>“Last sale, I made over $2,000,” the developer wrote. “This one I’ve barely made $200. Thank you.”
>Developers are chalking this up not just to wishlist issues, but also changes in the way Steam recommends games, as well as changes to the structure of the sale itself. Nepenthe and To The Dark Tower developer Yitz pointed to Steam’s data on his games, which showed that the “vast majority” of his store page traffic came from outside Steam, as opposed to from built-in recommendation systems like the front page, the discovery queue, tags, and games’ “more like this” sections. Data from the first half of 2018, meanwhile, shows less than 20 percent of his traffic coming from external sites, while over half came from within Steam. This, Yitz says, has been an issue since October 2018, when a Steam algorithm bug caused big games to make big gains in traffic while small games lost out. While Valve said in December that the issue had been fixed and the flow of traffic re-normalized, some developers say their games never recovered. Yitz is in this camp.
>“Before October 2018 (and for a few months after that while I gave Steam the benefit of the doubt), I told anyone who asked me that Steam was 100% worth it for indie developers,” he said in a Twitter DM. “Now, that trust is gone, and it’s not because I’ve changed or become more cynical... This Steam sale was a disaster, but I’m far more concerned about the overall trend we’ve seen in the Steam algorithm since October last year: pushing unpopular (including ‘mostly negative’ reviewed) triple-A games over titles that Steam has more than enough data to know would be a better match for the consumer.”
>game developers blame Steam for their own failings Yeah, what else is new?
Aaron Long
My game sold great.
Samuel Hall
defend what? they experimented with a new type of event and it didn't work should the consumer be upset that developers aren't making money during community events?
why are you people so beholden to corporate profits that have 0 impact on your life?
What it boils down to is to not make shitty low effort garbage. That's why more indieshit is going to Epic since they don't even need to try to make a good game.
Aiden Carter
It was pretty weird that the sale didn't encourage the use of the discover queue at all this year. Seriously, though, I miss flash sales.
Kayden James
Waaah, why won't Steam give me free marketing anymore? Why should I have to work to sell my game? I'm so opressed.
>shit dev of a shit game complains it doesn't sell and blames Stean lol
Samuel King
>he posted it again When do the fucking mods consider this shit spam?
Jordan Ross
Cry more Steam drone
Zachary Jackson
STOP SPAMMING THIS GARBAGE FUCK
Levi Rogers
I know someone who was one of the extra 5000 winners and picked a game he didn't really want that much probably because he didn't even really understand the contest and he hasn't even played it. Meanwhile I am still mad I picked a game I actually wanted and didn't win.
Parker Russell
>alt-right player games Ummm sweetie, it’s the current year, of course nobody wants to support toxic gaming culture
Samuel Foster
It's been quite a while since he posted this. Hey chinko, WWZ threads and pics when?
Chase Reed
>this made at least $2200 Why the fuck aren’t I making games?
Easton Reyes
>spamming same shitty irrelevant thread for weeks >farming clicks for cucktaku >phoneposting >reddit spacing
Jose Perez
Maybe after your delusions of Epic being a valid option instead of a chink botnet who can only stay relevant through moneyhatting becomes reality, Epicdrone zoomer.
"inspired" meaning "copied the surface elements like epic wacky humour and memey dialogue and expecting it to catapult into relevancy"
Lucas Kelly
Not even crying, just angry at retarded drones like you who keep spamming this shit just to be contrarian.
Brandon Fisher
Says the Steam drone
Jason Green
Are the developers aware that Steam has hundreds of more games on it every single year? What magical recommender algorithm do they think exists that can just alleviate that issue without any effort on the developer's or publisher's part? Even people selling on Amazon need to invest heavily in outside advertising. This is how shit works for large online stores.
Carter Ramirez
Says the actual drone who can't even come up with a better response to someone calling out your blatant spamming than "cry more".
Henry Thompson
That sale was total shit for new game discovery
Evan Johnson
what was it?
