You may not like it, but this is what peak action gaming looks like

Bayonetta is basically a more shallow DMC.

except that it's nothing like DMC

I personally put W101 in over God Hand in my Top 3 but that's because W101 is the better total package game. God Hand has fantastic mechanics though so that's no issue.

Rachel is a distinct and enjoyable moveset, her chapters don't overstay their welcome because they're so straight forward, and playing as her makes her feel less like a worthless damsel in the story. Only negative is her run cycle being goofy as hell.

Attached: 1560176878997.png (329x376, 249K)

Aces Wild and Aztez are fantastic games from the last few years from western Indies, and Fight'N Rage has great- feeling combat despite being more of a traditional beat em up.

>peepee hard so it gud
Go outside

You can chose not to pummel enemies in God Hand. You get oh ko'd when you miss the qte in Bayonetta.

oh is that what i said? You colossal cunt.

did you even play god hand or are you a retarded poser? GH has qtes beyond pummels

Haven't played the latter two, but man Aces Wild's counter-spam did a number on my keyboard.
I'd have to play more to have a definite opinion, I may have just played like a retard, but from what I played it had some pacing issues with having to keep your Glass Cannon gauge at max and spam the shit out of counters to do noticeable damage to non-standard enemies, and then endgame they start just filling corridors with them.

Not him. God Hand is straight garbage but there's only one legitimate QTE in God Hand off the top of my head. Things, like pummel are not QTE, they are context sensitive actions.

do you mean the demons getting behind you or someone grabbing you? I can't think of anything else now
that's not a guaranteed oh ko and you can simply run away, dodge, (turn around and) punch them or activate god hand, so it's not a qte

And DMC5 has V's absolute snorefest missions, but it's still on there

It is a QTE.

That's mostly true to be fair. The game is willing to really throw everything and the kitchen sink too at you of you play above the lowest difficulty, especially with how it uses dynamic difficulty like God Hand. I mostly enjoy it for how unique it feels among other action games. It had the floaty, air-focused combat of Otogi but in 2D, with a focus on bouncing enemies around rooms like pinballs rather than keeping them in one combo forever.

V's playstyle is great.

Deadpool was....eh

V is exciting on higher difficulties, the only parts that suck are Nidhogg and whichever boss you do first in M14.

>there's only one legitimate QTE in God Hand off the top of my head
almost every single enemy in the game has a grab that requires a qte to escape.
>Things, like pummel are not QTE, they are context sensitive actions
they can be classified as both since they are context sensitive but still require you to mash keys after activation.

grab escapes.
>that's not a guaranteed oh ko
and? it's still a quick time event with a failure state.
and on that note both bayo and god hand have forced minigames too

If there are more ways to avoid it than the one that prompts up on the screen, it isn't.
Otherwise you could argue that anything in action games are QTEs.

LOL

Define QTE.

>makes her feel less like a worthless damsel in the story

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>Fight'N Rage
I really want to get into it but the stiff controls are damn hard to get used to.

fuck off gamer

I feel like it'd be great in most other action games, but Dante and Nero's gameplay is so fucking good V is just shit by comparison.

Assassin's Creed and the Arkham series

And they're awful

God Hand is overrated and repetitive.

You don't know what QTE means.

Technically even the demon teleport behind and the suplex grab are context sensitive actions and not QTEs, but in practice the nature of the timings and AI behavior make effectively make them a QTE.

>>makes her feel less like a worthless damsel in the story.
>I LOVE WHEN WOMEN ARE MORE POWERFUL THAN MEN

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>god hand
Troll image shitpost attempt.

>>God Hand is overrated and repetitive.
>*plays the millionth 'drive around town and follow that person' mission in GTA*

>If there are more ways to avoid it than the one that prompts up on the screen, it isn't
Wrong

>Otherwise you could argue that anything in action games are QTEs
No, there is clearly a distinction

Replace DMC5 with MGR

>enjoyable moveset
disagree here. It's slow as fuck and thus the only actions worth a damn are her grabs until you can chain UT everything to death.
Also FUCK GAMOV

I'm not talking about demon grab for fucks sake. I'm talking about all the "waggle stick to escape" and press "O to reverse suplex" grabs. These are literally qtes

I hate that V has retroactively ruined DMC5 for me. I just sucked it up every time it came to a V level but looking back, I remember those lows more than I remember the highs with Nero and Dante.

Elaborate.

almost every single enemy in any action game has attacks that requires a qte to escape.
they can be classified as both since they are context sensitive but still require you to do a certain action after activation to avoid game over.
>attacks aren't guaranteed oh ko's
and? it's still a quick time event with a failure state (having less hp than before).

>and on that note both bayo and god hand have forced minigames too
that's not the point

Still less repetitive than the 500th telegraphed fight in God Hand against 3-4 dudes where it's "dodge kick dodge sweep dive dive roulette combo combo DP Tatsu."

Yes, action games can usually be mastered - especially one as old as Godhand

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>almost every single enemy in any action game has attacks that requires a qte to escape
what the fuck are you even talking about?
the point is that god hand has qtes in the form of grab escapes on almost every single enemy. it doesn't fucking matter what other games do since this discussion is solely about god hand

What is so awful about V's playstyle exactly?

Yes, he is the most barebones character, but his gimmick totally works and he still has the least missions in the game. He was a fun experiment.

A timed, variable button prompt that allows the player to do an action that is otherwise unavailable to him/her outside of the context of said prompt and incurs a penalty for failing to do so.

