>"Siren's difficulty was one of the things I was aiming for from the start. I thought it would be nice to have a hard game like old times. I was imagining Namco's "The Tower of Druaga" at the time, but there was that one game you first managed to get through because everyone brought their own knowledge to the table, right? I wondered if we could reproduce that feeling of everyone getting excited about it over such a diffused internet. At the time of The Tower of Druaga, information spread throughout the community by way of word of mouth, or notes left at arcades. I wondered whether that kind of atmosphere could be created again, on the internet." Kiichiro Toyama
Was he right? what do you think about difficulty being something to overcome as a community?
i appreciate your actual video game thread OP. have a bump
Jose Nelson
And then he released Gravity Rush
Justin Morales
The only other game that comes to mind with this kind of difficulty is Mizzurna Falls, were you can miss several key moments that allows you to progress in the game. It's a trial and error process, where you learn from your mistakes and of course the community aspect becomes important.
Sounds terrible. No game should ever stop you from progressing.
Wyatt Fisher
Nice English translation hahaha oh wait.
Henry Gray
I have wanted to play this game for like 15 years now, since back when I saw the first trailer on it on one of PS2 demo discs. Unfortunately never got to own it and emulation, at least a couple years ago, was impossible because the fog from mission 3 onwards rendered bad. Is it as good as I think it could be or is it a mediocre mess with interesting features such as the demon view?
Colton Rogers
It kind of gets a pass because it was one of a kind for its time. I would even call it a more functional Deadly Premonition.
Nathaniel Cook
It's available for PS4 in the PStore. Runs via emulation.
Brody Cruz
I don't own any console. Has the PCSX2 emulation been fixed?
Lucas Torres
I think it is a great game, but you have to be ready for some cryptic shit. There is a point in the game when you stop progressing and begin to loop old stages. You never know why, it's never explained. But you have to actually do certain side "missions" on certain stages to open new paths on the story. You could say that it was innovative or total bullshit, thats the point of this thread.
Matthew Mitchell
I don't mind the looping, I have finished MGSV after all. I basically ran out of good horror games to play (literally spent 2 years playing nothing but horror games basically, since 17-19) and this may be the last one series I can still enjoy.
Gabriel Garcia
same happened to me, horror is my favorite genre and there is a point were you don't have anything to play anymore, in that case you should really try this game.
Did you play Fatal Frame? 4th one got a translation patches.
Noah Moore
Ambitious idea for sure, sounds like it tried to do the same thing Lain semi-attempted but with video games. And in a way, what is an online guide if not a consolidation of information that the sort of community effort that Toyama seemed to want to create would put together?
Tyler Mitchell
people like this is why games will never be art
Robert Nguyen
This. I've completed both Sirens on PCSX2 in 2012-2013. In 1 there was some fog broken on hardware renderer, though. Don't know if it was fixed.
Lincoln Jackson
what makes this game so hard
i remember back in the day thinking it looked really good, downloading the iso, playing it for like 25 minutes and hating the slow monotonous gameplay
Colton Martin
>Doesn't know.
Actually its because many story paths are dependant on very obtuse objectives that you will need a guide to find.
Julian Price
As I said and as confirms, the fog in the first game rendered wrong and my CPU is not strong enough to handle software rendering. Yes the one with two sisters and butterflies. Then I tried the first one but felt like it's all the same but I went into it immediately so I may give it another go, thanks for reminding me.
Juan Campbell
I used to have a guide of Foribben Siren 2 that game in a ps2 magazine. Sadly I've since lost it, and I've never played a Siren game.
Some shit in the myst games is just fucking retarded. Closing a door to be able to move into a side path you can't even see.
Bentley Martin
I dropped this game somewhere after activating a tram, or the centipede area. Whichever comes last, I can’t recall. I’m pretty sure I had to backtrack to this dark area with a light upgrade, but it was far and I didn’t want to be wrong.
There’s a lack of direction, which normally means it’s just mentally challenging and fun, but there’s just too much space to cover and if you’re wrong then it can be a real waste of time. I get that it’s metroidvania, but a little push couldn’t hurt. And maybe fill the empty space with something interesting.
Robert Green
So you played the second one then. Serie is fairly similar overall so you're right about that. I do however enjoy the twist on the basic storyline introduced by 1 and the new places to explore.
