a dead genre
>just remove the story lmao
How about you just stop being a faggot?
>dude why do I have to play through the ENTIRE GAME to fight Vergil, this game is shit. They should just remove this stuff
We all know its Nasomi , or Eden if you're a contrarian fag.
Adventure means he wants a hardcore survival game but one that's easy because it has a huge community you can ask for advice from at any time. So basically he wants something akin to heavily modded STALKER or Skyrim but is too pussy to play those
Everyone was new and barely geared enough back in like 2013
Eve.
It's hard for you to understand how real humans view you autistic people, because lacking that ability is part of your condition, but you truly are lacking in the fundamental attributes that separate man from beast. You're like a pig rolling in shit, oblivious to your lack of shame, taste, and common sense.
Because it turns out fights are a lot harder when everyone has gear it was tuned around and not gear 300 levels higher
No MMO has ever been challenging once you get past the metagame of tard wrangling
For the record, it's my belief that leveling IS the primary content of rpgs. An mmo with shit leveling content is a broken rpg. Endgame or not.
Nah, that's just the modern song-and-dance of walking out of AoEs and pressing buttons in order. WoW-likes are more degraded action games than RPGs proper. An old-school MMORPG, one that still rolls the dice to decide what bullshit it's going to fling at you, can still be plenty challenging.
So it's your belief that a glorified tutorial that takes up about 10% of the game's total content is the primary content? Sounds like you might just be retarded.
No they're not, they're just RNG as you said. You just grind a bit to make up lost exp and try again when the game fucks you over and most didn't have very punishing RNG compared to games that are actually challenging on that front like rougelikes or SRPGs.
>I'm a retard who's only played modern mmos where leveling takes 1 hour
Okay sure.
I've played older MMOs too, and in those games leveling was the majority of the content. You're literally stating the majority of the content isn't important because you only care about the tutorial.
Eve. I'm just winding down from a 3 year stretch. There's nothing else like it. I need a break though. I'm totally ready for some WoW Classic.
>wipe to a boss encounter
>lose a real-time week's worth of profit and hours of EXP grinding
>on top of being locked out for another week
>somehow this is not punishing
Why is almost every FC name either really edgy or self fellating? Its always "Blood Feasters" and "[Character Name]'s Legion/Army/Etc."
The only mmorpg I've played that was "challenging" was Tera, at least from a tanking and healing standpoint in dungeons. You have to block attacks, not like most mmorpgs where you facetank and it's the healers problem, on tera you mitigate your own damage.
the problem is the leveling is boring as fuck
Like I said the hard part was tard wrangling
Once you succeeded at that you were not going to wipe to a boss in an old school MMO since they were all braindead simple compared to real games due to the limitations of internet speeds at the times they were made. Now compare that to a roguelike where you're extremely likely to wipe constantly and you lose all of your progress permanently every time you do
It's a problem that's being talked about in the community, the ilvl sync algorithm hasn't been properly updated for the level 80 stat increases. When played in the release window, levels 30-50 (1-30 can be considered the tutorial) were far more challenging than they are today.
If you really want to know what it was like back then, grab a few friends and do the content at minimum ilvl. It still won't be 100% similar because of skill changes, but it'll nerf you to the absolute lowest.
>wipe in raid during high end progression
>guild loses thousands of golds worth of consumables + repair bills
even vanilla wow was punishing although not nearly to the extent of eq
>MMO
>challenging
Ain't happening. The only kind of challenge you'll find in these games is finding 7 other players that can obey "do-or-die" mechanics.
I found that most people are pretty understanding about deaths if it’s your first time or you haven’t played in a while. Just ask for help if you have trouble with a mechanic.
I have never died in a blind run of a dungeon except when I was greeding extra attacks in
Maybe you're just a retard who lacks basic pattern recognition skills
>since they were all braindead simple compared to real games due to the limitations of internet speeds at the times they were made.
but that's wrong you fucking dip
FF11's combat system alone put many roguelikes to shame in terms of mechanical depth
>follow the mathed out gear guide by the community then spam your auto attacks forever
>more depth than roguelikes
lol
Why do people get so anal about guild/FC shouting in this game? God forbid somebody use the chat functions at all in a city hub. It's always Limsa people too, I've genuinely just stopped going there to shout.
t. zergtard
That's the point, every other mmo was more punishing than WoW when it came out. WoW was literally a step in casualization.
You're still in the tutorial. Heal Arum Vale at like 47 and then come back.
1 step towards casualization is isnt bad if it means more players for the genre. but I agree it's a slippery slope and look at mmos now: instanced content with teleports everywhere and other "quality of life" drivel. it's not even a slope anymore, the genre fell off a cliff a decade ago.
>non-sprout tank pulls the entire first room
Why would somebody subject us to this?
Wow is still the hardest mmo. I highly doubt you can do mythic raiding. People barely can.
People who complain wow is too easy are retards. It's harder now than its ever been. And no vanilla was not difficult its extremely easy compared to mythic raiding right now.
If you spend your time in LFR, playing tranny 14, or just doing world quest of course it is going to be too easy. You need to join a mythic raid team and commit to it. There isn't even 1 alliance guild that has done the entire new raid in mythic difficulty.the difficulty is there, but it's not what you actually want moron. If toy wanted difficulty you would have found it. You are so used to instant gratification in games you wouldn't even touch difficulty in them now unless a reward was given.
I play mmos for the content. if I can see the same content on normal difficulty as I can see in mythic there is literally no point in doing higher difficulties. I'd consider doing mythic if they made mythic exclusive content, like they did with that new dungeon. thats a huge step towards the right direction.
>And no vanilla was not difficult its extremely easy compared to mythic raiding right now.
t. never even stepped into naxx 40.
I think the focus on questing did more damage than any other mechanic. It incentivizes single player content which is the complete antitheses to MMORPGs. It led to the mass focus on story content and daily gating which is utter cancer. Honestly group grinding was more fun to me than questing could ever be, its glorified single player chores instead of being like old quests which were more puzzles.
