Why is this game so unfun exactly?

>pharah is the only fun character
>widow can't quickscope and is slo
>soldier has no range and feels like a peashooter
>mcree has no utility
>ashe feels like a peashooter considering your finger is gonna be jammed down on RMB the entire game just like widow
>hanzo isn't fun because you have to draw the shot before firing
>reaper would be fun if his mobility wasn't so unfun and boring

1. Annoying community
2. Devs pandering to SJWs
3. Half the heroes have a stun ability
4. Unnecessary nerfs/buffs
5. Throwers and cancer players
6. Lootboxes
7. Deathmatch, CTF, and Mystery heroes are the only fun game modes.

It's too shallow.
Everyone plays their heroes the same way and there is no depth you can learn or play around with.
Modes and modes are structured too similarly so it all becomes very samey.

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>Yet when this happens in Overwatch, unless the other side is just really incompetent, you will absolutely lose from somebody using a stun cooldown.
Don't forget they patched the game every time a character was strong enough to do this like genji or brigette

>mobility
This is something I forgot until you mentioned that, but everybody in overwatch is SO FUCKING SLOW. The walk speed is a snail crawl, it's insane. It's not noticeable when you play overwatch all the time because it just becomes "the standard" in your mind, but if you play pretty much any decent FPS and then come back to overwatch you'll feel just how absurdly slow the movement is. This is aggravated by the fact that there are very few faster methods of movement than just walking and those few that do exist are on cooldowns and you also need them available for combat.

Imagine how much more fun Reaper would be to play if his movement speed was faster than most other characters. The only characters in the game that feels like they have decent mobility are Genji and Lucio while using amped up speed boost.

I used to play a lot of Paladins, and the shotgun character in that game had a huge forward leap (ie it would cross an entire battlespace) which made him fun.

>queue for qp, I pick my favorite character
>we get a good team comp, lose but it was a fair game
>queue for comp, I pick my favorite character
>team picks 4 dps + 1 healer
>I leave after the first minute so these masters fuckers have to suffer through the 2 minutes before they can leave and lose their SR

reminder that Pharah is supposed to be similar to Tribes

Pressing Q solves nearly every problem. The few that can't be solved with a single Q CAN be solved with multiple Qs at once.
Therefore it's a simply a game of waiting until everyone can press Q, at which point that stage of the game goes to whoever had the most Qs and the game moves onto the next stage. Repeat about 5 times and the match is over and you requeue.

Blizz keeps making changes and adding things that ruin the game.
>2-2-2 is what will put the final nail in the coffin
>Too many no skill high reward heroes released over the last few years that created a CC meta
>Still no map vote system, you're forced to play the shitty maps
>Arcade mode is the only good part of OW and they keep fucking it up by having modes that literally no one plays when we could have things like no limits all the time.

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Winston has a nice leap and his mobility can feel good too, although the slow walk between jumps is still painful.

Poor translation of how beefy or fragile something is with all the buffs and heals and stuff, so shooting at someone isn't as satisfying as it usually is in fps.

switch point 3 with barrier instead of stun and point 4 with complete lack of balance and you're spot on.

>ramp to launch my balls into her chin at mach 3
Not seeing the problem.

On a serious note, I don't even know which game it is. Another tf2 knockoff?

they're "fixing" this by forcing 2-2-2 comps in quick play. It's gay as fuck but at least you won't have to deal with automatic losses because your team is full of sniper one-tricks

They ruined mercy when they nerfed her ult

The way it's balanced and designed makes victory seem impossible sometimes, which is incredibly frustrating. You can play incredibly well but your own team is off doing god knows what and then a Brigitte comes and bashes your skull in, and you can't ever get any momentum since your team keeps snowballing. Playing it feels like banging your head against a wall way too often.

>2-2-2 is what will put the final nail in the coffin
>Too many no skill high reward heroes released over the last few years that created a CC meta

Nigger how can you complain about a problem and its solution at the same time?

Its kinda repetitive. More coop mission levels or game types would be cool.

