Persona 4 > Persona 5

You can't. Because it's the truth

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Raidou > every Persona

N-NO! That's not...that is to say...Persona 4..Persona 4 is S....S...S-Scooby Doo!!? It can't be...there's no way...I mean...no...NO...NO! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO N O N O N O N O N O N

>T.dead franchise

As someone who started the series with 4 (and then moved onto Golden), it is not better than 5. Everything 4 did, 5 did it better.

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Correct.

At least it's better then edgy teens playing super heroes

As someone who started with 3, then to 4 and Golden and then 5, 5 is overrated garbage. 5 did not make me feel as close as I did to the cast of 3 or 4.

4 had a better story and better characters. People make fun of 4 a lot because the theme of its story was friendship, but Persona 5's theme essentially boils down to "adults are bad and society sucks", which is much more cringy.

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The cast of 5 is way less interesting and I'm some ways just feels like a repeat of 4 and 3 characters

Honestly I kinda prefer 5. 4 felt rushed without the Golden ending while 5 just felt more polished overall.

My overall conclusion with the Persona series (having played 2-5, thinking of playing 1 sometime this year) is that it's one of the few series' in gaming where we are actually in good hands going forward. I was genuinely worried for the Persona saga after 4 felt so rushed, but after 5 I am not worried we are on the exact path we need to be.

And I can count on one hand the game lineups I'm willing to say that about.

P2:EP is the worst though

>The theme is friendship
>This isn't cringy
I just think you have no friends

>"get off your ass and fucking do something with your life" is cringy
Okay?

5>3>4

4 was hot garbage

I don't know how you can honestly think that when you get what feels like two weeks to choose what you do at night without that damn cat telling you to go to bed. It felt rushed because the days feel more scripted, most of your days are decided by the game and not what you choose to spend them on. I really hope in future Persona titles this doesn't become a pattern.

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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH CAN YOU FUCKING FAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSSSSS NOT ARGUE ABOUT WHATS BETTER BETWEEN THREE FOUR AND FIVE FOR ONE FUCKING THREAD GOD FUCKING SHUT UPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

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5 first month>4>3>5

>um ackshually all of societies problems is because of a cup

I will agree that I was one step from barbecuing that fucking cat by the end of the game but honestly if you want "open RPG" and not scripted I don't really think you're barking up the right tree.

I will agree that 3 and 4 gave you more free time, but the free time you had in 5 felt more like a precious resource and I liked that.

Finally, an opinion worth sharing.

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>I don't know how you can honestly think that when you get what feels like two weeks to choose what you do at night without that damn cat telling you to go to bed.
I don't know why Morgana triggered so many people. Look at P4, it's not like your character would have stayed up all night if Morgana wasn't there. He'd have just been thinking "boy I should go to bed"
Actually I don't even see why anyone thinks of this as a negative for the game, it's so minimal.

The only reason why you think this is because you're only looking at the days in between deadlines. You get just as much free time in 5, the difference is that almost all of it is in the deadline periods, which are intentionally at least twice as long as the deadline periods in 4 because of this. Meanwhile you lack the issue of 4 where the period in between dungeons felt like filler just waiting around with your thumb up your ass because they shoved all the plot into the in-between periods in 5.

That checks out, five polished a lot of things and your days definitely felt more precious as a result.

>I didn't understand the ending
Ok

I don't think you played the other games, that's why you don't understand. Persona 3 & 4 gave you plenty of time in-between dungeons to level up your social link and events were rare and savored.

5 Overloads you with events and scripted days to the point where once you've reached the end of the game, it no longer feels special.

what is there to understand? all of societies problems are caused by some mystical force created by society rather than because people are actually just cunts? it shits all over the entire message of the rest of the game

Yeah, these guys are real social activists. I'm so inspired.

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>every character is Ryuji
Dumbass

>5 was my first Persona game
Dumbass

>all of societies problems are caused by some mystical force created by society
Right so it wasn't just a fuckin' cup.
>rather than because people are actually just cunts
But that's why the cup... formed.
How do you simultaneously understand and not get the end

who are you quoting?

>Persona 3 & 4 gave you plenty of time in-between dungeons
>5 Overloads you with events and scripted days
And 5's dungeon periods are twice as long as 4's because of this.

>this is my first day on Yea Forums
Dumbass

>I don't think you played the other games, that's why you don't understand.
I played all the other games, and I even mentioned P4.
>Persona 3 & 4 gave you plenty of time in-between dungeons to level up your social link and events were rare and savored.
That's not what I was talking about at all, user. I was specifically talking about the grievance about Morgana.
Did you even READ my post?

JRPG fags hate being told that their cherished stories aren't as deep or meaningful as they thought they were.

It's not that I don't get it user. It's that I think it's a cheap exit. We already had almost the exact same concept in P3 and P4 too, I was expecting something more grounded and real for the ending personally with how much more mature the overall themes and style of the game was but it just jumped off into wacky jap retardation for everything post-shido (where the game should have actually ended)

All Persona is garbage, play actual SMT instead.

All the replies to that comment have been pretty reasonable though

But MC had one of his worst days at Junes with your stupid hospital call.

I tried playing 4, but navigating through the map is a bit of a nightmare. Does it get better later on?

>P3 and P4 did something like this too
>But I only hate P5 for it
Cool?

>I was expecting something more grounded and real
Your retardation is not the game's fault.

P5 is literally better than all the other games in the series by a long shot and you’re delusional as fuck if you think otherwise.

Did I say I hate P5? No
I just think the ending is a stupid jumping of the shark and goes much worse and further than the bullshit of the previous games. Especially when your showdown with Shido is set up to be the literal peak point of the game, that's the entire point of why everything in the game transpires as it does and to be told "oh ackshually it was a cup made by humans that did it" is fucking retarded

After replaying Persona 5 after 4 and 3, it really did bug me how the game will literally take the wheels away for you for entire weeks at a time. Plus the damn fucking cat telling you to go to bed, Persona 4 would have events during the day but it always let you do an activity at night; days where Adachi comes around are usually the exceptions or days you're meant to check the midnight channel. In fact, Persona 5's social part is far inferior to the previous two installments which had a far more interesting and varied cast of characters.

soon
youtube.com/watch?v=Peu_ULHmyTU

>My headcanon didn't happen, game sucks now

You have not played many MegaTen games or JRPGs in general if P5’s ending is somehow surprising to you. It was heavily foreshadowed anyway if you weren’t retarded.

>6 years since the Golden came out
>still can't emulate it past the loading screen.
Just get a vita or play the PS2 version.

Persona 3>

>Did I say I hate P5? No
Do you even know what hyperbole means user? Also
>I just think the ending is a stupid jumping of the shark
Yeah how could I ever think you hate P5.
>Especially when your showdown with Shido is set up to be the literal peak point of the game
Kinda like the battle with Adachi, yeah. You have to be silly to not suspect something after Shido, user. Especially with Igor acting as shady as he was
>and to be told "oh ackshually it was a cup made by humans that did it" is fucking retarded
I don't agree at all, because through Mementos they've set up that there's something wrong with society all game.

All you do is press triangle to get shortcuts

>Especially when your showdown with Shido is set up to be the literal peak point of the game, that's the entire point of why everything in the game transpires as it does
Yeah, just like how Adachi is the entire point of why everything in 4 transpires or Ikutsuki is why everything in 3 transpires or Sudou is why everything in 2EP transpires or Joker is why everything in 2IS transpires or Kandori is why everything in 1 transpires. You're a fucking moron.

I think he means SMT4

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I don't recall Yaldy having any real foreshadowing. Almost everything about his existence was dumped onto you on the very last day. I guess you could extrapolate that since Mementos was society's Palace, the Shadow guarding it would also be an amalgamation of society's Shadows, but Yaldy himself being this "all according to plan" mastermind was out of left field.

Just use square/triangle (depending on which version you're playing) to fast travel around, the map is pretty small anyway I don't know how you're struggling other than trying to find social links.

5 had better style but 4 did have better down time scenes and party interaction.

Feel like they depended too much on the texting bullshit to replace actual scenes and social interaction and called it a day.

Yaldy was foreshadowed by Igor's voice, that's it I think. You'd only know that if you played the previous games though.

I meant navigating through SMT4

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Wow. user, I think it might be illegal to blow someone the fuck out that hard
>I don't recall Yaldy having any real foreshadowing.
This was foreshadowed from the very moment they introduced Igor and his general mannerisms were far more aggressive and forthright than he's ever been. And because the velvet room was a prison. And because he had a deep, evil voice

I want to strangle you with my bear hands just fuckoff to your visual novel with scooby doo plot

P5 has actual dungeons so it's automatically better than 3 or 4.
The dungeons don't make me want to kill myself so it's automatically better than IS and EP.

Yaldy was foreshadowed with Igor, his voice, and him saying welcome to MY velvet room. Morgana’s existence foreshadowed it, and mementos foreshadowed it, which were all unanswered questions. What wasn’t foreshadowed was P4’s ending and P3’s ending where the final boss pretty much came out of nowhere when they were introduced.

>Just get a vita or play the PS2 version.
Or get a PSTV. They are slot cheaper

That plus having based demons instead of the ugly shitty shadows makes it better than the others by default. I could never slog through P3/4’s dungeons again especially because I don’t want to fight the same fucking shadows for the millionth time.

