Do people really think he's op?

Do people really think he's op?

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It's not him being OP as much as him being uncompetitive that people argue about

He sucks but he is still bullshit, kinda like Zelda

Yes since 99% of Smashfags are bad at the game. His aerials are way too slow for him to be viable.

Not really. There are some tards on twitter but most other places for discussion recognize his major weaknesses. The random crits are kind of dumb though. Yea Forums just saw a couple hot takes from the site that impedes brain function and ran with it.

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The Abillity to instant KO and Crit just look unfun.

Plus, as someone who knows nothing about Dragon Quest. His moveset looks boring as hell. Its just pre-established Smash moves and effects slapped onto him. I swear about half of smash plays the same.

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It’s not so much that he “is” OP inherently but he’s so luck dependent that when the stars align and he gets lots of crits and lucky with his down B spells it feels really fucking cheap and stuff. If RNG gods bless him he is the most powerful character in the game, and yes some people say “well that’s true for Mr Game and Watch too” but G&W can only get a 9 with his hammer, imagine if EVERY attack he threw out has the possibility of being a 9

He's too random. He's a zoner that you need to keep pressure on but be careful he can literally explode at any moment and kill you at %30 if you get reasonably close to him.

Plus Game and Watch has to hit you with an awkward hitbox since the Hammer hitbox is only for the hammer itself. Even then. Game and Watch is one of the lighter characters, his 1 hammer puts damage onto him. 2 does nothing and 4 and 5 don't really do much.

This really just does feel like feature creep.

G&W also dies to a light breeze.

He doesn’t stand a chance against us IkeChads. Just rush him and he can rarely use his dumb menu, UP special so you can’t be interrupted why you beat this twink’s ass.

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The spells are totally fine by me but the crits are just not satisfying after the novelty wears off. I'm pretty casual and I could already feel the energy draining from the room when I or one of my friends would win with a crit the other day.

When you explain it like that, he doesn't sound like much of a problem at all.

Hocus Pocus still looks like total bullshit. The abillity to randomly get bigger or get a star man just isn't the same level of cheese as striking a 9 with G&W.

There is too many variables. You see someone using Judgement and you know at best they're setting themselves up for getting punished and at worse you're getting launched. With the spells you have to keep track of what spells they're brining up. distracting you from focusing on the actual fighting and then if they pick something like that huge area of effect spell which takes up usually half the damn stage, you gotta play campy.

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It’s literally more likely to get a negative effect from hocus pocus than a positive one. It’s like a 1% chance for a star, and a 40% chance for some negative effect.
If the player wants to take those odds then so be it.

You don't seem to understand the issue. It's not a matter of how likely it is, if anything it being rare is even worse because it's even more inconsistent. The problem here is consistency. How strong Hero is one match to the next is hugely dependent on RNG, way more so than any other character. It's also the fact that all the mechanics exist in tandem.

Trust me. If Judgement was able to get half of the effects Hero could get. It would instantly make him more viable.

I killed an Ike at center stage with a uncharged forward smash crit

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It's what Yea Forums deserves for autistically screeching and whining about the idea of DQ being represented in Smash for 6+ months.

If he’s that inconsistent he’ll never be an actual threat in the meta. At most he will be a gimmick character top players throw out just to shake things up.

How to counter Ike players.

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Good Thwack/Whack RNG pretty much makes him mid-tier at the absolute worst as it wont be too hard to setup for the OHKO chance.

Can’t it be reflected?

He relies too much on luck to be competitive.

He's more dumb than OP. Fun dumb for now. It's a reminder that Smash isn't meticulously crafted for 1v1 and is generally pretty jank.

yes, the instakills can be reflected

youtu.be/WCdhKLtXWSY
RNG is big booty BS. His specials all do Ganon-tier levels of damage and they're all projectiles. And to top it all off, he doesn't have many downsides.
>b-but his attacks slow!
No he isn't. Most of his normals come out just as, if not faster than Captain Falcon's, a rushdown character.
He's not broken or OP by any means, he's just a stupid character to play against.

Fully charged side b has got to be one of the most absurd moves in all of smash
Robin's Thoron looks like a joke in comparison.

Critical should just add more precentage, not knockback. And insta kill moves should work only when opponent has +100%, and have very low change happening.

Real talk, what the fuck is Ridley supposed to do against Hero? They either spam fairs/nairs without approaching or camp with menu. Any and all of his disjoints hit me without visually making contact.

I just wanna use him online.

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It's just retarded smash players being crybaby faggots about randomness, you know how much autistic people hate when things are too different

I bet they cry just as hard at characters like soul edge and owlcadan who randomly ape other movesets too

>muh RNG
Even without the epic down B menu, hits crits and fire/thunder specials are fucking stupid. Dude has no weaknesses.

You still aren't getting the point. He doesn't have to be a consistent threat to ruin tournaments or even just a night of friends having fun. You are actually insanely dense. It sucks to lose the finals of a tournament because the Hero you are playing got the 1 percent chance to get a star. It sucks to lose to your friend because you were a stock down the entire match because he got lucky with thwack at the start. These things do not have to happen every game to be annoying and ruin things like tournaments. I don't understand how you don't get this idea. Understand, it's not about him being "over powered" or an "actual threat int eh meta" it's about people who aren't good getting to randomly ruin every tenth game by being granted a win based on luck.

F

i absolutely give no shit whatsowever about the competitive scene and i'm a faggy online warrior because i have no friends in real life but here's my shitty take :
Yes he's OP because his Side, Up and Neutral specials all have the power of a fucking nuke; Neutral being portative and Side being charged very quickly on top of getting super armor.

I don't dislike Down B, i think it's fun and balanced; but fuck the other 3 specials.

The crit mechanic however is bullshit for a character that already can deal an astronomic amount of damages and isn't THAT slow. They better turn his blade attacks into Marth-tier and only give the crit' a tipper tier of damages.

it takes a very special kind of retard to lose with this character.