Brandon Sullivan
Says the guy whose only argument is chiiiiink chink Winnie the Pooh xD
Gabriel Baker
He doesn't know English user, he's got to stick to his script.
Luis Thomas
>reeeeeee people didn't buy my shitty game during the sale!
Tyler Sullivan
>it's steam's fault that the vast majority of his store page traffic came from a vietnamese spike shitting forum
I'm convinced the biggest problem with Steam is the "small dev" problem.
If I ran Steam:
1. Fix the Shovelware problem - this would help the smallest devs because it would get rid of the utter dogshit and give anything half-decent more attention.
2. Then put all your focus on improving marketing/discover of shit with decent production values and AA/AAA which people actually want to play - ignore the whiny tiny indie devs.
Carson Moore
>undertale ripoff but if it was drawn by a 6 year old gee I wonder why it didn't do so good in sales
I, personally, don't give a fuck about devs. I get the game, I play the game, and thats it.
Dominic Carter
Again, what magical recommender algorithm do you think should exist that already doesn't? Every Steam feature worked as intended during the sale. They're also about to release brand new features via Steam Labs, though I doubt it'll stop the complaints from lazy devs who just don't grasp how advertising works.
Luis Davis
Says the first person even mentioning poohposting in this entire reply chain.
Adam Parker
Based dictator
Bentley Cooper
Steam sees themselves as just offering downloads and payment processing.
The problem Steam's 30% cut is ridiculous if all they are offering devs is payment processing and downloading.
Levi Gomez
Steam actually copied Epic and put only decent games on the front page. The devs complaining have no chance of getting on EGS due to low quality.
John Jones
>dad-jokes ahah funny puns! Please upvote.
Alexander Watson
indieshitter mad that majority of people filter this kind of shit from their discovery queue
Henry King
>sell shit for dirt-cheap for years >surprised that no more people are buying your shit later on I already got HUNDREDS of games on my Library. I bet most I've not even touched yet. Plus, most of modern shit is just that : shit. All in all, I spent literally 0 cents this year, simply because nothing interested me.
Kevin Morgan
How about showing truly random games on the front page during a fucking sale?
Valve instead advertised big name franchises like Assy Creed and Resident Evil
Because no one likes those games, most games on Steam are shit.
Angel Roberts
The problem is that it's now incredibly hard for decent low-budget titles to stand out from Steam's piles of low-effort shovelware babby's first game.
Adrian Cooper
That's not all they're offering though. Discovery queues, tag system, related games, curator system, follow / activity system, broadcasts... plus an interactive recommender, automated program, and micro trailer coming out soon.
The issue is the quantity of games coming out. Relying on Steam's systems alone isn't enough. Developers are competing with TENS OF THOUSANDS of other games. If you just hit enter in the store search and then filter to games only it shows 34857 games. Developers need to get a better grip on marketing if they want exposure.
Lincoln Sullivan
That’s Valves fault because they used to curate
Gabriel Walker
Again that’s Valves fault
Carson Williams
If I was a AAA dev, I'd be pissed off at Steam for doing so little marketing for high-budget products customers actually want rather than Indie Early Access Garbage #232323
It's a bit like going to the cinema and find they give equal prominence to someone who made a movie at home for $500 and a $200m blockbuster. Have some fucking standards
Jason Garcia
The devs that are complaining about low sales? If Steam curated, they wouldn't make the cut. Maybe RE2 and Ass Creed are generic but I guarantee they're more enjoyable than Vulpine or whatever trash these guys are trying to sell.