Then toy answered your own question moron. You want content not difficulty. Mmo content goes dry quick and just keep repeating the same shit or collecting shit in the game.
Both tranny14 and wow have loads of content to shit through especially in transmog collecting, mounts, and pets with 15 years of content.
So the question isn't even you want content. You want certain content. My suggestion is stop being a lazy asshole and find many games to play and get out of your retarded comfort zone of mmos for content being sucked 15 bucks a month to ERP in tranny 14 or troll in trade chat in wow.
It want difficult either. Players were just retards. Plus nax was only the last 4months of wow's life ina span of 2 years time. So admitting the game was Only difficult for less than 20% of the games life doesn't do you any favors moron.
>WoWfag jumps in to tell everyone to play his dumb freakshit game yet again despite OP making it clear he has played that same song and dance before
Fuck off retard.
can you reiterate your point without the retarded schizo rambling and buzzwords? I cant understand what youre trying to say.
OP is also a retard and doesn't know what he wants and is sub 80 IQ
>he doesn't want difficulty
>he only wants certain content
OP is most likely a depressed faggot with damaged dopamine receptors unable to give him joy in games and watches YouTube all day.
How exactly did you gather all of that from his post?
The timing of these post speak volumes... If you really are too dumb to understand his post you probably are 80 IQ.
Mythic raids account for what % of current wow content again? Probably a lot less than 20%, rest of the game is piss easy.
>So admitting the game is only difficult for less than 20% of the game's content doesn't do you any favors moron.
MMOs can't be challenging because the entire business model relies on appealing to as many people as possible.
Having a functioning brain helps...
It can easily turn to 95% of your content moron. If you raid at that level majority of the other content is no longer relevant.
>payon dungeon
>home
>least it was till I spammed dead branches
Some don't. Plenty of old school mmos were also tuned for group content making playing solo or in small groups quite challenging. Unless your definition of challenging is like ninja gaiden type of challenging, then I'd say no mmo has ever done that to my knowledge. If you do know a mmo that does that, feel free to tell me, I would at least be interested in knowing it.
So admitting the game is only difficult for less than 5% of the game's content doesn't do you any favors moron.
UNLEASH DILATIMA
taking a long time to get 7 other retards to jump the same rope correctly doesn't mean a game is difficult
a single player game with the same gameplay would be a complete joke
>tank pulls half of the first room
>dies instantly
>I turn around and run back to the spawn spot
>when the reviving players come back, they attack the mobs I brought with me and keep on dying because they're too dumb to wait and regroup
Never gets old
Are you a fucking moron? Do you treat the devil may cry games the same? Does the hardest difficulty not count because it's just the same content only harder? This is how games have functioned for years and you are just being a retard troglodyte about it. Your excuses are weak. Harder content is there for people but the honest truth is you are NOT GOOD ENOUGH to do it. Right now you can become the first alliance guild to beat all the bosses in world of warcraft. The difficulty is there for you! You don't want difficulty, you are subjective to what counts as content, and your reward process is fucked.
FFXIV:A Cash Shop Reborn
Imagine playing WoW or it's glorified Single Player clone. OP just invest in single player games, MMOs have nothing to offer.
Everquest.
Patch notes when
Clearly you never played Persona 3.
MARIN MOTHERFUCKING KARIN.
WHOOPS, GOT CHARMED BY THE FINAL BOSS, BETTER CAST DIARAHAN ON IT, LOL.
World of warcraft did that with the mage tower content. It was extremely difficult, however they have not added anything similar to it in BFA. True any retards can be carried through hard content. But a certain percentage of those people need to be good players still. Mythic raiding can only take max 3 retards.
>What's a good MMO
EVE Online.
>that's actually fucking challenging
EVE Online.
>I played WoW
Kill yourself.
>you think you don't but you do
Nothing in FFXIV is difficult.
Compared to FFXI, it's a fucking joke.
>I'm trying FFXIV now, I'm level 40 SCH and there's just no challenge whatsoever in anything
You're still at a low level, doing low level content. You won't get the more challenging raids until you reach Heavensward, but by now everyone's OP with high level gear so you won't need to worry too much about mechanics unless the party sucks and has no idea what they're doing. Catch up with the other players. If you want super challenging content, you'll need to do savage trials.
This, FF14 is a glorified single player rpg with a chat room attached that you play monthly for.
I bet if they allowed players to keep their house plots when they unsub the games sub count will drop dramatically. Yes you heard me right. You loose your house when you unsub. Good luck getting another plot.
No, but saying a game is difficult while discarding, by your own words, 95% of the content is absolutely fucking moronic. Especially when you are forced to go through that 95% to even get to the 5% of difficult content.
>You won't get the more challenging raids until you reach Heavensward
user... with the changes to stats and potency, all fights before ShB are now a joke
You say that like housing isn't a giant money sink for autists in the first place.
>Savage
>Challenging
Good joke senpai
Jesus, and I thought wow was bad forcing people to sub to play the classic beta. They hold people hostiage with the shitty housing system.
Honestly, it's not even 95% of the content. You forget that a good chunk of that content is old and not done anymore.
I'd wager to say that like 70% of the shit in the game is stuff you need to do, and braindead. 25% of it requires a brain, but nobody does it anymore unless they can brain-off it. 5% of the content requires a brain, but is only done at the end of the game.
To make things funnier, their director promised to never introduce a demolition system and then proceeded to add it in.
>move to an insanely low pop server because you can say slurs in the chat
hmm let me think about it
I don't think anyone plays ff14 for the difficulty. People are subbed because
>they have a house
>erp
>waifu dress up
The games gearing system doesn't even offer build variety. The hardest content is savage which is equal to normal raid difficulty in wow.
When is maint over!
>expects challenge during the fucking leveling grind
Laugh at this man.
