Make double of what you needed on kikestarter

>every class that has an alignment requirement is fucked
Paladins are the most restrictive ones since they're forced to lawful good, which can be a bitch at times. I played a lawful evil monk and it was really easy to stay within the alignment, just don't pick chaotic good options all the time and you'll be fine.
From what I remember all other classes with alignment restrictions only restrict you along a single axis, for example all druids must be some kind of neutral, all barbarians must be chaotic, all monks must be lawful, but no one cares if they're good or evil.

>running a game with Yea Forumsros
Recipe for disaster.

Depends.
How much do you like DnD autism? I for one love it, so my choice is Kingmaker, but if you dislike it, go for DIV:OS2.
Alternatively, D:OS2 for sure if you have friends to play with.

>There are people voluntarily giving money to Deep Silver, a company even worse than EA

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Nice fake history. They patched the game for months and months fixing its issues on launch before even touching DLC.

Kingmaker is jank. It’s broken and buggy, unbalanced and rushed, but fun at times.

DOS:2 is just a great game.

That's bullshit, the alignment system is SUPER permissive. You can probably go against your alignment half the time and still be fine

Honestly I'd say get both, they're good games but excel at different things.
Pathfinder is more similar to a classic DnD CPRG. If you're used to Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and the like, you'll feel right at home. The game also takes something like 100+ hours to complete, has multiple endings and a OK kingdom building component. It's also one of the few games where alignments like lawful evil are actually fun to play and not all about evil=dick. You'll either like or dislike the RTWP combat, it's up to you.

DivOS2 focuses less on the background mechanics and is more upfront with it's gameplay. There's a ton of environmental interactivity, you have shit like mixing elements for status effects in battle, and the turn based combat may or may not feel better for some. The game itself is somewhat less serious than Pathfinder and you have to like Larian's kind of humor.

Totally different games to be honest.

Kingmaker is an amazing game, but only if you're into deep character class building and dice based combat, very similar to the tabletop. DOS2 is more laid-back and relaxed, requires less thought and relies on diverse combat situations rather than you building a really unique party.

The turn by turn mod makes the game interesting if you like the PnP version

>be retard
>lie on internet

I condensed your little story a bit.

Whatever you do, don’t listen to these shills, fanboys or whatever the fuck they are. I bought the game during the summer sale and it’s still buggy as shit. There might be a good game under there, but it’s hard to get to.

I don't know how familiar you are with the Pathfinder tabletop, but its players are some of the most autistic and cringey human beings on the face of this planet, let alone other TTRPGs. It doesn't help that it also has by far the largest proportion of trannies of any tabletop game.

A group of Yea Forumsirgins would be a legitimate improvement over any random group of Pathfinder players.

Tell us which bug you encountered, user.

DivOS2 focuses less on the background mechanics and is more upfront with it's gameplay. There's a ton of environmental interactivity, you have shit like mixing elements for status effects in battle, and the turn based combat may or may not feel better for some. The game itself is somewhat less serious than Pathfinder and you have to like Larian's kind of humor.

>there are actually people so fucking retarded they manage to fall out of LG alignment in this game

I thought that was more of a myth. You can do the lawful/chaotic evil choices to keep the artisans, the chaotic/neutral options to ally with certain people and not take sides and still stay Lawful good with no trouble. It takes some serious fucking effort to fall. Or just a really huge retard

I kept checking the forums every single month since release but people reported tons of gamebreaking bugs and balance problems.
Some even provided their own made patches to fix gamebreaking problems because the devs hadn't solved them after several months.

I have no idea why you people would just flat out lie because you happened to enjoy the game.
You're a gigantic close-minded delusional fanboy.

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I played a monk and never had issues maintaining a lawful alignment.

>I bought the game during the summer sale and it’s still buggy as shit.
It should be easy to tell us which bugs you've encountered, then.

>I kept checking the forums every single month since release but people reported tons of gamebreaking bugs
I feel like you're somewhat hysteric and/or don't really understand what gamebreaking actually means.

>people reported tons of gamebreaking bugs
True, with every new patch, they fixed 10 things and broke 5.
>and balance problems
Unless it was a result of said bugs (like naturam armor stacking), this is mostly players being retarded. The extra xp gains, new classes and new loot along with encounter adjustments has actually made the game quite a bit easier.

To be fair, Paladin have to be only LG, but it still takes a massive retarded to fall.

>turn by turn
Turn based battle system, user. Or just TB.

This game if anything proves to never ever trust Yea Forums.

