Well Yea Forums, which one is it for you?
>Dragon Quest: Generic fantasy games of a consistently high quality with likeable characters but predictable plots and solid combat mechanics
or
>Final Fantasy: A wild gamble of either creative / pretentious settings with memorable / annoying characters that take themselves too seriously and gameplay mechanics that change every game
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FF
DQ3 is the best JRPG all time and others are shit
FF5 and 6 are high quality JRPGs and others are shit
FF because when it's good it's a lot more memorable
Classic FF > Classic DQ
Modern DQ > Modern FF even if DQXI was a huge letdown for me
SaGa
What makes 3 so good? Like compared to dq4 or 5
DQ's math is sorely underrated.
>Dragon Quest
Although it may seem basic from an outsiders perspective, it genuinely has some of the best stories in vidya with unique elements. Often times time travel and dimension hopping is part of it. The only games that have generic stories are the ones like 8 that became popular in the west. Dragon Quest is literally the royalty of RPGs
>Final Fantasy
Started off as a complete and total rip off of Dragon Quest. Once they got to the 16 bit Era they started to shed thier influence with some unique scenarios of thier own and the ATB system. Really came into its own during the ps1 era due to massive success in the west and brining the RPG genre to the masses with its easy to access difficulty curve. Square got too full of themselves though and started to use Final Fantasy as a delivery device for graphic fidelity often times ignoring core gameplay mechanics in favor of flashy cinematic set pieces. Hasn't really had anything to do with gaming since the PS2 days, more of a tech demo with lazy writing.
Basically Dragon Quest is for people who enjoy video games themselves and Final Fantasy is for those who like cool looking CG movies.
If you had to compare them mathematically, FF games greatness range from 2 to 8 when pretty much all DQ are 5, making both series 5 on average, got it ? Ok now check me out FF average is 4 when DQ average is 7 :^)
2 and 6 had fairly generic stories as well.
FF started as a complete and total rip off of D&D, not DQ.
I forgot my picture
First for Jessica
I wouldn't say 6 is generic really. But 1 and 2 is, but that was super early days for RPGs on video game consoles.
Nope. You are wrong.
Wizardry influenced Dragon Quest which influenced Final Fantasy. Squaresoft copied Enix as a last ditch effort since it really was thier Final game if it flopped. What better way than to copy the hottest selling IP in Japan.
>1
Nah, that was pretty groundbreaking at the time.
>Rescuing the damsel is an optional sidequest.
>The main conflict is finding a way to cross one tile of water.
>Big boss battle is against a creature made to protect its people.
>Evil lord is like a used car salesman.
6 was pushing a gimmick that was already commonplace and recycling twists and turns from older games, it was really lackluster.
>as a last ditch effort since it really was thier Final game if it flopped.
This is a huge myth, the guy literally just wanted an English word beginning with F, so he could have the FF acronym.
DQ's latest entry is one of my favourites out of the whole series while FF keeps getting worse imo. I prefer a consistent good to great adventure to put dozens of hours into rather than hoping they pull out a miracle card.
>Squaresoft copied Enix
Motherfucker have you even played DQ1 and FF1?
>best stories
>time travel
>dimension hopping
Yuji Horii man. That nigga crazy. He wrote Chrono Trigger too.
I want to comfort Celes and make her smile.
I play multiple games, not locking myself into one enclosed box where I can only experience one type of thing.
Also, I'll play Grandia, Tactics Ogre, or Suikoden over either of your options.
No he didn't you idiot. He only did a story draft, Masato Kato (from Xenogears, Radical Dreamers and other stuff) wrote the script.
Yuji Horii is fucking terrible as a storyteller. DQ has generic story. Time travel and dimension hopping shit is also present in FF and it's much more unique.
DQ because it's consistent and knows what it is, FF fags most of the time only like one game or set of game (IE: the faggot that only like VII, the boomer that only likes IV and VI, etc) and I don't blame them because the games sometimes can be so different from each other the only they have in common is the word Final Fantasy in the title meanwhile DQ fags like all of them (except 2 and 7)
>Generic fantasy games
They're not.
Dragon Quest is nothing like skyrim or lord of the rings
I swear I'll get to SaGa Frontier one of these days. I've been a FF babby my whole life so SaGa sounds pretty damn interesting
This
I'd rather take the gamble, because even the FFs I don't like are better than the 'best' DQ, which at best are mediocre JRPGs.
They are two rival athlethes with different techniques in the same competition, and both of them trash the other partecipants.
My personal opinion is not even the rest of FF can top the seventh installment.
>DQ is consistently solid, with uniform artstyle, gameplay, music, character and monster designs
>FF is a total crapshoot in every aspect; especially in the last decade
If the next FF game were to be announced tommorow I'd struggle to care.
>DQ has a generic story
There you go again. Talking about shit you know nothing about.
Came here to post this.
Even though my favorite FF beats out my favorite DQ, Dragon Quest is much better overall. I regret playing every mainline Final Fantasy, I don't regret playing every mainline DQ.
Based and SaGapilled.
Most FF characters are pretty lighthearted though
Both because I'm not a poorfag pleb.
I love FF but I feel like the quality is so inconsistent and most games play differently or have a different set of rules. Where as DQ is like the comfort food of gaming for me.
Dragon Quest.
Final Fantasy games as of late rely too much on muh graphics and the writing can be pretentious as fuck.
FF XIII is a case in point as you don't even know what the fuck is going on for like the first 45% of the plot, and even then you need to be referring to an in game codex every few lines of dialogue.
I find that-- whilst DQ is way more generic than FF-- it uses the assumption of the player being familiar with the world to have way more fun with the plot and characters.
For example, Hendrik in DQ11 is a clichéd ultra-stern, valourous knight, but then at one point drops his persona and gets extremely giddy with excitement over a finding an extremely rare early edition of a porn magazine, before realising everyone is watching him and putting on the noble knight act again. It's only a little moment but it does a lot for his character, especially when you compare him to someone like Steiner in FF9 who plays the same stern knight from start to finish.
What an absolute trash opinion goddamn
DQ has the confidence to do what it wants to do. It's a game that takes it time to tell the stories it wants to tell and ask you to come along with the ride.
FF however feels so scared of it's own shadow that it tries to do everything it possibly can to distract you over and over again. Filling it with tons of mini games and side stuff hoping you will find something fun somewhere whether or not it's with the core game.
I like Dragon Quest because it isn't an inconsistent cyber punk garbage fest.
FF stopped being good when it stopped being a Dragon Quest clone.
Just for fun
FF1>DQ1
FF2 and DQ2 are both bullshit
FF3DQ4
FF5DQ6
FF7>DQ7
FF8DQ9
Even by the mid 90's FF quality was a coin toss.
Now it's more like the lottery odds.
FF XIV is great but they haven't put out a good single player FF since 9.
>FF however feels so scared of it's own shadow that it tries to do everything it possibly can to distract you over and over again.
This is a wonderful way to explain post-7 FF. 5 and 6 were stuffed with weird content because of a disorganized staff and an attempt to show off, 7 did a ton of weird shit as a sort of tour-de-force of 3D RPG possibilities, but after that the games started to become mortified by the prospect of not appealing to as many people as possible and not being able to brag about the sheer graphical fidelity and breadth of content. It got to the point where they're scared to even allow anything other than an early 20s supermodel into the cast as it might be "less appealing." The creative spark is mostly dead, and somehow spinoffs and a barely funded mmo are the last refuge of creativity in the franchise.
>ff7>dq7
You take that back. DQ7 was so much better than emo kid wants to kill his gay crush for penetrating his waifu.
>Cloud
>Emo
I love DQ7, but you didn't even play FF7.
>This is a wonderful way to explain post-7 FF
You mean post-2 FF.
Yeah, fuck FF XV.
>Magic is grenades now
>Towns are literally just stop off points
>All storytelling is relegated to films, anime and a fucking playscript for some reason
>Combat system is litearlly just attack and ocasionally dodge with a single character whilst the game handles the other three for you
>No buffing or anything needed
>Potions heal in %'s
FF, simply because it moved past the archaic turn based combat system. It'd be a tossup otherwise.
I like DQ, but the story is generic. Not even the developers themselves deny it. Every story follow the same formula and except VIII and XI, the characters are incredible bland due to being silent protagonists for the most part (including all party members), except the party chat that was only added to the remakes.
If they released a brand new game in each of these franchises tomorrow, I'd be much more excited to play Dragon Quest then I would be Final Fantasy.
Like seriously. 15 was such a hot mess they cancelled the DLC. Even the 7 remake looks like hot trash becauss the devs admitted they don't know what to do once they leave midgar. Dragon Quest will be good no matter what though because they are all built upon the skeleton of the "Heroes Journey". Yes it may be a bit generic and tropey, but only at the surface level. Hell even Dragon Quest Builders 2 has a pretty fucking fantastic story with a unexpected twist at the end.
Nah. 3 was just a mediocre DQ3 wannabe, 4 was trying to be "epic" in its storytelling, and I described the other 3. You didn't feel true fear until 7 exploded.
I actually did. I just wanted to rile up some (you)s
Honestly though. Ff7 has a weak story, but the presentation and pacing is pretty fantastic. It's almost like they took the momentum from Chrono Trigger and put it in that game. Well, it's better than FF6 at least.
>FF
>DQ
Neither megaten all the way
I don't think those things would inherently be bad if the game was allowed to have it's own identity instead of being a stripped down mess that only contains the parts executives thought mattered.
The most recent good DQ is on the PS4
The most recent good FF was on the PS1
The main reason why DQ fills me with hype is because the combat system is so solid and fun to play with.
In most DQ games, you don't really get pointless party members and there's always room for experimenting.
Even in the good FF games half the characters get benched because there's no point having them in the party. FF 7 and 8 are like the only exception and that's mostly because outside of limit breaks every character basically plays the same anyway.
>Every story follow the same formula and except VIII and XI
Not really. 1 is the Ultima to 7's Sorcerian. 4 and 5 have entirely different story structure from every other entry.
>the characters are incredible bland due to being silent protagonists for the most part (including all party members)
This is absolutely true for 1-6 and 9/10. I think your companions from 2 had juuuust enough for the scope of that game's writing, but that's just me.
>the characters are incredible bland due to being silent protagonists for the most part (including all party members)
Not even you believe that
>the presentation and pacing is pretty fantastic
Yeah, and that's the part that bugs me about the remake. 7's strongest aspects are its extreme simplicity (a fucking 4 year old could beat it), its brisk pace, its balance of drama and comedy, and the amazing cinematography. The way the camera is positioned at all times is superb. You could just clean up the CGs, make higher quality superdeformed models, and the game would be timeless.
Instead the remake is making fights more complex and long, stretching content out, and settling for bland default angles but elaborate cutscene. It's like they missed it on every level.
Again. Talking about shit you know nothing about.
>In most DQ games, you don't really get pointless party members
Big reason why 6 ducks, who the fuck remembers Nevan even exists?
Trust me breh. I'm pretty upset about the remake too. Sqeenix has no respect for thier Final Fantasy past.
Reminder that liking DQ doesn't make you a fine consumer because its literally Japan normie games.
Not saying FF is any better but at lest the games aren't afraid to take risks and experiment.
>I only played 8 and 11 because they are 3d with voice acting the post
Fuck outta here.
7 actually has some shitty camera angles (mostly birds eye view ones) that could be tinkered with, but yeah, a lot of the game is staged really well.
The problem with that is time issues. FF1 came a couple of months before DQ3. So it's not really a good comparison
Sure the structure differs a bit, but the overall story remains the same. A demon lord wants to destroy the world and the hero (which is usually the player) one way or another will beat him. And during your adventure you will visit different towns that have their own problems you have to solve.
The story is neither complex, nor will it ever have really surprising twists, but stays pretty predictable throughout.
Still lots of fun though.
Read some books, watch some movies, play some other games, then realize how shallow the characters are.
>Dragon Quest doesn't take any risks or experiment
>when they fucking invented most of the core mechanics games today use
>when every single new release pushes innovation and doubles down on things that make it great while adding new things still
>This is a wonderful way to explain post-7 FF
Dude I'm completely including FF7. Think about FF7 it's just a bunch of string together mini games. Nothing but mini games all the fucking time. As for plot it's pretty much a half ass Eva where at least Xenogear goes full on Eva with it's bullshit.