>P5 has actual dungeons so it's automatically better than 3 or 4.
You say that but it's countered by the fact that they're long and boring

I don't believe they are at all, but I'll admit that's personal taste. And at least I have something to do besides walk down hallways, fighting enemies until I find stairs or a chest

>"Hey player, make sure you form bonds of convenience with other people where you both do things for each other in a give-and-take relationship."
>"By the way, you're in one of those relationships with me right now, which is why I'm giving you all these abilities."
>"What am I getting out of this? I'm not telling, tee hee!"
>"By the by, did you notice how a major recurring theme of this game is people exploiting others for their own gain?"
>"And how that rival detective was used by his mentor figure only to be betrayed, tossed aside and forgotten?"
>"Boy I wonder what I, your mentor figure throughout this entire game, could possibly be planning!"

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But Igor's always said "my velvet room", at least in the nip versions.
>P4
Izanami was just as bad.
>P3
Nyx's existence is told to you well in advance. Wasn't it touched on during your summer outing to the Kirijo beach house and Ikutsuki's rant? She's definitely introduced proper in December.

>tartarus and same texture hallways with the same bad shadow designs better than the narratively driven and unique P5 dungeons
You are a fucking joke lmao

P3 and 4 Dungeons were more interesting the what ever the fuck p5 hade. Just halls and sometimes "puzzels"

This, so fucking much. Igor was SO goddamn suspicious throughout P5. He must've said "ok, now I'll tell you everything" about 100 times, and then proceeded to tell us nothing. Heck I figured Igor was either evil, possessed, or was doing some kinda reverse psychology shit on us at some point

>Izanami was just as bad
Eh, it was bad but not Yaldy bad.

Igor's always helped you with no gain on his side though. He's always hinted that he knows more than what he's directly telling the MC.

At least you do something in p3 and 4s Dungeons. In 5, all you do is follow the path and wait for the next cutscenes

No he always said “welcome to the velvet room” going all the way back to P1 and P2.
No, Yaldy actually had foreshadowing, see They mention nyx out of pretty much nowhere in December and then you sit around doing absolutely nothing for a month before you fight her, just like how you do absolutely nothing for the whole game. That’s not foreshadowing

>P3 and 4 Dungeons were more interesting
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

1) There's a reason why they're "Confidant"/"Cooperation" and not "Social Links"/"Community"
2) There's a reason why it's Igor, not the player's team, that's the Fool. It's not your journey you're helping along, it's his.

My bad user, I don't know anything about SMT4 either.

Holy shit, imagine actually believing this.

>But Igor's always said "my velvet room", at least in the nip versions.
I guess we'll just ignore literally everything else he said

Yaldy was foreshadowed by the VA and the twins throughout the game. Izanami was total bullshit.

P5's dungeons are objectively superior, but I liked the simple dungeon crawling of 4 and 3. I never really liked the tedious puzzles in 5 which are mostly absent from the previous two, the only tedious parts of 4 were in Void Quest.

I miss them bros..

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You didn’t play the P5 dungeons. You literally pull off intricate heists in all of them, and go through so many varied and interesting rooms. You don’t do shit in P3 and P4’s dungeons except slog through the same boring retextured hallways that become obnoxiously long as you go on.

I literally can't

>Izanami was total bullshit.
She's literally the first person you meet outside of your family and shows up regularly throughout the gang.

It's fine, I should have been more clear too. I feel like I should give it another shot, though I'll have to start over because I have no idea where I left off and what I was doing.

>simple dungeon crawling of 4 and 3.
3 was passable, but 4 made me want to kys myself.

>Izanami was total bullshit.
Not that guy but I actually don't agree. Yes, Izanami was supposed to be a twist, but I do think it was at least partially foreshadowed with the whole meeting with the gas station attendant. Especially in the PS2 version since your controller randomly shakes when you shake hands with the guy

Fact

why does Persona 4 soundtrack is so much better than Persona 5 soundtrack?
Why is the story so much better in persona 4?
Why are characters so much more iconic?
Why it feels way more meaningful than persona 5?

>Random NPC talks to you once and sits back the whole game
Great foreshadowing

We're talking about Izanami Izanami, not Marie

>You literally pull off intricate heists in all of them
You're confusing the theme with gameplay.

all of your party members are fucking autists who cant do anything without Joker

Remember when P3 changed the soundtrack depending on the new season?

because persona 4 was your first persona game

Izanami (as the gas station attendant) shows up on rainy days at the gas station. In hindsight, I thought that was nice foreshadowing

everyday young life junesu

I like Persona 5's music generally but a lot of it is pretty samey. There was much better variety in tone and style of music in 3 and 4.

>talks to you directly in your dreams and you fight her in the final dungeon
>shows up regularly throughout the game at the gas station
>sits back
Just admit you've never played it.

not anymore. for some reason last year the prices jumped up to over 150 bucks

P4's soundtrack is atrocious and none of its characters are iconic. Neither's story is better or particularly more meaningful than the other.

>why does Persona 4 soundtrack is so much better than Persona 5 soundtrack?
Your opinion.
>Why is the story so much better in persona 4?
It wasn't
>Why are characters so much more iconic?
P4 has had more time to be milked. Other than that p5 has totally eclipsed the rest of the series
>Why it feels way more meaningful than persona 5?
Because you're a brainlet

i knew he was a fucking snake as soon as he said "welcome to my velvet room" as well as having his deep as fuck voice

>shows up regularly throughout the game at the gas station
user I actually agree with you overall but to be fair it's very likely someone just missed this. The NPC doesn't even have a picture, or voiced lines past the opening

If you insist.
>Mograna's existence foreshadowed it
Just as much as Teddie did to Izanami. The only thing that connects him to Yaldy is hindsight, not foreshadowing.
>Mementos
I already stated my point earlier.
>P4 and P3
Already mentioned before. Follow the entire conversation.

No, you have to defeat certain key enemies (who aren’t just shadow blobs) to progress certain parts, there is a story that unfolds for getting through every room room where you learn more about the palace owner and the new character of the palace as well. The heist you do in Madarame’s dungeon is more interesting than any previous dungeon by a huge margin.

>You literally pull off intricate heists in all of them
Dude, paydays heist's were more interesting and better then p5.

That's very little girl, user. Be careful.

>Just as much as Teddie did to Izanami.
NOTHING connected Teddie to Izanami

creativemarket.com/vecras/1905560-Sony-Play-Station-TV-Micro-Console?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MAR_G_Shopping_NB_USA_CaptureAll&utm_content=NonBrand_CaptureAll&utm_term=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkK_qBRD8ARIsAOteukD6lME2wCVZbOI8aQHF92DlJRaPdntu1fuRuxeag2RShfHKT_B3cjQaAl-lEALw_wcB
I found these for like $30, but I'm very skeptical. It's probably bullshit, but I really don't know

Have you ever actually played a persona game because that describes almost every inner dungeon in the series.

>>talks to you directly in your dreams and you fight her in the final dungeon
The dream sequence is completely ambiguous and happens once. There is nothing that draws any meaningful attention back to the gas station employee
>>shows up regularly throughout the game at the gas station
And she does nothing but act as an NPC. Should I be investigating "old man" and "young boy" too? Were they important foreshadowing as well?
>>sits back
Yes. You 4fags are completely delusional when you get called out over the shitty izanami twist.

>Just as much as Teddie did to Izanami.
Teddie had literally no connection to Izanami, user.
>I already stated my point earlier.
I'll just assume that you think he's right about this, since you didn't even know about Teddie.
>Already mentioned before.
This too.

Morgana foreshadowed Yaldy much more than Teddie, Morgana had all those dream scenes where he was turning into a malevolent shadow. Mementos foreshadows Yaldy in every possible way

Which method of getting your Persona would you want to do? 1,2,3,4, or 5? How easy would it be for you to get it?
>1
Requires friends
>2
Requires onee-san
>3
Requires super rich benefactor and faux suicide
>4
Requires admission of your faults
>5
Requires an evil adult ruining your life

just get an actual map of tokyo lmao

The first two palaces of P5 are better than pretty much anything in P4 but the game heavily falls off after that point.

P5’s heists and dungeons were more interesting and better than all of the other dungeons of the Persona series, so basically you’re saying payday is better than all of them. You have to be delusional to think P5’s dungeons aren’t the peak of the series.

P1 and P2 just requires you to play the Persona game, I guess when you're a kid or an adult.
Not surprised they dropped THAT later on.

I feel like the Heist at Madarame's Palace was the highlight in a sense for stealing the treasures.. All the following dungeons is pretty much just clearing a path to the treasure, which was only a part of the plan for museum.

That's kind of the point I was making. Nothing about Morgana foreshadows the existence of some grand mastermind. All you get from the dream sequences is that he's another Shadow like Teddie or Metis who became sentient and could use a Persona.

1 just requires you to get roped into a dumb school game

4s is the most general and relatable I think

I'm saying that calling them heists is a joke

>All you get from the dream sequences is that he's another Shadow like Teddie or Metis who became sentient and could use a Persona.
But you can see he being created, also he knowing mementos is a foreshadow

>requires you to play the Persona game,
What are you, retarded?

Teddie knows about the TV World and Metis about the Abyss of Time. None of that foreshadowed their game's final big bad.