Bait out spells so they run out of MP, predict what they're going to do because most Hero players when not using their menu are pretty predictable, a lot of them keep using their aerials even though they're predictable as fuck.
Really it's his spells you have to be wary of, pretty sure Ridley ftilt and dtilt are fast and long enough to punish any whiffed normal attacks he throws out, and if you get them offstage or in the air there's not much they can do because Ridley uair fair and nair are all either disjointed or intangible so if they happen to clash with his aerials they can challenge his pretty well

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Ridley is a dragon, it's an auto-loss

here's the thing, user : they never run out of MP.

a Hero that isn't completely braindead isn't going to spam all the costy spells when he's in disadvantage; and this shit auto-fills. Edgegarding him is a nightmare because a tiny lag spike can send you into his bullshit tornado and make you kiss the stage. Ridley's so big that there's no way he'd escape that thing.

>Dude has no weaknesses.
All his A attacks are fucking shit.

In all seriousness is this just the usual new character OPOPOP whining we get for every game or is Hero legit op for comp?

>hehehe im gonna jump in the air and rush him cause he's trapped in his dumb menu
>wait oh nonono
>please sakurai save me
>NOOOOO HE ZAPPED ME
>he's in the menu again
>oh shit h-he's fast now
>HE'S RUSHING ME NOW FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK NIGGER FUCK FUCK OWWWWWWWWW
>FUCCCCCKKKKKK
>Elite Smash cancelled

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Not really. His super gimmick down-B power only works if you give him space and don't interrupt him.

So don't give him space and interrupt him. If he's in the air, chase him so he can't do a quick-select. If he opens his menu off a cliff, footstool him.

This goes for smash attacks, as well. He gets to smash only if you don't chase him, then he can just fish for crits. If you eliminate those two things, he's just like fighting a regular swordie character.

Now in DOUBLES? That's where he's probably the most broken because if he gets someone to distract while he fishes for Thwacks and whacks, that's when people should be worried.

He has gimmicky RNG shit that can kill sub 50. Not just one more, like say Little Mac KO punch, but MULTIPLE moves that can do this.
He isn't OP, but he is bullshit.

He isn't legit for comp [BECAUSE] he's OP.
There was one or two mini tournaments for him and everything that happens on screen is bullshit bananas. His damage output is more or less what would happen if you gave Warlock-Punch properties to Robin's Thoron.

This image is shit, his hand should've been higher.

d tilt and up tilt are both very good

Oh yeah not saying it's a matchup in Ridley's favor or anything ridiculous, just that it's doable. And lagspike not withstanding, unless a Hero gets a lucky Zoom you should be able to edgeguard him

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and i forgot to add : The motherfucker is HEAVY. He's not super-ultra-mega fast, but he doesn't die until ridiculous amount of percents. At 170% he can still take a K-Rool Up-throw like it's nothing.

So is he banned from Competitive?

Zero was showing that it's easy to get down B's if you stop caring about what you get. Just select the top two, ignoring kamikazees. It's fast enough that the opponent is unlikely to interrupt you.

the only choice that takes long to reach is the third one, since you have to press a direction twice. You can press up and get the last option. If you play to get random effects and only ignore magic burst and hocus pocus, then you're playing a buff type character. Once people start recognizing oomph quicker then Hero will be op

I think he's fun and hitting the first spell that comes out of down-B is a good tactic.

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>Zero was showing that it's easy to get down B's if you stop caring about what you get.
The solution in this case is to just let them do it because there's an equal amount of harmful and positive effects.

That's seems like a pretty shitty strategy in a real match. At that point you might as well just use G&W and spam down throw into Side B.

They person playing Hero in your situation took the chance and was awarded for it. It's risk vs reward because Hero is overall underwhelming.

He's not op, it's just not fun to kill or be killed by twack or wack.

>because Hero is overall underwhelming.
I actually can't believe how stupid you are

Actually let me ommend that
Random crits are kind of op

There is zero point to using the move like that, so many useless spells that will just leave you in end lag for nothing.

Smashfags are inarticulate, so let me help them out.

He's not OP, but he is poorly designed. RNG should not be part of a character's design unless it's reactable. People often bring up Faust as a point of comparison, but there's nothing Faust can throw out that isn't visible before it has its effect. Most important, Faust is the point of origin for his projectiles. You don't have to take your eyes off the action to read a menu over your opponent's character portrait to try and anticipate their next move. You just have to do the same thing you've been doing for the entire match. The fact that he can randomly completely fuck your recovery with Magic Burst or randomly kill you with a read at 0% isn't fair and feels bad to lose against.

>B-But Luigi! Game and Watch! Peach!

Peache's randomness is akin to Faust's, if she just randomly threw out an item without having to pick it up and hold it first, it would be exactly as bullshit. Otherwise, you can react to it.

Luigi's randomness is annoying, but doesn't win stocks by itself and is limited to one move with only two outcomes so if you're worried about the worst-case scenario, it's very easy to avoid it.

G&W is only tolerated because the character is considered shit, and is in fact even worse than Hero because he can actually true combo into his random kill move from very early percents. People only tolerate him because he's considered a bad character. If he ever starts making waves in tournaments people will complain about him as well.

It's pointless to talk about tiers for this character because just the simple act of fighting him is unfun. I don't particularly care about retards here fighting retards online that are bad at the game and would suck/get destroyed by rushdown on ANY character.

>RNG should not be part of a character's design unless it's reactable
that's your opinion

Yes. They banned him permanently too regardless of patching. Because of his critical hits being unfair.

CREEPER

What this user said, but it's also worth noting that baring fireball and the offchance they commit to kamikazee, hero's spells don't do much shield damage, so i've found it handy to close in with shield and beat them in the air to air since they're so damn slow and react to hatchet man. Plus dthrow to uair or bair is so nice to have from 80-90%.

He's a bit overtuned damage/launchwise. Otherwise, he's just alright. Also, Ridley is kinda fun now, hope he gets more patches when Banjo or 4.1 comes out.