Jason Nelson
casuals
Sebastian Walker
pfffft
Shouldn't a PS@ games be on /vr/?
Leo Thompson
The game works on a timeline over the course of the couple days of plot, you're constantly bouncing between characters at different points in their days trying to survive. The game tries to make use of this by having things you do on one character's path effect others later on ala the zapping system from RE2.
Imagine though if instead of "Hey if you grab this machine gun here the other character won't have it" It was "Hey if you forget to grab the rope in the corner of this map on this specific day and set it up on this rock then the game is actually incompletable later and you won't know why"
That's why Siren is hard, because it's very literally trial and error.
Ian Sullivan
Didn’t say I ‘couldn’t’ finish it. Just kinda lost interest. It’s got atmosphere for days, I wanted to like it.
Brayden Lewis
hard is different from invalid game design
no video game should ever dead end
Logan Wood
I enjoy all sorts of game genres, and there are almost no mechanics that I think are universally bad. Forcing the use of a walkthrough is an exception: it is one of the very few things a developer can do to ensure I will hate their game.
Eli Stewart
>dude just bumble into the fog of war lmao who cares if the enemy can pinpoint artillery on you from anywhere on the map
Hey man, i'm not defending the game roadblocking you because you didn't do optional shit you didn't even know about 6 hours ago. Just explaining why it's considered "hard"
Joseph Bell
How long does this game in particular take to complete?
Josiah Cruz
is siren actually spooky? one of the only ps2 horror games i haven't played
Carson Parker
At least Toyama's been heavily implying lately that Siren is returning in some capacity :)
>play game wrong >can't beat level/enemy/tasks WOW
Nolan Cook
Once you actually know what you're doing? A couple of hours. The trick is that combat fucking sucks, so you're kind of obligated to make use of the big core mechanic that lets you see through enemy eyes and sneak past. Which means how long the game takes is entirely dependent on how carefully you play sneaking room to room and/or how big dick you decide to get by just sprinting and praying you don't get raped. First playthrough probably took about 14 hours but I was pretty slow.
Connor Wright
I didn't say you couldn't finish it, I called you a casual.
>But the controls are even clunkier >You have to escort bad AI helpless NPCs, >Rompers and flying lizard monsters get sniper rifles >Melee weapons are unreliable >Some monsters are tougher and take ages to kill, or resurrect back up in seconds. >The same tougher monsters always know where you are in the map and won't stop chasing you. >Often you dont get any weapons at all >You have to clear each area twice. >2nd mission ranges from simple task like climbing a certain tower, to GODAWFUL MISSIONS WHERE YOU HAVE TO ESCORT A RETARD THROUGH A MAP FILLED WITH SNIPERS IN UNDER 1:55 minutes. >In order to enter school you need to open a random specific door (so in the future Cybil can go through) in a specific part in the town that is not in the linear path of where you should be going.
And there you have it, the recipe for the single hardest game ever made, even when you have walkthrough ready. Theres a reason they made combat and friend AI better, plus gave you hints where to go next in the 2nd game.
posting wizardry 4 is fucking cheating in these threads lol. fuck that game.
Brayden Roberts
Didn't it drops you a few hints of what to do?
Angel Gutierrez
How's the remake on the ps3?
Dominic Williams
Yes and no. If you happen to be in the moment when everyone is figuring it out it's pretty cool. But the effect is null when you play old games and have to look up a walkthrough. I love 90s games but they took the "hands-off" approach way too far.
I just told you, even when you have figured it out and you play through Forbidden Siren with Walkthrough on your lap at all times, its still frustratingly difficult. Imagine playing Dota 2 but theres 1.5 second input lag in your controls, sometimes your skills don't deal any damage at all for no real reason and when you die, you start from level 1 with starting money and no items.
Noah Hernandez
4 is the worst game of the first four entries though. Don't know how 5 compared.
Colton Bennett
>number 3 on trending man japan is fucking strange
Elijah Myers
Does the challenge really ramp up in the later missions? I found the game fairly easy up until I reached the part where it started looping, which is where I quit.
Xavier Watson
Much easier because they retained all the gameplay improvements from the 2nd game. Its worth playing too. First game feels more like a unique experience though and its the sort of "trial by fire"-kind of game. If you suffer through the first game, then no other game will feel too difficult ever again.
It depends on the level. Hardest missions are actually in the mid-game. The difficulty is not even, it varies very highly inbetween missions.
