Ranking the Final Fantasy games objectively vs subjectively

14 > all
/thread that's it and you can't deny it.

Reminder that 7, 8, and 10 are shit and if you think they're in the top tier of FF you're a millennial who only had a PS2.

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>objectively
pfffff

>2 better than anything
>8 remotely near the top

So are you going to back up your objective ranking or what?

1,2 above all the rest.

10 has every problem that 13 has. If you rank 10 high and 13 low you're just coasting on nostalgia. 10 is a linear, boring piece of shit, you just played it as a teenager when you were receptive to it's particular brand of shittiness.

10 has a great story, great characters, and great side activities
If 13 had all of that it'd be beloved too

VII > X > IV > VI > XII > IX > V > XV > XIII > VIII > III > I > II.

12>5>7>15>9>13>6. Rest are irrelevant

Anyone who ranks 13 & 15 that low has some obviously internal bias. They are mediocre at worst, decent at best.
12 has a lot of praise from both critics & fans, so that's also objectively wrong.
1 being better than 3 shows you never actually played 3.
9, 8, 7 being that high shows how much of a PS1 Baby you are.

What a shit list.

>rating 9 that high objectively
bullshit the things 9 is best at are all the most subjective things (Music, characters, cutscenes, etc.). 9 has the worst combat engine in the series outside of maybe the NES games (which were far more limited technically).

I'm not going to do a full ranking that's gay but I'll say the games that are rated most highly in spite of their objective shortcomings are 6 and 9, and the game most under-appreciated for its objective strengths is 4. (And maybe 5 but that's mostly due to less exposure and initial western popularity)

Watch out guys, he's got a dictionary and he isn't afraid to use it.

>combat engine
If by combat system, I think XV has to be the worst. There is no depth to it nor strategy. 9's is slow and trance being out of your control are problems but it's not worse than XV.

>Final Fantasy 12 is objectively bad...
>...because it doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game.
Nice. I am glad that you've objectively determined that FF12 has a worse story, worse characters, worse locations, and worse music than FF2 or FF3. Or many others listed, but those are the most obvious problems with the comparison.

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7 is a legit good game. Flawed yes but every FF is flawed. 9 on the other hand is not that great.

Sounds plausible but I haven't played XV so can't say one way or the other.

You don't get it. It's not about "preferring" one type of "soul" over another. Each game series has core soul, and clearly certain games in a series have more of that core soul than other games within that same series.

And /that/ is something you can observe, objectively, and measure. It has nothing to do with one's feelings and preferences.

FF 4 to 9 clearly have much more of the "FF soul" than the post-merger titles. MGS1 clearly has much more of the "MGS soul" than MGS5. Silent Hill 1 to 3 clearly have much more of the "SH soul" than Homecoming and Shattered Memories. CNC Tiberian Sun and RA2 clearly has much more of the "CNC soul" than Renegade and Generals. Hopefully this helped you understand.

Grew up with the SNES and my first FF was 6 -- still have it; pic related. Btw, I read all 1000 pages of that many years ago and began reading it when it was new and it only had like 20 pages done.

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I started with I on NES on release year, you have shit taste

9 is objectively the best FF. Definitely not my favorite FF though. That's what's challenging about an objective ranking.

XV's combat also just feels bad to play, this holding the button design is awful.

My father is Sakaguchi.

Purely opinion ranked.

>And /that/ is something you can observe, objectively, and measure. It has nothing to do with one's feelings and preferences.
Then measure it. For the love of god, please. Then post your 100% infallible LOGICAL or MATHEMATICAL proof. Because that is what "objective" means, you fucking mongoloid.

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VII is jank as fuck

it is literally not possible to rank all FF titles objectively. each person has different things that they value and different things that they think of as being core ff elements.
also, frankly, anybody who parrots "uhhh 13 is shit i guess, nobody will challenge me on this so i'm just gonna say it too" needs to sit the fuck down and actually play it. if you accept that it's different and just let it do what it sets out to do, you'll see it's actually good. stop being a brainless parrot.

No, 9 is objectively not the best. You can't have an objective failure like "you have to wait 15 fucking seconds every time a battle starts watching the camera zooming around the battlefield" and claim that game to be objectively the best.

Objectively fewest bugs? Maybe.
Objectively fewest translation mistakes? Probably.

I struggle to think of any other measure at all by which 9 can be objectively considered best at anything.

Best combat? Definitely not.
Best class system? Subjective.
Most dynamic class system? No.
Best characters? Subjective.
Best story pacing? Fuck no.
Most abilities? I haven't measured this but I doubt it.
Most player agency? Literally bottom of the barrel ahead of only 10 and 13.