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I just think his casting times need to be a little slower. There's wind up for Hadouken and Fox laser. There should be windup for snooze and the sizzle line.

That's fucking lame
Why are compfags so boring?

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And that's not a very good argument.

maybe sakurai shouldn't put rng bullshit, like tripping in brawl.

He's not banned they are meming. Nobody is seriously considering banning him.

>The abillity to randomly get bigger or get a star man
Isn't the percentage for that like 0.8%?

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>B---but he only has 1 out of 8 chances to Crit you, user! Isn't it the same as G&W's Judge?

if fucking pisses me off everytime brings that up. Nobody in their right mind are going to go for the Hammer when the opponent is at very high percents because any Smash attack at this point would do the trick.

This character just has it enabled on ALL his Smash attacks. "1 out of 8" becomes way less of a chance and way more of a certainty as the match goes on. Add to that how moves like "Oomph" and "Psych Up" can turn your sword into a portative Shield-Breaker ; combined to Side/Neutral B that will tear your shield to shreds (if it didn't stun you first) and you got yourself a bullshit character.

>tfw utilt->uair and dthrow->uair(DI dependent) are true combos that kill around 80-90% on most of the cast now

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>critical hits
This is the only issue I have with Hero. Everything else is fine and people should stop whining.

I'm not arguing, just calling you wrong. :)

>play Sheik
>get free wins on Hero

Playing captain falcon and ken against him is cancer. You just have no chance if he is decently competent

>enemy far away
>THWACK
>HACHET MAN
>SNOOZE
>BOUNCE
Might as well just use Kafrizzle.

Feels good knowing my boy beats him.

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hammer is also slow as balls. thwack is super fast and covers a huge area, i'm not even gonna talk about Magic Burst.

He doesnt. You just played against bad ones.

He's not OP, just not fun to play against. Random elements always suck in PVP, it's why no one likes playing items seriously, but now theres randomness that can't be avoided. Luigis misfire was irritating enough, but at least there was some risk to it, if you don't land the hit, you can screw yourself over. The positives of the misfire outweigh the negatives for sure, but at least it's something. You can't argue that it's enjoyable to lose a stock you otherwise wouldn't have to a critical hit or a lucky spell.

Luigi's missfire almost never comes out, too.

He does though. Hero loses to anyone that rushes him down. Also his frame data is absolute dogshit.

Hero should be able to take crits from the opponent too, just make it completely like a jrpg

PROSTITUTES AGGRAVATED

youtu.be/3edoLwcBcxc

He's not OP, smashfags just don't know how to adapt to RNG that goes beyond "maybe Peach pulls a stitch or bob-omb or G&W gets a 9," you can literally just run up and kick his ass because of his shitty frame data

Also post more Erdrick 'You Retard' memes, I love them

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I'm pretty sure it's 1/10 chance or something, and if you're like me you use it fairly frequently. I can say for certain I have won my fair share of matches I wouldn't have otherwise because of a lucky break. As cathartic as it is to get a lucky misfire, I couldn't argue that it was fair or fun to be on the receiving end. Random elements like that are fine in party matches I feel, there's no reason they couldn't disable it in 1v1 no items or something like that. Same goes for Hero.

The rat will always make me laugh

I love playing Hero simply because it forces people in quick play to stop doing hyper defensive, passive aggressive bullshit, or they get punished for it.
Being able to break shields has never felt so satisfying.

>instakills you at 30%
nothing personnel....retard....

Literally and factually untrue. Stop spreading misinformation.

This. Fucking people in QP do nothing but play purely defensive. One round I said fuck it and decided to not lead with the attack. Ended up with both of us doing fuck all.

Hero seems like one of those problems that might take care of itself.

>if he's not amazing, he's not worth using because of the reliance on jank and RNG when you could just use a consistent character
>if he is pretty good, he essentially gets soft-banned because players still don't want to play such a jank character (you could argue that people will play to win at any costs, but if that was 100% the case everyone would be playing Snake and Olimar right now)

Of course, now that I said this he will be top tier and destroy Ultimate.

snake pretty much rapes hero

How do I deal with lucina's that go so far off stage to gimp me? Lost 10 times with hero becuase they went off stage I even tried to mix it up but she just waitied for me to hold my up B to hit me :(

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It's rosterfaggotry (I don't like Dragon Quest and wanted another character) combined with the character forcing wi-fi warriors to play more aggressively.

Hero's recovery is garbage as is his aerial frame data nothing you can do but down B and pray for Zoom

Lmao get fucked snakefag.

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that snake fucking sucks

>tfw you run into one of those faggots that does nothing but run up, and spam out of shield options for the entire match.
>tfw you slow the match down, fuck up their timing, and completely destroy them

It feels so good to completely dominate these shield abusing try hards.

All snakes fucking suck.

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>Also his frame data is absolute dogshit.
Literally better than Falcon's. What are you talking about, nigger?

falcon sucks in this game

His frame data and combo game is bad enough that he's not going to be top tier no matter what

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Isn't it sad this describes 75% of the Ultimate cast?

his up air is so bad, it looks really fuckin cool when you get a kill with it though

this
fuck those dumbass critical hits

You don't have hero do you?
Try beating his spirit board as hero and come back.
I doubt you get any use out of your down B.
The people having trouble are projectile spamming campers who don't know how to approach, jump or shield.
Why are you watching him cycle through spells and THEN reacting?
Also hocus pocus more often than not kills hero with effects including but not limited to: death, sleep, slow mo, and freezing.

9 is more deadly but crit has a better low effect than judge.
At least if crit doesn't trigger you get fair damage where as judge hammer can completely fizzle at low numbers.

Only nerf he needs is that crit adjustment you mentioned.

Are you kidding?
Fireballs if he's camping/to make an approach and shield/U-smash/U-tilt for airials.
I main ridley and that fuck doesn't get to pick a single spell with down-B.
Foward tilt has a lot of reach too, use it to your advantage.
Shorthop nair for easy damage while evading.