>Nothing about Morgana foreshadows the existence of some grand mastermind.
Except for the fact that the whole game he's different from everyone else, talks about how he feels like he's "designed to take us somewhere" because he turns into a car, and there's all the direct dream sequences showing Morgana being born from darkness in Mementos.

I’ve played all 6 persona games, you clear have not because your only point of reference is P3/4. P2 has much better dungeons than P3/4 as well.
That does not describe the other dungeons at all, especially not anything pre-P3. You have to find and beat specific enemies to get certain items to proceed, it’s not just some random reused shadow blocking a hallway like in 3 and 4. In P4 they just randomly dump shadow dialogue onto you every few floors and then they run away, this is not good story telling like P5’s dungeons has. Futaba’s dungeon did what P4 dungeons did but ten times better.

>I didn’t play P1/2: the post

>What are you, retarded?
Did you actually Play P1+P2? Let me give you a hint, it happens during the first few minutes of P1, go check that out before you act dumber.

>The dream sequence is completely ambiguous and happens once
Not him but how does that change the fact that it's foreshadowing later events and happens in the final dungeon.

Because mementos is some strange shit compared to TV world who was always there as said by Teddie, Morgana also says he feels something at the bottom of mementos and also how he guides the Mc

sakurafubuki nel

Futabas dungeon was pure kino and a great homage to p4

>it's foreshadowing later events and happens in the final dungeon.
But it never happens, Yu never fights her alone

Im not saying it wasn't foreshadowing, I'm saying it was bad foreshadowing.

>The dream sequence is completely ambiguous and happens once.
Gee it's almost like it's foreshadowing shit later with a cryptic event early on or something
You literally do, and that's how you kill her.

Tips to beat shadow teddy?

>You literally do, and that's how you kill her.
No you don't, we don't know if Rise got tossed in hell too so she should have been watching that part

>Yu never fights her alone
You've never played P4 have you.

youtube.com/watch?v=GXNUd5tpFXI
THIS IS SO FUCKING CATCHY
WHY DID YOU REMIND ME user?

When he lifts his arms defend

>Yeah he was alone there, but he might have been COMPLETELY alone
I think you're splitting hairs, she doesn't even speak during that section

that page is selling a photoshop template for the photo on that page of a skin on a PSTV.

Fuse better personae

So... don't buy it. Got it.

use king frost
or if you've got a lot of time, get slime and level it to level 7 to learn resist phys. then get an emperor card to upgrade it to null phys, the fuse that up to king frost.
he literally wont be able to hurt you

She could have easily been surprised, and it still don't happens in the same way of the dream as he had a normal Izanagi there and she don't even attacks you

Your reasoning doesn't make sense when Metis pulls the exact same shit besides the "designed to take us somewhere by turning into a car" part. But she likewise is from elsewhere and is certain that there's an answer to the time anomaly at the bottom of the Abyss.

Metis was more guiding them to Door boss fight than Erebus if i am not mistaken

>worst dungeon in any fucking jrpg ever
>most S links are shit
>like seriously I bet you couldn't even remember what happened in most of them without googling

>Your reasoning doesn't make sense when Metis pulls the exact same shit
We don't see dream sequences with her being born from darkness inside Mementos/The Dark Hour depending on your game, so that's just not true

I remember them fine. Still, fuck moon.

Make sure you have a persona that has either repel ice or drain ice, Undine or King Frost for example, a Neko shojun with Matarakuja is good as well, as well as Rakasha with power charge. I beat Teddy on hard at lvl 34, whenever he uses mind charge he uses Mabufula so always switch to a drain Persona when he does and have everyone guard, then just beat him to death while providing healing with Yukiko, guard when he uses Nihil Hand.

>She could have easily been surprised
Ok or she's gone like everyone else.
>and it still don't happens in the same way of the dream
Yeah because he beats Izanami, she doesn't run away

>worst dungeon in any fucking jrpg ever
I hate when people say this. Tartarus was top comfy. >Ywn scale an impossibly tall haunted tower with your bros and waifu

4's dungeons were a lot worse.

>Ok or she's gone like everyone else.
Why would she ? Izanami attack only got them cause they defended Yu from it

This is a good point. I can hardly remember what happens in any P3/4 SLs but I remember P5’s links quite vividly.

>Tartarus was top comfy. >Ywn scale an impossibly tall haunted tower with your bros and waifu
Yeah for +200 floors of the same shit in different colors
>4's dungeons were a lot worse.
They were short and had an actual boss in them instead of normal shadows but bigger till endgame

adding onto that, if you want to grind. Grind till lvl 38 so you can fuse Black Frost and make sure it has resist phys (should have already from Jack Frost if you fused with slime). You can literally solo the fight that way.

Every floor in Tartarus looks exactly the same up until around the 70s, and the music barely changes at all

>why does Persona 4 soundtrack is so much better than Persona 5 soundtrack?
Actually I like both really. Persona 5 had Awesome and Soothing Jazz and Persona 4 had this Cool and Catchy Pop Music. Both really great music. Their battle themes I will forever adore as my favorite in their OSTs.

>Why is the story so much better in persona 4?
This one is actually a very good point. Since you know, battling Izunami isn't really necessary in my opinion. Her inclusion feels more like an afterthought unlike the boring god-like entity you are forced to battle in P5.

And while both stories are good in my opinion, I really give it to P4.

>Why are characters so much more iconic?
This is also a toss up for me.

I actually like the characters for both games really.

Though I guess if I have to pick by who I hung out with more and how fleshed out they became.... P4.

P4 really feel like real characters than P5.

>Why it feels way more meaningful than persona 5?
Again because of how real those chatacters felt compared to P5.

Yes, just like Morgana was helping the PT down to the bottom of Mementos. That doesn't foreshadow a keikaku mastermind.
Yeah, I was remembering the dream sequence wrong, but her birth scene is still clearly shown. It's just not as in-your-face.

Dude I like P3 but Tartarus fucking blows
The dungeons in P1 were even better. Maybe not P2.

>It's just not as in-your-face.
Which is why everyone says that Morgana has foreshadowing, user

I wish the difficulty in these games didn't drop off after the 2nd or so dungeon, even playing on very hard the game becomes an absolute cake walk compared to the first dungeon where you will die constantly from getting oneshotted, forcing you to actually use ailments. Only referring to p3 and p4 here though, merciless P5 is easy as hell because of the added multipliers to weaknesses.

>Yes, just like Morgana was helping the PT down to the bottom of Mementos. That doesn't foreshadow a keikaku mastermind.
But it does, down there is the mastermind and mementos needed to have a treasure/palace owner behind it, also all the times the game says you're playing an unjust game fucked by 'fate'

>minato "defeats" nyx and dies
>Yu "defeats" izanami and she spares him
>Joker solo KILLS Yaldabaoth, a god and gets his dick sucked the day after

Damn, no wonder 3/4fags seethe so much

That is the Atlus special, the whole Megaten suffers from it barring some bosses after early game

How. Tell me how it "heavily foreshadows" to a mastermind controlling everything from behind the scenes because clearly I'm in the minority here. All that alludes to is that Morgana was born in Mementos.
I've already mentioned earlier that you can extrapolate SOMETHING exists at the bottom. I don't have a problem with that. Erebus was the same thing. My problem is that nothing made Yaldabaoth out to be the "I WAS BEHIND IT ALL THE ENTIRE TIME" until the last few days in-game.

>My problem is that nothing made Yaldabaoth out to be the "I WAS BEHIND IT ALL THE ENTIRE TIME" until the last few days in-game.
The whole foreshadow how you were playing an unjust game, the only person who can make that happen is something big behind the scenes

>minato
what year is it?

>a god
He was a wannabe god created by the collective unconscious you idiot.
Also Yu solos Izanami.

>Tell me how it "heavily foreshadows" to a mastermind controlling everything from behind the scenes because clearly I'm in the minority here.
Because when Morgana is born in the dream, there's a distinctly sinister edge to it. And this dream sequence is repeated in P5. I just assumed this was obvious.

>He was a wannabe god created by the collective unconscious you idiot.
That is Izanami too

Dude, in SMT that's what every god is.
...Well, except technically Nyx if you go by the extra lore in the artbook. Technically Nyx (according to Hashino) is kinda like Lavos, a weird space alien that crashed into the moon and then made the humans on Earth create gods and demons as a mean to defend against her.
Not even joking

That Nyx bullshit needs to retconned or at least explained in game

Yeah, and we got that mastermind. Shido. And then in less than a week in-game, we're told that someone else was pulling the strings all along and we have to beat back the threat. That's not "heavily foreshadowed" like the first user I talked to mentioned.
The whole fucking place looks sinister because it's filled with humanity's Shadows. That doesn't allude to a mastermind.

Not as of Golden.

Persona 4 is overrated but Rise is by far the best girl in the series.

Daily reminder that Lovers are the canon pairings and the best girls know their respective game!

>Yeah, and we got that mastermind. Shido. And then in less than a week in-game, we're told that someone else was pulling the strings all along and we have to beat back the threat. That's not "heavily foreshadowed" like the first user I talked to mentioned.
Not Shido, Shido always said he was 'chosen by God', we just did not knew it was literally

Look... at this point I think even the team behind P3 ignores this bit of lore.