>subjective list is more or less the same as the objective list

Wow what are the odds

9 was so busy trying to have soul and be a love letter to their legacy they forgot to make the gameplay fun

Bad story, bad characters, simplistic combat, linear as fuck gameplay. FFX at least let you wander around and explore a bit. The biggest things that FFXIII has are flashiness and presentation, which it does well but are not what most people are going to consider the primary factors in comparing a JRPG series.

If you were actually going to try and rate games as "solid understanding of what a proper FF should be like" how are you putting 1 so far back? It's literally what sets the tone for the entire series and everything else should be based on.

The idea is this typical Fantasy world with the sci-fi influences in the technology and world design. FF1 had this as a "twist" halfway through, while game like 2 and 4 had airships and more technology present from the start.

If I were to rate games as "the best representation of what FF is" it would look something like:
1>4>5>2>14>9>6>11>3>Tactics>7>8>12>>15>13

But the actual quality of these games isn't even close. My personal preference for the games would be more like:

9>4>6>Tactics>7>12>14>5>1>8>13>11>10>>2>15

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The only thing 12 does better than any other FF is having two stand out characters.

It's like you didn't play at all, and are only parroting that it's bad.

10 is absolutely fucking horrible. I can't believe that people have any sort of affection for that huge turd. Everything from the characters, the voice acting, the designs, the whole aesthetic in general is like a dumpster exemplified. I cannot properly describe my revulsion when playing FFX.

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I did not play it although I would love to hear how being dream-commanded to follow an alien monster's orders, and having two groups split and do completely opposite things, and it turn out that the Pope they should kill was the one who sent the dream commands in the first place, is anything other that FF8-tier story writing. I mean, I'll bitch about the plot in FF2, but at least it made sense and had a fun twist at the ending.

I've heard that 13-3 has some good gameplay, but the combat in 13-1 looks to be just mashing attack. A lot of Final Fantasy games at least punish that sort of play style, despite the X to Attack meme.

Hey look a faggot acting like 10 is anything but dogshit... I bet you also like Witcher and Breath of the Wild.

X is the best game in the series.

How old were you when you first played X?

Aside from having voice acting (play the undub version - it's so much more pleasant on the ears) 10 is certainly different in some ways to the previous installments, and its linearity is what brings it down in ranking -- all the other things though, the great things, the positive things in the game, make up for it and are what prevents it from falling lower than fifth place (in the objective ranking).

If 10 had a world map and you were free to travel around just as you wanted and the story wasn't so heavily in focus, in other words if it was more like 7-9 in that regard, then it would be in 4th place (ever so slightly better than 7).

When it comes to the /subjective/ ranking however, I /used to/ prefer both 4 and 9 over 10 -- but that changed a few years ago after replaying 4 and 9 and realizing there isn't /really/ that much to like in FF4, and that I was remembering it through rose-colored glasses so to speak. Still like 4 more than 9 though (even though objectively clearly 9 is a better crafted FF than 4). My personal problem with 9 is the characters, they're certainly well-written and I don't /dislike/ them -- just never could relate to any of them and none feel "cool" or interesting.

Anyone that bitches about FFXIII's gameplay being simplistic or just mindlessly hitting attack is a giant red flag. It's a surefire sign they either haven't played XIII, or they haven't played a fucking final fantasy.

Anyway here's an endgame boss in FFX, the one that gets the most regular praise for the combat
youtu.be/aTR6cTOG1JQ?t=621

And here's XIII
youtu.be/JypdLjgU9ME?t=47

19

I 100% agree that 13 has good endgame gameplay, especially more than something like 10. But you do have to acknowledge that 13's gameplay doesn't actually activate until you have your characters that are decently leveled in like 2-3 different paradigms so you can actually shift through them effectively. The 10 hour prologue/tutorial meme exists for a reason. It's not a flaw we can just brush aside.

>can't even quantify what is the "soul" of FF
>still uses it as an "objective" qualification in his ranking
Lmao, this is just embarrassing

The story is set up as being a fight that the heroes can not win. They are forced to go on a journey to fulfill their final will and testament essentially. In doing so they learn more about themselves, who they are, why they are (not a typo), and who they want to be. It's a character growth journey. Things like Robot Pope being the villain is window dressing for the setting, but even that makes sense in context with how the world works (which is better explained in 13-2 & LR).
The combat is also pretty complex with different paradigms (jobs) that you set up different combos with for different situations. All serve a purpose and all are needed. The gameplay is also more efficient by manual input, leaving it to the default choices will lead to long battles or in the missions & post game, abject failure.
13-2 & LR expand on 13 in story & gameplay and are so incredibly better for it. 13-2 is a legit GOTY contender for it's time and LR is super fun to grind.

