How come turn based JRPGs are so kino?
Let's talk about favorite Turn based JRPGs, whether it be your Personas, or your Final Fantasys. Talk about em!
What are you playing right now? What are some good turn based JRPGs coming out soon?
SRPG gridbased faggots no need apply.
I'm playing Dragon Quest on mobile phone
It's pretty good
Recently finished replaying through FF7 and FF10. Enemy Skill materia is OP as fuck for most of the game. Also Sphere Grid is pretty neat when you really play around with it. Kimahri was my strongest attacker for most of the game and had Mug as soon as I got my first Lv2 Key sphere, so I had tons of items. Plus I moved Yuna over to Lulu's position as soon as she reached the -aga level spells. Yuna's magic is so high that she quickly took over as my main damage dealer, especially after she got Doublecast.
Now I'm playing through Skies of Arcadia. The color system is a bit difficult to keep track of; I can never remember which colors beat which. I'm at the sand temple right now, so I think I'm still pretty early in the game. So far I haven't found anything that really lets me break the game aside from the fact that healing items are so cheap.
They're pretty much the only types of games I play anymore. The Etrian series, Grandia 1 & 2 and SMT are the best series.
Currently playing through Bravely Default. Very good game so far.
Is grandia 2 any good?
It's one of my favorite JRPGs. Granted, the game is very linear, but the battle system is really fun.
>How come turn based JRPGs are so kino?
Because all the development effort can be focused on setting up everything to look as cool as possible from the best camera angles given the gameplay is straight up written off as stuff you do to get more flashy attacks and rarely attempt to offer much substance.
SMT is the only good turnbased rpg series.
I want to play Skies of Arcadia again, what was annoying was sega had a big survey a month or so ago about what you would be interested in as time passes and it wasn't even in the list. Guess they fuckin shelved it for good or until people ask enough. I would seriously settle for a port instead of having to emulate or dig out my Dreamcast.
>Luster Candy
>Highest damage attack or else A to B elemental weakness exploition
>Heal if needed
Wew such strategic and tactical depth.
JRPGs could so easily have far more tactical combat, but virtually every convention they have goes against this. HP doesn't need to be conserved over time because you can heal whenever, and that would be limited by MP, but then MP restoring items etc. so planning ahead of time barely matters. Even even if that wasn't the case, random battles would just discourage exploration if they were hard enough to drain your resources, as their very randomness makes it impossible to plan around them ahead of time, and this just encourages the player to just power through shit. The very fact that leveling up is typically so strong and grind-able means that the developer could never tailor a series of encounters so that they would provide an appropriate tactical challenge, and even if they did, the 'harder the encounter the more the player is generally encouraged to simply make risky 'sub-optimal' choices that will work after enough times (given stuff like enemy attacks are chosen randomly instead of via 'smart' AI), as opposed to making safe decisions.
It's a clusterfuck of a genre.
Play more JRPGs you fucking casual
That's because it's just applied gambling for the most part.
If you know what the enemy is going to do(patterns, enemy always going for a killshot), you know what to do. If you don't, you're shooting dice on making the "correct" choice, which is easily determinable mathematically.
If you know what encounters lie ahead of you, you know whether to conserve HP/MP or go all out. If you don't, you're just guessing.
It will always be the Rick and Morty of genres.
>The color system is a bit difficult to keep track of; I can never remember which colors beat which.
I had trouble remembering too, but I seem to recall the colors were more important for developing magic. Setting everyone to the same color lets you fast track some useful spells pretty quickly.
>not having your DC set up
This is the exact response you fucks always give. "Ha, look at this game that's obscure enough that you probably haven't played, it totally actually has good gameplay this time, unlike absolutely everything else that we claimed the same thing about and turned out to be as shallow as everything else".
You'd have to play every bloody thing in the genre just so you can't use this retarded line of argument. If you can't explain why your shit doesn't stick then there's no reason to bother.
Lost Sphear was pretty good, I don't know why it never got the recognition it deserves.
>proven wrong
>that one doesn't count
every time
Please be joking.