>The whole fucking place looks sinister because it's filled with humanity's Shadows.
That doesn't change the fact that when Morgana is born in the dream, he has those distinct yellow shadow eyes. Very clear sinister edge to it. Like I said, I thought this was obvious

Not UNTIL golden you mean, Marie is the one that says it, vanilla P4 never mentioned

No, shit. You're saying it like anyone thinks otherwise.

4 > 3 >>>>>>> 5
and that's objective

yikes. Imagine having taste this niggardly

>in SMT that's what every god is.
Actually it only applies to a few. Things like the Goddess of Tokyo and YHVH strictly aren't made from humanity.

Would I like Persona 5 if I dont usually play JRPGs or watch anime? I'm after a decent RPG to sink into

but Fuuka isn't the lovers arcana! Shes High Priestess!
I love Fuuka!

Try it on the emulator at least

>is that it's one of the few series' in gaming where we are actually in good hands going forward
Agreed considering the hack Hashino is leaving the series. His writing made Persona 5 a 2/10 game compared to 10/10 Persona 4 Golden. Well said indeed.

this is the answer nobody can accept

Marie being Izanami is also the thing that confirms that she's a separate being.

Yes, they actually are. Very explicitly, especially with YVHV in SMT4A might I add. What game even contradicts this?

>if I dont usually play JRPGs or watch anime?
No, it's a very weeb/anime game.

No, Marie said she only came into existence(as Izanami) because people wished to hide the truth or some bullshit

>every party character in Persona 5 is garbage tier
Yeah, agreed.

Right, but that still isn't exactly "heavily foreshadowing" the existence of a mastermind. Again, you learn of and have to take down the big bad not even a week afterwards.
Have you not played any other Persona besides 5? It was especially prominent in 4 that Shadows have these glowing yellow eyes. Even the newer Velvet Room attendants have yellow eyes. Hell, even in 5, the cast has yellow eyes right before their awakening, but you wouldn't call that foreshadowing.

no.

BABYBABYBABYBABYBABYBABY

>What game even contradicts this?
SMT4A. You know, the game that establishes YHVH as an Avatar of the great will that only gains a power boost from humanity rather than being a construct?

>simple puzzles (read: filler) and unavoidable enemies is my definition of "actual dungeons"
Well, if you say it that way... you're right. P5 had actual dungeons compared to 3 and 4 and that's why it sucks ass.

>Have you not played any other Persona besides 5?
I've played literally all of them
>It was especially prominent in 4 that Shadows have these glowing yellow eyes.
That's been a feature since P2, what's your point?
>Even the newer Velvet Room attendants have yellow eyes. Hell, even in 5, the cast has yellow eyes right before their awakening, but you wouldn't call that foreshadowing.
Ok. I don't see how Morgana's dream isn't foreshadowing though. That's the first (and only) time we see Morgana with yellow eyes, and Morgana himself even freaks out at the dream, and suspects that he may be "some kinda horrible thing" when he's talking to Joker.
Like seriously, how is this not foreshadowing

>And then in less than a week in-game, we're told that someone else was pulling the strings all along and we have to beat back the threat. That's not "heavily foreshadowed" like the first user I talked to mentioned.
You're retarded. The point of the entire game was that society creates/perpetuates its own oppression. Defeating shido was a temporary solution

FACT

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>You know, the game that establishes YHVH as an Avatar of the great will that only gains a power boost from humanity rather than being a construct?
No, they set up that he gets everything from humanity. His power, his form, everything. The end of the game is literally your party members denying his power over humanity, and stating that they actually have power over him.

>Right, but that still isn't exactly "heavily foreshadowing" the existence of a mastermind. Again, you learn of and have to take down the big bad not even a week afterwards.
It counts a little, and there is also they always saying there was something big in mementos but we defeat Shido before getting to the depths and the final door of mementos being locked before Shido is down

Persona 5 is the only game I've dropped for being boring.
Incidentally I lost about 40 hours of progress in 4 when my save disappeared, but I still replayed the bits I'd done and beat it eventually.

user, Apoc established YHVH as the creator of that universe. He can't be a product of humanity if he created them.

Yeah, what this guy said. I love fighting demons for the millionth time but I HATE fighting shadows for the millionth time. Even though they are almost identical in practice. I JUST HATE IT. Persona 5 made a HUGE improvement, especially considering it took them just 8 (EIGHT) years to do it.

>Persona 4 better than Persona 5
I’m a massive P4fag and I even call bullshit on that.

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>You literally pull off intricate heists in all of them
This is the brain of a P5 nigger. Just look at this. Holy fuck, I'm stumped by this shit. And it was probably said unironically too. In disbelief right now.

2=3>4>5>>>Try and prove me wrong

>they set up that he gets everything from humanity
No they don't. He gets power but not all of it was from humanity hence why he still has a form and considers amounts of power after he was removed from his position of God.
Its also why YHVH can be permanently killed.

YHVH Persona when ? i want to summon a big yellow head

>user, Apoc established YHVH as the creator of that universe.
He recreated the universe, user. He didn't make the universe in the first place, or humanity.
>He can't be a product of humanity if he created them.
The final boss battle against YVHV is denying that he has power over humans, and it even says that all the power YVHV ever had came from humanity

>considers
Considerable
That's what I get for switching to phoneposting.

>every day's great with your cock
>doujin "translators" using localizationisms

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>Like seriously, how is this not foreshadowing
You keep saying this over and over, and you just keep making me repeat myself. NONE OF THAT ALLUDES TO A MASTERMIND. All it says it that Morgana is a Shadow born in Mementos. Nothing else. You would never think "oh some big bad must've been behind his creation".
Again, I don't have an issue that there's something big at the bottom of Mementos. My issue is that barely anything built up to Yaldy being a mastermind behind it all until the events at the very end of the game. I'm not arguing that fighting a huge boss monster is dumb.

Except P3P was my first. 4 still feels like the quintessential Persona game and 5 feels like cheap cosplay.

>Igor's voice
>Mementos as a whole
>Twins amnesia
>Mementos depths containing a prisoner locked in a room

P2>P4>P3>P5>>>P1

Yikes, P5niggers are truly getting desperate here.

>No they don't. He gets power but not all of it was from humanity hence why he still has a form and considers amounts of power after he was removed from his position of God.
That's completely untrue. By denying YVHV, we warp his form back to his true visage. Also he was never removed from position as God by anyone, even in the lore they set up in SMT he just cast down the other gods as demons.
>Its also why YHVH can be permanently killed.
In the massacre route, yes. In the bonds route, YVHV isn't dead forever because humanity lives, and humanity is who gave him form

5 first month > 4 > 5's first half > 3 >>>>>>>>>>>> 5's second half

Sae's dungeon was fun but the story went pants on retarded after Futaba imo. (A bit during)

She is cute alright, but not fun, I actually found her to be pretty boring, but eh, I guess thats how most kids her age are, just there not doing much and being sad.

>He gets power but not all of it was from humanity hence why he still has a form and considers amounts of power after he was removed from his position of God
The point of the first phase was denying his divinity so he's a demon, but he's still an extremely powerful demon due to the rules of how demon power works.

>Its also why YHVH can be permanently killed.
YHVH is only permanently killed in the massacre route, where you create your own universe. He can be reformed, even if it takes eons, in the bonds route, which is why you need to massacre everyone and turn Flynn and your goddess into mindless drones, to erase all human knowledge of YHVH.

p5 has more leeway than any game in the series except for p4g.

I dropped it right after Futaba and it was a pain just getting there. It's all shit, from beginning to middle to probably end.

>You keep saying this over and over, and you just keep making me repeat myself
Yes we know, you're wrong and refuse to accept it, which is why people keep restating the same points that prove you wrong, because you refuse to accept you're wrong. You were BTFO over an hour ago. Cope.

>. My issue is that barely anything built up to Yaldy being a mastermind behind it all until the events at the very end of the game.
He was the treasure of the palace that creates palaces, it was not surprising that he is behind everything

why are you playing a megaten game if you don't want to fight gods in the end?

I like how this implies P4 and 3 whole games were of the same quality when some parts are more retarded than the worst P5 ones

>arguing over something as retarded as the P5 """"story""""
When is the Sword Art Online discussion, guys?

There is no way any smart human actually thinks that 5>4

This but the reverse

>I don't recall Yaldy having any real foreshadowing.
yaldy is foreshadowed as early as pq with igor disappearing from the velvet room, and from the beginning of p5 when "igor" has a different voice and attitude than usual.

>Git Gud

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Not a single part in P4 is worse than the best P5 parts. Yes, including Marie. P5 is simply that bad.

So in P4, the way they treated that fat chick like crap felt vaguely uncomfortable. Heck I even think the staff realized this because they basically redid her character for the anime. I know fatshaming is kind of a thing in Japan, but it was just weird to me how unpleasant they made her

But Mementos itself doesn't create Palaces. It's strong, distorted wills who break away who do.

Now you're just coping, and Marie was not even bad

Good one

There is a way a smart human being actually thinks 4>5? But not the opposite?

Agreed

FUCK YOUR DAD AND FUCK THE PROMISE!

>But Mementos itself doesn't create Palaces.
The existence of Mementos does indeed make palaces. Morgana even expressly states that if they get rid of Mementos, all the palaces would vanish and they can't keep doing Phantom Thief stuff.