Aiden Richardson
>It's a bit like going to the cinema and find they give equal prominence to someone who made a movie at home for $500 and a $200m blockbuster. Have some fucking standards
Valve already did that when they stopped curating the fucking store
Asher White
the thread should have ended right here indie devs have become entitled pieces of shit
>hey look at me I made a shitty game can I be the next notch now? These people need to fuck off, if this game was on EGS or origin no one would buy it either, for some reason steam is supposed to be some kind of welfare state where you shit out a game and receive money
Jordan Carter
Kek, should have done Peep/Creme/Peanut Butter/Chocolate/Mini
Jackson Rodriguez
That’s like letting in immigrants and complaining when they want rights
Asher King
If Valve decided to curate their streams again, want to know what would happen? They would ban all these shit sub
Hunter Bell
Steam's role isn't to market your games, their role is to sell them, they're a store front not a marketing firm. You don't know jack shit about business. Someone like you would put your product on amazon and then cry about how jeff bezos doesn't market your product for you. Look at this way, AAA companies pay millions and millions to advertise their games right? Why on earth would steam or anyone do it for free?
They have no chance of getting this on EGS or Origin anyway, because those stores actually have standards.
Grayson Anderson
Getting onto Steam used to mean something. Valve instead turned the back catalog into the equivalent of digging for gold in piles of shit
Jonathan King
If that's a serious problem then devs would go the minecraft route and skip steam and go solo, or they would use discord or itch.io. They won't do this because having their game on steam is worth the 30% cut, this is how the market works.
Colton Hill
Who cares? I'm getting everything for free.
Evan Turner
They really need to have a team that plays every game and sees if it has basic production values.
472681663 472683954 >steamdrone is a wojakposter you can't make this shit up
Luke Brown
But Amazon is dogshit too. Amazon has prices and service but god the store is dreadful.
And Amazon is far, far better at giving prominence to stuff that isn't garbage. And Amazon's website fucking sucks.
Evan Rivera
Yeah this sale was done extremely poorly, whoever came up with the idea for the racing incentive to buy game is a fucking retard lol.
Leo Gonzalez
I don't think it's Steam drones that do. I think it was indies who originally did, because they thought it hurt their sales. Now Steam did away with their own curation methods and the same indies are still complaining. They'll never realize or admit that their games just suck and people would prefer to play other games.
Adam Clark
>They won't do this because having their game on steam is worth the 30% cut, this is how the market works.
Apparently not as more and more indies are going Epic exclusive, but Steam drones HATE that
Joseph Phillips
>epicdrone is an obvious redditor newfag who can't even quote other people's posts properly No surprise there
Jackson Ross
It’s Steam’s store and they fucked up their reputation to “own” the indies
Daniel Gutierrez
Who's going to do the curating? Valve already said if they did curation like people want games like VNs would never be on steam despite people having a great desire to buy and play VNs. Can you trust a group of people with tastes that aren't similar to yours to curate for you?
>linking directly to kotaku Stop bumping this, retards.
Kevin Bennett
Why are we having this shitty thread again?
Jacob Thompson
Because OP is a titanic faggot who decided that he didn't get banned hard enough.
Adam Williams
A first step would be Valve hiring someone for $10/hr that goes through the New list and remove anything that's obviously trash. I mean, that's far less than what MS/Sony do.
If they wanted to invest, they could get a small team to actually play the games to see if they work and are more than asset flips.
Ethan Turner
I fucking hate indie devs
Luis Williams
I'm not a indie game developer so I don't give a fuck
Juan Rivera
I don't disagree that those games are trash that no one would miss if they were removed from steam but you just know indie devs would complain that their dream game wasn't allowed on steam just like what happened here
Leo Morris
Why did they kill Greenlight again? Is steam now open for any and all "games"?
