What went wrong?

You have your usual SPECIAL attribute points, and then a perk tree where you can buy a perk when you level up. Perks are locked down behind certain SPECIAL requirements and also often have level requirements too, and they contain stuff that was governed by skill points in earlier games (like lockpicking being a multi-tiered perk) and perks that are just like perks in earlier Fallouts.

Basically, they replaced the old, good system with a system that does the same stuff in a worse way. It doesn’t give you more freedom or anything, it sucks.

not to mention there is no level cap, so you can get every perk anyway

Gameplay was never the selling point of this series, the story and setting are what people like about it.
One of the things that hurt FO4 was the diy settlements that made the Commonwealth generic

fpbp

They tried too hard to craft a particular kind of main character when in reality no one plays Bethesda games for that kind of narrative. The main quest was hackneyed shit and the side content was shallow and felt unrewarding. The gunplay was an improvement but the weapon variety was underwhelming and better combat felt like it came at the expense of the RPG elements.

>no gun condition
this is a good thing

>They tried too hard to craft a particular kind of main character
This, I like to do a little rp when I play an RPG and the military background was kind of limiting.
I couldn't even go for shell shocked veteran cast back into hell just after reaching some level of normalcy because the dialogue options were so limited.

They didn't even do anything interesting with it like you could learn the history of the BoS and pretend you knew the OG Maxson.

I'm baffled they didn't keep reloading benches considering all the other crafting shit.

No
It makes the game easier, more appealing to cowadooty fuckers. Having to maintain things is fun when done right. And the truth is, new vegas did it right from the start.

>2019
>still no decent melee overhaul mods
I just want to be a badass samurai drifter, why are the animations so fucking SHIIIIIIT

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I gave a reason to loot weapons you already have.

>Having to maintain things is fun when done right. And the truth is, new vegas did it right from the start.

Except it's not "done right". Obsidian knew it's a shit mechanic but knew they couldn't outright remove it, so they made the player able to repair things to full without 100 repair and Jury Rigging to make it even less of a hassle.

Because bethesda doesn't want to acknowledge the very existence of new vegas. They know it's better, so they want to be ignorant about it.
New vegas took place in the west, like the previous fallout titles. It took as much inspiration from the originals as it did from fallout 3. New vegas related things are mentioned maybe twice in fallout 4, because bethesda is so sure that they can make a better fallout. But fallout 4 is forgotten, and fallout 76 is literally unplayable.

absolutely nothing. you guys are a bunch of whiny brats who go out of their way to find insignificant things to bitch and complain about.

They also added repair kits, that fallout 3 severely lacked.
New vegas handled weapon condition very well. Much better than just scrapping the feature all together like fallout 4 did.
Come to think of it, bethesda scrapped multiple things rather than improving them.

>so you can get every perk anyway
not realistically. on a complete run of the entire game, thoroughly exploring every location and completing every non-radiant mission, I think I was around level 82, and maxing out all perks requires level 270+ which is an immense amount of autism to reach.

>Obsidian knew it's a shit mechanic
then why did they keep it in? weapon condition is a theme of fallout and using really old and shit weapons

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Modern gaming is a fucking minefield and this mentality is why.

so they replaced leveling up skills with predetermined skill trees?

>he didn't abandon the game at level 142
gitgud

>not to mention there is no level cap, so you can get every perk anyway
you don't have to level up in 4

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>weapon condition is a theme of fallout

Then why didn't the original games have it?

Bethesda made it and not Obsidian. Next.

Are there any good mods that contribute to roleplaying or add crazy immersion shit?

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Pagliarulo

Androids are high scifi. Fallout is low scifi. Corny as fuck basing the whole plot on the Institute. Worst villain in franchise history. Worst storyline in franchise history. Otherwise a good game.

>What went wrong?

-First and foremost they eliminated any opportunity for roleplaying by introducing a voice-lined character with a confirmed backstory, name, and so forth. You're not your own unique or special character: you're either Nate or Nora.