There's plenty of MMOs that have offered engaging content whilst leveling.
It's just modern brain-dead MMOs that don't.
OId School Runescape
You just aren't a part of that 5%...you are the bottom feeders.
Don't forget 2 mediocre stories that shine compared to other MMOs.
More like laugh at you, your brainwashed brain cannot even fathom that old MMOs were difficult from the very start.
Name some.
Tedium isn't difficulty
Which one?
MMO's have no challenge by design, you're better off finding a singleplayer game or maybe another type of multiplayer game if you need people with you that much.
this
And yet SWTOR still has the best mmo story. And you can play it for free...
If you retarded retards want good story but don't care about mmo elements play SWTOR. If SWTOR came out now it will be extremely popular due to all the story faggots now. Imagining subbing to an mmo for the story.
I haven't even played wow in years, you absolute retard. Regardless it doesn't make my argument move an inch. If you pretend a game is hard by discarding most of its easy content, then it's simply not hard.
There are literally bosses in FFXI which only ever got killed once in the years they were around.
You said engaging leveling content, my dude. Bosses aren't leveling content as far as I know.
Levelling 0-75 in FFXI was probably more difficult than anything in FFXIV.
The level 30 storyline quests required 18 people and would take several hours, with a pretty strong chance of failure.
desu I love the general structure of MH, but I wish it had magic and wizards and shit. I just wanna fireball some monsters with a team of friends.
Brainwashed.
k. Anything else?
>hurr I pretend I'm hardcore
I remember this. Titan too.
Guild wars
Modern MMOs are tedious too though. You MMO drones are the brainwashed ones thinking your casual timewasters are real videogames.
don't sign your posts
Mmo needs to appeal to most people brainlet. They aren't going to make everything in the game difficult. If you are too dumb to seek out the difficult content that is your own fault and stupidity. Many players don't care for difficulty... Like you.
>FFXIV story is bad
>SWTOR story is good
Holy fucking dog shit we are reaching a level of contrarian i thought never was possible. I know you wowfags hate FF 14 but sucking off Tortanic is really a new, if it has a good story it would have taken wow place instead of FF14 doing it
GOTTA GET THAT SUB MONEY FROM TRANNIES SOME HOW! WHERE ELSE ARE THEY GOING TO DIALATE!?
So, we agree that wow isn't difficult then. The fact that you keep throwing weakass baseless personal attacks sure says more about you than it does about me.
I hate how MMO's seem to HATE any form of PVP these days. No more world PVP. No more ganking. Hell, even the battlegrounds in most MMO's tend to be this bland 5v5 uninspired shit instead of the craziness of WoW back in Classic, BC and WotLK to some degree.
I want to PVP in something new. I don't get what people want in Classic. It's the same game we all played. I played it for hundreds of hours. And I played the sequels for just as long. Why would I want to go back to that? I've done it all over again on Private Servers too. I don't see the appeal of going back to that.
I think that's the problem with a lot of MMO's these days. There is no real threat or challenge. Or they attempt to put it in, then realize they need to appeal to all the little idiot kiddies who can't put two and two together, so they dumb down other parts of it which just turn it into something like GW2 or ESO.
I've been trying to get into other games which hold similar appeal. Similar, but not the same. Hunt: Showdown is one; but I see no reason for me to go out and hunt a monster myself, when I can just kill the Hunters who kill the monsters when they try to board the ships.
Dead branches got turbofucked with Lighthalzen Biolab mobs. The troll in me loved it because Azoth+Hylozoist cards meant free trolling, but the reasonable human in me wonders if it may have been a mistake.
Speaking of, been on a couple private servers where the GMs sperged at me for farming high traffic areas with that setup. Most of the time they conceded that it was within the rules but I was a massive twat. The others just banned me because I was "irreversibly hurting the server".
I miss the amount of fuckery you could commit in older mmos. Online games these days are just so sterile.
How did China do it
This is objectively correct
It seems a lot of people are of the same mind. Modern MMO's are just too "vanilla". You can't actively do things against others. You can't go out of your way to hurt others. But it works both ways.
Some of my fondest memories in WoW was ganking people who previously ganked me. The achievement of that still makes me smile.
>1 Double Chicken Burger
>1 Vegan Mushroom Burger
>1 5-piece Chicken Nuggets
>2 Original Recipe Chicken
>1 2-piece New Orland Chicken Wings
>1 Old Beijing Spicy Duck Roll
>2 Pepsi (Large)
>2 Peach Oolong Tea (Large)
PER PERSON TO GET THE MOUNT
It's actually four times that, because it was a four people meal to get 1 mount.
how much is that in total in burgerbucks?
at once? or in like a point/card/stamp system?
You had to eat all of this x4 at once.
pcgamer.com
And apparently employees would add shit to the meal if you looked away or something?
At least that's what some of the translated chinese posts seemed to imply. Wtf was going on with that KFC deal?
At once.
Also
The picture actually depicts the correct amount of food you needed to eat in one seating to get 1 mount.
>Play a grind genre.
>Want challenge.
Pick one.
Some guy said he went to the bathroom and came back and they replenished his entire meal lmfao
literally how
Be American.
>game is literally entirely instance based except town which just acts as a lobby
>call it an mmo
As I said, it was meant to be a 4 people promotion. It wouldn't have been so hard if people just went with 3 other people.
that's the point. you pander to the hyperautistic whales at the expense of new players. why make the leveling process engaging for a new player that maybe pays for month or two in sub if youre lucky when you have a well paying autist you can keep happy by making leveling his additional jobs braindead and fast.
The only MMO that ever had actually difficult levelling was Lineage 2, and people are too casual for that game. I don't know what you expect, you're SUPPOSED to get these levels, that's the point, making it a chore or something that's hard is a ridiculous notion and it only even half worked as a concept in L2.