There isn't a single amazing thing about the game, yet Yea Forums tries to tell you this. The narrative and writing is painfully terrible, the game was so fucked by bugs it makes shit like Bethesda games look polished, the game is so fucked in terms of balance that it relies extremely heavily on good RNG and very specific builds, the titular kingdom/kingmaker system is a dumpster fire, etc.

It's like you people are so in love with the concept and because it's an "underdog" game you forgive it for a mountain of issues and hack jobs.

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Played paladin and never had that problem, I guess you're just a retard.

>Not just paladins. every class that has an alignment requirement is fucked

Only if played by retards. What kind of Monk cannot remain lawful? You need to pick like 30 chaotic options to fall off, without picking any lawful options to counterbalance it. At this point, you just fail at roleplaying

Hi shills, well after my throne was stolen and recovered by still can’t receive visitors in my throne room and my save is fucking broken.

Go fix your fucking game

D:OS2 is much better for a newer player. It's easy to get into, the game's difficulty is more suitable for a newbie in these kind of games. It doesn't require good knowledge on how to build a perfect party because the choices are more simple.
Pathfinder Kingmaker is one of the hardest/unfair CRPG games I've ever played, even on normal. Things can go wrong pretty fast if you just play it on autopilot. Compared to the Infinity engines games (BG, IWD), you can autopilot all the time on those games and not worry about bullshit mechanics that will halt your progress. In Pathfinder you just sometimes meet enemies that will require you to re-memorize your spells or maybe even read up on mechanics because the boss has million AC, your characters can only hit it with natural 20 rolls and you have no clue on how to reduce AC. On top of that the game is still buggy, I just finished it. I read up on some of the biggest bugs the game had last year and those have been fixed, but there are still minor shit in the game : Some sidequests just don't progress no matter what you do, some effects stay on forever even though they should end after a save or simply running out of duration. I also had one bug where my MC would die everytime I entered a new zone, even with full hp and debuffs. Fixed it by loading up on earlier save. Also this dog corpse appeared on my kingdom map and never went away.

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>the game is so fucked in terms of balance that it relies extremely heavily on good RNG and very specific builds
I haven't played the game: the post
The only part of the game that relies on RNG is the earlygame, like the first 1-3 levels. But that's just how low level DnD is. Afterwards it's smooth sailing as long as you're not a retard. You never have to rely on very specific builds either - while it's true that you can break the game with some supreme mutt multiclass builds, they're never required to finish it.

>he game is so fucked in terms of balance that it relies extremely heavily on good RNG and very specific builds

Unless, you play on unfair, every archetype is perfectly viable. And lots of multiclass options, obviously. Same for the NPC companions. Anyone who makes this complaint either did not actually play the game or sucks ass at basic character building. It's a telltale sign.

Get D:OS2 if you've never played a real rpg before and don't plan on playing one anytime soon.

>A group of Yea Forumsirgins would be a legitimate improvement over any random group of Pathfinder players.

That's like saying this shit is better than that shit.

I have finished 3 playthroughs already, so it's plenty fixed for me. Man, I love "works on my machine"
posts.

>I don't know if they're even all that comparable, but should I get Kingmaker or D:OS2?

Pillars 2 or Original Sin 2 are the only sensible options. This game is not even remotely good. I'd rather play fucking Tides of Numenera than this shit.

>churn out DLC instead of fixing bugs
>Never lower price
factually wrong

Lol this nigga used the Lander portrait for his MC

>Pillars 2 or Original Sin 2 are the only sensible options.
>unironically suggesting Pillars 2
How to spot a fucking retard. And I loved the shit out of Pillars 1.

>In Pathfinder you just sometimes meet enemies that will require you to re-memorize your spells or maybe even read up on mechanics because the boss has million AC, your characters can only hit it with natural 20 rolls and you have no clue on how to reduce AC.

I really wonder how people who in theory went through BG1&2 and ID 1&2 say this shit.
I had to readjust spell list and equipment for every other area in those games, at least for the first playthrough.

Well that is to be expected since Pathfinder was designed as a refinement of 3.5.

Oh yeah, that got patched in late 2018, then when EE came out it reemerged.
Pretty sure it got patched again.

To be fair, I finished my first playtrough the first week the game was out. So anecdotes are just that, I guess.
I still recommend the game, it really scratched the itch left by MotB.
I also really like the setting for some reason.
Also, the characters are surprisingly memorable for how little actual interaction there is with them in the game.