-You, the player, have absolutely no equity, influence, nor do you ever face any meanginful interaction with the factions. You can never say 'no' to anyone, you can never negotiate properly with anyone, you can never ally or have the factions interact with each other, every is very shallow, and pre-determined, as opposed to fluid and crossing over. At no point does the Brotherhood of Steel or Railroad 'truly' acknowledge your position as leader of the Minutemen and work with your combined resources; everyone is just in a vacuum.

-The Institute is an awful villain: at no point do they bother to explain or try to justify what they're trying to do despite wanting to convince you to join them. Even when you're made 'leader' of the Institute you have no actual influence nor can you make any administrative desisions: you can't ask them to make more SuperMutants or call off the Synthetic Program. What's worse is, again, your character has no initiative: they either violently eject what's going on or mindlessly accept everything.

-Unlike in other Fallout games your stats will never have any baring on dialogue or how people treat you: all dialogue options are pre-determined and rely entirely on your Charisma to pass or fail. You can never intimidate someone with your strength, nor 'wow' people with your intelligence.

-The settlement and building system is 'interesting', but it's a clunky, never-going-to-be-fixed, half-baked, lacking in basic features, fucking mess. Structures are finicky about placement, populations are shamefully small, settlements can only handle a certain amount of 'complexity', and to truly utilize everything requires it's own build of stats.

The only problem with settlements is that the whole system was awful. It’s a pain to set objects right even with mods, and first person perspective is just terrible for this kind of job. Settlements were kind of pointless and settlement invasions were either trivial or just a fucking nuisance.

I do like there being a settlement system because I’m autistic but its implementation was really bad.

will we ever get new vegas 2 bros?

>you don't have to level up in 4
what kind of retard logic is this?
take your you and choke on it

Obviously not. Obsidian is not even the same as before and Bethesda pretends New Vegas was never a thing

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There are no skills. Perks replace skills entirely.

No and that's a good thing. Leave it alone instead of pissing on its quiet grave.

You could also max all skills in nv/3 and get all the good perks, if fallout 4 failed at one thing, it never got rid of garbage perks that do nothing interesting, nv/3 were full of those, the only fun ones were the perks that changed the gameplay a little, like the slowmo perk.

The painful thing about the diy settlement system is that if they had fleshed it out, worked out the bugs, dramatically expanded the buildings, decorations, and resources (as in not just CROPS, but setting up fishing stations & hunting stations), it would have been fucking perfect for what Fallout 76 'could' have been.

By that I mean imagine if the premise of Fallout 76 was "you, the player, have been released from Vault 76. You (and others) represent the best and brightest people America has to offer with the explicit purpose to REBUILD this once great nation" and then from there you're presented with a relatively empty West Virginia for you to rebuild anyway you so desire.
-Make Settlements, attract settlers, build 'focused' communities to supply complex supply lines with specific resources (water treating village, farming village, logging village, hunting village, large trading towns), and recruit specialized settlers to expand your building abilities and vendor options.
-Do quests for both yourself, but quests for the surviving/hiding factions to gain access to their unique builds.

And then keep the Multiplayer aspect for.. I dunno, massive PVP wars? Invasions? Be a raider? Maybe 'local'ish' multiplayer where you chill out with your friends like in minecraft?

Yeah, those newly manufactured gunrunner weapons sure should fall apart in ten magazines.

Fallout isn’t post apocalyptic. It’s post-post apocalyptic. There are working in factories now.

Doubly weird is that it's very much so a thing in 76, and then they did that half-assed Contraptions DLC that added limited, agonizingly slow ammo manufacturing.

This is a decent segway into another problem Bethesda seems to have with Fallout that I think is inherently fucking retarded and just blatantly wrong.

