The past two characters are now being deemed "OP"

>singlehandedly

But he clearly used both of his hands

Cast reeled and catched. To easy.

Banjo won't be good because he's a boomer gaijin pick.

Leo is an absolute rapist. Tweek really looked like he was going to win too.

Banjo isn't anime enough to be OP.

they will be the one honest dlc character, mark my words

>Just pretending to be retarded

Seeing his specials in his trailer I don't expect much. There might be some cool shit with his grenade but it looks like it's kind of slow.

MkLeo won tournaments before Joker was released.
He's not really that hard of a character to beat. Of course he's gonna choose a higher tier character, but it's the player more than the character.

I bet his Side-B is a completely invincible, priority Falcon Kick that does a fuckload of damage and knockback. That will be the move people fixate on for why he's OP.

It didn't seem to have a lot of knockback from the trailer. We'll see. I'm thinking it will function like a (safer) clown car.

>safer

If it's IP-accurate then it's 100% safe.

That's probably the reason for it being limited by feathers. It's a move with zero counters other than perfect shielding or getting the hell out of its way.

>catched

True, though we don't know about the cooldown, which is why I am saying "safer". There are some other moves from the trailer that make Banjo look middling if nothing changes. A few stubby normals (ftilt), several slowish moves (jab, fsmash), and his double jump looks way more horizontal than vertical, which may really hamper his ability to properly harass people above him.

This is all speculation, of course. I'm looking forward to him because he seems not too crazy and I am interested in an "honest" kit with some new tools to play with.

>tfw his side b beats counters and breaks shields with max feathers

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>All the other characters I want to play are mid tier at best
>Banjo will probably be so good I'll be embarrassed to play him

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I'm rooting for Sans for Smash Ultimate.

And a Final Fantasy character that's not from Final Fantasy VII. Terra (FFVI), Cecil (FFIV), Squall (FFVIII), hell I'll even be alright with Y'shtola (FFXIV).

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Based on the footage we saw, Banjo looks low tier at best, but he might have some kind of gimmick we didn't see.

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Most counters are literally invincible. It wouldn't beat them.

Sakurai makes anime characters overpowered because he's a fucking weeb.

>says he's a weeb
>he's japanese
okay retard

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Does anybody have the gif of Banjo doing the anime vanishing thing?

What I noticed from the trailer is that all of Banjoss special moves are moves that he can only do on the ground in his own. This makes me wonder if all of his air special moves are different.

they're gonna end up like Ridley and K. Rool where they were never OP and they get nerfed into the ground if they have any level of success

such is the price of having s o u l

>gimmick is two sets of Specials
That'd be neat.

>mid-air Down B: Clockwork Kazooie Egg (works like Bowser Jr's koopa robot)
>mid-air Up B: Flight Pad (tons of height but uses a Red Feather)
>mid-air Side B: Beak Bomber (tons of distance but no invulnerability, uses a Red Feather; can be used after Up Special but not before)

This, but I've waited too long to not play as Banjo because of stupid tiers.

I'm really fucking excited for them getting in.
I've been hoping Banjo and Kazooie get in since I was a wee 5 or 6 year old about 20 years ago. It's a dream come true AND I'm really disenchanted as fuck with K. Rool who is my current main. The more I play him the more he feels like that bottom 5 rank is spot on. So the fact that Banjo and Kazooie are not only in Smash, but also poised to be good characters based on the patterns left by other DLC characters being good AND the footage of his moveset from the trailer being incredibly promising is fucking ecstasy.

Serious look at all he had going for him so far
>Uncharacteristically fast run speed thanks to Talon Trot
>Beak disjoints
>Act out of recovery
>Flare Blitz but with superarmor
>Oppressive as shit projectile
>Item play with the grenade egg
>A miniature DORIYAH
>All of this on a character ever so slightly bigger than Diddy Kong
And we haven't even seen the whole moveset yet

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None of what you listed sounds anything crazy at all, just cements the idea further that he'll be mid tier at best

Cope

Nice projection, you know you can still play mid tier characters right

Hero isn’t OP, people who say that are just bad at the game. Any decent zoner or zone breaker fucks his shit up as he’s wide open whenever he opens that menu, and his normals suck dick.