I think Yaldy says he creates the palace when they get strong distorted wills so they can't fuck the other shadows that stay in mementos

P3 >= P4 > P2 > P5 >>> P1

Nobody cares but you faggot

>coping
Google what it means, p5nigger. It will do you good for future banter.

>1
Requires sacrifices I think you mean.

Go cope somewhere else faggot

>insults you
>thinks he's top dog, when previous persona games tells you he serves Philemon
>not cryptic
>not nurturing
>absolutely no relationship with velvet room attendants beyond master servant
>previous games show the velvet room attendants use the time with him to grow and be more human and he enjoys and nurtures there quirkiness
But honestly the major one would be he never fuses anything which was his bread and butter.

>It's strong, distorted wills who break away who do.
Why don't the phantom thieves run into any GOOD strong willed people then? Why is it implied that strong will is inherently evil?

get standards

They themselves are the good strong willed people i guess

>who is futaba
They do

fpbp

Only retarded zoomers disagree.

seethe more literal weeb

You know dude, I don't agree with that user but you could make your samefagging a little less obvious by getting YHVH right.

P3 is a zommer game, P1 and 2 are the boomer ones

t. uses dubs because reading is hard

Sure, but what about someone with a strong will who's good, for example Donald Trump. His other self wouldn't be stuck in mementos, but he's also not a persona user.

Here's my honest opinion about P5
>Great Beginning, a bit disappointed we're just entering another world to steal stuff but whatever. Kamoshida is a great villian and believable too. Didn't go as "evil" as the others.
>Madarame was a great follow up. Loved how they had to do stuff in the real world to open up paths in mementos, it felt like a heist. Madarame was never shown as an asshole in the real world so it definitely was kinda cool seeing that dissonance.
>Kaneshiro, eh. the weakest part so far, it'll probably be an exception... right?
>Futaba, great dungeon design, great backstory for the character, nice to see them tackle a non evil target. The "hacking" was a bit dumb, but I'll turn my brain off.
>Okamura, Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
>Sae, great dungeon design, not a big fan of the direction they're going in the plot for this for. I get it's a setup to get akechi but it feels so "off" and awkward.
>Shido, Zzzzzzzzzzz, worst calling card in the game.
>Holy Grail, okay that's pretty cool, saw the twist coming but I'm all for it. The motivation for yaldy is a bit finicky but okay whatever.
>Epilogue, eh. Okay. Kinda felt they should've went for a bittersweet ending instead but whatever I guess it was a good ending. All of the false "sacrifices" can fuck off though.

I disagree. The game series probably isn't for you.

I felt it was more consistent. For p5 the game was designed in a case by case type style so I find it easier to break it into parts.

Futabas defining trait pre phantom thieves was about kysing herself, not a strong ambition to do good

>why does Persona 4 soundtrack is so much better than Persona 5 soundtrack?
Maybe you watched The Tester in a Nutshell like I did
>Why is the story so much better in persona 4?
Using a reactive plot compared to a proactive plot means there's actually tension and goals are readily apparent. There is a tremendous amount of repetition in both games plots, but for whatever reason 5's beats are even more by the book. 5's plat does not progress until a considerable amount of arsing around is done.
>Why are characters so much more iconic?
They have, marginally, more to them than constantly talking about being Phantom Theives You're being disingenuous if you think it's just Ryuji that's like this, almost every character is
>Why it feels way more meaningful than persona 5?
You solved a murder mystery compared to whatever the fuck the plot of 5 was

>Samefagging
Uh both of those are me though, and I responded to two separate posts. What are you talking about?

>For p5 the game was designed in a case by case type style so I find it easier to break it into parts.
P4 and 3 are the same shit with the full moons and dungeons

Persona 4 doesnt have cakes. In fact on average the 4 girls are far worse then the 5 girls.

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I love Anne.

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Because you destroyed his palace and stole his willpower away from him

I think he would have a 'good' palace then

>Good
>Donald Trump
Uhhhhh

strong will to survive, willpower isn't defined by just ambition.

None of the targets consider what they are doing 'bad' he would just have a palace

Is there anything different in her anime portrayal than in the game? iirc she was just the same, the game also shows in the final day that the person putting gifts in Yu's locker was Hanako because she developed a crush on him, that was kinda cute.
I didnt watch Golden's adaptation nor played Golden.

Why did you reply in two separate posts when you didn't get anywhere near the limit?

what about Kashiwagi, or is she too old?

>horrible person inside and out
>fat shaming
no it was because she wasn't a very good person

They do though. It's not much, but every target had a seed of doubt and guilt buried deep within their psyche which pops out after you beat the shit out of them. I think it's that dissonance between their actions and those feelings that allows for a Palace to exist.

She sits on and destroys Yosuke bike on golden

I desperately want to get back to the friend simulator part of this game, but it keeps preventing me.

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Being really shallow, I think the only reason I liked the P4 cast more is that they bantered with each other more and that their anime was better. It was funny seeing them all hang out and screw each other in the cultural festival. P5 never did have that many bonding moments.

You think P5R will fix this?

I think only the first ones, Shido thought he was right even in mementos(as he was kinda of an asshole there too)

Yeah, of course it is. I liked Persona 5, especially since I had to wait almost a decade for it, but I think the extended amount of development time just forced them to stuff the game full of dumb shit.

There are so many pointless time wasters that do nothing to further the experience, the story is a jumbled mess because of the flimsy premise, and you don't even get to the play the tail end of the game because you're in jail and just have the off screen story told to you. Not to mention that the S.links make your character way too strong and make any challenge the game might've had nonexistent.

I love a lot of the characters, and the music is obviously great, but I expected a lot more. Or maybe less. If we had a game with P4's focus and with P5's level of presentation it'd be pretty much perfect.

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P5R will have more events so sure

She's not an option but even then she's mostly played for jokes and isnt that good compared to Kawakami or Tae.

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Is anybody's favorite Persona game NOT their first one?

My favorite is P3 since I played it first, when I played P4 it just felt like a retread.

She looks amazing for someone on the wrong side of 40, but her personality's really nasty.

What P4 focus ? you literally waited on your ass till the killer moved for 70% of the game as no one had any clues about him, at least on P5 you are either going after new targets or being blackmailed into one

P3 > P5 > P2IS > P2EP > P4 > P1

I don't know. Something felt off about the PT compared to the others. I'm too much of a brainlet to explain it.

I played P3 first. My favourite Persona is 4.

I prefer 1 to the others because its more of a game and I started with 4

P4 first but P5 is my favorite

I played 3 first and I love 4 much more. In a way, it feels like P4 was made first since every element fits that game perfectly. P5 is trash though.

>Is there anything different in her anime portrayal than in the game?
Yes, very much so. In the games, she's a huge bitch. Has a very high opinion of herself despite her looks, and talks down to pretty much everyone.
In the anime, her personality is kind of the same on the surface. She's still very confident, but she's not much of a bitch. Really, in the anime the joke is that she's so confident even though she's so fat. In the games she's just sort of a cunt

I will make this game for you one day. I promise. I just need to get un-depressed first.

>In the bonds route, YVHV isn't dead forever because humanity lives, and humanity is who gave him form
there are literally so little people left and he tried to kill the only people left that still worshipped him so it's basically impossible for him to come back at this point, if humanity repopulates the planet they'll tell stories about how a god betrayed his people and a twink killed him

This but I think p5 was still good
Imo
P3 felt underbaked in the oven
P5 felt like it had too many chefs in the kitchen

>there are literally so little people left and he tried to kill the only people left that still worshipped him so it's basically impossible for him to come back at this point
YHVH himself says that he'll come back one day in the Bonds route. Is this just some headcanon you're insisting on?
>if humanity repopulates the planet they'll tell stories about how a god betrayed his people and a twink killed him
You know that in SMT, even evil demons have power, right?

I agree with this user. I played it recently and he pretty much says "you'll regret this!!!! You'll see, I'll be back!!!!"

4Golden is the best game in the series so far. It's not really debatable.

/thread. Summed it up nicely. 5 was killed by that in medias res that doesn't continue for another 70 hours. That's just criminal. And the main theme of the game is really poorly explored, a travesty compared to the previous games. And that's not even getting into the poorly written dialogue that is written without any nuance or subtext.

At least for me, it's how static everyone is. Outside of their own arcs, no one grows anymore. I mean they do, but it's kept completely in their own side stories and it's not reflected in the main story at all. None of them seem to be able to operate without you being around either. Top it off with most them being nothing but muscle and just nodding to whatever Makoto or Futaba say, and you get a real mishmash of a crew who're basically just "yes-men". No friendship really develops amongst each other because no one hangs out with anyone else besides you.

Of the nu-Persona games

5 has the best soundtrack. No question. A singer that can actually speak the English lyrics is so nice.

5 has the best art direction though the main character's Personas are the worse of the three. What was Soejima thinking?

5 has the worse story of the three though it has some good moments in the beginning. The main problem is the fact that there isn't an overarching plot thread to bind the different dungeons together. 3 has Tartarus and the need to scale it to defeat the boss during each Full Moon. 4 has the need to prevent anymore killings and to solve the mystery. What does 5 have? The characters in 5 aren't proactive in the slightest and only go into dungeons when they or someone they know are personally threatened. Add onto the fact that the dungeons aren't really connected to each other narratively in any meaningful way and you get a story with some very good moments, but is overall very average.