I didnt use the word difficult or challenging. I said engaging. because ARR in xiv is about as engaging as watching grass grow. theres 0 threat anywhere because if there was roadblocks in a main quest you cant skip it would destroy the entire game. but that in turn also waters down the story since there is no stakes in anything. you know everything the game throws at you you will prevail not by your own strenght or abilites but just because the game allows you to only win. hell you have to do more work trying to fail solo duties than to win them.
>I'm level 40 SCH
Everything's way too easy because everybody is overlevelled for the content, and honestly what I hate the most about the Shadowbringers rebalancing is that low level content is a fucking snorefest with the low amount of skills you have
>hell you have to do more work trying to fail solo duties than to win them.
That's how it should be early on. You're supposed to progress. What do you think it would be fun if you had a tight enrage on a solo duty and ended up replaying it like 4 times?
Play the agent, sith warrior, and bounty hunter for amazing story telling tranny.
>sith warrior
>amazing story
A-am I being baited? I played that when it was out and the story was fucking nothing.
If a game has hard difficulty and you actively choose not to do it that is your own fault. Your entire play time can be committed to doing the harder content.
MMOs aren't challenging unless you do the very tiptop endgame content to where the devs make it so the rewards are not even worth the effort. Your grandma has to be able to experience all the content, she pays the same monthly fee remember.
>tight enrage on a solo duty and ended up replaying it like 4 times?
it teaches you to try different things? teaches you to communicate and ask what youre doing wrong? like I said this model wouldnt even work with the game because the mainquest structure itself is extremely limiting and overall bad design for this genre of games.
mythic raids and mythic+ dungeons in wow
Back in ARR, stuff was quite a bit more difficult. Not so much the overworld but trials and dungeons would frequently blow people out of the water. Nowadays, most people know what they are doing and the gear scaling just compensate for everything else, I personally feel it is in fact far too high.
>teaches you to communicate and ask what youre doing wrong?
>in a solo duty
There are some reasonably tough solo duties later on, but you don't want those anywhere near the start. You don't want to stonewall players just starting out on your game, that's a ridiculous notion that totally goes against the expectations of MMOs. Half the people that play these games do it in a meditative way.
You don't want your new players feeling like they have to memorise a 4 phase solo fight to beat it out because they'll assume it only gets harder; players are primed to expect easy > harder.
Literally not a single dungeon has anything close to an instant death
No traditional MMO is at all difficult. Go play PvP Rust, Ark, or Conan if you want a challenge. If you are completely autistic and enjoy Excel, Eve is also an option.
>this is yoshi's scheme to eradicate chinks
based
>rest of the game is piss easy
not mythic+ dungeons
You don't play mmorpgs for the challenge, since they have to be accessible to almost everyone.
Go play a fighting game if you want a challenge.
is there a single group of (((((people))))) more mentally challenged and stockholm syndromed than mmo sperms?
"i-i-i-it's challenging because i played it. me."
Damn based Nigga
die.
>>in a solo duty
yeah asking for advice in a /world chat and receiving tips in return in an mmo. I know what a novel concept.
I don't think EVE qualifies. It's just that you are facing autists who literally put years into the game already. As a new player you will literally never catch up no matter what you do.
Whoa momma
>implying world chat won't just tell you to read a guide/watch a video/git gud.
>well if FF14 had one.
What in the goddamn?
Okay, this is epic
So did Hydaelyn split the world into 13 shards and the source because those who summoned her made her the opposite of Zodiark? AKA, where Zodiark needed sacrifice to do anything, Hydaelyn just needed people to live, and thus she split the world to get 14 times as many people living and powering her?
This isn't XIV thread, not even a stealth, go somewhere else.
It's an MMO retard. Do you know how they work?
You don't even need to reach level 80 to do hard content. In 10 levels you can do ARR Extreme fights and Coil which will be plenty challenging.
What a weird thing to take from that.
It's not Zodiark needs sacrifices, he needs Aether, and people dying makes a lot of Aether, it's especially good if they hold a strong belief at the time of death, or a powerful emotion. Hydaelyn was made specifically to contain Zodiark, and, apparently, specifically to split the world for reasons unknown, presumably to stop anyone even thinking of feeding mana to Zodiark again.
>$1000 and $3000 aren't enough for a lifetime subscription
This has to be taking the piss
Free login campaign.
That's still a massive amount of food for one person. It's called a family meal for a reason, and you had to eat 4 family meals.
Then you'd have to do the entire thing 3 more times on different days if your friends also wanted the mount.
That's how food challenges usually work. It's fucked up, but they want to make sure people aren't spitting up food into the toilets.
that was quick, the last one wasn't even that long before the shadowbringers release
Not all of us are retards who handicap themselves by leveling warrior outside of dungeons AND not against green-level mobs with minimal avoidance
remember to buy 60 days game time so that you have active sub when cla.. I mean to get a free Fantasia!
If you mix it up or go light side sith warrior it is maybe one of the most well written characters in any rpg. If you go full edgy dark side it's generic garbage. The secret is to do a little bit of dark and light. Kill a fucker if he is annoying for example.
Treat vette you waifu amazing yet tell her to kill her mothers slave master. There is so many unique outcomes in the story. Go mostly good and make a few evil choices on some shit.
>he plays an rpg but hates story
you are the most obnoxious, cancerous people in any mmorpg. you clearly don't belong, yet you hang on anyway, and claim the people who enjoy stories don't belong. maybe Fortnite and Apex are more your speed. Go be AIDS somewhere else.
Ah, a fellow tard wrangler.
I literally decided to meme it up by making my character look as much like Picard as possible and play good. It was a non story.
Anyone else have no idea what job to play?
Don't go full retard good or full retard dark. These games reward you for adding spice.
>let your rival live the first time
>he attacks one of your team mates a 2nd time
>kill him in cold blood
Best part of my story is I was mostly a good guy except to those fuckers on alderaan. They were the most annoying cunts I have ever seen and their whole planet deserved to be blown up later.