Key words being timed and variable. However there is a grey area between QTEs and CSAs (i'm coining this right now) and that's how much emphasis is put on the timing, if enough of strain is put on the timing a QTE can effectively become a CSA. There are other factors like if the prompt is preceded by proper, registrable signal to the player.

Attached: Context Sensitive Actions.webm (900x506, 2.94M)

By memorizing the same bread and butter combo and just spamming it until the game ends.
My favorite part is where the best moves in the game don't even involve the roulette or the movelist, the thing the game is advertised for. Instead you can just use them with an input and they all combo into everything else, have massive AOE for some reason, and can all stunlock. Resulting in those Mike Kob videos where he just goes "headslip->cancel->jumpkick->cancel->headslip->cancel->jumpkick" for like twenty seconds and people are supposed to think that's exhilarating gameplay.

Meanwhile in Ninja Gaiden Black, if I use the same move more than three times the Enemies rightfully block it, because why would they get hit by something I used more than a few times in a row if they're supposedly experienced martial artists?

it's to show you, how the way you loosely call everything a QTE can be applied on almost every attack in any not turn based game, making the term meaningless

I agree with you about NGB doing it better, but how many games are on its quality level?

god bless you niggeranon

>he is the most barebones character
you just said it. A barebones character a game built entirely around combowank doesn't work well.

and god hand has those in the form of waggle stick or mash button AFTER being grabbed.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DEMON GRAB FFS. I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL THE OTHER GRABS

NGB and that's it

>V's playstyle is bad

End this meme.

youtube.com/watch?v=rJcrH2JKuwM

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V's playstyle is bad.

God Hand is a good example of how pushing the timing factor can turn a context sensitive action into a quick time event. Normally waggle the sticks is not a QTE but in God Hand it is.

God Hand as a whole is an example on how to fuck up player response time balance.

>Fight'n'Rage
>stiff
What?

Attached: bouncy Gal.webm (346x518, 1.01M)

>makes her feel less like a worthless damsel in the story.
go back to trannyera, faggot

Your playstyle is bad!

god hand was too good for its own sake
=(

I don't know, that loop is making me feel pretty stiff.

>I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DEMON GRAB FFS. I'M TALKING ABOUT ALL THE OTHER GRABS
You still throw around the word QTE inflationary.

>and god hand has those in the form of waggle stick or mash button AFTER being grabbed.
and every other games has attacks you have to dodge AFTER you are in area that will be attacked, so any attack is a QTE

>Meanwhile in Ninja Gaiden Black, if I use the same move more than three times the Enemies rightfully block it

Let's not make things up now.

Attached: f5a7bbf93ce1.jpg (600x397, 42K)

Meant for

>Normally waggle the sticks is not a QTE
yes it fucking is. It's a timed action, that requires a specific input which is shown on screen and if that input is not performed, causes a failure state.

hard to explain but it just feels stiff to me.

I enjoy weighty, slower movesets personally, although I'm not the majority there. I enjoy that she is focused on grabs as well, and that she has more limited uses of Ninpo, but said Ninpo is very strong. I thought Gamov was a cool fight but he was also really irritating to work around to be fair.

Mostly, I just don't think Sigma loses anything by having her playable for less than 10% of the game.

probably because of how fucking good most of NG is, so all the weak parts weigh it down all the more

But the input is always the same, it almost always follows a heavily telegraphed action and it usually has lenient timing often compensated by a damage over time property. It's become such a prevalent mechanic that often times there is not even a prompt. As much as i hate it, it makes sense on a human reaction level, can't really find the words to explain it better. Get grabbed/stuck > Flail around and wiggle yourself free. That's different from a random button popping up on screen to do a random action not normally associated with that button.

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>Being so much of a faggot you samefag 3 times in a row

Jesus

>But the input is always the same
so what. qtes don't need random inputs to be considered one. bayonettas qtes for example are always consistent too
>it almost always follows a heavily telegraphed action
not really. those grabs are on par with the speed of the rest of the moveset if not even faster sometimes.
>often compensated by a damage over time property
only for the bitchslap and knee kicking. every other grab is a small escape window with a single big hit in damage on failure.

>It's slow as fuck

If by Slow as fuck you mean literally as fast as the Dragon Sword, sure. But keep blaming the game for your inadequacies.

>getting filtered by Gamov
lol

Preach it Rachel brother

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>so what. qtes don't need random inputs to be considered one
Read my original post

Actually read all of my posts because i am literally talking about that mechanic as a whole in video games and specifically mentioned God Gand as one of the exceptions,

>getting filtered by Gamov
he's not hard since you can counterspam him to death. doesn't make him any less shit though

then you definition is fucking wrong i guess.
even the fucking name itself doesn't imply anything about varied inputs

Yes, because we all know that the name is what counts when defining something.

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i don't fucking care what your own invented definition is you moron. the name of qte already describes it perfectly and your additions are pulled out of your own ass

>dmc5
>good combat

You're right, it should be *amazing combat.

>I don't care about rationalizing things just put a label on it! Everything remains the same forever!

Right, because you're a fucking retard. Get lost brainlet.

>uses self invented definitions as arguments
>calls others retards

Sigma is fucking babymode lmao

>Combat

Is masturbation "sex" then?

God Hand is a shit game and a meme.

Literally, objectively, factually harder than Black.

>retard thinks classifying things is the work of some mysterious force instead of individuals

That's right retard.

So you just choose to die whenever an enemy grabs you? You also just don't kill bosses?