Very few heroes rely on shooter ability and instead opt for league of legends ability. Most heroes have very low mobility, health values vary too widely and ability damage numbers vary too widely to succeed as a shooter, the community is toxic, and I don't mean they say nigger in the chat, I mean the community is almost wholely faggot memers who can't go half a round without referencing some 8 month old faggot meme or talking about Reddit. Oh you picked Hanzo? Enjoy the ban

>Too much shields
Exacerbated by every map being "chokepoints the game"

CC has always been the meta in overwatch. I remember when the beta first came out and all the Yea Forums threads were full of people whining about getting instakilled by flashbang and roadhog hook combos

Maps are either chokepoints or big open areas that you have to push while the entire enemy team is hunkered down on a safe high ground freely shooting at you that forces you to either run coordinated dives or farm ultimates to force a win.

It's going to help so fucking much in high ranks. There's a "culture" of sorts where people just buy low level accounts and one trick dps in masters to practice, where if you try to convince them to switch you'll be called "hardstuck," "boosted," or any of their other 3 insults followed by your team begging you to switch
Obviously, they're the one running widow into an orisa hog bunker

You do realize that you can still do CC comp even with 2-2-2
Considering half the roster has some form of CC.

>Atrocious map design with shitty chokepoints and """flanking routes""" so badly placed they defeat their own purpose.
>slow ass movespeed, enjoy crawling from spawn to the action every time
>terrible TTK, getting one-shot or two-shot out of nowhere all the damn time
>overly specialized classes with shitty versatility
>no private servers
>no mods
>no console
>no custom configs

I've been playing it recently and I've been enjoying it so far. It's pretty close to what I would've anticipated so far. It rides the line between being super casual and semi-competitive decently, so it probably would get even better if I put in the hours.

>big open areas that you have to push while the entire enemy team is hunkered down
Yeah that too. Maybe one of the main issues is the game is unidirectional capture the flag

>Oh your shoes are uncomfortable?
>I'll just cut off your feet! Problem solved!

This. I have never meet someone so easily offended before.

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6v6

Yeah its fun when you first start. As someone who has played since the beginning I've seen the rise and fall of OW.

Can't play same shit for long. No game can last forever.

They won't let me instalock Hanzo and say the n word

because you're not playing with friends or at least good people
this

What's less fun, getting killed by a Hanzo who just shot an arrow through a choke until he hit something or a Doomfist jumping from a rooftop to instagib you with no effort (unless you played Tracer who can just zip away from any incoming danger)

It's virtually identical gameplay to when it launched. You can redownload the game and play the exact same choke point scenarios from 2 years ago except now there is more absurd healing, shields everywhere and every DPS is useless because tanks outdps them.

They froze the game and launched their artifical Esports league instead of making the game interesting or fun, the only people playing it are either brain damaged to getting checks directly from Blizzard

I suppose it might feel shallow and played out eventually, but that's exactly what I would've expected it to be and it's not much of a con as I wouldn't want it to be my main game anyway. It just sounds good for pugging.

It's terrific. You just haven't played or invested in the loot box system enough. Invite some friends to try while you're at it and watch some League games on Twitch. Don't forget to root for the home team or we'll lose to China again.

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Also why do people shit on OW lootboxes so much? They drop like a fucking candy and only contain some meh-tier non gameplay altering cosmetics that aren't generally even that hard to get if you play enough, since you can buy them eventually with random currency you'll inevitably recieve.

This.
And what's worse is that valve literally wrote about this specific topic with TF2 and how taking control away from the player so easily is a big fucking no no.
It's the major reason the sandman was nerfed, and stuns in general require putting yourself in serious danger or requiring a lot of skill, being stunned it's just not fun to play against.

Personally it's the first "shooter" I got good at (I got a computer late) and so got very personally invested in it, so it was sad to me to see the game going to shit because of braindead heroes shaping the meta and shitty balance changes. I've let go now though

>instapick bastion
>dumb bitch gets pissed off tries to throw the game
>end up winning with gold damage and kills

>almost every
>closer to a third, majority in DPS
The CC isn't really a problem nor are moves that effectively disable you (number goes up a little if you're being really liberal with what falls into these categories). Ultimate economy being a thing and being such a momentum shift within matches is what's its biggest problem, followed by the fact it's a team based game that allows you to run solo, allowing for some horrendous self-entitlement when it comes to picking characters you want to play rather than characters that fill a role needing to be played. Those two alone are what make you feel useless, not getting stunned or outplayed via abilities like DM or shields.

The only exception to the 'stun isn't a problem' point is Brigitte, but she's been a problem since her literal launch and they're only recently starting to tune her towards being a support focus instead of an obnoxious hybrid of support/tank/dps.