You want to go a Grey route for good story telling in the game.
You don't understand Eve. Fleets go out all the time, in fact, most of the time in cheap, low level ships.
I think we look for very different things in our stories.
Do you know how I can tell you are one of those tards that guy was talking about?
That was one of my favorite sonic &sasrt map
Is SMN that bad?
No
Not like those players can't buy a few millions of those cheap as shit ships if they wanted to and unless they removed skill "grinding", I think I'll stand by what I said.
Which Light server is the best?
I just remember another Great story point.
>on the hunt for this bounty hunter that is killing sith
>get more money if you bring him in alive
>it's a good choice but at the same time a bad choice because the trandoshin being in chains is the biggest insult in his culture
>decide to fuck the money and giving him a clean death respecting his wishes
>vette hated you for doing it
>no benefits except the sith warrior respecting the trandoshins last wishes
Fuck the haters. SWTOR has solid story.
>fight him for the first time
>this ost
>Yea Forums has unironic TORtanic defenders now
Go back to resetera
That's, really basic bitch shit.
You're saying you can't catch up. I'm educating you on the premise that you don't need to.
but what will he do if he doesn't get mining barge V on his main?!
Also injectors are a thing now.
I didn't think Shiva would be topped for trial music, then Ravana comes.
>didn't think Final Steps of Faith would be topped
>The Dying Gasp
HIGH ON HIGH I STAND
GAZING DOWN TO SEE
Ravana isn't even that good compared to what comes later. Fiend, Equilibrium, Rise, Exponential Entropy, Wayward Daughter, Amatsu Kaze, Worm's Tail, Sunrise, eScape, all pure kino
I don't know how soken keeps hitting it out of the park.
Diet of fried chicken
Square has such a culture for top tier music I imagine all the people they work with must be really good at calling out when something doesn't hit the right notes and the like.
Me. I'm leveling all of them to find out. I got the prefer buff so it's been pretty quick so far.
NO one complained the story was shit in SWTOR retard. It's just an awful mmo. Similar to Shitty ass FF14 now. You should give it a shot if you love single player mmos so much.
This is when I stopped playing, just right after ARR. Every time I think about coming back people tell me I have to slog through over 100 more shit quests. Kinda don't feel like doing that but I'm so close so I might just pick a good weekend to kill the rest of ARR off.
They are all shit till level 60. Warning you now.
>NO one complained the story was shit in SWTOR retard.
Yes they did, because the best it ever gets to is "decent" and it's plagued with Bioware's trash dialogue.
Half the reason people imo can deal with the down beats in FF14 is that Koji's team writes good fucking dialogue.
They were. Most of them are 60 now. Trudging to 70. And hopefully I don't kill myself for the 80 stretch.
>100/M
>Only get 6 month sub
Yeah I'd be bored at of my mind too if i was a netflix wowfugee healer like yourself.
>Ignore literally all the sidequests
Might as well boost and skip the story itself if you're skipping story content anyway.
any single player game
The composers for XIII-2 had to do three whole different compositions for one character's theme because they couldn't get it feeling right the first two times. Shit is time consuming for the degree they work at, but it's not like game development halts because the musicians are behind.
Everyone did complain about it. The only praise I've seen was for the agent story and it was alright, while nothing groundbreaking.
WoW changed the entire industry for the worse. People who have not played a pre-WoW MMO should not be allowed to design an MMO or even give an opinion on one.
ESO
People complained about the jedi stories.
The game was shit because the animations were horrible, everyone is a reskin human, ran like shit on the hero engine, end game was non existant, pvp was awful, and the classes played like ass.
You can bitch about SWTOR for many things, the story was fine for the most part. And yes the agent story is God tier.
>the hardest content is savage
Wrong that would be ultimate
I fell asleep during agent story. What happen?
This, play ESO and don't look at any guides. Level and make your character the way you want to. At max level change your build to what is optimal. But the leveling experience can be entirely a unique experience every time. The game isn't difficult by any standards but it doesn't hold your hand like a retard in FF14. You are thrown to the wolves in possibly making a shit character.
I literally don't understand the appeal of FFXIV, why would you put in dozens of hours of work when every level cap increase just levels the playing field and puts you on the same level as everyone else.
>Ultimate so easy people just pay for clears and the party is down one man
"Modern" MMO needs a new genre classification since they are very rarely massively-multiplayer in a given instance, at least not without shitting itself.
Where is your ultimate raid this expansion than??? Oh I'm sorry there isn't one...
modded minecraft
take the gregtech pill
Define challenging.
OP is a retard. Most games have hard content in them. But he doesn't take part of the content and only consumes the easy content and then bitches it is too easy. A retard. He would bitch FF14 or wow is too easy while never touching an ultimate or a mythic. That kind of retard.
Define a challenge. Do you want to play a game where u need to time ur attacks and dodges perfectly and get heavily penalized for not being gut enough? Or maybe u prefer being tested if u know Shakespire's works? I'm gonna drop a redpill on you: videogames are either childlish or retardely difficult. Get a new hobby
Mostly because is correct, and you can't really call the game a MMO anymore. And that's not subjective, the director himself claims they want to move away from the genre and call it an online experience.
The progression is handled more like a mobile game, where you log-in for the newest content release, catch-up and do it, then unsubscribe until the next event release. I guess the biggest difference is that the currency itself is globally capped instead being unlocked by a paywall. But yes, either way, the currency is also fleeting in use.
This model is typically only tolerable in small doses, so when people post "Unsubscribe", they are only half-joking.
Story and pretending to be a catgirl. The story in the expansions is far better than most singleplayer FF titles.
Plus, there's just a lot to do inbetween that. Crafting is pretty complex, housing is complex, and there's a million side activities like all the saucer shit, hunts, logs and a ton of other stuff.
haha ikr imagine playing a game for fun lmao buncha nerds, having higher numbers than the other people is the only appeal to video games amirite haha
I always assumed they made your model invisible for pieces like that.
you mean raids you gigantic faggot? endgame content
retard
Cant you consume the story in 1 weeks time?