This only applies to smelly tourny fags.
He's fun with friends.

>Accept Hero got in over my pick, but liked DQ VIII anyway so it was cool
>Hoes Mad and the stupid fucking Gohan memes from Yea Forums start getting shat out every which way all the fucking time
>Can barely mention that you wanted someone else without a high probability of the above getting shoved in your face
It gets old

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It's really hard to put a yay or nay on a 3 day old character, and honestly I don't think he's broken but that's just cuz I'm bad at him. I played him once in tourney against a very strong player in our local scene (wins top 3 consistently) and he just wiped the floor with my hero. Still, if someone puts the hours into him and actually don't feel clunky like I do with him, he could be a strong mid-high tier where I think he belongs. He's just not top tier.

Whack.

i'm not gonna lie that the last crit was sorta bullshit but that sonic is fucking shit so it doesn't matter

He's not OP, but he's jank as fuck.

Based

I want Leffen to get cheesed out of pools at a tournament with Hero. Seeing Leffen get pissed is my favorite thing ever.

That Sonic is ass, but dealing 50 damage with a single attack and killing at 0 is stupid.

Why do Smash players always have to make excuses for bad balance and game design by puffing up their chest and saying "yeah but that guy SUCKS so it's fine that he died to RNG"

What are you trying to prove?

>I'm pretty casual and I could already feel the energy draining from the room when I or one of my friends would win with a crit the other day.
Funny, the exact opposite has been happening in my friend group, and we play at near comp level (one of us is actually sponsored). Whacks, Thwacks, and crits had us all laughing and having a blast.

Yeah, I'm definitely not a fan of the crits.

If you think Sonic is ass, all that Hero did was stand still use Snooze and then Fsmash twice to take two stocks.
The thing about balancing is that you shouldn't have to be competent in order to defeat an opponent who is complete ass.

Toying with the spells has been great, it's just the crits that take the wind out of our sails.

the only reason why 4channel thinks anyone is OP is because they play shitty characters like krool and ridley and get upset when their weaknesses are used against them

The reason why 4channel thinks anyone is OP is because they play a party game and think it's a competitive fighter.

While I am not saying he will be top tier, Snake isn't exactly the head honcho of having good frame data and combo games. There's more to it than strictly those things. I think a Hero has a good chance of getting far in tournament if he grinds out a few important aspects of refinement. His largest impediment right now is actually his recovery-- so getting really good at checking for zoom will go a long way over the duration of sets. People just don't do it yet. People aren't sure at what best works with accelerate either (which by the way he can combo people at mid % to blastzone with it. There's footage of GFs where the Hero nair fair fairs someone all the way to the blastzone and they are in hitstun).

What frame are they?

>watching replays
>hero I fought went to use kamikaze
>noticed that if you're within the blast radius, your character actually looks terrified

This has been the case since Brawl though-- there are characters who have had options which are infinitely harder to play against and thus the onus is on the player to significantly outplay his opponent. Hell, that's the whole argument against wobbling in Melee.

Don't forget
>a lot of Herofags clearly don't actually play the game enough to know how other characters work yet they keep trying to conflate Hero's RNG with others' (Luigi/Peach/Game and Watch) anyway
>always try to cop out after losing arguments with "it's a party game anyway its not meant to be competitive", which is retarded to pull when that should mean that discussions on balance shouldn't concern them anyway, and is also willfully ignorant of how post-Brawl Smash has tried (emphasis on TRIED) to keep competitive play in mind as well until now
I'm also noticing how frequently the critical strike mechanic conveniently gets "forgotten" in the discourse, and Herofags sometimes try to frame the negative feedback about RNG as if it's exclusively about his spells.

In 1v1s, the spells aren't nearly as useful. Crits can be irksome if you lose because of them, but his smashes are pretty mediocre otherwise, so it's hard to be mad on the very, very rare occasion that it happens.The way we have been looking at it, expect all smashes to be crits, and you will think he's strong. Then when a smash doesn't crit, you just laugh that Hero got unlucky.

>Its a casual party game, It'll never be competitive!
>Is still played competitively
What narrow world do you live in

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why the fuck is it the hero's fault in this case? sure all he did was stand, but the sonic clearly could've taken advantage of it, instead he jumps off the fucking stage like a retard

>all that Hero did was stand still use Snooze and then Fsmash twice to take two stocks.
Never happened. Even a critical smash can't kill at 0. Or even 30% for that matter. And just IMAGINE actually letting snooze hit you.

>says this as it's the spotlight game at EVO being played right now

Nothing wrong with crits. If you get hit by a Smash attack you deserve to have your life left up to the whims of what the game decides.

You agreed to fight a hero
You agreed to have critical hits appear at random.

Crits are insanity, they give him the potential to literally kill from 0% with just a regular move. If the crits only dealt increased damage it would be fine because it would still provide a distinct advantage and the player would still have to earn the kill. The same with his neutral B, it is far too strong for how easy it is to pull off, though the projectile is a little slow and could be fine by making it a bit slower.
Aside from that he really should be buffed if anything. His regular smash attacks are a bit weak without crits. Down B is honestly not that big an issue, it's slow and unlikely to actually bring up something useful to your current situation, and is one of the parts of his kit that takes skill to execute.

Why would you lie like that?

I do not agree.

No, honestly with frame data like that he is an awful character carried by his gimmicks. Give it a month and everyone will be saying he's bottom tier trash when they're use to his magic and learn to abuse his shit frame data. I still believe he should be banned competitively since having RNG on every smash attack makes the game uncompetitive to a level that Peach and Game & Watch could never reach with their RNG attacks. But he's still a shit character.

>they give him the potential to literally kill from 0% with just a regular move
100% lies, but keep going.

>Even a critical smash can't kill at 0.

It literally happens in the fucking webm you dumb nigger.

