It's like an RTS, only that you're controlling one unit

micro in RTS games doesn't fucking matter for 95% of players. macro can carry you all the way. mobas are pure micro so it's a totally different game, you can't compare.

"low skill cap" but you'll never in your lifetime be able to achieve what the top players achieve

Well, many RTS degenerated to a point where the strategy of rushing units and having your heroes or elite units wreck havoc while your lowest tier units are just bait was just the way to go and doing anything else was a waste of time.

Take Heroes of Annihilated Empires for example. Your hero is so strong and has so much AoE spells that your units are just clutter (you can also summon units yourself so building a base is useless). In the most difficult scenarios where you're force to defend a base you just need centaurs to tank for days while enemy mobs try to rush so the other 8 or whatever types of units you have can be ignored.

Spellforce is very similar. Take your heroes and use some cheap units as distraction and start taking everybody down.

So, seeing how RTS are uncapable of balancing this, they made it automatic, so you only need the heroes to play (yes, not all RTS are like this but many have this problem).

its closer to pvp aRPG than rts

>you can turn your brain off
Oh so this mentality is why i'm always full of retards in my teams kek. Usually I 1v9 every game in league when I can (favorable match ups who give me the win con). I must say in today's league match up is what makes 90% of the game, if you have the right MU you can literally carry alone. They nerfed the single player snowballing/impact and that's also why off-meta build became trash/completely unplayable in recebt seasons when in the past the skill was more important than the champion statistics itself, while now you can also be for example the best Ashe in the world you will likely lose to a mediocre Kaisa/Yuumi bot alone for the champion difference.
Retards inting/trolling/not having a brain sure help losing games though. Altough I must admit enemies are also retarded too, that's why I usually have 10+ kills and less thab five death every game although I lose often, because in certain games I can't carry. So on the end: I always play extremely good, if I win, I win because i 1v9'd, if I lose, I lose for not have been able to 1v9, while i find retards every game (in enemy team too, although, again, they win for Champion difference alone).

RTS was too elitist and difficult for casual audiences and RPG and tower defense games were fucking booming

Mobas are a cross of WRPG, RTS and Action PvP. Altough they directly descends from classical RTS, to the point they were indeed called action RTS (aRTS) in the past.

>"Low skill cap"
>Also thinks forced winrates are real
okay shitter

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You just described ever team game ever. If you want to be "competitive" in a game than you find other players to team with. Clans, squads, guilds, etc. In CSS we used to have scrims and go to lans. In wow we used to have guild websites where people would apply and they would be trialled so we knew they weren't compete retards.

Problem is with all these "competitive" games, the publishers and developers have taken over what used to be a system that was organised by the community. Now people only care about gear score or ELO or whatever metric the developers have imposed upon the community.

top players grind the game 8 hours a day and climb by understanding the meta, ranking and statistics
all of that requires amount of time that most people simply don't have due to work and social life
funny how you don't quite find a whole lot of top pro-players outside of occasional freak talents and geniuses that can take a fresh account and get into the highest ranking brackets in extremely short period of time

the whole reason people hate these casual games with competitive element is that you are rewarded for simply playing a lot rather than playing well

You can blame your teammates to deny your own failures and limitations.

>play warcraft 3
>get cucked
>the other player is cheating, rushing, maphacking, tryharding, lag, imbalance, got lucky with items, etc
You can maintain that delusion for years (or until you die) but maybe someday you will realize about your own limitations and accept that.

>play dota
>get cucked
>the other players is cheating, use scripts, maphacking, tryharding, lag, imbalance, boosting, account buyer, etc
But it's gets better
>my support/mid/carry is feeding, can't last hit, can't deny, didn't use his skills, didn't look the map, steal the courier, didn't save me, don't ward, don't deward, get bkb, peruvian/pinoys/russians, forced 50/50, etc
With a moba you get a tons of new excuses before having to look at yourself.

because RTS is a shitty genre and only turbo autists can get any good at them so they needed to invent a spinoff genre for normal people to prevent it from dying

Don't forget the rampant drug use in the e-sports and streaming communities.