What in the name of fuck are you even talking about?

It was there in the first image, then the contrarian faggots decided that it shouldn't.

>free UT's without essence
>every puzzle and platforming section removed
>babymode spam katanas
ok retard

Eeh. Not sure if they really are the top of the genre but good taste overall.

Thank you for letting everyone know you did not play a single NG game, much less Sigma. Literally everything you said is false i some way.

>Is masturbation "sex" then?

I don't know, is pushing a bunch of buttons on a controller "fighting"?

The core of the difficulty is still there. Most gameplay changes feel more QoL than making it casual, like midair bow firing.

individuals propose a definition but it has to be accepted by the community as well to become a standard. yours did not so fuck off
and what luck that we have an official definition of qte:
>In video games, a quick time event (QTE) is a method of context-sensitive gameplay in which the player performs actions on the control device shortly after the appearance of an on-screen instruction/prompt. It allows for limited control of the game character during cut scenes or cinematic sequences in the game. Performing the wrong prompt or not at all results in the character's failure at their task and often in an immediate game over, or a life being lost and being shown a death/failure animation
do you see variable input being a requirement anywhere in that definition? because i fucking don't

we should just change it into the holy quaternity

yes

>Sigma
>definitive
Never have I heard such an awful, awful opinion

>yours did not
>official

How do you live with being such a sad sperg?

wrong and coping

It's not an opinion, it's literally a fact.

Based for triggering virgincucks
t.Chad

Just speak like a normal person and say what you want faggot.
And I'll just answer you're real question. DMC5 may be easy, but it doesn't have braindead enemies who do nothing, there are teleporting enemies, enemies that block your attacks, and enemies that parry you, enemies that fly and deliver ranged attacks. Problem is that they are easily stun locked, if the next DMC fixes this problem it'll be stellar.

Where have you retarded contrarians been hiding for all these years?
I best some of you niggers think that NGS2 is good

>dmcv over 1
otherwise true

I'm a Dragon's Dogma man myself, but I respect anything Itsuno's been involved in, even DMC2
>make a shit game
>learn from it and make some of the best pure, unfiltered vidya for the next decade
Kojimbo and Nomura (lol a film reject and fucking art director) can suck my inflamed willy

They were probably busy playing the video games they talk about instead of parroting everything they hear to fit in.

Black is good, but don't sleep on the GOAT

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If i wanted to get into a discussion about the way Itsuno's DMC handles "combat" for the 100th time i would.

>"lol everyone who says black is better is parroting lalalala"
The absolute STATE

>Problem is that they are easily stun locked

Bayonetta 2 did the whole "enemies jumping out of combos" thing a lot and it totally fucking sucked.

Not everyone but 95% of it for sure, also most of it comes from a couple of spergs. You're a definite case.

>Worse enemy design
>Worse level design
>Worse balance
>Worse story

Nah. NGII is the franchise's DMC4, it's unfinished as fuck, just in a different way.

>PS3 version is censored
gay

Here's a hint, the problem has nothing to do with enemies getting stunlocked, in fact DMC has always been a good example of enemies having nonsensical super armor properties.

>you're a sperg for liking a better game
Keep being delusional

>Worse enemy design

This is not true. The enemies suffer from the game balance but the design is solid for most of them.

>wikipedia definition
>not official
still don't see why i should consider your asspull over one curated by a community of people

Itsuno's DMC handles combat with giving as many options to the player, while having a "best" approach. There isn't much yo discuss here, anyways we can all agree that DMC's enemy design needs to be faster and more aggressive, 3's was tedious and 4 was good I guess, so he isn't so retarded that he doesn't know what to do.
I didn't say the enemies should constantly jump out of the attacks, just make them do it a bit more, because right now, it is very easy to stun lock them.

>it's unfinished as fuck
that's definitely NG3
>playing any Sigma voluntarily
NGS2 is a fucking disaster, the worst version of any game

they actually do. it's fucking crazy

>wikipedia definition
>not official

This retard unironically green texted this. I think I'm done.

Attached: Pic related.jpg (630x472, 149K)

NG2 is better than Black. Otherwise I agree

because bayo2 tied it to witch time you fucking retard

Bayo 2 did it bad because you needed to be in Witch Time to get anything going. TF Devastation did it right by having all the regular enemies and most bosses have the same defensive options as the player in a dodge and a parry that they can pull out during gaps in your string or if you've been comboing them too long.

Rachel is perfectly capable of destroying the enemies you're out against if you're good with her.
If you complain about Rachel you're just bad.

still more reliable than your asspulls

Does slightly better combat than a game with already fantastic combat make up for being a step back in every other way?

Now, now, let's not get too crazy. NG2 may have had more complex balls-to-the-wall combat, but some people prefer the more methodical and defensive approach Black takes, as well as the action-adventure feel it has.
It's also, y'know, a finished game

>formulated arguments
>asspulls

So what's your real problem? I wore your mom out or something?

>x is not part of y because my definition says so
>your definition is not accepted by the community though
>reeeEEeeeeEEEee you sperg!!!11!1!!!

You're not the "community" you deluded troglodyte.

Attached: Ayane.jpg (1000x562, 51K)

yes, that's why i pulled the definition by wikipedia which was shaped by a community unlike yours that you thought up yourself

>mongoloid on Yea Forums arguing against independent thought, debate and progress

Can't make this shit up.