I do like P5 by the way, it's much better written than a vast majority of the garbage that comes out. I just think it was narratively weak compared to the other games of the series.

>Outside of their own arcs, no one grows anymore.
Same for P3 and 4

I agree with that. 5 would be decent had I not liked P4 that much and expected at least some improvements (not just QoL).

I still havent finished 5 because shits just boring and uninteresting.

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>The characters in 5 aren't proactive in the slightest and only go into dungeons when they or someone they know are personally threatened.
They literally are proactive in Kamoshida, Madarame, Okumura, Shido and mementos
>Add onto the fact that the dungeons aren't really connected to each other narratively in any meaningful way and you get a story with some very good moments, but is overall very average.
Neither are P4 ones

P3P is the best Persona game, prove me wrong.

>I do like P5 by the way, it's much better written than a vast majority of the garbage that comes out.
Like what? Super Mario? Persona 5 has some of the worst writing I've seen in any JRPG, and I've played the Octopath Traveler demo.

You just played yourself, it was literally a demake of P3

Eh, not really. They all have some kind of changes over time even if it's something like Kanji's growing attraction to Naoto.
The theives just stop.

You're just gay for Akihiko

More games should allow me to be a schoolgirl slut

>Is this just some headcanon you're insisting on?
It's just a call back to SMT2 where he says the same thing, you really think the people he betrayed will just start worshipping him again? and even if he DOES come back, he won't be nearly as powerful as he was before

>They all have some kind of changes over time even if it's something like Kanji's growing attraction to Naoto.
That is literally already shown when they first meet, also no they don't have changes over time, end game Yukiko is the same one after her dungeon, same for literally anyone

To be fair, Akihiko is a cool guy.

P4 has main story arcs and social link arcs as well as well written dialogue in the mean time. P5 only has social link arcs, with only some characters getting a main story arc and the dialogue is usually terrible, just repeating some boring shit about whichever generic villain did some generic evil deed.

I think my main gripe was that in P4 when the IT goes after Namatame, the first thoughts are to just kill him right there. You can even straight out agree with them and murder him. P5 while they started to hint at it, they're always fixed on the phantom thieves are GOOD. EVERYTHING WE DO IS TO FIX SOCIETY! I don't even think the IT was that circlejerky over themselves.

The only main story arcs of P4 is accepting their shadows, nothing more nothing less, the same shit as P5 ones gaining their personas and each dungeon having a focus on a party member
> with only some characters getting a main story arc
Everyone got one

>That is literally already shown when they first meet
Growing, user. As in it evolves over time rather than remaining stagnant, that said no, they didn't show it in their first encounter.

The response of a P5nigger ladies and gentlemen. Never ever gonna see a proper argument from these Einsteins.

Full party control and the VN menus are a massive time saver on the boring social shit, there's literally no reason to prefer full 3D movement.

So did they just forget about this guy? Is he coming back?

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God forbid the group don't acts retarded
Of course they did, Kanji was already 'do i like boys' because Naoto was undercover, and Naoto never likes him back

>I don't even think the IT was that circlejerky over themselves
That's because they weren't doing it to be heroes like the PTs, they were doing it just because they were the only ones who had the ability to do so.

he hasn't had a chance to come back since P4U2, wait until there's more P5 spinoffs

You can have full party control in FES(at least on emulator), and VN menus remove a lot of the atmosphere

The command menu works pretty good, but if you're that gung ho on control, there's a party control mod floating around.

"Accepting" their shadows is a lot more invloved and better written than anything in P5. In 5 it just happens quickly since the writers didn't know what the fuck they were doing.

Fpbp, how do they do it?!?

>"Accepting" their shadows is a lot more invloved and better written
Literally 5 minutes scene
>In 5 it just happens quickly since the writers didn't know what the fuck they were doing.
It its also 5 minutes, and they are even better because they are in cool cutscenes

You missed my point.
I don't care that they're retarded. I just hated how self righteous they were being despite forcing people against their will. If they wanted to go that route that's fine, but at least tackle the problem rather than side step it.

Of course they are, they fight for Justice and killing stops being Justice

Fpbp

This

come on, the characters are barely used on p5.
Haru literally joins as part of Morgana's angry hissy fit that he's increasingly useless, and never gets a proper introduction nor a reason for her to get a persona, it's rushed as fuck. And that's just the worst example.

Important as fuck character development is handled entirely through social links, which make them worthless and make the characters all feel static and stale the entire game because the designers have to assume that you might not have seen the SL yet.

>Kamoshida
He was threatening to expel them for assault.
>Madarame
He was threatening to call the police on them for trespassing.
>Okumura
Arranged marriage with Haru.
>Shido
Fair enough.
Sure these aren't the reasons why they initially go into the palace, but the entire story just feels like them bumbling into situations that require them to steal the hearts of random people.
>Neither are P4 ones
Each dungeon in P4 is a result of the serial killer trying to kill someone so to stop the serial killer they need to save the people.

P5 shadows were brewing in them for a long time. The characters agree with what the shadows say in order to stop evil compared to P4 where the tv world were driving their shadows crazy with hate.

>and they are even better because they are in cool cutscenes
The P5 audience everyone. Who cares about development when you have flashy lights!

What?

Kinda weird that they havent announced P5A yet

>never gets a proper introduction nor a reason for her to get a persona,
Did you even play the game ? she got a awakening just like literally everyone else
>Important as fuck character development is handled entirely through social links, which make them worthless and make the characters all feel static and stale the entire game because the designers have to assume that you might not have seen the SL yet.
And again the same shit happens with P3 and 4

>Literally 5 minutes scene
An entire dungeon and multiple lengthy story sequences for each
>It its also 5 minutes, and they are even better because they are in cool cutscenes
It's only cool if you enjoy bad anime and care little for believable characters.

Except the main arcs in P4 are very shallow and occur over the course of about 5 minutes. Social link arcs don't matter because they don't change how the character interacts in the story.

arc system works is very busy

And the same thing applies for P5.

Yahweh in real life started off as some national deity of a minor racial group in the Levant, and only became the dominant creator god of the most dominant religion on Earth once the colonial era was in full swing. Even if it takes him another 3,000+ years, it'll happen again, because that's how the cycle of existence goes.

Oh ok it is just your headcanon then

>An entire dungeon and multiple lengthy story sequences for each
But the same can be said for p5 Ryuji, Ann ,Makoto, Futaba all got dungeons and story on why they're rebelling against the status quo.

>He was threatening to expel them for assault.
>He was threatening to call the police on them for trespassing.
>Arranged marriage with Haru.
All of that only happened cause they were proactive, if they chilled out all of those would not happen
>Each dungeon in P4 is a result of the serial killer trying to kill someone so to stop the serial killer they need to save the people.
And each dungeon of P5 is someone trying to take advantage of someone in society, it's not like every single one in tokyo got a palace

>It's bad because it's happening in a cool cutscene
Wow very compelling argument

Those incidents are only the excuses for the respective deadlines. In all those instances they're proactive about who they target and when. They were going after Kamoshida before the expulsion threat, they were going after Madarame before the lawsuit threat, and so on.

I mean... Should they? Most of the social link arcs are just extensions of the story arcs. It's like optional side quests in other JRPGs. It just gives more depth to the characters.

/thread

P3 has the highest levels of kino

Actually it's
3 > 5 >> 4
This is the objective ranking.

Attached: el ayuwokitsu.png (1920x1080, 2.74M)

Nothing about the P4 cast is particularly more believable than the rest.

>and occur over the course of about 5 minutes.
If by five minutes you mean a dungeon, an investigation, battle dialogue and cutscenes that could last well over 30 minutes depending of if you use a guide or not then yeah, it's 5 minutes.

You might as well just stop pretending you've played 4.

>objective

Persona 3 fags are starting to get really annoying.

>P4 where the tv world were driving their shadows crazy with hate.
Yikes, this is how a p5brainlet sees persona. The TV world was just a reflection of their state of mind. Their insecurities were from real life and their shadows are a manifestation of that. Read some Carl Jung for gods sake you dumb piece of shit.

Has it been confirmed that Protag actually fugged the nurse?

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No, but saying that SLs count for character development is dumb since they don't change how the characters act in the main story.

You're correct about P4 being dead last, at least.

Those first three only happened after they were being proactive in the first place, user. C'mon.

Hee Hee did nothing wrong, humans are the real demons. Hee Hee just wants to not get burnt to a crisp by the sun.

>Implying the dungeon, investigation and battle dialogue counts
Only when you get to the person the arc begins
> that could last well over 30 minutes depending of if you use a guide
Only if you are a brainlet

As opposed to "it's good because it's happening in a cool cutscene"?

They should. It's especially noticeable in 4 and 5 where a good deal of character development takes place in these extra arcs. Ryuji isn't the loudmouth, crass monkey the main story makes him out to be. He's a chill bro who has your back. Everyone gets some degree of development and that should've been shown in the main story.

>But the same can be said
It can't. Stop talking shit. It can ONLY be said for Futaba since her dungeon mirrors what P4 did all game. You clearly haven't even played 5. Have fun with you cool looking nigger game and consider reading a book in the future tasteless faggot I'm done here.