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I'm very familiar with PF. I've both played and DM'd more than few campaigns. PF has a terrible community because the rules and setting are both awful and appeal to the worst kind of players. If you're not playing with friends, it's not worth playing at all. If you want to DM for strangers, you're better off picking a better system.

>A group of Yea Forumsirgins would be a legitimate improvement
A marginal improvement at best. You'll just be trading one kind of annoying social pariah for another. It's your call, though. If you want to do it, then do it. I just wanted to give you a fair warning. Good luck.

The chaotic good healing was because the guy you healed was telling you to let him die.

There is far more banter than you think in the game, problem is it requires very specific triggers of 2 or 3 party members with you at the time.

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>thinks pillars 2 is worse than pillars 1 and kingmaker
I'm sorry, must be hard living with brain damage.

Kek, she's a complete dum-dum, no wonder that autistic spammer loves her.

Half the countries/areas in Golarion are generic adventure setpieces though. Not sure how they encourage anything.

t. gay fish lover

>do a solo run
>never have to deal with their stupid banter again
>also get tons of gold for BP
Only thing that sucks is that I don't get to take Nok Nok along and still have to bring them if I want to do their quests.

9 int is almost average, do not bully her.

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Yeah, I'm aware.
I was more referring to the average amount of dialogue you are bound to see in any single playtrough.

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>>never have to deal with their stupid banter again
You are not a man of culture

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3rd edition is shit, races are either boring and garbage, or mildly interesting and incredibly broken. The setting books are retardedly out of sync in terms of power level, none of the martials are fun to play unless you intentionally gimp the encounters or get rid of tier 1's, there's no way for a gish to keep up with pure casters, etc. Pathfinder is better in every way.

Not to mention camp banter. 6 hours of recorded dialogue, and until EE, you could only see it if you rested inside a map, not at rest points or the world map. Weird decision

>Not to mention camp banter. 6 hours of recorded dialogue, and until EE
Yeah, that was a nice improvement.

The problem is that 3/3.5 was so fucking extremely bloated.
PF and DnD 5E fix that.

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>bloated
What do you mean? 732 classes isn't bloated!

So this game is the first true successor of Baldur's gate?

Ah, the delicious sounds of gitgut, the music for my ears.

baldur's gate 2 is the successor to baldur's gate

Yes.

bought this on sale and currently 50 hrs in, man it's really tedious especially for someone who knows nothing about D&D. Can't wait to finish it desu...

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No, you're a dumb retard.

This game is most definitely the best cRPG of the decade.

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>real time with pause
I wish this stayed dead and buried in the early 00s like it deserved to

There's a turn-based mod, works really well and makes initiative rolls actually meaningful.

I hate it though.

>healing someone is good but not necessarily lawful
Healing someone is lawful but not necessarily good. Even the death row faggots get medical help.

It's hard to make comparisons since they're pretty different products at the end of the day, so to make a quick rundown.

>Kingmaker
+Based on actual tabletop, Pathfinder is especially good if you happen to like D&D based games
+Better core system all around even though Pathfinder is just as broken as D&D proper, if not more
+Better and more content
+More OC companions
+More "challenging"
+No shitty equipment scaling that fucks up the economy and renders most of your equipment useless, let alone pseudo Diablo tier loot.
+Better/more gameplay related mods
+Can play it Turn based (and does TB far better than D:OS somehow)
+Much more indepth character customization even though it's D&D
+Roleplaying elements are actually there and somewhat matter instead of being just a bunch of speech options that do nothing
+More indepth difficulty option

>D:OS 2
+Better graphics
+Better visual options with mods
+More streamlined
+More polished
+Multiple main characters you can play as with their campaigns kinda like SaGa games (although done worse), and the option to play as OC too
+Actually playable without fearing massive Unity memory leaks or various bugs
+Doesn't run like total shit even when your PC is being fried by Necrofire
+Somewhat more orthodox ability design at times (Thieves in KM don't actually steal for instance)
+Isn't plagued by a gorillion of bugs, many of which are still gamebreaking
+About half of Kingmaker in content, good if you want something short to play or speedrun
+Very easy to get through even at Tactician, much better for casual play, especially with friends
+Doesn't have a shitty management minigame nobody wanted or liked
+Online multiplayer
+Official campaign editor in the NWN fashion (which alas nobody uses, but still)

Both have common problems, like the usual WRPG atrocious writing, contradictory roleplaying options, massive design oversights, craters in general game design, awful music, mostly linear progression and so on.