>dragon quest has usually all its side characters have massive side quests that go into why a person is the way they are, thier motivation to join you, seeds from thier past
I think it is you who should go play a Dragon Quest game. You keep talking about shit you don't know anything about.
>at lest the games aren't afraid to take risks and experiment.
Nigga DQ2 was the first big party jrpg. DQ3 invented the modern JRPG design doc. DQ4 was goddamn picaresque. DQ5 was a Greek tragedy on Super Famicom (it serves back into comedy at the end, but still). DQ7 is one of the biggest JRPGs ever, DQ8 STILL has some of the best use of 3D space in a JRPG (11 recently trumped it hard), and DQ10 is one of the only non-WoWclone MMOs still on the market.
The fuck are you talking about?
Based
>you're just uncultured i can't explain why they're bland but i'm more cultured than you so you're wrong
Your argument Fizzled before it even started
No I get you, but that was more of a "WOOOOAH 3D" thing than a fear of the brand losing sway thing. Everybody was doing that. Look at Mario, Zelda, Sonic, etc.
While DQ is the best series of RPGs Enix did (opinion depends on Valkyrie Profile), FF is certainly not Squaresoft's best series by a long shot.
>A demon lord wants to destroy the world and the hero (which is usually the player) one way or another will beat him. And during your adventure you will visit different towns that have their own problems you have to solve.
So you mean they're all epics, because that's the fucking Odyssey, except the world was just his family and Odysseus got a marathon of mobs instead of a normal final boss fight. The most basic building blocks are the same, yeah, but the stories vary wildly.
What I was getting at is Square take on FF was they hardly ever had a solid leg to stand on. They just fill it with so many other things. FF6 had you do a weird tactical segment with the moogles too. Never deep or well thought out just there hoping to get you to keep thinking of something else hoping all that shit will keep you wanting to play to see the next weird thing. But in the end it's just bunch of distractions.
I mean that's fair, but it was still a good game in spite of the sloppy design. Problem is they never got better, fired/lost a lit of talent, and shit got too expensive to quickly churn out.
DQ every fucking time because at least I know what I'm getting myself into. With FF it's like playing the fucking lottery. Also Horii loves to work and talk about DQ and it shows while FF feels like a cow being milked for all it's worth.
>they're scared to even allow anything other than an early 20s supermodel into the cast
FF9 is well known for Quina's ass and Steiner's rocking abs. Vivi's quads are out of this world and bitches love a tall guy like Zidane.
I feel bad for Nakamura. At least Chunsoft does well.
dragon quest has and always will be dog shit
Based and redpilled
Yeah.
That game's almost 20 years old, user. Last time we had a non human party member was 12 with Fran.
Does anyone know why Horii decided to stop using Chunsoft post DQ5?
You said post-FF7. You were wrong. You won't admit it.
>World with moogles, bangaa, and other weird races
>HERE'S A HUMAN GIRL WITH BUNNY TAIL AND EARS!
There's many reason why I hate FF12 and that's honestly one of them.
Probably money. Chunsoft refused to be absorbed and the series already had three other external ball and chains. May as well cut the guys stupid enough to trust the publisher.
You can really feel his absence, first a bit when he stepped down with 5, then heavily from 6 onward when he was completely uninvolved. Horii has less restraint.
>It got to the point where
Aka, "after being like this first some time." I was referring to the last decade to show how far their paranoia has come.
FF 1 > DQ except 6 > FF the rest > DQ6
The viera are based. Suck it pleb
Viera don't have bunny tails actually, just weird feet and gangly limbs. I feel like Khimari would have been cut from X if IX's sales came in earlier.
Is this Jessica for ants? This picture needs to be at least...3 times as large!
Yeah. DQ6 to many is such a drop off game. Not knowing what was happening there. But I love DQ7 only because you can tell it was Horii just going all in on what he wanted to do. Almost like wanted to get whatever he had out of his system. Since DQ8 just felt like a typical JRPG just with a more DQ enjoyment.
ultima
Currently playing FF1 on my PS2 Slim and it’s making me feel sad they never bothered to port the old DQ NES games for the PS1 with updated graphics and most importantly better sound quality.
This FF1 version has INCREASED random encounters, sometimes i get in a battle after literally 1 step, but it’s still worth playing thanks to the music.
I can only imagine playing DQ II and hearing “My Road, My Journey” with PS1 sound quality or “Prologue” in DQIII.
I know there’s an IV remake for the PS1 but it’s Japanese exclusive sadly...
Thinking about it, I would say every mainline Dragon Quest game is better than its comparative mainline Final Fantasy game. Characters and world are more developed and memorable. Combat and exploration is better. Death scenes are less frequent and more impacting in DQ games.
About the only thing I can say about FF is that sometimes it has better music and settings. But because the games change themselves so often, I can't say this for every game. Final Fantasy should ironically follow Dragon Quest's lead and become more consistent. Maybe become a dedicated SciFi series, to contrast Dragon Quest's renaissance style fantasy. Though the real problems with FF are the focus on graphics and lack of play testing. So no amount of good setting will fix it. I actually loved the setting in Final Fantasy XIII. But because it was so linear and the first half the story sucked so much, I can't say the story is good. Compare this to Dragon Quest XI which has similar linear zones and slow starting story. Yet Dragon Quest XI is good. It has good characters you want to get to know more, unlike Hope or Vanille or Lightning. And there's enough materials and enemies to interact with on the linear zones to make it feel engaging. And actual towns to explore.
Dragon Quest has a more consistent quality but FF has better highs.
If you are going to fill a game with nonhumanoid races and have none of them be playable fuck off.
They really have 0 idea what to do with him. Shit limit, shit story "my horn got cut off for being smaller and so I decided to just protect Yuna" which I guess is better than Lulu which has even less story.
saga frontier 2 is the game that make me fall in love with chamber music.
You do realize that both Dragon Quest 1 and 2 were out in Japan by January of 1987 while FF1 came out in December of that year, right? They had over a year after 1, and just a little under a year for the second one, in a time period where new games could come out between 6-12 months of development. On top of this, Dragon Quest 3 releases in February, meaning that it was likely WELL under way for development by at least June and was likely announced with some details far before that.
Meaning that realistically, FF was copping DQs' style, just like every other RPG that came out during that time.
DQ 3 to 5 and FF5, all the others can fuck off
Problem with XI is that they fucked up the difficulty, they went from “easy but still challenging if you want to” with IX to “Yoshi difficulty” with XI.
I’m afraid DQ will be that from now on, even during the DS remakes resource management was kinda of a joke but now it’s even worse, camps and statues fucking everywhere, it’s like Dark Souls 2 but with even more bonfires.
>Yuji Horii is fucking terrible as a storyteller.
In less than 10 words, you immediately outed yourself as someone who has no valuable input to the discussion. Post hidden, and I laughed at you.
You’re a fucking retard, i’d argue Horii has written some of the most memorable stories in all of vidya, and those aren’t even the main stories from his games.
Actually playing a NES romhack of FF1 that plays a lot like PSX with the bug fixes. It's kind of amazing since I've played 1-3 right before this and you can feel they really wanted to outdo DQ. With giving you a boat and magical key so early. And instead of a world to sail and explore it is more focus on doing story beats. Like having to get a Ruby Gem to move past a golem to get a staff to go under the cave to fight one of the four fiends.
I fucking hated this artstyle. This would have been an amazing artstyle if it was like done in the Gamecube/Dreamcast/PS2 era, but it was done in the fucking NES/SNES era. I couldn't tell what the fuck my characters were supposed to look like because I had to choose between pixels or this extreme fujo stylization.
Name of romhack?
It felt like he wanted to make his own Sorcerian for 6, it failed partially from ambition and the new dev team, and then spent the whole fifth gen trying to get that magnum opus out there
Never would have worked at Chun, Nakamura runs a tight ship. At the same time, I wish they never parted. The man is a monster of a manager, and you can see how he pours his heart and soul into Chun's big stuff. The fact that he managed to coordinate Shibuya Scramble's various elements between the director of the game, the film crew, the acting agency, etc, all while adding a bit of himself to it is a miracle. Dragon Quest could use his and his crew's succinct polish.
>Gamecube Smash controller box in the background
Take a bath stinky smashfag.
I never liked Final Fantasy's battle system.
>I fucking hated this artstyle
You have no taste, friend
These are really unfair comparisons. FF2 and 8 are garbage for so many reasons, while DQ2 is only garbage because of the last hour of the game is untested, and 8 is just amazing on it's own right and could beat most of these FF on its own.
>Garbage monster RPGs with RNG up the ass
Nah.
But that's why they specifically put in a hard mode. For people like you who want to take away the easy features. More than that, they gave you the ability to pick which features you turn off/limit.
>RNG up the ass
how
Yuji Horii did the scenario, aka the strongest part of the game's writing. Kato did the more specific elements, like defining character personalities and shit like who Queen Zeal is and what her deal is (and in typical Kato fashion left a bunch of unsatisfying loose ends alongside). Tokita added stuff too, but god knows what. Given his track record, probably a few of the sci fi elements.
Kitase pitched in some slapstick and gay/transvestite jokes, because that's the only humor he knows and it's in every game he writes for.
Oh you're right. Nakamura and Iwata both were master of their work. I do feel Horii was more focus on doing more expanded story telling with regard to how Dragon Quest is post Chunsoft. Which maybe Nakamura wanted more focus in a game. Since right before splitting up they made Mystery Dungeon which is almost as pure video game as you can get.
Nah. FF should be allowed to do whatever conceptually. It should just be backed up by a crew of excellent writers and fantastic game/combat designers. It should also choose what it wants to be before starting production. Also the suits need to stop fucking with the directors and just let them make games.
Yoko Taro should direct FFXVI, give him complete creative freedom.
>Kitase pitched in some slapstick and gay/transvestite jokes, because that's the only humor he knows and it's in every game he writes for.
To be fair Dragon Ball had a good bit. And Chrono Trigger does it's best to play more like a psudo Dragon Ball like adventure.
Starting from RS2, the pixel art is pretty consistent with the concept art.
It was also the time where SaGa had access to actual budget for visuals, so it's kind of a weird complaint to make, visually speaking Unlimited is the only one with flawless integration of concept art into the actual game (because the character designer drew and animated the spritese himself), but that game's art was done by Yusuke Naora, which despite being an amazing animator and art director has a style that doesn't fit SaGa at all compared to Kobayashi's.
Scarlet Grace was the first game that tried to make character models as close as possible to the concept art, but given how it was made on peanuts it was so so, some characters ended up fairly good, but a lot didn't, the weird proportions also didn't help but again, you can only do so much without money.
FF5/9 > all of Dragon Quest.
Star Ocean 2 > all of Dragon Quest
Based Alkaiser
these threads are always so retarded because there's absolutely no middle ground for most people
I think it might be more that Horii is more experimental, for better or worse. Nakamura's products are even more laser focused on perfectionism where post-Chun DQs are a touch more "sloppy" with numbers and balance (still better than almost every other JRPG out there in that regard). Whatever the reason, I'd love one last Chun developed DQ. Their current creatives just don't have the knack Horii does with writing and design and modern DQ could use a bit of a tune up in terms of how it plays.
Oh don't misunderstand, I'm not blaming him for it so much as saying you can tell exactly what he wrote for the game. Dude has absolutely no sense for character voice and recycles the exact same jokes every time.
What FF should take from Dragon Quest is how there's one lead designer who oversees all the games. Main series, spin offs or whatever, Yuji Horii playtests and signs off on all of them personally. The biggest problem with Final Fantasy is not their tendency to experiment, but that they don't playtest and refine the ideas. They need one overseer like Horii to do that. Instead, they just release games half finished with almost no testing.
For FFVII:R, they will spend 5 years making all the graphics and cutscenes good, then like a month on polishing combat and making the mini games like snowboarding, chocobo racing and etc. Rushing those right before launch, so they don't even have time to playtest them. This is the problem with Final Fantasy.