But ..they don't really change how they act in their social link arc....

Stop being dumb user, each dungeon is focused on a party member

I'm assuming you mean the Devil arcana chick from P4. No, it's largely left up to interpretation. The most explicit it gets is when the screen goes black, and she's giving you a "medical examination" or something like that. The muscle groups she lists off are all in the groin area. Most people I've seen assume that she either gave Yu a blowjob, or just jerked him off

>"Persona 5 is bad because [shit that flew completely over your head]."
>"Actually you're wrong because [explanation of stuff the game already explains if you're not denser than molasses]."
>"Woooooooowwww P5fags are such brainlets!"

You're delusional.

Just as compelling as the opposite argument, user.

>.they don't really change how they act in their social link arc
How the fuck they don't ? that is the whole point of the social link, in Kanji's one he stops being ashamed of his 'female' hobbies, that already changes a lot of shit on how he act

So each character gets introduced, then 5 minutes later they get a dungeon where they undergo "development," then they've changed for the entire story. I did play P4 you dumb faggot, I said 5 minutes because that's all the time the characters themselves have to develop via dialogue and confronting their shadow. Great character development.

still haven't finished it after a decade

>it has to be exactly like P4, no exceptions, or my pea-brained head can't understand it!

>clearly didn't play the game
You dumb nigga the TV World was created by Izanami to strip humans bare, the longer you were in it the more crazier your shadow gets. This isn't even up for debate the game tells you that's exactly what happens if you cannot save the character in time.
The whole thing was rigged for her test

This honestly feels like the same conversation I have with almost anyone who complains about a JRPG story.

Except the fact that they are written as believable human beings with real life problems with Naoto being the only exception. The other games have maybe one character who is nearly as well developed as the worst developed character in 4.

It's at least 15 minutes before, 10 minutes during the dungeon and about 5 minutes after. That's half an hour compared to 2.5 minutes characters get in P5.

>Except the fact that they are written as believable human beings with real life problems
Everyone's problem is a real life problem dumbass

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Ryuji can be both a loudmouth and a chill bro who has your back. He just gets riled up with anything with the phantom thieves. It doesn't contradict or "develop" his character. That's just the way he is. I guess they can do more. Maybe something like referencing events in a dialogue choice.

Doesnt he stop worrying about it later in the game? During the Valentine's date with the boys, he's okay with giving (you) a gift.

Oh I get it, it's just didn't flow as well as I was expecting.

The state of tasteless niggers.

I went 4-3-2-1
My personal ranking is 2=>4=>3>1 although 2 only gets it because I really liked the characters and the setting, combat is fucking ass
5 is probably my favourite game as a whole, but I wish they weren't as standalone and would tie into some greater story.

Yeah no, you're discarding criticism entirely by saying it was in a cool cutscene.

Except that they just sort of bumble into a situation that requires a dumb deadline. So much of P5 is bumbling around and getting into random situations. There is no significant overarching thread binding all the dungeons together in a meaningful way so the deadline for the dungeons fell so arbitrary.

>10 minutes during the dungeon
Lol no, take Rise for example, you find her she is all meh 'life sucks' and stuff then boom she is captured, nothing began there

>he doesn't understand basic Persona metaphors clearly explained to you in P4 extras menu
Not surprised you like P5. You probably only like the menus and the music

Too bad a good chunk of that "development" is ignored by the main story. You can tell Naoto that you like that she's a girl all you want, but she'll always act like that never happened outside of her events. I don't even know what the fuck Arena's implying because it shows shit like Kanji being comfortable with his crafting, but him still having his old Persona.

>Only when you get to the person the arc begins
user, their arcs begin long before their dungeon and there's dialogue relating to that character in their dungeon. The only one it doesn't apply to is Mitsuo.

I liked all of the Persona games, but P5 was my favorite. To each his own though, the world would be a weird place if we were all the same

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>Except that they just sort of bumble into a situation that requires a dumb deadline
Because they were PROACTIVE user
>So much of P5 is bumbling around and getting into random situations.
Again because they were proactive
>There is no significant overarching thread binding all the dungeons together in a meaningful way so the deadline for the dungeons fell so arbitrary.
Yes it does, not getting fucked and changing society is a good one

Why lie like this? I played the fucking game you fool.

I want it to come out, but I also just want ArcSys to make a full on SMT fighter, but because these games all for some reason give a shit about the dumb story we'll never get it

Doesn't she though? In the epilogue, she's dressed in looser clothing.

I wasn't the person who made the original argument, user. I'm just saying that the opposite argument says absolutely nothing whatsoever

Yes, character development in P4 is better than P5. No arguments here. The character development is much better than either of them anyway since you actually get significant time with the character before they develop.

That's the norm with every single Persona game. Doesn't make P5 any less shit.

>leaving societal change to a bunch of teens who think they know the best

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Then you know i am telling the truth , you arrive say to her 'someone will kidnap you' then she says stuff like don't worry, you get out shit happens Namatame got her

>Because they were PROACTIVE user
Not really. Hell Kamoshida's whole arc was just them getting fucked over by him without them actually doing anything.

>since you actually get significant time with the character before they develop.
Literally only Naoto had that, you can debatable say Chie and Yosuke too

This. Everyone's an exaggerated, and often way stupider version of themselves in the main plot and it's a problem.

Ryuji and Anne get all of their character traits dropped except "problem" and "the pretty one" five minutes into introducing Yusuke and his problems and their entire character arcs involve working around those stereotypes. Morgana loses every bit of plot relevance except for complaining once Makoto gets introduced and literally steals every shtick, because you've gotta jerk off the student council president who's in charge of the gang of delinquents. Haru is fucking nobody, don't even pretend she even GETS an arc in the main story.

Its garbage. it's a good thing the gameplay and style is so good noone actually bothered paying attention to the garbage bag story that doesn't pick up until the very end.

Ryuji
>Tells you Kamoshida is a piece of shit and that he abuses his power and no one is willing to take him down
>His Shadow offers him the power to take him down if he agrees to make a vow
>gets persona
Ann
>Cutscens show Kamoshida sexually harassing her and raping her friend
>is prepared to throw away everything to make it happen
>Her shadow whole heartily approves and offers her that opportunity
>she gets her persona
Makoto
>Whole cutscenes show she hates being a lapdog following everyones order and hates overlooking evil
>Her shadow tells her she has to be willing to throw being a goody two shoes away if it means following her ideals of justice
>she accepts the shadow and gets a persona
Persona 4 shows that its all about excepting your shadows. Persona 5 characters did just that.

>Hell Kamoshida's whole arc was just them getting fucked over by him without them actually doing anything.
Did you even play the game ? they were literally going after him, and he only wants to expel them after Ryuji almost punches him

Maybe instead of jumping into conversations you should just read.

>Not really. Hell Kamoshida's whole arc was just them getting fucked over by him without them actually doing anything.
He threatened to kick them out of school because they confronted him about Shiho and Ryuji nearly punched him in the face

>piss > shit

ok

>he can't follow a fucking plot that was literally explained to him
Don't turn this on me because you couldn't be asked to remember the basic story. For someone that hates Persona 5 for its supposed shallowness you couldn't even get Persona 4 story right .

>they were literally going after him
Yes, AFTER he fucked with them.

No after he fucked Shiho

Maybe if you didn't make stupid arguments I wouldn't have to point out how stupid they are

Maybe you should suck my cock faggot

It was literally after he raped Shiho. Kamoshida hadn't done anything directly to Joker by then at all.

The fuck lmao? Not even that user but damn you're mad.

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>Don't turn this on me
So you don't. You really don't know that the games are heavily centered on Carl Jung's philosophy? You really thought the games were just making this shit up? For fucks sake man, P5niggers will never, and I mean NEVER, stop surprising me in their ignorance.

>Proactive
I say they're bumbling around because after Kamoshida they go "so, uh, let's go check out that artist dude because of something we heard in Mementos."
>changing society
Changing the hearts of 5 or so men is not going to change society as a whole. If they really wanted to change society they should be targeting corrupt officials and CEOs (other than Okumura, but the primary catalyst for going after him is his supposed connection to the mental shutdowns, not being a corrupt CEO), not random artists conning people.

>persona fighting game with all persona users
>Nocturne main character is a secret unlockable

3 is undisputable king
5 may have a poor 2nd half but it's better than 4's shitty story tied with "finding myself" when the characters in 3 and 5 find themselves anyway.

>I say they're bumbling around because after Kamoshida they go "so, uh, let's go check out that artist dude because of something we heard in Mementos."
Of course they do, they want a target and they hear rumors of him so they investigate
>Changing the hearts of 5 or so men is not going to change society as a whole. If they really wanted to change society they should be targeting corrupt officials and CEOs (other than Okumura, but the primary catalyst for going after him is his supposed connection to the mental shutdowns, not being a corrupt CEO), not random artists conning people.
The artist was fucking people, that is enough reason to go after him and they also desperately needed a target

I'm a retard and I meant to say "P3 has better development than either of them."

Yo guys chill lmao. The conversation and discussion was pretty well early on but you guys are getting too heated.

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>"so, uh, let's go check out that artist dude because of something we heard in Mementos."
That's literally being proactive dipshit, they're following every lead they can in trying to investigate large targets.

wow such problems. They were "abused" by the most cartoonish villains in the history of fiction, had no lasting consequences and accepted their shadow on the way to the dungeon? That's some FINE ASS storytelling!