So Zelda, Palutena, ZSS, etc...

His Egg firing could grant him decent stage control, especially DownB Grenade Eggs if he can pick them up. Also, don’t forget he can act out of UpB like Sonic can.

Mid Air Neutral B?

Mid tier is not a bad place to be at all. That’s where all the fun characters that go underutilized are.

Assuming his gimmick isn't complicated like Hero, Banjo should be out in early September right?
He looked near finished at E3 and it'd be 4 months since then

With a limited supply, this would not be overpowered at all.

Other than shifting regular eggs to fire eggs I wasn't really sure. BK don't have that many aerial moves that aren't connected to flying.

>Gets put to losers by a MegaMan
>Tears losers bracket a new asshole, murdering anyone in his path
>Doesn't even lose a round through finals until GF
>0-2 tweek, high percentages, tweek got this
>Guitar starts playing
>His palms sweaty, knees weak, mom's spaghetti
>not like this
>NOT LIKE THIS
Get ready for daddy sakurai to punish the only notable Joker

the fact that he got put into losers in the first place means that joker isn't the best

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I mean, they had aerial egg firing.

im thinkin the wonderwing will be the most broken part of his moveset
relatively speaking, of course

I hope he uses at least fire and ice eggs. I can do without clockwork kazooie eggs but I would be more than happy to see them.

A certain geometric-headed cretin, that's as much as I care to say.

A party game that has OP things. So what?

>implying mid tier is bad

i wish rocket eggs or something that home in on enemies outside of cheats were a thing

They probably would have been if Threeie had been a thing. Remote controlled rockets were a popular item in 007 games, and Tooie added the proximity eggs exclusively to MP.

>proximity eggs
are those like mines or did they have homing

also if rocket eggs would be guided how would homing eggs be implemented

You make the Rocket Eggs remote controlled like the Nikita in MGS, or basically an aerial version of the Clockwork eggs. Homing isn’t a type of egg, it’s just a cheat that makes your curve into enemies slightly cause aiming on N64 was pure ass. In a newer game, you could do away with that entirely as precision aiming is significantly better.

As for Proximity Eggs, they were only available in multiplayer, but they basically functioned like the Motion Sensor Bombs in Smash (which come from Perfect Dark - another Rare IP - or was it Golden Eye? I know the Cloaking Device and MS Bombs are from those games).

>Homing isn’t a type of egg, it’s just a cheat that makes your curve into enemies slightly
i know
i was saying if there was an egg type that homed in on enemies and if rocket eggs gimmick were to be guided instead of homing, what would a homing-type egg be based on

Ohh, idk. Lol.

You could do lots of things, Rare were very creative back then. It’s a real shame they never followed up on a true sequel.

But let's ignore that and keep complaining. Let's also not mention that he was the only Joker in top 8.

i think a fair amount of effort was going into conker before the buyout

speaking of rights issues i wonder how long microsoft is gonna make banjo's leash
is he just gonna get licensed for smash or are they gonna let rare replay and - god please - remakes happen on the switch

Their side B is wonderwing pretty much makes them invincible and that recovery looks like Sonic's where you can use moves after it. They're already OP

Phil Spencer is a smart businessman, and a gaming fan. I’m sure he’ll talk Rare into doing something at some point, and if not, he’ll at least try to give Banjo the Crash/Spyro treatment by giving them off to a talented studio. It’s also not unlikely he’ll allow for Switch ports of anything Banjo, so long as Microsoft gets royalties. It’s money on the table, and the Banjo reveal reaction surprised even Nintendo. I’m sure Microsoft, Nintendo, and Rare now are all well aware of how much demand there really is for the duo to make a comeback. HD remakes would at least be the safest option, and based on the sales of that, they could start planning Threeie.