This
I like Taro but god no, the last thing a series with an identity crisis needs is a big pisstake.
I'd rather see him try writing a DQ spinoff. He clearly enjoys DQ and it's simple and consistent enough that he could actually throw an effective curveball.
Just because games cone out in the same year doesn't mean they were copied.
Maybe it's me but has Chunsoft made a big open JRPG recently? They seem to be more focus on making graphical adventure games and Mystery Dungeon.
>What FF should take from Dragon Quest is how there's one lead designer who oversees all the games.
I also miss Sakaguchi.
>For FFVII:R, they will spend 5 years making all the graphics and cutscenes good, then like a month on polishing combat and making the mini games like snowboarding, chocobo racing and etc.
For once, nah. They got the best combat designer in the company on it and he already made a wonderful system.
Problem is the actual enemy design and pacing seems terrible.
They live on breadcrumbs, the closest they've made in years is Zanki Zero. The people who design the basics of combat and such are fine, but everything else is abysmal.
>Taro doing a Dragon Quest story
Won't really work. Taro way of story is through nihilism which doesn't really work with Dragon Quest. Since while they have sadden stories it really doesn't go into that realm. Also why Final Fantasy won't really work since they tend to try to be even more joyful than even Dragon Quest.
FF is literally something they made to copy the DQ1 hype and it was known that 2 would feature party members.
I'm well aware of the timeline. Square clearly decided to make an RPG due to the success of Dragon Quest. But they only imitated a few of the basic features (overworld map with towns, random combat that uses turns). It's clear that both DQ and FF drew heavily from western RPG source material.
FF9>FF6>DQ5>FF10>DQ8>FF7>DQ11>DQ9>DQ4>DQ7>FF5>FF12> DQ3 > FF4 > DQ6 > FF3 > FF1 > DQ2 > DQ1 > FF8 > FF13 > FF2 > F15
I was in a dead sleep when mum started shouting. "Wakey-wakey!" she squawked. "Rise and shiine! Today's a very important day! Today's your first visit to the castle!" ...Anoying, right? But I got up anyway."
Today's my 16th birthday, and I have an audience with the king. Mum's apparently worried that he'll charge me with some big important task, so she gave me a cypress stick...for some reason. Pffft. Like that'll help."
As we walk to the castle, Mum keeps blabbing about how excited she is and how long she's been waiting for this day. She's told me this story a million and one times, so I just keep quiet like always."
When we arrive, I see my friend coming out of the castle. He's 16, too, but his fearless gaze makes him look like a legendary hero-to-be. I'm sure he's got a lot to live up to! MY dad's just a carpenter, so I've got it easy, heh.
I feel like he could tone it down to tell a somber spinoff.
Maybe you're just careless with language. Normally when you claim a game is copied, you mean that the games are more than just "in the same genre." Nobody would claim that Mortal Kombat "copied" Street Fighter 2, despite the fact that without SF2, MK would never exist.
>They need one overseer like Horii to do that. Instead
Horii has been the creator and major contributor of a brand that exists since over 30 years and lives (and will die) by said virtue.
FF was never like that, it started out as an explicit team effort by a bunch of people that never had a clear idea of what to do but balanced each other out, this ended after the second installment of the series, leaving only Sakaguchi as a more or less stable personality behind it, and he has proven countless times to be completely useless when he doesn't have a competent team to do the actual work he likes to put his name on.
FF's strength is that unlike DQ it isn't bound to a certain person, it's not an auteur series so to speak so you don't really have to worry about it dying when the creator gets tired, croaks or simply retires, this is undoubtedly a big reason why it's still around, because the lack of a clear direction and identity means you can repurpose it and however you want, slap the brand name on it and make millions.
At the same time, the fact that it doesn't have any sort of coherent direction or identity also causes the periodical purge of its userbase when a certain age group that has grown with certain games inevitable feels betrayed or alienated since those games don't cater to them anymore and become barely recognizable, though this is also a problem of nostalgia and other social problems rather than the quality of the games themselves and opens up another can of worms.
If you want a Square series with coherency, substance, will to break new grounds and made by people who like what they're doing and don't sacrifice their work in the name of corporate money you play SaGa, not FF, FF is for making money, always has been.
I'm a different user just chiming in that FF1 was absolutely made to cash in on the DQ train and probably only had party members because they knew DQ2 would. Square didn't ever directly copy their competition, they just made weird games (that were almost all bad).
>t.cutscene skipper
Both need to exist.
FF can be experimental and occasionally hit a home run, while DQ is reliable and functions as a safety net in case FF fumbles really hard.
>and he has proven countless times to be completely useless when he doesn't have a competent team to do the actual work he likes to put his name on.
Doesn't that apply to every director/producer? Can't do much if your team is garbage. He's middling at best, but he understands the basics of what make a good RPG better than most.
>I'm well aware of the timeline. Square clearly decided to make an RPG due to the success of Dragon Quest. But they only imitated a few of the basic features (overworld map with towns, random combat that uses turns). It's clear that both DQ and FF drew heavily from western RPG source material.
>overworld map with towns, random combat that uses turns
Those aren't even DQ features, they were copied from Ultima and Wizardry respectively.
Pretty much every thing people associate with traditional jrpgs like FF, DQ and SMT was copied from western rpgs: the turn-based party-based combat system right down to specific spells and classes/jobs, the overworld, even the tradition of getting an airship, heck, even specific game concepts like alignment and demon negotiation in SMT, or the distinction between white/black/red mages in Final Fantasy.
Heck, you can even see this in Final Fantasy 2: it switched to a system where your stats and skills improved as you used them, in dirct response to Dungeon Master, a western rpg that came out the year before and popularized that system.
Games can be in the same genre. Yes, it was made to cash in on the hype. News flash bud, all games are made to make money.
>Final Fantasy
Didnt try DQ but FF, the classic turn based ones, are some of the most boring boiler plate jrpgs of all time.
The plot and the characters are so generic and they do take themselves too seriesly which makes their dialog comes off so annoying.
The gameplay is also so shit. I guess it was innovative for its time and has set the standard for other jrpg but it really doesnt anything special and mid to late game falls so flat because the game becomes so dogshit easy.
At its best FF is better
DQ is much more consistently good
...duh? Again, I'm not the one who said it was copied, just that it was riding the wave.
FF's peak is higher than DQ's.
FF's valley is lower than DQ's.
DQ reminds me of the perfect analogy I saw for Gran Turismo 5 back when 1up.com was a thing: GT5 was called "a hospital with cars". It's clean, sterile, and devoid and any personality. It exists for one function and nothing else. That's what DQ is like. I don't want to say it doesn't have soul, but it's ridiculously bland - even with Toriyama's art, somehow. Blue Dragon is more interesting than DQ.
>Doesn't that apply to every director/producer?
Not really, no, Horii is proof of that.
Granted that all games are products of a team at the end of the day, but there are directors, producers or any staff member really that are still capable individuals on their own despite the rest of the team, Sakaguchi isn't one of those, and he has shown this again and again before fading into complete irrelevance.
>I feel like he could tone it down to tell a somber spinoff.
I mean he will do anything for money. But as I said his element is nihilism. I guess he could tone it down with some basic heroes journey but feel him having more control and maybe setting off another nuke will be more his style.
What I don't like about DQ is that they all look the same. Same art style, same menus, same monsters, same looking worlds. Everyone raves about the "solid" gameplay, but how is it any different from any other JRPG? Attack, Magic, Item, Run. Is it the goofy names for the spells that make it different? At least SaGa games have some actual interesting mechanics, and FF has a new look and new style every time, DQ is more of the same aside from the plots I guess, but even those don't seem to be anything special after playing VII, VIII, IX and III.
I just don't get the appeal.
>Blue Dragon is more interesting than DQ.
Let's not say things we can't take back. Blue Dragon's aesthetic was literally sterile with text to speech announcements, a cold, lifeless UI and a non-story.
>It's clean, sterile, and devoid and any personality.
How to spot when someone hasn't played any of the games. Jesus.
This. I'm so hyped for RSG3 and Scarlet Grace, here's hoping it leads to more localized remasters and new titles.
Square has a shitload of faults these days, but as a consolation prize they're pumping money in giving somewhat of a shit to this series and Mana, and i'm ok with that.
>how is it any different from any other JRPG?
The numbers and skill sets. People really underestimate how much game balance matters
>FF can be experimental
FF never was experimental, all of their games are copies of other successful games of their time, with maybe one or two shallow gimmicks to try to distract you from that.
The existence of spinoffs like Tactics, which are literally rebranded franchises, proves this even more, they only kind of tried with 2 and even there, it's hardly experimental outside of the growth system, which was a rough blueprint that ended up being developed in another series, which actually ended up being wildly experimental.
>I'm so hyped for RSG3 and Scarlet Grace,
Jesus fuck, if those release this year 2019 will break in half. I really want to play Scarlet Grace.
I played VIII, IX, V, and XI in that order.
>FF can be experimental and occasionally hit a home run
I don't see this unless you're talking about spinoffs or FFXII/FFXIII. FFXV was hardly a experiment as much as completely aimless. While there are some interesting subcurrents in FF, specially the jobs side, FF almost never pushes the envelope in any way that is interesting in JRPGs. They're starting valley all around.
For something that truly tries and experiments, SaGa is the thing.
>For something that truly tries and experiments, SaGa is the thing.
How is SaGa experimental?
Nobody gives a shit about western RPGs, stop shoveling Wizardry and all that western trash in every JRPG discussion you retarded autist, stop browsing Yea Forums 24/7 and kill yourself already.
Wow, talk about a sore loser.
t. got filtered because he was spamming X/A like in all his other baby-rpg
>Want to play JRPG
>Remember I have to go to work in a couple of hours
>No longer want to play JRPG
Now that I don't have time to do jack shit other than couple matches on a fightan of my choice I feel like I don't want to play JRPGs anymore.
I miss being a NEET / full time student, and have time to spend playing these long ass games all day.
Both are confirmed to come out this year.
Not a good move for the west though since SaGa games are pretty meaty and having TWO of them come out at the same time is pure overload, I sank 500+ hours in Scarlet Grace when it came out of Vita, for most people who didn't play RS3 on SNES this will be tough, we're looking at a total of 12 playable campaigns, 11 of which with multiple routes ranging from a minimum of 2 to an average of 6, multiple endings, very non linear gameplay and so on.
Shouldn’t you be in a Smash thread?
The series consistently tries new things and gets away with many well stablished things in JRPGs from game to game. For example, Unlimited SaGa is made to be as "basic" as possible to its pen and paper approach down to using roulettes for everything in combat, thing that hardly some JRPGs have tried.
I'm buying them both anyway.
Kitase was more of the glue that kept FFIV-X together. But he's been replaced by Nomura. Which is the problem. Nomura latches onto random ideas and design changes even more than Sakaguchi ever did.
And you laid out the inherent pros and cons of having a single stable person perfectly. And it's just cementing my original opinion that Final Fantasy should find a person like that. Rather than throwing the dice each game with random teams.
Stop responding to WRPG-Kun, just hide and report.
It hurts me that tons of people blindly latch on to Nomura and think he can do no wrong when he's a fairly lousy director. He's a good visual director and designer, but he just can't helm a project very well.
>But they only imitated a few of the basic features (overworld map with towns, random combat that uses turns)
>It's clear that both DQ and FF drew heavily from western RPG source material.
Except that's not clear at all. The combination of elements and the controller-driven menu system designed for ease of access was solely a Dragon Quest thing. Combine that with the literal mountain of Dragon Quest clones coming in around the period of 2, and you pretty much have a sure thing that FF just copped DQ's style.
I used the word "copped". Either way, FF is clearly taking large elements of DQ into it's gameplay and design, and this was normal, and is normal for pretty much any time period where "the next big thing" came out. The only real difference is that FF had its own style of graphics and music that somewhat set it apart.
Also, I would absolutely say Mortal Kombat copied Street Fighter 2 because it fucking did. The reason everyone in Mortal Kombat has the same uppercut move and the same-speed projectiles is literally because Tobias hated the fact that Street Fighter 2 had differences in the characters which gave them "unfair balance", not understanding they were different for a reason.
