What retcons have there been since DS1 so far?

What retcons have there been since DS1 so far?

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The conditions for going Hollow have changed from each game, for starters.

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In DS2*

None. None of the games have ever been direct sequels.

Not really a retcon but the Chosen Undead not killing Gwyndolin seems to be the 'canon' path, given that Gwyndolin is alive long enough to get vored by Aldrich in 3.

Not the same universe / timeline.

Only things I can think of are that the Chosen Undead canonically linked the fire and Gwyndolin/Priscilla canonically not having died to the player

ds3 is a direct sequel to ds1

Chosen undead doesn't kill Gwyndolin
Ashen one is an undead but he doesn't go hollow the normal way because he is an unkindled
Chosen undead linked the flame after Gwyn
Logan doesn't go hollow during the events of DS1, he wrote some scrolls after that
Killing the bed of chaos doesn't turn off the chaos flame, the witches of the profaned capital did that.
Quelana doesn't go hollow during the events of DS1. She died after the witches of the profaned capital burned the city, protecting her sister.
Chosen undead doesn't kill Priscilla, Priscilla got married and has a daughter, Yorshka.
Gwynevere actually leaves Anor Londo before DS1 events to go to Lothric, marry Oceiros and have three children, Lorian, Lothric and Ocelotte. Between leaving Anor Londo and marrying Oceiros, Gwynevere has Rosaria, the dancer, the girl that dies in the tower with the winged guardians and the Ringed City girl.

Now, a lot of this depends of what timeline we're talking about and time lines in Dark Souls universe are so way too weird, so whatever sounds logical to you, it works.

>None of the games have ever been direct sequels.
the fuck are you talking about?
DaS2 establishes that its the same universe with a repeating cycle of similar events.

That being said, the age of fire was supposed to end in DaS, but the idea of cycles was introduced in II to produce more sequels.

Remember, user: 90% of the people posting here have not actually played/completed any of the games, and are just regurgitating wikis, YouTube videos, and "common knowledge". Thus a lot of complete nonsense.

Miyazaki was pushed by publishers to make 2 sequels, and he wrote dark souls to be self contained

The creator himself has hinted that you can safely ignore the sequels and I would recommend that you do so if you really care about the lore

why does this argument not hold weight when it comes to all the similar examples of "its similar but very different" in DS3 like seigmeyer (who is a failure and a coward that waits for you to do everything) vs seigward (who is actually competent and helps you out multiple times)

its the same character design with the same voice actor only his name is slightly different, its just a reference the same way as every game having the MLGS

cont.

Both Dark Souls II and III "retcon" very little. What made a lot of YouTube "analysts" sperg out is that a lot of their own headcanon/made up bullshit has been dismissed.

So… a character is "the same" because he has the same voice/armour but:
- a different personality,
- different religion,
- different history,
- different character arc,
- different interactions,

Yep, the same.

>The creator himself has hinted that you can safely ignore the sequels
Where?

cont.
Oh, and the armour is simply the traditional armour from Catarina, as witnessed in DS I, where two different characters wear it.

>Gwynevere actually leaves Anor Londo before DS1 events to go to Lothric
Didn't she left with some god?

Once again, dear user: ignore the bullshit spouted here. The games are surprisingly coherent if you just blot out the "lore" of various YouTube morons which as become "common knowledge".

Yep, Flam. As I've posted multiple Times, 90% of what people write about Dark Souls lore is pure headcanon derived from YouTube.

How did Catarina and Astora survive a whole bunch of 'cycles' when so many places like Lordran and Drangleic haven't even retained their names? It's almost like they just wanted to pander and you really shouldn't give a shit about the story in these games.

>le darkness
>le darkness again
>le darkness for a third time!

its phoned in trash

>Gwyn went from being a tragic hero/antihero to the main villain of the series because they turned him into a powerhungry scared old man

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This is good stuff. Though DS2 offers enough on it's own and the tie in to DS1 feels tacked on and unsatisfying. It should've been more original.

Nothing everything is perfect in 3. Glory to Londor.

What cycles? The whole concept has been made up by Youtubers, who like to ignore little facts like, for example, that even before the events of Dark Souls I there has already been an Age of Dark. Kaathe states as much in your first conversation with him.

Astora didn't survive and the Elite Knight set + all Astora weapons are noted to be relics, with Anri in the EK set being an Astora LARPer. Catarina you could reason as Siegward being time-displaced or having failed to link the fire back around when Yhorm successfully did I guess

something something flow of time

The only good lore channel I can honestly recommend is Hawkshaw. Although he focuses only on Dark Souls I, he completely shats on the moronic "lore" of people like VaatiVidya, EpicNameBro, AGermanSpy and the other idiots out there.