This is the single hardest mission in the entire game, you're going to have to replay it 10-20+ times, easy and its frustratingly difficult: youtu.be/BU9O2VS7fx4
And even if you become the master of the game, its based on luck whether you beat the mission or not, because one of the shibito snipers is a flying shibito with random movement patterns. So if you're unlucky he's right on top of you and you're kinda fucked because you don't have the time to try and fight it.
Robert Bailey
I beat siren 99% of the way without a guide I was just confused why I didnt have the last set of levels unlocking. After hitting a guide and holy shit are Siren guides wonky to read it turns out I needed to go way back to like day one and push a monster into a well then go to a future day go down the well and grab some grenades off him. So ya Siren is BS and if you used a guide I could see why. I cant imagine the hell of trying to 100% this game without ever using a guide.
Kayden Rogers
I heard it's still rife with cryptic bullshit, which is the only thing I really wanted to see fixed.
It is but when you re-enter a level, you get a hint what to do like (open a door to unlock this and this characters mission). So you don't really get stuck but maybe once in the playthrough. Compare to first game where you were stuck all the fucking time.
Owen Turner
Call me a brainlet, but some puzzles in Riven were almost impossible for me. I didn't use a guide (no internet back then) but I was stuck for weeks.
Josiah Phillips
PATHOLOGIC 2 We're never getting the Bachelor scenario.
>tfw Ive literally never beaten a point and click game without consulting a guide at least once, despite it being one of my favorite genres Ill never stop being ashamed.
The problem with this is 10/10 these games have their secrets busted in a day or two, so 99% of players wont get a community mystery solving experience; they'll just look up the answers immediately.
Christian Roberts
Play thimbleweed park The in-game hint system means even you can beat it without a guide!
Lincoln Morgan
Most insufferably unfunny game, that thought it was hilarious, Ive ever played
Evan Bell
Literally no one has ever beaten this pinball machine (i.e. beaten/gotten to the wizard mode) without a guide. youtube.com/watch?v=qlk1esSInN8
If you know what to do the 1 min 55 second mission isn't hard at all, you just have to figure it out
Dylan Ortiz
>Pathologic 2 >impossible It just takes a while to adjust to the game's systems, it's not really hard though yeah, it's a shame the game sold poorly and we'll probably never get other campaigns ;_;. Now The Void, on the other hand, is pretty tough. I had to restart like 5 times before I was able to progress semi-comfortably without wasting excess Color.
Ryan Murphy
I just wanted an excuse to post that screenshot. It was bad news to get home to, and now we wait for an official, public answer.
Jaxson Turner
>they'll just look up the answers immediately La Mulana 2 had hint threads for a week or two.
Jaxson Jenkins
git gud faggot
Asher Reed
Some aspects of the level like specific enemy placements are random. Even if you do everything perfectly, the time limit is so strict that you're left with only 2-7 seconds, just like in the video. Do even one mistake and the run is ruined. Remember, simply doing an accidental 180 U-turn in place costs you 3-4 extra seconds.
John Jones
Go die you fuckin' retarded piece of trash. Fuckin' disgusting spic.
When levels started repeating I really got disoriented. I think I got to the end of Day 1 on my own. I dropped it and later completed Siren 2, only to return to 1 two years later.
Siren 1 is extremely obtuse, unwieldly game. But man, the atmosphere and horror, if you can actually immerse yourself in it, is unparalleled. There was something in it that resonated with me. Posting best protag.
Sorry that would be the doc. Or maybe the old man. To bad he killed himself.
Ryder Bennett
>the doc I forgot, why did he burn his brother and assumed his identity?
Luis Diaz
>flying shibito What the fuck this sent a shiver down my spine. I had to stop playing Siren because I was so scared during the first mission years ago. Only game that has done that to me. Might have to try it again.
Parker Long
Uhhhh its poorly explained and seems to be a jap thing. Hes combining with his twin in a yingyang idea sort of way ying and yang comes out alot in the game actually hes purging himself of the evil he did as the doc to help as the preist. Its kind of dumb.
Joseph Harris
This shit is tedious as fuck and some of the solutions are retarded. Cool story and characters though.
Bachelor and Changeling are going to happen no matter what. The question is whether they're going to be rushed, unfinished garbage like the original third route, or fully fleshed out and unique like Haruspex in P2.
It's not looking hopeful for the latter.