Don’t forget Wonderwing = Horizontal recovery, and the fact that you can act put of UpB means they’re gonna be tough, if not impossible to edgeguard.

Up B > 2nd Jump > Hold for slight hover > Wonderwing onto the ledge

The fact that they’ll be invincible during it means, don’t even fucking bother.

i wonder if a BKN&B sequel with DKR characters is a possibility
banjo's crew acknowledged it wasn't the best way for banjo but it was still a solid game

wonderwing vs magic burst
unstoppable force vs immovable object

Hero has rng with crits and Command Select, with Magic Burst, Psyche Up, Oomph and Hatchet Man being absolutely fucking busted beyond repair. It's true that, to play at his absolute best, Hero requires a fair amount of luck.
However, His 3 other specials don't require any luck whatsoever and neither do his Smash Attacks, even without crits. He only needs two, three hits to send you offstage, and every single time he does, he can try to fish for an ability to instantly kill you. If you have to recover against a 85+ mp Magic Burst, you're dead, pretty much no matter what. Can't reflect it, can't counter it, can't dodge it, can't outlast it. But even if he doesn't have it, you constantly have to worry about his Neutral B, Side B or just a random Smash attack blowing your ass off the map clean. He has so many goddamn spacing tools and projectiles that his pressure is unending. It should also be illegal to both deal this ridiculous fucking amount of damage, while also having about a dozen tools to kill you insanely early.

Depends which lasts longer I guess. You can ALMOST Nayru to tank Magic Burst as Zelda, it’s just not active long enough to make it through unscathed.

Play Zelda. She doesn’t have to worry about his projectiles OR aerials thanks to Nayru, and lightning kicks oos. Him opening that menu up for even a split second is a free hit, even kill with farore, and she can apply better pressure with phantom who can also tank hits for her and anti edgeguard.

Also, all her normals are significantly faster than his, meaning she’ll win in neutral 9/10. ZSS with her Down B and Ranged grab, and Palutena also make quick work of him. He’s honestly not that good if a low tier character like Zelda is a hard counter for him.

>encouraging more people to play Palutena
not good no matter how noble the intentions are

it should be noted that for as much destruction as MB causes it's actually pretty tame on shields
if only there was a way to roll onstage and immediately shield without vulnerability

but in the longterm im sure that'd be unbalanced

There are traits about Hero that will get slightly nerfed with time, same for Joker. The duration of magic burst and arsene being two of them.

That's like saying Fire Emblem characters are entirely immune to attacks because they have Down B. I don't see a Zelda and think "Oh shit, projectiles are literally useless now", I just time/space them better with Nayru in mind. And Farore punishing Select Command is nonsensical if you only use Select Command after launching someone. How is she going to punish me from the side blast zone? Recover high and risk instantly dying to, well, mostly anything, recover low and risk Magic Burst/Kaswoosh.

I just want Magic Burst gone. Hero has enough fucking kill moves, he doesn't need a move that does literally absolutely everything you could ever want with no downside whatsoever that's entirely unpunishable.

Oh yeah, they're going to be hell to edgeguard. I hope they get a spike too

You can shield it, buddy. The downside is losing all your goddamn MP and not being able to use your good moves or recovery.

I've only seen one Hero use magic burst one time and I easily avoided it with Up B as Inkling. Honestly I'd feel like he'd play better with LESS moves if anything. Right now he's just a cluttered mess.

not him
but its notable that hero gets a lot of mp back just by using normals and playing the game
yeah he's in a tight spot immediately after the move but the opponent needs to capitalize on it immediately if they survive

Idk, I play against Hero a lot as Zelda and don’t struggle with them. I guess it depends on how good the Zelda player is overall. I can’t really describe my gameplan to you on paper, as a lot of it is just on the fly decision-making, but Hero is a significantly easier match up than:
FE swordies, Wario, Peach, Pokemon Trainer, Inkling, Wolf, Fox, etc...