Bethesda wants to treat 'their' Fallout world as if the bombs dropped 20 years ago, but they want to keep using the story established after 200 years of Nuclear Holocaust living.
Fallout isn't Madmax. Fallout -as you've said- is a post-post apocalyptic world: there's established governments, kingdoms, people shouldn't be living in fucking shacks, raiders shouldn't have improvised equipment, there should be more tribals, some FUCKING TREES, and a startling diversity of primitive, developed, and advanced peoples making a living in this new world while they build new things.

Problem is settlements in 76 are a joke and much worse than the ones in 4 because they have to be even less resource intensive due to multiplayer. 76 is just conceptually retarded, I have no idea how they actually let that leave the drawing board because they actually decided to make a game based entirely on an extremely flawed and poorly designed mechanic from FO4.

Bethesda is just incredibly incompetent. I don’t think anyone could have imagined how bad it was despite how buggy their games were. I can’t really explain what sort of corporate structure could come up with such a failure of a game, I can only imagine they have a couple clueless incompetent boomers like Todd making the calls on everything and not actually taking any feedback or discouraging any to begin with.

I mean in NV you have real towns with some character to them like Goodsprings, Prim and Novac. Most of them are based in actual locations in Nevada and California.
4 doesn't really give the same feeling

Plenty of things. Especially it being a low effort game overall. The settlement system should have been completely absent, or limited to Sanctuary only, in my opinion. They used the idea of "build your own towns!" as an excuse to skimp out on creative ideas and effort. The building system is clunky and half assed, usually needing mods to fix the whole system. If you manage to create something amazing that looks nice on screenshots, it will still be filled with nameless filler NPCs, whos only function is to do settlement tasks and say the generic barks for the millionth time(only to you, since there is no intrasettler interaction). A thing I liked is that you could recruit some named NPCs for your settlements, but those are relatively few and you selemnts WILL have a majority generic settler NPC population. Lets also not forget that those settlers will leave half of your megasettlement a ghost town by default if you build something too complex for the brainlet Bethesda AI. No settlement will have an unique backstory, no quirks or personality of its own. The engine and lack of optimization continues to hold Bethesda games back, making high pop+complex construction settlemnts only a thing for screenshots. The ideology of modders will fix it has made them lazy over the years.

>Still uses the Eastern Brotherhood as a major faction
>Still uses super mutants as a major enemy type
>Still uses feral ghouls as a major enemy type
>Two (2) permanent settlements in the entire map, both of which are located close to each other in the center of Boston
>Cancerous building mechanic due to Mincecraft influences which is a major pillar of the game but is locked behind a bunch of specific perks, requiring you to develop your build around them to access the mechanic in full
>Glowing Sea is pure wasted potential
>Gunners take the place of Talon Company and are just as pathetic and shallow but three times as prevalent
>The dialogue in general
>The writing and plot is unimaginably shit and jarring. Bethesda has already shown they can do the setting justice in this regard with the Pitt and Point Lookout so there is no excuse for the regression here.
>The game quite literally forces quests, equipment and other things onto you whether you want them or not
>Lack of unique weapons (no the fucking rehashed enchantment from TES doesn't count)
It gets points for the gunplay, power armor and survival mode. Nothing else. Unironically still better than 3's base game though.

It's hilarious how they keep coming up with secret facilities with their own brand of FEV so they can keep putting in mutants.
Vault 87, the Institute...they probably some some shit in 76 too. It's like they passed out samples of FEV as if they were promotional vault-tec calendars.

At least Fallout 3 had skills and a silent protagonist.

I like the Eastern brotherhood but all your other points are valid. I think the worst thing is how lame the institute armor looks. How am I supposed to be afraid of somebody wearing that?!

>Fallout is low scifi
Incorrect, but you're still right about the Institute. Androids are stupid too.

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They turned the eastern brotherhood to shit with killing off BOTH Lyons and replacing them with that little shit.