>The whole concept has been made up by Youtubers,
DS3 completely hinges on there having been cycles of Undead curse waves and resultant heroes going off to link the fire (becoming the Lords of Cinder), and the game caps off on the next Age of Dark coming no matter what.

You've never played the games. Dark Souls II has very little to do with the concept of Dark, and if anything, presents it in a much more positive, or at least neutral, light.

No. There are no cycles. There is one, continuous, Age of Dark, which is constantly interrupted/warped by various methods throughout history by agents/puppets of Frampt.

cont.
Which is the entire source of misery in the world. Because the Age of Dark is constantly interrupted and then restarted, it can never truly end, and be replaced with a new age. Which is why, by the end of DS3, the Painter Girl literally has to create a new world where people can escape.

if you've ever cared about the story in a dark souls game on a level beyond "I find this npc charming" you have terminal brain damage

>Gwyn went from being a tragic hero/antihero to the main villain of the series because they turned him into a powerhungry scared old man

Explain this?

It was all but outright stated that Solaire was Gwynn’s son

You’re just too stupid to get it.

Solaire is also actually the Nameless King because le strange flow of time.

>There is one, continuous, Age of Dark
What, no. The entire series is about the Age of Fire either coming to an end or being artificially prolonged, and DS3 continues under the assumption that it was prolonged in DS1 and continues to be so. If it were an Age of Dark it would probably still continue on with the shuffling hollows in DS1's opening. Until the ending of DS3 there has not been an Age of Dark since before the Lord Souls were found.

Lowering your life bar upon each death was fucking dumb. For what fucking purpose? Besides making the game harder for yourself i guess. They could have done the invasion mechanic same as 1 and not lower your life pool

>demon souls
- lose half your health when you die unless you wear a ring
>dark souls 1
- absolutely no penalty for dying so people have 0 reason to become human and open themselves up to being invaded
>dark souls 2
- gradually lose max health as you die until your health reaches 50%
>dark souls 3
- lose about 20% of your health when you die

only one game works this way

Gwyn is a Zeus expy and is completely horrified of having his power challenged in any way. In DS1 he throws himself into the First Flame to prolong the Age of Fire, in DS3 it shows he also had a tremendous case of the ass against Dark (his elemental opposite) as well, quarantining the Furtive Pygmy, his descendants, his servants, and the first immortal humans he created onto a crescent island. The Darksign and the Undead Curse are shown to be directly Gwyn's fault as an imperfect seal of fire placed on Man to keep them deaf and dumb to their being Dark creatures, and the curse is that seal not working properly and letting through a few undying men.

So who is, or was, Gael a slave to? Is it implied that he ate literally everyone?

that's mostly a mistranslation, it's supposed to be Slav Knight

can someone explain the actual story and world of these games to me? I always play these games but it pisses me off that the story makes no sense. It's not just vague, it's actually so extremely vague that it becomes bad, and normally I like vague stories.

for example, in bloodborne, there's a town full of living people, but all their houses are impossible to walk to. they have carriages and wooden shit everywhere, but where do they get the wood? none of the trees in the forest are chopped down. and who's the wiseass that's placing tombstones on every square inch of cobblestone in the city?

in dark souls its the same damn thing, they all talk like the world needs to be restored, as though it isn't always a lifeless sack of shit. but who is crafting all their magic gear? who's building all the castles and dungeons? why is this vast, impressive kingdom full of all kinds of unimaginable wonders so hard to actually picture anything happening in it?

worst of all is the implication that all the monsters used to be human or whatever, and they only get more monsterly by eating extra humans. where are all these humans coming from? I don't understand any of this shit. it's so vague that it actually takes me out of the game and almost deliberately ruins my immersion. it blows my mind

One of a legion of undead Slave Knights sent out as expendable fighters, by who or what isn't said. Made it to the Painted World and swore fealty in there. Yeah it's pretty much stated that he killed everyone and everything in the world to reassemble the Dark Soul, when you meet up with him there's only one scrap of humanity left to add to the pile.

He kind of looks the part

That's pretty cool idea. Everyone thinking about how dark will fucked them up but it just ends with a guy cannibalizing the known world. I would've appreciated the main story more if it took a more original twist to the formula like this instead of treading familiar ground. You can argue that it didn't but it sure felt like it to me.

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>Gael killed everyone
I’ve heard this retarded nonsense before. This is obviously false since the Firekeeper, Andre and others are very much alive after you defeat Gael.

Did it go over your head that enough time passed after you touched Filianore's orb for the Ringed City to be buried under an impossible amount of dust, and Filianore herself is skeletonized?

so after the chosen undead links the flame in ds1 that is it? there was no one between him and the ashen one who got that far? aren't the ashen ones around because all the undead with humanity/dark soul have been exhausted? isn't the soul if cinder a combination of all the people who linked the flame, if it was just gwyn and 1 chosen undead they why does it fight with many styles and use magic and stuff? sorry, i play the games a ton but never really follow the story that close.