And this is taking into account that Alliance Alive HD is coming out this year too PLUS DQXI for Switch and FE 3 Houses, +like 5 other games. It's pure overkill for me. I'm buying everything eventually tho.
Kitase is not relevant at all in IV and IX.
both series were great when they were competitors. when it was enix vs squaresoft, enix gave us pure, wonderful comfort food while square tried to change it up (some were awesome, some not).
i'm glad their merger did not change this, but also sad that this merger didn't bring us more localized dq-spin off stuffs.
And dont forget, final fantasy only released two months before dq3. Sounds like a cut and dry case.
No, look, I enjoy the art style, but the whole reason you include pictures with NES/SNES manuals is because you have people trying to decipher your pixel art and you want them to be guided in the right direction to know what they're looking at.
Compare the sprites of 2 with the art work. You can vaguely tell what the characters are supposed to look like, but the art makes them look like they should be 2 pixels wide and 180 pixels tall with elongated Drr Drrr features.
Save that fucking artwork for games where I can look at the screen and tell what the fuck I'm looking at.
>final fantasy only released two months before dq3
That's hilarious
So Final Fantasy ripped off a tabletop roleplaying game instead of another wildly popular Japanese video game that came right before and plays almost exactly like it?
>The numbers and skill sets. People really underestimate how much game balance matters
Please explain, I don't know exactly what "the numbers" refers to.
>Walk forward
>Get into random battle with group you've never seen before
>Hit them with fire spell
>It's their weakness!
>Kill them before they ever move
>Move one more space
>Same group of enemies
>They get granted the first turn
>They hit you with YOUR weakness
>They completely TPK you before YOU get to move
>Game over, please reload
Nah. Just nah.
>J-j-j-j-just build a team with aboslutely no weaknesses though!
>First 20 hours of the game, this is literally impossible
>The last 20 hours of the game, if you do this, someone nukes you with almighty damage and insta-kills your party
Double nah.
No SMT is as hard as you're making it out to be. Stop being a casual and do some fucking team building.
>So Final Fantasy ripped off a tabletop roleplaying game instead of another wildly popular Japanese video game that came right before and plays almost exactly like it?
>With the sole exceptions of CHAOS, WarMECH, and the CARIBE (piranha), every single monster race comes from an AD&D monster manual published between 1977 and 1983. In a number of cases, FF1 includes most (or all) subtypes of a monster without adding any that weren't in AD&D. For example, SCUM, MUCK, OOZE, and SLIME are very clearly read, in Japanese, as Green Slime, Gray Ooze, Ochre Jelly, and Black Pudding... exactly the names of the only four gloopy monsters in the 1977 AD&D Monster Manual. Not a coincidence.
>Most of the FF1 monsters came from the 1977 manual. I didn't look as closely, but I definitely recognized some names in the later manuals from subsequent FF games. Espers, too! The 1983 book has Carbuncle with a ruby, and Phoenix, and Phantom... and Mist Dragon. And that Mist Dragon looks just like the one in FF4, and is a non-evil dragon that can turn to mist at will. And it's one page away from a Shadow Dragon that looks not unlike Golbez's and has disabling magic.
>Re spells: the CURE spells are pretty similar to AD&D, especially with CUR4 being the full heal, but they moved levels around for those: they were 1, 4, 5, 6 in AD&D, not 1, 3, 5, 7. And there were no MT healing spells at all, and not as many attack spells (no parallels for ICE1, LIT3, or NUKE). So there were some very sensible adjustments made, at least.
>But geez, look at all these direct analogues, at exactly the right level, or adjusted by one to squeeze 9 spell levels into 8... spells I would never have suspected, but that do line up perfectly. RUSE was Sanctuary! FADE/HOLY, meet Holy Word! EXIT was Word of Recall, and here are HOLD, CONF, BANE, BRAK, RUB in succession, not to mention STUN, BLND, KILL, and beyond. Oof.
Dumb weeb.
Anybody else kinda experience this? For years DQ never "clicked" with me. I actively played 1, 2, 8, and 9 growing up but I could just never get into them. Then when I was stuck in a hotel for two weeks, I bought DQ4 for the DS on whim (cause I needed a new game) and it finally fell into place for me.
>SE won't ever bring DQX over because they think it will cannibalize XIV
I will forever be mad most FF fags don't even touch DQ
DQ1/2 don't play like FF outside of the Ultima base, which was so exceedingly common at the time it's hardly something you can find a fault in.
Ruleset wise, they're pretty different, and that user was right, Kawazu pretty much copypasted the entire AD&D manual into the game and just changed a few names, Horii &Co. copied Ultima 1/2 instead without ever considering D&D.
The actual numbers used for the battle system. Attack values, stat growth, heal percentiles, what a crit entails, etc. The game's math is some of the best in RPGs.
God it feels so good to see WRPGs reduced to indie shovelware and AAA lootboxfests
Nothing of value lost.
I didn't realize how much I liked them until I realized I owned every numbered game and enjoyed each one.
user I'm sorry but this has literally never happened to me
They're fucking right, I'd ditch my XIV sub for X in a heartbeat.
Hard? No, not hard, just retarded. I don't like having hours of progress lost just because someone got an ambush on me. Even fucking DRPGs doesn't kill you in ambushes until the last couple of floors, but there is a legitimate chance that the enemy team going first will instantly wipe you out. On top of this, it's a monster RPG, meaning you're going to be grinding SOMETHING for hours, whether it be collection+fusion, or just simply levels.
SMT is shit and I'm glad Persona took over as king of Atlus.
I couldn't get into Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES. But I was a dumb kid who didn't understand equipping items or using magic. Avoided the series for a long time, playing lots of other JRPGs since then. Loved Suikoden, Chrono, Mana and so on.
Randomly bought Dragon Quest VIII on PS2, thinking I should give the series another chance. And it became my favorite game of all time. Went back and played all the other DQ games and loved them all. Including Dragon Warrior 1 on NES, which I now consider one of the 10 best games on NES.
Sir, you were replying to an image of an SRPG.
Hijacking this thread to ask if there any other SRPGs like Final Fantasy Tactics that has verticality in it, western stuff like XCOM/Wasteland are good answers too.
DQ11 is the best turn based JRPG this current gen. It's just really fucking well done and I'm surprised people just calling it "generic" but not stating on how that's a good thing. It's special because it brings you back to the old JRPG days where it's just a adventure with you and your mates being the evil bad with a whole bunch of character and life in the setting.
For Final Fantasy, I never liked the majority of the main titles and only really loved the side games. For DQ, I fucking loved both. DQ wins.
can I like both?
I feel both series went irredeemably down hill on the 3d transition. the series peaked at 4 and 6 respectively
>I don't like having hours of progress lost just because someone got an ambush on me.
L M A O
Tactics Ogre, aka what FFT is based on.
Vandal Hearts 1 & 2
Literally the problem with ALL of this is AD&D was not easily or publicly accessible in Japan at the time, but after DQ came out, games based on D&D were becoming more popular, like Wizardry and Ultima.
Shock.
Also, I love the translation errors in here.
>he doesn't save often
>he doesn't know when to flee
>grinding at all
>AND a Personafag
wew
What's the difference between VIII and XI?
Extremely good characterization as well.
Camus, Senya, Silv, Vero, Rab and 8 are all terribly fleshed out through mere subtleties and interactions.
Tictacs Ogre games
Nippon Ichi's SRPGs ranging from Disgaea to Phantom Kingdom
Front Mission, to a certain extent, most maps don't really mess around with elevation.
Wild Arms XF
Just to name a few.
I cannot go back to DQ and FF after taking the Xenopill recently. This series of games is everything I wanted in a JRPG for so long and I feel retarded for having stayed away from it.
I was replying to the words MegaTen. The SRPG games are full of their own unique bullshit.
>Hey, did you grind up to get pierce and beserk dance?
>No?
>lolololololololololol game over, come back 10 hours from now when you fused and grinded up your team of 20 guys like this just so you can stand a chance against this final boss that spams literally the same exact strategy at you.
The only thing wrong with DQ is the translations. I can't stand the translations. I picked up builders and they had a bunch of modern slang and I wouldn't be surprised if I heard yeet down the line.
I think you're just bad.
>Flee from an enemy's first turn where they hit you with your weakness, status spells, and high-chance insta-kill spells
Oh no, it's retarded.
One's a PS2 game, the other's a PS4 game. The differences are in load times, scale, and detail.
Also 8 has a smaller party and a thinner story with more unique content and a skill point system while 11 has a larger party and a denser story with more backtracking and a skill grid system.
2's kinda shit. I liked 1 and X, though. Still prefer DQ.
No, you just enjoyed the autistic process of grinding up broken shit to stand a chance. I actually like to play games.
>All PSOne/PSP Games sans Tactics Ogre
Fuck, should have listened to my friend and bought a Vita instead over a 3DS, I guess Etrian Odyssey is still fun. I guess I could just emulate it but playing on a handheld really reminded me why I liked playing with a handheld over my desktop.
FF because I always found it more enjoyable when I actually liked whatever entry I was playing
DQ is fine but doesnt stray off the beaten path and I dont like half of toriyamas designs
I don't like how DQ usually only shows the monsters in a battle.
I absolutely loved IX's thing, where you see your party hopping about, and being guarded, while selecting moves and whatnot.
Think so too mate, I haven't ever felt the need to grind in an SMT outside of one time I completely got myself out of invocation points (or whatever it's called) in Soul Hackers because I didn't understand how that game was balanced.
>Literally the problem with ALL of this is AD&D was not easily or publicly accessible in Japan at the time, but after DQ came out, games based on D&D were becoming more popular, like Wizardry and Ultima.
>Shock.
D&D was translated in Japanese before DQ1 came out.
The concept for FF was pitched before DQ1 came out.
>AK: Initially, talking about the genesis of the whole Final Fantasy franchise... [Hironobu] Sakaguchi said, with the first one, "Let's make an RPG." I'm a little foggy on just how much Dragon Quest influenced that decision, but the one thing you can say for certain was that when Dragon Quest came out, it proved to this country that RPGs could sell. Mr. Sakaguchi had wanted to make an RPG long before that, but he couldn't get permission from the company, because the company said, "Well, we're not sure that will sell." But with Dragon Quest proving that a game like that could be successful, we were finally able to get that going. It all started with that.
>We were all big fans of Wizardry and Ultima back then. Even though Dragon Quest had come out, in our minds, there still wasn't anything quite comparable to Ultima or Wizardry. That's the kind of game that Sakaguchi and Hiromichi Tanaka and I were interested in. As far as my role in the game went, I was mainly in charge of the battle system and battle sequences. For that, I tried to make it as close to Dungeons & Dragons as possible. That was my goal.
Dumb, dumb weeb.
I like Xenoblade but i just can’t understand people who overhype it, have they never played a JRPG before? Xenoblade games are basically offline MMOs with fetch quests.
Tactics Ogre's definitive remake is a PSP game as well.
>high-chance insta-kill spells
They barely if ever work
(Only played FF back in the day, so started with VI (3) an then up to X, which I hated and never looked back.
Only played DQXI recently and really liked it.)
Here the TL:DR
From my meager experience I'd say the older FF were pretty good, but somewhere turned to a cheap whore only trying to dazzle with simple tricks. Where DQ has been able to retain class and while seeming more bland on the surface, is a lot more fun (and polished) than FF.
VII & VIII on the 3DS show your party members.
When the FUCK are the SaGa games coming to Switch? I'm really tempted to play RS2 again but the only thing I can think of changing is sacrificing the lizards to learn dark magicks
The Vita is a must have if you like JRPGs, especially SRPGs since you have entire series in there.
If the DS emulator finally takes off, it will be the end of all handheld for a long time.
Playing Tactics and while I get the gist of what's happening, I'm having a hard time getting confused on everyone's motivation and what's going on exactly. Am I just too early in the game?(chapter 2) or am I just a brainlet?
The only reason you believe that is because dragon quest isn’t popular in the west, ask any jap and they will tell you dragon quest is way more memorable
Or just play any dragon quest by yourself, i find them way more charming than all the edgelords in final fantasy
I could never get into Final Fantasy.