I'd recommend actually playing the games before you try to talk about them objectively.

hah, which ones? Ashe and Basch? all the 12 characters are made from cardboard man... some maybe are made from a bit thicker cardboard but damn...

>"objective" ranking
>0 fact to back anything up
>when asked use subjective qualifier like bad

>I didn't play it
Hahhahahaha

That's not really something exclusive to FFXIII though, most of them don't really open up until endgame. You won't start thinking about sending your party down different sphere grids paths until you hit around zanarkand in X.

Them having a long 10-hour tutorial was in response to criticism that XII was too non-linear.

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5 > all

>XII that it is only a cheap rehash of various themes from the previous games and very poorly put together.

Explain this?

I don't know, I think 12 just suffered some corporate interference that fucked it over. It feels like Fran was supposed to be the player character but they didn't want to shy away from an anime pretty boy yet, or humans. It was also cashing in on the wildly successful Ivalice era but wasn't really the Ivalice people had come to love.

With the mind of a 14 year old apparently

X is bad though. Most of X is just swapping your characters in and out for every single trash encounter so you don't fall behind in levels.

6, 7, 8, 9 all had their primary gameplay pretty much set just a couple hours into the game. You got more abilities and more customization later, but the primary gameplay didn't DRASTICALLY change like it does when you finally hit critical mass in 13.

>9>4>6

Explain this

>let's compare a complicated method for speed-killing an optional superboss
>to a standard mandatory fight that is required to beat the game
Okay, now let's see what the standard combat in FFXIII looks like.
youtube.com/watch?v=I6auT2NC0oY

Also, who the fuck praises FFX for its combat?

>looks to be
stop that

>[FF1] literally what sets the tone for the entire series and everything else should be based on.
I would say FF4 set the tone for the series until 10 or 12.
The 3 NES games were kind of stumbling about and experimenting trying to refine the gameplay, systems, and content. Then with FF4 everything just came together at once in a smooth, slick, soulful package. It was head and shoulders above any of its competition at the time with its fast-paced gameplay, fantastic soundtrack, and tasteful well-animated graphics.

Looking back, the biggest gripes about FF4 involve the lack of customization and a desire for just more in terms of content (also some Yea Forumsshit over-analysis. Don't have time to deal with those retards atm suffice to say the story is good enough to pull players in from the start). A game leaving you with a desire for more content is usually a good sign and the limited customization options led to a real focus on the the combat and action rather than getting bogged down in menuing and such like other, slower-paced RPGs. It also enables the game to design the content to have a gradually increasing difficulty in a way that few other RPGs have ever done as successfully.

From FF4 onward, the dynamic ATB-style combat along with great music and story became the primary identity of the series. FF5 took it to the next level with far more customization, abilities, and content, but kept the same gameplay loop and pacing from FF4. Even when the ATB system was finally (and wisely) ditched for FF10, most of its rules were kept, just the real-time element was taken out.

The next real turning point was FF7, and that was really only in the scale of the storytelling. Everything else was just streamlined gameplay ideas from FF3 and FF4.

Still a shitload more going on there then a typical FF

>penance
>standard mandatory fight

Que

>criticism that XII was too non-linear.
Considering XII is entirely linear, I'm going to have doubt that.

>The story.
Same theme as FFT, political intrigue.
The characters.
Same depth as FFT, with the advantage of not having the retarded FFT localization attempts.
>The locations.
Same world as FFT, Ivalice.
>The music.
Same composer as FFT, Hitoshi Sakimoto.
So why is FFT praised by the same people who admonish against XII?

>FF 4 to 9
They are the best examples of the soul. Go play them and you'll know. If you haven't played them, you can't possibly know. 10 has that soul as well, and even 1 to 3 does, but the soul is much stronger and more alive (in every aspect) in 4 to 9. After 3 the FF soul fully matured, in 10 it began to die, after 10 it was dead.

>I would say FF4 set the tone for the series
Play FF3, for God's sake. It literally set up EVERYTHING that FF is. It's one of the most common games that Japanese Devs mention, that got them into the industry.

>So why is FFT praised by the same people who admonish against XII?
I dislike XII and I don't praise Tactics. Played it, thought it was boring.

im a nostalgiafag

also 4 was my first game in the series and something about the transformation from dark knight to paladin is just super cool to me. along with the characters that you could lose like Palum/Porum/Tellah was kind of a new thing to me and was really impactful for the time it was made.