And then play 2nd life for free so you can ERP as a faggot cat girl? Color me this... Doesn't it sound really stupid to sub to an mmo for a single player story?
BDO. It's got other problems but it's challenging in more ways than one.
there is a second line of text in the post you quoted
you should try reading it
Star Citizen dogfightning is as challenging as you want it to be.
Any will do really except twintania. That's a bot infested shithole.
Fuck people who never pass on Eden normal stuff. They only roll for what they want and keep everything else open just in case they don't win.
Also fuck people who roll on everything because they don't care what they get. You might as well not bother with the first three fights at all after your first time, you shitheads.
How come squeenix seemingly can't or won't do shit about the fucking torrent of bots on every server? Do they not have the tools to detect multiboxing chinese farmers teleporting underneath the map?
they dont give a shit until enough people unsub because of it that makes it more of a lose than banning chinks
The bots too pay for subs
Tips on playing Scholar? Thinking of trying it since I have SMN at 80 and I never touched a healer since literally 2.0.
They sell gil right? I guess it's so profitable that buying non stop ARR codes is worth it.
>small ass servers are filled with bots
>thinking square gives a shit
It's like 15 bucks these days.
I'd assume it will be out in a future patch
They don't "pay" for subs how you thinbk they would. The chinks often use stolen creditcards and when said cards naterally get charged back because they're reported stolen SE will lose money while still having handled out a code/sub. And they are doing something about it it' just that you can't stop it. Chinks are like a hydra. kill 100 bots and 200 more take it's place.
Why do you people like CJ but hate all other black people?
I didn't read any of the comments. MMORPGs aren't challenging. They are THE bing bing wahoo number go up genre for stupid people.
Start with low level dungeons and slowly work your way up to get a feel for the class.
k. You can leave now.
Yup. I've always thought MMOs are by far the worst type of video game. Even worse than stuff like fifa or mobile games.
There's more to video games than just hardcore hard and stupid people easy.
The main point of MMOs is the part of playing a game with large amounts of people in a consistent world, not to be "hard".
Back when MMO was a niche genre, people actually understood that and acted accordingly in the game.
Now it's just a bunch of wannabe hardcore autist gamers that rush to the finish line, wine a bit about the game and then leave for the next big thing.
Fuck you.
The worst are all-caps clan tags, I saw "" for a dragoon-themed FC once and was almost shocked it wasn't .
Because CJ was an actual character and not a virtue signaling pandering to sjws/tumbler kind of character. He's a product of a different age.
WE FALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
>Fuck people who never pass on Eden normal stuff.
Lucklet seething
If you read you are only half right.
Majority of people who play mmos want a nice casual easy experience. Majority of the content is catered to shitters. However both games mentioned have extremely difficult modes of play that people just choose not to consume. World of warcraft currently has mythic raiding and ff14 currently has... Nothing for this audience.
People don't normally play mmos for difficulty. I would even go as far as to say mmo players are not "gamers". They normally only play their mmo and nothing else. Really difficult content is in wow at the moment but it is extremely difficult.
Did you even read the op? And MMOs were better back then because social media platforms didnt exist. You would login to Wow just to talk with your friends. Now you do not have to.
Games that revolve around lootboxes as their core mechanic are on a whole another level.
Why was CJ so likeable?
>Now it's just a bunch of wannabe hardcore autist gamers that rush to the finish line, wine a bit about the game and then leave for the next big thing.
And we have our friend Jeff "Tigole Biddies" Kaplan to thank for that. God what a fucking cancer that shitstain is.
That'd be the fault of Heavensward skill-pruning, exacerbated by Stormblood skill-pruning and removal of cross-class
>And MMOs were better back then because social media platforms didnt exist. You would login to Wow just to talk with your friends. Now you do not have to.
That's completely false. Instant messengers were pretty big back then. There was no need to log into a game to talk to your friends. The audience back then was just that much better than it is today.
The Doom mechanic is pretty much that
>Luck
This isn't just about luck. Everyone has to wait for those assholes not passing the majority of the loot.
I rolled on everything on the first week. Got fuck all except a full set of trinkets.
Only “challenging” mmo is cutting edge wow progression until you realize it’s just DDR: Coop.
>Inb4 pvp
Worse than dedicated gameS.
I know a couple of real successes with downie kids but as whole you're sadly correct. I feel for those parents, man
>World of warcraft currently has mythic raiding and ff14 currently has... Nothing for this audience
I haven't done mythic or savage/ultimate, but I would assume the key difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW was made solely for PC with add-ons in mind. FFXIV's content has to be clearable by people playing on console with no modding capabilities, while WoW's hardest content is being designed around the assumption that everyone has the essential add-ons installed.
The challenge lies in finding people who aren't completely fucking retarded to play the game with.
Show me a dungeon that has it, and even then it's piss easy to deal it. The only difficulty in dungeons is making too big of a pull really. I've never had to vote abandon a dungeon
What tank should I play? Been thinking about trying them out for a while.
Who else suffered just so they could say they climbed yoshi p's tower of terror?
sure drink water, get crited because youre sitting, YOU ARE playing pvp right faggot?
Whatever you do don't start with gunbreaker. Choose either pld or war and level them from level 1 so you can actually learn how to tank.
Qarn, how do you not know about that?
Obviously it's not hard but oneshot mechanics certainly do exist.
First boss of Sunken Temple. I agree that it's not hard to deal with, but it is technically an insta-kill mechanic in that it will kill you if ignored regardless of stats, healing, skills, etc.
>selfdestructs
>rezz me pls
>Stand on a platform
>doom dispells
Wow so hard
Remember to /handover to your minion daily.