At least for me.

I’m able to get enough of a lead on Hero, than any nonsensical bullshit he can do to guarantee kills, doesn’t really matter overall. I still win neutral the majority of the time, so truly he has less time for set ups. Deal with Zelda is that you NEVER wanna give her the time and space for stage control, cause that’s when she wins. Hero is too slow and passive to not give her that edge.

Spongebob?

>fast run speed
It doesn't actually look particularly fast or slow, actually.
>flare blitz
No. It doesn't seem to have the knockback, nor does it look like it covers distance as quickly. It looks much more similar to the koopa clowncar.

Kazooie is the Mega Buster strapped onto a straightforward playing Banjo.
People will complain about Wonder Wing being an infinitely superior Raptor Boost / Upperdash Arm that kills at ~100%.

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>A Joker main singlehandedly won EVO.
You mean the Joker who was sent to losers by a Megaman and was down 2-0 before his opponent choked on dicks and lost?

So far I just rushed down opponents and kept on the pressure as much as I can. I only need a single hit to get enough time to either Command Select or start charging Neutral B. Rest was just spacing opponents out and basic punishes. Once I launch them far enough, they are on constant catch up until they die. I'm not that high up in Elite Smash, so I don't know how much that experience actually counts. Playing Hero, I feel like I don't need his supreme bullshit to win, but the second I get time to charge any of it, it's just "Win Harder".
It's like if Joker was a perfectly viable High Tier character without Arsene.

HOW TO FIX HERO
>get rid of crits on normal smash attacks
>rework it so instead of having a stronger smash attack when he charges he instead is rolling to get a crit off a charged smash attack
>lower MP gain
>slightly lower power off his non menu spells
Hero is a pretty neat take on a RNG fighter but the crits are too much.

Apologies competitive players, but we have reached character number 72 in this game. I decided to carry on Smash 4's design choice of characters having the highest strengths that are balanced by 1 or 2 glaring weaknesses into Ultimate, I hope you look forward to Smash's competitive future.

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Oh, idk. I stopped playing online ages ago, I only play locals now. Idk, I feel is aerials and normals are too slow and predictable to really make him a threat, and this is coming from a Zelda main. A character’s normals ultimately define the character, and Hero’s are nothing to write home about. Maybe online they’re more of an issue cause they’re harder to react to, but offline it’s completely non threatening, and the fact that he can’t access Acceleration, Oomph, and Psych up consistently means you have less to worry about. Hell, I feel Shulk is a much bigger threat than he is overall.

Right now I think people are just riding the high of most not knowing the match up, but Hero has a lot pf weaknesses that do start to come through once you get used to him. Like, Hero without Mana is worthless for example. Toss him offstage at below 8 mp and he’s dead. Plus, recovering mana is quite hard given how slow his normals are. Not saying aspects of him don’t need fine tuning, but he’s far from a busted p2w character worthy of a ban. I’d struggle to even call him top tier or even high tier desu.

>Zelda
>Palutena
Lol no, he wrecks their shit. I agree with ZSS though, her kit seems built to counter Hero.

Interesting, good to see a perspective from someone higher up than me. I don't even like Hero that much so I am not going to miss him if he turns out bad later on. Much prefer playing Ike, Wario or Bayonetta. At least with them I currently don't feel like I haven't actually earned a single kill after winning a match.

bump
this is a banjo thread, remember?

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Well, she only has 2 projectiles, compared to Megaman's 7. They have similarities but Banjo seems to do better at shorter ranges.

Kek

smash bros get in here'
discord.gg/EeRZs6j

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I wonder what the difference between their specials compared to other fighters will be, particular the Grenade Egg and Shock Spring Jump. The Grenade Egg seems weird because at first glance, it resembles the Link's bombs but Banjo has to physically grab it after spawning it instead of automatically being able to hold it, so hopefully it has some major upside we haven't seen yet.

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