>so after the chosen undead links the flame in ds1 that is it? there was no one between him and the ashen one who got that far?
No, there've been a huge number of people to link the fire between then and now. Ashen Ones are a defense-mechanism of the First Flame to ensure the fire is linked. The Lords of Cinder are revived and are the first wave of Ashen Ones, but because they fucked off the unkindled are resurrected to force the Lords to do their jobs.

>the Ringed City girl
Filianore? She's Gwynevere's sister, not her daughter.

God I was so fucking mad about this
>Tragic hero and bastion of civilisation in the first game
>haha no actually he was evil and the gods hated humans *tips fedora* m'yazaki :)

they had onion armor

Eh the only thing that makes it iffy now is that Solaire had no indication of any relationships with dragons.

this was always true even in DS1. kaathe is right and the link the fire ending in ds1 is deliberately underwhelming for a reason.

>Quelana doesn't go hollow during the events of DS1. She died after the witches of the profaned capital burned the city, protecting her sister.
Where did you even got this from? When does she even go hollow in the first game?

>Ashen Ones are a defense-mechanism of the First Flame to ensure the fire is linked
I'm going to disagree and suggest that Ashen Ones/Unkindled are Undead created artificially by some fire-worshipping group, probably Lothric. They're brought back deliberately by ringing the Bell of Awakening to do a specific job, in a big graveyard and temple complex that looks as if it belongs to Lothric. I think even the First Flame itself is trying to an hero at this point, given that the Soul of Cinder tries to stop the Ashen One from lighting it.

But he has also vored nito, who you must kill canonically

>Astora
Literally did not survive. It's in ruins by the time of DaS3. Anri just put on a suit of elite knight armour and said they were from Astora because it's a real impressive, legendary place.

>Catarina
Might be fucked and gone by the time of DaS3. We only ever see Siegward, who's an Ashen One who's been dead for who knows how long.

>Lordran/Drangleic
Lordran's name is still remembered in what's probably myth and prayer, given that the Fire Keeper mentions it. Drangleic not being mentioned is a deliberate choice, because they make lots of allusions to DaS2 in 3 but leave it really vague as to whether it's strictly canon or not.

the earthen peak windmill must be super strong to have survived until the end time!

He was right to be afraid of the Dark, though. He couldn't have foreseen that it would just end up in the degeneration of the world.
In case you didn't got it, Kaathe and later the Locust Preachers were talking half-truths and attempting to decieve and convince you to snuff out the flame, so their feast can begin.
Kaathe in particular is one of the greediest characters in the game, wanting only Humanity from the player, and as the rings state, the Serpents are imperfect dragons that are symbols of greed and avarice.
There are a great deal of morally grey characters in the series, but Gwyn, despite his subjugation of humans, is definitely pure of motive and self-sacrificing, he didn't even kicked out his Firstborn, that happened after his sacrifice, presumably overseen by Gwyndolin when he took over.

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they just didn't think this through

>implying any of you understand a goddamn thing about dark souls
Ive tried having conversations with you ingrates here before, im not falling for that one again
Last time someone tried to tell me that humans can become gods by conquering Sens fortress
Fucking lol

>Last time someone tried to tell me that humans can become gods by conquering Sens fortress
>Fucking lol
Isn't that how Gywn's knights were trained?

The part with DaS is just copying from DeS but without the Old One, the Colorless Fog, and people turning to Demons' souls to explain anything, instead it's muh fire muh dragons muh lords

no

Then what's with all the Silver Knight statues? The whole area just feels like a reference to Windknight's Lot from Phantom Blood, not to mention one of the friendly phantoms there is called Tarkus, like a character related to that place.
IIRC at least, in one of the artbooks, it's said that Kirk's armor design is based of the 77 Rings challenge, so there was some influence in there.

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>muh tax policy

I really like the idea that Sen's Fortress was for training Silver Knights but I'd hesitate to say it's absolute canon. I was under the impression that Sen's was constructed explicitly for testing 'chosen' Undead, but given that it used to (presumably) lead to the city proper through the gate maybe it does predate the chosen undead obstacle course.

The Parish's bell was re-purposed to be part of the Undead Challenge, so I don't see why an old, unused training ground would not be.
I wouldn't say the Knights of Gwyn were literal gods, but there seems to be a distinction between them and a normal human, and the bequeathing of souls as part of an oath isn't uncommon, as what happened with Seath and the Four Kings.

I think the Silver Knights were literally gods, but in the sense that they belong to the same the race of humanoids as the actual Gods and Lords. They're tall, narrow headed and weak to dark. There were something like legions of them, so even if they are small g gods there's probably still enough of them that they need training like any rank and file soldier.