Both of those posts agreed that it wasn't hard you dipstick
>play FFXI
>see a Taurus enemy in XIV
>already know it's going to Doom me
>see glowing platforms
FFXIchads win again.
Qarn's first boss also has two adds that will insta-kill the tank if at least one isn't killed.
reminder that if your "mmo" has any of the following its automatically trash
>main story
>cutscenes
>instanced quests
>instanced raids
>server shards
>zero or minimal penalty for death
Post mythic achievements.
I don't want to ever again read a single post in this retarded board about WoW being easy if you're not going to post your Cutting Edge achievements.
I made a lalafel friend. I didn't know they gently swayed when they sit down it's so cute
Boomers need to die
Correct. Wow makes raids with raid helper add on's in mind. FF14 makes raids without this in mind and is much easier in comparison.
Because of this however more is expected for a high end wow player than a high end FF14 player. Wow has an extremely elitist hardcore raiding community. In FF14 the raids never get to the same level.
It has been over 2 to 3 weeks in wow and still not one alliance guild has cleared all the bosses in the highest difficulty.
well they generally did but this piece has the helmet attached to the chestpiece aka you cannot wear a helmet when you wear that chest.
wouldnt suprise me if its the same with certain robes but they are rare and bad looking anyway
dilate
Tranny suicide rate is quite high. So the average FF14 will die before a boomer.
if anything is trash it's you for shitting up the thread with that garbage hottake of yours. It's an mmoRPG of course it will have story and cutscenes you dipshit boomer
there are none and there were never any challenging MMOs. Old school MMO players think they used to be hard because they're socially braindead and can't interact with human beings without automated matchmaking
Most old mmos are about making your own story...
Subbing to an mmo for a single player story sounds pretty stupid on paper. What is the story for vanilla wow? Fucking nothing except what the player decides.
Absolute Virtue and Pandaemonium Warden say that you're a dumb zoomer faggot and should go stay in WoW instead of continuing to infect the genre with your filth.
> not even at the end of the base game
> game offers no challenge
no shit, retard
>Old school MMO players think they used to be hard because they're socially braindead and can't interact with human beings without automated matchmaking
That doesn't even make sense.
To be fair you actually have to play the game in xiv because you can't let a macro or script do it. So of course the standard has to be lower since the mouthbreathing subhumans that are most of the mmo players have to be able to clear it.
>someone doesn't like wasting 14 hours a day smacking the same mob over and over again, so they must be a tranny
Sorry gramps, but your games are dead for a reason.
Am I the only one who hates story in an MMO. Cutscenes are cancer killing the genre. Modern WoW and FF14 are filled with this shit.
Never take control away from the player to show your stupid shit that I dont give a fuck about.
Go play that then instead retard. And all that ''make your own story'' just ends up as ERP most of time so so much for that nonsense.
Savage and Ultimate are not tuned for the average retard, and WoWfags have the hardest fucking time clearing anything in XIV unless they have call-outs and triggers to carry them. They've lost any ability they might have had to watch the raid and be aware of mechanics on their own.
>The fish got away....
you're actually an undiscovered level of retarded if you can't understand this... you think pressing buttons every 1.5s according to a simple flowchart while stepping out of fire was ever difficult? the only difficult part of endgame content was coordinating with 40 people, which is only slightly challenging because mmo players are incels with no social skills. now the game is designed in such a way that you barely have to communicate which eliminated any difficulty that existed
>its time consuming.
so, every MMORPG?
mmoRPG faggot. Stay away if you don't like rpgs.
>pressing buttons every 1.5s according to a simple flowchart while stepping out of fire
So WotLK was your first MMO and you think you know a god damn thing about old school MMOs.
>Hey guys ik a terrible DM
>Ok so John, now after beating the big bad your character takes a shit and wipes his ass with his corpse
>But my Paladin would never...
>Too bad it's my cutscene
You're the worst
i have played some mmos with decent stories but they are all poorly integrated and terribly paced. like, i've been playing ff14 and I WANT to enjoy the story but it's so fucking slow and at odds with how the game wants you to rush to max level
>game wants you to rush to max level
It really doesn't.
>after beating the big bad your character takes a shit and wipes his ass with his corpse
What MMORPG does this?
Not the games for you and people like you.
Oldschool mmos were ALL ABOUT being social. It's modern gaming that has become completely antisocial.
Just look at your way of talking. You present yourself as a 6 year old throwing a tantrum. But you're completely unaware of that, because you've apparently never learned how to act socially. MMOs can't function anymore, because too many people are behaving like you, completely impossible to interact with on a reasonable level, creating an environment of hostility, the exact opposite of what makes MMOs enjoyable.
Sounds like you are talking about an ultimate in tranny 14.
Ff14. It has my character stand around like a retard while people make speeches. If I had control of my character I'd fight them or tell them to shut up. Oh wait I can't because it's not an RPG.
I don't remember the cutscene where my character took a shit...
I agree. I can't stand story focused garbage anymore. I hate anything where I am watching the screen doing nothing when I play a video game. It is cancer. But most FF14 players are used to this as they most likely play their movie games on the ps4.
I got even pissed off at the new devil may cry with the amount of fucking cutscenes in it.
lol try again faggot. played EQ since I was 7 with my dad who got me into legacy of steel. turned down WoW alpha invites from tigole because we wanted to keep playing and eventually switched to wow in 05. these games are all literally so simple they can be easily grasped by children provided you don't get a fucking anxiety attack the second you hear someone talk to you over vent
>played EQ since I was 7
>got me into legacy of steel
>at age 7
>wow is so easy because it has addons that tell you how to play
>try xiv
>mobs have a long ass windup timer for an attack telegraphed on the fucking ground
i was his fucking kid retard. of course they let me in. it's not like i was on their main roster
Tedium is not difficulty, boomer. I feel rewarded when I complete something difficult, not when I fall asleep at the keyboard after killing my millionth wolf.