I think they're done pretty well due to how often you get them, but there's a lot of skins that are just shitty recolors.

You dont get impregnated when you fail to stop the payload

Hybrid roles are interesting but it doesn't really work when the rest of the cast has a clear focus on what they are. I mean, the game has SOME heroes that can be considered hybrid but that's a stretch really, like Roadhog does good damage but ultimately he's just a bullet sponge you should respect. Brig does strong consistent damage, makes it dangerous to approach her team and heals a shitton of teamwide health WHILE doing damage. Her kit doesn't make any sense balance-wise, she was a desperate attempt to remove the dive meta that backfired badly

That's how it's supposed to be, there are tiers of skins for a reason and the lowest ones are meant to be generally shitty, so putting too much effort into them wouldn't make much sense. If the cheapest and most common ones were on par with the rarest and most expensive ones, then there would be not much of a point to them as people wouldn't care to try to get/farm them.

It's probably pretty obvious though.

shield heroes

Low individual skill expression. Characters that do focus on actual technical skill expression are largely ineffective and seem forced out by compositions focused on just blobbing through. There are some god-Widows and god-Genjis, but Widow and Genji are largely useless compared to just slabs of health and healing. Meanwhile there were gods of almost every class in TF2 that could carry a game nigh-singlehandedly.
None of all of that would matter, mind you, if the game leaned into itself just being casual and fun and doubled down on those aspects. Instead it’s pushed as being ultra-competitive and the playerbase even in quick play become all sperged out if you’re just playing to have fun. It took League of legends’ community a solid 8 years to finally cool down a bit to where you can play normals and not get flamed for just having fun not being an aspiring pro. I don’t see OW lasting long enough to get to that point.

too many hitscans

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Yeah, Brigitte is the only one I would consider a problematic character because of her entire kit. She hits you, she's healing herself and her teammates, she's pushing with a shield to mitigate damage from herself and her teammates, she can stunlock you into an instant combo that deletes squishy targets, and then, originally, she would pop an Ultimate pre-battle to stack Armor that didn't go away. Her entire kit was nonsense.

Hog and D.Va keep getting tuned to be this DPS/Tank hybrid and I was really worried at one point they were going to do that for everyone, because they have this mentality of making characters "feel' good, which translates into everyone being able to confirm a kill, whether it be for their own enjoyment or because of catering to a complaining playerbase. I always wanted Winston to do more damage, but I know it's not going to happen because it'd be stupid the exponential effectiveness it'd have, but I still worry it might happen one day for the character.

One thing that I consider pretty garbage in general are the stats and how they're implemented. The gold/silver/bronze system is pure ass and gives you little to no actual info.

Another thing is that when you spectate you mates while dead you can't switch to first-person mode (as far as I know), which seems pretty pethetic personally.

The only balanced shield hero is Reinhardt, he has to choose between offense and defense unlike the others. Orisa ALWAYS makes matches completely unfun, Winston is guaranteed a kill on any squishy as long as he jumps at the right moment, Symmetra covers the entire stage in a giant wall of shields, Brig is brig and now we're getting that new tank that can deploy airborne Orisa barriers

Yeah I love how in competitive TF2 there's only one medic and no heavy, really shows how the fun classes in that game are also the strongest. Honestly though the need for a medic kind of kills TF2 because almost no one actually wants to play healer.

People can brag about having gold medal in kills when in reality they just hit a stray bullet on some enemy that someone else actually took the effort to kill. Gold damage can mean that you just fed the enemy healers their ult.

healers are too powerful and have too much utility so they drag the entire game down the shitter.

Valve knew medics would be an anti-fun class for everyone but the medic so they balanced him appropriately, Blizzard tried to re-invent the wheel and the result is player-first fun and fuck everyone else resulting a very unfun experience across the board.

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>The only balanced shield hero is Reinhardt, he has to choose between offense and defense unlike the others
Rein is a confused design that is also boring to play. Because there is nothing interesting with holding a button down and walking around with a shield up letting everyone else on the team actively do things instead.
You're not supposed to drop your shield for a charge or fire off a shot. There is no real synergy to his kit.

There isn't a single well designed hero in Overwatch. Some come close, but they're instead extremely shallow (like every other hero).