>300 apm
>240 of that is used to tab between units and spam move/attack noce

>that you are rewarded for simply playing a lot rather than playing well

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The real question is, why it's like an RTS in the first place? Top down perspective and mouse-based controls make sense when you need to control multiple units at the same time, but MOBAs are pretty much action games, why not treat it as such?

so boosting and smurfing doesnt exist, gotcha

>difficult enough to play even by high profile RTS players
>difficult enough that only a bunch of people make it to the top
if it's so easy why aren't you guys competing professionally and getting rich from it? checkmate

I don't want to be competitive. It's not worth to waste all this time to be a "pro" on a game for which I am already too old.
What I am saying it's they made statistics alone too relevant compared to the skill. This is also why most mages aren't so strong right now (where every one of them builds the slow augment rune) and auto attackers are incredibly brain dead and strong. Like, with the right support and MU, adcs don't even need actual micro, they can face tank every damage without dodging a shit and then sustain it back and kill every thing because they have the bulk and the unavoidable damage. They lowered the skill in recent years, yes. It is mostly macro, but again, of this macro, 90% is pic decision making/luck (you know sometimes it really is a coinflip)

B-but I don't have time. If I had... I can easily win everything and make millions of dollars!

It's not even that.
>It's competitive team-based tower defense, while you power-level a hero unit

It's not that it's inherently easy, or devoid of challenge, it's that it is the most unfun fucking concept ever born from pen meeting paper.

>It's competitive team-based tower defense, while you power-level a hero unit
you're talking about LTD, not assfaggots

dota was the best lan game

youtube.com/watch?v=12vh55_1ul8

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No need to macro or to have high APM or IQ to be competitive
Can blame it on teammates if you suck
Free game
The "promisse" of e-sports even though only people that play it enjoy watching

Don't forget to square selection box over and over on your workers during the first minutes

>Fingerless moba players that don't understand the point of doing that and never saw the APM during big fights on BW

Don't forget to put one worker om every selection group and spam 1-9

Is it me or do all MOBAs look the same?

All of those are still a thing.
Just admit you are bad it’s fine.

That's my point though, aspiring to be a professional video game player is the saddest shit possible.

>funny how you don't quite find a whole lot of top pro-players outside of occasional freak talents and geniuses that can take a fresh account and get into the highest ranking brackets in extremely short period of time
There are people who can do this that aren't even pro players.

All of those are certainly a thing but the developers and publishers have attempted to take from them and fucked alot of communities up in the process. I don't play team games that much anymore because I'm too old to play games with my friends. If I play games I normally play a slower game like kenshi or something. Most of my time spent with friends is eating out or random social functions. I think I play board games more with my friends than I do video games.

>Already moving goalposts
user it’s fine to be bad at video games.

The same way CS got popular. Removing a lot of the skill and putting brainlets in a ball pit with other brainlets.

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This. Hate when retards make that stupid comparison.

MOBAs are not "RTS lite" and the fans of either genre are not interchangeable. They're not compatible on any level. Two entirely different genres.

>bad at video games

I dunno, half of these games I play have a huge difficulty curve. You been playing much kenshi dude?

Less autistic micro, more macro. MOBA overthrew RTS because RTS focused on dexterity instead of strategic thinking. What MOBAs offered were an alternative, lower the required micro, pace of the game and increase the importance of information and thought.

Thats why calling SC2 and the like "strategy" is false at best and dishonest at worst.

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>it's like an RTS
How to identify somebody that has never played a MOBA. RTS and MOBA play nothing alike and nobody has ever felt the desire to play a RTS and then started up a MOBA, or vice versa. Just because MOBAs originated in StarCraft custom maps doesn't mean that the genre isn't something completely different from RTS.

for me it's Teamfight Tactics .

>it's like an RTS
lol, I can tell you never played diddly.

It's like saying fighting games require less mechanical skill than RTS games because you (generally) only control 1 unit/character.

In any case, it combines RTS with RPGs, along with far more variables and potential variation. That's why it got popular.

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