You're only half way through and when you hit The House of the Edge of Fun you will most likely uninstall the game.

thanks for reminding I bought this trash right after playing through original sin 2. Night and fucking day

>bloated
>I don't have creativity to make unlimited combinations of classes
>i rather play the dumbed down version of the game made for the mass public with sole intent of money not quality

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Discord for voice and Tabletop Simulator for everything else works kind of ok. Been doing that with my IRL group ever since one of those lovely idiots moved so far getting together got a bit hard.

this game is an absolute shitshow of bugs, bad encounters, bad decisions and horrible kingdom build mechanic that only gets in your way
get Baldur's Gate, Temple of Elemental Evil (with circle of the eight mod tho) or Icewind Dale for a better D&D style experience
Or even Arcanum that pops in around here from time to time, its different but very good too

>Temple of Elemental Evil
That was even buggier than Kingmaker and never got official fixes. I'm assuming the mod unfucks it?
Love the narrator in that game tho. 10/10.

>Awful music
I mean sure, most of it is not memorable bute come on:
youtube.com/watch?v=byxTuIO6XT0

Shit this looks interesting because I hate RTWP, could anyone who used this mod report on how good it is?

nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/109

>>I don't have creativity to make unlimited combinations of classes
>Pathfinder
>Creativity
Pathfinder is literally, literally designed against multiclassing and actual customization, most classes are pointless when multiclassed, and when you "multiclass" in PF it means taking a 1 or 2 level dip in another class for those rare classes that don't get all their good stuff at level 18-20.
Granted, D&D has hardly ever been about actual customization, but Pathfinder is notorious for that, not to mention most of the classes/archetypes in Kingmaker are useless trash, made even worse by the arbitrary lack of certain feats which make entire classes useless (looking at you, Kinetic Knight), inclusion of certain classes that make others completely useless(Slayer VS Fighter or Magus VS EK), the lack or reworking of basic mechanics that go against classes/archetypes (lack of scribe scrolls in a game with Scroll Savant or the fact Sneak Attack is broken due to the broken flanking) or the plain bad choice of archetypes that have never been good (Arcane Bomber LMFAO)

Still better than D:OS, where you just lazily dump everything in one or two stats and get whatever with no rhyme or reason let alone balance, but PF is hardly about the customization, it's a lot more team geared, as in make a good squad rather than good, original characters.

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Can you make fighter/mage multiclass like BG2 to own everything?

Neg. Some multiclasses work out alright, but fighter/anything or even pure fighter in Pathfinder is a complete waste. Gotta remember this is a ruleset designed by people who thought DnD 3e casters were too weak and fighters too strong.

No, Fighter is largely shit in Kingmaker unless you take the Aldori Defender archetype which makes it passable(You'll still be better off taking ANYTHING other Fighter either way unless you plan to maybe multiclass Aldori Defender into Swordlord for some RP thematic reason), and if you want a Gish there's the entire Magus Class, you DO NOT multiclass for a proper Gish unless you want to do an Arcane Trickster build, which is one of the very few examples of proper multiclassing.
Hell, you'll probably have a better Gish by picking a Draconic Sorcerer and multiclassing into Dragon Disciple by pumping a few DEX based Martial feats rather than doing anything with fighter, and it's still a subpar build compared to a pure Sorcerer.

Aliments are not fragile.
You can occasionally make chaotic and neutral and even non good decisions and still stay lawful good.
Also game is free of most bugs by now.
Beat it 1 month ago and cant recall a single major or even minor bug.
Other than sometimes inventory items miss-aligning outside of item slots in the inventory screen but this has no affect on the game or game-play and you wont lose any of them.
You can also buy a cheap item that resets your aliment to the starting one as a sin absolve scroll.

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>DnD 3e casters were too weak and fighters too strong
What the fuck?

Remember how games like TOEE, Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM set the golden standard for tactical combat and were never repeated? Instead the genre crumbled into inferior nonsense to the point where wRPG 'renaissance' was falsified with high-profile RtWP releases (while ignoring contemporary classics like Underrail and Age of Decadence)?

i was not talking about the game, i think its trash
i play 3rd edition with its hundreds of books and classes, presti classes, variants, archetipes, substitution levels
ITs a absolute marvel to see my players come up with incredible creative characters totally different from anything anyone ever made
i don't like pathfinder tho

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The game has a Mistick Knight prestige class if you do.
You can also play Magus which is like a Fighter Sorcerer class.
You even get Hevy armor proficiency by the end of the game and it wont affect spell casting.

bladur's gate is 2nd edition D&D it was a complete shit

the adjective "bloated" user used is reffering to what system, genius?