Nolan Watson
Here's some
- Make better games so people want to buy your shit. Also, no, we don't give a fuck about your age old "roguelikes" "metroidvanias" and "spiritual successors"
- Allow higher discounts in sales so people want to buy your shit. Your two years old shitty game will not sell sell if you refuse to go below -40%
- Stop blaming gamers for everything. Don't write retarded shit like "manbabies hate my game" on social media. Start looking in to the mirror. If you are being review bombed, you probably did something really fucking stupid with your game. Also, nobody wants to see your try hard pseudo-intellectual college writing, wannabe deep & progressive storylines or pretentious "innovation" (aka carbon copied mechanics & elements applied on games where they don't fit)
-It literally does not matter what your game is, all that matters is that you make a good fucking game and ADVERTISE it. NO ONE WILL BUY YOUR SHIT IF NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT IT YOU FUCKING INDIE RETARD IMBECILS GOD FUCKING DAMN IT. Either rely on social media, streamers or word of mouth
Also I can see how transparent your epic shilling is, faggot Even if you don't mention it, it's really fucking obvious.
>this copy/pasted thread again Wow shills are going all out today, huh?
Jayden Ross
It's much much worse than that, user. The faildevs bitching in that shitaku articles tried to sell "visual poetry"
Grayson Nguyen
we've had this thread before the games developed by that guy complaining are actual sewage indies that are capable of making actual good games aren't having any problems with Steam
This is the natural conclusion of Steam's policies that were driven by indie dev clamoring. Specifically, Steam Greenlight and Early Access. Both of these policies led to an overflow of indies onto the marketplace who came up with an idea, made a proof of concept that appealed to people, got voted onto Steam or even just allowed outright via Early Access, and then realized development is hard and quit. Now Steam is filled with trash games that aren't even finished on the indie tag, and because of that, customers are disinterested in the tag itself, leaning towards bigger games instead of risking an unknown game because it is a safer investment of their money and time. This creates a feedback loop on their recommendations that stays within AAA games, since it sees that as their taste, and so the indies dont get pushed. The only salvation for people like this now would be for Steam to manually sort through indie games, find ones of quality, then artificially push them to the people, but that won't happen because it will inevitably lead to taste conflict.
>"visual poetry" What the fuck does that even mean? "artistic" walking sims? Shitty VN's?
Jose Thomas
it means 'don't question my vision sweetie just buy my game you entitled loser'
Ethan Jenkins
>unapologetic megaman rip-off give me one reason why anyone would buy this instead of a megaman game? first look impressions are that of a chinese bootleg. Still, whether it's good or not is irrelevant if the game has no fucking exposure. Yea Forums isn't a good place for it
Jeremiah Rodriguez
>people who make garbage game want free promotion so its highly visible to people who don't want to pay for garbage games Maybe EGS is more your speed, they seem pretty keen on promoting shovelware considering that's the majority of the 50 games they have.
Henry Wilson
Okay I’m not normally one to put on my tin foil hat, but it can’t be coincidence that these types of articles keep getting made post epic store and shilled everywhere. Epic, who have established they are willing to pay any amount to force them to have a place in this industry.
I’m not crazy right? I don’t doubt this dev or others had a horrible sale, but come one. It’s too convenient.
Brayden Mitchell
>linking kotaku hello jason
Colton Ross
Jason couldn't browse Yea Forums, he'd be too scared of seeing big anime boobs.
Daniel Green
At least he's not a cum.brain
Tyler Baker
And Valve/Steam never paid for good press, right?
Jaxon Cruz
that's the thing that blows my mind it's like we see lots of games being discussed on Yea Forums and basically none of them are EGS exclusives, those games are actual garbage and they're displayed prominently
look at genesis alpha one, it's literally just some survival crafting shit but it was one of their first early access games
Henry Nguyen
Fuck Valve. They're all a bunch of amoral scum swines who need to die in a fire.
It's a miracle it made any money in the first place.
Luke Powell
this. quitting my job to become a gamedev wish me luck, boys
Gabriel Wright
It's the best example of how shit Steam is for indies now. I couldn't imagine games coming out on Steam in 2010 and selling only 300 copies.
Caleb Long
Problem is that you end up back at square one with lazy developers whining that their games got filtered and customers crying that games they want are not getting in.