>fuck, it's not fair that jrpgchads have so many games to choose from while us wrpgcucks can only circlejerk the same five games from 20 years ago!
>be me 38
>played FFIV growing up so many times the local game rental place gave me my copy of it (probably because they made 3x the price of the game through just me)
>know the game inside out
>find out about FF4Randomizer recently
>mfw i've played 3 runs already this week
didnt meant to link you to my bad
Seriously, I'm totally open to any actually explanation as to why this particular game is actually good, and why it just so happens that I've never heard anyone discuss it, ever, despite it apparently offering the pinnacle of gameplay of the genre. Please fire away.
>why it just so happens that I've never heard anyone discuss it, ever
I hate to say this but you are in fact a huge casual.
Again. Either you have perfect information and you can make the correct choice, or you have imperfect information and are relying on blind luck for your payoff, or else you've added action elements to give some actual gameplay.
The games are all mathematically determinable. There's no skill involved.
They're more comparable to those autochess games than they are to any strategy genre. Skinner box games for brainlets who think they're being big brained for casting the fire spell on the enemy weak to fire.
>Either you have perfect information and you can make the correct choice, or you have imperfect information and are relying on blind luck for your payoff
Literally Dungeons and Dragons
You mean the game with the dice yes? The dice?
I mean yes Dungeons and Dragons is mostly the same, for the same reasons turn based combat was so massive all those years ago. It's easier to let RNG decide what the character does than to actually give the player agency to make their own decisions. You literally only need to put in some numbers and a dice roll. The computer has the agency which is very basic. Computers couldn't handle advanced action like that which could be simulated.
What the fuck kind of game do you think has "appropriate tactical challenge" then?
Dept. Heaven games are hardly obscure unless you're a total casual, which you undoubtedly are.
This is even more embarassing since you're pushing an argument that is dismantled piece by piece but how their games are built and you have to pull the "I don't know this game so it doesn't matter".
Dice rolls in D&D, especially videogames do not matter beyond level 5, there's so many ways to completely dominate dice rolls or just outright ignore them that they're hardly even a factor, and knowledgeable players can still largely ignore them at low level too.
This is the usual loser argument that you people also love to spam when it comes to the more core games like TLR (or SaGa in general), you blame the RNG and pretend there's no skill involved when you're ironically so unskill you can't grasp and process basic risk management and planning.
Yeah bro all JRPGs are mindless grinds with no player agency, now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go credit feed a shmup for 100 hours until I've memorized the entire game and then jack my big fat cock off to having gotten a totally legitimate 1cc.
Okay then I'll concede D&D isn't the same because I don't know much about it tbqh. That wasn't my point in the first place.
Genres can have tactical depth added by giving players more options. RTS genres, even MOBAS have multiple tactical options such as vision game, resource distribution/management map objectives etc. Vision control especially because you, the player, are in charge of getting the information you need to make the correct plays. Even games like XCOM have an added layer of depth by use of the grid system as opposed to the FFX style posted in the OP.
okay sweetie don't forget your inhaler.
Dominions 5 is the same, you're in charge of gathering information as well as utilising it/protecting it.
>Even games like XCOM have an added layer of depth by use of the grid system
Yeah JRPGs have never used those repeatedly nope
I've tried to clear FF IV so many times in different platforms and dropped it every time. For some reason the only one I managed to clear was the NDS remake. I thought Zeromus was actually impossible when I fought him for the first time.
>in game genres that i personally like, it's cool that you gain depth by facing unknowns, gathering info, and slowly learning how to defeat the enemy more easily!
>meanwhile in stupid JRPGs, there's no depth, because you're just facing unknowns, gathering info, and slowly learning to defeat the enemy more easily!
I don't get it at all, user. Could you explain this to me so that even a retard could understand?
NOOOOO IT DOESN'T COUNT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
And if you had read what I was saying my critique was of the combat style posted in the OP picture. You're just restating what I said, which you would have realised if you had read the words directly after your quote. However as I said, that's only a move towards actual strategy and tactics.
Because the mechanical nature of the system is incredibly limited. Like the other guy, you're using a dichotomy and ignoring half of what I'm saying, or weirdly bringing up random genres to attack.