Meanwhile, Dragon Quest just hits all the right areas for me. Music, characters, gameplay, and especially the monsters.
Same time as everyone else given how it's a global launch.
And to be fair, Scarlet Grace is already available too if you know JP.
I think FF villains tend to leave bigger impressions.
As you said RS2 is on Switch. Both RS3, Alliance Alive and Scarlett Grace are coming to it this year. Last Remnant is already out on it.
Any game in the next years that comes out from SaGa is bound to come out on Switch since it's the Vita 2. I don't think they're remastering the Frontier games or porting Unlimited or the PS2 remake of RS2 anytime soon, so you'll have to cling on to the development of emulators for that.
Dragon Quest VIII has a more open overworld, better music and better exploration in my opinion. Dragon Quest XI has more linear zones like Final Fantasy XIII (though done way better) and not as good music. But since the Switch version is letting you change the music to the music of Dragon Quest VIII and equip DQVIII gear, you now have the best of both worlds.
Both games have item crafting systems, good characters, towns to explore, voice acting, turn based combat engaging in game cutscenes and some of the best graphics for the system they're on. But Dragon Quest IX also had these things. In many ways, Dragon Quest XI feels like a blend of Dragon Quest VIII and IX. Improving the things IX didn't do well like the zones and item collecting.
*ahem*
best villain who is in the best game.
Glad you found something you like. But for me, it's the opposite. Couldn't get into Xenoblade because of the endless tutorials and the combat system. I might try it again sometime later.
D&D came out in 1985, same year as Dragon Quest.
>Some of the earliest Japanese RPGs were science fiction titles, including Donkey Commando in 1982 and Enterprise: Role Play Game in Star Trek in 1983. Classic Traveller was the first translated RPG in 1984, with Dungeons & Dragons following in 1985
en.wikipedia.org
It also wasn't actually very popular at first. Not until after the success of DQ and FF. Its very unlikely that D&D directly influenced RPGs, especially considering the fact that the late NES/Early SNES era, Japan was convinced that America, the place that invented D&D, didn't actually like RPGs because their shit wasn't selling.
Also your quote is hilarious.
>Dude, Mr. Sakaguichi TOTALLY wanted to make an RPG before Dragon Quest, he just uh...he just didn't.
>For reasons
Suuuper credible.
Funny because Dragon Quest has a better clown and a more developed reason for him to be crazy evil.
Don't reply to WRPG-Kun, you're wasting everyone's time and potentially derailing threads, ignore him, he's only here to shitpost.
>33% on the weakest versions
>66% on the stronger versions
>Having a weakness to the element almost guarantees it
>If your main character dies, even if your teammates can revive you, you game over
>Early game abilities/armor that grant you immunities/resistance to the element generally will leave you vulnerable to more common attack elements
>"barely ever!"
Our anime genocidal swordsman is also more of a nuanced character than "MY MOMMY IS AN UNDEAD ALIEN WTF"
ff4 has an english ps1 version
It was labeled under final fantasy chronicles and came with chrono trigger
>>If your main character dies, even if your teammates can revive you, you game over
This is my only gripe
>the evil staff made me do it
vs
>a man who went insane from magitek infusion
>The kid, the poor dog and ice mountain grandma all fucking DIE
Why are you so cruel Yuji?
At least the fat doggo didn’t stay alone...
out of curiosity since I haven't played DQ8, does dhoulmagus also fuck up the entire world to become a god?
And most importantly is his theme this sick?
youtube.com
haha, you do realize dhoulmagus was just a butt hurt pos and that's why he even stole the staff in the first place right?
At least Healie became human
>The evil staff made me do it
So did you just forget his entire backstory explained in several cutscenes or are you just playing dumb?
% on the weakest versions
% on the stronger versions
You're now pulling shit straight off your ass.
Yuji Horii full on admits he got the insperation to make Dragon Quest after playing Wizardry and Ultima. No idea why idiots keeps saying it's D&D. Horii never said he played D&D. And after Dragon Quest 1, the series started going in its own direction.
>>”b-but muh good old days!!!!
God you fucking boomers are the worst, FF has turned into gwafix whoring garbage meanwhile DQ has a set foundation and separates spin offs with different gameplay from mainline games
I hate the shit they added to 3DS.
if we're going to boil Kefka down to the most basic explanation of his motivations, then we can do the same to Dhoulmagus
I think they're both wonderful badguys but Kefka left a much bigger mark on the JRPG psyche
Are you retards seriously trying to claim that Ultima and Wizardry did not influence Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy? There's nothing wrong with admitting that simple fact.
Dragon Quest, easy. I usually find FF hard to get into for one reason or another.
>out of curiosity since I haven't played DQ8, does dhoulmagus also fuck up the entire world to become a god?
No. But the monster controlling him does.
There's no mercy in your shounen anime game. Remember, it's all generic and only for kids.
i cant stand the music in dragon quest
Quick guys how long does the spell Temper/Steel last in FF 1 Origins on the PS1.
Is it just for one turn?
Googled it and can’t find an answer.
The latter. Dragon quest gets stale as fuck and requires absurd difficulty modes because there's generally nothing new to learn, no new system, nothing new to come up with. Also dragon quest gets shafted music wise, and their characters are always subpar.
I'll take wildly variable with new things to learn and the chance the characters and music are great over consistent staleness.
Nocturne's rate of success:
Hama / Mudo: 40%
Hamaon / Mudoon: 60%
Mahama / Mamudo: 20%
Mahamaon / Mamudoon: 30%
Stone Gaze: 50%
Hell Gaze: 70%
Their motives are pretty much the same. They wanted more power than they had and did risky things to get it. That risk they took made them mentally unstable. The difference between them is, Dhoulmagus was being controlled. So when you look back, it's kind of a sad story for him. Kefka wasn't being controlled and so you as the player can't really feel sorry for him. You just kill him because, left unchecked, he'd kill more people.
>No. But the monster controlling him does.
See that's not nearly as bad ass as stabbing the (up until then) main antagonists in the back, fucking up the entire world so bad it could be seen from space and turning into a god ontop of a giger tower made out of the rubble.
It lasts until the character dies or the battle ends. it never expires, and stacks infinitely
I love Dairy Queen and their ice cream
Cant stand it in dq 11*
You realize user said it's the same thing, except clown was first and mustache man was second in DQ's case, right?
>Japan was convinced that America, the place that invented D&D, didn't actually like RPGs because their shit wasn't selling.
It's true though.
RPGs were niche games for nerds in the 80s. It was successful in the sense of it being profitable and famous, but not 1.5 million units successful like Dragon Quest. None of the 80s WRPG on computer came anywhere near the sales of the console JRPGs.
It took millennial kids getting addicted to Pokemon and then the media blitz with Final Fantasy VII to really change mainstream attitudes towards JRPGs in the US.
Doing extreme stuff doesn't make him a good character. In the end, he's just an insane guy. It's like saying the Terminators are "badass" because of the stuff they do. But they have zero personality or motivation. They just follow their programming. The thing that gets the audience to care is all the other characters who have actual motives and personality.
Dhoulmagus is being controlled, so the malevolent force behind him gives him the motivation and personality. And you as the viewer connect to the sages he kills. You know, if you care about that kind of stuff. This is why I think Dragon Quest character deaths have more on an impact than most Final Fantasy ones. Because they develop motives and personalities before they die.
>RPGs were niche games for nerds in the 80s.
>It was successful in the sense of it being profitable and famous
Critical thinking isn't your strong suit, is it?
>None of the 80s WRPG on computer came anywhere near the sales of the console JRPGs.
That's because people were actually just spending millions on playing D&D. What do you need the inferior computer game for?
>It took millennial kids getting addicted to Pokemon and then the media blitz with Final Fantasy VII to really change mainstream attitudes towards JRPGs in the US.
You got one part of that right. It just simply took millennial kids who weren't exposed to D&D after it nearly died and went back into hibernation status when TSR was closed down.
>FF is literally something they made to copy the DQ1 hype and it was known that 2 would feature party members.
> The thing that gets the audience to care is all the other characters who have actual motives and personality.
wrong, pure evil villains who love being bad are the best.
Nice, thanks.
>pure evil villains are the best
>posts a picture of a tragic hero
What did he mean by this?
FF NES spells are insanely broken. Well at least the ones that work.
>copy the DQ1 hype
The hype, not the game, dipshit.
>Critical thinking isn't your strong suit, is it?
Economics isn't your strong suit, is it? Tip: Profit and Revenue aren't the same thing.
>That's because people were actually just spending millions on playing D&D
"spending millions" is weaselly way to get around the fact that D&D was not selling millions of units the way console JRPGs were selling (mostly in Japan, but even in the US someone who played tabletop D&D was more likely play Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy than Wizardry).
If that was true people would like Ultimecia instead of wondering why she even showed up.
Exdeath is great, though.
>>Dragon Quest
>Although it may seem basic from an outsiders perspective, it genuinely has some of the best stories in vidya with unique elements. Often times time travel and dimension hopping is part of it
which dragon quest game(s) have the best combat and story in your opinion? been wanting to get into the series
The same can be said for all FF spells. The ones that work are broken. If they don't work, they do barely anything or are blocked. FFIV is especially annoying in this way as bosses basically are only vulnerable to the one spell that is their weakness, then absorb or deflect all the others (usually with a OHKO counter attack). It's not hard, but just annoying trial and error gameplay.
took me awhile, but I finally "get" DQ. Now I can't get enough of it. Literally the comfort food of vidya
FF1 is just a special case where the spells that work are broken. And really once ATB came to be buff and debuffs stopped mattering.
>The same can be said for all FF spells.
Most spells in FF beyond 2 are worthless on average, outside of the super nukes or time altering spells there's hardly anything you'll want to use since your melee/abilities will be better most of the time, outside of a bunch of exceptions like Meltdown in FFVIII.
In FF1, spells are mostly broken by design, another perk of staying true to its AD&D base.
>Tip: Profit and Revenue aren't the same thing.
Okay? Congrats?
> An estimated 20 million people worldwide have played D&D since it was created, with more than $1bn spent on game equipment and books.
>"I thought we would sell about 50,000 copies," says Gary Gygax.
>Co-creator Dave Arneson recalls: "When we started playing we thought we were kind of crazy. It seemed to start quite well and sold better, and better and better."
>The game spread by word of mouth and became a cult in schools and in universities across the globe.
>It was even a cult at a Wisconsin naval base. "At one time every nuclear submarine had a D&D group," says Arneson.
>There is something in D&D that strikes a chord in many people; the call of adventure
news.bbc.co.uk
Do you want a reward for being retarded and thinking you could "weasel" your way out of not knowing facts?
>is weaselly way to get around the fact that D&D was not selling millions of units the way console JRPGs were selling
It literally was. It was selling like hotcakes up until the mid-90s, and it was actually still selling really well, but then intra-company drama blew it all out from the inside and it went dormant.
You shouldn't talk about things in which you aren't an expert in.
magic being busted is fine given the limiter applied to FF1 in spell charges.
last time magic was useful in a non FF mmo was FF6. FF6's ultima spam is probably why magic has been meh since
DQ is objectively trash
FF is always better
>Started off as a complete and total rip off of Dragon Quest.
No it didn't, Sakaguchi created the game design documents for FF1 before DQ1 released, he just didn't have funds at the time to make it until a bit later.
OH NO NO NO FFBROS
Oh, yeah, totally, he had all these documents proving he didn't copy the style of dragon quest. They're just with his girlfriend in Canada.
Eh, Vancian casting doesn't limit much beyond the first hours, by the time you're level 10-15 your magic is already good enough to steamroll the game.
Man, take one look at Square's pre-FF catalogue. They did nothing but copy the idea of a game that already existed and then implement it in their own way. FF was just the first time their unique spin was good.
Yeah DQ lost
Sakaguchi made design doc for FF1 but had no funds to make it, so he made that pop idol game to gain funds
While that happened DQ1-3 released in very short timespan, FF1 then released after that, of course they could see what DQ did which is why FF1 was better
It's a miracle that a series like SaGa came from Square
See
But some of those at least worked. Rad Racer and a few other games were mad popular on Famicom/NES. It shows just how incompetent Square management was that they were going into bankruptcy even after having these hits. Then did it again on the PS1 despite having the most popular and highest selling PS1 games. Probably would have done it again if they didn't merge with Enix and Edios.