9 was basically a return to the Fantasy setting after 7 and 8 and stuck with me a lot too. while 9 certainly has some gameplay issues, the world was really exciting and felt "lived in" with all the special events and things you get to take part in.

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VIII is my favorite

Probably because all those things are much better executed in FFT, and it has better combat and character customization as well. I also wouldn't say the two games have the same setting: they're nothing alike other than the name.

Sounds about right.

X is my favorite because internal monologues are my favorite narrative trope. Narrator Tidus is also the best character in any FF game.

The main character in 12 is just a DBZ fusion of Zidane and Tidus. Cringe and bland.

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>Play FF3, for God's sake. It literally set up EVERYTHING that FF is. It's one of the most common games that Japanese Devs mention, that got them into the industry.

Why is FF3 unpopular?

>in 10 it began to die, after 10 it was dead.

What's wrong with Final Fantasy 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15?

I mean I put 4 as the number two slot on BOTH my lists, so I definitely agree that it's a very influential and important game in the series. But OPs list entirely disregarding 1 (it's behind 8 and 10? what??) seems quite suspect to me.

Great:
4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Good:
1, 9, 10, 12
Ok:
15
Garbage:
13

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They're all bad games.

>objectively

You do know what that word means don't you?

Nah. The difference is more obvious when seen like this:

> 9 > 8 > 7 > 6 > 10 > 5 > 4 > 1 > 3 > 2 >>>>> 12 > 13 > 15
> 8 > 6 > 7 > 10 > 4 > 9 > 5 > 3 > 1 > 2 >>>>> 12 > 15 > 13

>Why is FF3 unpopular?
Because it was never released in the west during the industry's formative years. Same for FFV, same for any Japanese game that never made it over here, Sakura Taisen, Oreshika, etc.

Any attempts to fix that were way after the fact, so the damage was already done.

Bet you've only played less than half of them

FFT never really felt like a Final Fantasy game it felt like a spin-off that happened to have better gameplay than the mainline series.
>Same theme as FFT, political intrigue.
Given that this is the first thing you mention about the FF12/FFT comparison is a pretty good sign we won't see eye-to-eye on anything.
FFT is a high-concept "truth behind the legend" narrative focused on Ramza (and Delita) that also manages to have a lot of lore and world-building and a cynical/grimdark tone.
FF12 is... I don't even fucking know how to describe it in one sentence. A street urchin and his waifu randomly get involved into a convoluted mess of political intrigue for intrigue's sake in the world with Bunny Girls and Judges from that GBA tactics game for little kids.

Why were the early FF titles better than the later FF titles?

Not the person you're responding to, but I agree with what he said. 10 was the death of the overworld and massively taken back on the scope of adventure and "epic". The setting wasn't anywhere near as inspired as the previous entries, and the gameplay loop felt bad compared to the previous games as well. I'm not going to say it was the WORST game, but it was definitely the start of the decline.

11 was fine, but many people skip it because it's an MMO. 12 was rife with issues. 13 is one of the most memed games in existence, that only gets good once you're on Pulse. 14 is kino FF after the first expansion, but still disregarded because it's an MMO. 15 is a dumpster fire with one of the worst action rpg gameplays we've had, one of the most empty open worlds with endless meaningless fetch quests, and then maybe a small redemption in the final acts? (but not as much as 13's final act).

Basically yes, 10 was the start of the decline.

FF12 drops the political intrigue as a main point the plot develops around half way in. It turns into generic fantasy shlock at that point. The main characters are all incredibly one dimensional except for Balthier and Basche. We all know the reason why Vaan and Penelo even exist and it isn't for the better. The combat system is actually garbage that is 100% balanced around the tuning of the gambit system which results in every fight being 90% auto attacks and passive abilities and becomes borderline unplayable without it at the fastest speed during fights in the latter half of the game. The grid system is actually atrocious and IZJS only made it worse, artificially limiting each character into a specific tree where there is even LESS player agency and dynamic action than before. At least in the original you could build your class as you wanted and having everyone become a Red Mage was the fault of an unimaginative player. In IZJS over half of the classes are wholly under powered at the late game and are even more boring to play because you can't pad down time while auto attacking with abilities from other classes of spell. The overwhelming majority of maps are boring as fuck to traverse through with nothing interesting to see, intriguing plot developments are few and far between and the game comes to an abrupt end with a main villain the characters don't even see until the end or necessarily have any motivation to actually care about.

FF12 is an actual dogshit 4/10 game and I've tried on so many different occasions to like it. It's just a poorly made slog that is boring from start to finish.

Limited resources forced creativity
That's it.
If devs had less leeway for dev time, we'd get less bloaty and more on time and creative games.