WoW still has those add-ons and is designed with those add-ons in mind at the highest level of content. XIV's highest levels of content don't have AoE markers.
You realize Ladybugs aren't the same as raid bosses in ffxiv.
To be fair, it has some, but they're usually a pre-cursor to setting up another mechanic, or something like chicken feet aoe's in e1s.
The E1S markers aren't a warning, they don't come out until the lasers are already shooting. You have to handle the mechanic properly first, and if the lasers are moving through your group then you're fucked anyway.
As a DRG in frontlines, who should I be primarily targeting? My first assumption was healers, but it feels like you need half your team to kill one; are they still worth targeting just to force them to use CDs on themselves instead of their team?
My only previous experience with MMO PvP is GW1, which is a totally different thing.
I didn't specify what I meant but you're right. A lot of those types of markers are for visual feedback. It's too late to do the mechanic properly so it shows you how you fucked up and where the damage applies to.
>When Deathgaze Hollow dooms you and your healers refuse to Esuna
user listen to me. MMOs are dead. Dont bother. WoW killed them.
>frontlines
Does it really matter? Most of the pvp there is just gank squads ganking each other. Doesn't really matter what you do so long as you don't afk.
I can't believe all criticism of a shitty mmo can be deflected by this image
How salty you have to be to make this poor quality collage. It's not even good among similar starter pack images, it legit feels like some turboautist made it.
What's wrong with entry subscription?
What point are you trying to make here with half of these?
Yeah, these shills wont even respond seriously when I call it a weeb game :(
>anons missed the golden age of virtual worlds before mmos became raiding simulators with a one week tutorial
You can never understand what you missed friends, and thats why its never coming back. One day everyone who remembers will die and mmos will go down in history as erp chat rooms where you dodge red circles
Every decent open-world game that wasn't just a mindless mob grindfest is dead. Archeage could've been game of the century if the whole thing wasn't build around gook P2W shit
Meh faggots like you will spout the same shit about todays mmos in 10 to 15 years when the next kind of mmo comes about. Every age has it's nostalgiafags
It's the least of the games problems desu. The gameplay is complete shit
There wont be any more mmos, since you dont need the structure of an mmo to do the kinds of things people do in mmos nowadays. You will see simple lobby based raiding games
Oh, so you're more in the "2.5 second gcd" faction of people that didn't play the game?
Whatever you say boomer.
EVE is the only true MMO
Play Monster Hunter.
All of the high points of an mmo but none of the bullshit.
Combat is skill based too.
Its creators modeled it after Phantasy Star Online's perfection.
Yeah but it unfortunately is based around multiboxing
What's the difference between standard movement and legacy?
>t. rorq miner
People with your mindset are killing EVE and I hope you gas yourself
In legacy you always dash in the direction you press, so instead of backpedaling, your character runs backwards when you press the button.
based
No i'm more of a not stand completely still doing a 5 button rotation and only moving to avoid the red shapes on the ground kind of guy. The raids have no art design to them, you just wait in queue and get dropped into a floating arena with a boss just sitting there with patronizingly easy boss mechanics to the point where only your dps matters. There's no world pvp and what pvp that is there is so shitty wouldn't dare defend it. No sense of community just like current WoW just sitting in town waiting for duty finder, no community events, no enemy faction capitals to raid for fun, just a grinding treadmill. I could go on about how empty the zones are and how cities are just soulless hallways but hey atleast you can be a cute catgirl.
Player mindset is a result of the design of the game.
No, WoW is reviving MMOs, WoW classic will save gaming
You can't design an mmo around really challenging content unless you made it some hardcore pvp survival shit like dark age of camelot. If the game required a lot of technical skill then endgame raids in mmos would be fucking impossible unless you wanted to be a slave to the top raiding guilds.
Standard is for wowfugees and other mmo tryhards that think they'll be big shit when they come to xiv. It's for stubborn people like people who say KB+M is the only way to play even though this fucking game is desgined with controller in mind.
Also this When I see someone backpedaling it's a clear sign they don't know what the fuck they are doing.
Ah guess that's why I couldn't find out, I'm used to always strafing from WoW.
In fact Legacy is a bit weird if A and D are bound to strafing, since S runs but A+S or S+D backpedals diagonally.
You should've left the part that makes it obvious you never played the game for the end instead of putting it right at the start.
>classic will save mmos
>but streamers are killing classic
True, the blame ultimate lies with CCP. But the dumbfucks who inject into rorq multiboxing are also at fault.
Im afraid not, WoW was never a good mmo. It was a very flashy and fun game when it first released, full of novel experiences, and so it tricked people into playing it, but it had none of the things that make mmos good in it, or any of the things that help foster the growth of an organic mmo community.
It was a dead world from the start, and it was only the players at the time, still accustomed to correct mmo society, that gave it some feeling of a true mmo. Classic 2019 will be just as terrible as all wow clones have been.
Go play ESO, unironically. It probably has what you want. Those same things just so happen to be things I absolutely loathe about the game, but maybe you'll enjoy it.
No it won't because only nostalgiafags will enjoy it. And when the novelty of of "of wow remember this? OMG!" runs out. New players wow never played vanilla will think "what is this tryhard shit"
And if it actually is successful I'd wager it might actually ruin gaming as a whole and not just mmos. Devs will see classic and go "look we can release a 10 year old game again and the idiots will buy it". Heck they are already sorta doing this already with remasters and whatnot.
As always boomers have to ruin everything. Firsat the economy and housing market and now the fucking game industry.
Nothing to say. Excellent. I'd appreciate it if you would stop tricking people into playing your shit game in the future.
>of of "of
>look we can release a 10 year old game again
This would improve gaming
20 year old games even more :^)
Imagine counterstrike with the fun of hostage jumping! When using an automatic rifle at close range was nearly impossible and smgs had a role!
I can own a whole new generation of faggots with my UMP
Spend all night learning to code.