There is. It's called opening the menu.

Im so happy, and now that Side-b is somewhat worth committing, and an deadly out of shield option with Usmash Ridley's finally starting to fit feel like he's got the power to back up his size. Only thing I'd ask for at this point is some intangibility on D-smash.

You don't have a case to disagree.
Your words are air.

This. If you get hit by his mediocre smash that seen a mile away, you deserve to get fucked.

>I still believe he should be banned competitively since having RNG on every smash attack makes the game uncompetitive
Go fix a fucking dick

He had oomph on, retard, lol no wonder you're so bad at this game.

>they give him the potential to literally kill from 0% with just a regular move
From Smash attacks that are insanely punishable

It's way too early to say if he's OP or if the RNG is too much. It's day 4, Hero hasn't had any competitive play in any majors with high-tier players, nor any notable or skilled players picking him up and grinding him out save for Nairo, Samsora on the top of my head. Even then most players were/are grinding for EVO to even give him the light of day. ESAM hasn't even updated his personal system yet.

I have fought as and against many Heroes, and his down B isn't a threat as people may say. Yeah, magic burst is scary and BS when you're offstage. When you're onstage it's kinda useless unless you are in a full commitment like in animation or endlag. Kamikazee is only a threat when Hero is a stock up, and if you're hit on the ground its techable (probably an oversight but I'll take it).

Then you have his projectiles that come out in the same trajectory, his physicals which have an arc, and his buffs which any smart Hero will prioritize because easy pressure/shield breaks.

Then you have crits which I think are cute, but too strong. 1.5X is insane whereas shulk smash is less than that. OOMPH is also 1.5X where as buster is 1.2X. Then if you add those two plus psyche up then that shit its a bit too much. If I don't see reductions on these stats in a coming patch I'll be very surprised

SideB shouldn't be killing at 45%, and neither nB at 90%. I know they cost MP and that's the trade off for almost all of Hero's strong abilities, but MP is kinda free. You get 90% MP for each percent of damage you deal as well as 1MP/s. Either reduce his damage output, making those buff magics actually useful, or increase MP usage, or reduce MP recovery.

Again this is day 4 and so are my thoughts, so I want to see if I still hold this true a month from now. But overall I can't share my sympathy with other players getting fucked or lucked by Heroes. I'm too used to BS in Smash and in Mahvel to be fased. If I'm thwacked then so be it. Even down two stocks, I'll fight to the bitter end.

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He didn't, you can't see the aura. He had rage and that's it.

I don't know how Smash can be so popular yet have so many people who don't play it or pay attention to what's going on commenting on it. You guys are even more casual than I thought.

>RNG on every smash attack makes the game uncompetitive
It really doesnt, retard.
A fully charged Smash critical requires a hard read of someone idiotically walking into your line of fire and waiting for it and THEN the RNG deciding.

Competitively nobody will be hit by it unless they were put to sleep or had their shield broken.

If you're aware Hero has that in his arsenal you formulate your playstyle to evade that tool/option he has.

If he destroys the meta, then he deserves a ban, but he's too sloppy and unreliable to even be used competitively. He's a fun casual character who might have flukes in tourneys if the opponent is retarded and jumps RIGHT into his attack like Sonic over here.

pretty sure fagsora said hes staying a peach main

Didn't read

Does anybody else wish they had a few more options in terms of costumes? I'm not complaining about what we have already, Solo is the fucking shit, but I really would've loved if each slot was a Hero from a different installment
>Eleven
>Roto/Erdrick/etc.
>Solo
>Rek (Six)
>One
>Two (even though he doesn't have magic it's a nice design)
>Nine (Maybe? his default design is alright)
>Eight
I like Madason but he's not technically a Hero per se, also him without the staff would look weird

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Naw he said he's giving him a month, but yeah he said that hero isn't replacing peach. Sam is looking for a co-main.

Kills any character at zero if they are standing on the ledge

>see Hero about to smash
>"let's fucking jump at him and try to kick him"
He deserved it.

>Even down two stocks, I'll fight to the bitter end.
I may not agree with all you say but i like you for not being a bitch and fighting even when odds are total ass. You're the type of person who makes games exciting to play.

Well, I just fundamentally disagree with your statement. If you get hit with a powerful attack in a fighting game (this is the part you >) you should be punished with damage and possible death sure, but it is not really satisfying to either player for the exact punishment to be left to the game's devices.

You know downsmash can crit too right? And thats the same move as roys down smash

This, Sonic has a shitton of counterplay options on top of his mobility and he shouldve aimed for the ledge, TWICE.
Didnt learn.
Those who dont learn fail.

Press F to pay respects

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S, the only good thing he's done is co reveal captain falcon

And I like you for admitting that you may not 100% agree with me, and not acting like a monkey on a typewritter.

Also there's no better feeling coming back with a W after being down so much. It's what makes fighting games so good. Better than crack. And even if Iose, I still get more experience to better myself for the next game.

>Roll Bounce
>Invalidates 90% of his kit
Heh, nothin personnel

His specials do too much fucking damage and down B is downright unreactable. Hell, many Heros don't bother looking at it because it's pretty much always some 30% projectile, sleep or instant death flying out at light speed. People think his lack of typical swordguy speed and combos mean something, but no, all he needs is a few hits then any B button will do. It's bullshit.

Fighting Hero with Bounce as Isabelle is similarly borderline impossible.
Slingshot? Reflected
Lloid mine? Useless
Pocket? You can grab stuff but it won't even work as a threat
Even the fishing rod of all things just bounces off. It reflects a command grab, because fuck Isabelle, that's why.

>Doesnt read
I literally said "Hit by a Smash attack"
Hitting someone with a long windup attack is always satisfying, especially after reading them.
Both players know the sword will critical hit
Both players are aware of its ability to kill via critical
They know these things and agree to fight on the condition that this is possible
The only situations where it actually works is on braindead opponents who get hit by trying to counter attack

Killing someone at low/0 percent requires 3 factors of positioning, time and RNG, all of which are lenient

Are you going to complain about spikes and offscreen throws now?