I've played more than half

so eat my dick faggot

>BUY HIS GAME

already did. So bad I didn't go back after free updates or any DLC

8 should be applauded for daring to do something wildly different. Yes, it failed in a few big ways. Yes, the orphanage 'everybody lost their memory' arc is dogshit. Yes, the game didn't really communicate how to best use its resources. Yes, the level scaling can be broken.
It's also one of the more memorable FF experiences if you give it a chance to shine. I legitimately feel bad for people who can't admit that for all of its failings it did some things VERY well.
All of the PS FFs are fantastic, and I love seeing how they all get their own unique things 'right'.

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devs think they have to innovate on every entry and do something new. they could literally just make more 6-9 over and over with the same if not slightly updated ATB systems (maybe if the new FF7R system works?) and we would eat it up. But they make drastic changes every time.

My biggest gripe is with the dynamics of the music. It doesn't matter whether you're exploring or when you're fighting, you're getting the same music. It really starts to wear you down when it loops for the 200th time.
The sound design for that game was just uninspired and boring. That's the main intangible of why it's such a slog to get through.

There's nothing major wrong with 10. I only said the soul /began/ to die with 10. Like, early signs of death was showing. It was still alive and well in 10. Just a bit less alive.

See: No amount of changing the job or battle system in 12 can ever make it a better game. It's like re-arranging the furniture on a sinking ship in an attempt to save the ship -- a ship that's been struck by a mine and doesn't even have have any lifeboats and was built with rotted wood.

>ff12 is about political intrigue
>hmm how should we do this
>slowly gain allegiances around ivalice who are sick of the emperors shit or committing acts of subterfuge to get people on your side as you slowly build up a force that can serve to establish your dynasty back to it's rightful place
>i know, lets go around the world and collect some random magic mcguffins so you can 1 shot the big bad with your group of 4 people and that's it
ff12 fucking sucks dick

> 'everybody lost their memory' arc is dogshit.
That's a crucial part to the story. Without that scene (arc? seriously?) the player has no chance of fully understanding the plot.

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See

>the player has no chance of fully understanding the plot.

not really, you could remove that scene and nothing would be changed

Yeah I've played it. That's where they rounded out most of their ideas for standard classes and story-based gameplay, but it's not the quintessential FF game the way IV is.
- Still round-based combat, not ATB. Instead of a continuous flow of making decisions and seeing results, you issue 4 instructions and then wait for a minute while everything happens. Very awkward pacing.
- Story doesn't have quite the same initial pull as FF4. No distinctive protagonist like Cecil the Dark Knight doubting his King after following orders to commit a clearly evil act.
- Still much more jank in terms of user experience. For example if you open a door with a switch then go to the menu screen, when you return to the field map the door will have reset.
- MP still uses the FF1-style, which I kind of prefer but was abandoned.

FF4 is just way more polished and representative of the series as a whole.

It's such an unbelievable stretch. it's the kind of revelation that's pulled out of a writer's ass when they're trying to write a puzzle but have no believable way to solve it.

you gain nothing from it. they could have known eachother and it wouldn't really have changed a thing. Irvine choking could have EASILY shifted and the hesitation would still be there.

I just can't imagine how anyone would want to swim in this sea of (mostly)shit to have an opinion about all these games...

I have only finished 6 and 10 and I would rank them: 6 > 10

8 relies heavily on implicit storytelling, not explicit. So that scene informing the player that having summons junctioned fucks up your mind/memory, is actually needed.

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>let's all just be objective for a moment and agree with my opinion
Fuck you OP, you eternal faggot.

and it contributes fuck all to the story

Any game where any character can get any ability is dogshit. Why have a bunch of characters that aren’t differentiated at all?

In FF8, there's a track named "The Man With The Machinegun" and that title is a reference to Laguna. Likewise, there's a track named "Maybe I'm A Lion". Let me ask you, which character is the name of that track a reference to? I mean the title of that music, not the music itself. Is that character Squall?

and what does ANY of that have to do with the memory wiping bullshit?

>Limited resources forced creativity
Nah it's not just that. Sakaguchi also has legit good taste in music and aesthetics and while he might not be some kind of amazing writer he did have a real knack for a good videogame story and presentation. Look at say, "Lufia & the Fortress of Doom" for SNES and try playing the first 30 minutes or so. Pay attention to how the game is introduced to the player both in terms of story and gameplay. Then compare it to FF4, a game that came out 2 years earlier.