Christian Scott
JUST
Chase Morales
If you make a game that has to compete with these for sales then it's the same kind of trash. And if it took you multiple years to get your game to that point then you seriously need to reconsider your life choices.
Jonathan Gonzalez
Because greenlight was just a matter of getting enough positive votes to get into the store and you could buy those from russian bot farms.
Connor Green
>It's the best example of how shit Steam is for indies now >Sold 300 and got hired at fucking Capcom as a result steamcommunity.com/games/818960/announcements/ Why is every example used by epic shills fucking wrong
Steams curation is shit though. By now it should know i like 3d platformers yet it keeps recommending me fps games. Nevermind spyro and crash are now there and i love those games but steam never bothered showing them to me
>Apparently not as more and more indies are going Epic exclusive, but Steam drones HATE that I mean, wouldn't you go Epic Exclusive if you knew Epic was going to give 200k sales by default?
It says less about Epic being viable as a competitor and more to say about indie devs only being in it for the money for the sake of earning money, not delivering a product that people enjoy.
Cameron Garcia
>this sale was so shit people are still complaining proud pigbro here, i didn't get shit for free and i'm still salty bros. thinking your game is going to sell 2000 units next year because it sold 2000 units the previous year is dumb, though. not unless you're very aggressively self-advertising your game on reddit and Yea Forums as a Hidden Gem. thanks Brigador dev, I literally never heard of this game but bought it and it's preddy okay.
Noah Sanchez
Did epic pay for this article like they paid for those exclusives?
just stopping by to shill jimmy and the pulsating mass, an "earthbound-inspired" (not actually inspired by it from dev's words, but he copied the art style because it as easier to make) rpg which does it right (except the art)
>It is always the devs with shitty looking games with next to no appeal whatsoever that complain no one buying their games
Reminds me of that guy who made Thomas was Scared or some shit like that, and how Steam fucked him over becaue his game wans't in evidence. His game is just a bunch of fucking cubes. Even after he bitche and I searched what was his game, and was totally underwhelmed, no one no one would buy that shit, it doesn't look like any effort was put into it at all.
It's hilarious, they call us entitled brats for choosing where to buy our game, yet they feel like they are entitled to our money, like it is our obligation to buy their fucking shitty games.
Liam Hernandez
THANKS FOR THIS REPOST I MISSED THE SAME COPY PASTA FOR THE LAST FIVE+ TIMES
Jayden Morales
No, they don't have to. As of 2019, game developers fucking hate steam. Only 6% of developers belive that steam deserve their cut.
I don't think steam care about it to be honest, they are aiming at hardware now. Once it will work for them they will abandon steam like they did with game development.
>It's hilarious, they call us entitled brats for choosing where to buy our games.
You are not choosing, you demand something and you can't stfu about it. Big diffrence
Angel Perez
How should I go about shilling my game here? Be upfront or go guerilla?
Asher Collins
Is this how kotaku gets their clicks? Or is epic paying them too?
Ian Hill
>Indies bitch >Valve hears them >They bitch more even though it's exactly what they asked for >Valve hears them again >They continuye to bitch
At this point they're literally just looking at Valve and Epic and getting pissed that Valve isn't shoveling money in their faces just because they made a game.
William Collins
Neat, put it on my wish list for now.
Luis Turner
Don't mind me I'm providing informative education about minerals and videogames
>indies who think they deserve good money for subpar crap like OP think they deserve more money. Wow, what a shocker.
Carson Lewis
>random members of the top three teams receiving the top game on their Steam wishlist for free at the end of each day. Valve didn’t do the best job of explaining how this worked, leading to a situation in which thousands of people deleted games from their Steam wishlists in hopes of upping the odds that they’d receive their preferred game when in reality, they would’ve received whatever game they put in the top spot on their wishlist no matter what.
lol. Stupid redditors.
Christian Smith
>you demand something and you can't stfu about it. >WHY IS NOBODY BUYING OUR GAMES ON EPIC, IT'S NOT FAIR :'(