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>If you're aware Hero has that in his arsenal you formulate your playstyle to evade that tool/option he has.

Do you not understand the concept of a read? And that disproportionately rewarding one character for doing what every other character is encouraged to do isn't particularly fair or balanced? It also doesn't have to be fully charged. So you try not to get randomly hit by a smash attack in neutral? No fucking shit, that's good advice against any character. Hero players aren't pre-programmed to just spam smash attacks all day. That's not what this is about. It's about a character in a medium weight class with disjointed hitboxes being able to randomly kill you in situations where they otherwise wouldn't without RNG. Your defense of Hero's design is entirely predicated on "just don't get hit bro" when Smash is a 2 player game and good players will make use of that Smash attack whenever it is safe and will reap free stocks because RNG handed it to them just because.

This also goes for his spell roulette. Forget obvious shit like rolling bounce against Mega Man or a Belmont. How about moment-to-moment rolls like finding Bounce in an edge guard scenario where you can invalidate the recovery options of over half the cast and they just have to sit there and take it?

Good
Lets not forget that bounce is also random and you need to let him breath to even activate it.

>You agreed to fight a hero
When? You're kinda at the whims of matchmaking there.

>Lets not forget that bounce is also random and you need to let him breath to even activate it.

Or lose a stock.

Or get knocked off stage.

Or get knocked back at least half the stage.

Do you know how common a moment to breath is in Smash?

Pic?

That sonic would have even died to pacman assuming he didn't self destruct.
I could have spiked him for a 0% kill with ganon or falcon since he can't grab a ledge.

It's a shit example you're calling out.

>That sonic would have even died to pacman assuming he didn't self destruct

What are you even trying to say here? That Pac-man's fsmash is that strong? Because it's not.

>Fair/Balanced
This isnt an argument
Smash is an asymmetrical game, nobody is balanced or fair, theyre just objects with characteristics and options/tools
>Encouraged to do
Youre encouraged to make your opponent hit a blast zone. Thats the only rule of Smash, friendo. Some characters Smash attacks are borderline useless like Snakes FSm or Lucas USm.

>weightclass
>otherwise wouldn't
I'm sorry, we're talking about the recently released HERO, are we not? You seem to be obsessed with him fitting some kind of "Ideal character" when he's supposed to be his own concept/mechanism within a game.
Maybe you have an ideal vision of how a Smash character "Should play" but this character is BASED around these tools, trying to shove him in a weight class or playstyle only makes you look like a genre/classtard. Hero is a "fighter" in "Smash" thats all. He has tools that are great, he has tools that suck, he has tools that are random. It just so happens that a lot of his move's effects are apparently RANDOM.

He still requires execution, neutral play and an opponent who will push him to his limit.

*Magic Burst in an edge guard etc

Hes not OP, hes actually pretty meh. He just has a lot of dumb moves

>Choose to get Switch Online
>Choose to play Smash
>Waah I'm being left to the whims of nintendos matchmaking wah
Shut the fuck up child, you agreed to this.

All of those are situations where he has been given an advantage. Your point is?

>"Just don't play the game lmao"
What kind of logic is that, you're basically saying it's ok that a character is unbalanced, because you chose to play the game he is in?
Never get into game design please.

>reveal captain falcon
Your a mongoloid retard if you thought he was getting cut

This is completely autistic semantics and I'm not wasting my time on retards/bait anymore. Apply yourself.

>they're just objects with characteristics and options/tools
Go away capcom
youtu.be/WRHi9oyMXqE

The logic is that you cant complain if you agree to put yourself in the scenario in which you will have to battle a hero.

If you disagree with hero then fucking SD or isolate yourself from those who use and enjoy the character.

>unbalanced
You fuckholes love throwing this around like it means anything.
Smash isnt balanced.
The world isnt balanced
Get the fuck out of here with that unrealistic entitlement.

Ok, by that same logic you can't complain about people complaining about him on this board because you put yourself in a situation where you have to deal with them.
So feel free to leave anytime.

>characteristics
Look, Feel, Emotional Connection, Personality, Sound, Design, Animation
>options
What they can do, how they can counterattack other options and tools, how they move

What else can a character be? Fuck off.

I'm not complaining, I'm literally telling you all to your faces that you're incorrect and your entitlement is ridiculous.

You can choose not to listen to me and live in your own world while rejecting reality, be my guest, retard.

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it's been my main for 6 years. there's no way i'm giving up on them. I'm just hoping (needlessly) that he's ever going to get some light coming his way. Considering how he's been overpowered by Hero in terms of magic damage output; there's no reason to keep him as the slowest swordfighting character in the game..

>Has good aerials, is deterministic with his magic consumption and effects
Robin is still a viable alternative if you want a fighter over a roulette

By your logic, you can't complain about anything ever. kys retard

>"just don't get hit lol"
>"you agreed to ___ lol"
You and anyone who thinks this is an argument is a fucking moron.

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>Robin
>Viable
OHNONONONNO

He was my main in 4 but in Ultimate I can't do it with Inklings running circles around him

I'm saying the usefulness of crit in a real challenge can't be properly assessed by a cherry picked clip of a bot/esl sonic killing himself.
I could have killed him with with a fully charged smash or a warlock punch, or a 9, or luigi missile that close to the blast zone.

>magic burst
>not OP

Have fun trying to recover bros

None of those would have killed at 0. Feel free to prove me wrong.

yeh his shitty speed is pretty unprecedented when he already has to be the only character in the game with ammo he can run out of..

Are you saying it's tough beating the spirit board with hero? Cause I did it with hero only and the only one that I had to retry was the last one.

Where the fuck have you been? G&W is high tier in this game.

What's his name again?

Last one is more what I was thinking.
It's doable but you don't get to stand around one shotting enemies with down-B

Sonic put himself into that situation

Name one character who stands a chance against Hero, if Hero were to be played at a top level. You cannot.