Lufia is a jumbled mess and frankly reminds me of FF12 in the mistakes it makes as far as unnecessary exposition and misguided gameplay introduction (you take control of a high-level party and fight through a highish level area and fight 5 high-level bosses, at a point when the player doesn't know jack shit about the gameplay mechanics). 30 minutes in and you're in a generic JRPG starting village and still have no idea what your first real gameplay objective is going to be.

FF4 is a tightly focused setup of the main conflict for Cecil (You). It demonstrates two quick AI battles in the opening sequence then after a few cutscenes all directly involving the main protagonist of the game, you set out with two overpowered but simple melee characters to blow through the first wilderness and dungeon of the game.

All of the SNES Final Fantasy games are like this, as is FF7.

Just answer the question. It's a test to see if you understand the story or not. If you answer correctly, then you should also understand why that scene is important and is integral to the story.

>The main characters are all incredibly one dimensional except for Balthier and Basch
I would argue that any of the judges/ex-judges are interesting characters, not just Balthier and Basch. Vaan and Penelo are shoveled-in shit-tier, but that goes without saying.

Can you just explain why the memory wiping was 'essential' without leading people with questions?

I haven't played all of them so I can't really do a ranking but I always loved the mood of FF1. In some ways the complete lack of characters benefits the game as it creates a world truly on the brink. People in town simply ask you to please, save the world. Plus the town music is great. youtu.be/7jSLvkumQMg

the list goes 15>14>13>12>...>2>1

objectively 15 is a greater number than 14, there for it is greater. Just judging by this fact alone, 15 is 14 final fantasies better than 1.

Squall and Co cant remember what happened at the Orphanage when they were little. Old Squall SHOWED UP chasing Ultimecia into the past and told Cid and Edea what happened, which kickstarts Cid organizing the kids to wind up together without them knowing theyll be setting in motion something thats already technically happened. Characters have forgotten plot beats set earlier in the story that you, as a player, as supposed to be privy to due to tidbits left here and there as well as Flashbacks. The kids knowing nothing they werent explicitly told allowed them to challenge LE EVIL SORCERESS as the good guys and then couldnt question killing her.

It mightve been bad if they knew they had literally no agency to make their own fate, and were being manipulated into working together to kill what is ESENTIALLY their Foster Mom because it has to happen that way. They would likely not understand and instead try to rebel against their mostly predetermined fate.

2 > 9 > 15 > 5 > 7 > 12 > 4 > 3 > 13 > 14 > 1

Only ones I've played

No, it's fun being cryptic. And yes I know it's annoying to everyone else.

Anyway so obviously, the reason you didn't answer is because you believe it's Squall which is what basically everyone including me assumed when first playing the game and first checking out the soundtrack. Since you believe the "Maybe I'm A Lion" reference is to Squall, you've shown you don't really understand the story. If you did understand the story, then you'd know which character "Maybe I'm A Lion" is a reference to and you would also know why that scene about having a summon junctioned over time destroys your mind/memory is important.

It's not the most important scene in the game, but it is ONE important scene which serves the purpose (implicitly) telling the story. Removing that scene would be similar to removing the scene where Rinoa gets Griever from Squall.

for me, the subjective best is XI, and that is mainly because of how impressive it was for me back then

You are objectively a retard

From the ones I've played
4 > 10 > 6 > 7 > 9 > 5 > 15

American detected.

>go play them and you'll know
So you still can't quantify it? You entire argument is moot if you can't do even that much
Muh feels isn't a valid argument, retardo

12 is by far the best FF

only children and anime fans think otherwise

>mfw I am not American but for some reason he thinks I am

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10 started all the bad trends people would latter blow the fuck out of 13 for. It was simply executed better and narrative/mechanics worked in tighter synergy with one another.

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everything > furry central
aka
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9

not the main character

Boring gameplay
I played the game for a couple dozen hours with the Zodiac Age, but only really the story, art-design and some of the characters kept me going. The gameplay is really stale and too hands-off
I'd even go so far as to say 15 is better because at least you are touching a button.

6=7=8=9=12=15>10=13>14>5>4>3>1>2>>>11

I'd say FF4 was the formative game narrative-wise. It doesn't meant FF3 didn't have that, but was pushed further in the sequel. FF6 was really the culmination of what they learned so far in terms of how to structure the narrative and characters.

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based

Also, there is no redeeming qualities for 9. It is all around a bad game at everything it tries to get across

>11 was fine, but many people skip it because it's an MMO.

People to this day do not believe 11 had a good story because it was an MMORPG. I'm kinda surprised the climate has changed so much people can now play 14 exclusively for story and be happy with it.

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You must be from reddit. And 12 is basically an interactive anime in case you didn't notice. Play it in Japanese and that becomes more obvious (simultaneously though it also makes the game less cringe because you won't be hearing the awkward english voices).