I just don't get it is all! I'm surprised that you're complaining about "player knowledge = victory" in JRPGs while arguing that the exact same thing in XCOM makes that the better game, especially completely ignoring the fact that you can very realistically lose XCOM no matter how well you play purely on brainless dice rolls, making it more of a game of luck than any JRPG probably ever will be.
Your arguments boil down to "JRPGs aren't tactical" and then you get proven wrong and claim those don't count.
Because XCOM has a large amount of positioning. Which gives it an added layer of depth. Like I said. The best you'll get in FFX style is a braindead row system (mages back fighters front). The only information you're dealing with is a few susceptabilities to statuses and elements, as well as probably resistance to 2 different damage types. None of which adds that much tactics to the game because it's generally fucking obvious.
I should have expected brainlet arguments when arguing with fans of a brainlet genre but what exactly proved me wrong? Someone saying grid based movement adds a layer of tactical depth directly after I said it myself? Someone saying shmups aren't tactical or strategic when that has nothing to do with anything?
The fact that are tons of jrpgs which do EXACTLY what you claim jrpgs don't do and ignore them.
>It will always be the Rick and Morty of genres.
I'm sure this sounded really smart in your head, but it is actually seriously stupid.
>or else you've added action elements to give some actual gameplay.
Are you seriously implying that most enemy encounters in action games aren't more simple and shallow than your typical JRPG? LMAO
>The games are all mathematically determinable. There's no skill involved.
This is true for any single player game, it's far from exclusive to JRPGs. Again, action games are just as brain dead. It's only when you are playing with other players or against other players that true skill is introduced.
I have said twice now that my critique is of the FFX turn based system as the OP contains an image of that game. Elaborate on what you're bitching about because it better not be that because that would mean you've spent 3 posts bitching about something I explicitly stated the opposite of. And as I have said twice as well, tile systems add an element of tactical depth but it's not a dichotomy so they're still not the most tactically deep system because it isn't a dichotomy.
>This is true for any single player game, it's far from exclusive to JRPGs.
Yes but other games have other factors at play at the same time such as timing and positioning.
>The games are all mathematically determinable. There's no skill involved.
The most frustrating thing about JRPG discussions on Yea Forums is that, yes, JRPGs are easy games. It doesn't take a great deal of intelligence or hard problem-solving especially since you can always grind more. But, the level of absolute retardation demonstrated by fucks like you is simply mind-boggling. It's like you are trying as hard as possible to prove to everyone that you are dumber than the dumbest fucking JRPG fan there has ever been. I mean seriously. Do you even think about what you post before you post it?
Do you know what an RNG is? Do you realize how hard it is for anyone to 'mathematically determine' the outcome in a game that relies on random numbers? Some JRPGs speedrunners actually do RNG manipulation, and trust me not you or anyone in this thread is actually going to play the game that way. So what does that mean?
>Skinner box games for brainlets who think they're being big brained for casting the fire spell on the enemy weak to fire.
>t. Dunning-Kruger champion
>Yes but other games have other factors at play at the same time such as timing and positioning.
Uh even FFX has timing too with the turn order and positioning WHICH IS DISPLAYED IN THE OP SCREENSHOT god how can you be this fucking retarded?
What is RNG?
holy jesus fuck you are dumb
>I have said twice now that my critique is of the FFX turn based system as the OP contains an image of that game.
Backtracking much? Your original post doesn't mention FFX once, where as it does talk about JRPGs as a whole. In fact, "JRPG" is the first fucking word in your post. Get your shit together user.
>Yes but other games have other factors at play at the same time such as timing and positioning.
Yes, and so do plenty of JRPGs despite your delusions to the contrary. Including FFX in fact.
>Some JRPGs speedrunners actually do RNG manipulation
That has nothing to do with anything I am talking about.
FFX literally has a turn order that can be manipulated, shitloads of subsystems, a focus on swapping characters out to make the best use of your party based on what you're fighting, and a frankly autismal equipment system. Is it always challenging? No, but there's definitely some boss battles in it that can fuck you over, even main story ones that are required to progress. There's also a shit ton of other stuff to do in FFX that is non-combat gameplay (exploration, entire dungeons that are puzzles only with no combat, etc). You literally don't even know about the game that you're focusing on, stop posting.