Healers being powerful wouldn't be such a problem if it actually took effort to use that power. Ana was the best healer for a while but many didn't mind because the difference between a bad and a good Ana was massive. Meanwhile the difference between a bad Brig/Moira/Mercy and "good" ones (ie placed in high tiers in comp) is minimal

I'm not saying he's well designed in the fun department, but he is relatively balanced.

i think they fucked up and shoot themselves in the foot the moment the playerbase realized they could pass off their autism as political correctness/passive agressive behavior becoming one of the most sensitive and easily offended playerbases ive seen

people were legit mad because sigma has an asylum skin

Only seperator in Overwatch is mechanical skill, because of the lack of depth. Making healers more mechanically difficult to play wouldn't fix anything or make Overwatch a good game.

Ana wasn't as hard as people make her out to play as. Pretty much everyone gold and up was playing her at 90% capacity and landing every single sleep dart and heal shot.

Making them more difficult to play would mean that you wouldn't groan at just the sigh of a Brig, because you knew that the player could actually miss her attacks on you and you could outskill them. That leads to the game feeling more satisfying. It would go the other way as well. It's not satisfying to play Brig or Mercy since you're just a bot pushing buttons while things happen with very little risk of stuff going wrong. Doing great work as Ana feels satisfying. Nobody ever says "amazing heals Mercy" since everyone knows healing as her is braindead simple, but an Ana keeping everyone alive in a super hectic fight often gets compliments. More people, myself included, would enjoy healers more if they required more effort to d owell as.

She's not hard for anyone who has ever been decent at shooters but she made you feel like you could always improve as her and contribute to your team by landing every shot as well as weaving in damage inbetween heals. You could always improve as her but you feel like you reach the ceiling pretty quickly as other healers.

Being pretty new and feeling like being familiar only with Moira she seems somehow so fucking good. She can do pretty much fucking everything apart from stunning. While she might be slightly limited as a main healer she has some of the nuttiest and easiest to pull off group heal burst and she can also just straight out DPS or flank. She's also extremely self-reliant and surviveable with a decent mobility skill. I guess that shields are good against her, but her ults penetrates these as well.

I guess she's more of a solo/pub hero and has diminishing effects the higher the skill, but is she really just a versatile beast that can do almost anything well as I envision her or am I just completely wrong? I regularly get high medals in all categories, which obviously feels a bit misleading due to much of her damage being easily healed, but it still feels really impactful for how easy it is to pull off.

They admitted at one point to rigged matchmaking. Outside all fuckups probably that.

Basically if you win to much they intentionally place you together with tards to reach 50% winrate instead of running a decent elo system and placing you together with other good players.

bros imagine if Pharah had the movement speed and strafe jumping of a Quake character

I quite like playing Mercy, I kind of like topping off everyone's HP and sometimes swap for damage while trying to survive, since you're pretty much always highest priority kill, though it comes with the issue of feeling relatively low skillcap as there isn't much more ways of improving your efficiency as in most situations you'll have enough people to heal, so there isn't much of a question or opportunity of swapping for damage and even thinking of pulling out your secondary arm is out of the question, so as long as you're healing the right target and surviving (which most of the time is more of a job of your team than yours) you don't have much more room to improve. Of course when to ressurect or not is also a pretty cool skillcheck, but most of the time it feels like a pretty obvious decision.

Also people seem to regard rather highly my Mercy games. I suppose it might be due to my skill bracket being pretty low, but if you keep everyone alive and full hp at all times, people do take notice at least from my experience, even if it isn't that difficult to do. Bonus points if you pull off reviving some of them.

TF2 has never ever been focused on being competitive though. I think even as someone who was pretty good at the game for my skill bracket, I played more games where I was intentionally just doing dumb goofy shit for fun than games where I cared about maximizing my chance to win.
You don’t even have that option in a game like OW. At least far from comparatively.

Here's the thing, you want to make them more difficult in the wrong way.

What's the point of making a hero shooters with skills and shit if you're just gonna dumb it down to the only way to actively improve in the is by getting better aim, as if this was CoD or something?

How to use skills and weapons should require more thought and nuance.
Nature's Prophet from Dota has a skill where he summons a ring of trees. Simple enough, right? But is a bunch of different options like: trap enemies, protect allies, protect yourself while you teleport away, use it to summon treats (if you aim your treat skill correctly, you can also encircle enemies with said treants), give vision around other trees to prevent enemy jukes, use it as a way to block paths, it can interact with allies/enemies skills that interact with trees, etc.
In Overwatch however, how many ways can Orisa's shield be used? How many ways can McCree's flashbang be used? How many ways can Ana's grenade be used? Or her sleep dart?