>Remember how games like TOEE, Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM set the golden standard for tactical combat and were never repeated? Instead the genre crumbled into inferior nonsense to the point where wRPG 'renaissance' was falsified with high-profile RtWP releases

Most renaissance wrpgs are turn-based.

>damn I miss good strategy turn based rpgs

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Pirate both and buy them later if you like them.

3.E/3.5E isn't much better, unless you play at epic levels where you can actually see some kind of originality once in a while, not to mention that comparing TT play to vidya is beyond stupid since in TT I have a GM that can rebalance the inherent stupidity of the systems and pretend some build choices are good or work, you can't do that in vidya.
You can pretend that you can be the most special snowflake of all but the truth is, things like Codzillas absolutely shit on anything else and most people do not go beyond that, GM fiat is what makes things work DESPITE the atrociously bad core design.

It's not as stupid as Pathfinder though, a game where everything is against multiclassing and customization but still gives you "prestige" classes
Nobody in their right mind would pick EK in Pathfinder of all things.

isn't 2h fighter good

>unless you play at epic levels where you can actually see some kind of originality
dude, do you even Unearthed Arcana? PH 2? Miniatures Handbook? Complete Series, Races Series Climates Series? Every single prestige Class?
There is an absolute ocean of customization and originality at middle (1-9) levels. I don't think you properly know the system to talk like that

It's perfectly playable, people on Codex have been completing full playthroughs with it

Better than Pillars 2's implementation.

And yet it's among the best RPGs of the past decade.

Does the AI not shit itself?

A 2h fighter can do decent damage. A druid of equal level does similar damage in animal form, has an animal companion that does similar damage, and can summon more animals that each do similar damage too. Most other casters can do something similar too.

It's not that fighters are bad, it's that for some reason casters get spells/abilities to turn them into better fighters.

>There is an absolute ocean of customization and originality at middle (1-9) levels
D&D builds only start to truly come to fruition at around level 10-12, so no, unless again, you have a GM that makes it happen, and low level D&D is an absolutely miserable experience.
There's only two problems with the Turn Based mods.
>If you have a formation that makes characters too close to each other chances are they glitch and can't move until the one "blocking" the other moves around, good luck finding which is which, happens a lot with animal companions
>Usual pathing problems that don't mean much in RTwP mean a lot in TB, meaning you have to be more careful
Other than that it works great, mind you that playing in TB changes the experience a lot coming from RTwP, running away from fights for instance is VERY hard in TB but trivially easy in RTwP, some spells like pits are also a horrible idea in TB due to the absurdly long duration (don't use pits in TB, don't make that mistake).

You are a walking, talking mistake. Don't reply to me anymore.

>D&D builds only start to truly come to fruition at around level 10-12
My games hardly went after lvl 12 (the 5th feat), since the launch of 3.0
again you apparently don't know the many variants the books offer to you.
and if your low level D&D experience is a miserable, your GM is to blame. You can have unique lvl 6 (3rd feat) character with very nice stories, just look at the pre made modules
With each reply i'm getting more sure that you don't have enough experience in the system

I think one of the latest updates had a toggle that fixed the first issue

>again you apparently don't know the many variants the books offer to you.
I don't know just how much jank they ended up adding on top of the rest during the years, true, but I don't have good memories of 3.5E, even as someone who almost exclusively multiclassed as a Monk/Wizard/Rogue and occasionally dipped into a bunch of the prestige classes.
Then again, I'm really no D&D fan either so I don't have the interest to bother after so much time.
>if your low level D&D experience is a miserable, your GM is to blame
Low level D&D is miserable outside of your GM being bad or good, in fact only a very good GM can make low level D&D bearable at all, especialy when people want to multiclass.
But if you want to pretend your level 6 characters can do anything other than being mildly quirky around some lizardmen, sure, go ahead, I'd rather do something else.