>reinventing the wheel is good

Yes. I never gave a fuck about NG1's hub level system or story and actually I think they bring the game down. In a game with such great combat, all I wanted to do was fight, yet Black still try to make me have fun doing shitty puzzles in a shitty world that every other games does already.

Who invented the QTE anyway?

probably shenmue
it may have been done before then but shenmue was the first one that mattered

Dragon's Lair

I like MGR but no.

God Hand is underrated.

Attached: God Hand - Great Sensei 2.webm (720x480, 2.74M)

>not DMC3

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Bayonetta needs to be on there. It's incredible to me how much Bayonetta isn't talked about on Yea Forums, or held in the same regard as the other action games. Fucking mind boggling shit.

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>Bayonetta needs to be on there.
It doesn't.

Any arguments or...?

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Saw a review of DMC5 that said when you play as V you should think of it as if you're an evil mastermind, rather than a cuhrazee pizzaman.
I think that actually makes him more enjoyable. It doesn't come naturally with the game since the other two characters are similar in gameplay to eachother, while V is so different, but once you've changed your mindset it just works.

>muh webums from the same one autist

You literally posted an example of one of the worst if not THE worst boss in the entire genre. God Hand is a fucking overrated mess. It's alleged popularity is sustained by the stigmas that permeate the genre's fanbases alone.

100% on the money.

It's underrated.

Attached: God Hand - Crowd Control.webm (640x480, 1.1M)

It's probably not there because Bayonetta is a "push a button, something awesome happens" button masher for retards.

Bayonetta is more akin to God Hand than DMC

This.

Even of you don't like God Hand, calling any boss in it the worst in the genre is just plain hyperbole. Fight Arkham, Jubileus, any of the flying bosses in Bayo 2, DMD Nidhogg, and every single boss from DMC2 before saying that.

>"push a button, something awesome happens"
These are rewards for not getting hit and maintaining combos. It's in line with the game's goals of meaty combat. Or do you also take issue with Nero's Devil Bringer finishers?
>button masher
This I'll concede slightly, but it's a button masher as a concession to its more aggressive enemies that don't wait while you combo an enemy to grind out your SSS. It's the perfect complement to DMC.

Based jizzhead

Is that really all you can muster as an argument against the inclusion of Bayonetta as a classic action game? A non-argument that doesn't critically look at how the game works?

Shit design that makes it hard > Shit design that makes it easy

I meant what i said.

There's just too much to distract from the combat in Bayonetta, it gets really tiresome on repeat playthroughs.

Even if he disliked God Hand, as someone who cleared that shit over 200 times I can agree that Great Sensei is the worst fucking boss in the netire genre and not just the game itself

>trinity
>only 3
retard

>There's just too much to distract from the combat in Bayonetta
?

Demon Elvis is honestly kinda shit desu

Git gud.

Attached: God Hand - Great Sensei.webm (640x360, 2.37M)

Play the game instead of reposting Mike's videos

That's too tall an order. Like those parrots who squawked about inertia during DMC5's post-launch while not having played DMC4 since 2012.

Completely anecdotal but i've been watching some Bayonetta fan play through other action games and his ineptitude is hilarious. He literally has a button masher mentality and gets filtered by DMC3 enemies in normal mode.

How could you possibly have trouble understanding that sentence? Bayonetta's combat is good, searching for keys/carrying Cereza/QTE sequences/Space Harrier get old fast.

The only QTEs necessary are during major boss fights, but they're rewards for doing damage. Everything else, well, that's about on the same level as V, Urizen 1 and two, and select other instances. There's also Angel Slayer, much how Bloody Palace does away with nearly all of my woes with DMC5.

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Bayonetta's torture attacks get old really fast. Same for Zandatsu in MGR. Short, sweet and varied is what you should aim for with those finishing move systems.

Most of the people here played these games once on normal. Kamiya's games are always at their best on the highest difficulty.

The torture attacks are optional, much like Nero's Devil Bringer finishers/grapples.
Of course.

During each of those you mentioned you're actually playing the game.

That also, TAs really ruin the flow of the combat.

NSIC doesn't make the bad parts of the game disappear. It makes the space harrier segment even worse in fact.

Oh, forgot to mention boss fights: the Jeanne fights are very fun but the rest is just garbage, and all except the very first Jeanne fight are awkwardly placed.

>optional

Stop with this meme. It's something you're gonna do a lot and get tired of because they take too long and are always the same, that's the long and short. The button prompt constantly hovering hovering over the screen does not help either.

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>boss punishing you for not being aggressive is shit design

>Stop with this meme. It's something you're gonna do a lot
youtube.com/watch?v=z9ebzDdYd5g
???????????????????????????????
>During each of those you mentioned you're actually playing the game.
When Nero grapples a cleaver bruiser and takes 5 seconds to suplex him, you're playing the game? When Nero grabs a scythe guy and he takes 7 seconds to finish the animation, you're playing the game? And V is still lame, as are Urizen 1 and two.

>combowank video as an argument

Well, you're hopeless.

>Torture attacks are optional
>Stop with this meme
>[video evidence, which isn't required if you've played the game, showing torture attacks are optional]
>Well, you're hopeless
Thank you for your concession.

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>muh TAs
except that you never need them to do not even for plats. they're newb traps and that magic can be better used for instant WW or accessories
the only advantage are the angel weapons for easily breaking the score but these drop at random anyway and you never need them either as long as you don't reset your combo counter

I concede that you're a dense motherfucker

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I was talking about the Urizen and V parts. For what it's worth Urizen 2 is quite fun as Dante. Even if you don't like them they still involve the combat system, unlike keys/Cereza/QTE/Space Harrier don't.