Robin mains, does Hero actually make Robin obsolete?

The crit stuff is complete fucking bullshit. It's been pretty frustrating to play Ganondorf for the sweet, sweet power of hitting like a truck at the expense of some borderline crippling drawbacks, only to run into a character that can produce even more kill power randomly while having all the advantages of another boilerplate weebshit swordsman with a lot of the samey, quick moves.

At least with G&W you also stand just as good a chance to hit a 1 as a 9, functionally adding the possibility of not only a critical success, but a critical failure.

I think Hero has the same powercreep problem that Joker has. The SOMETIMES DO MORE DAMAGE LMAO mechanic, whether it's built over time and damage with Joker, or random, discrete attacks from Hero, they both really raise their damage on average over time and they don't have limiting factors that adequately counter this fact.

not a competitive video game, it's a party game

hero feels so dirty to play because once you get rushed down his normals are so slow the only thing you can really rely on in that situation is the jank specials

dont know why people complain about commands when kazap is insane. kills at like 50 at the ledge for a move that charges up that fast. ive had it kill at like 70 going across the stage. vertical hitbox isnt as lethal but it's way too damn big. what the fuck is this move.

That fucking hamster is based as fuck

both yes and no.
Yes because he does use the gimmick of Magic-on-multiple levels; and because it proves Sakurai could have made a way better job at conveying what the character is all about (we still have fuckin' Chrom in our FS for fuck's sake) and that also means he wont get any love, being pushed backstage.

But then; Robin still has a lot of cool tools to kill and so far i've been able to kill every hero i fought. But once experience catches up to what we already had time to practice, he's going to be obsolete 100%..

>Pin the tail on the donkey is not competitive
lol find me a party game that's not competitive

After playing a lot of games against him, I just think his dash attack and zap spells are too strong. The first kills too easily even if it's slow, and his spells can't be reflected. Kazap has super armor for whatever reason. Imagine if Pikachu had the same thing.

Only shitters

I would have loved to see Morgan replace Chrom. But I guess that's too much to ask. Also why take away the levin sword at the start?

>rng moves with no risk only reward
>marth and ike aerials with a falcon spike
>suicide bomb option(just incase you were losing)
>insane and straightforward recovery that is also an attack
>can throw and explosion that sucks you in, kills at 85 and travels faster than thoron
>can throw a 30% fire bolt thats pretty much instant
>hocus pocus actual has risk but on the rewsrds is giant which pretty much an auto win
>respawn to magic burst cant be stopped and covers the whole stage
>oomph and psych up are common
>Full fireball is the biggest and most powerful charge projectile in the game(yes bigger and stronger than 999% aura sphere)
>fully charged lighting attack is huge, goes all around including understage and is more powerful than warlock punch as well as coming out faster and if you miss input it you can cancel it into a 20% zap
Hes the ultimate shitter character of course bad players are going to defend him and say hes not that good. It was the same with ganondorf

charged Kazap also has armor

I'm pretty sure I've reflected his shit as mewtwo.

>Nair spammer
>Chad
Play a character that requires more than two braincells while I have fun parrying everything you throw out

>don't complain, don't take action, just sit there and take it like a bitch and stop being so entitled
not everyone is a pushover beta like you user

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Levin sword is still technically better than hero's aerials, but hero basically has better speed, better overall killing power, better hitboxes, more reliable magic, and doesn't have an ammo counter on his good moves.
So pretty much.

In the Zap family, only the start of Kazap can be reflected.

>quick moves

Why the fuck did Sakurai give him random crits? “To be like his source games” is a retarded reason, Pokémon and fire emblem have random crits in their games but they don’t have the ability to randomly kill you at 50%.

Because it would be "Too powerful".
Same shitty reasoning as to why Nosferatu still instakills Robin if performed in the air; while a lot of characters with aerial-grabs (Incineroar, Wario, Mewtwo, Dedede) can still move afterwards. Those who don't, usually AT LEAST suicide with the character (Bowser/Ganon/Ridley).

We just get to suck 10% and then die for no reason.

I think Sakurai just hates us; and i don't think Hero's appearence is going to make matters any easier for us. They already nerfed Robin's book damages & knockback on top of making its hit detection near inexistant.

makes me sad. I spent autistic amount of times on that character; and it never got any better.

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I mean just because he wants to reference crits in DQ doesn't mean he has to reference crits in all franchises that have crits. But either way, FE characters have crits for their final smash

>9 is more deadly but crit has a better low effect than judge

You're a fucking idiot. How the fuck does a single move attack with a 1 in 9 chance to land a OHKO compare to a mechanic which can let ANY attack have the same level of knockback and damage for little to no drawback?

Everyone who complains about hero on Yea Forums have not played with or against Hero and think shuffling through garbage to find twitter opinions from tourneyfags and meleeautists as an appeal to authority is enough to justify days after days of EPIC SHITPOSTING!!!

The first 2 days were pretty shitty, I admit. With the new jank being discovered about Hero, you couldn't silence the shitposters for a second, but now the dust is already settling and the shitposters are already losing steam. Nothing absolutely ludicrous has actually happened with Hero aside from the same 4-5 clips of shit players falling for bullshit and dying to RNG and you can see it by the fact that it's the same webms being reposted again and again. The more people adjust to the matchup, the less do the same "NERF HERO WAAAH" arguments have credibility. It's actually pretty easy to dismiss anti-hero crybabies.

You fags keep reposting that shit Snake webm as if it meant anything, but you won't post replays of absolutely terrible Heto matchups like trying to beat a good Pit with Hero. Pit having his entire kit being a response to everything Hero is good at. Nooooo, because posting such things would put you in hot water immediately because you can't admit some specific characters shit all over Hero.

Hero nerf shitposting is rosterfaggotry in disguise anyways. 90% of Smash threads are started by attention whores who don't play the game.