>Choosing to only have 4 options for dialogue at the start with a voiced protag

>We "Knew" we needed a voice dialouge
>We "Knew" we needed to do it in order to tell the story

This choice GIMPED the entire game. For almost no reason other than "Other popular games only have 4 choices so lets do that" And it's easier to do than many other options. Everything was designed for you to have 3 options that say Yes and one saying No.
youtu.be/Bi51-wjcwp8
And they made sure you could skip everything fast because now with a Voice Protag, everything is now taking long ass times. And they worried it would make people bored. And because of THAT they didn't want any long "Lore Bombs" conversations were built to be quick and fast where pretty much nothing of substance could be made because they thought they're audience would be impatient. They wanted the dialogue to be smoother than other games but with their solution they essentially had to make every response a limp dicked Cuck "Yes" or "Maybe Later" because anything that would take more than a minute would require conversations to be more complicated and deep. This whole interview you can actually hear him trying to hard to justify the shitty decisions they did and realizes how bad his excuses are and that he's actually justifying the old way of doing things better than their new way. So he trys to transition hard to a new topic.

>120,000 lines of spoken dialogue
And not a single one is as good or as memorable as something that came from the previous games.

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Bethesda is under the impression that some things have to always be in Fallout. It's gotta have Nuka-Cola™ and the Brotherhood of Steel™ and Super Mutants™ and Vault-Tec™ and the Enclave™ yada yada because they're afraid to add anything new that has a major affect on the lore, and they should be because they'd probably fuck it up.

I think the most annoying thing about Bethesda's FEV is they keep thinking they need to have super-secret-science bases filled with barrels of the stuff or evil scientists experimenting with it to justify more SuperMutants.

Like, wasn't it established in Fallout Canon already that the entire WORLD is saturated in an airborne and waterborne 'naturalized' variant of the FEV that the original 'Master' and the American Government released post-bombs to help humanity and the various other organisms adapt and survive? And that the whole POINT of stealing vault-dwellers was because they weren't infected by the naturally occuring FEV, thus had no immunity, and so could be turned into ADVANCED SuperMutants using custom-FEV serum?

They could easily just have naturally occuring SuperMutants or FEV pools/pits/swamps or fucking SOMETHING.

Well, they added the institute and people hate it

All the slightly technical stuff got removed or dumbed down to hell. Even weapon modification, which was one of F4's most prominent selling points, essentially boils down to "strong automatic receiver" or "strong semi auto receiver", ie. there is a single (or two) max strength part for each weapon part slot instead of multiple endgame sidegrades.

Im replaying it now, and while the gunplay is really quite nice, I miss a lot of NV stuff, like craftable ammo, perks, skill points, etc. Nothing mods can't fix, sure, but still a bummer.

Makes sense. So what's your prediction for fallout? Bethesda goes on to make 5 more identical games with no creativity, and the epic worldbuilding in New Vegas remains dead?

Considering how many of them there are, I'd say at point it would be easier to give Super Mutants some method of reproduction even if it's asexual budding or some bullshit like that.

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They did forbid the devs of New Vegas from using Hollywood because they wanted to use it. So it's either that or Fallout New York, Fallout Philadelphia, Fallout Providence, or Fallout New Orleans

Oh wait forgot about Nashville or Atlanta

Locking core game features behind certain perks.
Horrible optimization. God awful washed out colors. "Pipe" weapons.
Also level scaling.

I actually thought the pipe weapons were pretty interesting, most of the east didn't restore industrial production so a lot of the random wastelanders would just have zip guns.
Maybe Eastern Virginia, the part with those naval base cities.

Sure, the wastelanders would have zip guns, but not the shit locked in vaults and safes since before the bombs dropped.

>-You, the player, have absolutely no equity, influence, nor do you ever face any meanginful interaction with the factions. You can never say 'no' to anyone, you can never negotiate properly with anyone, you can never ally or have the factions interact with each other, every is very shallow, and pre-determined, as opposed to fluid and crossing over. At no point does the Brotherhood of Steel or Railroad 'truly' acknowledge your position as leader of the Minutemen and work with your combined resources; everyone is just in a vacuum.
this. this truly bothered me. my very first run was combat build centered around being able to talk out of anything. so high charisma and then stacking on w/e weapon type was decent.

turns out speech is literally only useful for some extra caps. such bullshit.