Why? He's literally just stated the same baseless "fact" with no source that I just called out. Why would I look at your dumb post?
I'd curbstomp more FF characters than DQ characteers
Therefore FF is better
Square has a history of shooting themselves in the foot and somehow coming out stronger than ever. Corporate blood magic
Why do people dislike DQ6? I thought it was fine really, had some neat ideas. Was it the pacing?
But you'd still curbstomp DQ ones, dont lie
Yamauzu magic baby. That dude smokes D&D pages.
*3 of them attack and kill your WM in the first turn*
FUCK
Influenced by != copied/ripped off
Basically the entire Final Fantasy design mentality. Quantity over quality. Try new things, but don't polish them because different automatically = better.
I need a source on this because this sounds like "my dad works at nintendo" tier.
>Hey, remember that thing we did in DQ2 where as soon as you get the ship, the game becomes directionless and requires you to pinpoint islands/points-of-interests in a giant world, on top of which you have random encounters happening up the ass that cannot be dispersed with Holy Water/Protection at a higher rate than normal?
>. . yeeess?
>Why don't we do that AGAIN, except we'll span it across 3½ maps.
>GENIUS!
Also because it took too much inspiration from FF game design and made like 80% of the skills completely worthless against even normal enemies because they were immune for no reason.
Final faggots reached a new low today. Legit making shit up to look better.
>Xenoblade games are basically offline MMOs with fetch quests.
Oh so like .hack right
>DQ stories
>Some random kid is the hero of legend, and goes on a quest to find magical weapons/armor to gain enough strength to defeat the evil plaguing the world.
>FF Stories
>Some random kid is having a normal life until fantastic events put him/her in the spotlight of a conflict between good and evil, and goes on a quest to find a crystal/legendary creature/special person to give an advantage to the good side and save the world.
Both are the same shit, but FF just makes the "quest to save the world" overly complicated.
They had a ton of bombs in spite of 3D World Runner, Rad Racer, etc, so it's not surprising they almost went under. You're right, though.
>best JRPG of all time
that's Earthbound
SMT.
>>Some random kid is the hero of legend
in VIII you're just a soldier
>DQV
>predictable plot
fucking lmao
Dragon Quest. Consistent Quality beats the horrifying lows and occasional highs of modern Final Fantasy
I don't know why people overhype mediocrity like FFVI so much, but there you go.
in XI I was genuinely shocked when that newborn baby died after Mordegon killed the tree
The recall system was fucking terrible (only people who played the SFC version know this shit).
The game drags as in the middle.
The cast is mostly duds.
The scenarios kinda suck.
Do your research, it's all true
also enix never had any actual devs making games, they outsourced everything, they only had producers and businessmen at enix
chunsoft made the original dq games
the dq team literally used ultima and wizardry as the basis
>Following the release of Karuizawa Yuukai Annai, Yuji had also been talking with Chida about what his next game should be. Since his foray into the adventure genre had started, Yuji had bought an Apple II PC in order to play Wizardry and Ultima. These games had hit Japan like a wildfire. His colleagues at Shonen Jump, including Torishima, played them too. One of Horii’s friends even started up a Wizardry club.
Therefore, Horii had expressed an interest to Chida about making a game like that — an RPG for the computer. Much like text adventures had inspired him to make Portopia, his new interest in RPGs had him eager to extend his story writing talents in a new direction. Chida, however, felt this was too extensive a project, and asked him to try something else first.
medium.com
No one is safe in DQ, bitch.
Your dog ain't safe, your girl ain't safe, that frog ain't safe, that gnome ain't safe, the villain ain't even safe.
>Do your research, it's all true
>Source: Bro just trust me, it's all true! Every word!
That's not what we asked. We asked for some proof.
Also I don't get the rest of your post. I think you meant to reply to another post, or you're just posting irrelevant information. Either way, I don't care about it.
SaGabro who is that guy with the huge headdress? He's extremely cute and I want to play his game. I've played a lot of the games in this franchise but I'm not familiar with him.
IF I WANT TO GET INTO DRAGON QUEST WHICH ONES ARE THE BEST. I DONT KNOW WHERE TO START
He's right about the graphics though. I think one thing that always drew me to classic FF at least from the SNES era was the tasteful aesthetics and graphical detail.
FF4 didn't look flashy or obnoxious, but it looked refined and expensive. Just as a simple example, almost every overworld or screen has some kind of animated background tile, whether it's a small torch in a wall sconce or moving ripples in water tiles. Even screens with no animation (apart from sprites) have subtle use of color that results in a distinctive and often beautiful look. Everything is tasteful but detailed. In battle everything moves smoothly, animations are great and sound effects are great. Even the "enemy dies" animation and sound effect is cool.
If you look at SNES DQ5 and FF4 side-by-side, it's just not even close. Final Fantasy was in different league graphically at that time.
XI DUDE SERIOUSLY
>ff6
>good
end this meme please
1 is the best, then go up sequentially.
Also acceptable: 4, 8, and 11. Best versions of 1-6 are the mobile versions (shockingly). Best version of 8 is 3DS. Best version of 11 is going to be Switch when it comes out.
>1UP: When you were brought over to work on Final Fantasy, what role did you play in the development of the original game? How did your love of board games and other video games help shape the work you did there?
>AK: Initially, talking about the genesis of the whole Final Fantasy franchise... [Hironobu] Sakaguchi said, with the first one, "Let's make an RPG." I'm a little foggy on just how much Dragon Quest influenced that decision, but the one thing you can say for certain was that when Dragon Quest came out, it proved to this country that RPGs could sell. Mr. Sakaguchi had wanted to make an RPG long before that, but he couldn't get permission from the company, because the company said, "Well, we're not sure that will sell." But with Dragon Quest proving that a game like that could be successful, we were finally able to get that going. It all started with that.
>We were all big fans of Wizardry and Ultima back then. Even though Dragon Quest had come out, in our minds, there still wasn't anything quite comparable to Ultima or Wizardry. That's the kind of game that Sakaguchi and Hiromichi Tanaka and I were interested in. As far as my role in the game went, I was mainly in charge of the battle system and battle sequences. For that, I tried to make it as close to Dungeons & Dragons as possible. That was my goal.
web.archive.org
Gooch always wanted to make an RPG but the company wouldn't approve funds because they weren't confident an RPG would sell, then DQ came out and confirmed to them RPG can sell
Saro did nothing wrong
-Party members don't get as much development or interesting arcs as characters from other DQ games.
-Nevan literally has no point in the story aside from taking you to his village to get the ship.
-The dual world mechanic is annoying, most quests making you switch worlds at least once, if not multiple times.
-You always reach max level on a job when you're in the world that doesn't have the Dharma Temple.
-Story repeats.
-Despite getting the boat, 3/4 the continents are blocked until you get the bed, making sailing kind of pointless. Yet you still have to sail a ton in this game.
-Everything the hero was fighting for becomes invalidated by the ending. Both your sister and Barbara are stuck in the dream world while you're in the real world.
Despite all these negatives, I don't think the game is bad. It's just weak when compared to other DQ games. If they had done more with the characters and had a little better polish on the dual world mechanics, then it would have been fine. But that's basically what Dragon Quest VII is.
>Best version of 11 is going to be Switch when it comes out.
lmao
Shadowbringers brought back what was missing from FF after all these years. Best FF story since 9
>DQ drone in denial
what else is new, no wonder your shitty game bombs in the west
Yeah, we called that out earlier. We made jokes about "Dude my dad works at Nintendo and everything". We want actual proof of his statements that he TOTALLY thought of it first, just didn't capitalize on it.
>They did nothing but copy the idea of a game that already existed and then implement it in their own way.
They still do it, besides, sometime they did something actually originally, Thexder comes to mind.
That's Hector from Romancing SaGa 2, and it's his hair, not a headdress.
you mean 15
He lost Rosary. He did EVERYTHING wrong.
>The plot and the characters are so generic and they do take themselves too seriesly which makes their dialog comes off so annoying.
You didn't play FF5.
Play 1 SNES/GBC.
It's like 8 hours long.
>DQ stories
>Some random kid is the hero of legend
Half the DQ games don't do this, precisely because they don't want it to become formulaic. A couple games, you're literally not the hero and someone else on your party is. In some other games, you become the hero through hard work and effort. And in the best game, you're just some orphan who doesn't know he's royalty. But you being royal doesn't have any point in the story. You defeat the evil and get the girl entirely on your own merits, only finding out your royalty after the fact.
>FF Stories
>Some random kid is having a normal life
Literally the opposite. You're usually some special snowflake like a prince or an esper or a super solider. And someone is trying to kill you. And then the story pulls a bullshit plot twist halfway through and takes the story in a totally new direction, making everything before pointless.
Are all DQ drones this illiterate? Kawazu literally says Sakaguchi had been wanting to do his RPG since long before DQ1 released but the company wouldn't give him permission because they weren't confident that a Japanese RPG would sell, after DQ proved Japanese RPG can sell that is when FF1 got greenlit by the higher ups, he literally says it was something Sakaguchi had been wanting to do since long before DQ.
>dq games
>not formulatic
lol?
dq games have objectively the worst stories and characters in any rpg ever
imagine defending the cookie cutter unmemorable dogshit that is DQ "story"
>FF4 didn't look flashy or obnoxious, but it looked refined and expensive.
No it didn't. It looked like an NES RPG with slightly better textures. The sprites, in battle models and everything else looked bad even for a game of its time. And even when they got up to Final Fantasy VI, it had the same problem. Games like Mana or Gaia or others looked a lot better. What made the FF games stand out what story and music. And the story stood out in a negative way, being so convoluted and overdone. Especially IV, which uses literally every overdone trope and cliche in storytelling. Especially character deaths and red herrings.
every dq is exactly the same game
they all have the same looking setting, even the spinoffs
dq is just bad
>all these DQtards trying to justify playing the same game over and over again but with just a different coat of paint
Brainlet overload
Amazing counter arguments. It totally sounds like you've played the games and know what you're talking about.
To be fair, FFfags are just as braindead.
he literally just said how they're not
ドラクエ
FF today is just a mess in every respect. Plot, gameplay, character designs, it's all shit.
Kingsglaive was a fun movie though.
FF4 was originally a NES RPG FF spinoff that was quickly updated for SNES to become FF4 instead
Secret of Mana was the original FF4, seriously. At some point they changed the original FF4 into being Secret of Mana instead of FF4, and the NES FF spinoff got moved to SNES, they updated whatever sprites they had to higher SNES palettes and it became the actual FF4
Discussion started off okay. Now it's just going to shitflinging. Sasuga Yea Forums
based
I've played them all, they're all the same medieval fantasy dogshit
>The sprites, in battle models and everything else looked bad even for a game of its time.
Must be why the graphics have always been praised to hell and back, especially in FFVI's case.
>Games like Mana or Gaia or others looked a lot better
SD started to look good with 3 and Illusion of Gaia was a discount SD for most people, not to mention both of those are ARPGs.
>Are all DQ drones this illiterate?
The problem isn't that I didn't believe the interview existed, the problem is with occam's razor.
Which has historically been proven to happen more often?
1. Someone sees a "new big thing" take off and decides to copy its style
or
2. A guy becomes intimately familiar with a game series that never released in Japan until the year of Dragon Quest, creates a design document to create a similar game except with a ton of concepts in it that were first, "coincidentally", implemented by Dragon Quest, then is held back from creating this new game which is TOTALLY different just coincidentally not different until well after the success of the second game.
Which to you sounds more believable? You'd have to be a fool to believe this wholesale without any proof of the design documents. Fuck, even Yuji Horii had to detail how he first ran across the Western-made games at the time because they were almost impossible to get in Japan. This is an AWFUL lot of coincidences, especially when the interview you quote has the guy sweating bullets and "not remembering" how much influence Dragon Quest had at the time.
>Half the DQ games don't do this
Fuck it, let's break it down.
>1
"Oi guv, your ancestor was a badass, can you help out?"