G&W is tolreated because his design is as a glass cannon. He can do a shit ton of damage but can get bodied easy.

>Use Fireballs
>Ridley's worse move

he's unfun to play against. You know at any given moment, a small mistake that would usually cost you some percentage, means the entire match.

At least you can now grab the ledge after sucking life. At this point they may as well make levin stay on 100% of the time for this character to have any chance.

I have more fun fighting him than fucking Joker, honestly. Fuck Joker.

the biggest problem is that he has so many moves you cant possible play around all of them

that is a dream that i cannot dare to imagine.
it would be beautiful.
So beautiful that it's never gonna happen in a million years.

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if we are judging designs alone. 2 6 9 and 10 would have been ideal.

have fun getting killed at 0% faggot
i'm not standing for this shit and i'll wait for nerfs & buffs until they make him into a playable character and not a Baby's First Robin.

official smash fun club
discord.gg/KdhvjcB

>pretending down b is the real problem when both side b and neutral b require less charge time than samus' charge shot and deal way more damage
the only problem with down b is magic burst

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give ridley angles

>it's another "random gameplay elements in a series that's always had random gameplay elements exist, but people still act surprised when the party game plays like a party game anyway" episode

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it's been what i was complaining about the whole time. Down B is fair because it forces you to either go random or read a bit of text, taking your attention away from the fight itself; it forces you to move if you're misplaced and shuffle again. It's the only fucking balanced move in his entire pool of specials.

Meanwhile you get launchable Falcon-punches and nobody bats an eye

>Have fun getting killed at 0%
There it is, that argument again. I kept saying all you can respond with is recycling the same scrub comments again and again and you go ahead and recycle one right now.
>killed at 0%
Never fucking happened to me unless I fucking deserved it. Snake has the best keepaway tools against Hero and your biggest chance is finding pockets of space to shuffle menu for bounce, which is not nearly as common as you need it to be. That Snake was shit and trapped himself in the corner and didn't pay attention to his stacked buffs. He deserved that situation and you obviously know NOTHING about the game because you clearly don't play it.
Also let me repeat again:
Pit
shits
ALL
over
Hero.

Stop pretending, retard. You don't play the game, rosterfaggot.

nice reddit spacing
cuck
based and redpilled

Don't forget Thoron in the air. As if it's even a good kill move.

They're complete nonsense as well considering no other RPG character in the game gets crits yet Hero is given them for no logical reason.

Yeah I'll give hero props in that he made Joker palatable, at least arsene only lasts 30 seconds at a time. He may be able to get him back quickly but you can body him when he's without it. Hero is annoying the whole time

>bUt He HaS bAd FrAmE dAtA

Don't ever believe these lies. Hero still has disjoints and his frame data is literally Captain Falcon tier i.e. not remotely bad at all.

This, Hero has some of the fastest and largest hitboxes in the game. He's high reward and little risk

The difference here is Hero requires effort to play and is not a noob friendly character.
Joker is good right out of the box even if you suck at the game and requires minimal effort for his combos.
He is extremelly fast, can kill you stupid early and has got to be the heaviest 110 pound Japanese teenager I've ever seen. Also Joker is easy to learn and worth investing time into if you need a good pocket high tier or just a good main in general.

Hero is NOT easy to play and nobody talks about it. Scrubs and kiddies who pick Hero get bodied in 10 seconds flat. Spammers can get annoying with the full charge fireballs...until they waste alL their MP because they suck and everytime I have had problems against a Hero is by playing Hero myself or playing Hero in the upper 5mil range with my main.
I find Hero fun, I want to learn him, but hecrequires lots of commitment and risk taking. The RNG is just the reward for taking the risk of being in your opponent's face.
Only times I've ever landed hatchet man is when the player fucking air dodged into it.

no one is reading your wall of shit fag!

You did, don't pretend you didn't.
tl;dr shitpost reply is WEAK SHIT.

Ganondorf kills people at 30% with random forward smashes, what the fuck are you complaining about? Git gud

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i have over 1000hours on Smash 4 WiiU, 300+ on 3DS, et now above 800+ on Ultimate. You're not gonna teach me how to play the fucking game when i've been playing one of the shittiest characters in the game for six fucking years.
>B-But i shit all over Hero
yeah of course you fucking Multi-hit-whore; None of the characters with five billion hits on their aerials and 2 different reflects (counting one that breaks fucking shields) is gonna struggle against this little bitch , and i don't either. I only met one hero player so far that kicked my ass and it could have ARGUABLY been my fault for getting hit by a Neutral B.

You're gonna tell me that it's normal for THORON , a move that takes TWO ENTIRE FUCKING SECONDS to charge, eats through an entire fucking tome in two uses; Is objectively weaker than a stupid move that takes half a second to fully charge and can be stored even when you don't have the ressources necessary; comes out Super fast and kills you at 30%!?

Fuck off, you don't know shit about how abherrently stupid these specials are. I don't give a shit that i havent lost to him a lot - all it takes is one fucking mistake and your stock is gone; when that bitch can do several of them and go on scottfree.

nice coping
cuckold

You fags literally said Joker was a mid tier after a week of saying he was overpowered, and then he ended up being top 5 in the game. Sit your ass down boi, or I'll go and fuck your ass with my BBC.

Reality is unbalanced because it isn't a video game, which can be balanced if the developers care to do so.

noob

My only wish was that this cutie got in, sucks.

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lucina raped by hero hentai manga when

Snake has amazing frame data and combo game dude, half the reason he’s amazing is the frame data on his dash and grenades and the other half is his easy kill setups out of a throw. Good frame data doesn’t just mean fast A buttons.

I love getting one/two-word responses from people. It's like they're literally letting me win the argument.

Robin doesn’t have a single resource for all his options is the tradeoff, and arcfire is a decent combo setup. But like the other guy said complaining a new guy isn’t weaker than Robin is eh, Robin kind of sucks.

He's high tier minimim. Cope, shitters.

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