Hence me elaborating on it before you even started bitching at me for it. Yes the further you move away from that braindead system and the more options you give the player the more tactical depth is added. I admit that, you got me, I finally admit that for the fourth time.
Playing Super Nep RPG. After that I'm gonna play Octopath Traveler. Turn based games are the best for chilling out after a rough day with a nice beer.
It's miracle how GUST managed to make an MC that appeals to everyone this time.
>Using Kimahri
>Ever
How are there no fun turn-based RPGs to just randomly pick up on Steam? You'd think lazy indiefags would be developing turn-based games out the ass.
He's pretty damn strong if you build him right. He had the most strength out of any of my characters for most of the game, and had damn good agility too, plus Mug to steal stuff while he attacks.
pc mustards don't play anything other than western indie garbage or whatever multiplayer trash tencent and blizzard shit out for them.
>enjoy SMT4 kicking my ass for as long as I can
>get set up with being able to cast Megidola on MC
>enjoy the rest of the game but random encounters are almost never the same...
Sigh.
Combat system is my favorite along with cold steel
>only play the most popular and therefore casualized entries in a genre
>"haha you faggots you expect me to play some weirdo cult classic?"
Based and retard pilled.
>Either you have perfect information and you can make the correct choice, or you have imperfect information and are relying on blind luck
You're aware this is true of almost every other genre, right? Take the most action and reflexes driven game possible, toss a new player in and show him new enemies. See how he reacts to their attacks.
Now take somebody who has beaten the game and try it again. Oh, that's weird, he knows all the tells.
play lisa the painful
i don't like rikku that much so i just get kimahri into her sphere grid asap so he can deal with robot enemies via using steal on them.
Wakka >>> Tidus > Yuna > Rikku > Auron > Lulu > Power gap > Kimahri
t. someone who had the patience to press X a gorrillion times to platinum the game
Great characters and combat system. Definitely get it.
Currently playing Brain Lord on the SNES, it's a pretty decent action RPGs with incredibly long dungeons; and tales of Eternia. After I finish these two I'm gonna play Symphonia and Disgaea 3. This will be my first time playing Symphonia Chronicles, which from my understanding is based on the PS2 version of the game, with content that was cut from the GC version.
It isn't content that was cut from the GC version, but rather content that was added to the PS2 version.
>why did he just stand there and let the other guy hit him?
>because it was his turn
>that's stupid
A conversation between me when I was 7 and my brother playing FFVII
I just made it back to the sand temple myself. Last time I had this game I made it past the dungeon right after this one. Word of advice, if you have friends that are moving away, like whole States away from you, make sure all your shit is still there before they leave. I thought I had trust worthy friends, I was wrong and they took some Dreamcast games, my DS Lite, and a money order for my rent. Not sure what they thought they were gonna do with it.
Wasn't sure which version came out first. thanks.
You were wise beyond your years. Turns are retarded and have no place in modern games.
yeah it's way better in FFXV where you literally change back and forth between holding dodge and holding attack with no other actions.
it was merely an abstraction
not loli enough.
Did you not read the OP?
>SRPG gridbased faggots no need apply.
>remastered FFX
I keep trying to forget it exists but you niggers keep posting images from it to discuss FFX.
It is not how the game looks, alright? You get it?
Some clueless guy will look at this and notice how the UI and the portraits are sharp while everything in on PS2 graphics and think "wow that sure doesn't look very good, i guess FFX looks like some chinese crap". Do you understand now?
The worst is how they savagely butchered the original OST. God I hope the devs of the remasters choke on their own incompetence.
And people keep posting images remastered characters with their chinese bootleg faces trying to discuss FFX like it's normal. That's how the game will be remembered.
I tend to agree about the standard JRPG formula being braindead, but there are some good ones out there.