"OK but I'm gonna take a bunch of money and start a kingdom when it's done."
>2
"Son, I think uncle Moonbrooke is in trouble based on this dying guard, take your cousin and check."
"Oka-oh my god Uncle Moonbrooke is dead. Let's go end cults forever."
>3
"Oi guv ur dad's a badass."
"Thanks."
"Oi guv ur a badass."
"Thanks."
>4
"You are the legendary hOH MY GOD EVERYONE IS FUCKING DEAD."
>5
"You are the legendary he-oh fuck the bad guys know oh god oh shit. Wait. Are you sure you're the hero?"
>6
"loldreams"
>7
"Time travel's a bitch, guess who's a pirate."
>8
"I can't believe you're the single luckiest rando to ever live. Except you've got special blood but you're not THAT special. "
>9
"Have these souls on my desk by Monday."
>10
Literally OC whatever the fuck you want.
>11
The only honest to god chosen one in the series since 4.
It was rather naive of you to think that would last forever in Yea Forums's current state especially
For me it’s dq 8 and ff 12
>they all have the same looking setting, even the spinoffs
Dragon Quest I-III - Medieval
Dragon Quest IV-VI - Renaissance
Dragon Quest VII and on - Victorian/Romantic era
Dragon Quest Monsters and Builders - Extensions of existing DQ games and uses their setting.
Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - Modern setting.
Dragon Quest Swords - Renaissance setting.
Dragon Quest Slime no Mori Mori - Crazy shit like mechs, lasers and modern buildings but with only monsters so who even knows.
The interview proves you wrong
Ultima and Wizardry inspired BOTH DQ and FF
Sakaguchi literally said he intentionally tried to nake FF1 not like DQ since by that point DQ3 had just come out
Between those two, Final Fantasy. I'm not really a big fan of the series, but I did enjoy a few of them, and even the ones I dislike often have some interesting and unique mechanics. I respect that the developers have some ambition and are willing to try new things.
Dragon Quest just has nothing going for it. Almost every game in the series has poor combat, a bland world that is no fun at all to explore, an excuse plot that may as well not even exist, etc. Though they're minor complaints, I also dislike all of the character designs, and I think the music is pretty forgettable in the more modern entries.
Sure thing, cope.
>The interview proves you wrong
It literally doesn't, that's the problem. The interview is a guy just stating "Yeah I totally had that same idea and played those same games that were super hard to get in Japan at the time. Totally".
Show me the design documents that prove his statements.
>Sakaguchi literally said he intentionally tried to nake FF1 not like DQ since by that point DQ3 had just come out
OOOooooh, he covered his tracks? WELL, that just changes EVERYthing, now donnit?
they're all generic medieval fantasy that look identical and sound identical and play identical
Wonder if 12 is gonna go gothic.
>Must be why the graphics have always been praised to hell and back
Have you looked at the original SNES FFIV in the last 10 years? Not the dolled up PS1/GBA versions, the real deal. It does not look very advanced or praiseworthy graphically.
dilate
Have sex, kid.
It proves you wrong DQ drone, cope.
I see the parrots have arrived. Making all these sweeping statements that only prove how they know nothing about the series.
t. gamer
Sure.
5, 8 or 3
>guy posts examples proving they're not all medieval
>s-shut up they're all medieval!
Every Dragon Quest thread this idiot appears.
>"I totally was gonna make an RPG way before DQ trust me bro!"
something doesn't seem right I'd believe it more if I saw proof like concept art or something
>plantfag still SEETHING
lmao
FF's have gotten worse while DQ is consistently good.
I'd probably take DQ today.
Not really his fault. DQ4 is weird in how they paint the humans as pretty damn awful and Saro just completely passed off for good reason. Yet you are just going to talk to god dragon to kill Saro and do nothing else to the people that killed Rose.
IX-XI have breached those erasure and had some late 1800s architecture
now compare to the sheer variety of actual diverse settings across FF games
The Victorian era is the mid-late 1800s.
SMT is better than both. Hell, Persona is better.
cope
It was fun while it lasted let's pack it up boys
>It does not look very advanced or praiseworthy graphically.
Of course it doesn't if you use 2019 standards on 1991 games.
You didn't post any examples, you just pretended they aren't medieval fantasy trash
Oh, hey, there's a better version of that guide out that /vg/ made. Might want to spread this around instead of that one.
Mobile should be considered for IV, even if it has those horrible controls.
user, you know I didn't say that.
the absolute state of dq fag denial
dq has never been good while only ff13 and vanilla 14 were bad
says the contrarian
Seethe harder, tranny.
Come ON now
does Dragon Quest have a barry?
>The sprites, in battle models and everything else looked bad even for a game of its time.
No, they didn't. They were small, but even then not smaller than many games. In fact you can tell they went the extra mile with compression techniques to enable all the animations for the in-battle sprites. Then you have the monster sprites and spell animations. The animations were absolutely top-tier. In some ways, despite the technical limitations I think the Final Fantasy IV animations are even better than V and VI.
Check out the FF4 nuke animation. The Ice-3 animation. Zeromus's big-bang animation. They are all awesome. Nuke builds tension and releases in an explosion with just a few pixels and sound effects. Ice-3 is like a major impact of icicles falling on your head. Big Bang is oh shit here it comes and the whole screen lights up.
What other games were actually out in 1991 or hell even 1992? A Link to the Past? Dragon Quest V? So Castlevania IV is another great-looking game but there you have just a single protagonist sprite to animate and then enemies in a platform game. There are definitely some Genesis games that look amazing but Phantasy Star 2 is the only competitive RPG. And that one does look good but has a very different, very anime style.
>Smashtards see the thread and start posting
>Thread goes to shit
/SSB/ when?
But he has no proof to show he was planning to make an RPG way before DQ why would I take him at his word? Like I said if I saw some art or rough draft then I'd believe him.
>dq11 only sold 600k outside of Japan
oh no no NOOOOOO
The ultimate theme of 4 is forgiveness. You're not out for revenge, you're stopping Psaro from causing more mayhem and giving him mercy. Rosary's death is a tragedy, but lashing out and hunting down those responsible won't solve anything, just incite more unquenchable hate like Psaro's. The game even includes Healie to illustrate that he wasn't damned by circumstance, he chose to become this.
It's the throughline of all the stories: revenge isn't satisfying, forgiveness must be earned but is something we need to be willing to give, and we need to understand that even the most vile, awful monsters are people who suffer.
It's a shockingly mature story for the Famicom.
and also a dragovian that's completely immune to curses, that's why you're alive in the first place
I think the only game in which you're a literal who is VII unless I missed something or forgot about it
says the dq tranny
i wanted the 3DS version. Still waiting
Yeah but I always consider the very tail end a different thing. That's on me, though. Point is, the schools and such tend to come from a later period than the towns and castles.
the dancing girls storyline gives the first hints on this. The prologue sets it up.
Final Fantasy I-V - Medieval/Renaissance
Final Fantasy VI - Victorian/Romantic
Final Fantasy VII - All over the place, doesn't have one consistent style. One city is cyberpunk, the next is steampunk, the next is Renaissance. If you think more is better, then this game has it.
Final Fantasy VIII - Idealized Sci Fi future with some contemporary mixing
Final Fantasy IX - Back to Renaissance
Final Fantasy X - Chrono Cross clone
Final Fantasy XI - Back to Medieval
Final Fantasy XII - Victorian/Romantic Era
Final Fantasy XIII - Back to idealized SciFi future but with a dystopia outside the Cocoon
Final Fantasy XIV - Back to Renaissance
Final Fantasy XV - Mix of futuristic, contemporary and Renaissance
If anything, Final Fantasy goes back to the old style just as much as Dragon Quest. And tries new stuff...just like Dragon Quest spin offs do.
Also, more variety =/= better setting. Just look at the FF fanbase who complain about too much SciFi and not enough fantasy.
You're getting your 2D on Switch, and 3DS 3D was bad aside from all armor being viewable.
So where the fuck are these documents?
>Games like Mana or Gaia or others looked a lot better.
Secret of Mana came out two (2) years after Final Fantasy IV, and has a very different style and aesthetic (much more cartoony and kid-looking).
Illusion of Gaia is three (3) years after Final Fantasy IV. Soul Blazer is much closer to FF4, and doesn't look nearly as good.
Although you seem to be someone who thinks "bigger sprites = better" so maybe you actually think Soul Blazer looks better than FF4 on that reason alone. That just means you have shit taste.
good. DQ is best enjoyed in top down 2D
>Dragon Quest IV-VI - Renaissance
>Dragon Quest VII and on - Victorian/Romantic era
>Dragon Quest Monsters and Builders - Extensions of existing DQ games and uses their setting.
>Dragon Quest Monsters Joker - Modern setting.
>Dragon Quest Swords - Renaissance setting.
>Dragon Quest Slime no Mori Mori - Crazy shit like mechs, lasers and modern buildings but with only monsters so who even knows.
Learn 2 red
Dragon Quest is more consistently good than FF, but when FF IS good it hits it out of the ball park.
There's hints of it all the way back in Ragnar's chapter. Torneko gets a bit of it too, just from a different perspective (he's the one earning forgiveness). I think Alena's chapter is the only one that doesn't touch on the game's themes.
Yeah he's the DQ avatarposter guy that always says stuff like "dq would sell better than ff in the west if it had marketting!", while ignoring the ton of marketting DQ does get
>this denial
I like this post.
Why not both?
>Final Fantasy XII - Victorian/Romantic Era
It's more Golden Islamic with some Gothic and the general pseudoSci-Fi/magic slammed into it.
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about
Secret of Mana was originally FF4
So what.
All wrong, it is generic medieval fantasy all round
Damn last (you) from me then I thought you were serious. Kinda embarrassed now for taking you seriously.
All I can say is they really weren't that great. Your argument is listing a bunch of stuff, but it's still entirely subjective if those are good or not.
>What other games were actually out in 1991 or hell even 1992? A Link to the Past? Dragon Quest V? So Castlevania IV is another great-looking game but there you have just a single protagonist sprite to animate and then enemies in a platform game. There are definitely some Genesis games that look amazing but Phantasy Star 2 is the only competitive RPG. And that one does look good but has a very different, very anime style.
But we're only talking about the graphics. FFIV did have limitations. But very few kids back in the SNES days would know about that. They'd just look at FFIV and compare it to Castlevania IV or Mario World and say FFIV looks worse. Which it does. Hindsight doesn't change this.
Oh wait I just read that you considered FFVI "Victorian/Romantic", which is odd. What do you consider Victorian-Romantic? Also, LOL at calling the outside of the Coccoon a dystopia.
The FF4 we got was originally a NES game that was ported to SNES and had the sprites redone from 8bit to 16bit versions, which is why it looks more "NES" like
Secret of Mana was the original FF4 they were making
Fair enough. Though it's European influences are very late 1800s/early 1900s.
Nice counter points. You totally proved me wrong.
>dq fag this hard in denial
>posts some random 3ds game
>not even an actual dq
>Final Fantasy X - Chrono Cross clone
This is an insult to CC.
FF6 is steampunk you retard
The steam era started in the Victorian era, doofus. And the outside of cocoon is a destroyed world reclaimed by nature. If you want to call it post apocalyptic instead, go ahead.
they're both beach generation games
How am I being contrarian? How are FF or DQ better JRGPs than SMT or Persona?
Perfectly fair.
you have shit taste, sorry
>They'd just look at FFIV and compare it to Castlevania IV or Mario World and say FFIV looks worse. Which it does. Hindsight doesn't change this.
No, they wouldn't. I know, I was there. Final Fantasy IV is a beautiful game. Yes that is subjective, sort of. Although if I had time I absolutely could explain a lot of it in objective terms.
And yes, Final Fantasy IV, the original SNES version, is still a beautiful, well-animated game today. Seriously, just watch some DQ5 gameplay on youtube. Then watch some Final Fantasy 4 gameplay. If you come out of that thinking that FF4 doesn't just blow DQ5 out of the water I really have nothing else to say you just don't understand aesthetics or gameplay graphics/animation at all.