And TT aside, in videogames it's even worse, because in games like NWN or BG your fancy Monk4/Wiz2 character is a completely different (And wildly useless) beast from TT.

well that sucks

ok so you don't actually have enough experience with 3rd, its fine, its not for everyone
and again, read the modules (and 5monster manuals + fiendish codex + monsers of faerun) to see what a low level can do. If you JUST want to make op builds that deal 100+damage each turn with the sole purpose of feeling great in the game and making it miserable for everyone around you, that is on you buddy, not on the game or its rules

Every tabletop rpg can be min/maxed to oblivion, even the dumbed down 5ed. One can just look at foruns for help with that. But that is not what the game is about, its about making good stories and unique characters. Something i have seen plenty in my almos 20 years of playing 3rd
Also, if you "almost exclusevily" played as monk/wizard/rogue its not surprising your experience was miserable. just by the BBA and the total PV and Skills i can see the massive problems that would cause

I also loves pillar 1 and 2 but in pathfinder you can makes op build making the game more fun
No craft sistem sucks btw

What did he mean by this?

Yeah, the understanding of aligments is messed up in that game. Usually puts you on either extreme or forces you into doing/saying something absolutely idiotic. Like trying to help a companion and you're given two choices: either be a psycho and kill everybody just because of an argument or kiss someone else's boots like a whimp.
I thought I could get through the game rejecting companions and buying customized ones but your character is also insufferable.

>If you JUST want to make op builds that deal 100+damage each turn with the sole purpose of feeling great
I don't care about that, most of the time I play as a cranky chaotic Wizard with Alzheimer that wakes up once in a blue moon to do something cool but causes party trouble and shenanigans most of the time, a dickass chaotic neutral Rogue or a fallen Monk.
I care very little about doing 120d6 damage rolls, what I care about is doing something else than a basic set of boring nondescript stuff which most classes can do, especially at low level.
I love many of the prestige classes too, Shadowdancers for instance are one of my favorite class design in RPGs (which is punctually completely fucked up in its videogame iteration), Acolyte of Chance was another prestige class I really, really liked as someone who loves chaotic characters, but again, the bulk of a class' identity in D&D is at higher levels, and this is exponentially worse in videogames for various reasons.

I played for decades too, at this point I have very little interest in low level stuff, especially D&D, which I never particularly liked, I'd rather play a long but satisfying Call of Chtulhu campaign, or even Munchkin really.

Had 0 problems staying lawful neutral throughout the game. Just be less retarded and you'll be fine.

I don't think the main quest choices are that bad, you actually have a few interesting choices all around like recruiting Tsanna or Vordakai if you play as an Evil aligned character, or try to be a double agent and fool both parties in a dispute for maximum personal gain, in that sense it's not half bad compared to most of the stuff made in a long while.
The problem I did find was with the companions as you say, not only because you have just two choices at the end of the day, but because ALL the companions' quests are built around licking their boots.
You can't support Valerie's choice of getting rid of the Shelyn's paladin (even though it does make sense given her character), you HAVE to play the lawful good part otherwise you outright fail the questline, Nok-Nok is the same, you can't tell Harrim to man the fuck up, stop sulking and do something else with his life otherwise you fail his quest, you can't get angry at Linzi even once and so on, the only companion quest that does kinda make sense is Ekun's.
>I thought I could get through the game rejecting companions and buying customized ones
You totally can despite the massive money sink it can be if you wait too much for a full party, the problem is that the game is not designed for those.
On one hand you lose on your OC companions' stories and MASSIVE fucking EXP. rewards, which makes no sense not to do, and on the other hand you also lose on characters to use in the Kingdom management since OCs have innate bloated stats and generics don't even work for most positions due to bugs.

i do'nt care about the videogames, they are all a bit fun but mediocre ok lets tank that

I think your "lack of identity" is more attuned because of your own choices of limited classes. as you already said so twice.
Or my players are blessed with immense creativity then, but that i think its more difficult to be real
Truly you at 9th you can make even more diferent styles and it goes more and more. But that is how every single game is buddy. With more levels you have more options for stats, levels, skills anything. Obviously it gets more unique
But, again, Unearthed ARcana, PH2, MH, and many other books give you oportunity to change many things at early stage. If you stayed longer for the"jank they ended up adding on top of the rest during the years" you would have known and you would agree with me i think.

Or you just don't like the game, its system and its making up points as we go. The books are there you can download it very easily and see for yourself, i'm not making stuff up
Also, PrestClass are amazing, but you understand that they get very OP powers at middle right? That is why they are designed to be lvl 5th or 10th starters

And different than you, i started more at middle-high levels, but the immense number of damage and shit went way over the top, i rather stay at 6-9lvl, max 12. And my players enjoy it

This. Even if you fuck it up by some miracle, just get the magic scroll that resets your alignment to its original position

>Glad I pirated this game Its a fucking mess
I downloaded the repack version and it doesn't work. Do you have any working link?