>the rest is just garbage
>forgetting best boi father balder
easily on par with Jeanne if not even better

Not him, but if you're playing the campaign, you're unironically required to do them, especially that early chapter where you have to do them 3 times, while dodging a bunch of Graces (or was it glories?). And the times you have to do them in the end of bosses and sometimes mini bosses.

even outside of combowank they're never needed. in fact for plat runs, they're absolutely useless since you can easily get the score plat by never dropping your combo and the damage you get out of TAs is fucking weak too

aside from certain elfheim challenges and the tutorial mission you never have to do a single TA

>I was talking about the Urizen and V parts.
See, I can't abide by this sort of logic. V, Urizen, Nidhogg, SDT, etc. get in the way of my enjoyment of DMC5 the same way (optional) QTEs and nonoptional ones get in the way of your enjoyment of Bayonetta. But I don't necessarily denounce DMC5 because I can just BP with Dante all day, the same way one can Angel Slayer all day. But Bayonetta gets the shit where DMC5 does not?
Much of my post can be applied here. Otherwise I defer to This favoritism shit is embarrassing.

>Favoritism
lol

>needed
Christ almighty, that's not the point.

>TA are optional
>Stop with this meme. It's something you're gonna do a lot
>They're not needed
>That's not the point
Care to get to it?

>that's not the point
how is the fact that they're fully optional and are outclassed by other actions that consume the same resource not the point?

>DMCV
>Peak

Yikes. Your first DMC game?

Video games after the 90s were a mistake

>aside from certain elfheim challenges and the tutorial mission you never have to do a single TA
Except you know, the parts you listed and the end of every boss. I love bayonetta anyways, even with it's stupid quirks
>Much of my post can be applied here. Otherwise I defer to
I'm not shitting on Bayonetta, I very much love it and consider it in the top 4 best action games of all time. And there is no need to feel attacked, DMC doesnt get shat on for QTEs because it doesnt have any that are very long and mashy. Nero's bringer works pretty fast and is simple while TAs are pretty long are the same animations and don't feel like part of a combo.

The point is that there is a fucking mechanic in the game constantly yelling at you to use it and when you do, even if it's because you want to, instead of being a highlight it breaks flow, slows the game to a crawl, is repetitive and mechanically uninteresting. The point is that Bayonetta has a core mechanic that is for all intents and purposes poorly implemented and realized and your answer to this is "but you can try to ignore it" instead of "this should have been better".

>the end of every boss
I'd consider them qtes rather than TAs since they don't follow the same rules. I admit they are shit.
>Nero's bringer works pretty fast and is simple
But they're really fucking long in 5 though and at times even on par with TAs when it comes to length.
But because of that they're pretty much never required to be done.

My guess is that they exist for the sake of normalmode fags so that they can feel like they're doing something much like WT

It's one easily ignored mechanic. Are you going to pretend the games in OP's pic don't also have glaring flaws?

>But they're really fucking long in 5 though and at times even on par with TAs when it comes to length
The only long one I can think of is the Angelos ground buster, and maybe the boss busters, other wise they're pretty short and could fit nicely to a combo

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>Are you going to pretend the games in OP's pic don't also have glaring flaws?

No, because I'm not like you.

aerial busters are fast yea but most grounded busters are slow as fuck. two other really slow ones i can think of are the Hell Caina and Behemoth Buster

>Hell Caina
Isn't that a regular buster?
>Behemoth
it isn't that rediclously bad, it's just Nero spinning while holding it's tongue. A real long one I just remembered is the Furies, I really don't like it either.

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>Isn't that a regular buster?
i mean the one where he shoots him
>it isn't that rediclously bad, it's just Nero spinning while holding it's tongue
yea but it still takes quite a fucking while

Yeah. Unlike DMC, Bayonetta is shit.

>no dark souls

>Fight'N Rage
This game needs more love

Dark Souls is in a league of it's own that these games can only hope to experience through association.

Not an action game.

This.

Attached: Dark Souls - Knight Artorias Fight.webm (600x336, 2.94M)

git gud

DMC3 - Bayonetta - MGS Rising
God Hand - Ninja Gaiden Black

Based Rachelbros

She's amazing to play as

Attached: rachel-ninja-gaiden-sigma-1.jpg (1200x1707, 1.28M)

Shitty Gaiden II, HAHAHAHA.

lmao

how could anyone hold Rachel as their waifu, the most 2-dimensional character of all time

Your memes end here.

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BDSM fetish, probably

Rachel is complex though

Attached: Complex.webm (900x506, 2.89M)

>not in RE

Fucking shit taste Japs. It's not fair!

Love that image

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Came to post this.

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>Make an unarmed moveset
>Waste it on a meme section

>Make Sai dual wielding boss
>Give you only one of his weapons
>It only has 1 move

>Have 50 swords in the game
>They all have the same moveset

Her gun sounds so "meaty" and it shreds enemies apart

Attached: Rachel OT V2.webm (900x506, 2.7M)

Does DMC5 actually deserve that place or is this a meme? I don't really play games within five years or so of their release but I'll consider it for later.

It's a meme

It does

Ask again later.

Both.

It's kind of a meme

People without the ability to holistically quantify things are appraising DMC5 purely mathematically- more moves = better game

The reality though is that the combat isn't as good as it was in prior DMCs. It's slower, floatier, and far too easy on normal/devil hunter difficulty.