>3 is undisputable king
Lol no, 3 was too slow paced and retarded in some parts

>I say they're bumbling around because after Kamoshida they go "so, uh, let's go check out that artist dude because of something we heard in Mementos."
How is that not being proactive.
>We found out information
>Let's act upon that information
No seriously, how is that not proactive?

Are you an idiot or something?
The point was that being in a cool cutscene doesn't invalidate the criticism of p5 that was given to him.

>really don't know that the games are heavily centered on Carl Jung's philosophy?
No really? It wasn't like there were classes for it in both persona 3 and 4.
The whole story requires a catalyst, which was what Izanami did to get the plot moving along. Everyone has shadows, but the shadows were being influenced by Izanami, that was the whole point otherwise you had no reason to go after her.

I want all of SMT including the spinoffs. Like some DDS fighters, Raidou, etc

Not mad, just dislike nigger and P5 fans are predominantly low IQ niggers. I'd rather avoid discussion with them since I know they can't fully understand human speech.

And I'm saying the opposite is true, too. Your point was stupid.

>had no lasting consequences and accepted their shadow on the way to the dungeon?
The friend of one of them is raped forever, the other got a broken leg forever, Makoto is not a lap dog anymore, and they only accept their shadows inside the dungeon

OLD GAME GOOD
NEW GAME BAD

You're just mad i said the truth, how did the rise scene go then faggot, prove me wrong

> had no lasting consequences
>they become phantom thieves for shits and giggles instead of trying to stop evil
> accepted their shadow on the way to the dungeon
did you even play the fucking game?

>thinks other people are stupid
>can't understand the plot for a simply-written easily-understood game that takes the time to overexplain nearly every detail
What did retard-kun mean by this?

>No really?
Yikes. Well, there's nothing to talk about here. You fundamentally misunderstood the core themes of Persona and took things which were an obvious metaphor literally.

>i-it's not stupid! you just don't understand it!
every time

>yikes
You're absolutely right. You probably never even played the game if you couldn't remember we had literal classes discussing that

>I don't get sarcasm
Not that user but fuckin' yikes

>And I'm saying the opposite is true, too
The opposite being that being in a cool cutscene does in fact invalidate the criticism. Which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Whether you like it or not despite sounding similar they aren't equal.

>Makoto is not a lap dog anymore
And now she makes everyone else her lap dog. How the turn tables.

I did, unlike you. They were about as shaken about that abuse as I am when I take an unusually large dump in the morning.

"It's bad because it's happening in a cool cut scene" was what I was mocking all along. I'm sorry you've already forgotten that.

You know that you're saying that the lack of build up and character development is justified by flashy cutscenes, right?

You resolve to risk your life fighting supernatural creatures and fight against all of society itself because you had a large dump? Whatever floats your boat.

Well, my bad. I didn't think someone could be aware of that and still misunderstand the game that badly. I assumed that you aren't that mentally retarded but as I said - p5niggers just keep surprising me.

>"It's bad because it's happening in a cool cut scene" was what I was mocking all along
Which no one ever said.

>no you
Jesus thats just pathetic.

>they also desperately needed a target
The best they could do was a conartist? Really no other person they can think of who's a bad person?
A conartist is not a large target, and you'd think that a site a popular as their would have people complaining about men who are much worse than him.

Shiho literally had to go through therapy and then moved schools because of the rumors about her
Ryuji can't even run right and his chances at a track scholarship are toast

SMT4A was both.

Yeah, I play some games. Not like what P5 characters had to do was difficult. They literally fought evil blueberry man.

Sex with Nanako

Yes, if you go back through the reply chain. That's why I said "I'm sorry you've already forgotten that."
No I'm saying that just because a scene is flashy doesn't mean there's no character development.

Brainlet

>A conartist is not a large target
If you're referring to Madarame, he literally has the entire Japanese art scene under his grip and is rich enough to be a significant financial backer to Shido's conspiracy.

>he best they could do was a conartist? Really no other person they can think of who's a bad person?
He was famous as fuck and did bad stuff

we both know you only watched cutscenes. Because you know absolutely nothing about the dungeons, characters, and plot.

>PT makes a cripple who can barely run go run uphill on a sinking ship to get the lifeboat
What the fuck, I thought they were friends.

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Fucking hell you're retarded.
They were saying the awakenings were bad in p5 because they're all rushed with next to no build up not because they were in a cool cutscene.

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>if you go back through the reply chain
Which only leads to your post assuming that people were calling it bad because it was in a cool cutscene.

>A conartist is not a large target,
>he says as the dialogue and npcs shown that he drove one insane and and another to bankruptcy
>as he was abusing children for monetary gain

Persona 3 real issue is the pacing.
Goddamn 2 months of nothing is what kills me to replay the game

>they're all rushed with next to no build up
Well that's obviously not true so there must be another reason.

> just because a scene is flashy doesn't mean there's no character development
You're right, the fact that there's no character development before they get their persona means there's none and that was said before you mentioned the "cool" cutscenes.

As much as I love 3, December's such a fucking slog to get through. You at least get Memories of the City playing during January and the bodies lying around every to heighten the atmosphere, but it's a long final stretch to get to that sweet finish line.

>the fact that there's no character development before they get their persona
The whole point of the scene of them getting their persona is the character development

Right here since you can't follow a reply chain properly.
>They were saying the awakenings were bad in p5 because they're all rushed with next to no build up
But that's not true
>he fact that there's no character development before they get their persona
Everyone has character development before they get their persona, even Joker

P3 really needs a remake to iron out its pacing issues and janky developments. Would BTFO every other Persona if it was redone in the P5 engine.

On what planet is that character development? They just get angry and that's it.

>have to buy a vita tv or whatever just to play the definitive version
Sucks because I want to see how it holds up now that I've played a ton of SMT.

Holy shit user did you even watch the scenes ? listen to what their personas are telling them

>Right here # since you can't follow a reply chain properly.
That's your poor interpretation you idiot.
This is where it starts and no one says anything about cutscenes.

>A character has a burst of emotion and challenges something that once opposed them
>How is this character development
Seriously, how is it not

>character development can only happen in the flashy cutscene
Who's the easily distracted retard again?

>That's your poor interpretation you idiot.
It was me saying the opposite of the argument I linked to, user. Don't get upset just because you couldn't find it.

Yeah, you don't remember much about P5.

>Seriously, how is it not
Because they don't develop?
If they start as a happy go lucky fool and get their powers because they're a happy go lucky fool then they aren't evolving as a character.

The only one that did was Futaba because she's the only member that had a dungeon.

How do you guys keep failing?

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Since everyone's busy shitposting "SMT > Persona" yet clearly haven't played them since they didn't understand your question... no it doesn't get better especially if you want to do all the sidequests. You get a feel for it as you play obviously but I recommend not trying to 100% it. SMTIV: A tweaked it a bit to be less annoying.

>Because they don't develop?
>If they start as a happy go lucky fool and get their powers because they're a happy go lucky fool then they aren't evolving as a character.
You idiot, they literally act different before and after the persona

Oh, figured the last few posts were you Eric.

>If they start as a happy go lucky fool and get their powers because they're a happy go lucky fool
Okay but we're talking about Persona 5 here, not the made up game in your head.

BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY BABY YEAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>Because they don't develop?
But they do develop.
>If they start as a happy go lucky fool and get their powers because they're a happy go lucky fool then they aren't evolving as a character.
But this doesn't describe anyone in P5 at all?
>The only one that did was Futaba because she's the only member that had a dungeon.
Everyone goes through character development when they get their personas, not just Futaba. That's a really silly thing to say

Who the fuck is Eric ?

How were they the same? give me a character

>they literally act different before and after the persona
No, no they don't. Especially Ryuji and Makoto.

That was my only post in this thread tho.

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Yes they do, Makoto stop being pushed around with even going and telling the principal to stop using her as a lap dog and Ryuji acts even more openly about how he is

>Who's the easily distracted retard again?
Clearly you seeing as you're making shit up that no one ever said.

Makoto especially acts completely different, what the heck are you talking about? She goes from a goody-goody to actively defying her sister. Ryuji less so, but he certainly goes from lying back and taking it to actively wanting to take down Kamoshida. Also he's a real loner before he awakens to his persona and has no friends, after that he's much more open.

Dumb user not using 4chanX, that was the first post of him

You might not want to reply to the same post twice especially if both imply ownership of the linked one.

>Ryuji
>bullied by Kamoshido
>lashes out at everyone
>given up on his dreams
>gets persona
>latches on to MC
>slowly wants to get /fit/ again
>argues with the teamates who kicked him to the curb
>but still helps em out instead of telling them to fuck off
Makoto
>Teachers pet
>does as she's told
>even when it's plainly obvious they are in the wrong
>gets persona
>cuts off ties with the principal
>Stops kissing ass and starts taking her job as president seriously without the backing of the school
They clearly developed

>implying 4chanX stops proxies
And you're calling him dumb.

>Implying Yea Forums is smart enough to use proxies

user, all of our biggest shitposters use proxies. Especially guys like Eric and Listfag.

>incapable of understanding something that's openly stated to him
No wonder you don't understand P5