It's not turn-based, but Zanki Zero is surprisingly fun. I was worried it was going to be irredeemably shit judging by negative reviews, but after taking better look, looks like they fucked over themselves by playing on easiest difficulty which cuts 90% of features, also for some reason they expected a VN instead of dungeon crawler.
>GAME: "hey if you play on easy the game will be extremely basic and boring"
>TARDS: "hm i will play on easy, wow this is basic and boring time to write a review"
just another reason to never trust anyone's experience but your own.
I feel the same way about NeiR: Automata. It's a bloody amazing game, but you absolutely have to play it on Hard/Very Hard in order for the oppressive atmosphere and sense of desperation the game is going for to be reflected through the gameplay.
I'm about to drop Wild Arms 3 because I can't find this faggot wandering shop anywhere and I need a shit ton of status curing items. Jet is 2 levels behind everyone because he keeps fucking dying in boss fights.
still my favorite JRPG. Nothing else has even come close
>love jrpgs
>can't play them because I am a wage cuck now
>at best can only get 1 hour a day of gameplay on anygame
>one jrpg will take me over a month
it looks better, get over yourself
play handheld on commute and breaks
They play games on easy to get it over eith quicker. It's like they don't even try to have fun playing vidya.
Finally some good taste on Yea Forums. I prefer Covenant but the first SH had an amazing atmosphere
Grandia 2. Fuck that battle system caused the erection.
Covenent has the better gameplay but 1 has the better atmosphere. All in all I like both just about evenly. Heck even tho it's clearly not as good as the first 3 games I even like ftnw. A shame the prequel game staring Yuri's dad got scrapped
How the fuck has no one ITT mentione Mana Khemia? Literally THE best turn-based battle system ever made.
Octopath Traveler
>SRPG gridbased faggots
but those are turned based, more so than final fantasys outside X and shit
>doesn't know you could turn atb off in most ff games making it turn based again
I played the one on the PSP. I thought it was really dull.
Last couple that I played were Persona 5 and Dragon Quest XI. Both were amazing 10/10.
Now I'm on Octopath Traveler and it's just...ugh. I don't understand why it's praised so much, it's like, 7/10 at best. The writing is bad, the ui is bland and annoying, and there is too much tedious shit, like characters not in your party not leveling up, or having to swap characters at the tavern instead of whenever you want. This game can still be fun, but it's clearly flawed and starting to wear me out.
Your shit-tier taste is your own to deal with pleb.
>on the PSP.
found your problem. Don't be dumb and play on PS2
Play Mystic Ark
Some of my favorites include the M&L series, the Mother series, Lisa and the few FF games I've played
4 hours into FFX and I'm not sure how to build my characters along the grid system (expert), I don't want to fuck up and go down the wrong path and then not be able to clear some hurdles, how should I be building my party?
No, I think there was a developer interview a year or two ago and in there it was pretty clearly stated, that there is no interest in bringing the game to new platforms. The Gamecube version is considered to be the definitive one, so there's no need to remake or port it.
May be a bit sad, but on the other hand I also think it's kinda cool when a developer states that he don't see any reason to cash in more with a game, because she already released the game the way she wanted it to release and moved on.
doesn't really matter until you grind dark aeons iirc
Aren't they basically indie? stuff like Divinity OS/OS2, Pathfinder Kingmaker, I think there's another one which copied FFT like Fel Seal which was pretty decent. You also have stuff like mechanicus or whatever that turn based WH game is called.
HoMM series while TBS and stuff like that are also one of my favorites so it's not like the west is devoid of turn based type games.
normally follow the same-ish route they would go for the normal, and make sure somebody who isn't Yuna learns haste and slow
List some good RPGs where I can play or control a character which resembles a Beastmaster, or somekind of Ranger/Animal Handler
Pokemon Ranger is fun.
Jade Cocoon
>Your Final Fantasy
Not anymore
You'll find that magic is mostly pointless as most spells are in item form which costs no mp or sp also not mulled by delta shield. Theres a colour chart somewhere, since it was in the manual, and it increases damage done and taken. Purple beats red but red also beats purple so be careful in the red moon regions.
Is an RTS fine?
One of them is finally at Lv.50, others at 41. Still on it.