Still good but it just feels like more of the same of 3/4 albeit dumbed down and with incredible visuals.

Attached: 1538815531374.jpg (1080x706, 58K)

>People without the ability to holistically quantify things
>normal/devil hunter difficulty.

I'm more a fan of no more heroes but I get that its kind of a different breed

>It's slower
It's not, it's pretty much the same speed as DMC4 with no turbo but better I'd say. But it is floatier that should change, but it doesnt really make it "worse". And the difficulty of normal could've been balanced better, but eh

This.

>People without the ability to holistically quantify things are appraising DMC5 purely mathematically- more moves = better game

By your logic these people should be saying DMC4SE is the best game.

>Summarizes all the points people have for liking 5 as "more moves = better game"
>"This game is too easy on Easy"
>Implying that 3 & 5 are the same or that 5 is dumbed down compared to 4 (the ONLY legitimate instance of this is the JC window being larger which is offset by a very brief cooldown to make it less spammable, which is a net positive)
There's a lot of ways you could've come at the game with legitimate issues but these aren't among them. The pacing of the story and Missions, the lack of SoS from the start, poor balancing of Dr. Faust (you get Bs if you spam it but as a supplementary gun it's still really strong at Max Level even if you ignore its cool properties like Hat Trick and Magic Hat), roughly half the Missions are either straight lines or boss-only, Bloody Palace being delayed for no real reason besides player retention, Geryon Knight not being in BP for no reason, etc. etc.

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>far too easy on normal/devil hunter difficulty
>too easy on easy mode
are all dongurifags this retarded?

fpbp

godhand is overrated and dmc sucks

Human - easy
Devil Hunter - normal
Son of Sparda - hard (has to be unlocked so you're playing on normal whether you want to or not)

Even SoS in 5 is too easy honestly. I got bored and gave up.

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>implying DMC5 is even remotely difficult on DMD
Are you retarded or something?
No matter the difficulty DMC5 pales in comparison to God Hand OR NG when it comes to challenging gameplay.

The great thing about the Behemoth buster is that it actually deals damage to surrounding enemies while he spins it, so it's not that easily interrupted.
Empusa Queen busters are shit though.
Well at least the Fury Buster has the most radical animation in the game.

because surprise, suprise DMC games are easy as fuck below DMD. Heck, most games of this genre are.
And to counter that they added in a feature to unlock further difficulties in the first mission

>moving the goalposts and strawmanning

As I said, Devil Hunter being the highest default difficulty is an issue and it's like that because they wanted the earlier difficulties to introduce the player to enemy types at a certain pace while SoS has harder enemies earlier, but most veterans wouldn't have really cared. The only silver lining on that front is that you can just blitz Urizen 1 on DH and unlock SoS if you're good enough (and it's not THAT hard since it's DH even if you're not fully stocked). I found SoS a pretty fair challenge but I'm also that great at games in general; mostly only died to the harder bosses though.

All that said, is still correct. DMC is not a particularly difficult game series relative to its contemporaries (though probably just above the average for the medium), and when it is difficult it's generally due to DMD/HoH/H&H changing up some numbers to make mistakes way more punishing. 1DMD is good though.

What the-

Bayonetta is an evolutionary step from DMC. Not to say better or worse, but it chose a direction. It has a god damn equivalent for nearly every move (helm splitter, stinger, even enemy step).
It incorporates each style from 3 into its core moveset (two melee buttons, gun tricks, dodge and teleport, time slow, and two accessories for RG and dopple). Though it's not more shallow like that one asshole says, it adds combo strings on top of the aforementioned style mixing. Different enemies also respond to different strings (tripping agile enemies, juggling large ones, etc) yet are typically much more agressive than in dmc. The two are super similar, but with enough differences to warrant preference.

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Why this game is bad compared to Ninga Gaiden Black?

Attached: MV5BYTYzNGJjNWMtYWNkYi00ZWU2LWFjNjYtZWUxYmU2ZjI1NDdmXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNTk1ODMyNjA@._V1_SY1000_SX1250_A (1250x1000, 178K)

>enough differences to warrant preference
This is a key statement that people in these threads and on Yea Forums in general don't seem to fucking get. Preference exists; not everything is objectively better than another thing in the same category. I like making tier lists of series and stuff but I don't like ordering things in the same tier because they're in that tier for different reasons.

It's not

>Bayonetta is more akin to God Hand than DMC
It's more akin to Ninja Gaiden because they both make heavy use of dial-a-combos. PUNCH PUNCH KICK KICK KICK to do one move instead of just having it accessed immediately.

the core combat of bayo is radically different due to dial combos, DO and WW which is why it's nothing like DMC.

It's not a worse game, it's a rebalance essentially. There's a lot of small changes to systems and level design and UI that amount to making the game a little less frustrating but also a little easier. There's also Rachel Chapters which are short but unskippable and less bonus content (no NES/Arcade NG ROMs, less costumes). There's nothing wrong with playing Sigma, whereas Sigma 2 is a slight downgrade from NG2 (would be a big downgrade if not for the extra content) and Razor's Edge is an upgrade from NG3.

>but also a little easier

Fucking stop it

>rachel
>worst bossfight
>worse artstyle
>dumb reshuffles
>is easier
it's not bad but black is better

I get what you're saying, but I never felt that the lower difficulties of other DMC games were stiflingly straightforward like 5's is.