Benjamin Gomez
Its quite scary and atmospheric but expect some bad gameplay decisions. Close to half the game is an escort quest. Unlocking levels can sometimes involve doing byzantine sets of things that would make no sense. Combat is either crazy OP with you cleaving through enemies like nothing or simply getting one shotted by flying sniper rifles. Also the voice acting is horrible. Still a very good horror game and worth a play.
Ethan Torres
I finished it on pcsx2 more than five years ago, dude.
Thomas Smith
Not impossible to beat, but the game sets you up for the bad ending for how it's really hard to find Dr Kauffman, and how if you are escaping from monsters, that are very plenty in that last area, you might accidentally trigger a point of no return. The resort is a hard area to explore.
it was harder to realise what you can collect random liquid from the floor into the bottle.
Levi Perez
Yeah but at least you can collect a bottle very near to that liquid and come back without any pressure. The resort area is so full of enemies and so dark that exploring and trial and error are a problem.
William Wood
That was what tripped me up as well, both because there's no real reason to assume it's important at that point in the game, and because the method used to collect it doesn't make much sense. Harry somehow just directly transfers a puddle of liquid into a plastic bottle.
Luke Rogers
>mfw I accidentally stumbled onto Good+ on the first playthrough
He said to some Italian magazine last month that he thinks his next game will be very appealing to fans of his pre-Gravity Rush work, which coupled with the copious amounts of Siren shilling in Japan during the last few months has made people think he's up to something related to Siren.
Plus don't forget that he all-but-outright said that his new action-adventure IP he was working on immediately after GR2 was canned. I wonder what it was?
Joshua Ross
X3 if you count the encyclopedia.
The manual had hints for every optional objective in the game. Some of the hints were... better or worse than the other. Supergreatfriend shows them off whenever they come up in his playthrough.
Jason Harris
>I accidentally stumbled onto Good+ on the first playthroug >accidentally used red liquid in Cybil's boss fight
you're right. I'm a casual gamer because I spend my free time training for triathlons and learning new languages.
In the past I spent lots of times on games, but really they're essentially a product tailored for sale to children/teenagers, so none of them ever really present a challenge after 30 hours.
I genuinely hope you come to realize that you're wasting your life before your twenties are over.
Hudson Williams
Yes. I died in Cybil fight even after damaging her a ton I guess I was just bad back then. I thought that it was a puzzle boss, so I just used everything in my inventory. As for Kauffman, I merely stumbled onto him.
Angel Diaz
Arx Fatalis due to the weird way of organizing the quest logs and some far out there quest triggers
Aiden Rodriguez
Gravity Rush actually accomplishes this with its deepst lore.
Jeremiah Lewis
Huh yin and yang shows up a lot in the Sieren guy's next series, Gravity Rush too actually. Kat and Raven, and the DLC duo. We see literal yin yang symbols too.
Oh and the church in GR has the Sieren symbol.
Aiden Martin
Didn't even know there was a "campaign" without a guide. The menus and saving and everything about this was so obtuse and retarded
i dislike hard games because i see video games as something to get relaxed to and have fun with i don't want to go home after a frustrating day at school/work/whatever and get frustrated even more by some video game but this one in OP's pic is an exception to that and i really like it despite it being hard, truly an underground gem and cult classic
Josiah Smith
>i don't want to go home after a frustrating day at school/work/whatever and get frustrated
tough games were made for NEETs
Asher Price
>i dislike hard games it's not about hard games, darkest dungeon or enter the gungeon may be described as hard, but you know what the fuck you're doing or need to do in those games to win. But in shitty games like Sirens, you're lost. Game doesn't tell you what to do and you need to find some obscure trigger.
Charles Kelly
>you're right. I'm a casual gamer because I spend my free time training for triathlons and learning new languages. So not only are you a casual you're also very insecure.
And hey, unlike you I was good enough to beat Hollow Knight completely, I didn't suck so bad at it that I had to shitpost about how busy I am. I sincerely hope you're only like 20 or 21 because what an embarrassing post.
Adam Allen
>Many people think it's the best game in the series.
Why?
Tyler Powell
Agreed. Did you know Jirga references a mainland in the 2nd game? A FUCMING MAINLAND LIKE WHAT THE FUGG?
Brandon James
>he doesn't know
Hudson Robinson
The people that made Siren made gravity rush? Christ.