Nope, you're wrong.
no only oerba is destroyed and it's just left in ruins, the roads are still there, the houses still there, its not even overgrown on oerba either
gran pulse and the rest of cocoon was always nature
how is your high school simulator and shitty non story game better?
>No, they wouldn't. I know, I was there.
I was there too. No one was praising FFIV for its graphics. In fact, a common review for it was "the graphics may look dated, but don't let it distract from everything else which is amazing."
>And yes, Final Fantasy IV, the original SNES version, is still a beautiful, well-animated game today. Seriously, just watch some DQ5 gameplay on youtube. Then watch some Final Fantasy 4 gameplay. If you come out of that thinking that FF4 doesn't just blow DQ5 out of the water I really have nothing else to say you just don't understand aesthetics or gameplay graphics/animation at all.
But why are you only able to compare FFIV to DQV? No one is claiming DQV on SNES had great graphics. Because like FFIV, the graphics weren't the focus. Story was.
While I get that I just feel like the shithead that beat Rose until Saro locked her up for protection until they finally got to her to kill her are fine to go about their business just seem kind of off.
At first I was gonna say ehn, but you're right, like half of FFX's zones are garbage and unrelated to the art direction of the rest of the game.
nope
it's all generic medieval fantasy shit
Then the story's working as intended.
Why do you think he went ballistic? It isn't fair at all.
Again, so what?
FF4 is a really great-looking game and was excellent by the standards of all other games on the SNES at the time, to the point that a screenshot of the game in a catalog would stand out vs all the other generic games. FF4 does NOT look like a NES game. It looks like an early SNES game, and a really nice-looking one at that.
All that behind-the-scenes stuff is a curiosity. You don't really know how much that influenced ultimate end-product that got released. FF5 uses similar style to FF4, for example.
Also I wonder how your dad just for from a lightning bolt. You would think that was from god but no one in heaven says a word about it
Better gameplay than both of them, for one. Actual difficulty, as in, bosses that require more thought than grinding. Demon recruiting and fusioning.
>non-story
Yeah, the apocalypse and philosophical quandries the player is asked don't hold a candle to generic anime villains and misunderstood faggots/faggots that are evil for the sake of being evil. There is no sense of nuance in any FF or DQ story. Persona has better written characters than any of them too.
Man I dunno, it's been a while since I played and the DS translation's really bad.
>Persona has better written characters
?
>turn based
>gameplay
Okay.
there isn't a single known let alone memorable SMT character
all people know are jack frost because of hee hoo meme for kids
the right is
Would DQ be the JRPG it is today, without Akira's Toriyama art ?
doubt it.
at least FF tries some different art from time to time
but DQ is always the same art that whoevers sees it goes "this looks like dragon ball wtf"
but Akira art is so predictable, every game has a gohan,goku's hair, and trunks, and some bulma character
I recently played the NES version so a good bit is still in my memory
>posts another non main DQ game that itself only has light tech elements
It's all medieval fantasy shit
Didn't say it was as good as Chrono Cross. Just obviously taking massive influence from it.
Even with Toriyama's art it failed to penetrate the west for mainstream appeal, people in the west only like Toriyama for DBZ, not DQ
demifiend
stephen hawking
lucifer
demonica dude
>I was there too. No one was praising FFIV for its graphics. In fact, a common review
You are clearly larping because nobody really took game reviews seriously then.
>But why are you only able to compare FFIV to DQV?
This post started the discussion: > Because like FFIV, the graphics weren't the focus. Story was.
Complete and utter bullshit god I hate storyfags. Yes the game had a story and it was an important part of the game. But still it only takes up like 5%-10% of the gameplay time. Final Fantasy IV innovated the ATB system, something completely unique to Final Fantasy and (in addition to its graphics) a HUGE thing that set it apart from competitors at the time. FF4 combat was fast-paced and smooth, despite being a turn-based RPG combat system based on stats and random numbers.
Who?
Who?
Who?
Who?
>hey everyone look at me I'm a complete retard!
Have a (you)
FF because Hero is a broken piece of shit.
>doesn't know stephen hawking
wow
>smt
>philosophy
lmao
You honestly want to call all the shit that came after FFXI gameplay? Like, whatever the fuck XV was? Turn press system and the P5 battle system are the peak of RPG combat; the former is fast and fluid, the latter is a spectacle that is amazing to watch.
>b-but that's just an exception!
>spin off games don't count!
>posts an image of a game that is clearly more of a late 1800s design, not medieval
wow cant believe hitler was the iconic character invented by persona devs
>Would DQ be the JRPG it is today, without Akira's Toriyama art ?
>doubt it.
>at least FF tries some different art from time to time
Early Final Fantasy art and character design was all Yoshitaka Amano. He was a major aesthetic influence on the franchise and without him it might not have been as successful either.
Honestly both are pretty *YAWN* nowdays, though I haven't played DQ11 but it is a very standard story looks like
Xenoblade Chronicles and the Tales series are my preferred JRPG series right now to watch for
I hope they don't fuck up Final Fantasy 16 whenever that comes out...or the FF7 remake but I don't have a PS4 at this moment
tirn based is the anti thesis of gameplay
It's all generic medieval fantasy shit
>You are clearly larping because nobody really took game reviews seriously then.
People relied on reviews more back then than they do now. Because most people first heard of the games in gaming magazines or reviews. They didn't have internet access and years of youtube videos to watch.
>Complete and utter bullshit god I hate storyfags. Yes the game had a story and it was an important part of the game. But still it only takes up like 5%-10% of the gameplay time. Final Fantasy IV innovated the ATB system, something completely unique to Final Fantasy and (in addition to its graphics) a HUGE thing that set it apart from competitors at the time. FF4 combat was fast-paced and smooth, despite being a turn-based RPG combat system based on stats and random numbers.
Final Fantasy IV is so focused on story that they have a dozen "deaths" and red herring plot twists that overtake gameplay. I'm not a storyfag. I actually hate most FF games precisely because the story and graphics are more of a focus than gameplay and flow. FFIV is one of the worst at this.
>medieval
man you really love just tossing that word around
Steampunk is Victorian/Romantic dumbass
They didnt even use Amano art for FF1, 4 or 6 in the west
FF7 was the first FF in the west to use the Amano logo, also besides that amano only did promo art for them mainly in Japan and only did monster designs for ff1-4 and some in 5-6 which were mainly Nomura's designs
no one is gonna give a shit about Joker a year from now, everyone already doesn't give a shit about Shulk, and DQ had to get 4 skins because each rep is less than half a character in terms of importance
it turns out no one gives a shit about JRPG protags, who would have thought
>if I get the last post in, that means it comes true!
Damn, Dragon Quest clothing and building designs sure are ahead of their time for a 1200s setting.
It's all generic medieval fantasy shit
Steampunk is Steampunk
DQ is maximum comfy
>Final Fantasy IV is so focused on story that they have a dozen "deaths" and red herring plot twists that overtake gameplay.
You have that backwards the "deaths" are forced into the story so they can keep mixing up the party and giving the player different combinations and scenarios. Jesus christ you should really fucking play the games you post shit about. Over 90% of FF4 is gameplay-focused.
is Barry shitposting again
just not the bad ones like from those games
>it turns out no one gives a shit about JRPG protags
>endless threads bitching about Hero
>endless threads bitching about Fire Emblem
>Mother fans won't shut up about not getting Mother 3
>Pokemon is still the best selling series in the world
DQ brings a smile to my face and makes me genuinely warm and fuzzy inside.
FF makes me cringe.
Which SaGa games should I play? Downloaded SaGa 2 remake for the ds, translated of course.
Why is she SO FUCKING SMUG
>medieval fantasy isnt allowed to have anachronistic shit here and there which all fall into the fantasy element
How? And answer the question: are you saying all the shit after FFXI is "gameplay," let alone good gameplay? Answer me.
Imagine “playing” JRPGs. They’re only above Sony’s movie games.
>They didnt even use Amano art for FF1, 4 or 6 in the west
He designed the characters. Also the in-game portraits are identical in the SNES and Super Famicom versions of FF4 and FF6 not sure what you are talking about.
It's true they didn't use Amano art to market the game though, I'll give you that. Toriyama art was used to market CT, for example (and lack of it in Chrono Cross is probably one of the major reasons that game wasn't as successful)
FF1 is medieval fantasy and has robots and shit too
dq having them doesn't make it not medieval fantasy
In no order:
Romancing SaGa 2
SaGa Frontier 1/2
Romancing SaGa 3 and Scarlet Grace when they come over here
because she just stole my heart
turn based is not gameplay
its dvd menu tier shit
>You have that backwards the "deaths" are forced into the story so they can keep mixing up the party and giving the player different combinations and scenarios.
No you have that backwards. They keep "killing" party members to free up a slot, so they can bring in someone else who has plot relevance. They're not doing it for variety of gameplay, but to allow for a plot relevant character to be in the party when necessary. This is what leads to totally needless and hilarious "death" scenes like Yang and Cid. They were just space fillers until a plot relevant character came back.
And all of it was unnecessary since earlier RPGs like Dragon Quest IV had already had features that let you swap out party members as needed, without having to kill them. But because story and tone is so much of the focus in Final Fantasy, they decided to have reasons for party members leaving instead of just swapping them out for story cutscenes. Hence, story overtakes gameplay.
Thanks user.
No he didn't, Koichi Ishii and Kazuko Shibuya did
Amano didn't design a single FF character, all his artwork was made after ishii and shibuya made their designs first, amano's designs were all just his interpretations of their original art and sprites which came first
>stephen hawking
Bitch Stephen's a real person, you don't get to count that.
No prob
Unlimited SaGa is also a thing but it's very divisive due to the mechanics
By the same token, a game having some medieval hold overs like clothing design or some buildings doesn't mean it's only Medieval. Especially when so much of the other stuff is Renaissance or even later. In reality, you can say Dragon Quest games have a little of everything, But the idiot in this thread is saying it's only medieval. Even when the game has futuristic floating platforms, scifi magic puzzles or Victorian era cathedrals.
>no argument
You're not only a retard, you're also a coward.
Start with that, it's a good way to get accustomed to the very basics in terms of combat system and character building, it's also completely linear and a pretty short and easy game all around.
SaGa 3 DS is also a good remake and will be nice to play after 2, especially since it mixes up the remastered mechanics a bit by going even a bit deeper into the modern game mechanics with proper sparking and a few retooled mechanics from RS1.
From there, go into either Frontier or Romancing SaGa 3, they'll ease you into the typical non linear progression and multiple MC based campaigns without putting too much pressure in terms of difficulty.
>everyone already doesn't give a shit about Shulk
I give a shit about Shulk.
>Romancing SaGa 2
How's the pc port?
medieval fantasy =/= medieval
turn based is poo poo
Best version of the game available.
Very slight delay when walking around due to Square sucking at ports but it's the best version
Fucking sad, dude. You've watered down your argument so much it doesn't even mean anything anymore.
Great, thanks.
I've sunk 100 hours into the game and plan on playing it more.
Why are you still responding to that retard?
alternate
not the actual
ergo not, ergo steampunk is just steampunk, no need to try and pretend its anything else
Medieval fantasy is not actual medieval you fucking retard
Have fun bro
My god, this guy's a legit idiot.
A word of warning: I ran into a game-ending bug when I played through the DS version of SaGa 2 with a translation patch applied. I don't know if that's a common issue, but you might consider going with the original Gameboy version.
The games in the series I've played and enjoyed are SaGa, SaGa 2, Minstrel Song, Romancing SaGa 2, Romancing SaGa 3, and SaGa Frontier. I disliked SaGa 3 and Unlimited, though I think the latter is a decent game. I just can't stand slot reels as a gameplay mechanic in any context.
>all that text just to say "no u"
You didn't even address the point you just restated all the retarded shit you already said, except dumber. FF4 is heavily focused on gameplay and very obviously designed as such. I don't know what youtube fag whose opinions you are parroting but they are retarded and you should probably stop for your own sake.
Take your meds, schizo.
Are you fucking retarded?
Medieval fantasy is medieval+fantasy, that fantasy part which includes shit like magic or anachronistic technology or monsters or ancient super civilization or robots or demons or whatever
Medieval itself it not that.