I consider myself a gamer of strictly middling skill and as such I can find challenge in the default difficulties of most character action games, but in DMC5's case I pretty much waltzed through most of it. I didn't find SoS noticeably tougher either apart from the reshuffled enemies/larger mobs which are redundant anyway once you figure out how to stay in the air indefinitely, which DMC5 gives you tons of options to do.

DMC5 is the first game in this genre to disappoint me with its lack of difficulty, and considering it's the game in the series which concentrates most on fighting and strips out almost everything else, that's a problem.

1 > 4 > 5 > 3 > DmC > 2

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>Be DMCfag
>Every single thread spastics argue how vanilla DMC4 is better than SE
>All the positives are spinned as negatives
>SE is EASIER :O "because"
>Extra content added and refined mechanics are bad for "reasons"
>Every time you engage with them in detail they make it abundantly clear that they have never even seen SE much less play it
>No one cares because no one plays DMC
>Can't ever talk about DMC because surrounded by parrots playing pretend

Being a DMCfag is suffering.

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I totally understamd your point. It definitely is easier, mostly due to the level of freedom you get. Maybe if you had to use first-playthrough Nero on a higher difficulty it would be harder.

>4 > 5 > 3
Wait what

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tell me user, whats so contrarian about hating "PRESS X TO NOT DIE" and bad level design?
and shit enemies
and instant kills

>Every single thread spastics argue how vanilla DMC4 is better than SE
What? I barely see this kind of talk on Yea Forums. Also why would anyone one to play Vanilla 4 when SE has so much more to offer, and the only thing I remember being easier is the first Dante fight which was a tutorial anyways.

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I see way more 4 > 1/3/5 fags than 4 > 4SE fags, user, and even then the former has only started becoming common in these threads recently.

I guess Vanilla 4 runs better on PC; it could run great on toasters while 4SE is actually less-optimized because they outsourced the PC version IIRC.

Bayo1 is full of cancerous QTE and absolutely shit gimmicky levels like the highway and rocket riding.
Bayo2 is better, but it features absolutely retarded companion shit and some exploration focused level design elements are hurting it badly. The aftergame arena encounters are impeccable, though.
Overall it is worse than any of the three, but it's close.

>whichever boss you do first in M14
That flying shit is okay if you chose Griffin.
Shadow may be useful in that fight, but quite rarely.

even though I've beaten all these games on the hardest difficulties, in retrospect these games all kind of suck. they shohorn in shitty puzzles and they generally put no effort into anything besides the combat system, which is basically only good for one thing, and that's combo videos. very disappointing genre considering the hype it gets on this board.

>tfw too smart for Yea Forums

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Bayonetta is better than DMC5

Replace Godhand with Shinobi ps2

I don't want to shit on Shinobi but it's a really archaic action game by the standards of those games, even God Hand.

youtube.com/watch?v=m8nDFPeSK0I

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refute it

You're wrong and lying.

that was easy.

The only very hard thing is if he fights 3v1 or 5v1 and you can just avoid it by being super aggressive or using AOE roulette moves.

>it's this easy bro

No, it's not.

who are you quoting?

you, spouting theoretical inanities that do not apply to reality.

swap out god hand with literally any other action game and this would be right. God Hand is absolute trash.

>constant praise for Godhand
>the game that reskins common enemies to make bosses
but it's okay because nobody who praises Godhand as "best thing ever" actually played it

I didn't say he is easy though
he's still challenging without going 3 or 5v1, it's just that you can avoid the very hard part with head slicer or the knock up, la bomba it's called iirc

>Bayo2 is better
normalshitter detected. Bayo2 is massively dumbed down due to forced WT, overpowered not-DT making all other magic useless, broken score system, shallow weapons and horrible enemy design that mainly stems due to the idea of forced WT

>all these niggas who can't find enjoyment from God Hand.
Damn. That must suck dick

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None of these really have any puzzles at all, especially GodHand which is completely linear.
So is dmc5, it didnt really have much of the backtracking that the other games had.
Earlier dmc and ng dont really have puzzles so much as grabbing the key item and bringing it back to where it is used to progress. None of these are things I would call puzzles.

And yes no shit, you play these games because the combat is good, more fun, and has a higher skill ceiling than most other games. It is the main selling point. You play it for the thrill of conquering them, for outskilling everything and being good at something. The ceilings are high on these games and I guess if you are really bored of them in that way you must have btfo every difficulty and played at least a few hundred hours in each game.

This, I cant imagine having such awful taste.

>shit enemies
>bad level design
I hope you aren't implying DMC post-1 are absolved from those particular issues.

Yes, but why bring it up just to start a fight?

>I've never played it on it's highest difficulty and think it's shit.

>NSIC doesn't make the bad parts of the game disappear. It makes the space harrier segment even worse in fact.
If you're going to pull that card than DMC5 is equally guilty of this on DMD where V missions really bring out the character's fundamental issues to light, combined with the already monotonous level design and advanced tech from previous games being removed for no reason it's ironic DMC5 gets a free pass in OP's pic.

DMC3 both vanilla and SE are light years harder on early difficulties than anything on DMC5.

>are light years harder on early difficulties
they are just as easy you fucking fool. you're having an easier time in 5 because you're much more experienced with this series

>monotonous level design
I actually like this change because I fucking hated all the pointless backtracking and gimmicky shit in all the other games

Godhand is the only game on there I wouldn't consider replacing. I do think Shinobi is one of the best games in the genre, though.

I wouldn't say it's slower.

I felt like I was overpowered on DH and SoS difficulties. Enemy design and difficulty felt weak.