Overwatch is far too shallow, which is the primary problem with the game.

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What's even the point of making a first person game where aim barely matters and the focus is on using cooldowns well? Just play an actual moba at that point

My point is that you shouldn't make a game with a bunch of different skills and shit ONLY about improving your mechanical skill.

When the only real seperator between a bronze and a pro player is basically their aiming and some minor decisionmaking differences for a game like Overwatch, you fucked up. Especially when said aiming is far more lenient in Overwatch than in other games (for real, compare sniping with Widow with sniping in other games).
It's too dumbed down and streamlined.

Teamplay is a big skill factor in Overwatch, and a very valid one at that. Cooldowns used to matter a bit more but now literally everything has been buffed so hard that it's more about just unloading everything you got on the enemy team. Also teamplay is nonexistant in casual play and in competitive play it tends to get overriden by the meta provided you don't run the exact same metas yourself.

Regardless, mechanical skill mattering a lot might be a personal opinion, I despise the fact that you often get better results playing a simple hero as opposed to one you need a lot of practice and experience to do well as (and you HAVE that practice), and how incredibly unstimulating more than half the cast feels to play because you feel like you reach their skill ceiling so quickly.

Casual as fuck.
Then they buffed all the ultracasual characters.
Spam fest.
Muh ults.
Cheesy specials and ults.
Jumping around like fags.
Shit casual objectives
Low skill

MOBA-element shooters were a mistake.
Evolve was the only good one (although they fucked up in certain areas).

Because it's quite literally TF2 made for SJWs and Tumblrfags. What kind of fucking question is that?

Overwatch has MMO elements, not MOBA.
If the Tank-DPS-Healer triangle wasn't telling enough.

blizzard's way of balancing things
have intercourse
2-2-2 is long term planning so that new heroes can be added without breaking the game entirely

Old games
>team focused
>quality gameplay keeps a strong community for years
>have to win your fight with skill
>attack and defense
>objective focused
>limited routes in a map so you have to be better to earn a position
>mic-only servers and getting kicked from lobbies for being a nub without a mic
>simple mechanics and smooth movement
>balanced maps with plenty of cover
>high-skill gap

Zoomer games
>muh positioning
>muh progression
>muh unlocks
>muh forced 50/50 matchmaking
>muh free-for-all
>muh squad deathmatch
>muh reddit upvote design philosophy
>muh open maps with no cover
>muh MOBA-influenced shooters
>muh automatic flanking routes
>muh verticality
>muh loot crates
>muh battle royale
>muh season pass
>muh diverse game design
>muh casualization
>muh low-skill character/weapon buffs
>muh explosive spam
>muh cheesy lock-on and screen obscuring mechanics
>muh dive
>muh king of the hill
>muh potemkin objectives
>muh RNG
>muh AOE
>muh CC
>muh ultimate farming
>muh gender hitbox equality

youtu.be/OxsbTjPe2fs

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Are you retarded?

stunningly beautiful

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What do you mean by automatic flanking routes?

Are you?
Overwatch has none of the key elements of a MOBA. For one MOBAs do not have a tank, dps, healer triangle. They focus on singular complicated maps, laning & creeps, jungling, etc.

Overwatch is initially supposed to be an MMO and has MMO designers. Jeff is an MMO player and dev.
There is absolutely no MOBA talent on their entire team.

probably that side paths and tunnels usually takes you straight behind where the enemy usually stands or to the point

In my experience flank routes in OW amount to a side entrance to the same chokepoint and are completely exposed, some of them even lead to dead ends.

Like an extra series of lanes which basically ensure that your team can't fully cover them all. Vertical design and labyrinth style elements really increase this, as well as cover positioning which can limit a good player's potential to kill multiple enemies.
I know a lot of people don't like this guy, but this is a great introduction to the problems in map design
youtu.be/FN7iLKUR8eY

Fucking autism, redditfag.

Imagine the first and last stage of dustbowl
Then add AOE abilities on every character on a timer
Thats all overwatch maps

OW maps are probably the other side of the spectrum, fairly well balanced because they're overly simple.
But they have the same problem with being completely open in most spaces so you just spam abilities and block corridors and chokepoints. There's not really any room to develop much map awareness or high-level tricks/complex tactics.