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Why did you saved that? There is lot of inconsistences there

there is nothing interesting in virginia, trust me.
fallout needs to be taken back west. I still can't believe bethesda insisted on making fallout 76 take place in west virginia. I remember all the fun theories people had leading up to 76's announcement, people saying it was going to be new vegas all over again, saying it would take place in the west for sure. Instead we got an actually 100% broken mess of an online cash grab with no attempt on role playing or even story telling.
76 is the ultimate proof that shithesda cannot be trusted. I already don't give a shit about tes6, because i know they're going to fuck that up too.

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>no attempt on role playing or even story telling.
that's on their autistic fanbase who don't talk or interact with each other. the story and theme are actually good compared to 4 and it's... whatever the fuck that mess was.

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>autistic fanbase who don't talk or interact with each other
This is still partly bethesda's fault
Not only did they leave the game's fun entirely up to the player base, but the game itself is just broken and no press to talk
It's all just one big very very lazy mess

>And that the whole POINT of stealing vault-dwellers was because they weren't infected by the naturally occuring FEV
I'm pretty sure but the point was stealing people who weren't affected by radiation, but correct me if you got sources

>there is nothing interesting in virginia, trust me.
The Dominion Wasteland would be sexy as hell.

>What went wrong?
They tried to replicate Skyrim in the Fallout setting. They also spent far more development time perfecting the shooting gameplay than they did on the overarching plot.

As a result they ended up with Post-Apocalyptic Skyrim with good gunplay and shitty RPG mechanics. People noticed.

Obsidian didn't make it

virginia sucks
they've already had fallout 3 take place in DC, which is practically right on it. They need to move somwhere else and stop milking eastern america dry

Because they use Skyrim

The main story was stupid, the characters sucked and they did nothing interesting with the setting.

This. Also shit music and nothing matters. Perks don't matter. Enemies are put in retarded locations that make no sense. Everything feels like it's waiting for you to come by. Nothing of value or interest in any location because they don't want to hurt players feelings by missing out on special items. It's just killing ugly enemies with a worse art style in every regard of the previous games and getting random loot from the shitty legendary enemies. Every faction is shit and the companion system is so video gamey it kills an illusion that could be gained from the only characters with even a bit of decent writing in the game.

It's legitimately just a bad game. A real pile of shit.

because the melee weapons are hitscan, they dont exist in the game world/

>Because bethesda doesn't want to acknowledge the very existence of new vegas
I'm glad some writer managed to sneak Mr. House in a line said by Deacon, the companion. Fallout New Vegas had fallout 3 references scattered through, and fallout 4 has a shitton of them, I wonder why they didn't treat New Vegas the same way.

the rose-tinted glasses you never took off

I have nothing but pure hatred for Bethesda. They go out of their way to ruin my single player experience by nerfing perks like Mister Sandman and Robotics Expert, all while ignoring dozens of game breaking bugs and hundreds of glitches. They did the same shit in Skyrim when they patched out the Oghma Infinum. For no reason! They see people having fun, so they take away that fun. They're quick to do that, but leave every other bug in the game.
The last straw for me was that common, game breaking bug in Fallout 4 where Emogene doesn't appear in the room. So you can never finish the quest line and get the bobble head which counts towards an achievement. Therefore, you can't install mods to fix it. That's another thing; mods disable achievements. There's no logical reason for it. It's just there to piss you off. I didn't even buy 76, and from what hear I'm so fucking glad I didn't. I hate Bethesda- I hate everyone that works in the studio. I hope they all die in a fire along with every shill that defends them on here. Fuck Bethesda and fuck all of you.

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