But 10 was the quintessential anime experience

Yeah, and that's why it's annoying. People who say "13 is just press auto attack to victory" are riding the bandwagon, but that's because they haven't played it. Had they actually done that they would've changed the line to "13 over complicates throwaway fights with Simon says bullshit usually reserved for bosses". I don't want to stagger every enemy.

schizo

Not sure about 13 but for 12 pressing the action/x button is certainly all you need to do to win battles. Just give everyone swords, level up a bit, set them all to auto-attack (G) nearest enemy and the enemy that the leader is attacking, and then the game almost plays itself.

>unnecessary exposition

What makes it unnecessary exposition?

>FF6 was really the culmination
It wasn't a culmination in narrative structure so much as the point where they started adding interactivity to events. You had the opera house and Imperial dinner event with multiple-choice dialogs. You had the mode-7 sequences like the underwater trench and the minecart in Vector. You had the fishing minigame with Celes, the Coliseum, and the Auction House.

That was the type of thing that FF6 introduced and FF7 took to another level with full-fledged minigames and stuff like tracking dialog choices over a long period of time to change what date scene plays at the gold saucer.

>People to this day do not believe 11 had a good story because it was an MMORPG
It's more like people don't consider FF11 a final fantasy game because it was a blatant Everquest clone at a time when Final Fantasy had a well-established gameplay formula.

Are you doing the whole R=U thing

Perhaps I should have said "exposition that does not need to be the first thing the player sees in the game." The player's first experience with game is having to sit through some really generic-sounding legend of the 4 Sinistrals who did some kind of evil or whatever. And if this was just an adventure game like Zelda where the legend was there to establish your main objective from the get-go it would be fine. But as it is it's just a delay between pressing "start" and actually starting to play the game.

>FF1
>That low
I'd say it's among the better games because it's easier to get into and leaves a lot more to the imagination. Plays more like a role-playing game and removes what most people find unappealing about Final Fantasy

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>9 > 8 > 7 > 6 > 10 > 5 > 4 > 1 > 3 > 2 >>>>> 12 > 13 > 15

>8 > 6 > 7 > 10 > 4 > 9 > 5 > 3 > 1 > 2 >>>>> 12 > 15 > 13

going to attribute this to shitposting, but responding anyway

obj:
9>10>6>4>5>7>12>13>3>1>2>8
sub:
9>5>6>10>4>7>12>13>3>1>2>8

If we added main number but all of them XI would be top for both. Fight me.

They're all shit, next topic.

(cont.)
That kind of establishing legend is a common RPG trope, which is probably why it shows up in a game like Lufia. Many players are fine with it but the fact is it's not really a good decision most of the time. Also, if it was JUST the legend as a kind of brief prologue, it would be just generic and kind of boring rather than bad. Where Lufia really gets into trouble is doing the kind of "false start" and having the player play through the whole ending of the legend. It's a clever idea but one that misses main objectives of the introduction which should be to kickstart the gameplay and the plot. You spend 15 minutes on a story sequence that gets immediately set to the back-burner, and your only gameplay introduction is a bit overwhelming and also feels pointless since there are no stakes and everything is going to probably reset anyway when you get to the end of the prologue.

This is similar to FF12 where you have all these sequences involving Ashe and Basch and the great conflict and war backdrop presented in a dramatic matter, and then a gameplay sequence as a character who winds up NOT being the protagonist (and whose relationship is not revealed until later). And then all of that shit is set to back burner when it's time to start the actual game.

Looks like we have a bluepilled NPC here.

FF became increasingly anime over the years. I mean, it has always been anime, but starting with FF7 it really started trying to be more trendy and fashionable. The only exception to this since 1997 is FF9. Every game since has been dominated by characters designed primarily to be 2cool4u or sexy.
PS I don't have a problem with sexy characters but I can't deny the trend the series has taken.

6>9>4>5>14>10>13-2>13>7>12>13-3>1>3>15>2>8

FF7 is overrated and 8 is hot trash, your game is shit when the minigames are better than the combat system.

For me it's
9 > 6 > 1 > 7 > 3 > 5 > 4 > 10 > 8 > 2 >>>>>>> 12 > 15 >>>>>> 13
I haven't played 14 anywhere because I never played it.

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You can't rank them retard.

ALL FFs are great. With all I obviously mean 4-10. Every FF is so fucking different that you can't really compare them.

"I haven't played it because I haven't played it"

7 > 10 > 6 > 8 > 9 > 12. The rest are either MMOs or completely unplayable trash that no one should ever even attempt to play,

Objectively speak, 6 is the best. The worst objectively is probably 2. No one enjoys playing that game on the famicom.