>they are just as easy you fucking fool

Not him and no they are not. DMC3 legit has hard parts in DMD

>DMD
except that we're not talking about DMD

>What is KMS
>Forgetting about a pretty funny stage right before him

what I'm saying is the combat system is not actually contributing to the game at all, and neither is the level design. when I said puzzles, it's true that I was generalizing, but I was remembering how not fun devil may cry 3 and 4 were with their endless parade of shitty puzzles and challenges. and when I say puzzles in those games, I mean the parts where you have to jump on platforms or hit switches, all under a time limit, as a bunch of enemies swarm you. in other words, they're abusing the limitations of the game's design, which is to focus on combat alone, and giving you a timed challenge which the game is completely not designed for.

as for the combat, it's true that it's complex, and the enemies can be fun and interesting, however the difficulty and general level of engagement is massively overstated. I actually find myself more challenged in the harder difficulties of musou games than I do on these extreme action games. simply because finding a good combo is so damn easy in both types of games, but in dmc clones, finding a good combo is all you need to do, and it's just button mashing from there on out. even ninja gaiden black is guilty of this, in fact it's one of the worst ones about it.

Kill yourself, weeb.

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>What is KMS
an optional meme challenge. your point?

There's an unlockable for beating KMS
Great Sensei is the only boss that forces you to use God Hand if he decides to split up

>There's an unlockable for beating KMS
oh wow some extra music for the jukebox. who fucking cares it's still an optional meme challenge that is intended to kick you in the balls so don't bitch and moan when the game does exactly that.
>if he decides to split up
as long as you keep up the pressure he won't be able to

>Meme challenge
>6-8 literally mocks you for using God Hand
As long as you keep up the pressure anyone can't do shit, doesn't mean Great Sensei isn't a shitty boss

>6-8 literally mocks you for using God Hand
oh no the developers added an honest joke! this must mean that they intended for everyone to play on kms! There's no need to do KMS if you don't want to so stop bitching about it
And again, great sensei is a decent boss. his split is a punishment for not keeping up the pressure and even then you can delete them with roulette, your god hand or props on the stage

not completing the KMS challenge is akin to using the grovel command even once in your life.

God Hand is literally more fun when you don't have to watch GH activation or roulette cutscenes
>great sensei is a decent boss. his split is a punishment for not keeping up the pressure
Now boot up his fight and see for yourself

>refuses to use abilities that the game intends you to take advantage of
>screeches about enemies being unfair
retard

>Defending the worst boss in the game
You should try and beat the game on a difficulty higher than Easy, or at least stop watching Mike's videos

again, use the tools the game gives to you instead of acting like a dumb, whiny pussy

Metal gear rising bros... assemble.

>tfw Deadpan wasn't in the NA release

I got Dark Messiah & Jedi Academy this Steam Sale based entirely on people praising the combat. Only lightly touched Dark Messiah so far but I can already tell I'm going to like it (seeing clips like this beforehand helped too).

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>lists clunky, old, ugly and slow looking games
What are you trying to say?

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You could describe God Hand as "clunky, old, ugly and slow" and that's still a fantastic game.

3d action fags btfo.

Clunky, sure. Old, I guess. But ugly and slow it is not.

ik i notice that too

it's absolutely fucking ugly, you hypocritical cunt

>clunky
I bet you unironically consider lock-on a good "feature", nigger.
>old
Zoom zoom.
>ugly
t. weeb who can't appreciate good art direction and unironically enjoys eclectic trash like DMC
>slow looking
Thanks for sharing your opinion about the games you haven't played, underage weeaboo nigger.

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Nah, it has the aesthetics of Mad Max and Fist of the north star, so I can't really dislike it

DMC stopped being an action game franchise after the first game. DMC3-5 are single player fighting game combo sins with dogshit enemy designs and enemies so harmless they exist purely to be beaten up. This results in massive UP bloat for the utterly outdated "Style" meter.

>I bet you unironically consider lock-on a good "feature", nigger.
That just depends on the game and what it brings of mechanics with it
>Zoom zoom.
Games get old you know, like movies and other things, it doesnt make it bad, just that it's old
>t. weeb who can't appreciate good art direction and unironically enjoys eclectic trash like DMC
I dislike sci-fi shit, so star wars was never good to me. And the other two look boring bland and generic medieval shit. I'm not even a weeb I appreciate art from any country in the world. And DMC1 and 3 are the only ones that I think have a good art direction.
>Thanks for sharing your opinion about the games you haven't played, underage weeaboo nigger.
It literally is slower than the games in OP, and slower than Bayonetta too

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refute it

>DMC3 has braindead enemies
Why do you make shit up? Are you saying it's easy to fight the fallen? You're telling me that the boss fights are easy? You clearly haven't played it then, and just parrot the same stupid meme.

>it's easy to fight the fallen?
fallen are braindead easy though. main issue is that they're fucking tedious to fight especially if they clip into walls.
most enemies in 3 are just fucking tedious to fight because of how boring they are

Most enemies are tedious but they aren't braindead, and the fallen is bad not because he clips through walls, sin scissors and mephisto do that too, but because he has this stupid shield that you have to break and he can just bring back.
And all enemies constantly attack in DMD, even the blood gargoyles could pose a threat.
And in 4 while they were less tedious still were engaging, especially with how you can still get hit with that stupid plant on the scarecrow.

your genre is shit faggots

I'm sorry that you have to keep replying to yourself to get (you)s and that you have terminal shit taste, user.

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>can't prove him wrong.