Interesting lists, but you didn't list your objective criteria, so for all intent and purposes no one can tell whether it is objective or not.

I meant to write "I can't place 14 anywhere because I never played it"
Reminder that I shouldn't be staying up late at night drinking coffee.

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I unironically enjoyed 4. Kys.

I dont know how you can talk shit about 12 and ignore 2.
2 is the worst ff, period.

>Objectively speaking, 6 is not the best.
Fixed.

>putting 8 that high ever.

Nah 12 is amazing and if anything its the black sheep of the entire series.

My favorite FF is objectively the best FF. Your opinion is stupid.
/thread

It's because 8 has the best music of any FF.

It is absurdly good, the world theme is burned straight into my brain till the rest of my life.

>"Objectively" meaning leaving your feelings/preference out of it, and ranking the games solely based on which is the better crafted FF.

"better" is a subjective term, to say one thing is better or worse than another thing is to add "feelings/preference" to it. You can say game A has more pixel then game B which is an objective finding but to saying Game A is better because of the pixel amount is a subjective statement.

On top of that you say
>and you must of course have a solid understanding of what a proper FF should be like (in other words not shit like for example Crisis Core or X-2 or 15 etc) and ALSO you must be able to tell when an FF has the genuine soul of an FF game as opposed to when it's actually soulless and simply masquerading as an FF (like 12, 13, 15). ,

which is a subjective statement in of itself. Overall I find this a poor thread with an even poorer understanding of what subjective vs objective means. This is my subjective opinion, of course, based on objective evidence before me.

Holy fuck this is one of the worst ranking FF threads I've read and those are not specially good.

>XII that it is only a cheap rehash of various themes from the previous games and very poorly put together.
What? XII was the most radical systematic departure from any "core" FF since II.

>II not with XV
>I higher than III
>V that low despite having the best gameplay and customization
>IX that high with poor character & plot handling post-disc 2 and little customization

>"better" is a subjective term
No it's not. It can be sometimes though.

Just because a game is better to you doesn't mean it is truly a better made game. And just because you like one game more than another doesn't mean it also is objectively a better game. Try to understand the difference. You can like game Z better than game Y, and to you game Z is better than game Y (for whatever personal reasons). But at the same time, you can also recognize that game Y is actually a superior, more well-crafted game than Z.

Reminder that 13 is three games and you should rank each one differently.

>Bing bing I press buttons wahoo
Shut up faggot, Long Gui is literally poison spam, there is no strategy. FFX is above that, because what you focus on is not the move you use, but the turn order and how not to get fucked up.

This could be helpful for you:

Let's put aside Episode 1 to 3 to make this as clear as possible.

The original Star Wars triology is /objectively/ superior to the new (7,8,9 etc) Star Wars movies. The original triology is filmed in a better way, has better characters, etc, and has the genuine "Star Wars" soul -- which obviously the newest movies don't, or at the very least, you must admit, they have to a much lesser degree.

It's with all things considered, with everything taken into account and weighed. Five has good gameplay, yes, but the story isn't that great and neither are the characters (they're far from bad though).

This is helpful to no one. Think harder, please. Specially on determining "soul" as an objective term and not something you got drilled inside your head because of this fucking shithole being your only source of reading. Almost got a fucking aneurysm.

9 and its catastrophic sales, was what brought the dead of FF, 10 wasn't intoxicated by it because it was developed at the same time, and managed to restore the FF name, but it was too late, and every entry after it were a disaster, just like 9.

>"better" is a subjective term, to say one thing is better or worse than another thing is to add "feelings/preference" to it
It's not subjective when you outline an objective criteria and then apply that criteria fairly.
In threads like this people tend to assume use of common standards of quality like not having a clear and effective UI and not being riddled with bugs. Although obviously a lot of anons don't really understand objectivity and still try to claim it.

I was going to simply recommend You to try thinking more, in response to this post: but instead gave you a helpful analogy to get your mind out of the spot it's stuck in.

Based

>what brought the dead of FF
That would be the merger.

Not the same user, sorry.

You don't get to leave this one like that 9fag, your shitty game and the death of hype it caused stopped ff10 at being the best selling ff, now at number 2. If there is a ff without soul that's 9, and a bit 6.

> Almost got a fucking aneurysm.
100% American.

Nice post, made me laugh.

No. That would be your shitty final fantasy 9 created before the merger. That game alienated the FF "brand" after the success of 7, and the still succesfull but not quite as 7 FFVIII. It's a miracle FFX had that recognition after that failure.